Go Back   Android Forums > Android Community > The Lounge
The Lounge We're all friends here. Hang out, kick your feet up and talk about whatever the heck you want!

Get excited for the Samsung Galaxy S5! Find everything you need and discuss it in our Galaxy S5 Forum!

Like Tree34Likes
  • 1 Post By Gmash
  • 1 Post By Clementine_3
  • 2 Post By Ssith
  • 4 Post By mikedt
  • 2 Post By Codegerm
  • 1 Post By Gmash
  • 2 Post By saptech
  • 1 Post By wyndslash
  • 3 Post By 9to5cynic
  • 2 Post By wyndslash
  • 2 Post By SiempreTuna
  • 3 Post By wyndslash
  • 1 Post By wyndslash
  • 5 Post By Unforgiven
  • 1 Post By Codegerm
  • 3 Post By Gmash

test: Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
Old August 15th, 2013, 11:09 AM   #1 (permalink)
Senior Member
Thread Author (OP)
 
Gmash's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: neither Here nor There
Gender: Male
Posts: 5,325
 
Device(s): Samsung Galaxy S3, Huawei Mercury (stock/rooted), Huawei Ascend (CM7 2.3.5 @710mhz)
Carrier: Cricket

Thanks: 2,116
Thanked 1,442 Times in 1,101 Posts
Default Google: Gmail users have no "reasonable expectation" of privacy(!)

So the days of "don't be evil" are officially over. Gmail is now only good for spam.

Google: don't expect privacy when sending to Gmail | Technology | The Guardian

People sending email to any of Google's 425 million Gmail users have no
"reasonable expectation" that their communications are confidential, the
internet giant has said in a court filing.
Consumer Watchdog, the advocacy group that uncovered the filing, called
the revelation a "stunning admission." It comes as Google and its peers
are under pressure to explain their role in the National Security Agency's
(NSA) mass surveillance of US citizens and foreign nationals.
"Google has finally admitted they don't respect privacy," said John
Simpson, Consumer Watchdog's privacy project director. "People should
take them at their word; if you care about your email correspondents'
privacy, don't use Gmail."
Google set out its case last month in an attempt to dismiss a class action
lawsuit that accuses the tech giant of breaking wire tap laws when it
scans emails sent from non-Google accounts in order to target ads to
Gmail users.
That suit, filed in May, claims Google "unlawfully opens up, reads, and
acquires the content of people's private email messages". It quotes Eric
Schmidt, Google's executive chairman: "Google policy is to get right up to
the creepy line and not cross it."
The suit claims: "Unbeknown to millions of people, on a daily basis and
for years, Google has systematically and intentionally crossed the 'creepy
line' to read private email messages containing information you don't
want anyone to know, and to acquire, collect, or mine valuable
information from that mail."
In its motion to dismiss the case, Google said the plaintiffs were making
"an attempt to criminalise ordinary business practices" that have been
part of Gmail's service since its introduction. Google said "all users of
email must necessarily expect that their emails will be subject to
automated processing."
MoodyBlues likes this.

__________________
"Machete don't text"
Gmash is offline  
Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to Gmash For This Useful Post:
Clementine_3 (August 15th, 2013)
sponsored links
Old August 15th, 2013, 11:20 AM   #2 (permalink)
Senior Member
 
Clementine_3's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Down in the park where the Machmen meet the machines and play 'kill by numbers'
Posts: 2,158
 
Device(s): Moto X developer edition
Carrier: Over-priced stooopid Verizon

Thanks: 465
Thanked 604 Times in 498 Posts
Default

There is no such thing as online privacy, never was. Google sells ads, it's what they've always done and it was never a secret. To sell ads you have to be able to target them, to target them you have to know to whom, to know that you have to "read" every keystroke of everything that goes through your (Google's) server. The first email sent on Gmail was 'scanned' and the first search on Google was 'scanned' for keywords in order to better target ads. It's not new, it shouldn't be a shock. Sure, they've honed the process and maybe include some stuff they shouldn't but they are no more sneaky than any other company, online or not. If I can say I like anything about all of this it is that at least Google is semi-upfront about it. But really, please don't think anything is yours and only yours and private, that went out the window (lol) in the 50's, today's technology just makes it more streamlined and faster.
Google is evil. Slightly less evil than most though.
MoodyBlues likes this.
Clementine_3 is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old August 15th, 2013, 01:46 PM   #3 (permalink)
Member
 
Join Date: May 2011
Posts: 264
 
Device(s):
Carrier: Not Provided

Thanks: 8
Thanked 76 Times in 59 Posts
Default

i have never understood why email was not protected like snail mail is as far as "you're not the recipient, you don't get to open it."
MoodyBlues and 9to5cynic like this.
Ssith is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old August 15th, 2013, 05:14 PM   #4 (permalink)
你好
 
mikedt's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Xilinhot, China 中国锡林浩特
Posts: 8,675
 
Device(s): Samsung Galaxy Win Duos, Lenovo P700i
Carrier: China Mobile, China Unicom.

Thanks: 2,952
Thanked 2,501 Times in 1,794 Posts
Send a message via Skype™ to mikedt
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ssith View Post
i have never understood why email was not protected like snail mail is as far as "you're not the recipient, you don't get to open it."
Because the email is effectively already open, unless its been encrypted in any way. Anyone can intercept and read an unencrypted email, it's plain text, and the recipient wouldn't even know


I tend to think of email as more like a postcard rather than being a latter in a sealed envelope. Anyone can read what's written on a postcard as there's nothing to open. I wouldn't put anything private and confidential on a postcard, and I treat email in exactly the same way.
__________________
The People's Guide to Android in the People's Republic.
Honorary Grand Poobah Shenzhen University English Corner.
http://welcometomychina.tumblr.com/
There are nine million bicycles in Beijing.
There are nine million Androids in Shenzhen.
mikedt is online now  
Last edited by mikedt; August 15th, 2013 at 05:24 PM.
Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to mikedt For This Useful Post:
anmire (August 19th, 2013)
Old August 15th, 2013, 05:22 PM   #5 (permalink)
- Crazy peacock person -
 
MoodyBlues's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: echo $HOME; California
Posts: 2,786
 
Device(s): Kindle Fire HD 8.9" (rooted), Motorola Atrix 2, Motorola Atrix 4G (retired), Motorola Bravo (retired
Carrier: AT&T

Thanks: 929
Thanked 1,364 Times in 822 Posts
Default

I reluctantly signed up for a GMail account when I got my first Android phone--because I HAD to in order to really do anything, like install apps.

But I never use that address for anything. AND I only access it via my e-mail client, so even if I did choose to send mail to someone from that account (and I never have), it wouldn't pass through Google's hands. It goes directly from my computer, through my outgoing mail server (I have Earthlink) and to the recipient. The only incoming mail I ever receive at that address is from Google (like a receipt for a Play Store purchase).

People I know who do use their GM accounts for real mail, I try to encourage to stop using the GM interface and instead use a real e-mail client to send and receive mail.
__________________
Info on Heartbleed bug; updated with helpful links


MoodyBlues is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old August 15th, 2013, 05:29 PM   #6 (permalink)
Senior Member
 
Codegerm's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Gainesville, FL
Gender: Male
Posts: 3,698
 
Device(s): Samsung Galaxy S II Running Jelly Bean GB27 32gig class 10 sd card
Carrier: Not Provided

Thanks: 181
Thanked 1,241 Times in 924 Posts
Default

I agree, email is basically a postcard. If you want reasonable privacy, you need to encrypt it. For that I use K9 with APG. Setting K9 to send as plain text, you can pass email through Gmail, Yahoo, etc with encryption just fine.
mikedt and MoodyBlues like this.
__________________
Codegerm

12 Pubs, 12 Pints, what could possibly go wrong?
Meet you at The World's End
If anyone has helped you, hit the "Thanks" button.
Codegerm is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old August 15th, 2013, 06:35 PM   #7 (permalink)
Senior Member
 
wyndslash's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Gender: Female
Posts: 4,284
 
Device(s): Note II
Carrier: Smart

Thanks: 345
Thanked 320 Times in 285 Posts
Default

for clarification purposes:

Yes, Gmail users have an expectation of privacy | The Verge
__________________
Like my avatar? I got it here: Android net custom icon pack series 3
wyndslash is online now  
Reply With Quote
Old August 15th, 2013, 07:32 PM   #8 (permalink)
Senior Member
Thread Author (OP)
 
Gmash's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: neither Here nor There
Gender: Male
Posts: 5,325
 
Device(s): Samsung Galaxy S3, Huawei Mercury (stock/rooted), Huawei Ascend (CM7 2.3.5 @710mhz)
Carrier: Cricket

Thanks: 2,116
Thanked 1,442 Times in 1,101 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by wyndslash View Post
I would call that a puff piece more than a clarification. Scanning your email to see what you are talking about so they can send you targeted ads is more than just the normal going through Google servers that the article seems to imply.
MoodyBlues likes this.
Gmash is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old August 15th, 2013, 07:37 PM   #9 (permalink)
I ain't nobody!
 
saptech's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Third Stone from the Sun
Posts: 3,545
 
Device(s): Motorola Moto G, Samsung Stratosphere, Galaxy Tab 2 SE.
Carrier: T-Mobile

Thanks: 572
Thanked 768 Times in 612 Posts
Default

I've never used any of the big boys (google, yahoo, MS hotmail) email for serious emails. I know none is really private but I use others for more serious emailing! I don't trust those mega corps. anymore.
MoodyBlues and jonbanjo like this.
__________________
Like it is...Yusef Lateef
saptech is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old August 15th, 2013, 07:41 PM   #10 (permalink)
Senior Member
 
wyndslash's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Gender: Female
Posts: 4,284
 
Device(s): Note II
Carrier: Smart

Thanks: 345
Thanked 320 Times in 285 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gmash View Post
I would call that a puff piece more than a clarification. Scanning your email to see what you are talking about so they can send you targeted ads is more than just the normal going through Google servers that the article seems to imply.
Not just targeted ads but also info for google now to work. I expect it in their terms of privacy as well as in the other email services. I just think the articles that make a big deal about it are taking selected snippets without considering the context for the sake of sensationalism.
MoodyBlues likes this.
wyndslash is online now  
Reply With Quote
sponsored links
Old August 15th, 2013, 10:31 PM   #11 (permalink)
Senior Member
 
9to5cynic's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: /home/
Posts: 4,858
 
Device(s): Galaxy S3 (Verizon) Evo 4G - retired/rooted
Carrier: Verizon

Thanks: 3,066
Thanked 1,762 Times in 1,189 Posts
Send a message via AIM to 9to5cynic
Default

I don't really see that big of a deal with this... from what I'm understanding, it's an automated process that finds keywords to target ads to you. The same thing google's been doing for years.

Now for me, most of my emails are just between a couple of people exchanging URLs along with our reactions. But, for anyone concerned about their emails remaining private....
gpg brah.

9to5cynic is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old August 15th, 2013, 10:45 PM   #12 (permalink)
Senior Member
 
wyndslash's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Gender: Female
Posts: 4,284
 
Device(s): Note II
Carrier: Smart

Thanks: 345
Thanked 320 Times in 285 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by 9to5cynic View Post
I don't really see that big of a deal with this... from what I'm understanding, it's an automated process that finds keywords to target ads to you. The same thing google's been doing for years.

Now for me, most of my emails are just between a couple of people exchanging URLs along with our reactions. But, for anyone concerned about their emails remaining private....
gpg brah.

Same here. I knew what I was getting into when I signed up for gmail and google now (which explicitly tells you that it reads your emails before you say yes or no)
UncleMike and MoodyBlues like this.
wyndslash is online now  
Reply With Quote
Old August 16th, 2013, 09:30 AM   #13 (permalink)
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 3,444
 
Device(s):
Carrier: Not Provided

Thanks: 45
Thanked 829 Times in 744 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Clementine_3 View Post
at least Google is semi-upfront about it
The Google definition of 'upfront': denying they cross the 'creepy line' for years then accidentally letting it slip that the do, regularly, in a legal defence document .. in a case about invasion of privacy

It is strange that people are so up-in-arms about the government capturing metadata about their comms to (we're told) protect them but don't seem in the slightest bit bothered about a private company mining not just metadata but also content just to more effectively make money out of them ..

Next we need Google to reveal their definition of 'evil' - I suspect it may be slightly different to OED's ..
MoodyBlues and saptech like this.
SiempreTuna is offline  
Last edited by SiempreTuna; August 16th, 2013 at 09:35 AM.
Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to SiempreTuna For This Useful Post:
Gmash (August 16th, 2013)
Old August 16th, 2013, 09:42 AM   #14 (permalink)
Senior Member
 
wyndslash's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Gender: Female
Posts: 4,284
 
Device(s): Note II
Carrier: Smart

Thanks: 345
Thanked 320 Times in 285 Posts
Default

This is a non issue if anyone cared to read the whole document or inderstand the context of that comment. The media does like to take snippets and blow them out of proportion. Besides, it's no good to trust any company. Being a skeptic will keep you alive most times.
MoodyBlues, 9to5cynic and saptech like this.
wyndslash is online now  
Reply With Quote
Old August 16th, 2013, 09:44 AM   #15 (permalink)
Senior Member
 
wyndslash's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Gender: Female
Posts: 4,284
 
Device(s): Note II
Carrier: Smart

Thanks: 345
Thanked 320 Times in 285 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by SiempreTuna View Post
The Google definition of 'upfront': denying they cross the 'creepy line' for years then accidentally letting it slip that the do, regularly, in a legal defence document .. in a case about invasion of privacy

It is strange that people are so up-in-arms about the government capturing metadata about their comms to (we're told) protect them but don't seem in the slightest bit bothered about a private company mining not just metadata but also content just to more effectively make money out of them ..

Next we need Google to reveal their definition of 'evil' - I suspect it may be slightly different to OED's ..
Most of google's services (books, music, tv) aren't available here so they can't make money off me

I do find that they provide me with good services (google now, maps) from the info I give them.
MoodyBlues likes this.
wyndslash is online now  
Reply With Quote
Old August 16th, 2013, 02:46 PM   #16 (permalink)
~Play Nice~
 
Unforgiven's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Douglas, MA
Gender: Male
Posts: 21,703
 
Device(s): Note II, S3, Moto X Developer Edition, Nexus 7 (2012 & 2013)
Carrier: Not Provided

Thanks: 13,136
Thanked 14,249 Times in 7,817 Posts
Default

Google's position on this has been the same since around 2004 when I joined. We serve up ads to support GMail, we target those ads based on the content of you email. We don't share the content of you email with third parties.
__________________

Join the fun and make some friends, register for free here.
If someone helped, hit Thanks, if you see rude or abusive posts, spam, or threads that need staff attention, hit Report.
Site Rules / Android Forums FAQ
*** Do you want to talk guns? ***

Unforgiven is online now  
Reply With Quote
Old August 16th, 2013, 04:22 PM   #17 (permalink)
Senior Member
 
Codegerm's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Gainesville, FL
Gender: Male
Posts: 3,698
 
Device(s): Samsung Galaxy S II Running Jelly Bean GB27 32gig class 10 sd card
Carrier: Not Provided

Thanks: 181
Thanked 1,241 Times in 924 Posts
Default

I never really get that concerned about it. I never send anything through normal email (Gmail, Yahoo, etc) that I wouldn't put on a postcard. The rest goes through my private email and encrypted. Any email I did for work stuff used the company's corporate email servers which is always encrypted.
MoodyBlues likes this.
Codegerm is offline  
Last edited by Codegerm; August 16th, 2013 at 04:24 PM.
Reply With Quote
Old August 16th, 2013, 06:00 PM   #18 (permalink)
Senior Member
Thread Author (OP)
 
Gmash's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: neither Here nor There
Gender: Male
Posts: 5,325
 
Device(s): Samsung Galaxy S3, Huawei Mercury (stock/rooted), Huawei Ascend (CM7 2.3.5 @710mhz)
Carrier: Cricket

Thanks: 2,116
Thanked 1,442 Times in 1,101 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by wyndslash View Post
Not just targeted ads but also info for google now to work. I expect it in their terms of privacy as well as in the other email services. I just think the articles that make a big deal about it are taking selected snippets without considering the context for the sake of sensationalism.
I can agree there is some sensationalism going on, but I still think most people don't realize this is going on and would think it is creepy. Thankfully I'm boring enough that I don't have anything to hide anyway lol.
MoodyBlues, saptech and wyndslash like this.
Gmash is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old August 17th, 2013, 07:12 AM   #19 (permalink)
Senior Member
 
wyndslash's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Gender: Female
Posts: 4,284
 
Device(s): Note II
Carrier: Smart

Thanks: 345
Thanked 320 Times in 285 Posts
Default

Same here.

Well, in essence, it /is/ creepy. :P
wyndslash is online now  
Reply With Quote
Old August 17th, 2013, 08:24 AM   #20 (permalink)
Senior Member
 
zuben el genub's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 4,762
 
Device(s): Nexus 4, Galaxy S 4G, Nexus S
Carrier: Not Provided

Thanks: 51
Thanked 870 Times in 700 Posts
Default

I use Gmail for some email, it's too hard to get certain friends to remember a new address. However, I signed up for FB and Twitter using a Yahoo account started for spam. I only look at 2 friends and my kid's moggies since she's bad about using dropbox for pix. I also use mail apps to get mail. I don't see ads.

I use no other services for Google. I just get apps. I don't need Now, Hangouts, or maps. Since Google Sky is abandonware and SkEye picked it up, I use SKEye.
I use the derivative Startpage Ixquick for search and Iron for the extra browser. I see Boat Browser is now allowing Duck Duck Go as an option. I have the alternate browsers as bookmarks and use them on Android anyway.
__________________
Sent by UFO
zuben el genub is offline  
Last edited by zuben el genub; August 17th, 2013 at 08:27 AM.
Reply With Quote
sponsored links
Old August 20th, 2013, 03:57 PM   #21 (permalink)
New Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: Netherlands
Gender: Male
Posts: 1
 
Device(s): Samsung Galaxy S2, Samung Galaxy Tab 7 2
Carrier: Vodafone

Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by MoodyBlues View Post
I reluctantly signed up for a GMail account when I got my first Android phone--because I HAD to in order to really do anything, like install apps.

But I never use that address for anything. AND I only access it via my e-mail client, so even if I did choose to send mail to someone from that account (and I never have), it wouldn't pass through Google's hands. It goes directly from my computer, through my outgoing mail server (I have Earthlink) and to the recipient. The only incoming mail I ever receive at that address is from Google (like a receipt for a Play Store purchase).

People I know who do use their GM accounts for real mail, I try to encourage to stop using the GM interface and instead use a real e-mail client to send and receive mail.
If you would send mail using your Gmail account through your Earthlink server, it would pass through their hands. And then, when the recipient replies to your Gmail, he is likely to quote your original text. But you never do, so this is hypothetical. Nevertheless, thought it worth mentioning.
tweakyleaks is offline  
Reply With Quote
Reply


Go Back   Android Forums > Android Community > The Lounge
Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 02:31 AM.
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.