Go Back   Android Forums > Android Community > The Lounge
The Lounge We're all friends here. Hang out, kick your feet up and talk about whatever the heck you want!

Get excited for the Samsung Galaxy S5! Find everything you need and discuss it in our Galaxy S5 Forum!

View Poll Results: 6÷2(1+2) = ?
9 94 54.34%
1 77 44.51%
7 2 1.16%
Voters: 173. You may not vote on this poll

Like Tree27Likes

test: Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
Old April 28th, 2011, 07:41 PM   #51 (permalink)
The PearlyMon
 
EarlyMon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: New Mexico, USA
Posts: 44,035
 
Device(s): LTEvo, 3vo, and Shift
Carrier: Sprint

Thanks: 41,696
Thanked 54,830 Times in 21,866 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by sonofaresiii View Post
Well I disagree with your disagreement! So there!

edit: to explain myself a little better, no, i'm not saying f(x) = 2*x. In fact, I'm saying that's the problem-- OTHER people are saying that, but it's not true. f(x) is a function, that is f of x (f is a function of x), meaning the variable f is applied to the variable x. In our equation, we would apply 2 to 3, which in effect is multiplying it... but it's not the same as saying f(x) = f*x (though isolated, those equations are redundant). The problem is that USUALLY creating a function simply means multiplying it, so we've been trained to think that 2(3) = 2*3. But it isn't.
Um. f(x) is literally function of x - and does not mean the variable f is applied to x.

How about functions of the form -

where the last sum is simply the first sum rewritten using the definitions ξn = n/T, and Δξ = (n + 1)/Tn/T = 1/T.
Quote:
f(x) is a function, that is f of x (f is a function of x), meaning the variable f is applied to the variable x.
No. In the above example, there is no variable f that is applied to variable x.

The f in f(x) is simply a placeholder - for the operations that are applied to x.

Quote:
we've been trained to think that 2(3) = 2*3. But it isn't.
We've been trained to think that way for a reason. Commutation - it comes from commutation notation and means 2*3.

Honest.

So, by direct evaluation, the equation must become 6/2*3 - as had been said before.

EarlyMon is online now  
Last edited by EarlyMon; April 28th, 2011 at 07:45 PM.
Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to EarlyMon For This Useful Post:
krouget (May 2nd, 2011)
sponsored links
Old April 28th, 2011, 07:48 PM   #52 (permalink)
From My Cold Dead Hands
 
330D's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: upstate NY
Posts: 2,863
 
Device(s): Googlerola Droid Maxx, Moto Spyder, HTC Knight retired, HTC Hero retired,
Carrier: Not Provided

Thanks: 507
Thanked 780 Times in 517 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by EarlyMon View Post
Um. f(x) is literally function of x - and does not mean the variable f is applied to x.

How about functions of the form -

where the last sum is simply the first sum rewritten using the definitions ξn = n/T, and Δξ = (n + 1)/Tn/T = 1/T.No. In the above example, there is no variable f that is applied to variable x.

The f in f(x) is simply a placeholder - for the operations that are applied to x.

We've been trained to think that way for a reason. Commutation - it comes from commutation notation and means 2*3.

Honest.

So, by direct evaluation, the equation must become 6/2*3 - as had been said before.


This post makes me realize how much I dislike math. (That is math, right?)
330D is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old April 28th, 2011, 07:58 PM   #53 (permalink)
The PearlyMon
 
EarlyMon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: New Mexico, USA
Posts: 44,035
 
Device(s): LTEvo, 3vo, and Shift
Carrier: Sprint

Thanks: 41,696
Thanked 54,830 Times in 21,866 Posts
Default

It's a common approximation(*) of the Fourier transform, used to estimate frequency components in time series data.

It was an Easter egg for Master Po, who may have missed implied time when I said rhythm.

(*)The even more common one is to use Euler's and just directly evaluate from there, but it was just easier to copy from wikipedia than spell out the eq'n. A great deal of what I've done and published started with that eq'n. (Stated for Po's benefit, just to beat him to that punch. )

Ok Bob - once again 1,1,1,2,__ or 1,1,2,1,3,1,4,__

I guess time is running out.
EarlyMon is online now  
Last edited by EarlyMon; April 28th, 2011 at 08:09 PM.
Reply With Quote
Old April 28th, 2011, 08:14 PM   #54 (permalink)
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: NYC
Posts: 495
 
Device(s): Droid X
Carrier: Not Provided

Thanks: 31
Thanked 48 Times in 45 Posts
alex.amp502
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by EarlyMon View Post
Um. f(x) is literally function of x - and does not mean the variable f is applied to x.

How about functions of the form -

where the last sum is simply the first sum rewritten using the definitions ξn = n/T, and Δξ = (n + 1)/Tn/T = 1/T.No. In the above example, there is no variable f that is applied to variable x.

The f in f(x) is simply a placeholder - for the operations that are applied to x.

We've been trained to think that way for a reason. Commutation - it comes from commutation notation and means 2*3.

Honest.

So, by direct evaluation, the equation must become 6/2*3 - as had been said before.

well, fine. :-p
sonofaresiii is offline  
Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to sonofaresiii For This Useful Post:
jroc (April 28th, 2011)
Old April 28th, 2011, 08:26 PM   #55 (permalink)
Senior Member
 
Stinky Stinky's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: In a Dumpster! :D
Posts: 3,751
 
Device(s): Huawei Ascend Y300 :D
Carrier: Not Provided

Thanks: 4,955
Thanked 1,388 Times in 1,039 Posts
Default

I GOT IT I GOT I GOT!! xD

I remeber now!!!

It is a quadratic sequence!

I should have known this! I was the only one in my class to get it out of every body!!!

Mr Lars was very proud of me!

It is comming back to me now!

T1 = ax
^2 + bx + c Okay???? You get that???

GOOD

NOW

T1 = 1(1)
^2 + 1(b) + c

but T1 = 1

SO

1 = 1 + b + c

b = - c

NOW

T5 = 1(2)^2 + 2b + c

but T5 = 2

therefore

2 = 4 + 2b + c

therefore

2b = -2 -c

b = -1 - c/2

OKAY now we try simultanous equations!!!

We know that:

b = -1 - c/2

AND

we know that:

b = -c

SO therfore

- c = - 1 - c/2 (that is c divided by 2)

Therefore

-2c = -2 - c

-c = -2

THERFORE

c = 2

NOW we go back to the beginning xP

1 = 1 + b+ c

THERFORE

b = -2

NOW we just do the rest

T6 = 1(6) squared -2 = 2


THE ANSWER IS

ONE
__________________
Out walking me Roach Coach ek se!

Brb in 1 000 years
Stinky Stinky is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old April 28th, 2011, 08:29 PM   #56 (permalink)
Over Macho Grande?
 
alostpacket's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: NY
Posts: 7,873
 
Device(s): GlassXE, MotoX, N5, N4, N7'12, GNex, N1, SGT10.1, Revue, Xoom, Eris, OG Droid
Carrier: TMO

Thanks: 4,582
Thanked 3,563 Times in 1,522 Posts
Default

42
alostpacket is offline  
Reply With Quote
The Following 4 Users Say Thank You to alostpacket For This Useful Post:
EarlyMon (April 28th, 2011), jroc (November 7th, 2011), SB13X (April 29th, 2011), Xyro (April 29th, 2011)
Old April 28th, 2011, 08:37 PM   #57 (permalink)
Over Macho Grande?
 
alostpacket's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: NY
Posts: 7,873
 
Device(s): GlassXE, MotoX, N5, N4, N7'12, GNex, N1, SGT10.1, Revue, Xoom, Eris, OG Droid
Carrier: TMO

Thanks: 4,582
Thanked 3,563 Times in 1,522 Posts
Default

It's funny how people used a mnemonic to justify an answer.

That's like saying Math is the way it is because I tied this string around my finger

Multiplication and division are equal im PEMDAS it's actually P E MD AS. It could have just as easily be written PEDMSA.

The only argument for the answer being 1 is if you interpret the 2 being a function of the parenthesis. Since it's genreally considered shorthand for multiplication and not a function the answer is 9. (Unless your talking computer science or a different type of math like calculus where x and * dont mean the same thing anymore). Basically what EarlyMon said.

Still, my answer is 42.
alostpacket is offline  
Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to alostpacket For This Useful Post:
Crude (April 29th, 2011)
Old April 28th, 2011, 08:47 PM   #58 (permalink)
Over Macho Grande?
 
alostpacket's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: NY
Posts: 7,873
 
Device(s): GlassXE, MotoX, N5, N4, N7'12, GNex, N1, SGT10.1, Revue, Xoom, Eris, OG Droid
Carrier: TMO

Thanks: 4,582
Thanked 3,563 Times in 1,522 Posts
Default

Also, here's the answer Google gave me

Quote:
If we claim to have fellowship with him and yet walk in the darkness, we lie and do not live out the truth. But if we walk in the light, as he is in.
alostpacket is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old April 28th, 2011, 09:01 PM   #59 (permalink)
Member
 
Gnomad's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Ohio
Posts: 129
 
Device(s): Samsung Fascinate
Carrier: Not Provided

Thanks: 8
Thanked 21 Times in 17 Posts
Default

I figured I better get my vote in the poll since the correct answer is down by three votes.
Gnomad is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old April 28th, 2011, 09:19 PM   #60 (permalink)
Over Macho Grande?
 
alostpacket's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: NY
Posts: 7,873
 
Device(s): GlassXE, MotoX, N5, N4, N7'12, GNex, N1, SGT10.1, Revue, Xoom, Eris, OG Droid
Carrier: TMO

Thanks: 4,582
Thanked 3,563 Times in 1,522 Posts
Default

Well if I write 6/2(1+2) in Java for Android I get:

Code:
6/2(1+2) 
Syntax error on token "2", * expected after this token.
So, that settles......something
alostpacket is offline  
Last edited by alostpacket; April 28th, 2011 at 09:23 PM.
Reply With Quote
sponsored links
Old April 28th, 2011, 09:47 PM   #61 (permalink)
Blame it on me
 
DaSchmarotzer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Québec, Canada
Posts: 3,087
 
Device(s):
Carrier: Not Provided

Thanks: 442
Thanked 1,558 Times in 783 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vihzel View Post

Calculations:

6÷2(1+2) =
6÷2(3) =
3*3 =
9

This is right.

6÷2(1+2) =
6÷2(3) =
6÷6 =
1

Wrong. To "see" it correctly, the equation should be written as (6/1)*(1/2)*((1+2)/1), which equals (6/1)*(1/2)*(3/1), which equals 9 no matter the order of the three "terms".

6÷2(1+2) =
6÷2+4 =
3+4 =
7

Now that's just stupid.
There you go. It's been said before, but I tried to express it differently.

PS: I like to riddle my friends with this. I start with the first statement and proceed from there.

________a = b________________(Premise)
_____a^2 = ab________________(multiply each side by a)
a^2 - b^2 = ab - b^2__________(subtract b^2 from each side)
(a+b)(a-b) = b(a-b)____________(factorization)
____(a+b) = b_________________(simplification)
_____b+b = b_________________(according to the premise)
______2b = b_________________(addition...)
DaSchmarotzer is offline  
Last edited by DaSchmarotzer; April 28th, 2011 at 10:00 PM.
Reply With Quote
Old April 28th, 2011, 10:03 PM   #62 (permalink)
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 218
 
Device(s): HTC Thunderbolt
Carrier: Not Provided

Thanks: 36
Thanked 32 Times in 26 Posts
Default

All I know is that the answer I selected will undoubtedly be the wrong answer.
Bomfy is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old April 28th, 2011, 10:08 PM   #63 (permalink)
The PearlyMon
 
EarlyMon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: New Mexico, USA
Posts: 44,035
 
Device(s): LTEvo, 3vo, and Shift
Carrier: Sprint

Thanks: 41,696
Thanked 54,830 Times in 21,866 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by DaSchmarotzer View Post
(a+b)(a-b) = b(a-b)____________(factorization)
____(a+b) = b_________________(simplification)
The simplification step required dividing both sides by zero.
EarlyMon is online now  
Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to EarlyMon For This Useful Post:
novox77 (April 28th, 2011)
Old April 28th, 2011, 11:05 PM   #64 (permalink)
Blame it on me
 
DaSchmarotzer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Québec, Canada
Posts: 3,087
 
Device(s):
Carrier: Not Provided

Thanks: 442
Thanked 1,558 Times in 783 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by EarlyMon View Post
The simplification step required dividing both sides by zero.
Of course, but you'd be surprised at the number of educated people who will be stumped. Maybe not the ones used to work specifically with Mathematics though.

For example, the CEO of a consulting engineering firm that I know didn't find it.
DaSchmarotzer is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old April 28th, 2011, 11:21 PM   #65 (permalink)
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 15
 
Device(s): T-Mobile G1, MyTouch 4G
Carrier: Not Provided

Thanks: 3
Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vihzel View Post
Welcome to one of the easiest algebraic equations in the world!... or is it? MUAHAHAHAHA!

Can you solve this pesky little problem while also giving damning evidence that the other 2 can not possibly work?

YOU MUST CHOOSE ONE AND ONLY ONE!

Calculations:

6÷2(1+2) =
6÷2(3) =
3*3 =
9

6÷2(1+2) =
6÷2(3) =
6÷6 =
1

6÷2(1+2) =
6÷2+4 =
3+4 =
7

ADDED: Those calculations are simply thought processes for each possible answer. I am aware that there may or may not be something missing that could help clarify, but I am leaving it up to you to figure it out.
My Answer is nine, using the order of operations:

1: Perform any calculations inside parentheses.
2: Perform all multiplications and divisions, working from left to right.
3: Perform all additions and subtractions, working from left to right.

And since parentheses means multiplication it is done after the division.
Benjaguy is offline  
Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to Benjaguy For This Useful Post:
apavolka (April 30th, 2011)
Old April 28th, 2011, 11:23 PM   #66 (permalink)
The PearlyMon
 
EarlyMon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: New Mexico, USA
Posts: 44,035
 
Device(s): LTEvo, 3vo, and Shift
Carrier: Sprint

Thanks: 41,696
Thanked 54,830 Times in 21,866 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by DaSchmarotzer View Post
Of course, but you'd be surprised at the number of educated people who will be stumped. Maybe not the ones used to work specifically with Mathematics though.

For example, the CEO of a consulting engineering firm that I know didn't find it.
And you didn't take the opportunity to show him that dividing by zero will double a number and is therefore perfectly valid?!?

Get on his payroll - you'll be set for life in the first month!
EarlyMon is online now  
Reply With Quote
Old April 29th, 2011, 12:33 AM   #67 (permalink)
Leeeroy Jennnkinnns!
 
novox77's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 3,968
 
Device(s): Evo 4G, 3D, LTE
Carrier: Not Provided

Thanks: 1,190
Thanked 3,268 Times in 1,410 Posts
Default

I answered '1.'

It was a Malcolm Gladwell "Blink" answer. I didn't ponder my decision at all. Doesn't make my answer correct, but it does prevent me from getting sucked into a self debate. Here's my logic:

We make the equation a bit more algebraic without changing the operators and parens:

c/2(a+b) where a=1, b=2, and c=6

If you assume c/2 comes after evaluating (a+b), you are essentially putting (a+b) in the numerator of your division:

c/2 * (a+b)/1 --> c(a+b)/2

So if the equation was written as c(a+b)/2 ((a+b) is in the numerator), your final answer is 9. But the equation was definitely not written in this way. So 9 is wrong.

As the original equation was written, (a+b) is clearly in the denominator because I proved above it can't be in the numerator without a drastic re-write of the equation. In other words, c/2(a+b) can only imply that (a+b) is in the denominator without re-writing the equation. Therefore, as the original equation was written, the answer is the following:

eval parens first: (a+b) = 3
3 is part of the denominator, so 6/2(3) = 6/6 = 1
__________________

The good thing about science is that it's true whether or not you believe in it. -Neil deGrasse Tyson

Help me out: Sign up with Dropbox and we both get 500MB extra space. Thanks!
novox77 is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old April 29th, 2011, 02:08 AM   #68 (permalink)
Over Macho Grande?
 
alostpacket's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: NY
Posts: 7,873
 
Device(s): GlassXE, MotoX, N5, N4, N7'12, GNex, N1, SGT10.1, Revue, Xoom, Eris, OG Droid
Carrier: TMO

Thanks: 4,582
Thanked 3,563 Times in 1,522 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by novox77 View Post


If you assume c/2 comes after evaluating (a+b), you are essentially putting (a+b) in the numerator of your division:
Yes

Quote:
Originally Posted by novox77 View Post

c/2 * (a+b)/1 --> c(a+b)/2
EDIT: quoted wrong part should have used this:
Quote:
c/2(a+b) can only imply that (a+b) is in the denominator without re-writing the equation.
As soon as you've done this part of your calculation you've assumed the order of operations incorrectly.



Think about it this way, 6 over 2 times 3. This is still written correctly, right?


6
__ (3) = 18/2 = 9
2


You would never multiply the (1+2) to the denominator, that would be like buying an iPhone.
alostpacket is offline  
Last edited by alostpacket; April 29th, 2011 at 08:59 AM.
Reply With Quote
Old April 29th, 2011, 03:18 AM   #69 (permalink)
Senior Member
 
adi19956's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Hampshire, UK
Posts: 772
 
Device(s): HTC Legend, Nexus 7, 16GB
Carrier: Not Provided

Thanks: 88
Thanked 68 Times in 61 Posts
Default

WolframAlpha says it's 9? it's 9. http://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=6%2F2%281%2B2%29
__________________
He who receives, should thank, he who gives, should be silent and if he sees no reason to give thanks, the fault lies in himself
adi19956 is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old April 29th, 2011, 08:04 AM   #70 (permalink)
Leeeroy Jennnkinnns!
 
novox77's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 3,968
 
Device(s): Evo 4G, 3D, LTE
Carrier: Not Provided

Thanks: 1,190
Thanked 3,268 Times in 1,410 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by alostpacket View Post
Yes



As soon as you've done this part of your calculation you've assumed the order of operations incorrectly.

Think about it this way, 6 over 2 times 3. This is still written correctly, right?


6
__ (3) = 18/2 = 9
2


You would never multiply the (1+2) to the denominator, that would be like buying an iPhone.
you totally misread what I posted. Cause the part you quoted and said was incorrect is exactly how you would arrive at "9."
novox77 is offline  
Reply With Quote
sponsored links
Old April 29th, 2011, 08:58 AM   #71 (permalink)
Over Macho Grande?
 
alostpacket's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: NY
Posts: 7,873
 
Device(s): GlassXE, MotoX, N5, N4, N7'12, GNex, N1, SGT10.1, Revue, Xoom, Eris, OG Droid
Carrier: TMO

Thanks: 4,582
Thanked 3,563 Times in 1,522 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by novox77 View Post
you totally misread what I posted. Cause the part you quoted and said was incorrect is exactly how you would arrive at "9."
Ah yer right sorry, but it was a mistake of quoting the wrong part of your post, not misreading what you said.

Your proof is still wrong though because it rests on the "because it was written this way, I can perform the order of operations this way"


This is what I should have put in the second quote:
Quote:
c/2(a+b) can only imply that (a+b) is in the denominator without re-writing the equation.
That's where you make an assumption and rewrite the equation yourself.

You're basically saying because there are parenthesis, you can do the multiplication of 2 * (a+b) before c/2 even though that's not how the order of operations work. After the parenthesis, you're supposed to go back to division/multiplication and left->right. x(y) is just another way of writing x*y, it doesnt change the rules
alostpacket is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old April 29th, 2011, 09:18 AM   #72 (permalink)
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Posts: 2,615
 
Device(s): Droid X1, Droid 1, RAZR, Rezound, Maxx HD
Carrier: Not Provided

Thanks: 4,170
Thanked 361 Times in 280 Posts
Default

The more I read this thread....the more it looks like its time for me to go back to school...lol.

But it is an interesting read. If I didnt post in here, this was gonna be one of my "subscribe to and just read" threads.

And where in the world is Vihzel!?!?!?
__________________
The ultimate measure of a man is not where he stands in moments of comfort and convenience, but where he stands at times of challenge and controversy.

MLK, Jr.
jroc is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old April 29th, 2011, 09:43 AM   #73 (permalink)
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: NYC
Posts: 495
 
Device(s): Droid X
Carrier: Not Provided

Thanks: 31
Thanked 48 Times in 45 Posts
alex.amp502
Default

I'm sticking with 1. Not because it's right, but because I don't like being wrong. What's that? You still say I'm wrong? LALALA I CAN'T HEAR YOU.

I will go invent a time machine and punch the Egyptians in the head until they re-write math to make me right.

How will I invent a time machine? Well, with my new-math that I invent, it'll be easy!
sonofaresiii is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old April 29th, 2011, 09:44 AM   #74 (permalink)
Leeeroy Jennnkinnns!
 
novox77's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 3,968
 
Device(s): Evo 4G, 3D, LTE
Carrier: Not Provided

Thanks: 1,190
Thanked 3,268 Times in 1,410 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by alostpacket View Post
You're basically saying because there are parenthesis, you can do the multiplication of 2 * (a+b) before c/2 even though that's not how the order of operations work. After the parenthesis, you're supposed to go back to division/multiplication and left->right. x(y) is just another way of writing x*y, it doesnt change the rules
Well there's debate on how order of operations work as it pertains to M and D. But I was trying to eliminate that debate entirely by focusing on the OP's statement in one of his posts:

Quote:
You have to make a decision simply based on the equation given in the title
And in the title, it was written as: 6÷2(1+2)

And my point was: there are two popular answers: 9 and 1, depending on whether (1+2) was considered to be part of the numerator or denominator of the division operation. We all agree that (1+2) has to be evaluated first, but as written, does it belong on the top or bottom of the fraction?

And my argument was that if it belongs on the numerator, you get 9. But if it was INTENDED to be part of the numerator, the equation would have been written as 6(1+2)÷2.

If it was INTENDED to be part of the denominator, the equation would look pretty much as it was originally written, with the (1+2) associated with the 2 in a multiplication operation.

So, yes, I AM saying that the 2 multiplies (1+2) first because, as written, the equation implies this MORE than it implies "treat division and multiplication equal and just go left to right."

BTW, I can easily argue against this viewpoint, but this justification satisfies me more.

-edit-
I re-read your post and see what your argument is. You think my numerator trick is not the same as (6÷2) * (1+2). But it is, because multiplication is associative and distributive.
novox77 is offline  
Last edited by novox77; April 29th, 2011 at 10:22 AM.
Reply With Quote
Old April 29th, 2011, 10:15 AM   #75 (permalink)
Destroying Balls Everyday
Thread Author (OP)
 
Vihzel's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Manhattan, NY
Posts: 5,369
 
Device(s): Galaxy Nexus
Carrier: Not Provided

Thanks: 190
Thanked 1,061 Times in 673 Posts
Default

Oh I'm here. I am just enjoying reading all of these fine posts.
Vihzel is offline  
Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to Vihzel For This Useful Post:
jroc (April 29th, 2011)
Old April 29th, 2011, 10:16 AM   #76 (permalink)
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 9,611
 
Device(s):
Carrier: Not Provided

Thanks: 1,697
Thanked 1,939 Times in 1,502 Posts
Default

whats the answer.. damn you!
dan330 is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old April 29th, 2011, 10:18 AM   #77 (permalink)
Leeeroy Jennnkinnns!
 
novox77's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 3,968
 
Device(s): Evo 4G, 3D, LTE
Carrier: Not Provided

Thanks: 1,190
Thanked 3,268 Times in 1,410 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vihzel View Post
Oh I'm here. I am just enjoying reading all of these fine posts.
It was a great thread, no doubt.

However, I personally like the problems where there actually is a clear-cut correct answer and yet all the bigshot PhDs of the world can't agree on a right answer. Such was the case for:

1) The Monty Hall problem

2) The plane on a treadmill runway problem
novox77 is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old April 29th, 2011, 10:20 AM   #78 (permalink)
Destroying Balls Everyday
Thread Author (OP)
 
Vihzel's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Manhattan, NY
Posts: 5,369
 
Device(s): Galaxy Nexus
Carrier: Not Provided

Thanks: 190
Thanked 1,061 Times in 673 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by dan330 View Post
whats the answer.. damn you!
The thing is... my answer is as good as anybody else's. I don't have like the FINAL ANSWER THAT MUST BE OBEYED!!!!!!!! lol

I personally believe it's 9 and that's the answer I would put on the math test to save my life. hehe

I interpret it as 6/2(1+2) is not the same as 6/[2(1+2)], so one answer would come up 9 and the other one as 1.

It's really amazing to see how even really intelligent people can argue for days on this and not come to an agreement on other equivalent problems to this.
Vihzel is offline  
Last edited by Vihzel; April 29th, 2011 at 10:22 AM.
Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to Vihzel For This Useful Post:
jroc (April 29th, 2011)
Old April 29th, 2011, 10:23 AM   #79 (permalink)
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 9,611
 
Device(s):
Carrier: Not Provided

Thanks: 1,697
Thanked 1,939 Times in 1,502 Posts
Default

so.. there is no scientifically "right/correct" answer???? there must!

math at this level is very exact...
dan330 is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old April 29th, 2011, 10:35 AM   #80 (permalink)
Leeeroy Jennnkinnns!
 
novox77's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 3,968
 
Device(s): Evo 4G, 3D, LTE
Carrier: Not Provided

Thanks: 1,190
Thanked 3,268 Times in 1,410 Posts
Default

In case no one has bothered to wiki this subject yet...
Order of operations - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

And the part of interest:


Gaps in the standard

There exist differing conventions concerning the unary operator − (usually read "minus"). In written or printed mathematics, the expression −3^2 is interpreted to mean −(3^2) = −9, but in some applications and programming languages, notably the application Microsoft Office Excel and the programming language bc, unary operators have a higher priority than binary operators, that is, the unary minus (negation) has higher precedence than exponentiation, so in those languages −3^2 will be interpreted as (−3)^2 = 9. [1]. In any case where there is a possibility that the notation might be misinterpreted, it is advisable to use brackets to clarify which interpretation is intended.
Similarly, care must be exercised when using the slash ('/') symbol. The string of characters "1/2x" is interpreted by the above conventions as (1/2)x. The contrary interpretation should be written explicitly as 1/(2x). Again, the use of brackets will clarify the meaning and should be used if there is any chance of misinterpretation.

The takeaways are highlighted.

RED: neither 9 or 1 is correct or incorrect. The person posing the problem (not you Vihzel) is WRONG for not being explicit.

GREEN: if there is the possibility of ambiguity of INTENT, use parentheses!


novox77 is offline  
Last edited by novox77; April 29th, 2011 at 11:11 AM. Reason: fixed the loss of superscripts representing exponents. carets added.
Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to novox77 For This Useful Post:
Ichapp (April 30th, 2011)
sponsored links
Old April 29th, 2011, 10:51 AM   #81 (permalink)
Over Macho Grande?
 
alostpacket's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: NY
Posts: 7,873
 
Device(s): GlassXE, MotoX, N5, N4, N7'12, GNex, N1, SGT10.1, Revue, Xoom, Eris, OG Droid
Carrier: TMO

Thanks: 4,582
Thanked 3,563 Times in 1,522 Posts
Default

So the Android compiler/Java was right
Code:
6/2(1+2)  
Syntax error on token "2", * expected after this token.
heh
alostpacket is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old April 29th, 2011, 11:23 AM   #82 (permalink)
The PearlyMon
 
EarlyMon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: New Mexico, USA
Posts: 44,035
 
Device(s): LTEvo, 3vo, and Shift
Carrier: Sprint

Thanks: 41,696
Thanked 54,830 Times in 21,866 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Maxey View Post
when should I hand out the answer?

CLUE: Horology, think Horology
I guess we're ready, people have shied away.

Uncle.
EarlyMon is online now  
Reply With Quote
Old April 29th, 2011, 11:34 AM   #83 (permalink)
Leeeroy Jennnkinnns!
 
novox77's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 3,968
 
Device(s): Evo 4G, 3D, LTE
Carrier: Not Provided

Thanks: 1,190
Thanked 3,268 Times in 1,410 Posts
Default

Bob's sequence is how the second, minute, hour hands cross the numbers 1-12 on a clock.

Again a "Blink" answer. I haven't had time to even think if that makes sense or not. Gotta run to the doc's office. be back in a few hours with some more thought on it.
novox77 is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old April 29th, 2011, 11:54 AM   #84 (permalink)
The PearlyMon
 
EarlyMon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: New Mexico, USA
Posts: 44,035
 
Device(s): LTEvo, 3vo, and Shift
Carrier: Sprint

Thanks: 41,696
Thanked 54,830 Times in 21,866 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Maxey View Post
No soup for you!

Clue #2: 1, 1, 2, 1, 3, 1, 4, . . . Next number and why. Do not think of it as a math problem; it is a sequence, so what is the next number and why?

Bob
Quote:
Originally Posted by novox77 View Post
Bob's sequence is how the second, minute, hour hands cross the numbers 1-12 on a clock.
Sure?

My understanding was that the same number was next for both sequences, for the same reason.

I based my answer on a cycle I thought I saw.
EarlyMon is online now  
Reply With Quote
Old April 29th, 2011, 12:01 PM   #85 (permalink)
Member
 
apavolka's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Flagstaff, AZ
Posts: 491
 
Device(s): Nexus 7, Galaxy Nexus, LG Ally, Droid X
Carrier: Verizon

Thanks: 84
Thanked 38 Times in 35 Posts
apavolka
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rlad78 View Post
Wrong




Anyway, the answer is 1.

First off, we must follow PEMDAS

Parenthesis
Exponentials
Multiplication
Division
Addition
Subtraction

Therefore, we start out with the parenthesis

6÷2(2+1)

(2+1) = 3

6÷2(3)

Then multiplication

2(3) = 6

6÷6

Then division

1


Simple as that lol.
multiplication AND division from left to right. 9
__________________
Just call me Andrew

Droid Eris>Droid X>HTC Rezound>LG Ally>Galaxy Nexus
Acer A500>Nexus 7
apavolka is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old April 29th, 2011, 12:13 PM   #86 (permalink)
New Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 1
 
Device(s):
Carrier: Not Provided

Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Default

@BobMaxley The bell tolls. 15min single or thirty min single
Knifethrower is offline  
Last edited by Knifethrower; April 29th, 2011 at 12:16 PM.
Reply With Quote
Old April 29th, 2011, 12:13 PM   #87 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: In exile
Posts: 1,716
 
Device(s):
Carrier: Not Provided

Thanks: 177
Thanked 1,255 Times in 484 Posts
Default

LOL. 2 pages over this?

That answer is 9, could not be anything else. Regardless of how you read it.

I guess you want me to prove it right?

Ok, easy.
6/2 (1+2)= 6/2 is what you do with them. (1+2) is what they are, so....

You have to make a dog house, you have 3 (1 pine +2 fir), six foot long, boards to do it with. Plans say your dog house must be 2 feet tall. The boards are exactly 6 foot long and you must cut them at 2 feet. (6/2=3)

How many boards do you have after you finished cutting them?

1 six foot long board cut at every 2 feet, is exactly 3 boards

You have 3 six foot long boards, after you cut them all you have 9 exactly equal boards. 3x3=9

You can not take 2 feet out of 3 boards equally, which is what the multiplication is telling you, until you know the actually feet of the boards,which is what the division is telling you. The parenthesis make it clear what is the object and what is the operation. Because the operation tells you what to do with the object.

All you have to do is look at it as real things, not just numbers.
RiverOfIce is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old April 29th, 2011, 01:50 PM   #88 (permalink)
Blame it on me
 
DaSchmarotzer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Québec, Canada
Posts: 3,087
 
Device(s):
Carrier: Not Provided

Thanks: 442
Thanked 1,558 Times in 783 Posts
Default

I still think my explanation is less confusing.

6÷2(1+2)

Let's just add brackets to "clarify". I am not changing any operator or priority by doing so.

(6)÷(2)(1+2)

And since a division is in fact a multiplication of the inverse:

(6)(1/2)(1+2)

And that's 9 no matter the order of the terms.
DaSchmarotzer is offline  
Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to DaSchmarotzer For This Useful Post:
EarlyMon (April 29th, 2011), novox77 (April 29th, 2011)
Old April 29th, 2011, 01:51 PM   #89 (permalink)
Leeeroy Jennnkinnns!
 
novox77's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 3,968
 
Device(s): Evo 4G, 3D, LTE
Carrier: Not Provided

Thanks: 1,190
Thanked 3,268 Times in 1,410 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by EarlyMon View Post
Sure?

My understanding was that the same number was next for both sequences, for the same reason.

I based my answer on a cycle I thought I saw.
no i was not sure. and now that i think about it, i can't get it to fit my hypothesis, so never mind
novox77 is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old April 29th, 2011, 01:53 PM   #90 (permalink)
Leeeroy Jennnkinnns!
 
novox77's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 3,968
 
Device(s): Evo 4G, 3D, LTE
Carrier: Not Provided

Thanks: 1,190
Thanked 3,268 Times in 1,410 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by DaSchmarotzer View Post
I still think my explanation is less confusing.

6÷2(1+2)

Let's just add brackets to "clarify". I am not changing any operator or priority by doing so.

(6)÷(2)(1+2)

And since a division is in fact a multiplication of the inverse:

(6)(1/2)(1+2)

And that's 9 no matter the order of the terms.

I like this justification. It is simple and very elegant using division as multiplication of inverse. well played
novox77 is offline  
Reply With Quote
sponsored links
Old April 29th, 2011, 02:06 PM   #91 (permalink)
Senior Member
 
Usta's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: The Netherlands
Posts: 2,586
 
Device(s): SGS II I9100
Carrier: Not Provided

Thanks: 127
Thanked 1,337 Times in 331 Posts
Default

Allow me to take another stance...
If 6÷2(1+2)
Then (6)÷(2)(1+2)
So (6)(1)/(2)(1+2), because 6 is not divided by 2, but by 2(1+2) instead. Here the answer is 1.

My point is both 9 and 1 can be regarded as answers depending on what math rules you apply (left to right or Multiplication over Division or a combination of both).
Usta is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old April 29th, 2011, 02:08 PM   #92 (permalink)
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 9,611
 
Device(s):
Carrier: Not Provided

Thanks: 1,697
Thanked 1,939 Times in 1,502 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by DaSchmarotzer View Post
I still think my explanation is less confusing.

6÷2(1+2)

Let's just add brackets to "clarify". I am not changing any operator or priority by doing so.

(6)÷(2)(1+2)

And since a division is in fact a multiplication of the inverse:

(6)(1/2)(1+2)

And that's 9 no matter the order of the terms.

I see what you are trying to say...

but because the operator of division was used in that location... that it is understood that it is also used to separates that equation. like so...
(6) / ( 2(1=2))
or
(6)
______
(2(1+2))


if the equation was ment to mean your interpretation..it would read like this
6(1+2) / 2 =
this would not doubt = 9
dan330 is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old April 29th, 2011, 02:16 PM   #93 (permalink)
The PearlyMon
 
EarlyMon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: New Mexico, USA
Posts: 44,035
 
Device(s): LTEvo, 3vo, and Shift
Carrier: Sprint

Thanks: 41,696
Thanked 54,830 Times in 21,866 Posts
Default

A*B*C = A*C*B

It's not operator location that implies precedence - it's only operator type and parens that set that.

Probably the only reason the confusion ever existed is because at some point around 20 years ago compilers popularly ended up whenever there was code like this and evaluating multiplications first, then divisions - leading to computation tools that enforced the thinking that leads to the wrong conclusion.

6
--------
2(1+2)

and

6(1+2)
--------
2

are both correctly hand-written notations of two different problems.

6/2(1+2) is machine-form (the typewriter) notation - and so only the conservative and strict rules may apply, to free from compiler confusions.

A * B * C = A * C * B
A / B * C = A * C / B

Therefore = 9.
EarlyMon is online now  
Reply With Quote
The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to EarlyMon For This Useful Post:
DaSchmarotzer (April 29th, 2011), Ichapp (April 30th, 2011), krouget (May 2nd, 2011)
Old April 29th, 2011, 02:25 PM   #94 (permalink)
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 9,611
 
Device(s):
Carrier: Not Provided

Thanks: 1,697
Thanked 1,939 Times in 1,502 Posts
Default

but the way it is represented... there is an implied reason for the location....

so there is an implied () around the first part = (6) ..
and an implied () around the second part = (2(1+2))..

you can not change what is inside or outside ().

NOTE: that is my interpretation of "implied"... i can be wrong.
is there an expert / professor here that can state the facts?
dan330 is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old April 29th, 2011, 02:26 PM   #95 (permalink)
Hiding behind a mystery
 
Roze's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Where the Sakura grows
Posts: 9,847
 
Device(s): Moto Atrix [lovin'] Nexus One [Lost] LG Vu [Lost]
Carrier: Not Provided

Thanks: 809
Thanked 2,192 Times in 1,489 Posts
Default

...dear lord of the butterflies...the answers have gotten much more confusing >_>;;; I think I got confused when letters started appearing in the equations.
__________________
Sign up with Dropbox using my referral and get an additional 1/2GB on top of the 2GB you get for signing up http://db.tt/YbULMZX

Many thanks,
Roze
Roze is offline  
Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to Roze For This Useful Post:
jroc (April 29th, 2011)
Old April 29th, 2011, 02:29 PM   #96 (permalink)
The PearlyMon
 
EarlyMon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: New Mexico, USA
Posts: 44,035
 
Device(s): LTEvo, 3vo, and Shift
Carrier: Sprint

Thanks: 41,696
Thanked 54,830 Times in 21,866 Posts
Default

Well, if you don't find me expert enough (I'm peer-reviewed published in higher math for signal processing, nuclear reactor stuff, hydrodynamics, and radar among other things, and have lectured on and taught related stuff at the post-grad level), or DaS, another cool guy in the science biz - then just use the wiki info that novox 77 kindly copied:

Similarly, care must be exercised when using the slash ('/') symbol. The string of characters "1/2x" is interpreted by the above conventions as (1/2)x. The contrary interpretation should be written explicitly as 1/(2x).

Substitute (1+2) for x and it's case closed.
EarlyMon is online now  
Last edited by EarlyMon; April 29th, 2011 at 02:33 PM.
Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to EarlyMon For This Useful Post:
alostpacket (April 29th, 2011), dan330 (April 29th, 2011)
Old April 29th, 2011, 02:36 PM   #97 (permalink)
Blame it on me
 
DaSchmarotzer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Québec, Canada
Posts: 3,087
 
Device(s):
Carrier: Not Provided

Thanks: 442
Thanked 1,558 Times in 783 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by dan330 View Post
but the way it is represented... there is an implied reason for the location....

so there is an implied () around the first part = (6) ..
and an implied () around the second part = (2(1+2))..

you can not change what is inside or outside ().

NOTE: that is my interpretation of "implied"... i can be wrong.
is there an expert / professor here that can state the facts?
There is not such thing as "implied" when it comes to mathematics, since it would change the result. Rigor is important in sciences for that precise reason. Also, I consider EarlyMon to be an expert. Well, I also consider myself an expert for many things but that's a whole different story.

Also, both Mathematica (it's the same as Wolfram Alpha) and Maple say 9. Computers can't assume stuff (unless it's coded in ). If you ever start programming (maybe you do), you will truly understand what I mean by that.

PS: Roze, what a disappointment.

EDIT: Wow, I wrote that before EarlyMon had posted again.

EDIT2: Note to self: Using a lot of smiley faces sure doesn't help my credibility.
DaSchmarotzer is offline  
Last edited by DaSchmarotzer; April 29th, 2011 at 02:39 PM.
Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to DaSchmarotzer For This Useful Post:
dan330 (April 29th, 2011), krouget (May 2nd, 2011)
Old April 29th, 2011, 02:37 PM   #98 (permalink)
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 9,611
 
Device(s):
Carrier: Not Provided

Thanks: 1,697
Thanked 1,939 Times in 1,502 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by EarlyMon View Post
Well, if you don't find me expert enough (I'm peer-reviewed published in higher math for signal processing, nuclear reactor stuff, hydrodynamics, and radar among other things, and have lectured on and taught related stuff at the post-grad level), or DaS, another cool guy in the science biz - then just use the wiki info that novox 77 kindly copied:

Similarly, care must be exercised when using the slash ('/') symbol. The string of characters "1/2x" is interpreted by the above conventions as (1/2)x. The contrary interpretation should be written explicitly as 1/(2x).

Substitute (1+2) for x and it's case closed.

ok.. i aint no expert. so i will bow to expert interpretation....

there is no implied () and
if in doubt...
left to right ...

x = 9
dan330 is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old April 29th, 2011, 02:55 PM   #99 (permalink)
The PearlyMon
 
EarlyMon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: New Mexico, USA
Posts: 44,035
 
Device(s): LTEvo, 3vo, and Shift
Carrier: Sprint

Thanks: 41,696
Thanked 54,830 Times in 21,866 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by DaSchmarotzer View Post
EDIT: Wow, I wrote that before EarlyMon had posted again.
My reply was turning into another EarlyMon War+Peace special , so I deleted it, hoping you might post the clear path.

Glad I waited!!!

Quote:
EDIT2: Note to self: Using a lot of smiley faces sure doesn't help my credibility.
Doesn't hurt it any.

Often, information has to be expressed in multiple ways before clarity occurs.

This is true at all times and at all levels.

I once spent a decade solving a single equation - final proof took 30 pages of trig. After lecturing on the results and implications, and engaging in 5 years of feedback, I found while sitting in an airport, pretty smug over the day's lecture, that by considering all arguments for over a decade that the entire matter reduced to a simple progression of merely 4 clear and simple equations.

Illustrating for me for all time the positive need and positive benefit for us all to argue our way through things - you just never can be sure until the process completes how things might end up.

One of the reasons I like the people here.

Multiple people came to the same conclusion, all for the right reason.
EarlyMon is online now  
Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to EarlyMon For This Useful Post:
jroc (April 29th, 2011)
Old April 29th, 2011, 02:56 PM   #100 (permalink)
Over Macho Grande?
 
alostpacket's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: NY
Posts: 7,873
 
Device(s): GlassXE, MotoX, N5, N4, N7'12, GNex, N1, SGT10.1, Revue, Xoom, Eris, OG Droid
Carrier: TMO

Thanks: 4,582
Thanked 3,563 Times in 1,522 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by dan330 View Post
but the way it is represented... there is an implied reason for the location....

so there is an implied () around the first part = (6) ..
and an implied () around the second part = (2(1+2))..

you can not change what is inside or outside ().

NOTE: that is my interpretation of "implied"... i can be wrong.
is there an expert / professor here that can state the facts?

I'm no professor, but this is what I think it comes down to: To change the order of operations around the adition part (1+2) you need to add a parenthesis to make that go first, we all agree there.

But it shouldn't (and doesn't in my mind) make any sense that I should have to infer that a number that is near a parenthesis should have it's order of operation changed too. The parenthesis should change only what's inside it, with the innermost being evaluated first.

Basically some other problems to illustrate:

we clearly know that 6 * (1+2) = 18

And that 6 * 1 + 2 = 8

And that 6 / (2(1+2)) = 1 <- this is clear and obvious

^ So how is it we can infer 6 / (2(1+2)) from 6/2(1+2) ?

Unless there's some clear exception to the order of operations rule, we should not make assumtions that require additional parenthesis (imo)

Though my own argument can be used against me here too because the opposing argument could be how can you infer (6/2) * (1+2) ?

IMO,the reason you can infer the second (6/2) * (1+2) is because 6/2 doesn't need parenthesis normally, as it would natually come first in the order of operation.

6/2*3 is certainly clear enough I think. Once the parenthesis have been evaluated, they shouldn't affect the rest of the equation.



Also, I think It's pretty clear that:

EarlyMon/Rose(dan330+usta)=nova777 (imo)

And that's my final proof. Irrefutable! Just be sure to evaluate the (imo) first.
alostpacket is offline  
Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to alostpacket For This Useful Post:
jroc (April 29th, 2011)
Reply


Go Back   Android Forums > Android Community > The Lounge
Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 09:24 PM.
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.