robomo

"this year will be the year of the Linux Desktop!"

How common that's been said year in year out, decade after decade.

Unfortunately, Microsoft/Apple got there first to mass market years before Linux did.

The mobile platform however, is still in it's infancy. Tablets and smart phones are still a relatively new thing. The first HUGE splash came from RIM's Blackberry and Apple's iPhone, and Android is relatively recent - just the past few years.

However, Android's adoption compared to the other, closed source vendors is huge now:
http://techleash.com/2011/10/android-ios-controls-71-us-smartphones-market-share-report/



It's apparent Android is becoming the dominant player in the mobile market, and this next year will see a strong attack on the tablet and even netbook markets.

I think 2012 is the year of Linux in the mobile market - the tipping point where Apple, RIM and Microsoft find Android/Linux as dominant to stay.

Here's to a new year and Android Dominance!

Last edited by robomo; January 4th, 2012 at 01:48 AM.

saptech

Linux has been 'the year of the desktop' for me since around 2005...I use it almost exclusively. I do need Windows for work related purposes but Linux is my main OS at home.

Besides, its free and much much better than Windows. Linux shortcomings have to be overlooked since it's free. Why would Windows have shortcomings that we pay for?

Just my thoughts!

Bob Maxey

What shortcommings?

mrqs

so if i give you a pint of beer that i have also pissed in, you're going to overlook that shortcoming because it's free?

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Shane2943

Totally different argument. Your analogy suggests that you started with something good, then included something bad (piss) on purpose, then gave the unsatisfactory product away. Linux however, is more like someone home brewing some of their own beer, and giving that away, as opposed to buying a big label beer.

Apples to oranges.

And Linux does have shortcomings. Plenty of them. But so does MS and OS X. I run Linux almost exclusively at home, but my laptop does have Windows 7 setup in dual boot (although I VERY rarely boot to it) with OpenSUSE 12.1 being my primary OS. Things I would need to boot to Windows for include proprietary hardware support (such as flashing my Samsung Droid Charge as Odin doesn't run in Linux) and also proprietary software support (programs that only run in Windows and either poorly under Wine or not at all...such as EasyWorship or Google Sketchup).

I used to be a huge Linux fanboy, but now, I'm a "use the right tool for the job" guy. There is a time and place and purpose for Linux, Windows and OS X, regardless of the reasoning (marketing, corporate deals, money, etc).

That being said, I would love for Linux to take more of the market share from the other two. Do I want it to replace the other two? No. But competition is a good thing and the more boxes out there running Linux, the more support it will have, which is a good thing. I do absolutely talk up Linux to friends and people I meet because for a general purpose desktop OS, you can't beat it. Secure, fast, stable, current, and free. That being said, if I'm going to suggest Linux to someone, I always ask them specifically what they use their machine for. If they have some special program that they have to have and it only runs in Windows and has no Linux counterpart, then Linux is not for them. Most average users don't want to mess with dual booting or VMs. Use the right tool for the job.

Last edited by Shane2943; January 4th, 2012 at 09:26 AM.

mrqs

fair point - but if the home brew tastes like piss regardless of intention, are you going to overlook that shortcoming because you got it for free?

btw. i wasn't suggesting linux to be bad in anyway; i was just protesting against the general ideology of giving gratis products a free pass on quality control

EarlyMon

I've yet to see quality issues in Linux that are any worse or different than in Windows or OS X, and like those two, Linux quality issues are addressed with updates.

Linux shortcomings are in its feature set for many users. And reduced features - or a requirement to learn more and configure more to get things working or get more features - are shortcomings that I certainly forgive because it's free.

I think shortcomings -> quality issue is an assumption made, not a statement made.

mrqs

just in case any of that was in reply to me, i'd like to reiterate that it wasn't my intention to imply the presence or (un-)importance of any shortcomings in linux, just that i'm not willing to ignore any shortcomings in any product, regardless of price


anyway...
i'd say the term shortcoming encompasses quality issues as well as missing features
it's a quality issue if your beer has piss in it and it's a missing feature if your beer isn't carbonated - i'd call both of them shortcomings

i think the biggest issue with any of those three operating systems (windows, linux, os x) for any given user (nerdy exceptions excluded - i'm talking generally) is that the user is accustomed to one of them and will hence find the other two less intuitive and that's the biggest problem linux has always had - people got used to the microsoft way of doing things (me included) and are contempt with the way their os works, regardless of whether or not it's any better than the alternative(s)

Sulfur

No, it's more like someone made a worse copy of [one of] the best beers, and gave/gives it and the recipe away with a far more restrictive license than variants of what it copied now have, and usually with a giant cup of rhetoric about open source and somehow implying the GPL gives you "freedom".

Did I say like? I meant to say that is exactly what happened. Well, if you replace beers with OS.

Shane2943

Nope. I'm gonna switch beers until I find one I like. And if I don't, then I'll buy some major label beer until the home brewers start brewing better beer. There's good free beer out there, and then there's not-so-good free beer. All depends on what your taste is, and what you're willing to put up with as a trade off.

Understood, and it's a fair point. Linux has gotten a LOT better in recent years in terms of desktop usability and quality. It's not perfect, and will never be, but right now, it is a perfectly viable and usable alternative to the proprietary OS's out there for the average and advanced users.

Shane2943

I forgot to include the recipe. You're definitely right on that one.

And I'm assuming you're speaking of the "older giants of Linux" as being the "best beers" (Debian, Redhat, Slackware, etc), and the worse copies being their highly marketed derivatives (Ubuntu, SUSE, etc)?

mrqs

that's not overlooking the shortcoming; in fact that's the complete opposite of it

i agree

Sulfur

I meant Unix, specifically.

Shane2943

True indeed. I do not deny this. Just stating that, at least with Linux being free (mostly), one doesn't have to overlook many of the shortcomings, one can simply try several different variants until he finds the one he likes and can be happy with. There are, of course, some major shortcomings that effect Linux as a whole, rather than individual distros, which I've already stated (proprietary hardware/software, etc).

Nothing in life is free. One will either invest money, effort, or time (or all 3 and various amounts).

Shane2943

Ah. I see your point now. My apologies.

9to5cynic

Isn't every year the year of the linux desktop? :P

But, you go the computer section of Barnes and Noble, and you can find dozens of books on linux. Ubuntu and fedora books come to mind. Probably suse as well.... We'll see won't we..?

saptech

I didn't mean overlook it in that type of situation. I mean since it's free, why would you gripe about the shortcomings as much.

And I sure would hate to have to pay for the beer that you pissed in, that would really piss me off!

Most linux distros are created by people who's doing it out of the kindness of their heart, I think, and not getting paid or very little pay.

SUroot

That's still not the same argument. Linux doesn't taste of piss

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Danny_Boy82

I would consider my self a very average user, and I have never messed with Linux, but recently I have been fliriting with the idea of putting Linux on my desktop; most likly dual boot. I almost exclusively use my PC for gaming, and while I admit I do not know the pros/cons of Linux, I would like to learn the OS, and maybe by default a little more about OS's in general.

I guess my point or rather question is, and please forgive if this is a little OT or should be directed else where, would there be a prefered version for beginers? Could I run games, specifically World of Warcraft, off of it?

Maybe point me in the direction to a good source of info.

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mrqs

i wouldn't know about running games, but ubuntu is probably the most mainstream linux distro

Shane2943

The question I have is, other than learning the OS, why do you want Linux? It's not a trick question. Here are some upsides and downsides to running Linux:

Upsides:
-Stable
-Virus-free and no AV software required
-Spyware-free
-Ad-ware free
-Most distros include most all pieces of software you would need out of the box (office suite, web browser, chat clients, email clients, music/video players, text tools, utilities, drivers, etc)
-The software the distro does not include is usually free and easy to obtain
-constant and fairly frequent updates, especially for the major distros
-tons and tons and tons and tons and thousands of tons of support can be found for most distros online via chat and forums filled with nerds that live for not much else than to be nerds
-lots of choice out there - tons of distros, tons of software
-central software management for most distros - makes installing/removing and updating software a breeze because you don't have to go to 30 different websites to download software. It's all managed in one place, from one package management system.

Downsides:
-steeper learning curve to do things that are not "right out of the box" - even for user friendly distros like Ubuntu (don't let this scare you, though. If you want to learn, you can)
-lack of proprietary software support - software providers that are not open source tend not to release Linux versions of their software, even if their software is freeware (Google SketchUp and iTunes are great examples). There are some proprietary software that runs natively in Linux though and what doesn't can be tried with the Windows emulator "Wine." Wine is hit or miss though. Not all Windows software runs under it, and some software does but with bugs. There are open source software alternatives for most major pieces of proprietary software though (like Banshee/Rhythmbox/Exaile in place of iTunes).
-Sometimes more setup is required to get what you specifically want.
-Configuration will often times involve the command line and editing text files. If you're comfortable and ok with this (like I am) than it's no downside.
-lots of choice out there - I put this one as an upside and downside because sometimes too much choice can make a decision daunting. Such as "OMG! There are 500 distros out there! Which one do I pick?!"
-Compiling software - if a piece of software you want/need is not "built" for your distro, you will need to "build" it yourself through a process called compiling. Sometimes it's easy, sometimes it's very difficult, but it's always pretty involved.
-ATI graphics support is pretty lax - this is not the fault of Linux, this is the fault of ATI for releasing such crappy Linux drivers. If you have Intel or especially NVidia, you're in the clear. NVidia and Linux are best friends.

I think that covers the basics.

As far as installing your first distro, I would actually recommend using a completely different hard drive if you have one. If not, you can dual boot it fairly easily, but make sure you read read read the newbie guides on whatever distro's website you want to install.

Finally, any of the major distros are good for newbies (and more advanced users alike). Check out Ubuntu, OpenSUSE, Mandriva, and Mint. I've run all of those and they're all solid and well maintained.

mrqs

those also apply to windows 7

Shane2943

True. I never said those upsides were unique to Linux though, just that they are upsides (good points) about running the software.

Danny_Boy82

Thank you for the thorough response.

As to why I want to get Linux:

Well after spending 9 years in the military it is time for me to decide what I want to be when I grow up. I have always wished I knew more about computers, even more so now that I use android; I wish I had a more in-depth knowledge when it comes to things root. I will also be starting school this month in pursuit of a CS degree. I'm not sure if this is the road I want to go down, but the knowledge I might gain would certianly be useful.

I understand Linux will not be easy for me to figure out, especially coming from a soley windows experience, but I would like to broaden my knowledge base. A relative recently asked me, when talking to me about a potential job, if I knew anything about writing code or if I use Linux (I guess he was refering to doing things through the command prompt). I would like to have that knowledge and be able to say yes to questions like that.

Yeah I tried to do some research, but found it hard to wade through all the sites/info and decide what is good/bad.

TJGoSurf

I've heard its the year for Linux since 1995.

Shane2943

Understandable. I'd say you're off on the right foot already because you want to learn instead of just wanting free software that does X. Having the mindset of wanting to learn will give you far more patience and put you in the position to learn it.

Getting the basics down in Linux is not hard at all. I'm no expert and don't claim to be, but I know my way around a bit. You can get there too and quickly.

Try one of the 4 distros I listed. Be sure to find and read any startup guides or "READ BEFORE YOU INSTALL" guides. Might have to go to each distro's support forum to find those guides. But read read read and you'll have a working system that you can impress your friends with in no time.

I'm currently running OpenSUSE on my dual booted laptop that my wife and I share (she LOVES OpenSUSE) and I run OpenSUSE also on my home theater PC that we watch videos and movies on.

Danny_Boy82

I will check them out. It should be easier now that my search is defined.

Again, thanks for the info.

Shane2943

Hey, no problem sir. Best of luck to ya. There's tons of support out there if you get stuck so don't panic. Usually, if you get an error, just google all or part of the error and I bet several links will take you to solutions.

saptech

I've never known Windows to come with an Office Suite out the box. And most of the other software is MS specific, and alot of drivers for hardware does not work out the box.
I'm not bashing Windows, I dual boot with Linux myself.

9to5cynic

Well, most of those apply to windows. Windows does not include an office suite, you can buy Office for it, or you can stick with the demo versions they ship. With linux, you are getting a full featured office suite.

With updates, sure you can get the windows updates and service packs, but eventually, windows will cut support for what you have - it might take a while, but they will. With linux, you can go that route too, but you don't have to. Certain distors (arch comes to mind) don't require 'updates' on that level, each piece of software is updated as the updates are available, so there is no point in upgrading the entire OS (and having to do a new install).

Also, as far as the free software, sure you can dabble around in the internets looking for reliable software for windows - and you'll be able to find it. But with linux, it is right there in the software management that is being used.

(just to play devil's advocate)
Each piece of software has it's place... it's important to know what you need to do and what can do that with minimal hassle.

Almost friday!

mrqs

or you can get oo.o for free; ms office isn't the only option on windows

A.Nonymous

Windows cuts support for it's OSes after about 10 years or so usually. They still support XP and it's a ten year old OS. Also, just because you're not getting updates doesn't mean the OS won't continue to work. I know people who still use Windows 98. Microsoft ended support for it in 2006. Five years later it still works so they continue to use it. If you have a 10 year old OS, it's time to upgrade anyway, let's be honest.

I've also found that free version of Office (and I've played with several of them) are limited compared to MS Office and lack some advanced features. They're simply not as good.

(What? He can play devil's advocate, but I can't?)

Tresezk

I think Computing has gone ahead of Operating System Wars .
I can operate either of three Options with equal finesse (OSX,Windows,Linux) .Each has it's own strengths,weakness and solutions .
Whatever gets the job done at a particular moment is the OS of day/month/year/millennium .

thegexx

As far as popularity of *nix distro's check distrowatch.com. Since Ubuntu included unity it's taken a drop and mint has become the most popular choice. Or you can all get more adventerious and dive into FreeBSD or if you want a gui then PCBsd ..

Shane2943

For the average user and even some advanced functions work fine in OO and LibreOffice. I use OO exclusively at home and at work and while I don't create multi-layered spreadsheets with auto data entry scripts and macros and 3D HD graphs and whatnot, for home user and even intermediate office user functions, the free alternatives work fine. Are they replacements for the paid Office suite? In many cases yes, but certainly not all cases.

Use the right tool for the job.

No. You're not allowed. Go over there, sit down and be quiet.

j/k

A.Nonymous

If I need to drive a nail, I'll use a hammer and not a rock. A rock will work. Heck, a crowbar would work. None of them will work as well as a hammer will though.

I refuse.

saptech

Buying that hammer gonna cost you a pretty nice penny...anything less and you get less features.

Office Professional 2010
$349.99
For 1 user
1 PC only

The rocks are free and I can give them to others.

A.Nonymous

That's Professional. Most people don't need that. You're talking about an enterprise product there. I don't know of very many enterprise users who use a free Office alternative.

9to5cynic

Yes, but open office isn't included with Windows [which is what was being discussed], linux on the other hand will almost always have an office suite included.
Yeah, that's true... I'm still getting XP updates, and in regards to future updates - it's never a consideration for me when finding the right OS for me. And last time I used the included office suite on a windows computer, i think it was a 60 day trial, and I even want to say it wasn't the full version.... could be wrong. Libre Office was installed right away


xkcd: Mac/PC

Last edited by 9to5cynic; January 6th, 2012 at 11:34 PM.

ElasticNinja

It's been the YEAR OF LINUX apparently since 2004.. still pitiful desktop user adoption.
Yes, Android is spreading Linux to the average civilian, but while maybe 35% of people I'd know have Androids, less then 10% of people I know have heard of Linux.
The thing is, as long as Windows is sold on 95% (or whatever) of desktop systems (incl laptops), Linux will never get the marketshare of even OSX. Another factor is that Microsoft has monopolies on everything - including education. Everyone is educated via Windows, educated about using Word, Excel, Powerpoint and IE. The majority of non third level teachers responsible for teaching IT in schools have no idea about computer software - I mean nothing. Governments need to back Linux to break Microsofts monopoly - but politicians are in MS's pocket (largely via jobs created by MS), and thus action is only ever taken by non national level governments or the odd developing country.

I should point out I myself use Ubuntu 11.10, and any version of Windows pales in comparison for me personally. It feels a better OS, Windows is too disjointed. Its like a building that's been added to over time, but the foundations were never any good.

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Last edited by ElasticNinja; January 7th, 2012 at 01:40 PM.

Tresezk

I was waiting for someone (the man eating mole ) to post that comic .

A.Nonymous

Why does MS's monopoly need to be broken up? It's a natural monopoly. The feds have determined they didn't come to it by illegal means (for the most part) and consumer's aren't complaining. There are a million reasons why Linux has never gained traction on the desktop. It's not like it's a vastly superior OS in every way and there's a conspiracy to keep it covered up.

ElasticNinja

Not broken up - just room made for healthy competition. As it is MS has most manafacturers under their thumb. The browser choice screen was an excellent example of the government stepping in a simple and effective way to increase competition. Doubt IE9 would be so good without it.

Maybe your feds have not went after Microsoft, but the EC has; European Union Microsoft competition case - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia, and continues too. Still, they have only taken small steps. Competition is the hallmark and source of success of capitalism, it must be encouraged to a reasonable extent.

A.Nonymous

Remember when netbooks came out? A lot of them came with Linux on them. Consumers took them home, turned them on and promptly boxed them up and took them back to the store. No one wanted a netbook with Linux on it. Now netbooks come with XP or Win7 on them. Neither XP nor Win7 run particularly well on netbooks due to the hardware limitations. Linux runs much better on them. No question about it. Consumers do not want it. There's room for OEMs to roll out Linux. Consumers don't want it. You can order computers that come with Linux installed. No one wants them.

ElasticNinja

tbf, netbooks are generally bought by the least knowledgable section of the market, who break down when not familiar with something. When all people know is Windows, its no surprise.

zuben el genub

Except for the most popular games, Photoshop, and machine embroidery software - Linux does do almost everything.

I think the main problem is - you can make your own decisions about which software you want. Linux doesn't force every choice on you. I bet people are too damn lazy to deal with this. Mac is always advertised as working right out of the box, and MS is trying to do the same.

I'd rather have the choices. I've tried most of the video editing programs, all free, easy to install and uninstall and coming from the software center, no adware, nagware, and probably no malware.

A.Nonymous

How do you not have choices on Windows?

SUroot

I like Unity.

saptech

I don't know who, what, when or why those mfgs. decided to put some crippled version of any linux distro on netbooks from the beginning. Who ever heard of Linpus Linux, instead of installing Fedora or Redhat. Some even used Xandros who I believe is out of business at the time.

At a press conference sponsored by TAITRA, the Taiwan trade authority, a question was asked to executive director Walter Yeh about where Linux went on netbooks.
He passed the question to Li Chang, vice president of the Taipei Computer Association.
Chang mentioned a press conference yesterday where Google announced an Android phone to be made by Acer. But then he put it straight.

“In our association we operate as a consortium, like the open source consortium. They want to promote open source and Linux. But if you begin from the PC you are afraid of Microsoft. They try to go to the smart phone or PDA to start again.”

Taiwanese OEMs would love an alternative to Windows, but the sale comes first, before production. The chicken comes first. And since the chicken belongs to Microsoft, the penguin is helpless here.