okay so first off i am not a apple fanboy/isheep/i***/general idiot that doesnt understand android.
I was just curious what other people thought about android copying apple. I don't know the history of android, but the design, and a lot of OS basics seem to be similar. It seems as though android took iOS/iphone improved it and then apple copied them in return. So who is right and who is in the wrong?
Now if this is the dealio then why is apple suing everyone? i dont think ford has sued chevy because ford made the first automobile. I mean like its pathetic and desperate.
leading to my next point was the popular apple vs. samsung trial unfair? I know in other nations that samsung has won but people seem to care about good old (sarcastic) America. Look at the number of people in the US who have iphones like it or not most do, so was the jury basically brainwashed? unless they were 90 year old ladies who probably could care less.
and last is apples violence pointless? i mean they seem to be purist and like they promote peace but nope they are just assaulting it head on!
now is it sad that this is longer than the essay i have to write for english class? haha
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According to Wikipedia:
Android, Inc was formed in Oct 2003 and purchased by Google in Aug 2005, which is a nearly 2 years before iOS was reveled in Jan 2007.
Of course iOS was the first to market with the original iPhone in June 2007 while the first Android phone, the HTC Dream (or G1) was released in Oct 2008.
So the question is, what did the 'theoretical' Android OS look like in 2003 and 2005. Was it an icon/touch based OS or something else. If so, did Apple copy Android? It is more than likely a case of simultaneous invention. Where both companies were exclusively working on similar ideas at the same time.
It's obvious that Steve Jobs did not believe in simultaneous invention as he had vowed to destroy Android. Unfortunately, the stream of lawsuits from the Apple camp prove that a main legacy of one of the most inventive men of current times is a hatred of competition and wanton monopolist intentions.
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As far as I'm concerned, the first true smartphone that worked was the original Palm Treo. Out well before Apple Iphone. It did everything available at the time.
As far as I'm concerned, the first true smartphone that worked was the original Palm Treo. Out well before Apple Iphone. It did everything available at the time.
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Regarding the numbers of users, I actually just had to look this up for another thread. Android has a huge lead on iOS both in the states and worldwide.
In the us 52% of smart phones are androids and apple is around 32%.
The gap is even larger worldwide, with Apple getting about 14% of sales in EU. Android had 68%
Last edited by Rxpert83; October 7th, 2012 at 10:02 AM.
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I think some of the major issues are anti-comptitive. I question the correctness of some patents even having been issued.
The joke I guess is Apple acts like it invented the rectangle. Didn't Apple sue the Beatles over rights to the name Apple? Beatles pre date Apple by how many years?
I am not an Apple fan. They are to be blunt, corporate fascists.
So the question is, what did the 'theoretical' Android OS look like in 2003 and 2005. Was it an icon/touch based OS or something else. If so, did Apple copy Android? It is more than likely a case of simultaneous invention. Where both companies were exclusively working on similar ideas at the same time.
It's obvious that Steve Jobs did not believe in simultaneous invention as he had vowed to destroy Android. Unfortunately, the stream of lawsuits from the Apple camp prove that a main legacy of one of the most inventive men of current times is a hatred of competition and wanton monopolist intentions.
Are you asking if Android or Apple brought us a touch screen and icons first? Clarify, please.
We are icon driven. Not sure anyone should be called a copycat because they use icons. There is/was no other choice: put application icons on the little screen. Tap to launch.
I owned a HP Palmtop and a Vaden Clio and a Cassiopeia and countless Palm Pilots. All before the iDevice and Android.
And you are correct in saying Jobs wanted Android gone.
The joke I guess is Apple acts like it invented the rectangle. Didn't Apple sue the Beatles over rights to the name Apple? Beatles pre date Apple by how many years?
I am not an Apple fan. They are to be blunt, corporate fascists.
As I understand the story, Apple was sued by the Beatles/Apple Records Corporate over the name Apple. Apple was selling music through iTunes and there was concern that customers would become confused.
both are called Apple and both use an Apple as their logo.
Apple (the Beatles company) sells music and Apple the computer company also sells music so they must be the same.
Apparently, Apple computers made a deal not to sell music and went back on its promise.
At least that is the story as I understand it. I do not care enough to confirm, so corrections are welcome.
As for Apple being "corporate fascists" I disagree. Every cell phone company on the planet wants what Apple has and they will likely never have it. Corporations--large behemoths to mom and pop shops--want to make money and that is simply a fact.
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Regarding the numbers of users, I actually just had to look this up for another thread. Android has a huge lead on iOS both in the states and worldwide.
In the us 52% of smart phones are androids and apple is around 32%.
The gap is even larger worldwide, with Apple getting about 14% of sales in EU. Android had 68%
However, Android is not a company and you are talking about sales made by many manufacturers and hundreds of phones. Android/Google provides the OS free of charge to anyone that wants to use it.
Android might have a lead overall, but Apple is but one company with just three phones on the market (OK, and an iPad) and I think that says something.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Maxey
However, Android is not a company and you are talking about sales made by many manufacturers and hundreds of phones. Android/Google provides the OS free of charge to anyone that wants to use it.
Android might have a lead overall, but Apple is but one company with just three phones on the market (OK, and an iPad) and I think that says something.
Op said most people in the US have apple. I was refuting that point. Nothing more
Every cell phone company on the planet wants what Apple has and they will likely never have it. Corporations--large behemoths to mom and pop shops--want to make money and that is simply a fact.
Samsung already have what Apple has.
Last edited by lunatic59; October 7th, 2012 at 03:30 PM.
Every cell phone company on the planet wants what Apple has and they will likely never have it. Corporations--large behemoths to mom and pop shops--want to make money and that is simply a fact.
Samsung already have what Apple has.
I stand corrected. I do recall the long lines of Samesungers waiting in long lines for the Galaxy S III.
Apple holds a special place in the world of cell phones. Apple might have a smaller percentage of sales, but Samesong does not have the crazies, I'll tell you what.
Every cell company wants the fanboys and brand recognition Apple enjoys.
Last edited by lunatic59; October 7th, 2012 at 03:31 PM.
Reason: tag fixin'
In the popular forums sense of historical mis-quotes, no.
In the early prototype days, three form factors were considers - the Blackberry style, the touchscreen, and slider. The first Android G1 was a slider.
Design elements by each side looked at earlier smartphone products to move forward.
Android is a Linux smartphone, there were at least two of those, one popular, on the market before Android.
As noted earlier, there's only so much that can be done with touchscreens and both borrowed heavily from previous designs.
And if this thread devolves into yet another long, blow-by-blow rehash of the points over and over that's dominated every other thread when the word Apple is used, I'm either to going to delete those posts or lock this thread.
At some point, enough of that is enough, and I think we've heard all 12,000 words possible on how Apple is great because their customers stand in line - from both sides of the fence.
Cheers, thanks!
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Maxey
As I understand the story, Apple was sued by the Beatles/Apple Records Corporate over the name Apple. Apple was selling music through iTunes and there was concern that customers would become confused.
both are called Apple and both use an Apple as their logo.
Apple (the Beatles company) sells music and Apple the computer company also sells music so they must be the same.
Apparently, Apple computers made a deal not to sell music and went back on its promise.
That's what I've heard about the subject too. I also heard that was why it took so long for the Beatles to be on itunes. But I don't use itunes, so I don't know if the beatles are or are not on there, or for how long they have been available on itunes.
As far as who was copied.... I don't know. I don't know if anyone can know for sure. But that whole notification bar in Apple iOS sure reminds me of something I've seen somewhere else
But in all honesty, I think a little bit of 'copy' here and there is good for the consumer, and can often result in a better product.
but when lawsuits are as common as the cold, well, that's for another thread
If you want the truth, everything has copied something from someone else. Hell, Apple's computer OS is based fully on Linux.
Windows stole ideas from Apple.
Everyone stole ideas from IBM. IBM had the first OS made.
So meh.
And where did Linux come from? Linus took ideas from the OS he was using at the time. And even though Linux is open source, you are restricted. You must make your hard work available to others. So it is not free, exactly.
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Speaking from experience you can have all the irrefutable evidence in the world and still loose your case. I have no illusions of there ever being justice in the Apple lawsuits unless somebody succeeds in fixing our hopelessly broken legal system.
We know the patent system is screwed, the lawyers know the patent system is screwed, so do those that start the suits. There is no suit so outrageous that some judge in a lower court just might find for the plaintiff. For the plaintiff, it's a gamble that might pay off - or things get held in abeyance while suit is going on which gives the plaintiff time to try another tack.
As for the lawyers - why kill the goose that lays the golden eggs?
Interesting that he finally came out and said that it's time that they built phones.
Nokia must be thrilled. Watch for the Microsoft buy out there, something that I predicted when they got their Microsoft quisling, Elop, in to gut the company and run it into the ground.
Interesting that he finally came out and said that it's time that they built phones.
Nokia must be thrilled. Watch for the Microsoft buy out there, something that I predicted when they got their Microsoft quisling, Elop, in to gut the company and run it into the ground.
What I am seeing are articles contrasting Apple's old guard . . . Jobs, with the new leader, Cook. Seems there are many people glad Jobs is gone. Not dead, just gone. He was a tough guy to work with and some say quite unreasonable.
I read an article about how Jobs demanded Corning bring Gorilla glass out of the darkness and how he demanded Corning make so many tens of thousands of square feet of the stuff.
Now, Corning has a new profit center, even though the glass goes to China for final chemical processing to make it strong.
fortune did an article about Cook and his willingness to sit with employees in the Apple lunch room and shoot the you know what. Cook meets with big stock holders and Jobs did not.
I am wondering just how much of the Jobs mystique is true. My guess--as a person that did not read the book--is many Jobs stories will show up. I only hope they are fair. At the end of the day, whatever Jobs did, he did well.
Interesting that he finally came out and said that it's time that they built phones.
Nokia must be thrilled. Watch for the Microsoft buy out there, something that I predicted when they got their Microsoft quisling, Elop, in to gut the company and run it into the ground.
Here's an interesting article about Nokia. It's a shame.
I liked my C6. I liked the organization of Symbian, and there were instructions on how to root it. If you think Android is fragmented, Symbian was worse. You would have to search through a list of flavors to find what flavor of Symbian you had to install an app.
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Much more than a grain. I've several posts hereabouts citing and linking to specific documents on these cases. If you're not familiar, Groklaw's pj has been providing easy access to court documents, often with detailed analyses, for quite a while. I'd have to guess that's been on my regular reading list for around a dozen years. If you want a head start on news of legal shenanigans involving tech cases, pj is the one to read.
How would Nokia have fared had they kept their r&d staff and stayed the course with their own smartphone os? We'll never know now, but I feel that we consumers lost a valuable competitor.
I read an article the other day that said that at this point Google and Apple are spending more on legal fees than software r&d. I don't know where they got their numbers, so I don't know if the claim is true, but it's sad if it is.
I only added that about a grain of truth as I have been reading articles about any writer's shading/slanting of information. If the actual documents are posted rather than referred to then it's up to the reader of the original document to make up their own mind. I read stuff from Groklaw - but there are probably those individuals who think any publication that doesn't agree with a preconceived notion is a shill for the other side.
if a retrial... I sure hope the courts make the loser (apple) pay for all legal fees and cost for the original and 2nd trail.
I sure hope it is a huge amount .. so that big pocket companies (apple) think twice before suing for stupid stuff.
While it would be nice a retrial would not technically be the fault of Apple, Judge Koh allowed questionable happenings.
You really can't blame Apple lawyers for trying questionable practices the same as a pitcher who is getting calls off the plate will throw a bit farther outside.
While it would be nice a retrial would not technically be the fault of Apple, Judge Koh allowed questionable happenings.
You really can't blame Apple lawyers for trying questionable practices the same as a pitcher who is getting calls off the plate will throw a bit farther outside.
Apple started this circus.. By suing for crap patents.. And they know it is crap.
Lawyers will do what a paying client will pay for.
So if apple type clients don't get hit with some kind of big kick in the ass... Then others will roll the dice.. Wasting other people's time and money
I felt that this whole trial was a farce from day one. There are too many precedents about how things look for that to be anything but a nuisance, red herring or trial run type case.
Look at cars, appliances, other electronics. If one maker decides a fridge with rounded corners sells, and it does, then everyone makes a fridge with rounded corners.
You can only do so much to a hand-held before it isn't. There's a certain size limit. I've overheard a lot of questions to people that had Iphones, and no one EVER mentioned the case. Most seem to hide the case with some kind of protector anyway.
How many form factors can you have, anyway? Motorola tried a square format, I haven't seen the Charm for a while so I guess it was a bust. A triangle? Circle?
Can't imagine those very comfortable to hold.
Now had Apple started a suit over their "Retina" or something like that, the case would have had some merit.
Apple has lured one of Samsung's chip designers - now we might have a legitimate type suit. I'd rather not see one.
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Ok, let's skip the legalities of it all.
Apple came out with it in a big way, but Android perfected it.
Did they copy it; of course they did. Does it really matter to most folks; not much. I was concerned myself as I was contemplating buying a S3 after the verdict, but after a week or two, I have totally forgot and care even less.
Yes, Sammy got caught with his hands in the cookie jar, I'm just being real about it.
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Ok, let's skip the legalities of it all.
Apple came out with it in a big way, but Android perfected it.
Did they copy it; of course they did. Does it really matter to most folks; not much. I was concerned myself as I was contemplating buying a S3 after the verdict, but after a week or two, I have totally forgot and care even less.
Yes, Sammy got caught with his hands in the cookie jar, I'm just being real about it.
This is how technology works. Anyone that was alive 25+ years ago could have walked into any Kmart and seen prolly 30 different clock-radios on the shelf (yes at one time they were high tech).
I am pretty sure that someone somewhere had a patent on clock-radios but companies took the idea and made it their own without being sued out of business.
Would anyone really complain that one clock-radio 'copied' another back in the day? No, or there would have only been one brand on the shelf.
There is no doubt that Android/Samsung varied enough from iOS/Apple to be in the catagory of clock-radios.
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Sorry to say that's not right either. The notmePhone isn't based on UNIX® (that's how it's supposed to look, all caps) either. Check out Early's post.
Early did make one mistake. Mach is a microkernel, not a monolithic kernel. Microkernel architectures were all the rage in academia in the '80s and '90s, but never lived up to the promises that their developers made. By using loadable kernel modules, monolithic kernel designs accomplished many of the goals of microkernel designs without the performance penalties. The products that claim to be microkernel-based are actually hybrid designs. So in the end there's very little difference between so-called microkernel designs and modern monolithic kernel designs.
Apple's IOS and OSX are based on XNU, not Mach, BTW.
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Wait, where's Microsoft in all of this? it was not long ago that people favored Apple (or Linux, despite how less-user-friendly it was in the early 1990s) because Microsoft hated any competition. their mantra was 'sue sue sue!'. their software closed up tight as a drum. now Apple's getting the flames, and it's always Apple Vs. Android, but NEVER does Windows Phone ever enter the debate, much less RIM/BlackBerry. what gives?
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Wait, where's Microsoft in all of this? it was not long ago that people favored Apple (or Linux, despite how less-user-friendly it was in the early 1990s) because Microsoft hated any competition. their mantra was 'sue sue sue!'. their software closed up tight as a drum. now Apple's getting the flames, and it's always Apple Vs. Android, but NEVER does Windows Phone ever enter the debate, much less RIM/BlackBerry. what gives?
If M$ ever irons out the impending Win8 fiasco they may be a major player in the Mobile wars, peeps love a common interface. M$ phones are quite different from Apple, but I also read more than once that both M$ and Apple want to kill Android/Google more than each other.
RiM is an interesting case in that they are the SationWagon of the Mobile world. At one time they 'owned' the smart phone market but didn't really give the customer he wanted. Enter Android/Apple and we became the MiniVans of mobile, exactly what the public wanted.
Sorry to say that's not right either. The notmePhone isn't based on UNIX® (that's how it's supposed to look, all caps) either. Check out Early's post.
Early did make one mistake. Mach is a microkernel, not a monolithic kernel.
Actually got tired of typing that on my phone.
I did Mach development for two years. As first released (escaped is a better word) from academia, it had a number of significant bugs (in the endlessly nested manifest constants) and was incapable of real time instrument support, areas that I fixed and modified.
Yes. Mach is a microkernel.
As Kernigan was fond of saying, any release from the typing mechanism is a benefit. It's one of the reasons that like so many who know its full background, I feel perfectly fine with the spelling cheats of unix, Unix and *nix.
And I assure you, OS X is based on the Mach MICROkernel. Before the public release (and in its first public incarnation), the Mach debug messages sang out loud and clear on any console bootup. I saw that quite often, with my own eyes. Pretty hard to mistake a Mach revision print statement.
WordPerfect couldn't do it - Open and Libre Office haven't done much. There are far more Windows PCs than Apple - Some work can be done on Ipad - but what about companies who won't use Apple's/MS/Android cloud? So somewhere all this info is going to have to go somewhere. Some can afford storing their own data, some may feel that the usual services aren't secure enough, plenty of reasons.
It probably will happen eventually, but in a way we don't expect.
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did android copy apple?
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