It's a real shame that Americans who never had to work for tips in their lives have such holier-than-thou ideas about denying the lower classes their right to a living wage in payment for services rendered. It's because of people like this that there's a need for mandatory service charges for large parties to begin with.
It's also worth noting that J.L. Kraft, the founder of Kraft foods, gave 90% of his income to the church in tithes instead of the nominal 10%.
I'm not a big fan of mandatory tips but 0%? What a bitch. I wonder where I'm going for saying that lol. This girl is trying to make a living and for whatever reason I don't understand, restaurants don't have to pay minimum wage so the waiter/ waitress has to rely on tips for most of their salary. If she was a terrible waitress I could understand a below par tip but 0%?And to use God as an excuse to get out of tipping your server .
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My local Applebee's is a crappy restaurant with even more crappier service and quality of food so I could care less
For the stories sake, waitress deserved what she got. Keep your opinion/religion out of work which relates to other customers lives, we don't care what you believe in, just serve us our damn food in a timely manner and don't be a beach about it in the process and you might earn a tip at the end.
Sometimes it actually makes sense to leave 0% tip. Before attacking me let me explain to you why. Mandatory tipping is a ridicules thing. Waiters are being tipped for a quality of service, if you wait for food for half an hour, food is cold, waiter is rude, messed up order, etc. etc. Why should I pay 18%. Here is an interesting reading Couple arrested after refusing to pay tip at Pennsylvania pub - DailyFinance
Here is a tip for you, if you end up in a very crappy situation at restaurant, just pay with credit card, either do not leave the signature at all all take all receipts. Dispute the charge, if restaurant has no prove (your signature) of you being there, then it means you were never there.
Last edited by unnamedny; February 2nd, 2013 at 03:05 AM.
I think tipping is mostly outdated, especially if one works for large corporation type of restaurants. They should pay the workers at least the going rate instead of having them rely on tips as part of income. After all, isn't tipping voluntary for the customer?
My local Applebee's is a crappy restaurant with even more crappier service and quality of food so I could care less
For the stories sake, waitress deserved what she got. Keep your opinion/religion out of work which relates to other customers lives, we don't care what you believe in, just serve us our damn food in a timely manner and don't be a beach about it in the process and you might earn a tip at the end.
It seems to me that it was the Pastor who brought her opinion/religion into the situation, not the worker. If the industry doesn't pay enough, then the tips ARE the servers' wages, and if you don't leave a tip then there won't be anyone to serve your "damn food".
From the story, it wasn't anything about the server being a "beach" in the process, but because she didn't earn a tip at the end. I don't blame her for outing the arrogant customer.
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The one who posted the receipt wasn't the server. The server showed the poster the receipt and the poster thought it was funny. It is funny - but she didn't black out enough.
What I don't get - it was posted as a large party, and the amount was under $35.00?
What did they do - just order coffee and dessert?
Ah, a coworker was telling me about this yesterday. I have a few thoughts:
-You should never ever ever post someone's check on social media. Complain in "general" terms about your job. Say "Hey, I got stiffed by this old lady at work today, FML" or something along those lines. But don't go blabbing about where you work or particulars of the customer. Just dumb.
-I don't work in service but I work in the restaurant industry. When I dine out, I'm generally a big tipper unless service (and food to an extent) is deplorable. These folks work their butts off. And, often for not a ton of money. You don't want to tip or think of it as charity, go to McDonalds. Understand, for the most part, these servers make ~$2-3 an hour so their livelihood is dependent on tips.
Like they say in the movie Waiting (which I LOVE ):
"Don't mess (yeah, it's not mess, use your imagination) with people who prepare your food"
Edit: One last thing, which I believe is starting to be implemented in certain places in NYC. INCLUDE tip/gratuity in the total like they do in many parts of the world (like France). It makes things far easier and less stressful. Some claim that you get lesser service. I thought things were fine everywhere we dined in Paris. Can they be a little short or abrupt? Sure. But, it's a cultural thing not to linger around the table or be all friendly which is fine with me.
It's a real shame that Americans who never had to work for tips in their lives have such holier-than-thou ideas about denying the lower classes their right to a living wage in payment for services rendered. It's because of people like this that there's a need for mandatory service charges for large parties to begin with.
It's also worth noting that J.L. Kraft, the founder of Kraft foods, gave 90% of his income to the church in tithes instead of the nominal 10%.
How do we do this? By "we" I mean paying customers. When I get good service, I tip. I usually leave a buck when I have a cup of coffee. I tip 15% at least and when I am with friends, the tip usually exceeds 20%.
If service is bad, I do not tip. Then I/we are remembered as a non-tippers and God only knows what will end up in our food the next time I visit.
I do feel for the "working poor."
Why should there be any mandatory charges? What do we/I do if the service stinks? Reward a bad worker for bad service?
What about a mandatory refund taken out of the service person's pay if he or she provides bad service?
How do we do this? By "we" I mean paying customers. When I get good service, I tip. I usually leave a buck when I have a cup of coffee. I tip 15% at least and when I am with friends, the tip usually exceeds 20%.
If service is bad, I do not tip. Then I/we are remembered as a non-tippers and God only knows what will end up in our food the next time I visit.
I do feel for the "working poor."
Why should there be any mandatory charges? What do we/I do if the service stinks? Reward a bad worker for bad service?
What about a mandatory refund taken out of the service person's pay if he or she provides bad service?
The problem is, because the tips are divided up between the workers, if you refuse to tip for some reason - say bad food - then the waiting staff will also lose money when it isn't their fault. Likewise, if the waitress is rude, etc, then the kitchen staff will lose money if you don't tip. The problem is the industry not paying enough. If the industry paid enough that tips weren't necessary, then tips would be a BONUS as a reward for exemplary service etc.
If someone is rude or your food is cold, complain to the manager, as they are responsible for their staff and the service they provide. For instance, if the food is cold, it could likely be because the management made an executive decision to hire less staff, and the workers are therefore run off their feet. And then people want to punish them for being overworked by not tipping.
The tips are paying their wages. If you have a complaint, take it up with management, get the bill reduced.
Maybe you should call the manager and refuse to pay for the food altogether as a protest, but then give the staff a tip.
The main issue with the opening story is that there was no complaint about the service nor the food, so the Pastor was just plain inconsiderate and unrighteously indignant. And uncharitably stingy towards the workers.
FYI, we're a fast casual restaurant (much like a Panera if you're familiar). We simply have nondescript tip jars at the cash registers. Tips are pooled among all the hourly staff not just the FOH. Seriously, it nearly amounts to almost an extra buck an hour for everyone! We very fairly and competitively pay everyone and it helps them devote more pride in their work and respect for us.
The service industry is incredibly stressful but can also be super rewarding. Like "Hey, I developed part of this software and who knows when it'll get out to the public or if they like it?"
Is far less instantly rewarding/motivating than, "I hope you enjoy your meal and have a great day", and seeing a "Thanks" and smile on their face. I love it, and hope the customer does too.
Just because she's a "lady of God" she gets the right to be a total douche to people and not only not tip, but insult the server as well? Please, the lady was a jerk and got called out on it.
The server shouldn't of posted it on the internet either. Common sense not to gripe about work on social media.
Both were in the wrong, the Pastor even more since she's trying to act like she's a victim, even though she was a total jerk to some random person for no reason. If it were bad service, she definitely would've cried her heart out about it in the article, but she's just being cheap and didn't want to tip.
IMO, the Pastor is acting like a 12 year old child. Trying to act tough in front of her friends by insulting someone on a receipt then running away before the server could say something back. Then demanding the server be fired after she got exposed as being a total jerk.
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Re: Should what happens at Applebee's stay at Applebee's?
A lot of the above lines up with my thoughts as well.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ParishL31
Trying to act tough in front of her friends by insulting someone on a receipt then running away before the server could say something back. Then demanding the server be fired after she got exposed as being a total jerk.
My thought or understanding was that she wanted the server who posted the receipt fired for posting her personal information (signature) that for all intents and purposes is confidential.
Don't get me wrong not defending anyone as they were both idiots (in completely different ways)....
Re: Should what happens at Applebee's stay at Applebee's?
Quote:
Originally Posted by dreadnatty08
Source? That's nuts!
"Some time on Wednesday, Chelsea says the customer who had left the receipt contacted her Applebee’s location, demanding that everyone be fired, from the servers involved to the managers."
Just because she's a "lady of God" she gets the right to be a total douche to people and not only not tip, but insult the server as well? Please, the lady was a jerk and got called out on it.
The server shouldn't of posted it on the internet either. Common sense not to gripe about work on social media.
Both were in the wrong, the Pastor even more since she's trying to act like she's a victim, even though she was a total jerk to some random person for no reason. If it were bad service, she definitely would've cried her heart out about it in the article, but she's just being cheap and didn't want to tip.
IMO, the Pastor is acting like a 12 year old child. Trying to act tough in front of her friends by insulting someone on a receipt then running away before the server could say something back. Then demanding the server be fired after she got exposed as being a total jerk.
Maybe service was bad, food un tasty, and who knows maybe waitress was rude in some way. I usually leave 15-20% tips, I know people who leave less. When service is a joke I leave 10%, but this rarly happenes. Here is a bottom line, she served a table of 6 and got the tips from 6 people, one left less, so what? There are tippers like that all around, there is nothing there to be done. There are articles online about a celebrity tippers and Tiger Woods leaves $1 on $700 bills. 10% does not sound so bad in this case.
If I went to restaurant and for whatever reason my receipt end up online, I'd be pissed. Wether it would be a very generous tip or a poor tip. Its damaging the image of a restaurant. I do not want to go to Applebee's now just because my receipt might end up online.
The way things should work, tips should be included in price of the dish, if someone wishes to leave something on top, they may.
Last edited by unnamedny; February 3rd, 2013 at 02:31 AM.
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My take? The waitress should be fired for posting the check online. Regardless of what a customer does, it should stay in the place of business unless it's fraud, in which case contact the police. The pastor OTH deserves all the angst she receives, she's a truly ugly individual. This also highlights the broken food service payment system in the US. The servers are now dependent on tips as part of their salary because the restaurant industry was successful in lobbying to reduce their minimum wage below all other industries. This has led to increased tipping by customers, mandatory tipping in some cases and confusion by tourists in the US and US tourist dining outside the US. A tip USED to be a small amount left for outstanding service received. Now it's a mandatory payment that causes many headaches for all involved. It just keeps getting worse as many restaurants sneak in a mandatory tip in the check in hope that it will be missed by the guest, who will then tip the now customary 18% on top of it. Including the tip in the check opens up a whole other can of worms as it's all to common to find out that those tips are kept by management and never dispersed to the server or team it was intended. What a broken system!
That this all happened at an Applebee's, a restaurant I wouldn't recommend to even my worse enemy is another issue. Greasy reheated trash, the signature riblets are one of the worst dishes I've ever been served in a restaurant. The only good thing I can say about Applebee's is that it's better than Friendly's.
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Last edited by pastafarian; February 3rd, 2013 at 07:42 AM.
I don't think that except for not blacking out enough, the 10% was such a big deal.
There are people that do tithe more than 10% - And bringing religion into it was stupid. She could have refused to tip with no comment.
I don't think that except for not blacking out enough, the 10% was such a big deal.
There are people that do tithe more than 10% - And bringing religion into it was stupid. She could have refused to tip with no comment.
I did not know that truth could be offensive :-). The one with fat chicks is funny. I just don't get it. If you have party of black guys, party of tall guys, skinny girls, etc. It would not be offensive, but for some reason it is, but in this case it was used as a distinguish attribute and nothing else.
In second scenario, they should even filed a police report for discrimination.
I just saw the image of the receipt on the second link. Made me giggle that she actually used her Pastor title in her signature like she's better than normal people.
Quote:
Originally Posted by unnamedny
Maybe service was bad, food un tasty, and who knows maybe waitress was rude in some way. I usually leave 15-20% tips, I know people who leave less. When service is a joke I leave 10%, but this rarly happenes. Here is a bottom line, she served a table of 6 and got the tips from 6 people, one left less, so what? There are tippers like that all around, there is nothing there to be done. There are articles online about a celebrity tippers and Tiger Woods leaves $1 on $700 bills. 10% does not sound so bad in this case.
If I went to restaurant and for whatever reason my receipt end up online, I'd be pissed. Wether it would be a very generous tip or a poor tip. Its damaging the image of a restaurant. I do not want to go to Applebee's now just because my receipt might end up online.
The way things should work, tips should be included in price of the dish, if someone wishes to leave something on top, they may.
I totally agree with the whole tipping issue as that's pretty much how I tip too, I was just more upset that this lady was rude enough to leave a condescending insult in addition. Leaving rude insulting messages is not necessary at all and is just childish and mean. If you have that big of a problem with the server confront them in person and get the manager involved.
Why is it that those who deem themselves the most "Godly" among us seem so often to be the most tone deaf to what Jesus was actually about? I'm not religious _at all_, but I'm sure stiffing a poor waitress in the name of God wasn't what he had in mind.
And demanding the staff be fired? What happened to forgiveness? the "pastor" must have been absent from Sunday school that day, I guess.
How do we do this? By "we" I mean paying customers. When I get good service, I tip. I usually leave a buck when I have a cup of coffee. I tip 15% at least and when I am with friends, the tip usually exceeds 20%.
Then you're doing your part.
Quote:
If service is bad, I do not tip. Then I/we are remembered as a non-tippers and God only knows what will end up in our food the next time I visit.
Most experts advise giving a lower tip, and maybe even explaining why the tip is low. If you don't tip at all, they may think that you just forgot.
There's nothing wrong with tipping in line with the level of service. But sometimes I see people withhold tips because of the food quality, decor and other things that the server has no power over. In those cases it isn't fair to punish the server.
Quote:
Why should there be any mandatory charges?
Because large groups use up a lot of wait staff, and are most likely to "forget" to tip. It's there because too many people have stiffer their wait staff in the past. Maybe it's not the best solution, but let's not forget that something caused it.
Quote:
What about a mandatory refund taken out of the service person's pay if he or she provides bad service?
Docking the salary of a person who can make anywhere from a couple bucks an hour to nothing at all isn't much of a punishment.
The art of tipping has worked well enough for a very long time. If it ain't broke, don't fix it.
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I've never been in a restaurant that has mandatory service charges added to the final bill. I think this is something that should be at the customer's discretion, whether they want to pay any gratuities or not. If I ever come across such a thing, I'd seriously think twice about eating in that establishment.
Normally in China you don't pay tips anyway, and nor are they expected. BTW it's often the reason why many Americans(of if they think you're American) tend to get charged higher prices here, or just ripped off. Probably because Chinese seem to think Americans like to give money away(generous tips) and therefore they must be rich.
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Last edited by mikedt; February 4th, 2013 at 07:04 AM.
My philosophy is if service is THAT bad, instead of no tip or a super low one, ask to speak to a manager and explain why it was. Not only will (well hopefully) the staffmember get retrained or reprimanded, you may actually get something comp'd on your bill.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mikedt
I've never been in a restaurant that has mandatory service charges added to the final bill. I think this is something that should be at the customer's discretion, whether they want to pay any gratuities or not. If I ever come across such a thing, I'd seriously think twice about eating in that establishment.
Normally in China you don't pay tips anyway, and nor are they expected. BTW it's often the reason why many Americans(of if they think you're American) tend to get charged higher prices here, or just ripped off. Probably because Chinese seem to think Americans like to give money away(generous tips) and therefore they must be rich.
I hear ya! The mandatory gratuity started in some restaurants for large groups (10+). I've seen the group size lower to in some cases parties greater than 4 (!!). Often the notification of the charge is snuck in as small print somewhere on the menu or check in the hope you won't see it and tip ion top of it. On cruise ships, the gratuity is now built in to almost everything. Even though it's listed as "gratuity", it no longer is ( it's a backhanded price increase) and you're still expected to tip on top of that. I don't. I'm usually a good tipper and will exceed 18% for good service, much more if exceptional. If there's a mandatory gratuity? That's it! No matter how good the service, I will not exceed the mandatory amount and I will explain that to the server and management. I also will explain that having a mandatory gratuity policy will negatively effect my decision to return.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pastafarian
I hear ya! The mandatory gratuity started in some restaurants for large groups (10+). I've seen the group size lower to in some cases parties greater than 4 (!!). Often the notification of the charge is snuck in as small print somewhere on the menu or check in the hope you won't see it and tip ion top of it. On cruise ships, the gratuity is now built in to almost everything. Even though it's listed as "gratuity", it no longer is ( it's a backhanded price increase) and you're still expected to tip on top of that. I don't. I'm usually a good tipper and will exceed 18% for good service, much more if exceptional. If there's a mandatory gratuity? That's it! No matter how good the service, I will not exceed the mandatory amount and I will explain that to the server and management. I also will explain that having a mandatory gratuity policy will negatively effect my decision to return.
Most of the restaurants I use around here, are often family run and staffed by family members. The exception is usually the franchised places, but tips are not expected and nor are they mandatory. When I was in the UK, I would sometimes tip. I never came across mandatory service charges there.
BTW I will often tip the taxi drivers around where I'm living, because most of them know me and the standard metered fare is ridiculously low. Even a 50% tip is hardly anything.
Re: Should what happens at Applebee's stay at Applebee's?
There's 3 things in play with the whole tipping issue.
The first thing is that customers feel that tipping is their right, and there has been many cases of backlash found on the internet about mandatory gratuity. Personally, I hate the idea of it being mandatory because it gives little incentive for the staff to actually do a good job. If service is bad, you can complain; however there's no guarantee that you bill will be adjusted and you're the one who gets stiffed. Sure, you could choose not to come back, but they already got your money.
The second thing is that tips have become semi-mandatory because restaurants pay below state minimum wage. I don't know how they pulled this one off and how state legislatures or the department of labor hasn't stepped in and put an end to this practice. There's a reason why it's called minimum wage. I do wonder if no one tipped, would the restaurants be required to give them money to make it back up to minimum wage or else be found in violation of the law?
The third thing in play is that restaurants don't have to pay less than minimum wage, but do so in order to keep food prices low. So would customers be willing to pay more for the food if they didn't feel obligated to leave a tip?
There's 3 things in play with the whole tipping issue.
The first thing is that customers feel that tipping is their right, and there has been many cases of backlash found on the internet about mandatory gratuity. Personally, I hate the idea of it being mandatory because it gives little incentive for the staff to actually do a good job. If service is bad, you can complain; however there's no guarantee that you bill will be adjusted and you're the one who gets stiffed. Sure, you could choose not to come back, but they already got your money.
The second thing is that tips have become semi-mandatory because restaurants pay below state minimum wage. I don't know how they pulled this one off and how state legislatures or the department of labor hasn't stepped in and put an end to this practice. There's a reason why it's called minimum wage. I do wonder if no one tipped, would the restaurants be required to give them money to make it back up to minimum wage or else be found in violation of the law?
The third thing in play is that restaurants don't have to pay less than minimum wage, but do so in order to keep food prices low. So would customers be willing to pay more for the food if they didn't feel obligated to leave a tip?
Just things to think of.
Exactly. If restaurants were forced to pay a reasonable wage, then tipping would be as it should be - a reward for good service. The price of food would be more expensive but then you wouldn't be expected to tip - only if you felt you wanted to because the waiting staff made your meal a more pleasant experience. You would be essentially paying the same for your meal as you are now with mandatory gratuity (which sounds like an oxymoron to me) but you would not be deceived into thinking that the cost of paying wages and preparing your food is as cheap as the present system suggests.
This way, service staff would have better morale from the get-go because they wouldn't be receiving their lowly miserable wages that no doubt has a negative psychological effect on their self-worth, and they would be in a better position to make the diners feel welcome and happy because they would be happier in themselves. Then tipping would be an incentive to even greater quality of service.
This is an all round better proposition for everyone.
Jhawk, don't know if we're the exception or not, but if our delivery drivers (who are paid just slightly below min. wage, ~$6/hr I think) don't make at least min wage, we pay the difference. Granted, this has never happened and they make a ton with tips, but it's how we operate.
One other thing to keep in mind, is in the world of Yelp, if you have bad service, folks will find out and you're business will fail.
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Re: Should what happens at Applebee's stay at Applebee's?
I'm not sure what the general rule is, but it seems you delivery drivers make more than a lot do. I know my cousin only made $3.50 per hour when state min is 7.25(and might go up). One thing some place do is institute a delivery charge, which is not part of the tip.
Yep, we have a $3 delivery charge which a TON of people scoff at. Hey, well then order from Domino's or Pizza Hut. Wait, they charge too!
We also give them a milege incentive too I believe. Trust me, these guys ain't hurtin.
One other thing. We do a considerable amount of catering. Sometimes, the totals can be well over $1k. Often those idiots tip like $10 which is atrocious. I really feel bad for the drivers then.
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Excuse me for my ignorance, but what is the point of having a minimum wage if it is not adhered too?
I agree completely with davoid, everyone should be paid that minimum amount while tipping should then be an optional extra depending on how good the service is!
I do leave a tip, usually around 10% which I believe is customary over here, but then the people serving us are paid a minimum wage!
I'm not a server, but was told by a friend who had been a waitress for years, that if a server does not get an 8% tip, they are losing out from their check.. she explained to me why but that was a year or so ago.
but I do not think gratuity should be 18% .. I like to tip based on how the service was.. from my understanding isn't that why tips started? To encourage servers to do a good job.. If I really like the service I get I'll give the wait person a 20% tip ... but if I am absolutely displeased with the service I will give as little as 0%.
One example of a time i gave 0%.. My girl and I were seated and got our drinks right away. 2 minutes later our waitress came back to take our order, but we had just barely looked at our menus, so she leaves.. 30 minutes later returns saying "sorry, forgot about you over here" We get our order in, and when it came out she asked us if she could get us anything.. and I asked for ketchup for fries she goes to get it and comes out with a bottle right away, but then gets distracted by another table, and ended up giving the ketchup to that table, then 10 minutes later brought one to us saying sorry again for forgetting. We finished just a few minutes later and wait another 20 minutes just sitting there waiting for our check, when finally a someone who worked there went by and I asked for the check. I signed my name and put 0.00 in the tip section and on the back of the receipt wrote "sorry i forgot the tip".
There has only been 3 times where I felt the service didn't deserve a tip and that is the worst of the 3.
But after working in a place where the customer is always right I quickly learned how often the customer is always wrong. And I think places need to stop encouraging people to get free things at the expense of the business. I worked in a grocery store for 5 years and though the motto was the customer is always right I stood by my belief that the customer could be wrong.
I never get confrontational at places, especially somewhere they serve food. Now I'm not sure if it's because I saw the movie "Waiting" or just my respect for people that are trying their best to work a lower income job.
Do I think the waitress should have taken it upon herself to post the picture online, no. But do I think she should have been fired, no.. I do believe it was a little bit of a selfish act with what the pastor did. But who knows how the service was, nothing was said about the service.
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She should definitely have blacked out everything except what the pastor wrote. At the least. I guess she broke a pretty serious rule, but I still feel bad for her. Its people like that pastor that give religious people a bad name. As an atheist, I don't have any issue at all with a person who believes, so long as they don't act like this lady.
As for tipping in general, I believe servers should be paid at least minimum wage. Because they shouldn't be so dependent on tips. Makes them bitter when they don't get what they think they deserve. And the very thought of restaurant staff doing ANYTHING to food that they serve is horrendous. I hated the movie Waiting because of the fact I know there are people that actually do that, and it disgusts me. I don't care how bad a customer is, be professional. Talk about them later, fine they deserve that. But tampering with food is atrocious.
Side note about pizza delivery: I absolutely tip in a restaurant, but it became a pet peeve of mine when dominos and pizza hut started charging for delivery. I have had friends and family that delivered for both, and I know they make a standard wage, not a servers wage. So I saw my $3 or so tip (depending on size of order, which is usually small) as a nice bonus. After the delivery charge, I no longer tip them. May be a little silly yeah. But they do make a standard wage, and a delivery charge is already collected. Besides, while they are delivering an order, they're not really serving like a waiter is. They're not coming back and forth to me, refilling my drinks, making sure the food is good and I have plenty of condiments and napkins and whatnot. I mean come on.
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Should what happens at Applebee's stay at Applebee's?
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