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Old November 17th, 2009, 10:45 AM   #101 (permalink)
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Over the air updates are cool, as long as you know they are happening. Though no one has actually confirmed it was an update. It would be nice to see the update in the market app and then hit an update button than to have it just happen. Some of us have seen bad software updates pushed for software vendors. Would suck to have an update kill your phone over night.

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Old November 17th, 2009, 10:47 AM   #102 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by DoYouDroid View Post
Uneducated?... I have my masters from Boston College.

Uninformed?... I have worked for Verizon (Previously Bell Atlantic, Nynex, New England Telephone... etc etc) for 30 years... in the wireless division for 6. I am the definition of informed
Wow, Masters from B.C., 30 years in wireless...that's pretty impressive. And you still have no problem with Motorola pushing updates to the device you purchased without telling you about it either before OR after..with some sort of log that tells you what they changed in the device that you paid for? I guess there's not much else to say about it. I guess we look at education and information differently. I never went to college. I got to where I am and what I do the hard way. I guess there's just a distinct difference between infosec professionals and smart guys...
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Old November 17th, 2009, 10:48 AM   #103 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Shawncyr View Post
A silent update might explain why my phone was on but unresponsive this morning. I had to pull the battery. This is the first time this has happened this I got the phone on Nov 6th. The phone was connected to Wifi and not to 3G if that matters

The camera seems much better now. Silent update=SUCCESS!
My phone also was off this morning and I couldn't wake it. Had to battery pull and it took awhile to come up but it did and seems to be running great. Seems others have had the same problem so must be related to the push.

I understand the wants to be informed of a push. I get it. But to veer off into some conspiracy realm is a reach. I'm sure Motorola knows what a complete PR nightmare it would have on it's hands if it indeed did slip in some spyware or other nefarious tracking stuff and it got caught later. The company is teetering as it is and that would probably send it off the cliff.
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Old November 17th, 2009, 10:49 AM   #104 (permalink)
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The part I'm most shocked by is I would expect a bunch of iPhone fan boys to not care about openness and control, but you would think those that went to the trouble of buying a phone/OS that purports to be both of those things would care.
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Old November 17th, 2009, 10:53 AM   #105 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by DoYouDroid View Post
Uneducated?... I have my masters from Boston College.

Uninformed?... I have worked for Verizon (Previously Bell Atlantic, Nynex, New England Telephone... etc etc) for 30 years... in the wireless division for 6. I am the definition of informed
And I'm Stephen xxxxxxx Hawking.

Do you think your internet credentials impress anyone? That just shows what a xxxxxx 12 year old you are. Congratulations.
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Old November 17th, 2009, 10:54 AM   #106 (permalink)
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Haha, so OK, not uneducated but with suspect motives.
hahahaha... YES!
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Old November 17th, 2009, 10:56 AM   #107 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Flowah View Post
And I'm Stephen xxxxxxx Hawking.

Do you think your internet credentials impress anyone? That just shows what a xxxxxxx 12 year old you are. Congratulations.
Nice to meet you Stephen. Are you happy your camera works now?
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Old November 17th, 2009, 10:59 AM   #108 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by myAndroid View Post
Wow, Masters from B.C., 30 years in wireless...that's pretty impressive. And you still have no problem with Motorola pushing updates to the device you purchased without telling you about it either before OR after..with some sort of log that tells you what they changed in the device that you paid for? I guess there's not much else to say about it. I guess we look at education and information differently. I never went to college. I got to where I am and what I do the hard way. I guess there's just a distinct difference between infosec professionals and smart guys...
30 years in wireless!? Incorrect.

Since you don't have an education, I won't blame you for your poor reading comprehension.
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Old November 17th, 2009, 11:00 AM   #109 (permalink)
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30 years in wireless!? Incorrect.
You do know there was wireless technology before there were cell phones...
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Old November 17th, 2009, 11:00 AM   #110 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by DoYouDroid View Post
30 years in wireless!? Incorrect.

Since you don't have an education, I won't blame you for your poor reading comprehension.
and apparently, sarcasm isn't one of your strong points, either...
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Old November 17th, 2009, 11:00 AM   #111 (permalink)
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i think the update (i guess it's more or less confirmed now sorta?) is awesome, but i understand myandroid's concerns.

i'm a control freak when it comes to my computer, and same with my droid. that's part of the reason i got the droid, as it is pretty customizable. so i'd prefer a notification before an update is installed. plus it would just be nice to have a changelog so that we don't have to guess what has been fixed.

also, there's always the chance that an update will screw things up even more, as is sometimes the case with MS updates. so it would be cool if we could choose to wait and see before installing, especially for business-types for whom their phone is mission critical.

.
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Old November 17th, 2009, 11:03 AM   #112 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Backnblack View Post
You do know there was wireless technology before there were cell phones...
Hahaha yes, very aware.


However as I explained in my post, I have been involved for 6.


EDIT: OK let's stop hijacking this thread with worthless banter.
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Old November 17th, 2009, 11:05 AM   #113 (permalink)
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I really do think there should have been a notice about the update as well as it having it require the user to click that it is ok to install.

While not exactly the same thing it does remind me of the whole Kindle issue and we all know how well that went over with users

myAndroid, I think you are wrong about most of users not caring about not getting a notice and an option to install. I believe most people think that we should be notified and given the option not to install. A few people including myself stated earlier in this very thread that we would have liked to know there was an update and what changes it made.

It's just that most people are just happy their camera is working better and they may not even realize the phone has been updated. I don't think we will see the kind of discussion you want in mass until after they push an update that angers people, which of course will be too late. Will they do an update like that, I would like to think not but then I remember the Kindle again...
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Old November 17th, 2009, 11:05 AM   #114 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Backnblack View Post
You do know there was wireless technology before there were cell phones...
and if we're throwing around credentials...CISSP, CEH, CCDP, OPST to name a few...I've been dealing with IH/IR, forensics and pen testing for 12 years as a Marine and a civilian. I recently moved into the mobile security space, where the threat is migrating, if not already here. I have professional and personal motives for my concerns. Raising awareness is the responsibility of infosec professionals. More times than not to protect users from themselves....
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Old November 17th, 2009, 11:06 AM   #115 (permalink)
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I will say that if Moto wants to come into my phone without my knowledge and do things to it that they believe will enhance my experience . . .

Go right ahead!
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Old November 17th, 2009, 11:09 AM   #116 (permalink)
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Yeah... really who cares.. Theyre not hackers trying to steal my identity. I am quite happy with the fix. YAY Google!
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Old November 17th, 2009, 11:14 AM   #117 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by myAndroid View Post
and if we're throwing around credentials...CISSP, CEH, CCDP, OPST to name a few...I've been dealing with IH/IR, forensics and pen testing for 12 years as a Marine and a civilian. I recently moved into the mobile security space, where the threat is migrating, if not already here. I have professional and personal motives for my concerns. Raising awareness is the responsibility of infosec professionals. More times than not to protect users from themselves....

Ooh Rah!

5012 83-87
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Old November 17th, 2009, 11:16 AM   #118 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by myAndroid View Post
and if we're throwing around credentials...CISSP, CEH, CCDP, OPST to name a few...I've been dealing with IH/IR, forensics and pen testing for 12 years as a Marine and a civilian. I recently moved into the mobile security space, where the threat is migrating, if not already here. I have professional and personal motives for my concerns. Raising awareness is the responsibility of infosec professionals. More times than not to protect users from themselves....
And I have a Ph.D. which is totally irrelevant to the discussion.

You can provide information without being rude or condescending. Simply express the point that secret updates may provide a security breach and you'd find a lot more people agreeing with you than if you show up and call people uninformed and uneducated and act as if we're all drinking some kind of kool aid. For all your credentials, undoubtedly the people who want my data will be one step ahead of you. No need to act pompous or condescending.
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Old November 17th, 2009, 11:17 AM   #119 (permalink)
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Geez you people are ridiculous. Here's something for the people whining still..

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Old November 17th, 2009, 11:19 AM   #120 (permalink)
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Google's Dan Morrill @ Nov 17th 2009 11:26AM
Yes, this is exactly what is happening.

There's a rounding-error bug in the camera driver's autofocus routine (which uses a timestamp) that causes autofocus to behave poorly on a 24.5-day cycle. That is, it'll work for 24.5 days, then have poor performance for 24.5 days, then work again.

The 17th is the start of a new "works correctly" cycle, so the devices will be fine for a while. A permanent fix is in the works.
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Old November 17th, 2009, 11:27 AM   #121 (permalink)
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Add me to the list of Droid users who can now take a blurry free picture. I never installed shopsavy nor did I clean off my lense.
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Old November 17th, 2009, 11:28 AM   #122 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by verbal41 View Post
Google's Dan Morrill @ Nov 17th 2009 11:26AM
Yes, this is exactly what is happening.
Link to where this came from, please?
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Old November 17th, 2009, 11:30 AM   #123 (permalink)
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I was wondering if someone could by chance post some before and after pics so those of us without a Moto Droid could see the differences. All anyone has posted before on any blogs or such are the "bad" pics, I would like to see some "good" ones.

The best would be a "good" pic of the same thing that you took that was "bad".

Please?
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Old November 17th, 2009, 11:30 AM   #124 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by breakerfall View Post
Link to where this came from, please?
Motorola Droid camera autofocus fixed in secrecy? - Engadget
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Old November 17th, 2009, 11:30 AM   #125 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by verbal41 View Post
Google's Dan Morrill @ Nov 17th 2009 11:26AM
Yes, this is exactly what is happening.

There's a rounding-error bug in the camera driver's autofocus routine (which uses a timestamp) that causes autofocus to behave poorly on a 24.5-day cycle. That is, it'll work for 24.5 days, then have poor performance for 24.5 days, then work again.

The 17th is the start of a new "works correctly" cycle, so the devices will be fine for a while. A permanent fix is in the works.
Do you know how it determines the what 24.5 days are good since some people had it working before and others didn't. I would think everyone would have the same problem on the same days or at least in relation to when the phone was first powered on.

Edit: I know it says the 17th but some people didn't have the problem before while others did.
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Old November 17th, 2009, 11:31 AM   #126 (permalink)
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I have noticed my camera so much more responsive as well! Love it!! Thank you Google/Moto/Verizon! No lens cleaning here!
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Old November 17th, 2009, 11:32 AM   #127 (permalink)
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OMG a GIANT playing a violin!
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Old November 17th, 2009, 11:36 AM   #128 (permalink)
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I will say that if Moto wants to come into my phone without my knowledge and do things to it that they believe will enhance my experience . . .

Go right ahead!
What happens if they decide later that rooting phones is a detriment to the experience they think users should be having and decide to brick rooted phones or to disable the ability to do so?

Weooooooo. Having a choice is a good thing guys. Amazing I know.
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Old November 17th, 2009, 11:37 AM   #129 (permalink)
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Geez you people are ridiculous. Here's something for the people whining still..




obviously, this photo was taken post lense clean/ota silent update/clock bug/fairy wand tap from last night.
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Old November 17th, 2009, 11:38 AM   #130 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by verbal41 View Post
Google's Dan Morrill @ Nov 17th 2009 11:26AM
Yes, this is exactly what is happening.

There's a rounding-error bug in the camera driver's autofocus routine (which uses a timestamp) that causes autofocus to behave poorly on a 24.5-day cycle. That is, it'll work for 24.5 days, then have poor performance for 24.5 days, then work again.

The 17th is the start of a new "works correctly" cycle, so the devices will be fine for a while. A permanent fix is in the works.
I can somewhat verify the validity of this. If you set your phones date/clock to a few days prior, the issues resurface.

Either way, good news to know that the problem is software related and it should be fine to take pictures for the next 24 days or so. That should time perfectly with a December 11th software update.

No need for conspiracy theories. :-)
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Old November 17th, 2009, 11:47 AM   #131 (permalink)
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For Christ's sake, asking for notification at the very least over what updates are incoming is not a conspiracy theory.
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Old November 17th, 2009, 11:49 AM   #132 (permalink)
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OK everyone, it has been verified that it wasn't a silent OTA, just a bug in the camera driver's autofocus which uses a timestamp. Now we can wait until the dec 11th OTA to have a permanent fix, and I'm sure we will have a choice on whether or not we want to accept it.

KEEP YOUR POSTS ON TOPIC AND NO MORE ARGUING PLEASE.
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Old November 17th, 2009, 11:51 AM   #133 (permalink)
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Nycdroid, nice to see it wasn't an auto update though that seems like a odd code issue to have. But then I really know nothing about coding. At least I can use my camera until the real fix is available.

Did they put out information out about this before we all noticed our cameras working? Like don't be surprised if your cameras start working on the 17th or something along those lines?
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Old November 17th, 2009, 11:52 AM   #134 (permalink)
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As posted above, it appears that this wasn't a silent update at all but rather some weird rounding error in the autofocus routine that "triggered" on the 17th. This is being discussed on engagdet's and Motorola's support forums. Here's the thread on Motorola's support forum: https://supportforums.motorola.com/message/70302?tstart=0#70302
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Old November 17th, 2009, 11:54 AM   #135 (permalink)
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What happens if they decide later that rooting phones is a detriment to the experience they think users should be having and decide to brick rooted phones or to disable the ability to do so?

Weooooooo. Having a choice is a good thing guys. Amazing I know.
I understand the issue, but I tend to leave things stock and prefer not to have to mess under the hood. So, since I am buying into the experience they are selling, I would just as soon they make that experience as good as possible, with as little effort on my part as possible.

If I was a tinkerer I would be a bit more concerned and I do understand, but my impression is that Google is dedicated to open source, and NOT doing things like cracking down on modders, etc.
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Old November 17th, 2009, 11:56 AM   #136 (permalink)
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Wow.. using a timestamp on a focusing routine.. seems.... silly.
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Old November 17th, 2009, 11:59 AM   #137 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Flowah View Post
For Christ's sake, asking for notification at the very least over what updates are incoming is not a conspiracy theory.
Obviously sarcasm wasn't conveyed well via the smiley. Take a breath for a second before typing, it will help. :-)

When we get the official update in December, there will be a notification.
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Old November 17th, 2009, 12:03 PM   #138 (permalink)
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I can see that things have improved too, or perhaps I just haven't experimented with it properly. Indoor shots with incandescent lighting are still somewhat poor, you might have to turn on a lot of lights or just not take pictures in small rooms with dark colored walls =P

Here are some examples though of the sunny outdoors!





The two outdoor photos are really sharp. But compared to the two indoors (both with lights on and off)





They still leave something to be desired. This was all done with focus/white balance/scene in auto mode.
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Old November 17th, 2009, 12:04 PM   #139 (permalink)
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This may be an odd question but has anyone else noticed increased battery life? I don't see how it could be related to the camera bug but I seem to be getting much better battery life today.
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Old November 17th, 2009, 12:07 PM   #140 (permalink)
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My phone is also taking pictures better. I wondered why my phone woke up randomly last night. I had turned the screen off and when I woke up it was one again. Pretty cool
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Old November 17th, 2009, 12:07 PM   #141 (permalink)
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I have NOT installed Shopsavvy at all. My camera now works like a 500 dollar phone camera should be working.

I love it. I will take a silent update anytime if it improves the functionality.
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Old November 17th, 2009, 12:08 PM   #142 (permalink)
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Yes I too am seeing much better battery life. My phone has been off the charger since last night around 10 and it is 12 hrs later and I am at 70% remaining and I ran Pandora for about 20 minutes today and e-mail pushing, took pics of many barcodes to show workers that the camera works, etc... Very cool.
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Old November 17th, 2009, 12:09 PM   #143 (permalink)
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This was posted on engadet by someone that apparently works on Android for Google.

Dan Morrill @ Nov 17th 2009 11:26AM
Yes, this is exactly what is happening.

There's a rounding-error bug in the camera driver's autofocus routine (which uses a timestamp) that causes autofocus to behave poorly on a 24.5-day cycle. That is, it'll work for 24.5 days, then have poor performance for 24.5 days, then work again.

The 17th is the start of a new "works correctly" cycle, so the devices will be fine for a while. A permanent fix is in the works.
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Old November 17th, 2009, 12:14 PM   #144 (permalink)
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Mine seems to be focusing, but I can't stand the picture quality. Everything has a glow to it. Very annoying. It's like the whitest parts of the picture are blooming and smearing. Looks like crap.
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Old November 17th, 2009, 12:16 PM   #145 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by verbal41 View Post
Google's Dan Morrill @ Nov 17th 2009 11:26AM
Yes, this is exactly what is happening.

There's a rounding-error bug in the camera driver's autofocus routine (which uses a timestamp) that causes autofocus to behave poorly on a 24.5-day cycle. That is, it'll work for 24.5 days, then have poor performance for 24.5 days, then work again.

The 17th is the start of a new "works correctly" cycle, so the devices will be fine for a while. A permanent fix is in the works.
My head just exploded. Maybe we need a thread on what other forums to keep an eye on before his board turns into Area 51.
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Old November 17th, 2009, 12:17 PM   #146 (permalink)
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OTA update or not, there sure is an increase in people creating accounts just to complain in this thread. Was there a confirmation from Moto on this 24.5 day bug?
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Old November 17th, 2009, 12:37 PM   #147 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by e39e60 View Post
I'm not buying a silent upgrade. Is anyone improved that isn't running savyshoppr?
I don't have any applications that have anything to do with the camera installed. Camera is working infinitely better today - silent upgrade for sure.
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Old November 17th, 2009, 12:39 PM   #148 (permalink)
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Hah...I was right, no SW update, the bug is date-related...from HoFo/Engadget:

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AlexL @ Nov 17th 2009 9:13AM
Here's a crazy theory. What if there was no silent fix pushed out, but rather the autofocus code was broken because specific states of the clock was interfering with the operation of the autofocus code? So when a certain time/date passed, the issue no longer exists and the code became functional by itself. Sounds crazy I know, but not without precedent (something like this happened to first generation Zunes). Maybe someone can try setting the date to an earlier one and see if the autofocus magically breaks again.
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Neutraltravisw @ Nov 17th 2009 11:15AM
Just changed the date back to 11/11 and got red boxes. Went back to 11/17 and got green boxes again. Could be something to it.
NeutralMatt Cutts @ Nov 17th 2009 11:24AM
AlexL, is there an easy way to set the time or date or the Droid? I don't have one myself.
NeutralDan Morrill @ Nov 17th 2009 11:26AM
Yes, this is exactly what is happening.

There's a rounding-error bug in the camera driver's autofocus routine (which uses a timestamp) that causes autofocus to behave poorly on a 24.5-day cycle. That is, it'll work for 24.5 days, then have poor performance for 24.5 days, then work again.

The 17th is the start of a new "works correctly" cycle, so the devices will be fine for a while. A permanent fix is in the works.
But oddly, still doesn't explain why some were working before the date change...
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Old November 17th, 2009, 12:59 PM   #149 (permalink)
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No OTA people, if your battery is working better then be happy, but it wasn't just magically fixed.
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Old November 17th, 2009, 01:03 PM   #150 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by e39e60 View Post
Did you EVER have it installed?

Nope, don't see the point of the app. Camera works better now though.
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