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Old July 15th, 2012, 12:44 PM   #101 (permalink)
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Greetings Early . . .

Let me suggest this and please feel free to correct my reasoning.

There are vast numbers of Android phones on the market. Hundreds arrive every year to replace the hundreds that depart the scene.

There is only one (OK, we have the 4 and 4S, so perhaps there are two) iPhone(s). Apple might have a smaller market share, but when one company has 34% of the total market, I should think that says something.

When the iPhone 5 arrives, I am betting the numbers you posted will change and in Apple's favor. Then perhaps some Android phone will arrive that captures the public's attention and Apple will slip.

Android holds the lead (in my opinion) not because it is better, but because you can get an Android phone for free or almost no cost from hundreds of places. And there are (I am guessing) more than 75 Android Phones currently on the market. They are sold off contract by Boost, VM and Cricket in my grocery store and the 7-11.

Not so with the iPhone. Well, you can get one no contract which is why I am going to purchase one. I will watch the news about sales of the 4/4s sold through Cricket and VM. I am willing to bet theyt sell fast. You can likely attribute some sales to the public's perception that an iPhone is the best phone.

I also wonder what would happen if Apple licensed iOS. Would there be as many Android OS phones or would we see dozens of iOS phones offered by other manufacturers?

I am convinced there would be fewer Android phones and more models running iOS. And if Android was not open source, would there be as many Android phones?

Again, clarifications are welcome.

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Old July 15th, 2012, 12:45 PM   #102 (permalink)
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Um well there is one iPhone and a ton of android phones.. if there's a problem on an android phone a dev can fix them. Say you get a bad phone. Find a dev with some free time and find him or her a donation device to work with. After that your phone will now get fixed up to a better glory. And note that armv6 theoretically can run open max libs. Again you need a dev with enough time to do it
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Old July 15th, 2012, 12:49 PM   #103 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Bob Maxey View Post
It is their duty to protect their patents. Forgetting for a moment that the patent system needs to be looked at because it is to some degree broken; still, Apple must protect their property.
That excuse doesn't hold water.

It's one thing to sue defensively to protect your bread and butter. It's quite a different thing to sue in a predatory manner to stifle fair market competition, get out of their own contractual obligations and to make money by shaking down small businesses that can't afford to go to court and stay in business.

I wonder how much of Apple's bottom line has come from litigation and settlements made by companies that couldn't afford to defend themselves from Apple in court.
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Old July 15th, 2012, 12:57 PM   #104 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Bob Maxey View Post
But those issues might not matter to the masses.

I think some people pull apart Android and/or iOS because they are not normal users. Those gathered here are concerned more about the inner workings of the OS than Joe Public cares about the inner workings and tech crap.

You will find plenty pf web sites that complain about Android and ditto, iOS. My guess is the big issues and complaints you read do not matter to the general user and that is who Apple and Android target.
That is a very dangerous premise. For example, if a particular service is enabled by default on a device and it's impossible to stop without jailbreak or root, you may be correct that the "masses" may not be interested in the nuts and bolts of issue, but they most certainly are interested in why they cannot improve battery life. They probably don't even know (or care, for that matter) how or why something works, they just want it fixed. And really, the discussion isn't about which platform has more issues, but recognizing that they all do. You also can't assume that any Android or iOS user that doesn't post a complaint or has an issue is a satisfied user. Logic and statistics just doesn't bear that out.

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I seriously doubt that.

It is no more fragile than my Triumph.
Can't speak for the triumph, but there have certainly been drop tests comparing iPhone to other models. Let's look at concurrently released leading models ...iPhone 4S vs Samsung Galaxy S II drop test. Of course this won't hold true for all models, but if you look at the current top end Android Phones like the One X, the S3, Razr Maxx and even the GNex, only the Maxx weighs in heavier than the 4S at 145g. Granted we are only talking a few grams either way, but add the glass on both sides of the 4S and you have doubled the probability for damage.


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As for the antenna issue, I am not sure it affected every user and I an sure it affects many Android users. Sales of the iPhones seem to be doing OK.
Nobody is denying that antenna attenuation isn't a hurdle all handset manufacturers deal with and antenna location in the device will vary the amount of signal loss depending where and how a user holds it, but we're talking about what many consider to be a design flaw, not a design choice. Apple chose to put an exposed dipole antenna on the 4/4S which in theory could provide better signal strength, but proved problematic when the galvanic skin conductance was shown on some people to bridge the two poles of the antenna and reduce the signal by an order of magnitude. It may also be why the vast majority of handset manufacturers are still using monopole antenna designs.
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Old July 15th, 2012, 01:00 PM   #105 (permalink)
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That excuse doesn't hold water.

It's one thing to sue defensively to protect your bread and butter. It's quite a different thing to sue in a predatory manner to stifle fair market competition, get out of their own contractual obligations and to make money by shaking down small businesses that can't afford to go to court and stay in business.

I wonder how much of Apple's bottom line has come from litigation and settlements made by companies that couldn't afford to defend themselves from Apple in court.
Not so fast. I agree, the system needs to be looked at. That said, if you own a patent, you must protect it. And corporations have been fighting patent battles since the beginning of time. OK, since the beginning of the patent system. You only know about these battles because of the Internet. It is as though you think Apple is the only one.

If a small company cant afford the costs then perhaps they should hire better lawyers to vet their products. Small companies can be worse than Apple but Apple is an easy target.

Hell, we spent allot of money at Megahertz before we released the X-Jack and Palm had issues with the Pilot Pen Company; the PPC was suing us over the use of the name "Pilot." We even had issues with a special tool we used to move printed circuit boards into and out of the ovens.

I am not saying Apple is always doing the right thing, but in the case of patent protections, they must protect their property and small companies should also check things out before they release a product that might infringe.
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Old July 15th, 2012, 01:02 PM   #106 (permalink)
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I also wonder what would happen if Apple licensed iOS. Would there be as many Android OS phones or would we see dozens of iOS phones offered by other manufacturers?

I am convinced there would be fewer Android phones and more models running iOS. And if Android was not open source, would there be as many Android phones?

Again, clarifications are welcome.
If you recall, Apple tried this once with their desktop OS and it was such a failure it nearly brought the company to it's knees. It is not and never will be their business model.

If Google gave every handset manufacturer a small percentage of it's profits from Android use, I'm sure there would be many more Android handsets and fewer iPhones, but that's not going to happen either.
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Old July 15th, 2012, 01:11 PM   #107 (permalink)
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It's very simple. An iPhone is a fashion accessory. An Android phone is a geek toy. Different strokes for different folks. Personally I would be bored to death with an iPhone. All you can do with it is flash it around at Starbucks. My Galaxy Nexus is endless fun, and a great phone. I wouldn' t trade it for any iPhone.
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Old July 15th, 2012, 01:22 PM   #108 (permalink)
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It's very simple. An iPhone is a fashion accessory. An Android phone is a geek toy. Different strokes for different folks. Personally I would be bored to death with an iPhone. All you can do with it is flash it around at Starbucks. My Galaxy Nexus is endless fun, and a great phone. I wouldn' t trade it for any iPhone.
Not me, I flash my iPad at Starbucks. I do see plenty of Android phones at Dunkin' Donuts and McDonalds, however. Not sure what that means.

Why is your Nexus better or so much more fun than an iPhone?
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Old July 15th, 2012, 01:23 PM   #109 (permalink)
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Well....the one vs. many argument and market share....

We really won't know since there are so many Android phones. All I know is...ppl are choosing Android. And ppl left win mo. Ppl left blackberry. Those things happened for a reason. It's not just about price, cuz win mo and bb had cheaper prices too.

Look at wp7, they offer cheaper prices now...and still have less market share than the old win mo.

Android might not be perfect....but it's good enough that ppl like it vs. other phones. And I mentioned issues with iOS and macrumors.com because some, alot of the issues I see there aren't major. Like face time not working, or the phone not backing up or importing right.

IOS isn't perfect. It has issues like other OS's.
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Old July 15th, 2012, 01:52 PM   #110 (permalink)
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Nobody is denying that antenna attenuation isn't a hurdle all handset manufacturers deal with and antenna location in the device will vary the amount of signal loss depending where and how a user holds it, but we're talking about what many consider to be a design flaw, not a design choice. Apple chose to put an exposed dipole antenna on the 4/4S which in theory could provide better signal strength, but proved problematic when the galvanic skin conductance was shown on some people to bridge the two poles of the antenna and reduce the signal by an order of magnitude. It may also be why the vast majority of handset manufacturers are still using monopole antenna designs.
Dammit! Now I can't get that song from "The Simpsons" Monorail episode out of my mind...

FYI in LMR we don't call them monopoles. Half a dipole is a quarter wavelength (¼λ). An ideal tuned antenna is two ¼λ elements in a dipole arrangement. Often we use a ¼λ element, and use something conductive like a car roof or a person's arm to act as a ground plane, which substitutes for the missing ¼λ well enough.

I don't know if the notmePhone 4 antenna was a true resonant dipole, though. Also, most slim handsets must use a patch antenna to save space. Because of how they're constructed (copper on a substrate), patch antenna designs can range from being very simple to being quite fancy.
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Old July 15th, 2012, 02:24 PM   #111 (permalink)
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Default my $.02

While I do not buy Apple products (cost mainly) I do support them emotionally and as competition breeds innovation.

iOS, Windows mobile, Blackberry and such push Android to improve, just as the developer communities push Google towards new achievement.




Will I buy an iPhone? Prolly not, but I'm glad it's out there.
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Old July 15th, 2012, 02:30 PM   #112 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Bob Maxey View Post
Not so fast. I agree, the system needs to be looked at. That said, if you own a patent, you must protect it. And corporations have been fighting patent battles since the beginning of time. OK, since the beginning of the patent system. You only know about these battles because of the Internet. It is as though you think Apple is the only one.
Apple is the only one that's germane to this conversation.

Please, let's steer away from ad hominem territory, OK?


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If a small company cant afford the costs then perhaps they should hire better lawyers to vet their products.
I hope you notice the inherent flaw in that reasoning without me having to tell you. But just in case, it's obvious that if a company can't afford to pay lots of lawyers' fees, it also can't afford to pay lots of lawyers' fees.

Also, you're assuming that the target is always liable. That's not true.


Quote:
...Palm had issues with the Pilot Pen Company; the PPC was suing us over the use of the name "Pilot."
Did you work at Palm? I worked for Freeborn & Peters, who represented Palm, Inc. up to and through 3com's purchase of the company. Small world. (Not germane to the topic however. IJS)


Quote:
I am not saying Apple is always doing the right thing, but in the case of patent protections, they must protect their property and small companies should also check things out before they release a product that might infringe.
You're not saying it outright, but by inferring that every company that Apple threatened to sue had it coming you are most certainly saying that very thing indirectly. IME and IMO Apple has sued as a strategy, and have been in the wrong more often than not.

For example, Apple sued Microsoft, and even won, over the WIMP user interface. As we all know, WIMP was developed by Xerox in Palo Alto, and Apple didn't have anything more than a handshake agreement with the Xerox people in Palo Alto (not corporate management) over licensing WIMP and other Xerox technology. OTOH they had a solid contract (Bill Gates is a very good businessman) with Microsoft to develop the first software for Lisa, and then Macintosh. This contract did in fact have a clause that gave Microsoft certain rights to the WIMP interface, not unlike how Intel's contract with AMD gave AMD rights to produce IA-32 CPUs.

In another case, Apple sued Amazon.com, claiming that they had sole ownership of the word "app" despite the fact that it has been a commonly used contraction of "applications" in the English speaking world for decades.

There's more quantity of cases than I care to try to fit into here, but all that needs to be done is to examine the quality of Apple's lawsuits, and it quickly becomes apparent that they're slinging mud in the hopes that enough sticks to favor them.
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Old July 15th, 2012, 02:31 PM   #113 (permalink)
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Greetings Early . . .
Hi Bob, long time no see! Hope all is well with you.

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Let me suggest this and please feel free to correct my reasoning.
Oooooooookay, LoL

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There are vast numbers of Android phones on the market. Hundreds arrive every year to replace the hundreds that depart the scene.
You're referring to models - it's quite a bit less than hundreds per year, or we'd be building device subforums around here at a much higher rate.

But I take your point - Android has many models and they tend to have a regular annual product roll-over, much like any other line of consumer products - HDTVs, cars, etc etc.

Quote:
There is only one (OK, we have the 4 and 4S, so perhaps there are two) iPhone(s).
Wait, that's the first time I've seen you confuse facts.

Until the iP4s intro, the iPhone had its regular annual model roll-over, just like the others. Only AT&T was continuing to sell old inventory of the iP3gs along with refurbs - I checked, there was no place else in the world to buy them otherwise late into the iP4 life.

At the last iPhone keynote conference, Tim Cook shocked some analysts (not me, I'd predicted it for months on our forums) and announced that the iP4 wasn't rolling away, it was staying current and the iP3gs was also staying in regular supply.

So, if you go to the Apple Store there are not perhaps two, there are definitely 3 models presented to the consumer (and we'll forgo the memory variations).

Apple turned at that point from a single model into a model line - commensurate with most all successful consumer products, Android included.

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Apple might have a smaller market share, but when one company has 34% of the total market, I should think that says something.
And it does. It says that consumers have approved of the product, it reflects that two years ago when people were laughing at the idea that all Android could ever possibly overtake the iPhone that it at one point held full market dominance and it says that people will continue to find it a viable choice.

It says nothing about why I posted the article though. I posted the article to simply provide a rebuttal at face value to the title of this thread, namely, ICS: This is why Apple iPhone trumps Android.

Because the days of the iPhone trumping Android are over in the marketplace.

Quote:
When the iPhone 5 arrives, I am betting the numbers you posted will change and in Apple's favor. Then perhaps some Android phone will arrive that captures the public's attention and Apple will slip.
Can't argue with the normal trend in product sales during model turnovers for consumer goods.

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Android holds the lead (in my opinion) not because it is better, but because you can get an Android phone for free or almost no cost from hundreds of places.
Dr. Demming, the prophet of statistical process control and the guy who taught the Japanese how to build and compete in industry, would have a field day with that remark, and it's where I'll focus because he couldn't make it on account of being among the unliving.

As Dr. Demming would ask - what does it mean, not because it is better?

Do statistics and process observations provide any insight?

Yes. Yes, they do.

Android seems to be better at market growth looking at the last two years. Android seems to be better at offering a wider selection of models than iPhone. Android seems to be better at offering a wider selection of prices within its model range than iPhone. Android seems to be better at offering features to fill market segments not address by iPhone (qwerty models, removable battery models, sd card models, screen size models, and design models).

So, that leaves us with appears to the obvious meaning by context that you had - not because Android is technically better.

And technically better can either mean by features or by quality (a binary according to the Carnegie Mellon Institute's IBM Fellows) or by the statistics I've already covered or by consumer satisfaction.

And all of the components of technically better listed above (did I miss any?) can be measured, and I believe have been measured.

So, really, you've asked your own question - what does it mean, not because Android is better?

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And there are (I am guessing) more than 75 Android Phones currently on the market. They are sold off contract by Boost, VM and Cricket in my grocery store and the 7-11.
Not hundreds each year then, we agree. But let's say a hundred as an order of magnitude.

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Not so with the iPhone. Well, you can get one no contract which is why I am going to purchase one.
iPhone or some Android model? Either are available without contract.

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I will watch the news about sales of the 4/4s sold through Cricket and VM. I am willing to bet theyt sell fast. You can likely attribute some sales to the public's perception that an iPhone is the best phone.
I will allow that any consumer purchase is made because the consumer felt that the model chosen was the best for them at the time. The four parameters of demand, in order, are price, product, promotion and the marketing avenue.

Each individual responds to varying weights of those parameters and chooses what meets their personal demand, thereby perceiving that they purchased the best product, yes.

If you meant best technically I covered that.

Technical quality is a phrase often used because it's very seductive. It seems to have substance. It seems to mean something. It seems that everyone accepts that. Especially because at its root the phrase consists of two words that quantitative.

Put those two words together and the phrase describes something qualitative only. Yet many will never stop for the epiphany that what they assume is quantitative really isn't at all.

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I also wonder what would happen if Apple licensed iOS. Would there be as many Android OS phones or would we see dozens of iOS phones offered by other manufacturers?
An interesting hypothetical.

Please specify parameters of the hypothetical licensing terms and the economical climate and industrial supply makeup leading to the cultural change within Apple resulting in that drastic change in that management decision.

Without constraints on the hypothetical situation, I couldn't begin to venture a guess.

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I am convinced there would be fewer Android phones and more models running iOS. And if Android was not open source, would there be as many Android phones?
Perhaps you're right, I wouldn't say. And if Android were not open source, what would it be? Free? Licensed for pay?

Do other members of the Open Handset Alliance go with Android because of the legal protections of open source, or because it's free and Google has to do the majority of the heavy lifting? Honestly, I don't know.

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Again, clarifications are welcome.
Hope I've clarified why I posted the link, it's always a pleasure, Bob!
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Old July 15th, 2012, 02:38 PM   #114 (permalink)
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. That's not true.


Did you work at Palm? I worked for Freeborn & Peters, who represented Palm, Inc. up to and through 3com's purchase of the company. Small world. (Not germane to the topic however. IJS)
I worked at Megahertz in a garage with a handful of others. We grew, we were bought by USRobotics, then 3Com, then MSL. At some point, we manufactured 99.999 of all Palm products.
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Old July 15th, 2012, 02:39 PM   #115 (permalink)
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If you recall, Apple tried this once with their desktop OS and it was such a failure it nearly brought the company to it's knees. It is not and never will be their business model.
I vaguely remember Apple Computer, Inc. thinking about licensing the OS to 3rd parties, but can't recall if they went through with it. I do recall Apple suing Franklin and other companies over their use of parts of the Apple 2 ROM, and more recently a company called Psystar for selling an IA-32/AMD-64 PC with OSX preinstalled.

Apple does have a well deserved reputation for being a control freak.
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Old July 15th, 2012, 02:45 PM   #116 (permalink)
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Not me, I flash my iPad at Starbucks. I do see plenty of Android phones at Dunkin' Donuts and McDonalds, however. Not sure what that means.
According to a recent survey, more Democrats got their coffee at Starbucks, and more Republicans got their coffee at Dunkin' Donuts. McDonald's is a favorite early morning hangout for old people who come for the "bottomless cup of coffee", and older people tend to be more conservative.

Make of that what you will.
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Old July 15th, 2012, 02:48 PM   #117 (permalink)
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I vaguely remember Apple Computer, Inc. thinking about licensing the OS to 3rd parties, but can't recall if they went through with it. I do recall Apple suing Franklin and other companies over their use of parts of the Apple 2 ROM, and more recently a company called Psystar for selling an IA-32/AMD-64 PC with OSX preinstalled.

Apple does have a well deserved reputation for being a control freak.
Macintosh clone - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I still have an old StarMax sitting around here somewhere. I bet if I plugged it in, It would still boot up System 8.5 (Which was the last OS it would run stably). They were capable and cheaper alternatives to Apple models, but it began to relegate the Macintosh line to a commodity item, not unlike PC's of the same era. Apple just wasn't ready for the low margin/high support/confusing variant issues associated with multiple independent manufacturers.
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Old July 15th, 2012, 02:51 PM   #118 (permalink)
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@Bob Yes Android has a vast amount of handset to choose from compare to Apple but we all know Samsung Galaxy s2 single phone model outsells or compete with the iphone 4,4s on the same level.
 
Old July 15th, 2012, 02:57 PM   #119 (permalink)
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I worked at Megahertz in a garage with a handful of others. We grew, we were bought by USRobotics, then 3Com, then MSL. At some point, we manufactured 99.999 of all Palm products.
Wow, that's cool! I didn't know much about Megahertz, but I remember driving by USRobotics (on I-90 IIRC) and thinking they must supply automakers. (Car-making robots were big news around that time.) Years later I was a frequent USR modem buyer. I still keep a couple of old USR ISDN boxes and the ubiquitous 3C905 NICs handy just in case.
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Old July 15th, 2012, 03:06 PM   #120 (permalink)
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I hate Apple, I really do. They are an arrogant, fanbois company that are experts at marketing. However, when you compare Android vs Apple the Apple phones win by a mile.
Why?
Certainly not functionality.
Certainly not choice.
Certainly not bang for the buck.

And many other factors that Apple ends up being behind on the curve with.

However: Apple wins overall because of consistency. The apps work. The updates work, within reason. Yes they lock you in to using iTunes and so forth but really what is better, being locked into a single application, like Siri or iTunes that actually works or 5 different applications that semi work?

Look at Android for example.
Back up your phone?
Verizon, Google, Motorola back up?
Confusing.
Voice control?
Scattered all over the place and one doesn't talk to the other.

Contacts?
Do you want to create a new contact with Outlook, Lotus notes, Phone etc?

ICS lowers the bar even lower IMHO.
It has so many problems, like dim notification icons.
Who approved this?
Apple would NEVER release crap like this.

Say what you will about Apple, I will probably agree with most of it, but we can't deny that Apple sets the standard. I'm dumping my Razr maxx as soon as the new iPhone is released, maybe earlier because I have had it with this inconsistent piece of trash.
Yea, with Apple you do it their way or it's the highway, but honestly I would rather have something that works one single way than something that has 18 different ways of doing things none of which really works well.
Man I saw sooo many incorrect statements it ain't even funny lbvs smh lol my ns4g so called just works too this is my signal most of the time
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Old July 15th, 2012, 05:25 PM   #121 (permalink)
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@steveo42 -
I rooted my phone to get rid of most of the apps you desire.

Yes, ICS can be inconsistent. I had it briefly on the Nexus S, and it was no problem.
Some apps are flaky on the Acer A500 - but they weren't written for a tablet or the maker is just trying to catch up. Everyone screamed about not getting an update as soon as it was released. Some impatient ones hacked ICS on the phone.

Android is still dealing with carriers and tablet makers, and all are wanting something different to increase profits. All this junk has to be accommodated, so patience is a virtue. If you wait, most of the bugs will be fixed by that time. Acer is still updating tablets to ICS. It's the price we pay for our favorite OS. I'm inclined to pay that price. Newer isn't always better if it has been rushed into production.
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Old July 15th, 2012, 07:49 PM   #122 (permalink)
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To add some fuel to the fire here - I have to agree with the title of the post but because of a different reason. I have Galaxy S2 and really like it but ICS especially 4.0.3 was a horrible idea. It is unpolished buggy system that does not deserve a second look. The 4.0.4 on my brother's Galaxy Nexus is sooo much better.

Here is what Apple does well to my opinion. Marketing (yep they are gods). Make people even programmers think that this phone is better because of a half eaten apple logo - brilliant. Next - software and this is again particular to the user but their stuff works. Apps do not hang or make the iphone stuck - for example I tried starting the youtube app and it got stuck 5 times in a row from the home screen - I had to restart my phone to unstuck it (that should not happen). Operating system and release of updates - It does help that there is one authority on releasing the updates because they deliver bug fixes fast and you don't have carriers bottleneck everything.

Updates if you ask me for the older phones do not come fast enough - the custom roms on the Galaxy S2 are up to the current android version released by samsung which is 4.0.3 and google is already on 4.1 - really - really now?

Android has very many good sides like customization ability beyond belief but seriously crappy software gives the community a really bad name almost as bad as the way Google released the Nexus 7. Software needs to have maybe a month cycle of approval and integration so at the end of month 2 OTA ---- yes that thing that updates your phone not KIES.
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Old July 15th, 2012, 10:06 PM   #123 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by alextop30 View Post

Next - software and this is again particular to the user but their stuff works. Apps do not hang or make the iphone stuck - for example I tried starting the youtube app and it got stuck 5 times in a row from the home screen - I had to restart my phone to unstuck it (that should not happen).
Camera freezes on my 4s - MacRumors Forums

Music App Lag - MacRumors Forums

iPhone 4S won't play a lot of music - MacRumors Forums

Sound stopped working on iPhone!! - MacRumors Forums

iPhone 4S YouTube Problem - MacRumors Forums

MacRumors Forums - View Single Post - No sound out of ear piece.

iPhone Bugs - MacRumors Forums

MacRumors Forums - View Single Post - iPhone Bugs

MacRumors Forums - View Single Post - iPhone Bugs

MacRumors Forums - View Single Post - Problem setting up Yahoo mail on iPhone

MacRumors Forums - View Single Post - Problem setting up Yahoo mail on iPhone

I will stop with just these links. For the iPhone bugs link...look at the last few pages for the more recent iPhone models.....

Most of the ones not about YouTube are from the first page of the trouble shooting section.

The iPhone has issues too with software..... IMO...its really no different than any other mobile OS and issues.
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Old July 15th, 2012, 10:15 PM   #124 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by jroc View Post
Camera freezes on my 4s - MacRumors Forums

Music App Lag - MacRumors Forums

iPhone 4S won't play a lot of music - MacRumors Forums

Sound stopped working on iPhone!! - MacRumors Forums

iPhone 4S YouTube Problem - MacRumors Forums

MacRumors Forums - View Single Post - No sound out of ear piece.

iPhone Bugs - MacRumors Forums

MacRumors Forums - View Single Post - iPhone Bugs

MacRumors Forums - View Single Post - iPhone Bugs

MacRumors Forums - View Single Post - Problem setting up Yahoo mail on iPhone

MacRumors Forums - View Single Post - Problem setting up Yahoo mail on iPhone

I will stop with just these links.For the iPhone bugs link...look at the last few pages for the more recent iPhone models.....

Most of the ones not about YouTube are from the first page of the trouble shooting section.

The iPhone has issues too with software.....
Ok I think I kind of misspoke - just works is a bad statement. What I mean was that it seems everything is quite a bit smoother and there does not seem to be big problems with the operating system like the version Samsung released 4.0.3 I write a lot in that forum and there have been many many people that wanted to go back to gingerbread because of what ICS does not have to offer. I still get occasional supidity when it comes to lunching some of the apps. I really hope that a 4.0.4 rom will come along or maybe even Jellybean and would fix things.

The other big thing is that OTA needs to be turned back on cough cough Samsung.
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Old July 15th, 2012, 10:16 PM   #125 (permalink)
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One thing that I think Apple does better than Google and Android is marketing.
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Old July 15th, 2012, 10:18 PM   #126 (permalink)
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For some perspective:

1. The primary reason why Android is in the lead in terms of market share is because Google was a fast follower or copier, depending on who you ask. They knew that getting behind wasn't an option, especially since Apple was first to market. It helped that Schmidt "the mole" sat on Apple's board. Ever wondered why Google's tablet strategy has been relatively non-existent before the release of the Nexus 7? Could Jobs' decision to keep the iPad a secret from Schmidt made the difference?

2. Google is desperate to be in the same league as Apple & Microsoft. The problem is, it's essentially a one-trick pony - an ad peddler. The only way it can compete is to use monopolistic profits from search & offer its services for free, in the process attempting to kill the paid software model.

3. Google hates patents because it hinders innovation, yet its search algorithm is patented to the bones. The same way it calls Android open source, when in fact it's "open source as we see fit".

4. Do you think the Android licensees are happy with the current state of affairs? Of course not. They're spending so much on either litigating others or defending themselves. That's what happens when the software provider refuses to provide support because it thinks IPs are useless if they're owned by others. Do you honestly believe that if MS had a legitimate mobile OS back then that these OEMs would pick Android?

5. Android has to be litigated to level the playing field. Google has to learn that it's not above the law, & that it has to license the required technologies.
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Old July 15th, 2012, 11:02 PM   #127 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rhooke View Post
For some perspective:

1. The primary reason why Android is in the lead in terms of market share is because Google was a fast follower or copier, depending on who you ask. They knew that getting behind wasn't an option, especially since Apple was first to market. It helped that Schmidt "the mole" sat on Apple's board. Ever wondered why Google's tablet strategy has been relatively non-existent before the release of the Nexus 7? Could Jobs' decision to keep the iPad a secret from Schmidt made the difference?

2. Google is desperate to be in the same league as Apple & Microsoft. The problem is, it's essentially a one-trick pony - an ad peddler. The only way it can compete is to use monopolistic profits from search & offer its services for free, in the process attempting to kill the paid software model.

3. Google hates patents because it hinders innovation, yet its search algorithm is patented to the bones. The same way it calls Android open source, when in fact it's "open source as we see fit".

4. Do you think the Android licensees are happy with the current state of affairs? Of course not. They're spending so much on either litigating others or defending themselves. That's what happens when the software provider refuses to provide support because it thinks IPs are useless if they're owned by others. Do you honestly believe that if MS had a legitimate mobile OS back then that these OEMs would pick Android?

5. Android has to be litigated to level the playing field. Google has to learn that it's not above the law, & that it has to license the required technologies.
Some more perspective:

1. Google answered the iPhone faster than MS. MS wasnt fast enough to follow or copy Apple. MS shoulda threw out whatever thay had available of WP and just made it a work in progress. I have Android 2.0.1 on my Droid 1....and looking at Android then and now....MS....might... have been fine with whatever they had at the time.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windows_Phone#Development

2. Dont really have an opinion about it.

3. I dont really have an opinion, they did try to gift HTC patents to help fight Apple...

4. I have to quote this:
Quote:
Originally Posted by rhooke View Post
Do you honestly believe that if MS had a legitimate mobile OS back then that these OEMs would pick Android?
That alone says alot....lol. See also my response to #1.

5. Apple has been on the wrong side of a few patent cases in recent years. RIM just lost a case. Motorola is being sued by somebody. I think MS might have lost a case recently.

No one has a clean slate.
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Old July 16th, 2012, 12:00 AM   #128 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jroc View Post
Some more perspective:

1. Google answered the iPhone faster than MS. MS wasnt fast enough to follow or copy Apple. MS shoulda threw out whatever thay had available of WP and just made it a work in progress. I have Android 2.0.1 on my Droid 1....and looking at Android then and now....MS....might... have been fine with whatever they had at the time.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windows_Phone#Development

2. Dont really have an opinion about it.

3. I dont really have an opinion, they did try to gift HTC patents to help fight Apple...

4. I have to quote this:

That alone says alot....lol. See also my response to #1.

5. Apple has been on the wrong side of a few patent cases in recent years. RIM just lost a case. Motorola is being sued by somebody. I think MS might have lost a case recently.

No one has a clean slate.
Don't get me wrong, at this point, Android is already a good mobile OS. The problem is, I don't like it when people revere Google's creation as if it played by the rules. As much as people love to hate Apple, let's not forget that this company made mobile mainstream - palatable to the technology-averse folks. I'm not saying Apple invented the technologies they used, but apart from having the decency to license those they needed, they provided the blueprint on how to integrate these technologies into a successful device.

Just to answer your points:

1. Well, like I've said, if Google played by the rules, & without the mole's help, it couldn't have followed/copied that fast. This could have given MS some breathing room for sure.

3. Deemed illegal by the courts, & I'm quite sure HTC pressed Google to do so.

5. Yes, no one has a clear slate. But if you ask me, in the mobile space, Google has the dirtiest.
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Old July 16th, 2012, 12:41 AM   #129 (permalink)
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Schmidt had zero access to iPhone design or planning details.

The meme that he was a mole has been debunked in spades repeatedly. Note the choice of the word debunked because there was no truth to that wonderful Apple comment.

Read up on who Andy Rubin is and his history if you want to know where Android came from.

And when it first launched, we weren't looking at the iPhone - we were all asking why they were moving in to the same space as OpenMoko.

PS - Schmidt played by the rules, so did Google.

Claims of iPhone copying are simply an untrue urban myth.
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Old July 16th, 2012, 12:57 AM   #130 (permalink)
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Apple co founder likes android.
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Old July 16th, 2012, 01:11 AM   #131 (permalink)
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Andy Rubin worked for Apple:

Quote:
Android and Mr. Rubin's relevant background does not start, as HTC would like the Commission to believe, with his work at General Magic or Danger in the mid-1990s. In reality, as the evidence revealed at the hearing, Mr. Rubin began his career at Apple in the early 1990s and worked as a low-level engineer specifically reporting to the inventors of the '263 [realtime API] patent at the exact time their invention was being conceived and developed. [...] It is thus no wonder that the infringing Android platform used the claimed subsystem approach of the '263 patent that allows for flexibility of design and enables the platform to be "highly customizable and expandable" as HTC touts. [...] While Mr. Rubin's inspiration for the Android framework may not be directly relevant to the pending petitions for review, that HTC felt compelled to distort this history is illustrative of the liberties it takes in attacking the ALJ's [initial determination] and the substantial evidence supporting the ALJ's findings.
Source: FOSS Patents: Apple to ITC: Andy Rubin got inspiration for Android framework while working at Apple, hence infringes an Apple API patent

Regarding your claim that "...has been debunked in spades repeatedly."

Here's a piece from Forbes: You The Jury: Is Google's Schmidt Guilty Or Innocent Of Stealing From Apple? - Forbes
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Old July 16th, 2012, 04:42 AM   #132 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by alextop30 View Post
I really hope that a 4.0.4 rom will come along or maybe even Jellybean and would fix things.

The other big thing is that OTA needs to be turned back on cough cough Samsung.
Can't tell wether or not you flash custom roms.... If you do, there are 4.0.4 roms available, hell there is an alpha stage jelly bean ROM available!

Personally with stock ics on s2, with o2, I had no problems at all, also been fine with the majority of custom roms!
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Old July 16th, 2012, 05:32 AM   #133 (permalink)
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Let me put it like this :

iOS is like living in Pakistan and Android is like living in Us. :/
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Old July 16th, 2012, 10:20 AM   #134 (permalink)
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Let me put it like this :

iOS is like living in Pakistan and Android is like living in Us. :/
So what you're saying is that IOS users live in a world where monkey crotch is banned. Interesting.
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Old July 16th, 2012, 10:48 AM   #135 (permalink)
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Can't tell wether or not you flash custom roms.... If you do, there are 4.0.4 roms available, hell there is an alpha stage jelly bean ROM available!

Personally with stock ics on s2, with o2, I had no problems at all, also been fine with the majority of custom roms!
On the contrary the only reason I am still with ICS is custom dark side rom. Yes I do love my android and I do take advantage of it. The point is for the t989 variant of galaxy s2 there is no 4.0.4 I am guessing other than cynogen (I don't actually know what version cm9 is) and no jellybean alpha for it yet (otherwise I would be enjoying that jelly!) anyway I just wanted to add the way I see things and I am not moving to the iphone because there are so many things that android does better that I am simply not willing to sacrifice. My programmer friend bought a new iphone and it just looks stupid to me the only thing I don't have is the program called face time but I do have Skype so there. Android has a few things that need ironing out like the update schedule of the operating system but anything other than that it is pretty much enough for me.
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Old July 16th, 2012, 11:18 AM   #136 (permalink)
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One thing that I think Apple does better than Google and Android is marketing.
You know, I think that people have been assuming that to be true for so long that most of us have stopped checking to see if it's still that way. Can you recall what Apple's latest ad campaign is? I sure can't. But I can remember Samsung's absolutely brilliant ad campaign for the SII!

The mistake you're making is comparing Apples to Googles when the actual comparison is between Apple and the Android phone manufacturers + service providers. Obviously the non-Apple half has quite a bit of width and breadth, so the skill at advertising varies widely. Not that it really matters, because all the work is done by ad agencies anyway. They are the ones with the skill.

To be fair to Google, they have been hard at work in establishing the little green Android Robot device (that's the technical term for it) as a widely recognized symbol. No, not as wide as Apple's logo, but then again Apple has had 35 whole years vs. 5 for Google. Considering that, Google has made excellent progress in brand recognition.
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Old July 16th, 2012, 12:47 PM   #137 (permalink)
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^^^ marketing ad.. by apple..

bunches and bunches on siri.. with big Hollywood celebs.. how it can be a funny companion and assistant.
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Old July 16th, 2012, 12:53 PM   #138 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rhooke View Post
Don't get me wrong, at this point, Android is already a good mobile OS. The problem is, I don't like it when people revere Google's creation as if it played by the rules. As much as people love to hate Apple, let's not forget that this company made mobile mainstream - palatable to the technology-averse folks. I'm not saying Apple invented the technologies they used, but apart from having the decency to license those they needed, they provided the blueprint on how to integrate these technologies into a successful device.

Just to answer your points:

1. Well, like I've said, if Google played by the rules, & without the mole's help, it couldn't have followed/copied that fast. This could have given MS some breathing room for sure.

3. Deemed illegal by the courts, & I'm quite sure HTC pressed Google to do so.

5. Yes, no one has a clear slate. But if you ask me, in the mobile space, Google has the dirtiest.
there were other smartphones before iphone and google!!

very true..everyone borrows ideas and expands on it. there were cell phones that had smart functions back in the 1990s.
and everyone has been adding and adding and expanding on it..

the problem is.. apple copies, patents the copy, then sues everyone including the originator.
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Old July 16th, 2012, 01:36 PM   #139 (permalink)
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Smartphones )and PDA's before that) existed way before the iPhone. The iPhone may have upped the game, but it wasn't "the originator" that everyone followed. It's every bit as derivative as every other device on the market, copying from those that came before it. It's a good product, but claims of it being original or first are the product of it's SJ reality distortion field blinded fanboi base and a large part of the tech "journalism" base that follow Apple marketing commands like sheep.
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Old July 16th, 2012, 01:58 PM   #140 (permalink)
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I won't even dignify that Forbes muckraking sensationalism with a comment. If that's what passes for objective evidence for you, I can't help.

The idea that Schmidt was a mole has been debunked, it wasn't so, it never happened.

Regarding Florian Mueller's comments, he also mis-reported what the judge presiding over the Oracle case actually thought, now didn't he?

And you're taking another sensationalist telling of the tale to establish that now, not only was Schmidt the mole, so was Andy Rubin. (And where did Andy work before all of that? And who got ideas from whom? Dig deeper.)

I can't help other than to suggest that I support your right to your opinions.
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Old July 16th, 2012, 03:57 PM   #141 (permalink)
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^If iOS apps, just worked, if iOS, just worked, if the iPhone, just worked.....iPhone troubleshooting sections would be very small.

So I never understand why the "just works" mantra keep coming up.
It's because they don't tell you. Android pops up dialog boxes that tell you an error has occurred. iOS doesn't bother. It just closes and makes you open it again. The trick is, the user isn't sure if it was the device or they hit something. Did you ever hit the home button on an iOS device? It dumps out of everything and scoots you back to the home screen. So maybe you hit the home button. Or maybe it crashed. Who knows?

I mean, it just works, right? Gotta be user error, right?
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Old July 16th, 2012, 04:58 PM   #142 (permalink)
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^^^ marketing ad.. by apple..

bunches and bunches on siri.. with big Hollywood celebs.. how it can be a funny companion and assistant.
Hey, I've seen those!

Proves my point. I've seen them often, and even interested in a couple (did this star murder their personal assistant is the usual question), I don't remember the Apple part at all. Apple fail.
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Old July 16th, 2012, 05:05 PM   #143 (permalink)
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On the contrary the only reason I am still with ICS is custom dark side rom. Yes I do love my android and I do take advantage of it. The point is for the t989 variant of galaxy s2 there is no 4.0.4 I am guessing other than cynogen (I don't actually know what version cm9 is) and no jellybean alpha for it yet (otherwise I would be enjoying that jelly!) anyway I just wanted to add the way I see things and I am not moving to the iphone because there are so many things that android does better that I am simply not willing to sacrifice. My programmer friend bought a new iphone and it just looks stupid to me the only thing I don't have is the program called face time but I do have Skype so there. Android has a few things that need ironing out like the update schedule of the operating system but anything other than that it is pretty much enough for me.
Apologies, I have an international version, and it has several 4.0.4 roms and like I said, an alpha jelly bean ROM...

Jelly BeanNexuS OTA port (AOSP Logcat Added) - xda-developers
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Old July 16th, 2012, 05:09 PM   #144 (permalink)
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I have been an android user since the summer of 2010 (htc evo 4g). And I have had many androids since then. I got an iphone 4s through a local trade a 4 months ago and it sat in its box for a month, I finally decided to try it out.

It's not "the greatest phone ever", but its not the worst either. iOS is much smoother running the android IMHO. And something that has pissed me off about what Android has been doing as of late is they have made it a real bitch to watch firstrowsports from your phone, it just seems like they have locked down more things. Then phones shipping with locked bootloaders and stuff like that has really turned me sour on android.

This iphone has so many cool things/apps you can use if you're jailbroken. Such as iAppcracker. But I do still love my android and I switch back and fourth often...I do think I may stick with the iphone 5 when it comes out (it sucks not having 4g speed).

But I still need to mess with an one x or the sg3 (or any other android phone that comes out between now and the ip5 release) before I would say for sure that I would change.


And as far as ICS, that has really pissed me off. At least when apple releases a new iOS it isn't like how it is for android, the rezound was supposed to be one of the first ICS phones....still nothing. And yes I know its verizons fault, but at the end of the day I still don't have an official ics on my phone. With apple the carriers dont get in the way of a new iOS, its just "ok here it is"
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Old July 16th, 2012, 05:10 PM   #145 (permalink)
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I won't even dignify that Forbes muckraking sensationalism with a comment.
As we've seen with that other forbes.com piece is "jack of all trades, master of none" in action. Journalists without a "beat" try (with varying levels of success) to become knowledgeable overnight about the story they're covering. Traders try (with virtually no success) to become knowledgeable overnight about the company that they're interested in gambling on. Journalists covering trading try hard, but can't manage to learn a darn thing, from what I've seen.

Malcolm Forbes was an icon of business journalism. The website bearing his last name seems to be relying exclusively on the Forbes name, and doesn't cut it as a journalistic entity IMO.
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Old July 16th, 2012, 05:24 PM   #146 (permalink)
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iOS is much smoother running the android IMHO.
Could you expound that for me please? I'd like to have a more complete Idea of what you're describing to compare it with something else. (Can't tell you first because I don't want to bias the answer.)


Quote:
And something that has pissed me off about what Android has been doing as of late is they have made it a real bitch to watch firstrowsports from your phone, it just seems like they have locked down more things. Then phones shipping with locked bootloaders and stuff like that has really turned me sour on android.
Why would you blame Android for that? Android is an operating system, not a djinn that can think for itself and do mischief. Why don't you blame the phone makers and (mostly) the cellular companies for doing what they did?


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And as far as ICS, that has really pissed me off.
Precisely what has you pissed off? Please expound.


Quote:
And yes I know its verizons fault, but at the end of the day I still don't have an official ics on my phone. With apple the carriers dont get in the way of a new iOS, its just "ok here it is"
How is it Verizon's fault? What do you mean by that?
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Old July 16th, 2012, 05:42 PM   #147 (permalink)
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Good job mods whoever moved this from the RAZR section to The Lounge...

I KNEW when I last responded the thread shifted from ICS to Apple vs. Google....lol.
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Old July 16th, 2012, 07:28 PM   #148 (permalink)
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I KNEW when I last responded the thread shifted from ICS to Apple vs. Google....lol.
Was it ever about ICS? Nobody answered my question about just that.
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Old July 16th, 2012, 07:44 PM   #149 (permalink)
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Could you expound that for me please? I'd like to have a more complete Idea of what you're describing to compare it with something else. (Can't tell you first because I don't want to bias the answer.)


Why would you blame Android for that? Android is an operating system, not a djinn that can think for itself and do mischief. Why don't you blame the phone makers and (mostly) the cellular companies for doing what they did?


Precisely what has you pissed off? Please expound.


How is it Verizon's fault? What do you mean by that?


I think with everything I offered my opinion about that I expounded on why I felt that way afterwards, but I have a feeling you may have been irratated with my post and you may have skimmed over my reasoning so I will respond...


1. Why I think iOS is smoother than Android-

I am currently using an HTC Rezound (been on stock and rooted roms), I think iOS is smoother because I, for one use my internet browser alot for work related things and I find that too often there seems to be delays with a page loading, and it also seems like it will often select the wrong things on a page, so then I will have to go back and zoom in on what I wanted to select to begin with.

2. Why I am pissed about not being able to watch firstrowsports-

It has been well known that (one) of androids big advantage over the iphone is adobe flash, well since the ICS update they have embeded code into the browser to identify streaming of video within the browser so it will not load (not without rooting,finding a hacked version of adobe flash, then getting dolphin browser and using it to watch video on website)

With my iphone I load up skyfire and wait for it to load. <Much easier than everything I mentioned above.


3. Why has ICS pissed me off?-

I did answer that right afterwards with why, so I will combine this answer with question 4. ICS pissed me off because the rezound was touted as "one of the first phones to be upgradable to ICS" that has been 7 months ago. It is well known that verizon has held back the release of ICS, and since then there has been a new operating system released "Jelly Bean". As I said earlier, when apple releases an updated iOS it is for every iphone. Unlike android updates which go to select phones, while many are left without.


And just for me to add on, I am scared to buy another android phone because they drop in value quickly, and the support for them drops quickly. While iphones from 4 years ago can still get iOS updates. Android phones (top of the line ones at the time) from 3 years ago go for $50 now, iphones from then go for $150. Its not just because of the "fanbois" part of it is because they are still supported.



Anything else?
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Old July 16th, 2012, 07:48 PM   #150 (permalink)
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the problem is.. apple copies, patents the copy, then sues everyone including the originator.
Or:
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