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Old March 21st, 2011, 11:26 AM   #1 (permalink)
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Default HTC Thunderbolt Locked. Hello Bionic

Well, with news that HTC has locked the Thunderbolt down (thought it appears crackable) I see little reason not to move away from it and to the Bionic.

The Bionic's only negative I cared about against the Thunderbolt was the locked status of the Bionic. If they're equal (and now news that perhaps the Bionic is no more or less secure than the TB) then why not go for the phone with a bigger better, less battery drain, dual core, etc? Now if they'd just get the phone out.

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Old March 21st, 2011, 02:19 PM   #2 (permalink)
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Link to news it has a locked boot loader?
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Old March 21st, 2011, 02:29 PM   #3 (permalink)
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Dude, just Google "thunderbolt locked boot". It's all over the place now.
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Old March 21st, 2011, 02:36 PM   #4 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Agrajag View Post
Dude, just Google "thunderbolt locked boot". It's all over the place now.
Update: SIKE! HTC Thunderbolt Takes A Page From Moto’s Playbook: Bootloader Is Locked - Android Forums
So which is true? This says it is, but then recants and says it isnt.
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Old March 21st, 2011, 02:41 PM   #5 (permalink)
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I've heard that HTC has been toying with the idea, but no word that the TB was. As a matter of fact, it was rooted the day it released. I don't know if root has been made public yet as they were trying to find an easier way beforehand, but I don't think there's very much of an issue with the TB.
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Old March 21st, 2011, 02:49 PM   #6 (permalink)
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First, rooting and locked ROM's aren't the same thing. You can root many locked phones. See the Droid X for example.

Second, the facts seem pretty clear. The Thunderbolt has locked ROM's and then some. However, they've been unlocked though the process is NOT simple to do so. I jump through enough hoops already just maintaining an alternative ROM setup. I don't need a phone adding more to the equation. Thanks, but no thanks. If the phone were flawless outside this, hey, maybe. But it's not so I'm no longer interested. The Bionic seems like the right solution for the patient users out there.
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Old March 21st, 2011, 02:52 PM   #7 (permalink)
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Its been out for exactly 4 days. I doubt even the Evo had custom ROMs and kernals in 4 days. It will be done probably sometime in the near future.
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Old March 21st, 2011, 03:03 PM   #8 (permalink)
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Well, since the bootloader has been unlocked, it is only a matter of time before there is a once click method or something really easy to do.
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Old March 21st, 2011, 03:12 PM   #9 (permalink)
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I buy NOTHING based on what MIGHT happen. Again, the big plus of HTC phones was that they were playing ball with totally open phones. The fact is that this is no longer the case.

Now the process will be a bit more complex if possible at all. How complex is yet to be seen but the fact remains that many were looking at HTC simply because it meant a painless way to experience different ROM's, etc.
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Old March 21st, 2011, 08:54 PM   #10 (permalink)
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And you are expecting the Droid Bionic to be any better than the TB in terms of unlocked/unencrypted booloaders? Please, this is Motorola we are talking about.
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Old March 21st, 2011, 09:42 PM   #11 (permalink)
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I have to wonder if some people speak English here. NO. I do NOT expect the Bionic to be any better than the Thunderbolt in regard to this issue. THAT'S THE POINT!!!!

I DID expect the TB to be better than the Bionic at this and, now that it very well may not be, that's one huge benefit gone for the TB which already has a long list of other issues against it.

BTW, I'm far from alone in this view if you care to Google.
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Old March 22nd, 2011, 03:55 PM   #12 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Agrajag View Post
First, rooting and locked ROM's aren't the same thing. You can root many locked phones. See the Droid X for example.

Second, the facts seem pretty clear. The Thunderbolt has locked ROM's and then some. However, they've been unlocked though the process is NOT simple to do so. I jump through enough hoops already just maintaining an alternative ROM setup. I don't need a phone adding more to the equation. Thanks, but no thanks. If the phone were flawless outside this, hey, maybe. But it's not so I'm no longer interested. The Bionic seems like the right solution for the patient users out there.
Have a friend that has a TB, took him 30 minutes to root it and flash a new rom.....it is not locked

BTW...the 4g speed is outrageous and pretty sweet with the custom rom, but jury still out on the battery life...
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Old March 22nd, 2011, 04:19 PM   #13 (permalink)
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My boss has a TB as well. The speed is amazing and the battery is the other major concern.

Did he get Cyanogen running on it?
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Old March 22nd, 2011, 04:45 PM   #14 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by golfbiz View Post
Have a friend that has a TB, took him 30 minutes to root it and flash a new rom.....it is not locked

BTW...the 4g speed is outrageous and pretty sweet with the custom rom, but jury still out on the battery life...
You can root and install roms on phones with locked bootloaders. For example, the Droid X. What you can't do is install Roms with newer versions of the OS than have been officially released for that phone or install new kernals. The TB might not be locked, but rooting and roms have nothing to do with it.
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Old March 22nd, 2011, 06:22 PM   #15 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gwlaw99 View Post
You can root and install roms on phones with locked bootloaders. For example, the Droid X. What you can't do is install Roms with newer versions of the OS than have been officially released for that phone or install new kernals. The TB might not be locked, but rooting and roms have nothing to do with it.
He also installed new kernal with his TB, waiting on CM7, deleted all his bloatware, his bootloader is unlocked and he seems pretty excited about trying some of the stuff already being worked on, hopefully they will get a rom to improve the battery life as that is a deal killer with me as I just updated my droid eris to xtrsense 5.0 with new kernal, still love the sense experience, I would love to have the speed of 4g but otherwise I'm fine with overclocking for my wireless tethering...
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Old March 22nd, 2011, 06:56 PM   #16 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gwlaw99 View Post
You can root and install roms on phones with locked bootloaders. For example, the Droid X. What you can't do is install Roms with newer versions of the OS than have been officially released for that phone or install new kernals. The TB might not be locked, but rooting and roms have nothing to do with it.
You can still flash ROMs, just not ones that have their own custom kernels built into them. And from what I understood from DX owners, they have 2.3 ROMs out. I dunno, I haven't been over to they're thread at all, I'm getting most of that from what I've heard from them in this forum.
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Old March 22nd, 2011, 08:23 PM   #17 (permalink)
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You can still flash ROMs, just not ones that have their own custom kernels built into them. And from what I understood from DX owners, they have 2.3 ROMs out. I dunno, I haven't been over to they're thread at all, I'm getting most of that from what I've heard from them in this forum.
I think a locked bootloader is not the same as an encrypted one ... Most bootloaders are locked nowadays. I believe even the bootloader on the Samsung Galaxy S phones was locked. It just happened to be a super-wimpy-pansy lock.
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Old March 23rd, 2011, 08:20 AM   #18 (permalink)
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Have a friend that has a TB, took him 30 minutes to root it and flash a new rom.....it is not locked

BTW...the 4g speed is outrageous and pretty sweet with the custom rom, but jury still out on the battery life...
The jury can't call in with a verdict because they're using a TB that ran out of juice before lunch time.
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Old March 23rd, 2011, 09:57 AM   #19 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Bearly View Post
The jury can't call in with a verdict because they're using a TB that ran out of juice before lunch time.
Are you basing this on personal experience. If so, that's not a good sign ...
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Old March 23rd, 2011, 10:03 AM   #20 (permalink)
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The jury can't call in with a verdict because they're using a TB that ran out of juice before lunch time.
LOL....yeah my friend gets maybe 6 hours max right now using 4g...so my question is 4g the main culprit or the HTC battery or both? I know people expect a lot from these smart phones as I would be happy for 10 to 12 hours making it through the day. I have my phone hooked up at work, car, phone which it makes it no big deal, but leaving outside for the day would require a lot of management....as a result have to pass for now on the TB and will take a look at the Bionic when it hits...
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Old March 23rd, 2011, 10:30 AM   #21 (permalink)
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The boss here with his is acting like it's not a big deal on his TB as he's always plugging in wherever he goes. Easy for him. He's not the one that travels and I'm not the type to be plugged in at every opportunity. I need a phone that can at least get through a single day.
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Old March 23rd, 2011, 12:07 PM   #22 (permalink)
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Yeah...

I got a chance to play with a ThunderBolt at the corporate store and I recommend everyone go out and check it.

I ran Quadrant on it and it comes out around 1600-1700 most runs on two separate phones, most likely all in the CPU department since graphics was about the same FPS as my OG Droid (still better obviously).

But overall I cannot help but ask "so what?", the phone is MUCH snappier, I am not going to lie, it is about twice as fast to pickup and shoot into a program and load the program before my OG Droid is, but that is NOT worth 319 for me...

I mean come on, if I am dropping $300 I expect it to be damn nice upgrade compared to what I am using (you can blame Root for the fact my OG Droid gets 1150 Quadrant, which is apparently about 4-5x faster than it was when I first bought it)...

I want a Dual Core phone because I want something that has NEW tech, not just a snappier response time, and the dual core should also improve battery.

And the battery makes me gun shy on the TBolt.
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Old March 23rd, 2011, 01:33 PM   #23 (permalink)
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Yeah...

I got a chance to play with a ThunderBolt at the corporate store and I recommend everyone go out and check it.

I ran Quadrant on it and it comes out around 1600-1700 most runs on two separate phones, most likely all in the CPU department since graphics was about the same FPS as my OG Droid (still better obviously).

But overall I cannot help but ask "so what?", the phone is MUCH snappier, I am not going to lie, it is about twice as fast to pickup and shoot into a program and load the program before my OG Droid is, but that is NOT worth 319 for me...

I mean come on, if I am dropping $300 I expect it to be damn nice upgrade compared to what I am using (you can blame Root for the fact my OG Droid gets 1150 Quadrant, which is apparently about 4-5x faster than it was when I first bought it)...

I want a Dual Core phone because I want something that has NEW tech, not just a snappier response time, and the dual core should also improve battery.

And the battery makes me gun shy on the TBolt.
When we first got 2.2 on the rooted Droids, many of us were getting similar Quadrant scores with our Droids. I've personally gotten in the 1660s OCed to 1.1GHz (for some reason my Droid was stable at 1.2GHz, but would never run Quadrant at that speed). Others got into the 1700s at 1.2 (some claimed they could get 1800 with 1.3GHz OC, but those guys were very rare). For anyone that's wondering, I was on Liquid Froyo 1.7 at the time, using Slayer's 1.2GHz kernel.
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Old March 25th, 2011, 07:10 AM   #24 (permalink)
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Yeah the Devs are saying the Thunderbolt was the toughest HTC phone to unlock, but it is unlocked. So the Thunderbolt has a huge Dev following now, and the phone will have a lot of roms out shortly. MIUI and CM7 are already being worked on.

If the Bionic's bootloader wasn't encrypted then I am sure it would have a huge Dev following as well. But I bet a lot will stay away because of the Milestone and Droid X,2. Really a shame that it is encrypted though.
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Old March 28th, 2011, 01:31 AM   #25 (permalink)
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Yeah the Devs are saying the Thunderbolt was the toughest HTC phone to unlock, but it is unlocked. So the Thunderbolt has a huge Dev following now, and the phone will have a lot of roms out shortly. MIUI and CM7 are already being worked on.

If the Bionic's bootloader wasn't encrypted then I am sure it would have a huge Dev following as well. But I bet a lot will stay away because of the Milestone and Droid X,2. Really a shame that it is encrypted though.
Yep. Always a disappointment. Locking it doesn't really do anything to serve Motorola. I mean, rooting and modding will get around bloat and DRM stuff anyways. The only thing they are doing by encrypting the bootloader is turning off hardcore enthusiast users, devs, and modders from purchasing the device. I don't see how this "protects" their common end user one bit. I mean the average user that is not going to root is also not going to give a rat's buttoot whether it has an encrypted bootloader or not.

The original droid sold so well, did so well, and is pleasing the living crap out of so many. Stock users loved it. Rooters and modders loved it. All Motorola is doing is pushing away some of that love.

With the iPhone on Verizon, I would think Android phone manufacturers, especially Motorola with their largest customer base on Verizon, would do ANYTHING in their power to attract MORE customers, not less.

Oh well. The Bionic's screen is going to suck anyways if it's just a larger version of the Atrix. In fact, it will just suck even more than the Atrix by making the pentile effect more pronounced and the screen less sharp.

The combination of those factors and others actually makes me want the Stealth or Revolution even more, despite the fact that they are single core. At least they will have fantastic screens, like the Thunderbolt.

qHD would be great if it didn't suck at color reproduction and viewing angles. The screen on the TB, even though less resolution, is much nicer on the eyes. I did quite a bit of comparing, even in sun.

TB users, the only regrets to buying the TB over the Bionic are HDMI out, battery life, and possibly the lack of dual core.

Although I must tell you that on the Atrix - at least the one I tested - that the qHD seems to make some apps/games lag a bit more than they should on a dual core tegra. And in addition, scrolling through things such as homescreens and the app drawer actually seemed smoother on the TB than on the Atrix. It shouldn't be that way, and the Atrix wasn't bad, the TB just felt smoother at some things. And I did not expect it to be this way.
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Old March 28th, 2011, 05:16 AM   #26 (permalink)
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Can you please show us a review of the Atrix that criticizes the display? I haven't seen it.

Also, to my knowledge the qHD is just a resolution not a display technology like lcd or ips.

I dont think qHD necessarily means Pentile Matrix and given that different size displays can use different tech, its possible for the 4.3" qHD to use a different panel than the one in the Atrix. Knowing the history of product releases I wont hold out hope though, but someome told me via PM that he saw the Bionic at CES and the screen was amazing.

Android mfgrs seem to cut too many corners in the interest of flooding the market with their products.

I actually wrote to HTC about this and got a response asking to apply as a product tester. That's not what I want. I want them to put out a good product, not give me a near production unit to QA.
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Old March 28th, 2011, 06:59 AM   #27 (permalink)
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Also keep in mind that you posted this in the LG Revolution forum:

Quote:
Originally Posted by SirKronan View Post
x
On a side note, I played with an Atrix yesterday.

I want THAT phone on Verizon. Bootloader be damned. The thing is amazing. Perfect form factor. Razor sharp screen. Fingerprint unlock. Sensational battery life. Fast.

Wow. AT&T still sucks. But wow, Motorola.
All the praise for the Atrix could likely apply to the Bionic, so why insinuate otherwise?

Lets wait until the phone is out.

EDIT: Although I am sure most of us are adults, I'm aware that words are misconstrued over the net and most people post from work, possibly right after a stressful event they just dealt with, which would increase the chances for misinterpretation...

So, just wanted to say that I wasn't trying to "out" you in any way, but that I too am really excited/anxious about the Bionic's screen, and that your words were incongruent with another report I read from someone who handled the device at CES.

Let's hope the display looks stellar
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Old March 28th, 2011, 11:06 AM   #28 (permalink)
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For me, I'm happy with the Droid's display so as long as it doesn't go backwards from that then I'm really not concerned about that aspect.

Motorola's main concern from my vantage point is that the always seem to screw up royally at some point. The encrypted bootloader is one point. Consider their more recent news that they may abandon Android entirely to develop their own OS. Total stupidity and that tells you how much they care about Android users.

Here's a company that was on the verge of vanishing. It was that bad. They then move to Android and light the world on fire with the Droid and Droid X only to now think it was all about them and them alone. I have ZERO interest in a Motorola phone that doesn't have Android. Motorola is known for making tanks and I want an Android-based tank. Not a tank that can't be driven anywhere.
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Old March 28th, 2011, 11:36 AM   #29 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bearly View Post
Also keep in mind that you posted this in the LG Revolution forum:



All the praise for the Atrix could likely apply to the Bionic, so why insinuate otherwise?

Lets wait until the phone is out.

EDIT: Although I am sure most of us are adults, I'm aware that words are misconstrued over the net and most people post from work, possibly right after a stressful event they just dealt with, which would increase the chances for misinterpretation...

So, just wanted to say that I wasn't trying to "out" you in any way, but that I too am really excited/anxious about the Bionic's screen, and that your words were incongruent with another report I read from someone who handled the device at CES.

Let's hope the display looks stellar
It looked fine when I had it solo, but later I got the chance to compare it side by side with the screen on my Fascinate and the screen on the TB as well. The colors just weren't as good. It does look sharp, but the colors and contrast aren't there. I didn't think the viewing angles were as good either. It's not a horrible screen. I suppose like anything it's going to depend on personal preference. Heavy web surfers will likely appreciate the added resolution and battery life.

Now, I'm not trying to be mean or anything, but your comment here is a little inconsistent as well, but only half of that praise could be applied to the Bionic - VZ/Moto tossed the form factor and fingerprint reader out the window.

As for the pentile matrix, pentile is simply a type of patented subpixel matrix scheme. Have a look at the description as well as the macro photos:

The Motorola Atrix 4G Preview - AnandTech :: Your Source for Hardware Analysis and News

My eyes are sharp enough to see the pentile matrix in action, and it really annoyed me at first on the Fascinate until I became accustomed to it. Pretty soon you don't see the pentile patterns. You just see letters and symbols. It's really only prominent in straight lines and text, especially black on white or white on black.

And the Atrix screen is still sharp because it's a 4" screen - same size as Fascinate - but with qHD resolution. When you bump the screen up to 4.3" you're going to lose a bit of that sharpness, and the pentile effect (assuming they use that subpixel pattern) will be even slightly more pronounced.

Anyways, to each his own. I would still consider the Atrix if it were on Verizon, but I don't expect I'll like the Bionic all that well, with the absence of half the RAM, the bulkier form factor, and the locked bootloader. We'll see though. It still has HDMI out, and is likely going to have great battery life.

Verizon and their phone choices are sure making things difficult. I want the GSII on Verizon, WITHOUT fat, battery hungry LTE tech ...

Edit: And you asked in your post above for a comprehensive review on the Atrix screen that criticizes it. I will again say that it's not a bad screen, but it's not as good as others. Look at that same AnandTech review I posted above, and you'll see that the Droid X beats the Atrix in every single screen test category, minus resolution. Better blacks, better whites, better contrast overall.

So the Atrix screen is sharp, but compared to others the colors don't quite "pop" and the blacks/whites simply aren't as good. My criticisms stand and are well-founded on personal testing and based on the research of others.

At least this time. Who knows what falsehoods I'll be spouting tomorrow!
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Old March 28th, 2011, 03:07 PM   #30 (permalink)
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Thanks for the reply. I read AT daily (daily!) and have seen that Preview. However, I disagree with them on a few things and that's namely their screen tests:

They list the Droid X and Droid 2 as having higher brightness than the Fascinate, which I can honestly say (I own a Fascinate and friend's own X and the D2) is just plain wrong. The contrast is also better on the Fascinate. I have no clue how they're measuring their data but it's simply wrong; the Fascinate is substantially brighter than either of those two and is even better in sunlight.

Again, I hope the Bionic is a nice phone, despite having an encrypted bootloader. I don't think I'll get an LTE phone until I see a 4" qHD screen and at LEAST 1 GB RAM to be honest. My Fascinate has what, 384 MB RAM free? I can't play a game or and come back to Home without screen redraws which can take a while. Really annoying.
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Old March 28th, 2011, 03:29 PM   #31 (permalink)
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The smaller RAM on Galaxy S is due to allocating some part of it to PowerVR 540 GPU in Hummingbird processor. So it's full size is still 512Mb. Doesn't Tegra2 based phone allocate some part of RAM to its GeForce GPU too?
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Old March 28th, 2011, 07:03 PM   #32 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bearly View Post
Thanks for the reply. I read AT daily (daily!) and have seen that Preview. However, I disagree with them on a few things and that's namely their screen tests:

They list the Droid X and Droid 2 as having higher brightness than the Fascinate, which I can honestly say (I own a Fascinate and friend's own X and the D2) is just plain wrong. The contrast is also better on the Fascinate. I have no clue how they're measuring their data but it's simply wrong; the Fascinate is substantially brighter than either of those two and is even better in sunlight.

Again, I hope the Bionic is a nice phone, despite having an encrypted bootloader. I don't think I'll get an LTE phone until I see a 4" qHD screen and at LEAST 1 GB RAM to be honest. My Fascinate has what, 384 MB RAM free? I can't play a game or and come back to Home without screen redraws which can take a while. Really annoying.
You might be right about the Fascinate being brighter, and on the actual total contrast ratio I believe the Galaxy S phones are absent, perhaps because a true brightness of zero yields an otherworldly higher true contrast ratio. And photos and video certainly look more vibrant (hehehe) on SuperAMOLED. My point was simply comparing the above to the Atrix screen left me MOST disappointed with the Atrix, other than one single factor - sharpness. And when the Bionic takes that screen and makes it bigger, they are taking some of the ONLY advantage that screen had over the others to begin with. Bad move.

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Originally Posted by jinwons View Post
The smaller RAM on Galaxy S is due to allocating some part of it to PowerVR 540 GPU in Hummingbird processor. So it's full size is still 512Mb. Doesn't Tegra2 based phone allocate some part of RAM to its GeForce GPU too?
Whether it does or not, this is one case where we DO want more gee bee's, regardless!
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Motorola DROID BIONIC
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When the Motorola Droid Bionic was first announced at CES 2011, it featured a 4.3-inch qHD display, NVIDIA Tegra 2 dual-core processor clocked at 1GHz, and support for Verizon's 4G LTE high-speed network. After the handset was delayed, Motorola... Read More



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