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Old August 1st, 2013, 06:23 PM   #1101 (permalink)
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If there's one thing to take away from this Motorola X event, it's that Motorola and Google are indeed going to act very much like different companies. Obviously this isn't what a lot of us tech nerds wanted, but it's what Google has been saying for a little while now.

Nexus devices are made and sold with virtually no profit margin, while it appears Motorola is going to sell devices for a much larger margin and be in line with other Android oems just like they always have.
I could be mistaken but isn't low Nexus pricing a fairly recent thing?

If true, is that short term or permanent?

With 2 GPE phones and whatever the future holds for Motorola, how long will Google want to continue a line at near cost?

Probably a topic for another day, just thinking out loud.

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Old August 1st, 2013, 06:28 PM   #1102 (permalink)
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I could be mistaken but isn't low Nexus pricing a fairly recent thing?

If true, is that short term or permanent?

With 2 GPE phones and whatever the future holds for Motorola, how long will Google want to continue a line at near cost?

Probably a topic for another day, just thinking out loud.
When Google sold the GSM Gnex, it was at the same 350 price tag that the current 16GB Nexus 4 is at. It might be too small of a sample space (only about 1 year thus far) that they've had this model, but it seems that's their intent. Not sure about the long term future, but it looks like this will be their model for the immediate future.
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Old August 1st, 2013, 06:50 PM   #1103 (permalink)
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When Google sold the GSM Gnex, it was at the same 350 price tag that the current 16GB Nexus 4 is at. It might be too small of a sample space (only about 1 year thus far) that they've had this model, but it seems that's their intent. Not sure about the long term future, but it looks like this will be their model for the immediate future.
Ah, got it.

I thought that the GNex was more.

Nevermind then, that's the price model as we know it.

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Old August 1st, 2013, 06:52 PM   #1104 (permalink)
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I think, althouph i dont like it, its probably in every oem/carrier's best interest to make a device hard to root. We are a small percentage of the average android user.
Maybe we were hoping that because its a "google" phone, it would be more dev friendly but i trust googje less and lest for being rom dev friendly. Maybe the 3rd party devs have served their purpose now to google by passing their code upstream and google think they now have a good enough OS to start getting evil to the android geek people like us? (Devils advocate here lol)
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Old August 1st, 2013, 06:58 PM   #1105 (permalink)
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I think, althouph i dont like it, its probably in every oem/carrier's best interest to make a device hard to root. We are a small percentage of the average android user.
Maybe we were hoping that because its a "google" phone, it would be more dev friendly but i trust googje less and lest for being rom dev friendly. Maybe the 3rd party devs have served their purpose now to google by passing their code upstream and google think they now have a good enough OS to start getting evil to the android geek people like us? (Devils advocate here lol)
There are two types of devices: Consumer and Developer devices. The carrier Motorola X is a consumer device. Therefore it's indeed in their best interest to lock it up for the security of the average user, not leave it open for us tech nerds to modify.
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Old August 1st, 2013, 07:01 PM   #1106 (permalink)
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Rooting is the same exact thing as getting admin access on your PC.

You can root without bothering with a separate rom, I've done that on two of my phones, I liked the software out of the box.

With root, I get access to full backups and the ability to clean the operating system caches - which, just like your browser - is a really good thing to do when things get wonky. Most problems are solved with that.

Make it a deliberate step. Root is not for everyone. But don't make it hard - that leads to mistakes, mistakes lead to bricks, bricks lead to return and insurance fraud and we all pay extra for others fraud.

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Old August 1st, 2013, 07:02 PM   #1107 (permalink)
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Not "nerds" lol.... we're "enthusiastic about unimportant things"
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Old August 1st, 2013, 07:07 PM   #1108 (permalink)
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Rooting is the same exact thing as getting admin access on your PC.

You can root without bothering with a separate rom, I've done that on two of my phones, I liked the software out of the box.

With root, I get access to full backups and the ability to clean the operating system caches - which, just like your browser - is a really good thing to do when things get wonky. Most problems are solved with that.

Make it a deliberate step. Root is not for everyone. But don't make it hard - that leads to mistakes, mistakes lead to bricks, bricks lead to return and insurance fraud and we all pay extra for others fraud.

Devil's Avocado, the tasty alternative to your Devil's Advocate.
Even the devils very expensive lawyer could not argue with that bro. Glad i dont believe in the devil lol.
Yeah rooting should be something that doesnt happen by accident but is fully supported by the phone... something like how you activate dev' options on 4.2.
Especially since these OEM seem to think its fair to void warranty on a rooted device
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Old August 1st, 2013, 07:14 PM   #1109 (permalink)
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There are two types of devices: Consumer and Developer devices. The carrier Motorola X is a consumer device. Therefore it's indeed in their best interest to lock it up for the security of the average user, not leave it open for us tech nerds to modify.
Modified to "enthusiasts" (lol) I agree 100%.

By the same token, carriers with a vested financial interest in bloatware cut people off to protect themselves. I'm looking at Verizon and ATT.

Sprint has a publicly stated policy from the CEO - bring your rooted device in for service as is, and they'll force it to a factory configuration on the tech bench.

Problem goes away, you pay.

Problem stays with hardware, they do under warranty or their protection plan.

And they don't get in the way of manufacturers providing bootloader unlocking solutions.

Enlightenment is a two way street.
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Old August 1st, 2013, 07:29 PM   #1110 (permalink)
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^^ Sprint's attitude seems completely fine by me

If people are gona be smart enough to mod a phone, they have to be smart enough to flash it back to stock if something goes wrong. If not, yup they should pay for it being done by the carrier. Im completely cool with that
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Old August 1st, 2013, 07:45 PM   #1111 (permalink)
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Customization on this phone is not really anything revolutionary is it? Couldn't we always go to ebay and order different colored battery doors for our phones? Phones have pretty much always come with black and white front faceplates. They are sold in 16, 32 and 64 GB variations. I guess that putting a name or message on it is new to Android but Apple's been doing that for a long time now.

I can't wait for the day that ordering a smartphone is like ordering a computer. You choose the RAM, you choose the display size and display pixels (720 vs. 1080), you choose the processor. You pay more when you choose higher specs.

These things are little computers. Imagine a Moto X with all of those customizations. Now THAT would be game changing.
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Old August 1st, 2013, 07:51 PM   #1112 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by jhawkkw View Post
When Google sold the GSM Gnex, it was at the same 350 price tag that the current 16GB Nexus 4 is at. It might be too small of a sample space (only about 1 year thus far) that they've had this model, but it seems that's their intent. Not sure about the long term future, but it looks like this will be their model for the immediate future.
I ordered a GSM Galaxy Nexus from the play store...It was $349

However here's what you have to keep in mind. That pricing was in July 2012.
That's roughly 7-8 months after the initial launch of the phone.

I highly doubt this phone hits the play store at that price!

If I had to pick a price I'd say about $449 for the 16GB, and $499 for the 36GB if the play store is going to carry a Google edition. As far as getting it from at&t of contract...Expect even a higher price tag.
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Old August 1st, 2013, 07:55 PM   #1113 (permalink)
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Customization on this phone is not really anything revolutionary is it? Couldn't we always go to ebay and order different colored battery doors for our phones? Phones have pretty much always come with black and white front faceplates. They are sold in 16, 32 and 64 GB variations. I guess that putting a name or message on it is new to Android but Apple's been doing that for a long time now.

I can't wait for the day that ordering a smartphone is like ordering a computer. You choose the RAM, you choose the display size and display pixels (720 vs. 1080), you choose the processor. You pay more when you choose higher specs.

These things are little computers. Imagine a Moto X with all of those customizations. Now THAT would be game changing.
I very much agree on your take. I would love to be able to pick and choose my own processor and shooter, etc.

As for colors and faceplates...Yea its kind of cool! But I care more about my processor and my camera then I do the color of the back of my phone. Which is why I ordered a Google Edition GS4 about an hour ago. I'll gladly pay a high premium for a phone with bleeding edge technology, but I just can't do it for a mid range phone that allows me to just pick and choose colors.
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Old August 1st, 2013, 07:56 PM   #1114 (permalink)
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I ordered a GSM Galaxy Nexus from the play store...It was $349

However here's what you have to keep in mind. That pricing was in July 2012.
That's roughly 7-8 months after the initial launch of the phone.

I highly doubt this phone hits the play store at that price!

If I had to pick a price I'd say about $449 for the 16GB, and $499 for the 36GB if the play store is going to carry a Google edition. As far as getting it from at&t of contract...Expect even a higher price tag.
I'm not so sure it's going to be that price. I'm pretty sure it's going to be much closer to it's retail price just like the One and S4 GPE. Though I'd be more than happy to eat my words if I'm wrong.
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Old August 1st, 2013, 07:58 PM   #1115 (permalink)
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Problem with mix and match internals - FCC certification for each one.

Not cheap.

Easier and far more straightforward to offer various models.
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Old August 1st, 2013, 08:01 PM   #1116 (permalink)
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I know Motorola/Google was trying to make a big splash with this phone.

Why not pull a Nintendo Wii and use parts that already exist to make the phone? Retooling machines is very expensive but if using parts that are already available and selling at a lower price is like owning your own mint.
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Old August 1st, 2013, 08:03 PM   #1117 (permalink)
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I very much agree on your take. I would love to be able to pick and choose my own processor and shooter, etc.

As for colors and faceplates...Yea its kind of cool! But I care more about my processor and my camera then I do the color of the back of my phone. Which is why I ordered a Google Edition GS4 about an hour ago. I'll gladly pay a high premium for a phone with bleeding edge technology, but I just can't do it for a mid range phone that allows me to just pick and choose colors.
But you can get it made out of wood and pretend you're in that Futurama episode where Bender rejects technology.
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Old August 1st, 2013, 08:07 PM   #1118 (permalink)
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Customization on this phone is not really anything revolutionary is it? Couldn't we always go to ebay and order different colored battery doors for our phones? Phones have pretty much always come with black and white front faceplates. They are sold in 16, 32 and 64 GB variations. I guess that putting a name or message on it is new to Android but Apple's been doing that for a long time now.

I can't wait for the day that ordering a smartphone is like ordering a computer. You choose the RAM, you choose the display size and display pixels (720 vs. 1080), you choose the processor. You pay more when you choose higher specs.

These things are little computers. Imagine a Moto X with all of those customizations. Now THAT would be game changing.
^^this! A "modular" phone
I remember a thread about this. That would be excellent
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Old August 1st, 2013, 08:18 PM   #1119 (permalink)
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I was going to go home after work, write up a page on the device or perhaps that should read "rant" but I opted to do this instead...

After doing some thinking, I realized this device, like most others, the one S4 etc are not aimed at me.

Sure, there are developer / GPE editions of these devices so it looks like I either play the manufacturers game or get a developer edition.

I do think its kind of cool you can make your own phone, but I mean you could get a case for it, which is what many will do anyway.

The pricing of the X is the real turn off though. But I guess the average user is not going to be bothered with this fact. It is cheaper then the S4 so....
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Old August 1st, 2013, 08:25 PM   #1120 (permalink)
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^^this! A "modular" phone
I remember a thread about this. That would be excellent
Yea but another problem with that is unlike computers/laptops were you have a lot of room to work with socketed upgradable parts, phones are packed into very small packages. If you had socketed upgradable parts in a 4" phone it would end up being the size of a 7-8" tablet. A lot of ultra books are not upgradable for this reason.

As for the Moto X il wait and see what it goes for on the google play store. If its over $400 I might as well look into better offerings.

Im not a tech chaser so I really don't mind the dual core CPU and 720p screen. I was hoping they would get a great camera in there but from initial reviews it seems to be about avg/bellow avg with the current crop of high end phone cams (Iphone 5, HTC one, S4, Nokia 928 etc).
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Old August 1st, 2013, 08:26 PM   #1121 (permalink)
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But you can get it made out of wood and pretend you're in that Futurama episode where Bender rejects technology.
hahahaha...ohhhhh man! I'll take the white GS4 with a smoked Bug Droid case...lol
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Old August 1st, 2013, 08:32 PM   #1122 (permalink)
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Problem with mix and match internals - FCC certification for each one.

Not cheap.

Easier and far more straightforward to offer various models.
Limit options if that's the case. I truly don't know how that would work, so I won't pretend, but I can tell you that it's been done with computers for YEARS. I know, this has a radio and thus falls under the FCC but if they send a unit with the same radio through testing with 2 cores, 4 cores and 8 cores, with 2 GB of Ram and 4 GB of Ram, 4" display, 4.3" display, 4.7" display and 5" display, each display available in 720p and 1080p.

I can't see how that would be a different FCC certification because the same radio is used in all, but like I said, I'm not educated about this. Maybe someone else can speak to this. I didn't know that the FCC would care about anything other than the radio.
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Old August 1st, 2013, 08:32 PM   #1123 (permalink)
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Yea but another problem with that is unlike computers/laptops were you have a lot of room to work with socketed upgradable parts, phones are packed into very small packages. If you had socketed upgradable parts in a 4" phone it would end up being the size of a 7-8" tablet. A lot of ultra books are not upgradable for this reason.

As for the Moto X il wait and see what it goes for on the google play store. If its over $400 I might as well look into better offerings.

Im not a tech chaser so I really don't mind the dual core CPU and 720p screen. I was hoping they would get a great camera in there but from initial reviews it seems to be about on par with the current crop of high end phone cams (Iphone 5, HTC one, S4, Nokia 928 etc).
Yeah really true ^^
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Old August 1st, 2013, 08:44 PM   #1124 (permalink)
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Att confirmed the off contact price to start at $575...$629 for 32gb
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Old August 1st, 2013, 08:48 PM   #1125 (permalink)
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Att confirmed the off contact price to start at $575...$629 for 32gb
Yea aggressively priced
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Old August 1st, 2013, 08:53 PM   #1126 (permalink)
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Yesterday I was 100% getting the X. Now? Either the X or the Droid Maxx or back to the S4 along with MoDaCo
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Old August 1st, 2013, 09:00 PM   #1127 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by rivera02 View Post
Att confirmed the off contact price to start at $575...$629 for 32gb
Wowzers!!! That's a little ridiculous...Nobody I know will be buying that phone off or on contract.

However it may catch on with the mainstream peeps...I'd actually be inclined to say it may definitely catch on, however this phone won't release until the end of Aug, beginning of Sept...And ladies and gents, that's right about the time Apple rumors begin to really swing into high gear, and the mainstream public loves they're iphones.
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Old August 1st, 2013, 09:00 PM   #1128 (permalink)
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575 that is more than a metro s4
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Old August 1st, 2013, 09:07 PM   #1129 (permalink)
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How's the bootloader looking on this thing? A locked bootloader has ruled out many phones for me. The only reason I got a GS4 on VZW was because of the Loki workaround.
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Old August 1st, 2013, 09:08 PM   #1130 (permalink)
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How's the bootloader looking on this thing? A locked bootloader has ruled out many phones for me. The only reason I got a GS4 on VZW was because of the Loki workaround.
Locked up tight
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Old August 1st, 2013, 09:09 PM   #1131 (permalink)
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So basically it came down to this: Motorola compensated for the higher cost of assy in the US by backing off the latest and greatest phone technology. Otherwise it's no different than any other carrier subsidized phone.
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Old August 1st, 2013, 09:14 PM   #1132 (permalink)
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Im not ready to believe its gona be as expensive as that. That would be a disaster for the phone imo
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Old August 1st, 2013, 09:17 PM   #1133 (permalink)
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Limit options if that's the case. I truly don't know how that would work, so I won't pretend, but I can tell you that it's been done with computers for YEARS. I know, this has a radio and thus falls under the FCC but if they send a unit with the same radio through testing with 2 cores, 4 cores and 8 cores, with 2 GB of Ram and 4 GB of Ram, 4" display, 4.3" display, 4.7" display and 5" display, each display available in 720p and 1080p.

I can't see how that would be a different FCC certification because the same radio is used in all, but like I said, I'm not educated about this. Maybe someone else can speak to this. I didn't know that the FCC would care about anything other than the radio.
Each FCC submittal includes the schematics and complete engineering disclosure of what the device is about.

Identification to that level is required for certification.

Data pathways operate at RF frequencies.

The FCC doesn't deal in theory on what that means in terms of potential side effects.

They certify to known, fixed configurations.

In the parlance, it's a known phenomenon to have RF frequencies create a situation where one set of signals couple to another bus through the electromagnetic fields and create something unexpected - a sneak circuit.

It's not like the PC world at all.

Sorry but that just is what it is.

And it's why whole phones are certified, not just some chips that everyone uses.

Hope this helps!
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Old August 1st, 2013, 09:19 PM   #1134 (permalink)
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Check out the Moto X website. Prices are correct..... sadly.
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Old August 1st, 2013, 09:27 PM   #1135 (permalink)
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So basically it came down to this: Motorola compensated for the higher cost of assy in the US by backing off the latest and greatest phone technology. Otherwise it's no different than any other carrier subsidized phone.
Respectfully disagree.

The US provided tax incentives for more domestic jobs and this plan removed foreign trade tariffs.

The meme that it cost more to make here so the internals are cheaper is the darling cry from the blogosphere.

And like so many things, what the blogosphere sells as a one-dimensional kindergarten view doesn't fit reality.

Per usual, the truth is far more complex and far more boring than they're selling on this one.
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Old August 1st, 2013, 09:38 PM   #1136 (permalink)
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Not sure if you've seen this but, meh, can't hurt to post it again. Benchmarks:

Moto X Performance: Legendary Gaming, Wicked Fast Browsing | Androidheadlines.com
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Old August 1st, 2013, 09:47 PM   #1137 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Cincybearcatfan View Post
Not sure if you've seen this but, meh, can't hurt to post it again. Benchmarks:

Moto X Performance: Legendary Gaming, Wicked Fast Browsing | Androidheadlines.com
Before believing any benchmark comparisons, please take the following into consideration -

http://www.anandtech.com/show/7187/looking-at-cpugpu-benchmark-optimizations-galaxy-s-4

Just saying, well-informed makes for a well-armed consumer.

No one ever lost being skeptical.

Just my opinion.
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Old August 1st, 2013, 09:54 PM   #1138 (permalink)
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With the price of this thing, I bet Samsung has a huge smile on their mugs right now.
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Old August 1st, 2013, 09:57 PM   #1139 (permalink)
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Maybe my standards are too high... maybe I'm too much of a tech geek. Virtually everyone at the event is reporting across the interwebs that, despite the midrange specs, the X is an awesome phone. Bloatware and bootloader aside, is it possible that Motorola has actually created an underwhelming phone that will overwhelm us?

Now I'm curious again as to what the fuss is all about. I look forward to seeing this thing in the store later this month.
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Old August 1st, 2013, 10:03 PM   #1140 (permalink)
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^^ yeah all the high end phones are over-specd imo... and that doesnt make them feel good (anyone ever played with an s4?) . Optimisation is the main thing so id love to play with the X to see how it feels. High specs future-proof a device though. Do google want us to have a future proof phone for a fair price? I think yeah but thats what Nexus are for.. maybe not the moto
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Old August 1st, 2013, 10:21 PM   #1141 (permalink)
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Everybody says dual core like that says it all.

It doesn't.

Not by a long shot.

Not all cores are created equally.

Can a good quad outrun an equivalent dualie?

You bet.

At the price of more power consumption and higher heat dissipation.

How hard do things really run?

What apps do you run?

How hard do you think their jobs are?

How much of the blogosphere do you believe?

When was the last time you turned to the blogosphere and read the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth?

I have no idea whether this phone adds up to heaven or dog meat.

But everything in the underlying stories say not dog meat.

After that, I'll trust my own test drives.

Your mileage may vary.
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Old August 1st, 2013, 10:28 PM   #1142 (permalink)
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^^ like an android... (whats the word for them american priests who chant things to the paying public lol)
.. "preacher"?
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Old August 1st, 2013, 10:29 PM   #1143 (permalink)
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This phone is perfectly fine and capable. It comes down to price. Look at the S4, One, Ultra, G2, iPhone and any another new phone to come out and the specs they have and what the market puts the price of the phone at because of those specs. Now put the X next to those and they want to charge nearly the same price. Not in my book. I'd pay $400, tops, for the X. I'm sure someone can find a flaw in my logic but it's my opinion and I'm sticking to it
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Old August 1st, 2013, 10:30 PM   #1144 (permalink)
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^^ like an android... (whats the word for them american priests who chant things to the paying public lol)
.. "preacher"?
Well, that's a whole lot of words with a whole lot of meanings.

I just hope that I'm preaching to the choir.
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Old August 1st, 2013, 10:31 PM   #1145 (permalink)
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Your logic is impeccable my friend
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Old August 1st, 2013, 10:31 PM   #1146 (permalink)
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This phone is perfectly fine and capable. It comes down to price. Look at the S4, One, Ultra, G2, iPhone and any another new phone to come out and the specs they have and what the market puts the price of the phone at because of those specs. Now put the X next to those and they want to charge nearly the same price. Not in my book. I'd pay $400, tops, for the X. I'm sure someone can find a flaw in my logic but it's my opinion and I'm sticking to it
Then I won't try.
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Old August 1st, 2013, 10:39 PM   #1147 (permalink)
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I really can't see configurable phones becoming a reality any time soon. I don't think the desktop analogy holds true for smartphones. It makes sense to release a low-tier, mid-tier and high-end variant of one phone rather than have one device that is configurable. Computers are much more modular and we have lot more space to play around with and to cram things in.
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Old August 1st, 2013, 10:40 PM   #1148 (permalink)
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Then I won't try.

And I expected you to point out everything wrong with my logic!
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Old August 1st, 2013, 10:43 PM   #1149 (permalink)
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And I expected you to point out everything wrong with my logic!
No point. You want what you want, nothing wrong with that.
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Old August 1st, 2013, 10:43 PM   #1150 (permalink)
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I really can't see configurable phones becoming a reality any time soon. I don't think the desktop analogy holds true for smartphones. It makes sense to release a low-tier, mid-tier and high-end variant of one phone rather than have one device that is configurable. Computers are much more modular and we have lot more space to play around with and to cram things in.
Hardware customized phones would be nightmare. Every possible combination would have to go through the FCC. That would cost A LOT of money that would be passed on to the consumer and your next phone would cost a few bucks more. And by a few I mean a lot.
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Finally made official via press release, the device formerly known as the "X Phone" is now formally the Motorola Moto X. The Moto X is a 4.7-inch 720p handset that utilizes Motorola's X8 processing engine. The processor is a highly op... Read More



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