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Old August 2nd, 2013, 10:36 AM   #1201 (permalink)
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That is a pretty good write up! Aside from all the nonsense that has every reviewer screaming about the price, they pretty much reviewed the phone and pretty much addressed what a lot of people have been asking...how's it perform?

Can moto build a capable phone with a great battery, great call quality, and great build quality...absolutely, I been echoing this for years on this very forum, and have honestly been waiting for a moto nexus for god knows how long.

Ok so what we have here is a very custom chip pushing the X and it seems to be on par with the other kids in the sandbox, from what I just read I'd have to say I'd take they're word over say BGR, or Engadget...they are usually on the money or at least on the right page over at Droid life.

I'll of course play with it when it hits at&t stores, but will have to say it would have to really knock my socks of for the prices they are looking to charge us to grab one of these things to convince me to buy one, and I mean knock my socks off! Would I pay $600 if the camera is as good as the S4, maybe? Would I buy one if the battery really does last 24 hrs like they say, maybe? Would I buy one if call quality is better then what's available today on the one or S4, Yes!!!

I would pay $600 if the X blows away the competition on call quality! And I say that because I think phones suck these days and manufacturers forget that these are phones first and everything else second. I make tons of calls per day and like to enjoy my phone calls, not have a hard time hearing or understanding people. To me this is important, and if the X is touted as a leader amongst others in that dept then I will entertain spending my money.

What EarlyMon said is right a few posts back, he wants to play with one and see it perform. I have to agree and take that stance as well. I'll give it a whirl and go from there. Something happen last year, asus and Google spoiled us with Nexus pricing, and honestly that's what I was prepared to see with the X, we were wrong, we were all wrong and have to face reality now. $600 is what these things go for (phones that is) and if it performs as well as an S4 or one that have higher specs on paper, well then moto can charge what ever they want I guess...
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Old August 2nd, 2013, 11:02 AM   #1202 (permalink)
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Ok, it's been posted already yesterday when it first hit and it's still making news, so let's just show the benchmarks.

















And again, repeating from last night, here's the linky - Performance preview: The Moto X sports a great GPU, respectable CPU | Ars Technica

I'm not a benchmark fan, and now even less so since the story broke that Samsung has jiggeredd their software on the SGS4 to detect benchmark apps and change how the phone runs better for the benchmark than for you, so I'll pretty much stop there but the info suggests a lot good about the X and certainly confirms things I've posted.

Comparing to the Nexus 4 - faster on graphics, faster on memory, faster on I/O - but due to the dual cores - slower on integer and floating point calculations. In a benchmark.
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Old August 2nd, 2013, 11:14 AM   #1203 (permalink)
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I can't wait to get my hands on one.

That's the end of what I will say.

Oh that and I am hearing that Rogers pricing might be a little different ... 150 on contract for the 16GB.


I love the community of discussion boards, and I belong to several. Cars, boats, camping, DIY ...pretty much everything I have an interest in has a discussion board. And I love them all, especially when we all get worked up into a tizzy as soon as an announcement comes out. Me included FYI.

Final analysis ... we all need to play with the phone and see if we like it. That's it, nothing else, if we like it, we'll pay for it. we ALL KNOW that to be true, because we always do it.

HAPPY FRIDAY Y'ALL ... woot woot
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Old August 2nd, 2013, 11:20 AM   #1204 (permalink)
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I have a feeling were all being set up for something!

A Google nexus X

I just have a feeling there is more to what moto and Google are doing together and the fact that someone from the moto camp said that this is just the beginning of a long list of things to come from moto would lead me to believe Google will in fact drop a nexus branded X come November.
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Old August 2nd, 2013, 11:21 AM   #1205 (permalink)
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I wasn't going to buy my last two phones - or at least - not right off the bat.

Except I did.

On launch day, once I got my hands and eyes on them.



This one will depend on the storage option and my budget.
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Old August 2nd, 2013, 11:25 AM   #1206 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EarlyMon View Post
I wasn't going to buy my last two phones - or at least - not right off the bat.

Except I did.

On launch day, once I got my hands and eyes on them.



This one will depend on the storage option and my budget.
Yeah I will need to stay away from the Verizon store... My new N7.2 was due to this exact phenomena.
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Old August 2nd, 2013, 11:26 AM   #1207 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by sean76 View Post
I have a feeling were all being set up for something!

A Google nexus X

I just have a feeling there is more to what moto and Google are doing together and the fact that someone from the moto camp said that this is just the beginning of a long list of things to come from moto would lead me to believe Google will in fact drop a nexus branded X come November.
I have a theory on that, too.

Quote:
Originally Posted by EarlyMon View Post
The phone game still hasn't changed and it goes like this:

Release a phone with enough substance to get a lot of people on board, and leave enough off so demand remains for an upgrade or for waiting and not going to competitors.

That's the way it's always been.
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Old August 2nd, 2013, 11:43 AM   #1208 (permalink)
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This post is pure snark directed at the blogosphere in general. Please skip if not interested.

My newest addition to my He Who Laughs Last collection -




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Old August 2nd, 2013, 11:44 AM   #1209 (permalink)
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Interesting article,

Motorola's Pricing Mistake - Forbes

Means the mainstream is going to start shooting it down for price too. Might maybe adjust the pricing before it comes out if there's enough of this.

Does Google GOOG -0.07% understand how much the Motorola brand has eroded over the past two years? The recent Motorola models at AT&T T -0.03% and Sprint fared badly and left a nasty smear on the brand image. The Moto X would be a really intriguing model priced at $99 with contract and $399 without. That is the price point where Motorola should be rebuilding its brand image. Attempting to go directly against Samsung Galaxy S4 and the brand new iPhone that will ship shortly seems quixotic at best.
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Old August 2nd, 2013, 11:59 AM   #1210 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EarlyMon View Post
I'm not that bright today.

Did you just say that the Marines are mid grade backed by PR?
Marines are the smallest armed service(coast guard is probably smallest military branch), they're slow to get the newest equipment. They were the last branch to get rid of the dragon missile system, the predecessor to the javelin, and impossible to hit anything with.
I'm not saying anything bad about their service members, it just seems like they get the short end of the stick when it comes to upgraded equipment.
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Old August 2nd, 2013, 12:05 PM   #1211 (permalink)
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People seem to obsess about price here. I could care less about price but I want access to developer edition in vzw, a quad core, 1080p. I'm not going to spend a cent on a phone with last year's hardware locked to the gills. I see no reason to buy this phone. Even if it were a nexus the hardware would disappoint me.
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Old August 2nd, 2013, 12:06 PM   #1212 (permalink)
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Interesting - and I agree that the brand has eroded, I think they know it and that's why they started the whole rebranding process last month.

However - once again - the Forbes article begins with this premise, and the bold red letters are mine -

Quote:
It’s not a new idea that consumers should actually prefer a high-end smartphone with slightly older chip (1) and display technology (2) to gain better battery life. This is the pitch that has been made by several vendors literally for a decade. But it has never worked in the high-end niche. That is why it’s so surprising to see Motorola try it now.
1. This is not slightly older chip technology. The CPUs are Krait 300s and those did NOT appear until this year, the Krait 400 hasn't appeared in any phone yet. The GPUs are Adreno 320s, the Adreno 330 hasn't appeared in any phone yet.

2. Again - find me any phone before this with an RGB 720p AMOLED display.

Again, from the article -

Quote:
There are consumers who price good battery life and don’t mind slightly older AMOLED display technology with 330 PPI density rather than splurging for a Samsung Galaxy S4 boasting a lavish, 5 inch Super AMOLED display with 440 PPI density.
Once again, let's do some Pentile/RGB math and see what holds water, and use correct numbers.

RGB = 3 subpixels/pixel

Pentile = 2 subpixels/pixel

Moto X subpixel density is 316 x 3 = 948 subpixels/inch.

SGS4 subpixel density is 441 x 2 = 882 subpixels/inch.

If they could have made a 720p RGB AMOLED last year, they would have done it.

They couldn't so they didn't.

They made it this year. It's actually new and improved.

So forget the Apple hype about ppi and Retinal displays for just a moment and ask yourself this -

How many points of light per inch do you think is more - 948 or 882?

If you said 948, then you just chose the Moto X over the SGS4 for screen resolution.

LoL

Lies, damned lies, statistics and the financial blogosphere.

They're creating the self-fulfilling prophecy for the Moto X to not be strong or worthy in the market.

Those however, are my opinions based solely on being actually familiar with the technology.

Statements 1 and 2 by Forbes - totally, completely and absolutely debunked.
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Old August 2nd, 2013, 12:12 PM   #1213 (permalink)
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Why don't you mention going backwards to dual core when better phones have quad core now?
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Old August 2nd, 2013, 12:15 PM   #1214 (permalink)
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Why don't you mention going backwards to dual core when better phones have quad core now?
Better how?

Graphics performance? Memory performance? Application performance? Battery consumption?

Everything so far says this will be better for most applications in those areas.

Backwards how?

With the Krait 300 in those two cores, first phone ever to sport those in that configuration?

You said - better phones.

I think processors are one thing, a balanced design is quite another.
I'm not big on them but let me ask you - do you believe in benchmarks?
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Old August 2nd, 2013, 12:25 PM   #1215 (permalink)
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I'll definitely check it out for sure when it is released, and I will probably even pick one up, I usually get every phone, lol.

It looks nice, but the price is a turn off, but it is what it is.

I am deciding right now if I will get it on Verizon or switch to AT&T. Verizon just waived one of my early termination fees on my account for them not returning my $691.00 for the GS4 I returned two months ago.

So I could leave by only paying my wife's ETF of like 250. So I am thinking of leaving and going back to AT&T and get me and my wife two new phones, just cannot decide what do to. I would love to have the 32gb version.
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Old August 2nd, 2013, 12:25 PM   #1216 (permalink)
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That Droid-Life article is fantastic. I am pretty sold. I hope there is some price cut on the retail price but I am a sucker for a new device. 32GB here I come. Now when is it coming?
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Old August 2nd, 2013, 12:33 PM   #1217 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EarlyMon View Post
Better how?

Graphics performance? Memory performance? Application performance? Battery consumption?

Everything so far says this will be better for most applications in those areas.

Backwards how?

With the Krait 300 in those two cores, first phone ever to sport those in that configuration?

You said - better phones.

I think processors are one thing, a balanced design is quite another.
I'm not big on them but let me ask you - do you believe in benchmarks?
Are you sure it's Krait 300 in S4 pro? I thought Krait 300 first appeared in S600, and S4 pro has the same CPU cores as in S4 plus of last year. Maybe this new S4 pro (MSM8960DT) is different?

But I think X is doing surprisingly well in graphic benches than I thought it would.
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Old August 2nd, 2013, 12:41 PM   #1218 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EarlyMon View Post
Interesting - and I agree that the brand has eroded, I think they know it and that's why they started the whole rebranding process last month.

However - once again - the Forbes article begins with this premise, and the bold red letters are mine -

1. This is not slightly older chip technology. The CPUs are Krait 300s and those did NOT appear until this year, the Krait 400 hasn't appeared in any phone yet. The GPUs are Adreno 320s, the Adreno 330 hasn't appeared in any phone yet.

2. Again - find me any phone before this with an RGB 720p AMOLED display.

Again, from the article -

Once again, let's do some Pentile/RGB math and see what holds water, and use correct numbers.

RGB = 3 subpixels/pixel

Pentile = 2 subpixels/pixel

Moto X subpixel density is 316 x 3 = 948 subpixels/inch.

SGS4 subpixel density is 441 x 2 = 882 subpixels/inch.

If they could have made a 720p RGB AMOLED last year, they would have done it.

They couldn't so they didn't.

They made it this year. It's actually new and improved.

So forget the Apple hype about ppi and Retinal displays for just a moment and ask yourself this -

How many points of light per inch do you think is more - 948 or 882?

If you said 948, then you just chose the Moto X over the SGS4 for screen resolution.

LoL

Lies, damned lies, statistics and the financial blogosphere.

They're creating the self-fulfilling prophecy for the Moto X to not be strong or worthy in the market.

Those however, are my opinions based solely on being actually familiar with the technology.

Statements 1 and 2 by Forbes - totally, completely and absolutely debunked.
I agree completely. That said the market Moto is aiming at WILL read this and other articles just like this and drink the cool aid. All I can hope is it launches at whatever price and the market quickly moves it lower. I.e. the HTC First.

But only time will tell.
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Old August 2nd, 2013, 12:44 PM   #1219 (permalink)
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That Droid-Life article is fantastic. I am pretty sold. I hope there is some price cut on the retail price but I am a sucker for a new device. 32GB here I come. Now when is it coming?
Late Aug early Sept to ATT ... with customization add 4 days shipping from the official date of release.
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Old August 2nd, 2013, 12:51 PM   #1220 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by recDNA View Post
Why don't you mention going backwards to dual core when better phones have quad core now?
They need some Apple pixie dust to get out of this mindset folks like you have. Reading the MacRumors thread yesterday many people were commenting on the fact the Moto X only had 2 cores. They all are posting and criticizing without a clue that their high performing iPhone 5's also have a dual core processor. Nobody cares because it works well. If people take that same approach with the Moto X, it will be a solid phone for most people.
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Old August 2nd, 2013, 01:06 PM   #1221 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sandroidfan View Post
Are you sure it's Krait 300 in S4 pro? I thought Krait 300 first appeared in S600, and S4 pro has the same CPU cores as in S4 plus of last year. Maybe this new S4 pro (MSM8960DT) is different?

But I think X is doing surprisingly well in graphic benches than I thought it would.
Positive.

Qualcomm has always played fast and loose on their processor naming - they've modified the S4 names and classes as they've gone along.

The Krait 300 did appear first in the Snapdragon 600 this year, the Adreno 320 in the earlier APQ8064 processor back when it was the only S4 Pro in the line.

Just days or a few weeks ago (I don't recall) a popular rumor for the Moto X was that it would sport the Snapdragon 600 due to results from benchmark apps and CPU id apps.

Looking at those results and comparing to actual 600 results, I predicted then that this would be a particular S4 Pro.

One of those app developers refuted my claim and insisted that the X would have the 600.

I maintained that they were all correct about the CPU core type but not the number.

The number we know is 2 - and the benchmark results above could only be possible with the Krait 300.

I could be wrong, the Geekbench results compared to the SGS3 (which I don't trust) say it's an earlier Krait clocked faster - but other results from 2-core benchmarks and the Geekbench results compared to the Nexus 4 (the one I'd trust) puts it above the APQ8064.

Snapdragon S4 Product Specs

And finally - Brian Klug from Anandtech said the T denoted the 300 -

Quote:
APQ8064,8960=Krait 200. APQ8064T/Pro,8960Pro/T=Krait 300.
So - I'm going to stick by the claim that's the Krait 300.
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Old August 2nd, 2013, 01:10 PM   #1222 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by recDNA View Post
Why don't you mention going backwards to dual core when better phones have quad core now?
More cores and more mhz doesn't mean better performance. Compare the recent AMD FX9350 to an Intel core i7. The AMD has 8 cores and almost 2ghz advantage yet doesn't perform nearly as well. I don't put much weight on artificial benchmarks but so far this X8 design seems to hold its own.

I actually joined this forum because after reading some of these posts I couldn't stand the amount of misinformation and misunderstanding that was going on
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Old August 2nd, 2013, 01:14 PM   #1223 (permalink)
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Welcome to the forums!
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Old August 2nd, 2013, 01:18 PM   #1224 (permalink)
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Welcome to the forums!
Thanks. Don't worry I'll play by the rules and won't be a jerk :-D
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Old August 2nd, 2013, 01:20 PM   #1225 (permalink)
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The cores could come in to play when Chrome's webkit fork is finished. The claim for needing to fork was to take better advantage of multi-core systems. Other then that, and "hardcore" mobile gaming, dual core would be enough.

Really, they lost me when they didn't support wireless charging. I would have still considered a higher price, but I wasn't willing to give up a huge convenience feature for it. Now I'm hoping for a new Verizon Nexus phone... I must be insane.
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Old August 2nd, 2013, 01:22 PM   #1226 (permalink)
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Just a little note -

This does not apply to the Nexus or the Google Experience versions of the HTC One or SGS4 - but -

The stock One and SGS4 each have a lot of extra software features, pretty cool and fair enough.

Those features take processing power. The Snapdragon 600 quad core handles them very well.

This phone has some unique whiz-bang features too - and X8, while only a dual cpu core, has separate, low-power cores to deal with those features.

Something the Snapdragon 600 lacks.

Just saying.
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Old August 2nd, 2013, 01:25 PM   #1227 (permalink)
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What I'm most interested in seeing is battery life. So far, benchmark wise, it is holding it's own compared to the S4 and the One but if it can get all day battery life then IMO it's a winner
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Old August 2nd, 2013, 01:28 PM   #1228 (permalink)
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Really, they lost me when they didn't support wireless charging. I would have still considered a higher price, but I wasn't willing to give up a huge convenience feature for it. Now I'm hoping for a new Verizon Nexus phone... I must be insane.
They could knock it out of the park with accessories like they used to do with the OG Droid / OG Droid X and car and home cradles that were very functional and were forward compatible the the D2/DX2 etc. Hell, make some decent cradles that are compatible across the X line and the price point of the phone gets more attractive as I don't have to completely accessorize with each upgrade.

You know how nice it would be to toss my phone in a cradle in my wife's car when I use it?
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Old August 2nd, 2013, 02:31 PM   #1229 (permalink)
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Camera update

It's not a 1/3" sensor as we see on so many other phones - it's 1/2.6" - that means more area to gather more light - that's a step up.

And the pixels are not 1.1µm on a side, they're 1.4µm.

That's 60% more light per pixel than a 1.1µm.

Outside the HTC One with is its 2µm/side pixels, 1.4µm has been fairly standard, and as the megapixels went up on most cameras, the size went down.

Here, they've increased the sensor size.

Better.

Much better than anything mentioned earlier about this camera.

Once again - not last year's tech.

AnandTech | A Quick Look at the Moto X - Motorola's New Flagship - Print View

Proof will only come in the final results - with decent software.
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Old August 2nd, 2013, 02:33 PM   #1230 (permalink)
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I am really looking forward to the iFixit on this one.

For a rumored device that we seem to know so much about it seems we don't know that much at all.
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Old August 2nd, 2013, 02:33 PM   #1231 (permalink)
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...
Comparing to the Nexus 4 - faster on graphics, faster on memory, faster on I/O - but due to the dual cores - slower on integer and floating point calculations. In a benchmark.
the Nexus4 has a S4 Pro... doesn't the Moto X have the same processor? so shouldn't they integer and floating point calculations be same or close?

note: I'm not debating or arguing, I'm just trying to clarify and understand all these specs that come in a little handheld and how they compare to each other.
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Old August 2nd, 2013, 03:10 PM   #1232 (permalink)
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the Nexus4 has a S4 Pro... doesn't the Moto X have the same processor? so shouldn't they integer and floating point calculations be same or close?

note: I'm not debating or arguing, I'm just trying to clarify and understand all these specs that come in a little handheld and how they compare to each other.
The S4 Pro is a family describing a general class with the on-board world programmable modem - or without it - and different numbers and types of CPUs.

The one thing that all S4 Pro processors seem to have in common over the S4 Plus and S4 is that they have the high end Adreno 320 GPU.

The Nexus 4 had a quad of Krait 200 CPUs, as I recall.

The Moto X has a dual of Krait 300 CPUs.

Both have the Adreno 320, and both are called an S4 Pro.
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Old August 2nd, 2013, 03:30 PM   #1233 (permalink)
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And to add to the processor confusion, take a look at this comparison of the new Droids and the Moto X. All have the "same" processor, but the "usage" times don't jive with the screen size vs. battery size...

Comparison: Moto X vs. DROID ULTRA vs. DROID MAXX vs. DROID Mini – Droid Life
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Old August 2nd, 2013, 03:39 PM   #1234 (permalink)
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Bootloaders

Motorola’s Punit Soni: Unlockable Bootloader on T-Mobile, Sprint, and US Cellular Moto X, Developer Edition Coming to Verizon – Droid Life


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Old August 2nd, 2013, 03:48 PM   #1235 (permalink)
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Well, Chief is going to buy at full retail anyways, so I guess he'll want that Verizon Developer Edition.
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Old August 2nd, 2013, 03:55 PM   #1236 (permalink)
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I'll throw my hat into the ring for the Verizon DE Moto X.
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Old August 2nd, 2013, 03:57 PM   #1237 (permalink)
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Not sure. Really. I may just pounce on the standard one, depending on how long the dev edition takes to release and how much MORE it's gonna cost.
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Old August 2nd, 2013, 03:58 PM   #1238 (permalink)
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Not sure. Really. I may just pounce on the standard one, depending on how long the dev edition takes to release and how much MORE it's gonna cost.
Past history of Verizon Developer Edition devices are that they're exactly the same price, though release a little after the consumer version and are in short supply.
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Old August 2nd, 2013, 03:58 PM   #1239 (permalink)
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If you haven't watched the YouTube yet - do.
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Old August 2nd, 2013, 04:03 PM   #1240 (permalink)
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I wonder how much of the slowness in the One is caused by Sense. I would have liked to see how it compared side by side with the GPE of it.
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Old August 2nd, 2013, 04:16 PM   #1241 (permalink)
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I wonder how much of the slowness in the One is caused by Sense. I would have liked to see how it compared side by side with the GPE of it.
Modern Sense is fast and a foreground app should get the phone's highest runtime attention.

And even allowing for Sense being slower - the One is a quad.

Once again, I predict that you'll see no improvement on the GPE One. I'm just swagging that, but I'll stand by it.

Screens with fewer pixels push out game images faster, all else being equal.

The Moto X is going to have a higher frame rate.

And they've clearly done something right with memory and io.
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Old August 2nd, 2013, 04:18 PM   #1242 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by EarlyMon View Post
Modern Sense is fast and a foreground app should get the phone's highest runtime attention.

And even allowing for Sense being slower - the One is a quad.

Once again, I predict that you'll see no improvement on the GPE One. I'm just swagging that, but I'll stand by it.

Screens with fewer pixels push out game images faster, all else being equal.

The Moto X is going to have a higher frame rate.
Yeah, I don't expect there to be much difference. I'll be the first one to say that I don't really see the need for 1080p on a 4.7" phone. I actually prefer it to be 720p actually for many of the reasons that Motorola is boasting about the Moto X. My eyes aren't good enough to tell the difference, lol.
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Old August 2nd, 2013, 04:19 PM   #1243 (permalink)
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Yeah, I don't expect there to be much difference. I'll be the first one to say that I don't really see the need for 1080p on a 4.7" phone. I actually prefer it to be 720p actually for many of the reasons that Motorola is boasting about the Moto X. My eyes aren't good enough to tell the difference, lol.
Likewise.

PS - even if there is a difference with the GPE One, it would be surprising if it's night and day. Either way, that was an impressive demo for something with so-called inferior specs.
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Old August 2nd, 2013, 04:25 PM   #1244 (permalink)
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If you haven't watched the YouTube yet - do.
Wow! The X is basically faster...Very interesting!
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Old August 2nd, 2013, 04:33 PM   #1245 (permalink)
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Wow! The X is basically faster...Very interesting!
Less pixels needing to be pushed = less time & power.
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Old August 2nd, 2013, 04:39 PM   #1246 (permalink)
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Wow! The X is basically faster...Very interesting!
Yes right!

Now go RGB HD AMOLED, bigger camera sensor, and additional low power cores to handle the special features...

I'll still agree that this may not be the highest end device on paper, but I think we misjudged this calling it a midrange phone.

Curious, yeah?!
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Old August 2nd, 2013, 04:39 PM   #1247 (permalink)
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so is there defo no photosphere on the camera app? That apk i posted could have been genuine then.
Why not include it?? Its a killer feature!
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Old August 2nd, 2013, 04:53 PM   #1248 (permalink)
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If you haven't watched the YouTube yet - do.

yeah, that last years old garbage s4pro sure does suck compared to hot new S600. MotoX sucks compared to everything else because it is made with crappy old tech *sarcasm*
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Old August 2nd, 2013, 05:00 PM   #1249 (permalink)
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Yeah, that's the kind of suckage I was hoping for!
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Old August 2nd, 2013, 05:04 PM   #1250 (permalink)
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Quote:
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so is there defo no photosphere on the camera app? That apk i posted could have been genuine then.
Why not include it?? Its a killer feature!
A little confusing, agree.
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Finally made official via press release, the device formerly known as the "X Phone" is now formally the Motorola Moto X. The Moto X is a 4.7-inch 720p handset that utilizes Motorola's X8 processing engine. The processor is a highly op... Read More



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