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Old March 17th, 2012, 05:48 PM   #1 (permalink)
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Default Free WiFi hotspot (no root needed)

for anyone who is not aware, there is now an app that allows you to turn on your wifi hot spot feature of your phone without rooting your phone. its called FoxFi

market link https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.foxfi&hl=en

no rooting, no fees, easy to use and works great on my bionic

enjoy

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Old March 17th, 2012, 09:08 PM   #2 (permalink)
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Been out for awhile now, and works great.
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Old March 19th, 2012, 12:12 PM   #3 (permalink)
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news to me. thanks.
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Old March 19th, 2012, 12:32 PM   #4 (permalink)
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Can't get it to work. Tried hooking up my laptop to the hotspot. Shows as unsecured and limited access at first. then I got the limited access message to clear but NO websites ever show up on my laptop. uninstalled. app needs work


I reinstalled the app and tried it with my touch. it works fine and DL speed is 9Mbs. tried it with the wife's lappy and got 16Mb after an initial problem similar to that on my own laptop.

I hope Verizon doesn't send the Hotspot Police after me...
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Old March 19th, 2012, 10:40 PM   #5 (permalink)
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Installed the app last week and works like a champ. I was impressed at how fast video streamed to my laptop with my Dishsling adapter.
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Old March 21st, 2012, 12:05 AM   #6 (permalink)
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THis is an awesome app. I had it for my Samsung Charge and it worked wonders. I switched to the Bionic a couple o fmonths ago and it didnt have support back then, but now it does!!!
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Old March 21st, 2012, 09:31 AM   #7 (permalink)
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see my additional notes on my previous post.
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Old March 21st, 2012, 10:42 AM   #8 (permalink)
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Works great for me on my Bionic.
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Old March 21st, 2012, 10:52 AM   #9 (permalink)
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How does this work without paying for a hotspot plan? Are there possible repercussions?

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Old March 22nd, 2012, 09:04 AM   #10 (permalink)
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This works perfect on my Bionic as well!
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Old March 22nd, 2012, 12:52 PM   #11 (permalink)
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It works great on mine. I would still like to know the repercussions of using it. Surely, VZW has a way to tell if you are using it.

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Old March 23rd, 2012, 07:14 PM   #12 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by may2700 View Post
for anyone who is not aware, there is now an app that allows you to turn on your wifi hot spot feature of your phone without rooting your phone. its called FoxFi

market link https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.foxfi&hl=en

no rooting, no fees, easy to use and works great on my bionic

enjoy
Thanks for that bro, you Rock! Now my Galaxy Tab can come out and play once again
WOO HOO
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Old March 23rd, 2012, 07:24 PM   #13 (permalink)
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It works great on mine. I would still like to know the repercussions of using it. Surely, VZW has a way to tell if you are using it.

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Old March 23rd, 2012, 07:59 PM   #14 (permalink)
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It works great on mine. I would still like to know the repercussions of using it. Surely, VZW has a way to tell if you are using it.
They know how much data you transfer. If it turns astronomical they might choose to do something (or not).

There have been scattered reports in other forums of transfer rates being throttled down (like 512K download) by Verizon. I have not heard of any consist application of this.

Since I choose to abide by the agreement I made with Verizon I have no further information.

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Old March 23rd, 2012, 09:16 PM   #15 (permalink)
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They know how much data you transfer. If it turns astronomical they might choose to do something (or not).

There have been scattered reports in other forums of transfer rates being throttled down (like 512K download) by Verizon. I have not heard of any consist application of this.

Since I choose to abide by the agreement I made with Verizon I have no further information.

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Old March 24th, 2012, 12:37 AM   #16 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Thom Little View Post
They know how much data you transfer. If it turns astronomical they might choose to do something (or not).

There have been scattered reports in other forums of transfer rates being throttled down (like 512K download) by Verizon. I have not heard of any consist application of this.

Since I choose to abide by the agreement I made with Verizon I have no further information.

... Thom
Well to be honest too Thom, if you pay for a 4GB data package, you should be able to use 4GB of data regardless if it's just the phone or using the phone as a hotspot.

Paying extra to use something thats already built into the phone that you already paid for and data you have already paid for is double charging.
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Old March 24th, 2012, 06:25 AM   #17 (permalink)
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Well to be honest too Thom, if you pay for a 4GB data package, you should be able to use 4GB of data regardless if it's just the phone or using the phone as a hotspot.

Paying extra to use something thats already built into the phone that you already paid for and data you have already paid for is double charging.
From Verizon's point of view, you are paying for 4GB for a single device, not to be shared with multiple devices. If you want multiple connections at once, they want more money.

Think of it this way: if you have multiple devices all trying to access data at once, Verizon needs to provide more backhaul bandwidth for the tower you are connected to, and that costs them more. I think people forget that the bandwidth to the tower itself is not infinite.

The other way that they could price a data package is to assume that everyone will hotspot and charge everybody more, and that's unfair to the many users who do not want to hotspot.
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Old March 24th, 2012, 06:37 AM   #18 (permalink)
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Yes ... that is the rationalization that I have read over and over from people reinterpreting what they previously agreed to.

Their ultimate argument is that the air is free so your cellular service should be free and available to everyone no matter how much you use. How dare those big corporations dare to charge us for anything. Some people are running five PCs on a phone with "no charge" hotspot.

Like most things in life ... there is a choice ... do what you agree to ... or ignore when it suits you.

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Old March 24th, 2012, 10:09 AM   #19 (permalink)
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Yes ... that is the rationalization that I have read over and over from people reinterpreting what they previously agreed to.

Their ultimate argument is that the air is free so your cellular service should be free and available to everyone no matter how much you use. How dare those big corporations dare to charge us for anything. Some people are running five PCs on a phone with "no charge" hotspot.

Like most things in life ... there is a choice ... do what you agree to ... or ignore when it suits you.

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I don't remember using the word free. I don't want anything for free. I paid for my phone and I am more than happy to have done so. I have paid for my data, and am happy to have done so. What I don't like is being told that to use the tools I already paid for (once again, not something I want for free), I have to pay extra though Verizon has not provided anything additional.

Now I do not understand all of what Doogald was meaning by backhaul bandwidth and such. I also do not believe people will be running multiple devices on a cell phone as a hotspot, not as a general rule.

What I do understand is I bought a phone Verizon went out of there way to advertise as a mobile hotspot and I am paying $30 a month for a data package. If I need to connect my laptop so I can access something at school, I am using no more bandwidth than if I was downloading something directly with my phone, I am in no way cheating Verizon out of anything.

So please do not insinuate I am looking for anything for free.
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Old March 24th, 2012, 10:31 AM   #20 (permalink)
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I never insulated anything. I made no value judgment of what you are or are not doing. My statement was relative to the general statement and not to you.

The answer to your question is that the rates were established by Verizon based on estimated use. IF the use is going to go astronomical then you should expect the basic data cost to increase.

The difficulty for me is that I entered into an agreement with Verizon. I don't think it is up to me to reinterpret that agreement. If I don't want to continue what I agreed to then it is up to me to terminate the agreement and go with some supplier who has an agreement with which I can agree.

What am I missing?

Maybe I'm wrong and you can set me straight ... where does it say I can use my grandfathered unlimited data access for five PCs connected to my Bionic without my Mobile Hotspot?

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Old March 24th, 2012, 11:01 AM   #21 (permalink)
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Now I do not understand all of what Doogald was meaning by backhaul bandwidth and such. I also do not believe people will be running multiple devices on a cell phone as a hotspot, not as a general rule.
Think of it like your house. You have a single connection to an ISP that provides a fixed amount of bandwidth, and many people have several devices in their homes connected to that single service, all sharing that bandwidth. The same goes for cell towers. Verizon needs to figure out how much data will be accessed at peak times by how many users and devices and make sure that there is adequate bandwidth at the tower to provide the service without slowing everybody to a crawl. That backhaul (i.e., the connection from the tower out to Verizon's network) isn't free, and the more bandwidth that needs to be provided, the more it is going to cost.

Of course Verizon threw this argument out the window when they decided to allow hotspot for free on the new iPad... however, you get the deal that you get.

Quote:
What I do understand is I bought a phone Verizon went out of there way to advertise as a mobile hotspot and I am paying $30 a month for a data package. If I need to connect my laptop so I can access something at school, I am using no more bandwidth than if I was downloading something directly with my phone, I am in no way cheating Verizon out of anything.
Your laptop is using bandwidth at the same time as your phone (remember that the phone is a multitasking device.) You are using bandwidth that Verizon has to budget for.

I know when I bought my Bionic it was very clear from anywhere I researched (and the saleswoman confirmed) that hotspot features cost extra (and comes with its own 2 GB data cap - it doesn't count against your existing data package). The hotspot can also be turned on and off on a per-month basis, so you can use it only when you need it, without any penalty, change in contract, etc. - all this was explained to me when I asked to confirm my understanding of what was on the web site (I was glad that I asked - I didn't know that you could turn hotspot on and off like that.) If you failed to research this or ask about it when you purchased, that's not Verizon's fault.
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Old March 24th, 2012, 12:49 PM   #22 (permalink)
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By the way, I am not trying to insinuate anything about anybody, either. I'm just trying to explain from Verizon's point of view why they charge for hotspot services. It's point of view is just as rational as somebody who says that they pay for data, so they're going to use it if they can. I can see both sides of the argument; both are rational, and Verizon's is worth thinking about, whether you agree or disagree with it.

As for legality and contracts, it's a rare internet user who hasn't done something against terms or service, whether it is tethering, downloading music or video without paying, using somebody else's WiFi without permission, etc.
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Old March 24th, 2012, 01:06 PM   #23 (permalink)
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As for legality and contracts, it's a rare internet user who hasn't done something against terms or service, whether it is tethering, downloading music or video without paying, using somebody else's WiFi without permission, etc.
Sorry to disagree ... I don't think we are that rare.

(Yes friends ... my root-ed Droid X [when it is allowed to be root-ed] is not activated. I only have wifi access and there is no agreement with Verizon.)

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Old March 25th, 2012, 10:30 AM   #24 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by doogald View Post
Think of it like your house. You have a single connection to an ISP that provides a fixed amount of bandwidth, and many people have several devices in their homes connected to that single service, all sharing that bandwidth. The same goes for cell towers. Verizon needs to figure out how much data will be accessed at peak times by how many users and devices and make sure that there is adequate bandwidth at the tower to provide the service without slowing everybody to a crawl. That backhaul (i.e., the connection from the tower out to Verizon's network) isn't free, and the more bandwidth that needs to be provided, the more it is going to cost.

Of course Verizon threw this argument out the window when they decided to allow hotspot for free on the new iPad... however, you get the deal that you get.



Your laptop is using bandwidth at the same time as your phone (remember that the phone is a multitasking device.) You are using bandwidth that Verizon has to budget for.

I know when I bought my Bionic it was very clear from anywhere I researched (and the saleswoman confirmed) that hotspot features cost extra (and comes with its own 2 GB data cap - it doesn't count against your existing data package). The hotspot can also be turned on and off on a per-month basis, so you can use it only when you need it, without any penalty, change in contract, etc. - all this was explained to me when I asked to confirm my understanding of what was on the web site (I was glad that I asked - I didn't know that you could turn hotspot on and off like that.) If you failed to research this or ask about it when you purchased, that's not Verizon's fault.
See, here is the thing though, the ISP doesn't come in and charge you extra for other devices you have running. I have a wifi router in my apartment and can run both my desktop and my laptop. I am not using extra bandwidth from Comcast, merely splitting the bandwidth I am paying for.

Now perhaps this is where I may be missing something. Is there no set bandwidth on a cellular network like there is with say a cable internet? Say for example I pay for 20Mb down/5Mb up from Comcast for my home internet, no matter how many devices I am running, I can't go past those speeds, so the number of devices is irrelevant.

Now I don't know what the 4G LTE speeds are so I will make up some numbers just for example so let's say it's 25Mb down and 10Mb up. If I am running both my phone and a laptop, can they both run at 25mb down and 10Mb up simultaneously or do they have to share that speed limit? Because if there is a speed limit capability and since I have a data cap, I am still not understanding how I can be using more bandwidth regardless of how many devices I have running at the same time.
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Old March 25th, 2012, 10:34 AM   #25 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Thom Little View Post
I never insulated anything. I made no value judgment of what you are or are not doing. My statement was relative to the general statement and not to you.

The answer to your question is that the rates were established by Verizon based on estimated use. IF the use is going to go astronomical then you should expect the basic data cost to increase.

The difficulty for me is that I entered into an agreement with Verizon. I don't think it is up to me to reinterpret that agreement. If I don't want to continue what I agreed to then it is up to me to terminate the agreement and go with some supplier who has an agreement with which I can agree.

What am I missing?

Maybe I'm wrong and you can set me straight ... where does it say I can use my grandfathered unlimited data access for five PCs connected to my Bionic without my Mobile Hotspot?

... Thom
You may have unlimited data Thom, but I do not. I pay $30 a month for only 4GB, and so far I have broken 1GB for only one month. Now I do not expect a refund from Verizon for those unused GB of data, but I am still not understanding where it is wrong to want to use part of the bandwidth I am paying for to be able to use my laptop for school access without paying Verizon extra for them doing nothing extra for me.
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Old March 25th, 2012, 11:09 AM   #26 (permalink)
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See, here is the thing though, the ISP doesn't come in and charge you extra for other devices you have running. I have a wifi router in my apartment and can run both my desktop and my laptop. I am not using extra bandwidth from Comcast, merely splitting the bandwidth I am paying for.

Now perhaps this is where I may be missing something. Is there no set bandwidth on a cellular network like there is with say a cable internet? Say for example I pay for 20Mb down/5Mb up from Comcast for my home internet, no matter how many devices I am running, I can't go past those speeds, so the number of devices is irrelevant.

Now I don't know what the 4G LTE speeds are so I will make up some numbers just for example so let's say it's 25Mb down and 10Mb up. If I am running both my phone and a laptop, can they both run at 25mb down and 10Mb up simultaneously or do they have to share that speed limit? Because if there is a speed limit capability and since I have a data cap, I am still not understanding how I can be using more bandwidth regardless of how many devices I have running at the same time.
the speed is SHARED, same as with your home router.
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Old March 25th, 2012, 11:10 AM   #27 (permalink)
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You may have unlimited data Thom, but I do not. I pay $30 a month for only 4GB, and so far I have broken 1GB for only one month. Now I do not expect a refund from Verizon for those unused GB of data, but I am still not understanding where it is wrong to want to use part of the bandwidth I am paying for to be able to use my laptop for school access without paying Verizon extra for them doing nothing extra for me.
i agree. verizon is just doing what corporations do--they use their greed to lighten our wallets.
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Old March 25th, 2012, 12:12 PM   #28 (permalink)
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You may have unlimited data Thom, but I do not. I pay $30 a month for only 4GB, and so far I have broken 1GB for only one month. Now I do not expect a refund from Verizon for those unused GB of data, but I am still not understanding where it is wrong to want to use part of the bandwidth I am paying for to be able to use my laptop for school access without paying Verizon extra for them doing nothing extra for me.
That is up to you and Verizon to agree-on ... and not me.

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Old March 25th, 2012, 02:43 PM   #29 (permalink)
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the speed is SHARED, same as with your home router.
That's what i thought, so if my speed is shared then it doesn't really matter how many devices I have connected it's the same bandwidth regardless.

Honestly, this whole thing about charging extra for you to use the full capabilities of what your phone, something we already paid for, and the data package, something we also already pay for, can do, is essentially these cell companies running a scam because they are out no extra resources.

It's rather funny, when I was buying my Bionic, they kept touting the mobile hotspot feature, but never once said a word about an extra charge for me touching a button on the screen to turn it on.
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Old March 25th, 2012, 10:14 PM   #30 (permalink)
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It seems almost as controversial as an abortion but this app is working great for me!
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Old March 26th, 2012, 11:32 AM   #31 (permalink)
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I didn't think that threads like this were allowed in this forum???

Whether or not you agree if you use the hot spot on your phone and you don't pay for hotspot you ARE stealing from VZW. I'm not going yo argue with anyone nor am I going to explain why, just know that you use this app at your own risk. And VZW has ways of telling if you're hotspotting or not.
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Old March 26th, 2012, 02:41 PM   #32 (permalink)
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I didn't think that threads like this were allowed in this forum???

Whether or not you agree if you use the hot spot on your phone and you don't pay for hotspot you ARE stealing from VZW. I'm not going yo argue with anyone nor am I going to explain why, just know that you use this app at your own risk. And VZW has ways of telling if you're hotspotting or not.
oh, puhLEAZE! What a sanctimonious load of crap!

I could say Verizon has been "stealing" from it's customers, for years. Charging for SMS. Charging for tethering. It's all about greed, rather than necessity.
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Old March 26th, 2012, 03:22 PM   #33 (permalink)
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oh, puhLEAZE! What a sanctimonious load of crap!

I could say Verizon has been "stealing" from it's customers, for years. Charging for SMS. Charging for tethering. It's all about greed, rather than necessity.

I agree with the spirit of what you're saying, however we all agreed to Verizon terms and conditions whether we like them or not... (doesn't stop me from hotspotting when I need to though )
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Old March 26th, 2012, 04:39 PM   #34 (permalink)
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I agree with the spirit of what you're saying, however we all agreed to Verizon terms and conditions whether we like them or not... (doesn't stop me from hotspotting when I need to though )

I signed because I HAVE to--not because I agree with every last detail. Having a cell phone is something I've got to have. It's not like I can waltz into a verizon store with my lawyer and have them modify the agreement to my liking, as I did when I dealt with a business-property landlord. Boilerplate terms and conditions are always written to maximize the rights of the entity that had them drawn up by high-priced attorneys.
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Old March 26th, 2012, 06:23 PM   #35 (permalink)
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So you and I are in agreement...
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Old March 26th, 2012, 06:43 PM   #36 (permalink)
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I didn't think that threads like this were allowed in this forum???

Whether or not you agree if you use the hot spot on your phone and you don't pay for hotspot you ARE stealing from VZW. I'm not going yo argue with anyone nor am I going to explain why, just know that you use this app at your own risk. And VZW has ways of telling if you're hotspotting or not.
I would actually like for you to explain why it's stealing from Verizon. I am not trying to argue, I am merely asking for opinions and clarification because honestly, this is one of the issues that may very well make me leave Verizon after several years with them.

To me, I went in to buy a phone. I wanted a 4G phone because 3G service had already started to decline in my area. They pushed me toward two phones, the Bionic and the Razr, and I chose the Bionic due to the ability to be able to swap out batteries myself.

Now while I was looking at phones, the salesperson constantly kept talking about how the phone could be used as a hotspot which was attractive because it meant I didn't have to be tied to a hotspot to do some of my schoolwork. At no time did she mention that it would be an extra charge.

So, if I bought a phone that was capable of being a hotspot, and I am paying for a data plan, and if I use the phone as a hotspot and am not using any extra data or bandwidth for it being a hotspot, in what way am I stealing from Verizon? I'm sorry, but to me, Verizon wanting to charge me for what MY phone that I paid for can do and using the exact same data that I am already paying for, to me that is the theft since they are doing nothing extra on their part nor is any extra resources being used.

EDIT: And wasn't rooting and jailbreaking considered illegal not that long ago?
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Old March 26th, 2012, 07:51 PM   #37 (permalink)
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From what I have heard Verizon is not enforcing the root-ing clause. They could if they chose to do so.

The salesperson was telling you the truth. The Bionic has the capability Verizon makes that capability available at an additional monthly charge.

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Old March 26th, 2012, 09:24 PM   #38 (permalink)
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From what I have heard Verizon is not enforcing the root-ing clause. They could if they chose to do so.
Rooting was listed as an accepted fair use exception to the DMCA two years ago, when the EFF successfully appealed to the Library of Congress to add rooting/jailbreaking as an accepted practice for personal use, so long as you do not do something illegal with the handset after rooting (such as fraudulently change the radio so your phone appears to be another number or something.) Anyway, Verizon and Motorola are not required to provide warranty services if you root the phone, but you can use claim fair use as a defense if one of them sues you for a DMCA copyright violation.

Nobody has made any sort of similar determination that wireless (or wired) tethering is considered an acceptable exception to the current data contract terms, which allow the phone handset only to access data from web sources and to send and receive email.
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Old March 26th, 2012, 10:45 PM   #39 (permalink)
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Thank you for the further clarification.

Yes ... if you are root-ed and your Bionic is fried Verizon could refuse to repair it. It is my understanding that they are currently not enforcing this option and that they could start enforcing it any time they please.

There were reports in other forums that Verizon was recognizing abnormally high data transfers from third-party tethering and throttled back the data rates to .5Mbps. There doesn't seem to be a policy on this. I do not know what data plan these people were paying for.

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Old March 27th, 2012, 12:05 AM   #40 (permalink)
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From what I have heard Verizon is not enforcing the root-ing clause. They could if they chose to do so.

The salesperson was telling you the truth. The Bionic has the capability Verizon makes that capability available at an additional monthly charge.

... Thom
And the monthly charge was conviently left out of the sales pitch is my point. I think intentionally so because if they said they were charging you extra for providing no additional service too many customers would walk out the door.

I guess to me this isn't really any different than rooting/jailbreaking. People fought that because it was equipment they paid for. Since this is something we pay for with our data plans and the hardware built into the phones we paid for, than what is this extra charge for as long as we are in our data plans? I really am not understanding. The more I hear about it, the more Verizon sounds like crooks.
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Old March 27th, 2012, 08:57 AM   #41 (permalink)
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I pay thirty a month for unlimited mobile hotspot. I don't have to worry about being throttled.
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Old March 27th, 2012, 11:51 AM   #42 (permalink)
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I pay thirty a month for unlimited mobile hotspot. I don't have to worry about being throttled.

I'll see your $30 and raise you $30; I used to pay $60/month for 5GB for a MiFi. I ended up doing an ETF half way through the two years because it was an insane amount to pay for the limited use I made of the MiFi. I only got it because I didn't own a smartphone at the time. Once I got a smartphone, it seemed stupid to continue to pay for MiFi.
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Old March 27th, 2012, 11:53 AM   #43 (permalink)
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Maybe I am working off of old information, BUT it is a violation of the terms and conditions of the contract we ALL signed at VZW. And don't tell me that you had to. That is a load of BS. True if you didn't sign it you would have service but that is still YOUR CHOICE! When was the last time you read the terms and conditions on anything you use? The EULA that we all scroll to the bottom on and agree to, chances are that 50% of us (or more) are in some violation of that agreement. In addition to this, I'm not saying your wrong or in trouble. Lets be honest, if it's free or a way to make it free we are going to use it. I use hot spotting and I know that I am stealing from them. However i agree with most of you that I am paying for unlimited data, so in my mind that shouldn't "limit" me to one device. So call me a hypocrite or what ever else you want.

Rooting/Jailbreaking has never been illegal. Steve Jobs (RIP) was trying to make it illegal but never succeeded. They did try to scare us by saying it would void the warranty, but those of us that did root could un-root and they would never know.

I am sticking by my guns. I am not arguing with anyone, telling anyone they are wrong, or explaining why this is stealing. Verizon may have changed this policy because so many of us use it with out paying for it, this is why I think it may be old information.

For those of you that don't agree with me, I'll ask this question; Why would VZW charge me $100 more for the laptop dock if I don't pay for hot spotting?
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Old March 27th, 2012, 01:10 PM   #44 (permalink)
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There were reports in other forums that Verizon was recognizing abnormally high data transfers from third-party tethering and throttled back the data rates to .5Mbps. There doesn't seem to be a policy on this. I do not know what data plan these people were paying for.
That's in the data contract terms as well.

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Verizon Wireless strives to provide customers the best experience when using our network, a shared resource among tens of millions of customers. To help achieve this, if you use an extraordinary amount of data and fall within the top 5% of Verizon Wireless data users we may reduce your data throughput speeds periodically for the remainder of your then current and immediately following billing cycle to ensure high quality network performance for other users at locations and times of peak demand.
Notice the part that I bolded. Specifically (and, unlike what AT&T has been doing), Verizon will throttle the top 5% of data users when they are connected to towers that have high data usage. If the towers are not busy, there is no throttling. AT&T has been throttling all grandfathered unlimited data users when they reach 3 GB of data in a month at all times (it was 2 GB until recently) and I think that they were throttled to near dial-up modem speeds.

Which brings up an interesting point: in reading the data contract terms, I don't see where it says that you cannot use your data plan for more than just your device. (I am sure that it did at one time.)

Here is the customer agreement: Legal Customer Agreement - Your Guide by Verizon Wireless

Notice what it says, though, under Data Services:

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■ Data Services: Permitted Uses

You can use our Data Services for accessing the Internet and for such things as: (i) Internet browsing; (ii) email; (iii) intranet access (including accessing corporate intranets, email and individual productivity applications made available by your company); (iv) uploading, downloading and streaming of audio, video and games; and (v) Voice over Internet Protocol (VoIP).

■ Data Services: Prohibited Uses

You may not use our Data Services for illegal purposes or purposes that infringe upon others’ intellectual property rights, or in a manner that interferes with other users’ service; that violates trade and economic sanctions and prohibitions as promulgated by the departments
of Commerce, Treasury or any other U.S. government agency; that interferes with the network’s ability to fairly allocate capacity among users or that otherwise degrades service quality for other users. Examples of prohibited usage include: (i) server devices or host computer applications that are broadcast to multiple servers or recipients such that they could enable “bots” or similar routines (as set forth in more detail in (ii) below) or otherwise degrade network capacity or functionality; (ii) “auto-responders,” “cancel-bots,” or similar automated or manual routines that generate amounts of net traffic that could disrupt net user groups or email use by others; (iii) generating “spam” or unsolicited commercial or bulk email (or activities that facilitate the dissemination of such email); (iv) any activity that adversely affects the ability of other users or systems to use either Verizon Wireless’ services or the Internet-based resources of others, including the generation or dissemination of viruses, malware or “denial of service” attacks; (v) accessing, or attempting to access without authority, the information, accounts or devices of others, or to penetrate, or attempt to penetrate, Verizon Wireless’ or another entity’s network or systems; or (vi) running software or other devices that maintain continuous active Internet connections when a computer’s connection would otherwise be idle, or “keep alive” functions, unless they adhere to Verizon Wireless’ requirements for such usage, which may be changed from time to time.

There is nothing in there that prohibits the use of an app like FoxFi at all!

However, it is followed up with this:

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We further reserve the right to take measures to protect our network and other users from harm, compromised capacity or degradation in performance. These measures may impact your service, and we reserve the right to deny, modify or terminate service, with or without notice, to anyone we believe is using Data Plans or Features in a manner that adversely impacts our network. We may monitor your compliance, or other subscribers’ compliance, with these terms and conditions, but we will not monitor the content of your communications except as otherwise expressly permitted or required by law.
So, other than that blanket statement that allows them to terminate your service at their determination, I don't see anything in those terms of service anywhere that says that you cannot use an app like FoxFi for one of those permitted uses, particularly if you are using for casual web browsing, email, light uploads and downloads, etc. Did I miss anything?
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Old March 27th, 2012, 01:28 PM   #45 (permalink)
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Ok, I'll admit that MAYBE stealing was a harsh term, but it is still a violation of the contract that we signed.

Thank you for the info doogald.
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Old March 27th, 2012, 05:13 PM   #46 (permalink)
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Doogald, do you know of a carrier that does allow people to use the phones and data plans they purchase fully, without paying extra for the carrier doing nothing? At this point I am seriously considering leaving Verizon, this is just one issue that is leading me to it.

And can the Bionic be used on another carrier's service that utilizes 4G LTE?
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Old March 27th, 2012, 08:11 PM   #47 (permalink)
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Doogald, do you know of a carrier that does allow people to use the phones and data plans they purchase fully, without paying extra for the carrier doing nothing? At this point I am seriously considering leaving Verizon, this is just one issue that is leading me to it.
I have never used them and they are new, but ting.com looks really, really interesting. The phones are either relatively crappy or priced high - they appear not to be subsidized, though that means that you have lower monthly charges - but they allow you to choose the number of minutes, texts and data, charge you low prices for them, and if you do not use the minutes you paid for - you get a credit on your bill for the next month, rather than a rollover.

Tethering/hotspot is no extra charge - you use your data pool.

https://ting.com/

They are run by the same people who run the domain registrar hover.com and tucows.com, so they've been around running those services for a while.

One other thing - they use Sprint's network, and their 4G is WiMax, not LTE. That may not be as wide-spread as Verizon's LTE. Check the coverage map as well.

I'm not sure about anybody else. I think that all of the majors charge extra for hotspot. (Honestly, it's not something that I do, so I don't pay much attention to it, and I'm fairly committed to Verizon for the next 4 years or so. Maybe somebody else knows though.)

Quote:
And can the Bionic be used on another carrier's service that utilizes 4G LTE?
I doubt it. I think that AT&T uses a different LTE frequency and isn't CDMA as a fallback (and AT&T, like VZW, does not yet use LTE for voice), and I don't know what Sprint's ultimate LTE details are, but they do not allow phones that were not purchased from Sprint on their plans.

Definitely not with ting.com, though - you have to buy one of their phones. They have a 4G photon, though. Expensive, but remember that you'll save the money over time with lower service costs.
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Old March 27th, 2012, 10:07 PM   #48 (permalink)
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I have never used them and they are new, but ting.com looks really, really interesting. The phones are either relatively crappy or priced high - they appear not to be subsidized, though that means that you have lower monthly charges - but they allow you to choose the number of minutes, texts and data, charge you low prices for them, and if you do not use the minutes you paid for - you get a credit on your bill for the next month, rather than a rollover.

Tethering/hotspot is no extra charge - you use your data pool.

https://ting.com/

They are run by the same people who run the domain registrar hover.com and tucows.com, so they've been around running those services for a while.

One other thing - they use Sprint's network, and their 4G is WiMax, not LTE. That may not be as wide-spread as Verizon's LTE. Check the coverage map as well.

I'm not sure about anybody else. I think that all of the majors charge extra for hotspot. (Honestly, it's not something that I do, so I don't pay much attention to it, and I'm fairly committed to Verizon for the next 4 years or so. Maybe somebody else knows though.)



I doubt it. I think that AT&T uses a different LTE frequency and isn't CDMA as a fallback (and AT&T, like VZW, does not yet use LTE for voice), and I don't know what Sprint's ultimate LTE details are, but they do not allow phones that were not purchased from Sprint on their plans.

Definitely not with ting.com, though - you have to buy one of their phones. They have a 4G photon, though. Expensive, but remember that you'll save the money over time with lower service costs.
Thank you for the information. I will have to keep them in mind. I can't do much now since I just got my Bionic a few months ago, and honestly, I would hate to not use it, but I am noticing things I never noticed when I had just a basic cell phone.

The whole tethering/hotspot issue isn't one I want to majorly use, and I really don't fully understand it. And it's not like I want to connect up a bunch of devices, just occasionally use my laptop maybe a few times a month to email papers to instructors and maybe download what I need to from the school's servers. Maybe just 50-60MB a month.
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Old March 27th, 2012, 10:53 PM   #49 (permalink)
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Maybe Verizon gives an educational discount? Have you asked?

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Old March 28th, 2012, 08:43 AM   #50 (permalink)
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Maybe Verizon gives an educational discount? Have you asked?

... Thom
You're missing the point Thom. I am not someone to double pay someone, especially when they have misled me.

The misleading part came in during the sales pitch about how it could act as a mobile hotspot and I could use it with my laptop without ever once mentioning an extra charge to tap my screen.

The double paying comes in on the fact that I bought the phone that can do the hotspot and that I am already paying for up to 4GB of data.

I am not talking about using more than 4GB of data under my plan. As someone else explained, using a hotspot does not use any extra resources on Verizon's end, it merely shares the single one similar to a home router. To me, this is no different than if when I turned on wifi on the phone, the cable company were to charge me extra for having another device share my internet connection at home.

Not mention, from what Doogald copied, this may not even be against the terms with Verizon to begin with.

Let's also be honest about something else, and that's the hypocrisy on the issue on Verizon's end. They advertise how they want people to use their phone to stream movies and the like. I even have a Blockbuster app that Verizon puts on there that I can not remove and I do not want. So Verizon wants me to use more bandwidth than I currently use and would use sending a few emails and downloading assignments from my school.
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