Why wouldn't it affect the DROID? If Apple wins this, Android will have to be redesigned from the ground up. Some of the patents they are claiming were violated are swiping to unlock the phone and warm sleep when you put the phone to your ear, just to name a couple. Wonder if Google will get involved to protect Android?
Funny how after net rumors of 2.1 hitting the HTC phones started, this lawsuit was filed. Wonder how long its been sitting and waiting for the "prime opportunity"
Apple is just pi$$ed that folks have a choice now (of phones AND carriers).
How is that a bad thing? Force Google to innovate instead of steal. I don't have a problem with that. In fact, you'll probably see Google continue to develop voice interface with their devices. Maybe figure out other touch inputs. Who knows?! But to me, it's all good.
Apple isn't pissed off that folks have choice. They're pissed off because they're not being compensated for their work. We talk about how we'll pay for apps to support developers all the time. But now that the developer is Apple, what? They're not supposed to be paid?
HTC made a pretty penny selling Android phones. Time to pay up.
Already happening. Nokia will likely win their lawsuit for what Apple's stolen. There's another major player in the mobile device market: Palm. Apple's in deep with tech they've stolen from Palm.
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Re-read the patents, some of them are very detailed, complete with illustrations. And after you read them, you'll even say to yourself, "Wow, some of this is so simple! You're telling me HTC, Google, can't come up with something that doesn't violate this!??!" Then you'll know what I mean about being lazy. HTC was lazy. In a way, Google was lazy too.
Re: Palm (and Google to a certain extent)
I don't think they'll sue Apple because right now, Palm, Apple and Google are mutually benefiting off each other's technology. Palm just isn't selling enough phones to really be on Apple's radar. So, it's almost symbiotic. Google is selling a bunch of phones, but who makes those phones? HTC (AH!!!). Apple benefits from some of Google's tech, and vice versa. Apple can put Google in its place a bit but cutting off their greatest supplier of Android phones.
I mean, with this lawsuit out, ever wonder why Apple didn't take a cut at Google?
Oh, I read the patents and while I see a couple of them that HTC will get in trouble for there are quite a few others that total garbage. I am surprised Jobs has not tried to put a copyright on the use of the letter I.
I also know that this is just Apple's reaction to Android/Google blow-up in the market. I can easily see how they are going after HTC instead of attacking Google head on. I have a feeling that HTC may see some help from Google on this though.
I don't get it. If the code Google/HTC uses is different from apples (which it is), then how is it a violation? Sure, certain movements are in the patent. However, does that that mean I can get a patent for moving my hand up and down, and sue everyone I see doing it? I mean come on. Movements should not be in patents. Movements are physical and user controlled. This kind of patent completely limits technology and the advancement of it. So if I see a good idea and like it, and want to expand it ,because it has a patent and has physical movements built into the patent, I can't? Steve Jobs and apple are doing this for the primary reason that they do not want the IPhone to be second best, which it will be the way the android market is advancing. The timing here is epic, right when HTC and Motorola are ready to release new phones, bam, lawsuit. HTC may have "stolen" ideas from apple, but everything the IPhone has become has been from "stolen" ideas from someone else. It's amazing how the consumer suffers in this case.
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They also didn't have any problems stealing the OS for the iPod from Creative either.
LOL - the iPod OS wasn't stolen from Creative. It was purchased from another company.
Which is not to say that it isn't amusing to get lectures from Steve Jobs on how stealing is bad.... I suppose his next lecture will be on The Evils of Hypocrisy.
Anyone else see how vague some of those patents are? How in the hell did they get those in the first place? Some of those patents are of things other companies have done before they did. I just don't get it. This is why outside of the US patents on technology have been fought over for a long time. Because they realize that if you give patents like this to certain companies it kills advances in technology, and puts the power in the hands of a select few money hungry companies to completely dominate the market.
Actually if you read the actual patent filing, it is not vague at all. While htc, google and the rest were sleeping, Apple patented this stuff, anyone could have done it, them, you , me, but we did not and they did. If android is so good, it will come up with something better, no? who is stopping anyone from inventing something new and better? No one, thats who.
Of course this means 2.1 updates for android htc phones may be put on hold for a long time.....
Last edited by bbrosen; March 2nd, 2010 at 01:59 PM.
We only learned of Apple's actions based on your stories and Apple's press release. We have not been served yet so we are in no position to comment on the claims. We respect and value patent rights but we are committed to defending our own innovations. We have been innovating and patenting our own technology for 13 years.
Glad to see the Apple apologists could show up to the party.
i will defend any company for protecting what they own, HTC, Google, who ever..Its a free country so far. its about having rights. Not about apple. This applies to all
"Of course this means 2.1 updates for android htc phones may be put on hold for a long time....."
I don't believe that. Lawsuits are filed all day long and go on for years. That doesn't mean updates will held at all, take a look at Microsoft during all the years and years of lawsuits in multiple countries. Lawsuits are for the legal beagles, updates for IT. Never the twain shall meet.
Last edited by bjanow; March 2nd, 2010 at 02:08 PM.
"Hey, we invented the wheel, so now noone else can use it...."
Complete BS on apple's part
That's the whole point to this.
Some moron in the patent office allowed this crap to happen.
Holy crap... I got an idea.... I will patent AIR!!! Everyone has to breath! I will charge $1 billion dollars for every person that wants to live. WOOHOO!!!!
"Of course this means 2.1 updates for android htc phones may be put on hold for a long time....."
I don't believe that. Lawsuits are filed all day long and go on for years. That doesn't mean updates will held at all, take a look at Microsoft during all the years and years of lawsuits in multiple countries. Lawsuits are for the legal beagles, updates for IT. Never the twain shall meet.
hope you are right as I have the HTC hero, and have been waiting for the 2.1 to fix some issues
i will defend any company for protecting what they own, HTC, Google, who ever..Its a free country so far. its about having rights. Not about apple. This applies to all
Ahh, here come the Apple fansheep. Baa, baa, baaaaaa. It's almost like being on a farm.
More than anything, lawsuit wars illustrate the problems with the system. Is the US patent run by complete morons, by any chance, to have granted Apple such generic patents? Has anyone patented "turning on a device with a button" yet?
Quote:
Originally Posted by sooper_droid12
How is that a bad thing? Force Google to innovate instead of steal.
...
HTC made a pretty penny selling Android phones. Time to pay up.
Fanboy defense at its best.
Last edited by grainysand; March 2nd, 2010 at 02:37 PM.
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so its ok for apple to stand on the shoulders of amazon and copy the S$^# out of the kindle but HTC cant even have a lock screen? wow apple take a look in the mirror.
This would be like ford saying we made the first cars with door handles so were suing all other companies that make cars with door handles........ Really tho?
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Quote:
Originally Posted by finnaginagain
so its ok for apple to stand on the shoulders of amazon and copy the S$^# out of the kindle but HTC cant even have a lock screen? wow apple take a look in the mirror.
This would be like ford saying we made the first cars with door handles so were suing all other companies that make cars with door handles........ Really tho?
No actually some of this would be more like an upstart like Kia patenting door handles and somehow getting it granted then suing ford for using them!
WTF?? how do you get a patent granted for something that already exists? while it wasnt in the os, there were certain progs on my palm pilot that would lock the screen and force me to make a "gesture" to unlock it.
Sure looks to me like Apple wanted to go after the android phones and blasted the patent office with a bunch of crap, some of it stuck and they sicked the lawyers on it! at least one of these patents isnt even a month old
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With the iPad coming out with a relatively low level 1GHz processor and with Apple preventing themselves fragmenting the iPhone/iPod touch range (thanks to their business model) they feel that in order to stay on top they need to prevent any more 1GHz phones coming out (Desire/Supersonic) and the rumoured 1.5GHz dual core HTC...
With HTC being the flagship for Google on two occasions and being the biggest (or one of those) Android device manufacturers in the world it is a prime target.
If Apple were to succeed they would indirectly hurt Google (their real target) and really stunt the growth of Android (through both the lack of HTC phones and the fear of a similar case).
I really hope that HTC come out on top on this one, some of the claims are just plain ridiculous and we cannot allow Apple to continue to monopolise in such a dirty manner.
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Last edited by G8D; March 2nd, 2010 at 04:56 PM.
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It's good to see how scared apple is of htc and android in general. and if you look at it, they have enough reasons to be scared. apple released the iphone, which was a game changer, but since then they released a new version of the same phone with some technical and some software tweaks every year.
Now look at how often HTC releases new Phones. Well, since the latest iphone it's been the hero (and the droid eris), the tattoo, then the n1, now they've announced the desire and the legend. and this is just android. sure, the hero / droid eris and the n1 and desire are spec-wise very similar, but still, this is a whole lot of phones that have improved a lot in not even a year. Apple would have to produce an incredible next gen iphone, which, considering what they were able to do with the ipad, is not so sure.
So it's reasonable to just try and kill the competitors. but somehow i doubt that google and microsoft are gonna let apple destroy their greatest supplier.
Technically, Palm can sue Apple over touch technology PERIOD, considering the very first touch devices were Palm devices. Seriously, this is an attack plain and simple. HTC and Android is a direct threat to Apple and now we know it...lol
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quite frankly after owning an iphone they are crap and prefer my HTC Hero point blank.
I concur with this statement. Apple focused so much on the online functionality that the iPhone sucks as a phone, period. I would rather own an Android device made by HTC than anything Apple has created, period. They have too much control over what the consumer can do with devices THEY PURCHASED and we pay way too much for phones to not be able to make them custom to our liking.
I'm not going to lose any sleep over this one. By the time this lawsuit is settled, my eris will long have been obsolete and there will be many other options available. Some of which may be unimaginable to us now.
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Apple invented nothing...
Quote:
Originally Posted by pkopalek
The problem is, that it's EXACTLY about patenting ideas.
I hate to be behind Apple, but they missed this boat when they let Windows go 20+ years ago, without suing.
They've invented virtually the ENTIRETY of the ideas relating to how we interface with computers and our Android phones.
That being said, those are VERY broad ideas to patent. The problem isn't that they don't deserve a patent, some of them, for being so broad, but that the patent office DID issue them legal patents. That's the problem.
Apple and Microsoft both stole their original software from Xerox...they've been stealing off each other since - hence there being no successful lawsuit. Apple never owned it so there was never any grounds for it...
Apple focused so much on the online functionality that the iPhone sucks as a phone, period.
On the contrary, when I owned an iPhone, it made calling people seem fun again. Using my Droid Eris' phone app is opening up a whole new box of lag and pain. HTC's texting app could use a bit of work and optimization as well, especially with regards to attaching images and such. And the Bluetooth stack is unreliable and glitchy compared to the iPhone's.
However, I love Android and the rest of Sense UI more than enough to overlook that.
On-topic:
Software patents are stupid, and horrible for "innovation." Apple is good at polishing, that's what they do, find or take an idea that has potential and spit-shine the crap out of it till it sells, and it sells millions.
I don't get how Apple can do something as great as WebKit...they took KHTML and polished it, optimized it, and released their developments back into the Open Source development stream, and now every good browser uses WebKit...
and then do a 180º and pull this lawsuit off.
But then again, money changes things.
Last edited by frickingphil; March 2nd, 2010 at 08:22 PM.
Reason: added more on-topic stuff
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I think it's quite clear that when Google entered the phone market, Apple decided to punch a patent onto everything they could imagine. It doesn't matter if it was a good and detailed idea that will hold, or another other idea that is just vague (and they expected to get overturned). Either way the patents were always intended to be at the least a series of speed bumps to slow down the progress of their competition. Some of it will stick, and some of it will not.
Even if Android comes up with a unique method of achieving the same task for which Apple holds a patent, they will still get bogged down in a legal battle because Steve Jobs has pissed in all cardinal directions first. You can bet that this was part of Apples business strategy all along.
In no way am I suggesting that Apple should not be able to protect their IP, but I don't think anyone can disagree that they are also abusing the system with the sole objective to impede fair competition.
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So why doesn't google use android to come up with something better then pinch and zoom and be done with it? Isn't android all about innovation and customization? All these hands in the till make for competition and variety? this is what i have been told by most here, so lets see what Android can really do. Droid does.... right? The suit is not stopping anyone from inventing something totally different, unique and great so lets see where it takes Android. I think this is the time for Android to shine. I am stuck with Android for 2 years now, so I have till then to see how this shakes out. Who knows, this whole thing just might make a believer out of me.
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Seroiusly who cares about pinch zoom?? its a pita! let me click on the part i want zoomed and be done with it? It looks cool but the functionality of it is actually a step backward.
and just to rant some more, I'm amazed by the number of apple fanboys that have android devices. Even if they are within their "legal rights" because they paid off some patent clerk who didnt even know how to use google to look to see if something else was out there its obvious most of these "patents" are garbage. Must be all the folks torked off because the iphone isn't coming to verizon. its ok for Apple to steal radio technology from nokia, you know the thing that acutally makes it the "phone" part in iphone but someone makes an interface with icons on it and they get sued?? I'm with whoever above said google should buy them...kick them to the curb forever. \rant
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Quote:
Originally Posted by danielevans83
Apple and Microsoft both stole their original software from Xerox...they've been stealing off each other since - hence there being no successful lawsuit. Apple never owned it so there was never any grounds for it...
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bbrosen
So why doesn't google use android to come up with something better then pinch and zoom and be done with it? Isn't android all about innovation and customization? All these hands in the till make for competition and variety? this is what i have been told by most here, so lets see what Android can really do. Droid does.... right? The suit is not stopping anyone from inventing something totally different, unique and great so lets see where it takes Android. I think this is the time for Android to shine. I am stuck with Android for 2 years now, so I have till then to see how this shakes out. Who knows, this whole thing just might make a believer out of me.
The problem that I have with patents on pinch to zoom is that it is essentially the patent of a method of communication. The way that you communicate "zoom" to your map is really no different than you communicating "hello" to your friend over the phone. And from what I understand, Apple hasn't just patented the language, but the idea of the greeting itself.
IMO, when is comes to something as broad as communication (in this case pinch to zoom), Google should be allowed to use different language or coding to achieve the same task. How do you justify preventing anyone else from communicating in any way shape or form (if you could, Hallmark would have done it by now)?
Yes, I understand that in the world of programming, it all comes down to the means of communication. But I believe that monopolizing an entire means of communication hinders growth (like it would be if someone patented typing on a keyboard or viewing a computer monitor). Protect your IP as far as you can, so long as it doesn't prevent everyone else from all similar forms of interaction.
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I should file a patent for "Using an electronic communication device for commenting on topics for which I have very little, to no knowledge about". I'd make a killing in threads like this.
So shouldn't HTC go after Apple and AT&T for antitrust law violation?
I am pretty damn sure that Apple made an agreement with AT&T not to carry any Droid based phones because it would be competition.
at&t plans to carry Android based phones, however their first one the Motorola Back-Flip will not have Google search on it! (it will have Yahoo search instead) Smells of rotten Apples There!
This "Spat" between Apple and Google should make life pretty interesting for at&t!
Apple remember: Google is taking on China with the help of the NSA!
And both Apple and HTC should learn from the past mistakes of others: "I fear all we have done is to awaken a sleeping giant and fill him with a terrible resolve."
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Technically, Palm can sue Apple over touch technology PERIOD, considering the very first touch devices were Palm devices. Seriously, this is an attack plain and simple. HTC and Android is a direct threat to Apple and now we know it...lol
That assumes that Apple has not already licensed this technology from Palm.
I don't get it. If the code Google/HTC uses is different from apples (which it is), then how is it a violation? Sure, certain movements are in the patent. However, does that that mean I can get a patent for moving my hand up and down, and sue everyone I see doing it? I mean come on. Movements should not be in patents. Movements are physical and user controlled. This kind of patent completely limits technology and the advancement of it. So if I see a good idea and like it, and want to expand it ,because it has a patent and has physical movements built into the patent, I can't? Steve Jobs and apple are doing this for the primary reason that they do not want the IPhone to be second best, which it will be the way the android market is advancing. The timing here is epic, right when HTC and Motorola are ready to release new phones, bam, lawsuit. HTC may have "stolen" ideas from apple, but everything the IPhone has become has been from "stolen" ideas from someone else. It's amazing how the consumer suffers in this case.
I think that Apple does not want the iPhone/iPod/iPad to be obsolete before they can rake every last nickel out of ALL of our collective pockets!
Android has now (in the last 3 months) significantly shortened the current iPhone's tenure as the King of the cool smart-phones for the masses! This is a last ditch effort, to stem the overwhelming Android tide, as I see it.
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It's good to see how scared apple is of htc and android in general. and if you look at it, they have enough reasons to be scared. apple released the iphone, which was a game changer, but since then they released a new version of the same phone with some technical and some software tweaks every year.
Now look at how often HTC releases new Phones. Well, since the latest iphone it's been the hero (and the droid eris), the tattoo, then the n1, now they've announced the desire and the legend. and this is just android. sure, the hero / droid eris and the n1 and desire are spec-wise very similar, but still, this is a whole lot of phones that have improved a lot in not even a year. Apple would have to produce an incredible next gen iphone, which, considering what they were able to do with the ipad, is not so sure.
So it's reasonable to just try and kill the competitors. but somehow i doubt that google and microsoft are gonna let apple destroy their greatest supplier.
We only learned of Apple's actions based on your stories and Apple's press release. We have not been served yet so we are in no position to comment on the claims. We respect and value patent rights but we are committed to defending our own innovations. We have been innovating and patenting our own technology for 13 years.
So does this make htc evil too?
LOL! Are they in it for the Money or the general betterment of Mankind!?!
How is that a bad thing? Force Google to innovate instead of steal. I don't have a problem with that. In fact, you'll probably see Google continue to develop voice interface with their devices. Maybe figure out other touch inputs. Who knows?! But to me, it's all good.
Apple isn't pissed off that folks have choice. They're pissed off because they're not being compensated for their work. We talk about how we'll pay for apps to support developers all the time. But now that the developer is Apple, what? They're not supposed to be paid?
With Apple it is a bit more than money involved here. If it was just about money, then Apple would have the iPhone on every U.S. cell carrier that wanted it today. I think that this is more about future potential money and Egos!
Apple wants to be the proverbial "Top dog," in at least one technology driven market segment. They have always had the attitude and the desire, but they never really had the products to back it up, that is before the iPhone/iPad hit the market. Now those, "Top dog," products are being threatened, so Apple has to strike quickly before the offending Throne stealing Green monster can make off with the crown.
Quote:
Originally Posted by sooper_droid12
HTC made a pretty penny selling Android phones. Time to pay up.
This assumes that there are actual U.S. patent violations here and that they have actually made a pretty penny thus far.
Apple is completely aware of how bad it is failing so now they are just trying to stay afloat (giant ipod touch anyone) Fanboys are everywhere and will absolutely support apple because it's soo awesome and what not, and my phone is just as powerful as the ipad and does everything that the ipad does (and flash support soon anyone? ^_^)
Anyways look, after the first set of ipods started to lose popularity, what came next? Nanos i think. then then shuffles, then the iphone, ipod touch, 1g 2g 3g 3gs etc etc.
I happened to have 3 videos that explain apples products....
instead of a retort.
