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Old October 12th, 2012, 03:23 PM   #1 (permalink)
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Default ICS OTA and FDR

In June an assertion was made that it was prudent to always do a FDR (Factory Data Reset) after installing any OTA (Over the Air).

We were getting a lot of GB (Gingerbread) OTAs on the Bionic and I identified this FDR assertion as overkill. I really endeared myself to ... EarlyMon ... with that description.

I was coming from the point of view of a un-root-ed user who did not have the luxury of having Titanium Backup Pro (as I do on my Droid X) available. He on the other hand did. As a result I think he saw it as much less of an imposition then I did.

So here we are at the threshold of the ICS OTA and I agree with him on this one 100%. It makes total sense to me to install the ICS OTA (when available) and immediately do a FDR and install everything from scratch.

To my thinking going from GB to ICS is like going from Windows XP to Windows 7 ... start with a clean slate and reinstall everything out of the box. Doing that I am not going to get five weeks down the road and be shooting some obscure problem that came up only on my Bionic because Gingerbread element X did not translate correctly to ICS element y and NO ONE else ran into it yet.

There is also always junk that slowly accumulates that you never get around to cleaning out. This reinstall process is great for that because when you hit one of these ... you just don't reinstall it.

... Thom

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Old October 12th, 2012, 04:37 PM   #2 (permalink)
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+1 ^^^^
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Old October 12th, 2012, 05:05 PM   #3 (permalink)
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So best bet is if your on 232 to root and back up with titanium. Go back to 905 upgrade to ota then fdr

Wait will the ota be rootable??? O.o
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Old October 12th, 2012, 06:50 PM   #4 (permalink)
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There is also always junk that slowly accumulates that you never get around to cleaning out. This reinstall process is great for that because when you hit one of these ... you just don't reinstall it.

... Thom
That is an excellent idea. I am backing up as I type. This bionic is probably as cluttered as my first apartment. Good excuse to NOT reinstall some of the BS after a FDR w/ ICS.
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Old October 12th, 2012, 07:21 PM   #5 (permalink)
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And as part of backing up....

In this instance (prepping for new os version, I mean) should I be backing up system apps as well? I understand FDR will only wipe what I have put on (unless I specify more).

Will the old GB system apps conflict with new ICS system apps? Or is this an unnecessary concern? The ICS system apps will essentially replace the GB system apps?
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Old October 12th, 2012, 07:24 PM   #6 (permalink)
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So best bet is if your on 232 to root and back up with titanium. Go back to 905 upgrade to ota then fdr

Wait will the ota be rootable??? O.o
Weather you choose to root or not is a separate question. The major reason for root-ing other than to play with your Bionic is to have Titanium Backup Pro available.

If you choose to root keep in mind that you are assuming responsibility for what happens. A failure could be costly.

If you are already on and ICS leak and are root-ed I am really surprised that you didn't make the backup before installing the ICS leak. (You need to always plan for the worst case.)

After it is released I think you will want to verify that the OTA is root-able before you install it (even if you have no immediate plan to root).

(The people in the soak test will not be allowed to answer that question for you.)

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Old October 12th, 2012, 07:45 PM   #7 (permalink)
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So here we are at the threshold of the ICS OTA and I agree with him on this one 100%. It makes total sense to me to install the ICS OTA (when available) and immediately do a FDR and install everything from scratch.
While I do not disagree with this, I might be tempted to run with the OTA for a day or few to see if a factory reset is required. A factory reset is only a few taps away, and I can understand why somebody may want to try without being so hasty about the reset.

Motorola and Verizon are specifically designing this update to install over installed data, after all. I could see why this may be one of the reasons why so many test builds fail, actually.
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Old October 12th, 2012, 08:19 PM   #8 (permalink)
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The original assertion (that I resisted under Gingerbread) was that a Factory Data Reset should be part of the OTA install process.

I concluded that that could only be sensible under Gingerbread if you were root-ed.

One day's testing isn't going to do it. One month's testing isn't going to do it. I don't have a lot installed (only 124 apps). The ideas is to assume that something is going to be screwed up.

To me it makes total sense to clean the slate when going to ICS.

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Old October 12th, 2012, 08:27 PM   #9 (permalink)
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So best bet is if your on 232 to root and back up with titanium. Go back to 905 upgrade to ota then fdr

Wait will the ota be rootable??? O.o
Of course you could HoB to .247 with no data loss, just a available option to consider, but anytime you flash a ROM you should be prepared to lose everything, that's just the way it is .
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Old October 13th, 2012, 12:28 AM   #10 (permalink)
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What im trying to say is you have to be rooted to use tb

But if the ota wont be rootable how can we restore our data with tb after the fdr
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Old October 13th, 2012, 12:59 AM   #11 (permalink)
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What im trying to say is you have to be rooted to use tb

But if the ota wont be rootable how can we restore our data with tb after the fdr
Who said you can't root the OTA?
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Old October 13th, 2012, 01:31 AM   #12 (permalink)
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I am using Rom Toolbox Pro for my backups... since the backups are stored on the mnt/sdcard, and that is not effected by a FDR unless specified, it shouldn't be an issue to restore.

Unless the "restore" requires root access.
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Old October 13th, 2012, 01:34 AM   #13 (permalink)
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Knock on wood, I haven't needed to restore. Yet.
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Old October 13th, 2012, 01:51 AM   #14 (permalink)
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I know factory resets fixed any problems for us razr users after the ota. I would highly suggest it. Just like mentioned, you wouldn't go xp to win 7 or 8 with out starting fresh
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Old October 13th, 2012, 02:31 AM   #15 (permalink)
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No one. I was asking you if you think the ota will be rootable right away?
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Old October 13th, 2012, 06:27 AM   #16 (permalink)
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No one. I was asking you if you think the ota will be rootable right away?
That is a question what will start an endless debate where some people think one thing and other people think another and some are REALLY emphatic about their opinion.

The answer is that it has not been released so there is no way to know.

The safe thing to do is to hold off on your installation until you see it reported that someone has actually installed it and actually root-ed. At that point go ahead with the installation.

Where I am coming from is ... the last Droid X OTA ... you could not revert and you could not root. A complicated workaround came out a month or so later. An easy root method was finally available six months after OTA.

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Old October 13th, 2012, 10:43 AM   #17 (permalink)
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That is a question what will start an endless debate where some people think one thing and other people think another and some are REALLY emphatic about their opinion.

The answer is that it has not been released so there is no way to know.

The safe thing to do is to hold off on your installation until you see it reported that someone has actually installed it and actually root-ed. At that point go ahead with the installation.

Where I am coming from is ... the last Droid X OTA ... you could not revert and you could not root. A complicated workaround came out a month or so later. An easy root method was finally available six months after OTA.

... Thom
So here's the deal as far as I'm concerned, .247 is the OTA and it's rootable.
If by chance some completely redesigned supper unrootable .248+ version all of a sudden pops up and is pushed out as the OTA, I'm staying with .247.
If you ever took this theoretical unrootable .248+ you would most likely not be able to go back to .247 or lower because they would up the security again. Fortunately there are tools that can be used to compare files between versions so we would know before ever installing it. Remember, if your not on .905 your not going to get the OTA pushed to your phone.

What we really need to be worried about would be Jelly Bean, security in it might be a whole new ball game.
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Old October 13th, 2012, 10:46 AM   #18 (permalink)
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So why do a fdr if we csnt even root it? Seems pointless. Thats just assuming its unrootable
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Old October 13th, 2012, 11:14 AM   #19 (permalink)
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So why do a fdr if we csnt even root it? Seems pointless. Thats just assuming its unrootable
A FDR gives you a fresh clean start and really has nothing to do with root.
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Old October 13th, 2012, 12:24 PM   #20 (permalink)
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So here's the deal as far as I'm concerned, .247 is the OTA and it's rootable.
If by chance some completely redesigned supper unrootable .248+ version all of a sudden pops up and is pushed out as the OTA, I'm staying with .247.
If you ever took this theoretical unrootable .248+ you would most likely not be able to go back to .247 or lower because they would up the security again. Fortunately there are tools that can be used to compare files between versions so we would know before ever installing it. Remember, if your not on .905 your not going to get the OTA pushed to your phone.

What we really need to be worried about would be Jelly Bean, security in it might be a whole new ball game.
I assume it will work like other OTAs ... it will be pushed on your phone and you will be asked if you want to install it ... (I have a friend with a Droid 4 who is still saying no each time it prompts him to install ICS).

We are in agreement that we will know what the OTA is after it starts being pushed out. If it is 6.7.247 we will already know that it is root-able.

My recommendation (like yours) is to just wait to see that someone has verified that it is root-able before accepting it.

(With the Droid X I think they were trying to curtail future root-ing. I assume they have abandoned that effort. I suggest that verification is more prudent than assumption.)

... Thom
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Old October 13th, 2012, 12:50 PM   #21 (permalink)
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I completely see the point of doing an FDR after the OTA, but admittedly it's not something that occurred to me before I read this.
Root is something that doesn't seem necessary to me at this time, but I'd like to have the option if I end up needing it for something.

Thanks for posting this!
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Old October 13th, 2012, 01:16 PM   #22 (permalink)
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I think you are on the right track. Leave your option open for future root-ing.

I resisted the FDR concept under Gingerbread because of the lack benefit very much like applying a patch).

I promised EarlyMon that I would help get his assertion out to the Bionic community when I could and I think it is applicable to ICS.

I'm in software development ... what makes for successful software is always assume the worst. (This is what hacks off a lot of people who want to focus on the best case [a discussion between a software developer and someone in sales is always VERY interesting].)

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Old October 13th, 2012, 02:05 PM   #23 (permalink)
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(With the Droid X I think they were trying to curtail future root-ing. I assume they have abandoned that effort. I suggest that verification is more prudent than assumption.)

... Thom
Verification is always the thing to do, some may think I'm quick to pull the trigger on a leak but I've never installed one without knowing if it had increased security and if it's was rootable.

I don't believe anyone has been able to root any of Motorola's new phones like the Razr M have they?

Another thing to be aware of is if you ever root under ICS anyone will be able to go into recovery and see if the phone has been rooted before. No way around it. See New Motorola Root Checker also present in all Bionic ICS Builds
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Old October 13th, 2012, 03:06 PM   #24 (permalink)
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Another thing to be aware of is if you ever root under ICS anyone will be able to go into recovery and see if the phone has been rooted before. No way around it. See New Motorola Root Checker also present in all Bionic ICS Builds
Here's another assumption on my part ... I assume they are going to have a new support policy for normal phones and for developer phones. Support for developer phones will be higher cost. The new indicator is a first step at doing it. If you root ... you are on a developer phone.

... Thom
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Old October 13th, 2012, 03:24 PM   #25 (permalink)
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Here's another assumption on my part ... I assume they are going to have a new support policy for normal phones and for developer phones. Support for developer phones will be higher cost. The new indicator is a first step at doing it. If you root ... you are on a developer phone.

... Thom
If they are going to say that they need to let me unlock my bootloader!
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Old October 13th, 2012, 04:57 PM   #26 (permalink)
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If they are going to say that they need to let me unlock my bootloader!
My assumption that that will be part of the deal.

... Thom
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Old October 13th, 2012, 05:57 PM   #27 (permalink)
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My assumption that that will be part of the deal.

... Thom
It's probably never going to happen with Bionic, only new Moto phones, but I can live with Bionic on ICS or JB for a year or two just to keep unlimited data.

Puppy!

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Old October 14th, 2012, 07:57 PM   #28 (permalink)
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So what should us non techincal Bionic users know when doing a FDR when getting the ICS OTA? Not Rooted, just stock. What do I needto backup my phone?
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Old October 14th, 2012, 08:41 PM   #29 (permalink)
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Well it won't touch anything on your sd card and any paid apps will be backed up with play store. Most of your free apps will also, they should start downloading after you set your phone back up. Only all your data will be lost. I'm not sure of any non root apps to back that up though.
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Old October 15th, 2012, 07:29 AM   #30 (permalink)
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The only bad part is all the settings that took awhile to tweak just the way you want the apps to work are gone and not backupable (I know, not a real word) unless you are rooted
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Old October 15th, 2012, 08:43 AM   #31 (permalink)
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That's why I resisted so strongly when going form one release of Gingerbread to the next.

It seems to me that there are a whole host of things I will want to do differently in ICS and a few that I will want to do the same way. As a result the Factory Data Reset seems much less traumatic to me.

I could be wrong ... I have (intentionally) installed none of the ICS leaks.

... Thom
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Old October 15th, 2012, 09:18 AM   #32 (permalink)
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How do you plan to restore all your needed data?
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Old October 15th, 2012, 09:23 AM   #33 (permalink)
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Yeah it might be an inconvenience, but considering it is because of a completely free upgrade to the next newer operating system I'm willing to do it.

Heck, i'm just glad we didn't get left behind entirely!!
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Old October 15th, 2012, 10:51 AM   #34 (permalink)
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How do you plan to restore all your needed data?
I am very workstation-centric. The master copy off all data is on my workstation. I periodically upload my contacts to Gmail and they are synced to my Bionic. I never enter a new or changed contact on the Bionic ... I always enter them on the workstation.

I have separate e-mail accounts. One that I use heavily from the workstation. The other is a Gmail account that is only used on my Bionic. If I really-really-really need to have someone contact me when I am out of the office I tell them that address.

I have no data on my Bionic I am not willing to have the most scurrilous person on earth access.

Basically ... I don't trust anything outside my workstation that is behind a comprehensive firewall.

That being the case ... what is left is customizations of some apps. I will do that manually. In some cases some of the apps just won't get used in ICS and some other cases the apps will be tweaked for ICS and in still other cases they will be configured exactly as they were under Gingerbread.

This is a NEW environment and it provide a golden opportunity to do a number of things new ways. I see this as a plus and not a minus.

I suggest that this is an ideal opportunity for each person to consider how they are using their Bionic and also consider if their data is appropriately protected.

This little "computer in my pocket" is vastly more powerful then the first mainframe computer I was paid to program.

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Old October 15th, 2012, 11:32 AM   #35 (permalink)
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I do not use my phone for games, but I can see that being the major hassle of a factory data reset. Smart game app developers will allow users to store their data online or on sd; but I imagine that there are games that are not that way.

I am sure that there are other apps that store data only on the phone, and, again, a factory reset is problematic. This is the major reason why I don't have apps like this - I don't have a single app that doesn't some sort of automatic cloud update option, gets its data that way, or that uses data in a way that cloud backup is not critical for use. But that's just my typical use pattern for all computing devices - there is nothing anywhere that isn't at least backed up offsite somehow. Forget factory reset - I want to know that if my phone is lost or stolen, I can get another and be up and running with everything that I need within hours, with as little hassle as possible.
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Old October 15th, 2012, 12:52 PM   #36 (permalink)
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So...most of this post will be reposted in another thread but I did want to get this out there and have a couple questions answered....roughly.

Alright, my Bionic works just fine in almost every area for me and that is with the .232 ICS leak. I will not be rooting this phone. At least I say that now, and knowing that it's true right up until it's time to get a new phone in 2014. That's when I'll root it. So with that being said, I understand the FDR part somewhat. But what I'm not understanding is should I actually do it knowing that I'm not rooted and won't ever be rooted? I love the .232 leak, I realize that the last one that is in soak is the best thing ever and that's great.

I'm not going to flash back to .905 until the OTA has gone out and is mostly done. I like ICS to much to go back thru and be basic again and not have my cool blue and black ICS. I know it's being advised to do so anyways but I'm not going to. I'm stubborn...and I don't want to be disappointed.

Any words of advice as to why I should go back to .905 now? Also, any better reasoning as to why I should FDR?
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Old October 15th, 2012, 02:31 PM   #37 (permalink)
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Let me see if I got this straight ... your question is if you should stay with an UNSUPPORTED system for the next year or so. The UNSUPPORTED system you are asking about has already had six leaks after it was leaked to correct bugs that it contains. The OTA will either be the last one of those or yet another bug correction build.

Two months from now you install some new piece of software that wipes something out that you depended on. You are the ONLY person who has this problem. How do you get it corrected?

The recommended approach is to get back on the OTA release path and after each OTA is verified to be root-able ... install it.

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Old October 15th, 2012, 02:56 PM   #38 (permalink)
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You are almost correct. What I'm saying is that I will go back to .905 or .902 seeing as I'm unsure if I ever got .905. I do know I got my phone in like June of this year. I don't believe I ever received an OTA so my thoughts are that I was already on .905.

Anyways, no what I'm saying is that until the OTA is pushed I will stay on ICS .232. I love it so much that going back would aggravate me because of how much better ICS is. Even this early version of it. So in my personal opinion the aggravation of stock is pointless to me. So I'll stay on .232 until the OTA is out. Once it's out I'll revert and take the OTA.

My other point is once I get the OTA, should I really honestly and truly do a FDR? I do have an addiction with my Bionic and having to go back and set it all up the way I want would only further feed that addiction. Along with annoying others around me at home because I like to do it all at once.

Also, I'm saying that I won't root MY Bionic until about to go get a new phone in 2014.
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Old October 15th, 2012, 03:53 PM   #39 (permalink)
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There is only one point about doing the FDR after installing the ICS OTA ... you will then know in the future what the starting point was. You will never have to attempt to recreate what happened before that point when addressing some future problem. Without it there will always be a lingering doubt.

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Old October 16th, 2012, 07:46 AM   #40 (permalink)
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If it helps, I just FXZ'd to 905 in preparation for future OTA updates (.232 leak was cool but laggy) and my phone would not work until I did a FDR. I kept getting two force closes every couple seconds, one was something like phone.android stopped working or something like that, the other was calendar.storage stopped working. I tried re-FXZing but that didn't help. so I just booted into recovery and did a Franklin Delano Roosevelt and now it works great.
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Old October 16th, 2012, 05:56 PM   #41 (permalink)
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If it helps, I just FXZ'd to 905 in preparation for future OTA updates (.232 leak was cool but laggy) and my phone would not work until I did a FDR. I kept getting two force closes every couple seconds, one was something like phone.android stopped working or something like that, the other was calendar.storage stopped working. I tried re-FXZing but that didn't help. so I just booted into recovery and did a Franklin Delano Roosevelt and now it works great.
It is common sense to take a method and try it. If it fails, admit it frankly and try another. But above all, try something.
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Old October 16th, 2012, 06:11 PM   #42 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by welbinator View Post
If it helps, I just FXZ'd to 905 in preparation for future OTA updates (.232 leak was cool but laggy) and my phone would not work until I did a FDR. I kept getting two force closes every couple seconds, one was something like phone.android stopped working or something like that, the other was calendar.storage stopped working. I tried re-FXZing but that didn't help. so I just booted into recovery and did a Franklin Delano Roosevelt and now it works great.
That used to happen to me and I found a solution that works for me.

After FXZing and you start the Andriod setup, if I SKIP signing into my Google account and just SKIP THROUGH. Than add the Google account after. No more problems after FXZing and no FDR required.
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Old October 19th, 2012, 10:09 AM   #43 (permalink)
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Will an FDR take me back off the .223 leak? Or is there a more involved process to getting back to the proper version so i can get the OTA for ICS?
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Old October 19th, 2012, 11:49 AM   #44 (permalink)
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Factory reset just resets whatever system version you are currently running. If you went ahead to ICS leaks, doing a factory reset is not going to take you back to Gingerbread. You need to get an fxz file for 905 and use a program like RSD Lite to flash it. Never a good idea to move ahead to unofficial releases if you haven't researched what it will take to get back to where you were.
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Old October 23rd, 2012, 02:20 PM   #45 (permalink)
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Thom, can you provide a link to how to do the FDR? I must be blind because whenever I search I just get references to doing it, not how. I know I have seen them before, just can't remember where. Been getting a "android.process.acore" has stopped message repeatedly. Doesn't affect me getting calls, but I think I am going to FDR and even root tonight. Thanks.
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Old October 23rd, 2012, 03:04 PM   #46 (permalink)
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Maybe you should make this thread a sticky and re-do the title to something like "IMPORTANT: Factory reset required after ICS update"

Maybe that will save a bunch of threads from being created that may not have been otherwise. I keep hearing people ask "Did you do an FDR?"
I'm no pro, but seems common sense to me to do so. If one loves and values their phone enough, they'll take the time and do it right.
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Old October 23rd, 2012, 03:06 PM   #47 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by wildkitten View Post
Thom, can you provide a link to how to do the FDR? I must be blind because whenever I search I just get references to doing it, not how. I know I have seen them before, just can't remember where. Been getting a "android.process.acore" has stopped message repeatedly. Doesn't affect me getting calls, but I think I am going to FDR and even root tonight. Thanks.
Not tried by me yet ...

Settings | Privacy | Factory data reset

The other way ...

Power off
Hold down Volume Up/Volume Down/Power
Volume Down - highlights Recovery
Volume Up - selects Recovery
Android icon with open chest - Volume Up/Volume Down
Volume Down - select wipe data/factory reset
Power
Select Yes -- delete all user data

I have not done it yet. I am finishing up some required testing on going to ICS without a FDR (can't talk about it) ... later today for me.

... Thom
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Old October 23rd, 2012, 03:22 PM   #48 (permalink)
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If people wanted to be ultra paranoid like myself? I would do a factory reset before and after the update! lol That's assuming I do the update.
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Old October 23rd, 2012, 03:31 PM   #49 (permalink)
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If people wanted to be ultra paranoid like myself? I would do a factory reset before and after the update! lol That's assuming I do the update.
Or backup everything you can (un-root-ed try My Backup Pro) (root-ed of course use Titanium Backup Pro). Install the OTA. Do a FDR. Backup everything you can.

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Old October 23rd, 2012, 03:40 PM   #50 (permalink)
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Quote:
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Or backup everything you can (un-root-ed try My Backup Pro) (root-ed of course use Titanium Backup Pro). Install the OTA. Do a FDR. Backup everything you can.

... Thom
The only feasible thing I could think to back up would be media items such as photos, music, video and any documents unto my hard drive.

I would never back up any apps or settings with an upgrade, they could clash coming from gb to ics. I'd just assume re-downloading the apps and setting up from scratch. I know it's a lot of work, but that's just how I roll personally.

The only back ups I do when I am NOT upgrading is the clockwork mod back ups as far as the phone is concerned. I always sync my media and documents unto two different hard drives and dvd. Overkill? You betcha! lol
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