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Old February 8th, 2013, 05:11 PM   #201 (permalink)
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too bad vinyl and car stereos don't mix. although i think one company did attempt it

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Old February 8th, 2013, 05:43 PM   #202 (permalink)
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Default Re: Unlocking smartphones without permission illegal after 01/25/13

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You're making me nostalgic. *sigh* I don't even have a turntable any more, but my albums are still in pristine condition. I'm kind of obsessive about taking care of stuff.
I still buy new stuff on vinyl, I also buy CDs and burn them onto my PC.
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Old February 8th, 2013, 08:55 PM   #203 (permalink)
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Wow, I just looked back in on this thread after a couple of days. What a turn this conversation has taken! Now I have to go back and see how it got here. lol
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Old February 9th, 2013, 12:02 AM   #204 (permalink)
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Wow, I just looked back in on this thread after a couple of days. What a turn this conversation has taken! Now I have to go back and see how it got here. lol
Personally, I thread drift. It's kind of like real life conversations that just flow.
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Old February 9th, 2013, 07:04 AM   #205 (permalink)
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There are now turntables that can record to mp3. I'm not sure if they can correct the hiss and pop you get on recording.
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Old February 9th, 2013, 01:05 PM   #206 (permalink)
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Personally, I thread drift. It's kind of like real life conversations that just flow.

some mod will come in and clean it up... hate that
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Old February 13th, 2013, 02:54 PM   #207 (permalink)
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I always hear carriers claiming that they subsidize the cost of the phone, but really, I've never seen and hard proof of this. I do know that when I travel to 3rd world markets more often than not the same phones are substantially cheaper as someone living in say the Philippines making $100 mo. can't afford a $300-$500 phone.

I think this new law SUCKS and hopefully consumer groups will sue to change it. To me, whining about the software licensing is just a way for the carriers to cover their tracks in their quest for profits and control over our handsets. Frankly, I don't want any of the bloatware they put on my phone to start with, so they can take their licensing claims and shove it.......

DW
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Old February 14th, 2013, 03:56 AM   #208 (permalink)
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There are now turntables that can record to mp3. I'm not sure if they can correct the hiss and pop you get on recording.
You can get turntables with a pre-amp and/or USB, that just plug straight into a PC. Most likely they come with an audio mastering, editing and encoding suite, something like Audacity.
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Old February 19th, 2013, 11:33 AM   #209 (permalink)
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Default Re: Unlocking smartphones without permission illegal after 01/25/13

Wow i haven't been on this topic in a minute but i found something out about this warranty look at this

http://fsfe.org/freesoftware/legal/flashingdevices.en.html

This is a eye opener
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Old February 19th, 2013, 11:53 AM   #210 (permalink)
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I always hear carriers claiming that they subsidize the cost of the phone, but really, I've never seen and hard proof of this.
All I can say is if you buy a phone without a contract, it is more costly than with a contract. Lots of phones available for free that can cost you hundreds if you do not purchase a 2-year contract. You might not pay hundreds upfront, but you do end up paying for the phone one way or another.

Sure seems like a subsidy to me.

If there were no subsidy, sales would likely slow if we had to pay full boat for the phone upfront.

That said, we end up paying for the phone via our bills and escaping them is also costly.

That said, if carriers sold us the phone upfront without the subsidy, the costs would be cheaper than the phones they sell off contract (sometimes, $700.00 or more) currently.

That said, our costly bills would be more because the phone company wants money and they know we will pay for our phones.
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Old February 19th, 2013, 11:56 AM   #211 (permalink)
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Wow i haven't been on this topic in a minute but i found something out about this warranty look at this

Does rooting your device (e.g. an Android phone) and replacing its operating system with something else void your statutory warranty, if you are a consumer?

This is a eye opener
I skimmed the piece and it seems the piece discusses the laws in the EU rather than in this country. You should search for the laws, rules and regulations that apply here.
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Old February 19th, 2013, 12:00 PM   #212 (permalink)
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Personally, I thread drift. It's kind of like real life conversations that just flow.
Remember, given enough time, all threads will lead to Mr. Hitler and that is that.
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Old February 19th, 2013, 03:12 PM   #213 (permalink)
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Proponents of cellphone unlocking ask the White House for help

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By Jon Healey

1:14 PM PST, February 18, 2013

Proponents of cellphone unlocking are trying to gain the White House's support through a petition drive, but they face a couple of non-trivial hurdles. First, they have until Saturday to reach 100,000 signatures — the new threshold the Obama administration set for responding to petitions on its We the People site — and they were more than 25,000 short as of this writing. And second, even if they hit their target and win over the administration, it's not clear the White House can do much to help.

At issue is the Librarian of Congress' decision last October to end an exemption in federal copyright law for cellphone unlocking. Under the 1998 Digital Millennium Copyright Act, it's illegal to circumvent electronic locks that protect a copyrighted work. The law called on the Librarian of Congress to grant exemptions every three years as needed to let people make non-infringing uses of such works, and such exemptions were granted for cellphone unlocking in 2006 and 2010. But prodded by the head of the Copyright Office, the Librarian reversed course last year, finding that people who wanted to unlock their phones could do so by asking their phone company for permission.

As a result, those who want to switch mobile phone companies without buying another pricey smartphone, or to use their phone on a foreign network without paying roaming charges, have to rely on the beneficence of the carrier that sold them the phone. Just imagine how that conversation will go: "Hi, I used to be a customer, can you help me use one of your rivals' networks?"

The Times' editorial board was one of many outlets decrying the ruling, writing, "it's hard to see the connection between the locks and the software creators that copyright law were supposed to protect." The board added, "Clearly, the point of the locks isn't to protect Apple, Google and other creators of copyrighted phone software; it's to protect the phone companies' revenue streams."

Sina Khanifar, an entrepreneur in San Francisco who helped obtain the original exemption for unlocking cellphones, filed the We the People petition shortly before the librarian's latest decision went into effect in January. Noting that "the great majority of phones sold" are locked, it argues that locking reduces consumer choice and decreases the resale value of a phone. It concludes, "We ask that the White House ask the Librarian of Congress to rescind this decision, and failing that, champion a bill that makes unlocking permanently legal."

But the Library of Congress is a legislative branch agency, not one subject to presidential oversight. Besides, the law provides no avenue for appealing the librarian's decisions. Ironically, the original unlocking exemption drew a lawsuit from TracFone, a company that makes cellphone software, said Jason Schultz, a copyright law expert at UC Berkeley. But after the Justice Department weighed in, arguing that there was no legal basis for the lawsuit, TracFone withdrew its complaint.

Khanifar conceded that there's a jurisdictional problem with his petition, but said he didn't want to wait three years for the librarian to grant the next round of exemptions. While he hopes the White House can "put pressure on the library" to reverse course, the more reasonable hope is that the administration might put its support behind a legislative fix.

Even if President Obama personally endorsed a cellphone unlocking bill — which seems unlikely, given how many other, higher priority issues he has on his plate — it wouldn't necessarily make the bill's path to passage any easier. That's because of the politics surrounding copyright issues make it hard for Congress to do anything that could be seen as encouraging piracy.

The DMCA's anti-circumvention provisions could definitely use a tuneup, having been stretched beyond their intent by companies eager to guard against business-model disruption more than copyright infringement. But with the entertainment industry and other copyright-intensive companies firmly opposed to any weakening of those provisions, Congress has been loath to revisit the law. Nor does the mobile phone industry support an exemption for phone unlocking, which its trade association argues would deter investment in phone operating systems and related software.

That's difficult to believe, considering that the iPhone and Android mobile ecosystems were developed during the years when phone unlocking was legal. Nevertheless, the phone industry's stance is another indication of how tilted the legislative playing field would be against Khanifar and his allies.

Healey writes editorials for The Times. Follow him on Twitter @jcahealey

Copyright © 2013, Los Angeles Times
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Old February 22nd, 2013, 08:25 AM   #214 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Droidwerks View Post
I always hear carriers claiming that they subsidize the cost of the phone, but really, I've never seen and hard proof of this. I do know that when I travel to 3rd world markets more often than not the same phones are substantially cheaper as someone living in say the Philippines making $100 mo. can't afford a $300-$500 phone.
I agree about the phone costs. I think those prices are absurd. Take the NExus 7 for example. It has a 7 inch screen, QUAD CORE processor, bluetooth radio, and WiFi radio. The only difference between this and a phone is the addition of two, maybe three radios. Now I must admit that I have no idea how much a CDMA 3G radio costs, but that technology hasn't changed in a LOOOOOONG time. How much could they possibly be? SO what about Wimax, or LTE? Both of these are newer, but again, I suspect the radio doesn't cost hundreds and hundreds of dollars.

So how do we get from a $200 Nexus 7 to a $700 Galaxy S3? That's $500 more for a phone with a smaller screen, dual core processor, and a couple of extra radios. Oh, and an 8MP camera with a cheap lens, and a terriblly small sensor. I almost forgot about that

Does this add up? IMHO it doesn't...but again, it's not about fair markups. This is about capitalism and free market. So they can charge $1200 if they want, or whatever. I'm just pointing out that $700 for a phone off contract is utter BS...though my opinion doesn't really count for anything.

As long as every manufacturer does it, the consumer is screwed.
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Old February 22nd, 2013, 09:08 AM   #215 (permalink)
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Default Re: Unlocking smartphones without permission illegal after 01/25/13

Google is probably losing money on every nexus device they sell.

That isn't really a good comparison because Google is just trying to get more users on android because they get money from people being on it. Samsung only makes money on selling the device
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Old February 22nd, 2013, 02:23 PM   #216 (permalink)
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^^^

asus is the maker of the N7... and they will need to make $$$ on each device.
Google may not want to make $ on the device, but google did not make the device.

so asus can make the N7 and make a profit on it...at $200.
then give the S3 another $150 for the extra stuff.. that is $350.
then the carriers are getting the device at about $350... then subsidizing it, and selling it for $200 with a 2 yr contract.

in theory the carrier is subsidizing only about $150.. but they raise the service month cost by a huge margin (comparing prepaid cost, where you own your own device).. for 2 yrs!!!! there is something uneven here...
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Old February 23rd, 2013, 10:02 AM   #217 (permalink)
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Google is probably losing money on every nexus device they sell.

That isn't really a good comparison because Google is just trying to get more users on android because they get money from people being on it. Samsung only makes money on selling the device
OK, I'll play along.

What about the Samsung Galaxy Tab? $200 with 7" screen...only dual core, but it's older. Pick any tablet in the $300 price range, it it will likely compare to the Galaxy S3 or surpass it...and the main difference is the lack of cellular radios. Are the cellular radios really that expensive? Maybe they are, I don't know...

My main point is that the numbers seem fudged. I am not questioning their right to fudge the numbers...just claiming that they are fudged.
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Old February 23rd, 2013, 12:02 PM   #218 (permalink)
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if phones were not subsidized the cell phone customer would be the same type who had one in the 1980s...you know, super-expensive phones, $4 per-minute rates and all that stuff. subsidies are the reason that average Joes can even have cell phones, cheap laptops, even HDTVs. some are part of a contract deal and others just make things appear cheap by either outsourcing or offsetting the cost in taxes
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Old February 23rd, 2013, 07:08 PM   #219 (permalink)
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OK, I'll play along.

What about the Samsung Galaxy Tab? $200 with 7" screen...only dual core, but it's older. Pick any tablet in the $300 price range, it it will likely compare to the Galaxy S3 or surpass it...and the main difference is the lack of cellular radios. Are the cellular radios really that expensive? Maybe they are, I don't know...

My main point is that the numbers seem fudged. I am not questioning their right to fudge the numbers...just claiming that they are fudged.
I think a good example is the Apple iPhone vs the Apple iPod Touch. They're pretty much the same thing, except one has cellular radios and one doesn't. However there's probably around a $300-$400 USD price difference between the two, if you're paying the full unsubsidised price for an iPhone. There's no way cellular radios really can cost that much, simply because of all the low cost cell-phones out there. Some of which are as little as $20 now, and that's an unsubsidised price.
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Old February 23rd, 2013, 08:43 PM   #220 (permalink)
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good news is that Apple products tend to depreciate very fast.
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Old March 1st, 2013, 01:19 PM   #221 (permalink)
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FCC to investigate ban on 'unlocking' cellphones

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By Salvador Rodriguez

10:00 AM PST, March 1, 2013

The Federal Communications Commission will investigate a recent ban on the practice of consumers "unlocking" their mobile phones.

The ban went into effect in late January and keeps consumers from unlocking their phones without the permission of the carrier from whom they purchased the device. Previously, consumers unlocked their phones in order to use the device with a different carrier. Now, they face possible legal action if they unlock their device without carrier permission.

The “ban raises competition concerns," FCC Chairman Julius Genachowski told TechCrunch. "It raises innovation concerns.”

It's unclear, however, if the FCC, an executive agency, can do anything about the ban, which was put in place by Congress.

The ban falls under the 1998 Digital Millennium Copyright Act, but exceptions for unlocking phones were made in 2006 and 2010. After prodding by the Copyright Office, the Librarian of Congress decided not to grant another exception for phone unlocking last year, saying users who want an unlocked phone can either buy one or ask their carrier for permission.

Regardless, Genachowski said the FCC will look into the matter.

“It’s something that we will look at at the FCC to see if we can and should enable consumers to use unlocked phones,” he said, according to the report.

Copyright © 2013, Los Angeles Times
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Old March 1st, 2013, 01:31 PM   #222 (permalink)
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“It’s something that we will look at at the FCC to see if we can and should enable consumers to use unlocked phones,” he said, according to the report.

i am concerned about that statement.
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Old March 1st, 2013, 02:05 PM   #223 (permalink)
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“It’s something that we will look at at the FCC to see if we can and should enable consumers to use unlocked phones,” he said, according to the report.

i am concerned about that statement.
Me too.
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Old March 2nd, 2013, 10:30 AM   #224 (permalink)
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Default Re: Unlocking smartphones without permission illegal after 01/25/13

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“It’s something that we will look at at the FCC to see if we can and should enable consumers to use unlocked phones,” he said, according to the report.

i am concerned about that statement.
Me three, considering we CAN used unlocked phones already...dang it!
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Old March 4th, 2013, 08:08 AM   #225 (permalink)
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Inside the Fight to Legalize Cellphone Unlocking - Mashable

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Old March 4th, 2013, 04:44 PM   #226 (permalink)
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White House is urging reversal:
White House urges reversal of ban on cell-phone unlocking
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Old March 4th, 2013, 04:46 PM   #227 (permalink)
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Default Re: Unlocking smartphones without permission illegal after 01/25/13

Received this today:

It's Time to Legalize Cell Phone Unlocking

By R. David Edelman, Senior Advisor for Internet, Innovation, & Privacy

Thank you for sharing your views on cell phone unlocking with us through your petition on our We the People platform. Last week the White House brought together experts from across government who work on telecommunications, technology, and copyright policy, and we're pleased to offer our response.

The White House agrees with the 114,000+ of you who believe that consumers should be able to unlock their cell phones without risking criminal or other penalties. In fact, we believe the same principle should also apply to tablets, which are increasingly similar to smart phones. And if you have paid for your mobile device, and aren't bound by a service agreement or other obligation, you should be able to use it on another network. It's common sense, crucial for protecting consumer choice, and important for ensuring we continue to have the vibrant, competitive wireless market that delivers innovative products and solid service to meet consumers' needs.

This is particularly important for secondhand or other mobile devices that you might buy or receive as a gift, and want to activate on the wireless network that meets your needs --even if it isn't the one on which the device was first activated. All consumers deserve that flexibility.

The White House's position detailed in this response builds on some critical thinking done by the President's chief advisory Agency on these matters: the Department of Commerce's National Telecommunications and Information Administration (NTIA). For more context and information on the technical aspects of the issue, you can review the NTIA's letter to the Library of Congress' Register of Copyrights (.pdf), voicing strong support for maintaining the previous exception to the Digital Millennium Copyright Act (DMCA) for cell phone carrier unlocking.

Contrary to the NTIA's recommendation, the Librarian of Congress ruled that phones purchased after January of this year would no longer be exempted from the DMCA. The law gives the Librarian the authority to establish or eliminate exceptions -- and we respect that process. But it is also worth noting the statement the Library of Congress released today on the broader public policy concerns of the issue. Clearly the White House and Library of Congress agree that the DMCA exception process is a rigid and imperfect fit for this telecommunications issue, and we want to ensure this particular challenge for mobile competition is solved.

So where do we go from here?

The Obama Administration would support a range of approaches to addressing this issue, including narrow legislative fixes in the telecommunications space that make it clear: neither criminal law nor technological locks should prevent consumers from switching carriers when they are no longer bound by a service agreement or other obligation.

We also believe the Federal Communications Commission (FCC), with its responsibility for promoting mobile competition and innovation, has an important role to play here. FCC Chairman Genachowski today voiced his concern about mobile phone unlocking (.pdf), and to complement his efforts, NTIA will be formally engaging with the FCC as it addresses this urgent issue.

Finally, we would encourage mobile providers to consider what steps they as businesses can take to ensure that their customers can fully reap the benefits and features they expect when purchasing their devices.

We look forward to continuing to work with Congress, the wireless and mobile phone industries, and most importantly you -- the everyday consumers who stand to benefit from this greater flexibility -- to ensure our laws keep pace with changing technology, protect the economic competitiveness that has led to such innovation in this space, and offer consumers the flexibility and freedoms they deserve.
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Old March 4th, 2013, 04:52 PM   #228 (permalink)
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I see others have beaten me to it, but I'll go ahead and post this anyway...

White House: Consumers should be able to unlock smartphones

Quote:
latimes.com

By Salvador Rodriguez

11:19 AM PST, March 4, 2013

The White House said Monday that consumers should be able to unlock their smartphones, and that it would support legislation to make such adjustments legal.

The Obama administration said consumers deserve the flexibility to unlock their smartphones as well as their tablets, allowing consumers to use a device with a carrier other than the one they bought it from.

"It's common sense, crucial for protecting consumer choice, and important for ensuring we continue to have the vibrant, competitive wireless market that delivers innovative products and solid service to meet consumers' needs," the White House said in response to a petition.

Unlocking smartphones is particularly important to users who wish to sell their phones or buy used ones, the White House said.

In conjunction with the White House's response, Julius Genachowski, the chairman of the Federal Communications Commission, said his agency is encouraging Congress to consider a legislative solution.

"From a communications policy perspective, this raises serious competition and innovation concerns, and for wireless consumers, it doesn't pass the common-sense test," he said in a statement. "The FCC is examining this issue, looking into whether the agency, wireless providers, or others should take action to preserve consumers' ability to unlock their mobile phones."

The U.S. Copyright Office of the Library of Congress, which oversees copyright laws and declined to renew an exemption to a congressional act that bans smartphone unlocking, issued a response: "We also agree with the administration that the question of locked cellphones has implications for telecommunications policy and that it would benefit from review and resolution in that context."

Sina Khanifar, one of the people who started the petition that led to the response, said he had spoken with White House officials and was glad to hear of their support.

He said he encouraged the White House to push for amending Section 1201 of the Digital Millennium Copyright Act, which banned unlocking cellphones to protect proprietary software. The law was passed by Congress in 1998, but the Copyright Office, which reviews the act every three years, temporarily exempted unlocked phones from its provisions in 2006 and 2010.

"A lot of people reacted skeptically when I originally started the petition, with lots of comments to the effect of 'petitions don't do anything,'" Khanifar said. "The optimist in me is really glad to have proved them wrong."

Copyright © 2013, Los Angeles Times
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Old May 9th, 2013, 11:34 PM   #229 (permalink)
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Saw this article and thought I'd resurrect this thread!

Quote:
Bill would guarantee ability to unlock smartphones, tablets

By Chris O'Brien
4:06 PM PDT, May 9, 2013

In a move cheered by consumer advocates, a group of bipartisan legislators has introduced a bill in Congress that would ensure that users have the ability to unlock their smartphones and tablets in order to switch carriers.

The Unlocking Technology Act of 2013 (H.R. 1892) is co-sponsored by Reps. Zoe Lofgren (D-San Jose), Thomas Massie (R-Ky.), Anna G. Eshoo (D-Menlo Park) and Jared Polis (D-Colo).

"This bill reflects the way we use this technology in our everyday lives," Lofgren said in a news release. "Americans should not be subject to fines and criminal liability for merely unlocking devices and media they legally purchased. If consumers are not violating copyright or some other law, there’s little reason to hold back the benefits of unlocking so people can continue using their devices."

The bill would amend the Digital Millennium Copyright Act (DMCA) to make it clear that unlocking phones or tablets does not violate rules against modifying copyrighted works.

At the moment, Section 1201 of the DMCA blocks users from going around any technologies meant to prevent them from doing things like "jailbreaking" their phones to run someone else's app, for instance, or unlocking the phone so it can be used with a different carrier.

The Copyright Office can change the rules in this area every three years. In fact, in 2010, the office lifted the rules and allowed cellphone unlocking. Then it reinstated the ban on unlocking in 2013.

According to the sponsors, the Unlocking Technology Act would create a permanent exemption to the DMCA to make it legal for consumers to unlock their phones so they don't need to ask permission of carriers to switch to a new carrier.

"This bipartisan bill not only makes it clear that consumers can, of course, unlock their phones without fear of legal repercussions; it also addresses a longstanding problem with the Digital Millennium Copyright Act (DMCA). For too long, the DMCA has been a barrier to consumers, educators, researchers, and others, in ways that don't even protect artists," said Sherwin Siy, vice president of legal affairs for Public Knowledge, a consumer advocacy group. "Legal uses of copyrighted works shouldn't become illegal through a technicality, and fixing this flaw in the law prevents manufacturers from locking consumers in to particular products and service plans, as well as giving people the freedom to use their own media and devices in common sense ways."

Copyright © 2013, Los Angeles Times
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Old May 10th, 2013, 12:43 AM   #230 (permalink)
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Thanks for that MoodyBlues. I applaud this as being a desirable act.
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Old May 11th, 2013, 08:29 AM   #231 (permalink)
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Wow. Yet another victimless activity made criminal by the US government, who'da thunk it?

Most contract carriers (if not all) have early termination fees, charged if you decide to join up with a different carrier while you're still under contract with a contract phone, and it nearly always ends up with you paying more for the phone than you would have just buying it unlocked.. now if you do this and unlock your phone to use it with a carrier with reasonable prices, you can be fined thousands and possibly be put in jail.

In prison and thousands in debt.. over unlocking a phone!! Utterly and completely ridiculous.
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Old May 11th, 2013, 12:12 PM   #232 (permalink)
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It's great that they are drafting a bill to abolish this dcma law. It should never have passed in the first place.
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Old May 11th, 2013, 01:06 PM   #233 (permalink)
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Nahh they thought they slip it past not knowing that there are many out here that don't want it .
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Old May 11th, 2013, 02:02 PM   #234 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BRAINZ2013 View Post
Nahh they thought they slip it past not knowing that there are many out here that don't want it .
Luckily, those of us who understood it raised hell over it! I'm glad to see this latest development.
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