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Old January 2nd, 2013, 07:59 PM   #1 (permalink)
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Ubuntu Linux enters the smartphone wars | ZDNet

I wonder how this will pan out?

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Old January 2nd, 2013, 08:51 PM   #2 (permalink)
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Looks to me like a bit of a copy of android and windows 8.
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Old January 2nd, 2013, 08:55 PM   #3 (permalink)
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I just don't like the swipe it takes to access everything.
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Old January 2nd, 2013, 09:06 PM   #4 (permalink)
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i never did like Ubuntu as a desktop OS, so the idea of it on a mobile platform is a no-go for me personally. Ubuntu is Linux but it tries to make too many rules--1, you cannot be permenant root, 2, it has some weird security that doesn't let certain things happen, and 3, like Windows, it has a lifecycle that stops getting new apps and updates when a version is deemed too old (this can be months, like in Maverick Meerkat there is no more support, apps don't update, and the repos are crippled)
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Old January 2nd, 2013, 09:38 PM   #5 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nickdalzell View Post
i never did like Ubuntu as a desktop OS, so the idea of it on a mobile platform is a no-go for me personally. Ubuntu is Linux but it tries to make too many rules--1, you cannot be permenant root,
You can enable root login if you want, it's quite easy. I might be missing something here, but why would I want be permanent root? Any application can be made to run with root privileges from a normal user account anyway. "sudo".

KDE running as root....a subtle hint and reminder...be very careful or BOOM!!!

I believe this was Mandrake or Mandriva.

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2, it has some weird security that doesn't let certain things happen,
Don't know what those might be. Can you provide some details about this please.

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and 3, like Windows, it has a lifecycle that stops getting new apps and updates when a version is deemed too old (this can be months, like in Maverick Meerkat there is no more support, apps don't update, and the repos are crippled)
"repos are crippled?"

Every 6 months there's a new release, You want long term support and updates, use the LTS(Long Term Support) releases. 12.04 LTS "Precise" is supported until mid-2017. Non-LTS releases are supported for about two years. You can always upgrade a running install anyway, without having to delete and completely re-install the whole OS.
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Old January 2nd, 2013, 09:43 PM   #6 (permalink)
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i never did like Ubuntu as a desktop OS, so the idea of it on a mobile platform is a no-go for me personally.
Kubuntu is my preferred Linux distro. It's absolutely beautiful--and it works the way *I* want it to.

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Ubuntu is Linux but it tries to make too many rules--1, you cannot be permenant root,
At the risk of sounding like a broken record [I've touched on this subject in multiple other threads already], YOU'RE WRONG.

I am a 3-decade *nix user. I know *nix. And I know--because I do it EVERY SINGLE TIME I install *buntu (or any Linux distro)--that it's a SIMPLE matter to set up a root login. Period. End of discussion. Just because someone doesn't know it can be done, doesn't mean it can't be done.

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2, it has some weird security that doesn't let certain things happen
I don't know what you're referring to, but I'm guessing that, as above, you're unaware of how to do whatever it is. That doesn't mean it can't be done.

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3, like Windows, it has a lifecycle that stops getting new apps and updates when a version is deemed too old (this can be months, like in Maverick Meerkat there is no more support, apps don't update, and the repos are crippled)
Well, my mom's computer is still running Kubuntu 9.04 because I'm too lazy to upgrade it. Oh, it still notifies when there are updates that I should apply, but I rarely do.

But I digress. UNLIKE windows, you're not PAYING for new versions of *buntu, so who cares that its life cycle eventually comes to an end? Unless you're running some really ancient hardware, newer versions probably won't force you to buy new machines--you know, like windows does. If you're really set on sticking with ancient hardware, and then your *buntu version dies, no problem! Find a distro that's less resource intensive. I've recently discussed having settled on Bodhi Linux for a 6-year-old laptop that was CRAWLING after I upgraded its Kubuntu version one too many times. Now it's flying like it did when it was brand new!
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Old January 2nd, 2013, 09:47 PM   #7 (permalink)
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I've ran Linux (Ubuntu) for a while and I was kinda excited to see this! Will be interesting to see how things work out with this
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Old January 2nd, 2013, 09:48 PM   #8 (permalink)
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being a once big time Linux user, the concept of product lifecycles and expiry dates was dipping into Microsoft waters. Linux shouldn't be taking any cues from that 'other' system.

not sure what exactly it was but there was some weird security feature that disabled apps that required certain things. it's been a while, but that and being unable to login as root were deal breakers. oh sure i could modify it to force root login and even go to the CLI instead of X but still...should have had the option from the get-go.

as far as distros go i prefer more pure distros, the kind that don't default to X, or GDM, that allow you to toy around. Ubuntu seems like a distro for Windows converts. my preferred distros are Slackware and Debian based, with default CLI logins and use. if i want X, i startx
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Old January 2nd, 2013, 10:06 PM   #9 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by nickdalzell View Post
being a once big time Linux user, the concept of product lifecycles and expiry dates was dipping into Microsoft waters. Linux shouldn't be taking any cues from that 'other' system.
You've got it backwards--it's that other [so-called] operating system that's been taking cues from *nix for decades, starting with its [idiotic] implementation of its DOS file system. They tried to copy UNIX, but did it like imbeciles...and changed slashes to backslashes.

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not sure what exactly it was but there was some weird security feature that disabled apps that required certain things. it's been a while
Well, I've used, *buntu since its first version, and I have *NO* idea what you're talking about.

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but that and being unable to login as root were deal breakers. oh sure i could modify it to force root login
There's no FORCING involved. FOUR keystrokes. Done.

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and even go to the CLI instead of X but still...should have had the option from the get-go.
Like I've said, it's a simple matter. A one-time change of four keystrokes, and you're good to go.

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as far as distros go i prefer more pure distros, the kind that don't default to X, or GDM, that allow you to toy around.
I've used Linux since its first release in 1991--and still have the 3-1/2" disks to prove it!--and have yet to find a distro that doesn't, or can't, do what you're asking.

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Ubuntu seems like a distro for Windows converts.
I wouldn't know. I don't do windows. I've used *nix since 1985, when there was nothing but the command line, and *buntu suits me just fine.

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my preferred distros are Slackware and Debian based
Debian based, eh? Kind of like...*buntu!

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with default CLI logins and use. if i want X, i startx
I do it the other way around. I start up with KDE, and I always have a terminal running, but when I REALLY feel the need for hardcore, old-fashioned CLI, I hit [ctrl][alt][Fx] and I'm there!
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Old January 3rd, 2013, 02:52 AM   #10 (permalink)
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I don't know why alot of people say some Linux desktop environments look like Windows 7 or 8. Linux was looking like that while Windows was on 95!

Ubuntu is a pretty good distro but I do believe it is trying to be Linux of all Linuxes. Sometimes that can be good and bad.

If I had to choose, I would take Debian over Ubuntu. Though I currently run Mageia & Salix OS. An RPM based distro and Slackware based distro!
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Old January 3rd, 2013, 03:53 AM   #11 (permalink)
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The Verge has a hands on video if anyone is interested:
Hands-on with Ubuntu's brand-new, gesture-based phone OS | The Verge
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Old January 3rd, 2013, 03:54 AM   #12 (permalink)
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The Verge has a hands on video if anyone is interested:
Hands-on with Ubuntu's brand-new, gesture-based phone OS | The Verge
Wow is that thing slow! Granted it's running on some old hardware (Gnex), but mine doesn't lag that bad on Android.
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Old January 3rd, 2013, 06:45 AM   #13 (permalink)
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I can't imagine that this will gain much traction at all. I'm not sure the smart phone world is big enough for another OS TBH. Hopefully this will silence the linux weenies (and I say that with love) who seem to argue quite often that there is HUGE pent up demand for full fledged Linux on the smart phone and that the first one who releases it will see gigantic success.
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Old January 3rd, 2013, 08:28 AM   #14 (permalink)
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I can't imagine that this will gain much traction at all. I'm not sure the smart phone world is big enough for another OS TBH. Hopefully this will silence the linux weenies (and I say that with love) who seem to argue quite often that there is HUGE pent up demand for full fledged Linux on the smart phone and that the first one who releases it will see gigantic success.
There's been a few Linux smart-phones in the past, like the Nokia N900 with Maemo. Could a pocket sized smart-phone run a full environment like KDE or Gnome or Mate or LXDE, along with proper Linux applications like Libre Office or Gimp? Difficult to see how that could be done with a 4 or 5 inch screen.
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Old January 3rd, 2013, 08:30 AM   #15 (permalink)
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Seems like it will be a nice phone, I like the integration they are doing with the desktop, yes it has been done before but, it seems like they are emphasizing it more.

Question is, how many patents will Apple sue over
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Old January 3rd, 2013, 08:34 AM   #16 (permalink)
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There's been a few Linux smart-phones in the past, like the Nokia N900 with Maemo. Could a pocket sized smart-phone run a full environment like KDE or Gnome or Mate or LXDE, along with proper Linux applications like Libre Office or Gimp? Difficult to see how that could be done with a 4 or 5 inch screen.
I vividly remember a rather heated discussion (I forget who with) that came out when Nokia killed it's OS in order to partner with Microsoft. I can't remember the name of the OS (Meego maybe???) but the argument the other poster made was that Microsoft paid off Nokia because they were terrified that a Linux phone would smash iOS, Android and, of course, WP7 into the dust and rule the market with ease. They would rather compete against iOS and Android because they felt they could make in roads there whereas if there was a Linux phone in the mix, they would be up a creek with no chance.
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Old January 3rd, 2013, 08:50 AM   #17 (permalink)
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I vividly remember a rather heated discussion (I forget who with) that came out when Nokia killed it's OS in order to partner with Microsoft. I can't remember the name of the OS (Meego maybe???) but the argument the other poster made was that Microsoft paid off Nokia because they were terrified that a Linux phone would smash iOS, Android and, of course, WP7 into the dust and rule the market with ease. They would rather compete against iOS and Android because they felt they could make in roads there whereas if there was a Linux phone in the mix, they would be up a creek with no chance.
Maemo became MeeGo, which subsequently became something called Tizen.
https://www.tizen.org/
Apparently supported by the Linux Foundation, but I don't think there's any actual products using it yet though, e.g. smart-phones.

BTW I know all about MeeGo...
Is this how Samsung is competing with Apple?

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Old January 3rd, 2013, 09:06 AM   #18 (permalink)
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I think there is one phone that is actually running it that was released. Can't recall though. I think it was rolled out with no support at all and shockingly, sold poorly.
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Old January 3rd, 2013, 09:10 AM   #19 (permalink)
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He says not - but I'll bet that's the Amazon phone. The Ubuntu one is supposed to debut soon. One or the other won't fly and since Canonical has added Amazon to its Dash ----
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Old January 3rd, 2013, 11:14 AM   #20 (permalink)
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If I remember correctly, these where some Linux phones up to around 2007.

Nokia N810, Openmoko, and the Motorola ROKR E8
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Old January 3rd, 2013, 12:15 PM   #21 (permalink)
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I had read about this a while back on the Ubuntu site; at that time, it was only for developers, but you could leave your info if you wanted to be contacted when the phone became available to consumers. There was also info about Ubuntu for Android.

As I recall from looking over its info, it looked good! I like the idea of a *buntu phone...but I don't feel very inclined to dump Android. What to do, what to do...
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Old January 3rd, 2013, 12:18 PM   #22 (permalink)
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Linux was able to (for a short time) be installed on Sony PlayStation 3 consoles with the 'otherOS' feature but Sony eventually killed it. the later patches removed the functionality and it was never available period on the slims. from what i read however, it was super slow on the thing. i can only imagine what a full Linux distro would do on a phone, given that the PS3 had a very well-spec processor.

still running VectorLinux 6.x on an old laptop i only wish there was a way to make two games that require me to force myself to run Windows to play work in Linux. i've tried everything but Wine just crashes. the games are Star Trek Online and Microsoft Flight Simulator X. they just do not work in Linux
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Old January 3rd, 2013, 04:55 PM   #23 (permalink)
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I think it will be interesting to see how other distro's respond. Could we see a red hat phone in the making? How about puppy linux? Will Gnome and KDE scale down and start smart phone development?

I think we are at a road that anything is possible but what is really probable? I think it will be neat to have a linux distro create a smart phone how long before its just another ROM you can Flash? I'm not a buntu user but still looks like we could be seeing more choices in the near future.
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Old January 3rd, 2013, 05:17 PM   #24 (permalink)
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Pardon my ignorance but isn't Android a Linux distro of sorts? Why do we need two?
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Old January 3rd, 2013, 05:26 PM   #25 (permalink)
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Pardon my ignorance but isn't Android a Linux distro of sorts?
Yes, Android is Linux.

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Why do we need two?
Because that's the great thing about Linux! The more distributions, the better!

No, but seriously, why not? What Ubuntu may bring to the smartphone market might be better/different/whatever than what Android brings. Choice is good for consumers, so why not have multiple Linux distros on smartphones?
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Old January 3rd, 2013, 06:20 PM   #26 (permalink)
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i only wish there was a way to make two games that require me to force myself to run Windows to play work in Linux. i've tried everything but Wine just crashes. the games are Star Trek Online and Microsoft Flight Simulator X. they just do not work in Linux
According to WineHQ, STO should work. What version of wine are you using? Also, you mentioned that you're "still running VectorLinux 6.x on an old laptop." Perhaps using a different Linux distro would yield better results. I'm in love with Bodhi Linux for resurrecting old computers! Perhaps give that a try.

Let me add that after reading your post, I downloaded STO and installed it. Everything looked great, the installer ran fine, graphics looked perfect, etc., but I got stuck in an endless loop at 'logging in'--it kept rotating between 'logging in' and 'do you have a Cryptic account?' When it showed the latter, clicking either the 'yes' or 'no' button did nothing--if I could even be fast enough to click before it went back to saying 'logging in.' In other words, it DID let me log in with my newly created Perfect World username and password, THEN it got stuck in the endless loop above. I finally gave up.

As for M$ Flight Simulator, understand that I've never used it, nor had I used any flight simulator until...after reading your post! I installed several (via Synaptic on Kubuntu) and they looked and ran great. Specifically, I tried Sabre, Flight Gear, and GL-117. Why not try any/all of those and see if they're acceptable replacements?
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Old January 3rd, 2013, 08:15 PM   #27 (permalink)
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Will Gnome and KDE scale down and start smart phone development?
I believe Gnome 3 is already touchscreen compatible. Along with Ubuntu's Unity interface. That is one reason for their major overhaul from Gnome 2.

I don't know much about KDE, not a fan.
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Old January 3rd, 2013, 09:02 PM   #28 (permalink)
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I got tons of add ons that only run in FSX, including mods that allow me to drive cars and sail boats, so that's no go. As for STO, yeah it dies in login. And that is if it doesn't give me a crash saying "this program encountered a problem." There is a distro that does windows games but somehow they don't give it away for free, it is pay ware--how they got past that In the GPL is beyond me. No source code either
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Old January 3rd, 2013, 09:53 PM   #29 (permalink)
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I got tons of add ons that only run in FSX, including mods that allow me to drive cars and sail boats, so that's no go. As for STO, yeah it dies in login. And that is if it doesn't give me a crash saying "this program encountered a problem." There is a distro that does windows games but somehow they don't give it away for free, it is pay ware--how they got past that In the GPL is beyond me. No source code either
It's called Crossover. It's basically a commercial version of WINE. But more polished and has additional compatibiliy work done on it.

Run Windows on Mac and Linux, easily and affordably
I do believe that Codeweavers does contribute their work back to the WINE project.

WINE is licensed under the LGPL(Lesser General Public License) rather than the GPL.

GNU Lesser General Public License - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

"The LGPL was thus developed as a compromise between the strong copyleft of the GNU General Public License or GPL and permissive licenses such as the BSD licenses and the MIT License. The word "Lesser" in the title of the license is used, to show that LGPL cannot guarantee endusers complete freedom in the use of software, because only the LGPL-parts (but not any proprietary software-parts) guarantee endusers the access to source code and therefore the freedom of modification."

BTW companies are allowed to do commercial paid Linux distributions as well, that can have proprietary software included. Provided they make their source code available, for any GPL open source components they might have used, e.g. the Linux Kernel. The GPL does allow for that.
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Old January 4th, 2013, 09:00 AM   #30 (permalink)
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Is Samsung building the phones?
This pic looks like Samsung.
Ubuntu is coming to smartphones, but will anyone use it? - Jan. 2, 2013
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Old January 4th, 2013, 10:42 AM   #31 (permalink)
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Well I ain't paying for Linux. The idea is repulsive. Commercial distros like red hat and Mandriva still allow free downloads of the discs. Point being, I still find myself stuck in windows for games, kinda like my need to use an iPad for apps not yet ported to Android as of yet (more games, specifically the Sky Gamblers and Nova series )
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Old January 4th, 2013, 08:22 PM   #32 (permalink)
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Well I ain't paying for Linux. The idea is repulsive. Commercial distros like red hat and Mandriva still allow free downloads of the discs.
They have to allow that because of the GPL.

Codeweavers Crossover is not Linux. It's a commercial paid application that runs on Linux or Mac OS X. Mostly based on LGPL'd WINE, probably with some proprietary components as well.

You're not paying for Linux. Linux is free. But understand the concept of free speech vs free beer. You're paying for product support. When you buy a commercial Linux OS like RHEL(Red Hat Enterprise Linux). You can phone or email Red Hat Inc, and they will help and support you. You download it for free and don't pay for support, you have to sort your own problems out. Canonical does the same as well for Ubuntu, if you pay them.

It does cost real money to develop Linux and FOSS though, it's not all voluntary devs.

Should really have a go at the thousands of Chinese manufacturers that use Linux based OSs, like Android, in their products. They never seem to release the source code of whatever they've done to it, in violation of the GPL, LGPL, BSD, and other open source licenses. But then this is China.

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Point being, I still find myself stuck in windows for games, kinda like my need to use an iPad for apps not yet ported to Android as of yet (more games, specifically the Sky Gamblers and Nova series )
Well if you got Windows software and there's no FOSS equivalent, and it does't work with WINE, you use Windows. That's what I do.... Best tools for the job as they say. I use Windows for playing games, and Linux for getting real work done, as well as all my internet activities.
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Old January 4th, 2013, 08:29 PM   #33 (permalink)
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I just don't like the swipe it takes to access everything.
I doubt anyone does yet the thing is that is their main selling point
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Old January 4th, 2013, 08:58 PM   #34 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by nickdalzell View Post
Well I ain't paying for Linux. The idea is repulsive. Commercial distros like red hat and Mandriva still allow free downloads of the discs. Point being, I still find myself stuck in windows for games, kinda like my need to use an iPad for apps not yet ported to Android as of yet (more games, specifically the Sky Gamblers and Nova series )
Don't blame Linux, blame the software developers for not porting their stuff to Linux.

Just a thought. And yes, use the right tool for the job.
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Old January 4th, 2013, 09:15 PM   #35 (permalink)
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I doubt anyone does yet the thing is that is their main selling point
Good morning Liam.. I like the big avatar.
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Old January 4th, 2013, 09:59 PM   #36 (permalink)
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Don't blame Linux, blame the software developers for not porting their stuff to Linux.

Just a thought. And yes, use the right tool for the job.
Crossover is considered a Linux distro, yet it is pay only. I ain't paying for Linux just for compatibility, I'd use windows which is paid for first. It has nothing to do with porting. Linux is supposed to be free. Commercial distros are free but can be paid for, I understand that. But making one mandatory pay ware is just wrong. Linux isn't closed source that way.
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Old January 4th, 2013, 11:05 PM   #37 (permalink)
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Crossover is considered a Linux distro,
Um, no, it's not. I'm not sure where you got that idea, but according to the CodeWeavers web site:
Quote:
Run Windows Applications on Linux, Easily and Affordably

CrossOver allows you to install many popular Windows applications and PC games on your Linux computer.
CrossOver is nothing more than a software application that you install *ON* an existing Linux computer.

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yet it is pay only. I ain't paying for Linux just for compatibility
Well, again, CrossOver is NOT Linux, so that point is moot.

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I'd use windows which is paid for first.
Fine. If you're happy with windows, by all means use it!

Quote:
It has nothing to do with porting. Linux is supposed to be free. Commercial distros are free but can be paid for, I understand that. But making one mandatory pay ware is just wrong. Linux isn't closed source that way.
Since you're laboring under the misconception that CrossOver is a Linux distro, and that paying for it is a cardinal sin...well, never mind. It's not a distro so let's not worry about that.

I have to say I'm always a bit perplexed by people who are outraged at the concept of paying for Linux [application] software, yet have paid through the ass for micro$oft products year after year. And what did they get in return? Crashes, viruses, bloatware, adware, malware, spyware, BSODs, constant rebooting, constant upgrading of hardware and software, paying constantly for anti-virus software...and ZERO right to modify the OS! What's that about?
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Old January 4th, 2013, 11:17 PM   #38 (permalink)
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Crossover is considered a Linux distro,
Wrong!

It's a paid commercial application that you install on a Linux OS, e.g. Ubuntu or Vector Linux, and there's a version for Mac OS X as well.
You can download a free trial and see for yourself...
CrossOver Runs Windows on Mac and Linux, easily and affordably

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yet it is pay only.
Yup, but you can get the open source version here...
WineHQ - Run Windows applications on Linux, BSD, Solaris and Mac OS X

Support Wine - CodeWeavers

CodeWeavers: Proud Supporters of The Wine Project

Everything we do at CodeWeavers revolves around the Wine Project. Thanks to our customers, we have been able to fund significant improvements in Wine Project.

We contribute all of our work on Wine back to the Wine Project. We support many key Wine developers, who are making Wine into the technology that it needs to be. We also host the Wine community web server.
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Old January 4th, 2013, 11:18 PM   #39 (permalink)
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Well you're partly incorrect. There are things in Android (Linux) that I still don't have any way to modify. For example, I have zero control over what apps start up on their own, which stay open when I back out of them, and which close. As the owner of my device I should be the one deciding which apps run and which don't. But like with Windows, I do not.

Secondly, I cannot install a tiny 300KB App if 10 MB remain on internal. It will always claim insufficient storage, despite the FACT that 10MB > 300 KB. As the owner, why can't I use all my space?

Thirdly, why can't I disable the annoying crash and wait dialogs? Even as Root?

MikeDt, I cannot get Star Trek Online, the Endless Forest, and Flight Simulator X to run in Wine. Wine fails for games, works well for apps not needing direct hardware access. I can run IE or uTorrent, but not FSX.

Seriously, I wish Linux could replace Windows. But with so much of what I use listed as 'never going to work' in Wine's compatibility list, what point is there unless all I ever do is browse the web and check email?

MoodyBlues, some folks leave MS and convert to Linux because they're sick of paying for MS products. So I can perfectly understand why they get miffed when Linux stuff costs money when they're lead to believe it to be 'Free Software'
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Old January 4th, 2013, 11:41 PM   #40 (permalink)
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Well you're partly incorrect.
No, I'm not.

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There are things in Android (Linux) that I still don't have any way to modify.
You're confusing Android with a standard Linux distribution--which it is NOT. Therefore, the rest of your argument is moot.

Quote:
Secondly, I cannot install a tiny 300KB App if 10 MB remain on internal. It will always claim insufficient storage, despite the FACT that 10MB > 300 KB. As the owner, why can't I use all my space?
Are we talking about on an Android device, or a Linux computer? If the former, I have no idea--my Android devices correctly interpret the size of my SD cards and I have no problem installing anything. If the latter, it would take a really screwed up Linux computer to do that.

Quote:
Thirdly, why can't I disable the annoying crash and wait dialogs? Even as Root?
What exactly are you referring to? I can do *ANYTHING* I want on my Linux computers so, again, are we talking Android or Linux?

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Wine fails for games
The only windows software I run via wine is Roller Coaster Tycoon--and have for years and years. It plays outstandingly well.

Quote:
Seriously, I wish Linux could replace Windows. But with so much of what I use listed as 'never going to work' in Wine's compatibility list, what point is there unless all I ever do is browse the web and check email?
Please don't get offended, but I actually find it kind of funny, but a little sad, too, that you see it that way. I don't allow any m$ products in my house and, believe me, all the computers in this house do much more than just surf the web and check e-mail. I really feel that you don't understand, or are just not aware of, the VAST selection of every imaginable program available for Linux. That's a shame, because you're missing out on so much.

When I switched my mother to Linux from windows, she couldn't grasp--at first--that she didn't need CDs any more to install things. Or that she didn't need to reboot--EVER. Or that she could choose from thousands and thousands of programs--and her favorite thing to do on her computer is play games--all of which were free, and installable via a few clicks. My favorite thing, however, was when she complained that her computer was "too fast!"

I do everything on Linux. Only. From photography projects to programming, from playing 3D games to running my web sites, it's all Linux all the time. I understand that you're invested in certain things, like stuff you've added [or whatever] to FSX. I wouldn't want to be without my favorite game, Roller Coaster Tycoon, after all I've invested in it over the years, so I get that. But if you're open to at least TRYING Linux equivalents of things you're used to, you MIGHT be pleasantly surprised.
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Old January 4th, 2013, 11:53 PM   #41 (permalink)
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Well good for you, I got programs that will likely never work in Linux and I shouldn't need to force myself to give them up. I got the spare laptops to try it out, to see if the clones can hold a candle to what I am used to (and hoping they're not watered down variants, like the BlackBerry clone of Angry Birds called Angry Farm) however I refuse to touch Ubuntu. If you can help advise another capable distro ill be happy to try again. So far other than theming it in Star Trek LCARS or recreating the Irix desktop from Jurassic Park (recreating science fiction computers is a hobby of mine) on a normal use basis Vector is only good at browsing the web or checking email, and can't play my games.
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Old January 5th, 2013, 12:22 AM   #42 (permalink)
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Well you're partly incorrect. There are things in Android (Linux) that I still don't have any way to modify. For example, I have zero control over what apps start up on their own, which stay open when I back out of them, and which close. As the owner of my device I should be the one deciding which apps run and which don't. But like with Windows, I do not.
Linux is only the kernel of Android.

Are you concerned by the fact you have zero control and can't modify whatever software might be running on your TV, DVD player, WiFi router, cable box, digital camera, washing machine, car, microwave oven, rice cooker, toaster oven, etc. Even though these are all your items, that you paid money for, and many of them do use Linux and FOSS based software.

BTW this is Sony's Linux and FOSS souce code distribution site...
http://www.sony.net/Products/Linux/common/search.html
...as per their obligations under the GPL, LGPL, etc. But doesn't necessarily mean you can go modding and hacking the Linux software in their camcorders or TVs though.

Quote:
Originally Posted by nickdalzell View Post
Secondly, I cannot install a tiny 300KB App if 10 MB remain on internal. It will always claim insufficient storage, despite the FACT that 10MB > 300 KB. As the owner, why can't I use all my space?

Thirdly, why can't I disable the annoying crash and wait dialogs? Even as Root?

MikeDt, I cannot get Star Trek Online, the Endless Forest, and Flight Simulator X to run in Wine. Wine fails for games, works well for apps not needing direct hardware access. I can run IE or uTorrent, but not FSX.
I play games on Windows. However I do use Wine for MS Office, because I've found a few things that don't work properly with Libre Office. I don't think there's any need whatsover to run something like uTorrent on Wine though, other than the fact it can be done. I use Transmission for my bittorrent needs.

Quote:
Originally Posted by nickdalzell View Post
Seriously, I wish Linux could replace Windows. But with so much of what I use listed as 'never going to work' in Wine's compatibility list, what point is there unless all I ever do is browse the web and check email?
MS Office Professional is on the compatibilty list though.

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MoodyBlues, some folks leave MS and convert to Linux because they're sick of paying for MS products. So I can perfectly understand why they get miffed when Linux stuff costs money when they're lead to believe it to be 'Free Software'
Perhaps they should read and be educated...
Gratis versus libre - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Gratis versus libre is the distinction between two meanings of the English adjective "free"; namely, "for zero price" (gratis) and "with little or no restriction" (libre).

Why I made the ealier reference to free speech vs free beer.
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Old January 5th, 2013, 01:13 AM   #43 (permalink)
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This Conversation has gotten far away from the OP and become more of a linux how to it would seem. Oh and as far as paying for a Linux Distro you do that everytime you buy a new dvd / blueray player or any other componet that has an "Operating System" Most OEM's like Linux in the fact that you don't have to pay another company for development of your hardware. It's the whole reason M$ has its own stuff running windows because of Licencing and others lack of willingness to pay M$ lots of money to make their stuff work.
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Old January 5th, 2013, 08:06 AM   #44 (permalink)
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I said it before:
Canonical's Ubuntu for smartphones is tailor-made for Amazon- The Inquirer

I'm not the only one.
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Old January 5th, 2013, 09:17 AM   #45 (permalink)
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not sure what brought up microwaves and cars. my car is 21 years old. my microwave probably 15. unlike most of you all I do not have all those fancy new things. it stops after PlayStation 3 and Xbox 360.

but to go with the analogy, if your microwave told you that your defrost settings were invalid, because of some weird 'health concern' it would bug me.....I mean if I tell it to defrost for 15 minutes, it better well do as I ask or it's going back to the store. I got rid of the unit that came with my trailer only because it had this issue with Compu Defrost telling me what I set it for was invalid. it tried asking me useless info such as lbs and ounces, and then after entering that, and setting the time, it didn't work. told me simply, 'error' 'see manual'. screw that, I replaced it with an older unit that works when I set defrost to 15 min

by control I do not mean modifying and hacking. I shouldn't have to even do that to get control. I mean by control meaning telling it what to do and having it do it. if I don't like Android nagging me with 'Facebook is not responding, do you want to close it?' (I can already see Clippy from MS Office saying that!) I should be able to disable it and force it to wait, right? if I got 15MB left, I should be able to use it to install an app requiring far less than that amount, right?

if I tell a TV to change the channel, is it wrong to expect it to do just that? then if I expect to be perfectly able to use 15MB remaining internal space to install an app requiring only 300KB, it stands to reason I should be able to...

point being Android has no right to just open apps or keep them running when I do not tell it to. when I back out and close an app, be it the 'right' way or by 'force stop', I expect them to shut down and remain that way. imagine if your TV just up and decided to turn itself on, or your car decided to start its own engine to maintain itself some weird way? when I buy something, I expect it to do as I tell it to. if it fails to achieve that basic expectation, I usually don't keep it.
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Old January 5th, 2013, 12:30 PM   #46 (permalink)
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not sure what brought up microwaves and cars. my car is 21 years old. my microwave probably 15. unlike most of you all I do not have all those fancy new things. it stops after PlayStation 3 and Xbox 360.

but to go with the analogy, if your microwave told you that your defrost settings were invalid, because of some weird 'health concern' it would bug me.....I mean if I tell it to defrost for 15 minutes, it better well do as I ask or it's going back to the store. I got rid of the unit that came with my trailer only because it had this issue with Compu Defrost telling me what I set it for was invalid. it tried asking me useless info such as lbs and ounces, and then after entering that, and setting the time, it didn't work. told me simply, 'error' 'see manual'. screw that, I replaced it with an older unit that works when I set defrost to 15 min

by control I do not mean modifying and hacking. I shouldn't have to even do that to get control. I mean by control meaning telling it what to do and having it do it. if I don't like Android nagging me with 'Facebook is not responding, do you want to close it?' (I can already see Clippy from MS Office saying that!) I should be able to disable it and force it to wait, right? if I got 15MB left, I should be able to use it to install an app requiring far less than that amount, right?

if I tell a TV to change the channel, is it wrong to expect it to do just that? then if I expect to be perfectly able to use 15MB remaining internal space to install an app requiring only 300KB, it stands to reason I should be able to...

point being Android has no right to just open apps or keep them running when I do not tell it to. when I back out and close an app, be it the 'right' way or by 'force stop', I expect them to shut down and remain that way. imagine if your TV just up and decided to turn itself on, or your car decided to start its own engine to maintain itself some weird way? when I buy something, I expect it to do as I tell it to. if it fails to achieve that basic expectation, I usually don't keep it.
Not sure where you get your information but android does not just "Turn on and run apps" apps tell android that they are running and android allocates space to them just like any other OS does. Just because you don't know how to stop an app you installed to keep from running (Or an app Preinstalled) doesn't make it androids fault. And as far as being able to install an app when you get an out of space message any OS will not allow you to install more. This is because running apps need more room than the counterpart none running app. the low notification is generally a percentage and when you get to that percentage the OS is telling you to install more space or clean up space that is being wasted on stuff you don't need. either way any good OS will prevent you from trying to add more after you reach the threshold. Running flash memory and disk like that will only cause physical errors and shorten the life of the device and its componets.
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Old January 5th, 2013, 06:10 PM   #47 (permalink)
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once again i could care less how it is designed. or why it does it. i got 15MB left i cannot use not matter what, that i feel i personally am devoted to. risks or whatever. i do not want an OS blocking me telling me a lie that it is out of space when it's far from it!. it's not out of space until there is .5MB left. not 15MB. a 300KB app is far less than 15MB. easy math!

and it is partly Android's fault. it offers zero provision to shut down and close apps period. even desktop Linux has that ability, the little 'X' in the upper right hand corner of Firefox, to name one example. when i hit that in Mandriva that i am using right now, the app actually shuts down. it does not 'cache' or stay running minimized, it exits as i told it to. but Android, nope. it just puts it into background mode. sure, if someone actually is so impatient that they don't want to wait a minute to allow it to open from scratch, they may like that. i don't. when i close apps i expect them to close. oh but i can force close or kill them right? wrong! it will spawn open again. that's not what i want! when i kill an app it should STAY KILLED.
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Old January 5th, 2013, 06:35 PM   #48 (permalink)
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Well if you don't like android stop complaining about it and use something else. There are alternatives if you don't like those either then use a dumb phone. Either way this thread needs to get back to the OP and not a discussion on how things suck or don't suck on the grand scale of things. It is what it is don't like it move on.

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When are the first wave of these scheduled for release though I saw something saying next year?
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Old January 5th, 2013, 06:56 PM   #49 (permalink)
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Its pretty well known that killing apps is bad for the device. Don't do that
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Old January 5th, 2013, 07:54 PM   #50 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nickdalzell View Post
once again i could care less how it is designed. or why it does it. i got 15MB left i cannot use not matter what, that i feel i personally am devoted to. risks or whatever. i do not want an OS blocking me telling me a lie that it is out of space when it's far from it!. it's not out of space until there is .5MB left. not 15MB. a 300KB app is far less than 15MB. easy math!
Sorry, but you're just not getting it. The small size of an app you want to install has nothing to do with how much space you THINK you have available. The operating system, and programs it runs, need space AVAILABLE for when they're running. In the Linux world we call it swap space; I don't know what's analogous to it in the windows world. At any rate, Android is just another operating system, and it needs space available that will allow programs and system functions to run. If that means you apparently have 15MB of space available, yet you're unable to install anything, I have to assume that the OS is preventing you doing so because otherwise it would GRIND TO A HALT later, when it tries to run a process or app and freezes due to lack of space. I'm not familiar enough with how Android allocates space to really say anything more; my expertise is in the actual, pure Linux world.

And now I think we should take argedion's excellent suggestion to get this thread back on topic. If you want to discuss various Android and/or Linux issues, per se, that have nothing to do with this thread's topic, start a new thread!
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