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Old September 14th, 2012, 10:59 AM   #1 (permalink)
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Default Fragmentation arguments

Just to let you know, in any discussion or argument that any of you have with me, if you use the word "fragmentation", I will take that as all (past, present and future) points raised in the given thread by you as null and void. Instant victory for me.

You have fair warning

Edit, I thought I'd put a bit of my reasoning behind this.

Yes, different manufacturers build different devices, with different versions of Android on them, depending on when they were released. Expecting every Android device to have the specification to support every new release of Android is ridiculous.

If Android were made to support all past hardware specifications, it would be stale. It would not be innovating as technology moves on.

Yes, different manufacturers update to the latest incremental release as and when they can, not all in unison. So What?!

Yes, some manufacturers will stop giving you updates at some point. So What? Everything else does too.

People too often seem to raise "Android is fragmented" in discussions without understanding why or what that actually means. Its not a valid point to raise. Please stop!


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Old September 15th, 2012, 11:10 PM   #2 (permalink)
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To add to what you are saying, the word is legacy.

Example: At this time, Honeycomb is the legacy version of Android's Tablet OS. ICS is as well. Hell, for that matter so is Gingerbread and Froyo, though those versions were never truly intended for the tablet space.

Point being, fragmentation/fork should point to a recent issue which occurred between Acer and Google, in the name of the Open Handset Alliance. Acer tried to bring to market a potential fork of Android. Because the OHA (to which Acer belongs) has set a standard minimum base of how Android must be built (i.e. use the Dalvik Virtual Machine), Acer was blocked from fragmenting Android. Amazon has fragmented/forked Android, but does not belong to the OHA, so no harm, no foul and more power to it.

But no, fragmentation of the OS doesn't really exist, within the confines by which most people describe it, legacy exists. Just as it does with all OS's.

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Old September 15th, 2012, 11:47 PM   #3 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by jmartino5920 View Post
To add to what you are saying, the word is legacy.

Example: At this time, Honeycomb is the legacy version of Android's Tablet OS. ICS is as well. Hell, for that matter so is Gingerbread and Froyo, though those versions were never truly intended for the tablet space.

Point being, fragmentation/fork should point to a recent issue which occurred between Acer and Google, in the name of the Open Handset Alliance. Acer tried to bring to market a potential fork of Android. Because the OHA (to which Acer belongs) has set a standard minimum base of how Android must be built (i.e. use the Dalvik Virtual Machine), Acer was blocked from fragmenting Android. Amazon has fragmented/forked Android, but does not belong to the OHA, so no harm, no foul and more power to it.

But no, fragmentation of the OS doesn't really exist, within the confines by which most people describe it, legacy exists. Just as it does with all OS's.

jmar
I found an article this afternoon that touched upon Google not supporting or being mad at a well known Chinese e-commerce site or portal. Something like that.

I should have saved the link. Apparently this company is trying to release a new OS and device. Not a version of Android, but something new. If you can call their OS which is (apparently) based on Android to some extent. Or not, I do not really know.

I'll try to find the link. Wait, here it is (was not sure I could find it):

Alibaba: Google just plain wrong about our OS | Mobile - CNET News

Apparently, Alibaba is considered to be the Google of China. I use to find suppliers through their site and I was not aware that they were creating a new OS.

From the link:

"But Spelich told CNET in an e-mail that Aliyun is "not a fork. Ours is built on open-source Linux." And he added that Aliyun "has our own applications. [It's] designed to run cloud apps designed in our own ecosystem. [It] can run some but not all Android apps."

"He also accused the Android ecosystem of being closed and restrictive."


"Aliyun is an open-source based OS that is also an open ecosystem that allows others to host their mobile-enabled Web sites in our cloud and we make those Web sites available to users who use Aliyun OS phones. So we are an ecosystem that includes other Internet companies, whereas Android does not because it provides apps through downloads. It's the crux of the whole cloud vs. app debate. Cloud is open, apps system is closed because it is controlled by the operator of the apps marketplace. So you see: Two competing ecosystems, one that's open through the cloud, the other is closed and restricts users to only the apps that they want you to see"


Not sure it will sell, but China is a huge market; it is larger than our market. I do know that Apple wants to invade China and I am sure Google wants to as well. One will be the invading army and the other will supply munitions. Both want to lead and control because it represents vast wads of money and I think with the amount of money at stake, we will be entertained for decades to come.



I am reminded of an old curse: "May you live in interesting times."
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Old September 16th, 2012, 12:20 AM   #4 (permalink)
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Just to let you know, in any discussion or argument that any of you have with me, if you use the words "apple innovation", I will take that as all (past, present and future) points raised in the given thread by you as null and void. Instant victory for me.

You have fair warning
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Old September 16th, 2012, 12:27 AM   #5 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Bob Maxey View Post
I found an article this afternoon that touched upon Google not supporting or being mad at a well known Chinese e-commerce site or portal. Something like that.

I should have saved the link. Apparently this company is trying to release a new OS and device. Not a version of Android, but something new. If you can call their OS which is (apparently) based on Android to some extent. Or not, I do not really know.

I'll try to find the link. Wait, here it is (was not sure I could find it):

Alibaba: Google just plain wrong about our OS | Mobile - CNET News

Apparently, Alibaba is considered to be the Google of China. I use to find suppliers through their site and I was not aware that they were creating a new OS.

From the link:

"But Spelich told CNET in an e-mail that Aliyun is "not a fork. Ours is built on open-source Linux." And he added that Aliyun "has our own applications. [It's] designed to run cloud apps designed in our own ecosystem. [It] can run some but not all Android apps."

"He also accused the Android ecosystem of being closed and restrictive."


"Aliyun is an open-source based OS that is also an open ecosystem that allows others to host their mobile-enabled Web sites in our cloud and we make those Web sites available to users who use Aliyun OS phones. So we are an ecosystem that includes other Internet companies, whereas Android does not because it provides apps through downloads. It's the crux of the whole cloud vs. app debate. Cloud is open, apps system is closed because it is controlled by the operator of the apps marketplace. So you see: Two competing ecosystems, one that's open through the cloud, the other is closed and restricts users to only the apps that they want you to see"


Not sure it will sell, but China is a huge market; it is larger than our market. I do know that Apple wants to invade China and I am sure Google wants to as well. One will be the invading army and the other will supply munitions. Both want to lead and control because it represents vast wads of money and I think with the amount of money at stake, we will be entertained for decades to come.



I am reminded of an old curse: "May you live in interesting times."
Aliyuns market is mostly pirated software. That's part of the reason Google stopped Acer from allowing it.

Android police had a huge article on it today. I would suggest checking it out if you are interested in it
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Old September 16th, 2012, 12:42 AM   #6 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Rxpert83 View Post
Aliyuns market is mostly pirated software. That's part of the reason Google stopped Acer from allowing it.

Android police had a huge article on it today. I would suggest checking it out if you are interested in it
I have read several accounts and many people are confused. Several articles and several different accounts. Anyway, I thought on the surface, it was an interesting development.

What can Google dictate to Acer or anyone else? Are there rules that say my compiled version of Android can or cannot be used to do or not do this or that? I am sure there are rules in place, so I'll have a look see.
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Old September 16th, 2012, 01:06 AM   #7 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Maxey View Post
I have read several accounts and many people are confused. Several articles and several different accounts. Anyway, I thought on the surface, it was an interesting development.

What can Google dictate to Acer or anyone else? Are there rules that say my compiled version of Android can or cannot be used to do or not do this or that? I am sure there are rules in place, so I'll have a look see.
Start with the Open Handset Alliance. Find that Acer is a part of that alliance. Note that Acer, bound by it's membership to the OHA, may not create a fork of Android. Android iteration must meet certain minimum guidelines. Let us know your findings.

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Old September 16th, 2012, 01:23 AM   #8 (permalink)
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Aliyuns market is mostly pirated software. That's part of the reason Google stopped Acer from allowing it.

Android police had a huge article on it today. I would suggest checking it out if you are interested in it
I found the article and apparently, it has to do with compatibility not piracy. I would love to see the UI . . . any links or further data?

Apparently, Google wants to help these folks.

I did find this: "
Hey John Spelich -- We agree that the Aliyun OS is not part of the Android ecosystem and you're under no requirement to be compatible.
However, the fact is, Aliyun uses the Android runtime, framework, and tools. And your app store contains Android apps (including pirated Google apps). So there's really no disputing that Aliyun is based on the Android platform and takes advantage of all the hard work that's gone into that platform by the OHA.
So if you want to benefit from the Android ecosystem, then make the choice to be compatible. It's easy, free, and we'll even help you out. But if you don't want to be compatible, then don't expect help from OHA members that are all working to support and build a unified Android ecosystem."
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Old September 16th, 2012, 01:27 AM   #9 (permalink)
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yeah.. google is not Stopping Acer from releasing the phone with the new OS.

they are just saying.. Acer agreed to the OHA and the terms.
if you want out.. by not following the terms of the OHA.. Ok.. you are out of OHA.
JUST do not expect the any support or benefits of OHA.

i see nothing wrong with that.
if you dont want to be part of a group and support that group's terms for membership, then you are out. simple.

Acer can use android or any forked version.. it is open.
do anything they like. but you will not benefit from OHA.
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Old September 16th, 2012, 01:29 AM   #10 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by jmartino5920 View Post
Start with the Open Handset Alliance. Find that Acer is a part of that alliance. Note that Acer, bound by it's membership to the OHA, may not create a fork of Android. Android iteration must meet certain minimum guidelines. Let us know your findings.

jmar
There must be an accurate report somewhere. Or perhaps there is but it is getting confusing. Or because I have been without coffee for several hours, by brain stopped working and I am confused.

Perhaps it is the net or writers are using the Ctrl-A / Ctrl-C / Crtr-V writing technique sans proofreading.

I think if you use parts of Android you must try to be compatible. Even if you do not like Google, you must provide market access or your own market. This group wants people to keep everything in the clouds and apparently, no Android Market. If that is the case, the OS/Phone is doomed.

I do not think people will buy a phone with no market access.
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Old September 16th, 2012, 01:30 AM   #11 (permalink)
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yeah.. google is not Stopping Acer from releasing the phone with the new OS.

they are just saying.. Acer agreed to the OHA and the terms.
if you want out.. buy not following the terms of the OHA.. Ok.. you are out of OHA.

JUST do not expect the any support or benefits of OHA.
Seems fair to me.
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Old December 21st, 2012, 11:21 PM   #12 (permalink)
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Not sure it will sell, but China is a huge market; it is larger than our market.
It's a huge market, but AFAICT most people don't really like to pay for software.

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I do know that Apple wants to invade China and I am sure Google wants to as well.
Apple seems to be doing pretty well China already, although the iTunes Store doesn't have music or movies here. I think Google would like to do well here, but apparently they're unwilling to comply with Chinese internet laws. They have a small selection of services available at google.cn. However most of their services are blocked here. Whereas AFAIK Yahoo, Microsoft/Bing and Apple's online services are not.
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Old December 28th, 2012, 03:39 AM   #13 (permalink)
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I'm sure that someone will develop a defragmenter app...
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