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Old April 23rd, 2012, 07:57 PM   #1 (permalink)
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Default Things aren't looking great for Google (update - except for Oracle having to pay their legal fees)

Things are not looking very good, with this evidence it seems like Google doesn't have a chance of winning.

Btw, I wasn't sure where to post this since it might belong in Politics and Current Affairs, or the Google section. Feel free to move this thread.

http://news.cnet.com/8301-1035_3-57418996-94/android-chief-andy-rubin-said-java.lang-apis-are-copyrighted-in-2006-email/

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Old April 23rd, 2012, 08:29 PM   #2 (permalink)
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Oracle who needs e'm

Lawyers who needs e'm

Why Can't they quit suing each other and start realizing there is only a short time to enjoy this stuff before it becomes obsolete. I mean really the radio is not quite a hundred years old yet I don't believe. (I think it came out in the tweentys but hell I suck at history and spelling )
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Old April 24th, 2012, 02:10 AM   #3 (permalink)
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Interisting.. Watching and waiting
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Old April 24th, 2012, 02:25 AM   #4 (permalink)
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I've been following this, but I don't really know enough to predict how it will turn out. I know Google must think they have a case or they would have settled before it actually made it to trial. Worst case, Google loses and it costs them a crap-load of money. I don't think Android will really be effected much.
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Old April 24th, 2012, 03:59 AM   #5 (permalink)
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I've been following this, but I don't really know enough to predict how it will turn out. I know Google must think they have a case or they would have settled before it actually made it to trial. Worst case, Google loses and it costs them a crap-load of money. I don't think Android will really be effected much.
Which is whats really is going on Oracle is hoping to Capitalize on something they bought and not anything they themselves were smart enough to create and that kind of corporate america really makes me
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Old April 24th, 2012, 08:20 AM   #6 (permalink)
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Which is whats really is going on Oracle is hoping to Capitalize on something they bought and not anything they themselves were smart enough to create and that kind of corporate america really makes me
Companies buy other companies to capitalize on what they do every day. There's nothing wrong with that. Google bought Motorola to capitalize on what they had, whether it was their patents or they actually plan on going into the handset business. I don't know enough about the technical stuff to know if Google infringed on Java or not, but if they did, they should have licensed it like everyone else. It's pretty arrogant if they just said "screw it, we're just using your code and we're not paying you squat. Good luck in court."
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Old April 24th, 2012, 09:29 AM   #7 (permalink)
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When they started, Google expected that they were within bounds with Sun.

Then, Oracle bought Sun. And waited until they felt sure that they could have Google in a corner. And originally they were suing each other for billions, but that was tossed.

Two sides to every case, the next round will prove interesting.
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Old April 24th, 2012, 11:17 AM   #8 (permalink)
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Gsmash thats my whole point we have company's suing each other and people suing companies and it all should be open source it should all be available to everyone to tweak as they need it.

But that's not the Capitalistic Way is it. I mean people sue just to sue. A lady sues because "Coffee" a beverage always have been served HOT burned her and the JUDGE not only allowed the case HE AWARDED HER. SERIOUSLY!!. What has happened to RESPONSIBILITY? Why is that such a negative word anymore.

I think if a Company Buys out another Company then all the Patents the company that was bought out had should go public and be open source. That would stop these people from wasting all this tax paying money filling up the courts with this kind of corporate garbage. I bet it would also stop these bigger companies from forcing these smaller companies into bankruptcy. Or even other companies into looking into other collaborations that could benefit us the public and those corporations even more
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Old April 24th, 2012, 04:38 PM   #9 (permalink)
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What we want and what the law is don't always coincide.

It just is what it is.
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Old April 25th, 2012, 04:15 AM   #10 (permalink)
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What we want and what the law is don't always coincide.

It just is what it is.
which is why its best not to let it consume you i did for to many years now I consume me.
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Old April 25th, 2012, 05:40 AM   #11 (permalink)
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Gsmash thats my whole point we have company's suing each other and people suing companies and it all should be open source it should all be available to everyone to tweak as they need it.

But that's not the Capitalistic Way is it. I mean people sue just to sue. A lady sues because "Coffee" a beverage always have been served HOT burned her and the JUDGE not only allowed the case HE AWARDED HER. SERIOUSLY!!. What has happened to RESPONSIBILITY? Why is that such a negative word anymore.

I think if a Company Buys out another Company then all the Patents the company that was bought out had should go public and be open source. That would stop these people from wasting all this tax paying money filling up the courts with this kind of corporate garbage. I bet it would also stop these bigger companies from forcing these smaller companies into bankruptcy. Or even other companies into looking into other collaborations that could benefit us the public and those corporations even more
While I agree that patent law needs to be overhauled, (vastly shortening the length of tech patents would be a good place to start) you can't just expect all of a company's IP to turn into vapor when they get bought out. A lot of time, work and high paid salaries go into developing intellectual property, and it's worth something. I'm not really talking specifically about this case, I'm not a lawyer, I only know enough to know what I don't know, but it seems like Oracle figured they had Google by the...tail and wanted to charge more than Google thought was fair, so Google decided to take their chances in court. Whether they have a legal leg to stand on, I have no idea, but like I said, obviously Google thinks they do.

About the McDonalds hot coffee case, people like to cite that because it's easy, but it's not that simple. McDonalds coffee was hotter than normal, they had settled numerous cases over it before. The old lady had third degree burns and required skin grafts on her legs. The big money was awarded by a jury, not the judge, and was reduced on appeal and eventually settled for less than $600K. I have no problem with people suing corporations for grievances, it's the only thing that keeps them in line. Beware of anybody who tries to take that right away.
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Old April 25th, 2012, 03:10 PM   #12 (permalink)
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Actually the McDonald's thing was a poor example on my part. That's comparing apples and oranges. Like you I know enough knowledge about Law that It tells me I know nothing. And I really have no problem with someone trying to make an honest dollar. In the end that's what we are all trying to do. Support our Families and Habits.

I'm just sick and tired of hearing about all the Law suites really I mean enough is enough lets get back to what this was being done for to begin with. I mean how many millions is Oracle / Google going to shell out and in the end its us the customers who are going to pay. It's a pettiness I think that has plagued our Country and we need to get to a point were all the focus and attention is going into the Product and not the Courtroom.
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Old April 25th, 2012, 03:32 PM   #13 (permalink)
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Actually the McDonald's thing was a poor example on my part. That's comparing apples and oranges. Like you I know enough knowledge about Law that It tells me I know nothing. And I really have no problem with someone trying to make an honest dollar. In the end that's what we are all trying to do. Support our Families and Habits.

I'm just sick and tired of hearing about all the Law suites really I mean enough is enough lets get back to what this was being done for to begin with. I mean how many millions is Oracle / Google going to shell out and in the end its us the customers who are going to pay. It's a pettiness I think that has plagued our Country and we need to get to a point were all the focus and attention is going into the Product and not the Courtroom.
Agreed. I'd rather see them spending their money on improving and developing new products than on lawsuits.
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Old April 25th, 2012, 03:58 PM   #14 (permalink)
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Agreed. I'd rather see them spending their money on improving and developing new products than on lawsuits.
Amen to that. The litigation is getting old, and the only people really winning are the lawyers. And of course it is the lawyers convincing the executives to take it to court in the first place.
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Old April 25th, 2012, 04:33 PM   #15 (permalink)
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If all agreed we'll start shipping out all Lawyers tomorrow Can we go a head and extend this to Politicians as well? Just a thought

AntimonyER your not very far from my neck of the woods. I'm a bit more east and south than you
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Old April 25th, 2012, 04:38 PM   #16 (permalink)
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If all agreed we'll start shipping out all Lawyers tomorrow Can we go a head and extend this to Politicians as well? Just a thought

AntimonyER your not very far from my neck of the woods. I'm a bit more east and south than you
Yeah? I work in Sav.
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Old April 25th, 2012, 06:11 PM   #17 (permalink)
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Yeah? I work in Sav.
I used to live in Savannah over by Memorial Off of Waters. I did plumbing work back then. Oh the good ole days took the wife there a couple of years ago I was amazed at how much I still remembered.
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Old April 25th, 2012, 07:59 PM   #18 (permalink)
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Amen to that. The litigation is getting old, and the only people really winning are the lawyers. And of course it is the lawyers convincing the executives to take it to court in the first place.
This, I don't believe.

Steve Jobs said, his own words, that he was out to bury Android in a thermonuclear legal battle. No one put him up to it.

Larry Ellison, ceo of Oracle, has been pushing for the need to have all Americans get a special identity card, that will allow all government agencies to access your profile - driving record, court records, law enforcement records, tax records, the list goes on and on. And after being shot down twice, 9/11 happened and he won't go away.

Why?

Because he has already worked out the data models for an Oracle database that will make him and his company a protected national resource. The man is sick.

So, Android gains in popularity, and Google potentially has many records on you. What do you think Larry Ellison is after, really? Why was his first lawsuit for more than Google could ever pay?

Evil men exist.

Sometimes, only the lawyers can save us from them.

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I used to live in Savannah over by Memorial Off of Waters. I did plumbing work back then. Oh the good ole days took the wife there a couple of years ago I was amazed at how much I still remembered.
Yeah, sometimes marriage can do that to your memory.
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Old April 26th, 2012, 04:34 AM   #19 (permalink)
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How about the other side of the story?

Google: Vampire Oracle targeting Android after own phone failure - SlashGear



Go download Java for free to your PC, then tell me that Oracle isn't evil, and Google just snuck off with Java in the middle of the night.
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Old April 26th, 2012, 05:07 AM   #20 (permalink)
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^
Thanks. Very informative article when you also read the links included within it.
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Old April 26th, 2012, 05:25 AM   #21 (permalink)
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Larry Ellison, ceo of Oracle, has been pushing for the need to have all Americans get a special identity card, that will allow all government agencies to access your profile - driving record, court records, law enforcement records, tax records, the list goes on and on. And after being shot down twice, 9/11 happened and he won't go away.
TBH I thought the US Govt and its agencies could already do all that. ID card would just make things easier for them?
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Old April 26th, 2012, 07:20 AM   #22 (permalink)
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Here:
Judge to Oracle: No, you can't assert another patent against Google
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Old April 26th, 2012, 07:25 AM   #23 (permalink)
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TBH I thought the US Govt and its agencies could already do all that. ID card would just make things easier for them?
In addition to wonderful inefficiencies, a lot of information sharing requires administrative paperwork showing cause and even a court order in some cases.

The United States of Oracle would cure that.
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Old April 26th, 2012, 07:36 AM   #24 (permalink)
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This, I don't believe.

Steve Jobs said, his own words, that he was out to bury Android in a thermonuclear legal battle. No one put him up to it.

Larry Ellison, ceo of Oracle, has been pushing for the need to have all Americans get a special identity card, that will allow all government agencies to access your profile - driving record, court records, law enforcement records, tax records, the list goes on and on. And after being shot down twice, 9/11 happened and he won't go away.

Why?

Because he has already worked out the data models for an Oracle database that will make him and his company a protected national resource. The man is sick.

So, Android gains in popularity, and Google potentially has many records on you. What do you think Larry Ellison is after, really? Why was his first lawsuit for more than Google could ever pay?

Evil men exist.

Sometimes, only the lawyers can save us from them.



Yeah, sometimes marriage can do that to your memory.
Yeah, I see your point about who is driving it, but considering the lack of significant judgements, I believe my statement about who is really benefiting still holds.
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Old April 26th, 2012, 12:11 PM   #25 (permalink)
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The trial is pretty fascinating.

Lots of news coming out.

E.G. Number of Tablets sold, Revenues. I was totally surprise that iOS ad revenues pretty much funds Android's development. It is staggeringly off vis-a-vis the touted 850,000 daily android activations. You figure Android would bring in more money since it has an app-store and the google play (music/books/movies). Yet, iOS ad revenues in just web ads is staggering.

Kindle fire does nothing for Google since Amazon's silk browser strips and blocks google ads.

First Android revenue numbers revealed: $278.1m in 2010, iPhone more lucrative | The Verge
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Old April 27th, 2012, 05:20 AM   #26 (permalink)
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In case some people don't read Phandroid:

Former Sun CEO: Google didn’t need licenses to use Java APIs for Android
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It is hard to predict how it will turn out, I guess.
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Old April 27th, 2012, 10:51 AM   #28 (permalink)
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The trial is pretty fascinating.

Lots of news coming out.

E.G. Number of Tablets sold, Revenues. I was totally surprise that iOS ad revenues pretty much funds Android's development. It is staggeringly off vis-a-vis the touted 850,000 daily android activations. You figure Android would bring in more money since it has an app-store and the google play (music/books/movies). Yet, iOS ad revenues in just web ads is staggering.

Kindle fire does nothing for Google since Amazon's silk browser strips and blocks google ads.

First Android revenue numbers revealed: $278.1m in 2010, iPhone more lucrative | The Verge
I'm not sure how you arrived at the conclusion that iOS ad revenue is funding Android development. From the article -

Quote:
... Google expected the delta to widen; the company forecast making $840.2m from Android mobile ads in 2012 vs just $35.9m on apps sales.
Are you suggesting that it costs Google more than nearly $1 billion per year in Android development?

And for the growth years when the numbers hadn't reached this level yet, why attribute Android development funding to iOS ads? Why not ads for Ford? Car insurance? Health foods?

While the numbers are sensational, and the headline even more so, I find that it's best to question anything sensational in the blogosphere.

The authors of the article admit that the numbers comparing iOS and Android revenue are two years old and may have reversed already.

What the article does seem to confirm is that Google is in the advertising business and that they make a great deal of money in the mobile segment.
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Old May 23rd, 2012, 03:54 PM   #29 (permalink)
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Oracle loses on patent infrigement.

Now the trial needs to continue on the copyright infringement.

Over 9 - count 'em - 9 lines of source code.

End of android!?

Oracle started out suing Google for US$6.1 billion (with a b - billion) while crying a river in the media.

It seems that early reports of Android's demise were greatly exaggerated.

Google is going to owe Oracle how much, exactly, for 9 lines of code?

Hey Larry (ceo of Oracle) - didja have fun? Was it all worth it?

How'd that work out for ya, huh?
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Old May 23rd, 2012, 04:52 PM   #30 (permalink)
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"How you like them apples? "
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Old May 23rd, 2012, 05:11 PM   #31 (permalink)
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"How you like them apples? "
I think forever more that quote should be "How'd you like them Andys? "
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Old May 23rd, 2012, 05:58 PM   #32 (permalink)
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Oracle loses on patent infrigement.

Now the trial needs to continue on the copyright infringement.

Over 9 - count 'em - 9 lines of source code.

End of android!?

Oracle started out suing Google for US$6.1 billion (with a b - billion) while crying a river in the media.

It seems that early reports of Android's demise were greatly exaggerated.

Google is going to owe Oracle how much, exactly, for 9 lines of code?

Hey Larry (ceo of Oracle) - didja have fun? Was it all worth it?

How'd that work out for ya, huh?
Here is how I see his reasoning...Java is heading out...HTML5 is coming into it's own...we need something to stay afloat...now Android exploding...we want a piece of the pie...Android is based on Java...hmm...if we can win a lawsuit...ask for a stupid amount of money...maybe Google will agree to licensing fees...if so we can pull a Microsoft and get by using the successful coat tails of others...

Or at least that is how I see it, they didn't want to end Android they just wanted to make secure a future for themselves thinking Android will remain successful. I can't say I blame them, if they really thought they had a case there is a lot of money to be had there...why not roll the dice?

I've also read that both sides may push for a mistrial which would make this far from over...but as it stands right now looks good for Google and Android
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Old May 23rd, 2012, 07:48 PM   #33 (permalink)
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Over 9 - count 'em - 9 lines of source code.[/I]
And the kicker is initially Oracle said that code was worthless, now that that is the only win, they want millions for it.
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Old May 23rd, 2012, 11:11 PM   #34 (permalink)
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Let's keep the patent trolling in perspective.

Oracle was looking at buying RIM (they have a toolkit for developing BlackBerry apps) but decided it would be a non-starter. So the new plan became buy Sun and try to screw Google over Android profits.

Read all you can about Larry Ellison, Oracle ceo. He's a dangerous meglomaniac. See my earlier post on that, and search the web for the details if interested.

He didn't want licenses, he wants a piece of the market that can gather your personal information, and not for advertising.

The 9 lines in question are not in ICS.

Some say that the final settlement may be between $100-200k.

But this is going to hit Larry boy where he needs to hurt the most - right square in his irrational ego.
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Old May 24th, 2012, 12:49 AM   #35 (permalink)
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Whatever they get, it surely won't cover their legal fees lol. Way to stick to your guns, Google!
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Old June 7th, 2012, 11:28 AM   #36 (permalink)
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Tip of the topper to IOWA for passing along this news -

Ouch - Judge orders Oracle to reimburse Google's legal expensesAndroidGuys

Please let me translate into simply legal terms -





Ok, I couldn't resist. Seriously though -




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Old June 7th, 2012, 11:38 AM   #37 (permalink)
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Well it would suck to be Oracle right now...
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Old June 7th, 2012, 11:49 AM   #38 (permalink)
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Tip of the topper to IOWA for passing along this news -

Ouch - Judge orders Oracle to reimburse Google's legal expensesAndroidGuys

Please let me translate into simply legal terms -





Ok, I couldn't resist. Seriously though -




i did not read the court briefings...

but some of the comments there.. say that the article is miss-leading.
Oracle does have to pay.. but not for what the article says or that much.

for making google doing some study 3 times.. or for not doing something the court ordered them to do.. not sure.
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Old June 7th, 2012, 01:18 PM   #39 (permalink)
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i did not read the court briefings...

but some of the comments there.. say that the article is miss-leading.
Oracle does have to pay.. but not for what the article says or that much.

for making google doing some study 3 times.. or for not doing something the court ordered them to do.. not sure.
Yep, the comments there are why I linked to that article instead of another.

But the lousy write-up does not change the fact.

Oracle has to pay.
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Old June 7th, 2012, 01:40 PM   #40 (permalink)
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I'm really liking the updated thread title.
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Old June 7th, 2012, 01:48 PM   #41 (permalink)
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I saw this on my twitter feed and immediately came to look for this thread. I love when justice is done.
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