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Old August 6th, 2013, 08:46 PM   #1401 (permalink)
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$1000 for the Maxx?! LOL
I know right? The good news is that when you click purchase off contract it lowers it to $709.99

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Old August 6th, 2013, 10:36 PM   #1402 (permalink)
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Ok, time once again to debunk the whole optimization of software vs. cores.

Most people are already aware of this, but it does not change the fact that a Quad core can handle multiple processes/threads better then a dual core. your presupposition is that only one application is running which is almost never the case.

That's simply not true at all.

A quad core _might_ have performed as efficiently - provided that two of the cores went unused, in which case you don't care.

Or - a quad core _might_ have performed as efficiently - provided that all cores were active and running slower to accomplish the same thing as two cores running faster.

No software optimization required - that's luck of the draw.

lol your giving several examples of how its possible to have a quad core with dual core power efficiency, debunking your own initial statement. Not only that but you have the efficiency until additional power is required, as I said you might not need it RIGHT NOW but you probably will in the near future assuming software develops at roughly the same rate is has for the last 20 years.


Each CPU core here is a Krait 300.

No other dual core uses that CPU.

To be fair there are no CURRENTLY available krait 300 dual cores. If you want to include soon to be released besides the DROIDs and Moto X you actually have a few mid range phones such as the Samsung S4 mini and SGM that are being released soon with dual krait 300s.

It's the same CPU being using on the top-of-the-line Qualcomm quadcore.

High end tech often becomes mid range and trickles down to the mid spec CPUs. The quads with Krait 300 were released almost a year ago, it makes sense that we would start to see them in mid range dual core CPUs

It uses the same GPU as the top of the line Qualcomm quadcore.

the same GPU is used in mid range dual core devices, that really does not make the Moto X a high end phone.

It uses specialize low-power cores for its additional features - other phones are relying on the high-power CPUs for everything, and hence - use quads.

As far as I know the 2 separate cores are being specifically used for the always on and google now stuff. I am actually looking for some articles that show what the 2 cores are really running, we dont know yet if its actually handling background processes that would normally be assigned to the regular CPU cores or if its restricted to the always on/google now. If it is restricted then thats just software other phones don't have to deal with and makes the 2 cores rather a moot point. Either way if you have some info on this id love to read up.

The truth is here. Not a mid-level processor.

You seem to be assuming that we live in static tech progression when in fact we don't, last years high end tech is this years mid end tech.

I'm def not trying to be antagonistic or anything, learning a lot from these convos. Just bringing up points that seem to jump out at me and im curiuos what yall think even if i come off as the devils advocate
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Old August 6th, 2013, 10:40 PM   #1403 (permalink)
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I've said it before and I'll say it again.

The biggest selling point of this phone is customization. But they let one carrier have exclusivity for an unknown amount of time INCLUDING the 32gb verison.

How dumb is that?

There's a possibility that I would actually customize the colors on mine but I don't want to wait for I have no idea how long? And I would rather have the 32gb.

^That could make me skip this phone.
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Old August 6th, 2013, 10:51 PM   #1404 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by halon View Post
I've said it before and I'll say it again.

The biggest selling point of this phone is customization. But they let one carrier have exclusivity for an unknown amount of time INCLUDING the 32gb verison.

How dumb is that?

There's a possibility that I would actually customize the colors on mine but I don't want to wait for I have no idea how long? And I would rather have the 32gb.

^That could make me skip this phone.
I don't know. If by customizing you mean changing the color of your battery door cover, once this thing is released check out eBay, I'm sure you will have customization options until your heart is content.

Don't forget that most of us will get a case that will cover up those customizations, err different colored battery covers as soon as we buy the phone and we will never see them anyway.

I just don't understand the hubub about the customization. Black front, white front? 32GB or 16GB? Those are options on most phones. The rest, meh.

Good phone, worthy of standing on it's own two legs. The customization thing is a joke though. I call it a ropadope. People think the gimmicky part is the hands free or X8 technology but in reality it's the customization.
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Old August 6th, 2013, 11:03 PM   #1405 (permalink)
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I don't do cases.

And lets say that this exclusivity is for 3 months. That means I have to wait 3 months to the get the 32gb. By then something better could come out. Then Moto just lost out on my money.

Scenario #2: 22yr old girl walks into Verizon. "Hey I saw this phone on TV and it said I can pick whatever colors I want. I want to get that!" Employees response..."We do have that phone and unfortunately you can only do that with AT&T and we don't know for how long until you can do with us." Girl..."Oh that sucks! I'll just get an *insert whatever phone*." (Moto just lost more money)
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Old August 7th, 2013, 12:14 AM   #1406 (permalink)
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Cronis - please specify which Krait 300 based quad phones were released a year ago. I know of none.

You stated and I quote - The quads with Krait 300 were released almost a year ago - I believe that you'll find that the Snapdragon 600 was announced for sampling on Jan 7 of this year for production delivery in the second quarter of 2013.

In fact, Qualcomm unveiled the Krait 300 and 400 at that time at CES.

It sounds to me like you've confused it with the Krait 200, and that you're under the impression that S4 Pro is a thing rather than a family.

Krait 300 CPUs sampled this year and only became available for production within the 2nd quarter of this year - therefore - it is not last year's tech.

Can a quad handle more processes and threads more quickly than a dual-core?

Yes.

Can it do so with less power consumption?

Given the same tasks, there's an inflection point where you go from saving power to drawing a lot more power with a quad.

That's not a single application case, and that's the case I was speaking to - because I thought that it was clear that that was the case you were speaking to. Sorry that wasn't obvious, I ought to made clear that I was speaking to the case of the normal use of preemptive multitasking here.

I'm not making the presupposition you thought, nor did I debunk my own statement, I simply pointed out that you're not presenting the power/performance curve in your claims.

And no, most people don't know about threads - and unless they're able to run in parallel properly, you don't know how many cores will benefit.

You're making absolute claims with underconstrained conditions - you can't do that fairly.

And if you knew that software is written in threads, why did you bring up optimizing software for multiple cores when you knew that wasn't true?

I'm sorry - I'm honestly not following something there - perhaps you can clarify that whole bit about apps needing to be optimized for multiple cores thing you said earlier.

The bottom line for the consumer is this - if you expect a quad core to run the same battery efficiency as a dual core, then you'll have to limit its upper clock speed so that all four cores together won't draw more power than your dual core.

No one is doing that.

And finally - if a pair of Krait 300s only available this year are suddenly mid-range because there's only two of them here, then by that logic, when the Snapdragon 800 comes out a little later this year sporting 4 Krait 400s, then the One and SGS4 will instantly be midrange phones because they're using an outdated processor at that point.

I can't tell - is that your position?

And finally, nothing in my posts doesn't presuppose a natural software progression based on past trends, as I hope is casually obvious.

PS - do you know the software allocation between the CPUs and the GPU? I don't think that's obvious at all.

And also - I have two browsers that I tend to stream media with.

With one, a single core typically runs at 1184 MHz and the other is quiescent with occasional blips up to 384 MHz.

With the other, both cores tend to run at 1512 MHz all of the time.

There is no apparent difference to me at all in video quality when that's happening.

You can run the heck out of anything. Doesn't mean that the apps that light up more cores to the max are optimized at all. Nor does it indicate that you need that iron.

And by the way, you said -

You seem to be assuming that we live in static tech progression when in fact we don't, last years high end tech is this years mid end tech.

Odd that you're quoting me and then saying that I don't know that.

Last year's high end tech included the SGS3 and One X - in America that meant dual core Krait 200s with an Adreno 225.

This year's dual core Krait 300s and Adreno 320, as found in the Moto X, will run circles around those two examples of last year's high-end tech.

I assumed nothing. I merely presented facts, not claims.

In fact, in this thread I said repeatedly that last year's high-end tech is this year's mid-range tech.

And this year's high-end tech is this year's high-end tech.

I probably should add back to my profile that I've been in semiconductor r&d for a good many years - perhaps that would help abate ideas that I'm behind in understanding tech progression.

BTW - I don't know what "static tech progression" means, static is static, progression is progression.
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Old August 7th, 2013, 07:36 AM   #1407 (permalink)
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I know enough about the phone, I just want a release date on AT&T now. Anyone got that? lol
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Old August 7th, 2013, 08:06 AM   #1408 (permalink)
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This is funny. I like when people argue with programmers on how multi-core systems work and how within a year Facebook will be running 4+ parallel threads which peg the cpu at 100%.
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Old August 7th, 2013, 08:26 AM   #1409 (permalink)
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Motorola Cheaps Out With Moto X

Quote:
If Motorola’s prepared to spend $500 million on ads, then bully for them. The company had also better be prepared to drop an equally large (or larger) amount on the tougher slog of getting that Verizon Wireless employee to suggest the Moto X instead of a Galaxy S4.
This was painfully obvious to me when I visited the AT&T store. When I explained my poor service/reception with Verizon as being my reason for switching to AT&T the rep immediately started pushing iPhones and S4s as having GREAT reception. Once I explained my Galaxy Nexus got horrible reception and I have used iPhones and didn't like them she couldn't believe it. Started blaming the poor reception of my Galaxy Nexus on Verizon and their Galaxy phones didn't do that. Once I explained we were simply waiting on the Moto X she let out an audible "Pshh!" and explained that Motorola was crap and she didn't understand how they sold those Droid phones at Verizon and we needed an S4.

Moto has some work to do in the AT&T stores for sure!
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Old August 7th, 2013, 08:46 AM   #1410 (permalink)
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AT&T has a corporate directive to push people towards iphones, it's quite sickening. I do find it funny when someone tries to say a Samsung has better reception than a Motorola,
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Old August 7th, 2013, 08:52 AM   #1411 (permalink)
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Can we talk real world here for a minute?

This is not an action movie, none of us, and I do me ZERO% of us uses our phone for a corporate takeover, to run all the national defense systems, to hack the national grid.

They are cell phones. They are meant to have access to email, web, helpful apps texting and oh yea make phone calls once and a while. The reality of what you really need is in question here. With the optimization Moto has made with the dual core and the added systems on the X8 it does what 90% of phone users need and it does it smoothly.

IF you're a "POWER" user, don't get the X, but don't complain about it either. Not meaning to be snippy at all, just confused why people can't appreciate this phone for what it is. INNOVATION.

That said, for you power hungry spec fiends, there are LOTS and LOTS of sheep out there feeding your addiction, HTC, SAMSUNG, LG, the list goes on and on.

Enjoy your phones, let us enjoy ours.
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Old August 7th, 2013, 10:55 AM   #1412 (permalink)
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The latest from forbes.

Google's Motorola Confuses Everyone With Its 'X8 Computing System' - Forbes






Why is there no face palm smiley?
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Old August 7th, 2013, 11:02 AM   #1413 (permalink)
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That read like a rather whiney article.
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Old August 7th, 2013, 11:06 AM   #1414 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Unforgiven View Post
That read like a rather whiney article.
haha my thoughts exactly... it may not have been printed on posters but we have known pretty clearly how the X8 is comprised of multiple chips and what those chips are. we may not know the manufacturer of the sub chips but that is like complaining about not knowing who the manufacture is for the HTC Ones boom sound speakers....

that article can go cry in a corner for all i care, the moto X is a beast phone and isn't ATTEMPTING to hide anything and STEAL credit as this article suggests
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Old August 7th, 2013, 11:59 AM   #1415 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shalemail View Post
The latest from forbes.

Google's Motorola Confuses Everyone With Its 'X8 Computing System' - Forbes






Why is there no face palm smiley?
I couldn't take it any more.

Registered, my comment at Forbes -






Now I just need for their stupid profile tool to recognize my avatar so y'all know it's me.
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Old August 7th, 2013, 12:34 PM   #1416 (permalink)
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And you have been called out by the author.
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Old August 7th, 2013, 12:54 PM   #1417 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Unforgiven View Post
And you have been called out by the author.
Well, that's pretty fair imo.

I give likes and thanks here for insight and positive participation whether people agree with me or think I'm an idiot.

The fun is in the discussion.
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Old August 7th, 2013, 12:57 PM   #1418 (permalink)
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Not sure if it was mentioned but AT&T has exclusivity until November.

So. Freaking. Dumb. Motorola.
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Old August 7th, 2013, 01:10 PM   #1419 (permalink)
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NOVEMBER???? You have got to be kidding me.

I had high hopes that my Nexus will be collecting dust by then.
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Old August 7th, 2013, 01:16 PM   #1420 (permalink)
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Wow, but are we really surprised? I'm sure Verizon didn't want their new Droids to be COMPLETELY orphaned before they are even out.
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Old August 7th, 2013, 01:25 PM   #1421 (permalink)
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So if you're on any other carrier you get black or white and 16gb only.
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Old August 7th, 2013, 01:31 PM   #1422 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The_Chief View Post
NOVEMBER???? You have got to be kidding me.

I had high hopes that my Nexus will be collecting dust by then.


This is truly disappointing news. It's so hard to justify getting this phone if I can't play with the fun color customizations. And waiting until November is RIDICULOUS.

And now I'm lost. My Galaxy Nexus is crawling to the finish line and I just want to replace it with something fun and exciting. Maybe I'll just go ahead and get the S4? The G2 is just soooo big!
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Old August 7th, 2013, 01:36 PM   #1423 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by halon View Post
So if you're on any other carrier you get black or white and 16gb only.

Sounds like the case to me. Where was it announced that November is the duration of the AT&T run of exclusivity?
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Old August 7th, 2013, 01:42 PM   #1424 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EarlyMon View Post
Well, that's pretty fair imo.

I give likes and thanks here for insight and positive participation whether people agree with me or think I'm an idiot.

The fun is in the discussion.

Not sure I'd call it discussion or even being called out. His first statement is
"Wow, EarlyMon thanks for the long response! Iíve been around chips for nearly 25 years and worked for AMD for 11. I get chips. :-)
I donít quite understand your points on the S4 or why you went into a lot of the detail. The X8 is based on the S4. Thatís just a fact."


Again perpetuation the myth that this is just the same old thing.

I am not sure why idiots get the right to speak publicly. And I wish stupidity was painful.



Welcome to MURICA home of the free to be idiots and bravely outspoken.



Thanks for getting in the fray Early!
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Old August 7th, 2013, 01:45 PM   #1425 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shalemail View Post
Sounds like the case to me. Where was it announced that November is the duration of the AT&T run of exclusivity?

If I could remember where I saw the article I would post it. If I do, I will.
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Old August 7th, 2013, 01:45 PM   #1426 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by halon View Post
Not sure if it was mentioned but AT&T has exclusivity until November.

So. Freaking. Dumb. Motorola.
Quote:
Originally Posted by halon View Post
So if you're on any other carrier you get black or white and 16gb only.
I think the original post got some people a little confused.

I thought the only AT&T exclusivity was for the motomaker phones.

I've read rumors about the 32gb variant being exclusive but haven't seen many sources reporting that.

Either way, the drop date still appears to be August 23rd for Verizon.
Verizon Leak Points to August 23rd Release for Moto X
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Old August 7th, 2013, 01:46 PM   #1427 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shalemail View Post
Sounds like the case to me. Where was it announced that November is the duration of the AT&T run of exclusivity?

Moto X to hit all four carriers on Aug. 23, customizations exclusive to AT&T until November | Mobile & Apps


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The AdAge report did not only claim the Moto X will be in stores at all four major carriers starting on Aug. 23, but also notes that the customization options, which allow interested buyers to design their own smartphone, will remain exclusive to AT&T until early November. The other three major carriers will get to join the party after that.
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Old August 7th, 2013, 01:48 PM   #1428 (permalink)
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Yeah. I wasn't saying Verizon wasnt getting it. I figured everyone would know I was talking about MotoMaker.

Anyways. About November.

http://www.androidauthority.com/moto-x-release-date-at-t-t-mobile-sprint-verizon-253532/
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Old August 7th, 2013, 01:51 PM   #1429 (permalink)
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I seem to remember reading somewhere that the 32GB upgrade was part of the motomaker, but that may have been a product of speculation or misinformation.
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Old August 7th, 2013, 01:52 PM   #1430 (permalink)
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Wow, but are we really surprised? I'm sure Verizon didn't want their new Droids to be COMPLETELY orphaned before they are even out.
This! So much this! I still FIRMLY believe that the reason for the constant delays in the Galaxy Nexus launch was to give their newest Droid time to sell.
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Old August 7th, 2013, 01:53 PM   #1431 (permalink)
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I seem to remember reading somewhere that the 32GB upgrade was part of the motomaker, but that may have been a product of speculation or misinformation.

Maybe? As far as I've read that is part of the customization deal.
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Old August 7th, 2013, 01:55 PM   #1432 (permalink)
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Maybe? As far as I've read that is part of the customization deal.
I know, that's what I think, but I can't seem to remember which blog regurgitated another blog where I read it.
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Old August 7th, 2013, 02:24 PM   #1433 (permalink)
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I couldn't take it any more.

Registered, my comment at Forbes -






Now I just need for their stupid profile tool to recognize my avatar so y'all know it's me.
I'm really not sure what the author of that article is thinking. If he's an industry expert that he claims to be, he would shed some light on the computing architecture rather than point fingers at Motorola and say they are misleading people. My experience with electronics design is pretty limited to very basic Atmel and Microchip microprocessor type stuff...but I understand what Moto is doing. Nothing about their presentation was misleading to me. Even the so-called "fake" PCB with 8 cores on it he is saying Moto used to mislead people was pretty obvious to me that it was just a graphical representation of each core...not a physical PCB/Chipset layout.
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Old August 7th, 2013, 02:31 PM   #1434 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Unforgiven View Post
I seem to remember reading somewhere that the 32GB upgrade was part of the motomaker, but that may have been a product of speculation or misinformation.
Quote:
Originally Posted by halon View Post
Maybe? As far as I've read that is part of the customization deal.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Unforgiven View Post
I know, that's what I think, but I can't seem to remember which blog regurgitated another blog where I read it.

Yes that's the case. The 32 GB is only available through Motomaker. If you look at the motomaker demo it clearly shows it. Plus I did read it somewhere that it is indeed part of the customization.
Moto Maker demo

Moto Maker demo - YouTube

AHHHH here - Motorola Moto X vs. HTC One

"The 32 GB edition of the Moto X is also an AT&T exclusive at launch, leaving everyone else with just 16 GB and no microSD card slot."
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Old August 7th, 2013, 02:37 PM   #1435 (permalink)
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Not sure I'd call it discussion or even being called out. His first statement is
"Wow, EarlyMon thanks for the long response! Iíve been around chips for nearly 25 years and worked for AMD for 11. I get chips. :-)
I donít quite understand your points on the S4 or why you went into a lot of the detail. The X8 is based on the S4. Thatís just a fact."


Again perpetuation the myth that this is just the same old thing.

I am not sure why idiots get the right to speak publicly. And I wish stupidity was painful.



Welcome to MURICA home of the free to be idiots and bravely outspoken.



Thanks for getting in the fray Early!
Pleasure.

My final comment really provided the salient argument -

Quote:
A final remark on the S4 Ė I believe if you went to Qualcomm after theyíve said that the Snapdragon 600 would be a quad only, and asked for a dual core 600 with the world modem Ė I wouldnít be at all surprised if theyíd put together a GDS file for that and have you agree thatís an S4 Pro. If youíre planning on overlaying your own name on the MCM, I doubt youíd much care. I know I wouldnít but then Iím not claiming to be a marketing genius.
FWIW - "called out" is some sort of likes thing at Forbes. I got an email telling me that my comment was called out, and available for reference across the Forbes system - or something like that. No way do I have time to read that email again.

Anyway, I think it's a positive thing.
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Old August 7th, 2013, 02:45 PM   #1436 (permalink)
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I'm wondering if AT&T promised Moto a huge number of Moto X units sold similar to what they did for Apple to get the initial exclusivity. Wouldn't be a bad thing to give Moto a kick start back into the non-VZW market.
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Old August 7th, 2013, 02:45 PM   #1437 (permalink)
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Pleasure.

My final comment really provided the salient argument -



FWIW - "called out" is some sort of likes thing at Forbes. I got an email telling me that my comment was called out, and available for reference across the Forbes system - or something like that. No way do I have time to read that email again.

Anyway, I think it's a positive thing.

Thanks for brokering the truth when so few do.
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Old August 7th, 2013, 03:28 PM   #1438 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by swantonbomboy View Post
I'm wondering if AT&T promised Moto a huge number of Moto X units sold similar to what they did for Apple to get the initial exclusivity. Wouldn't be a bad thing to give Moto a kick start back into the non-VZW market.
If that's the case , they better work hard to get someone like myself to buy in :\
Only reason I stay with ATT at the moment us because I have no reason to change carriers - that and I want to avoid the headaches of changing carriers.
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Old August 7th, 2013, 03:47 PM   #1439 (permalink)
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.

You stated and I quote - The quads with Krait 300 were released almost a year ago - I believe that you'll find that the Snapdragon 600 was announced for sampling on Jan 7 of this year for production delivery in the second quarter of 2013.

yep your right after double checking the dates it seems that the actual phones were not released till later... i was seeing the hardware preview units not actual release phones.


Can a quad handle more processes and threads more quickly than a dual-core?

Yes.

Can it do so with less power consumption?

Given the same tasks, there's an inflection point where you go from saving power to drawing a lot more power with a quad.

Thats not really true, while I was working at nasa we were developing a 81 core chip for an advanced STIS that pulled about 12w during peak load. most of the cores were running at a far higher frequency then you see in most high end desktop CPUs. I'm not really aloud to give any more details on it but suffices to say more cores =/ less efficient, if anything it can make a CPU more efficient. what we observed was that running multiple threads/processes over a large quantity of lower frequency cores was far more efficient then running the same quantity over fewer high frequency cores. Not only that but with the large quantity of down clocked cores their frequency could be increased when required leaving a huge amount of untapped power for when it was required compared to the high frequency low core CPUs.


I'm not making the presupposition you thought, nor did I debunk my own statement, I simply pointed out that you're not presenting the power/performance curve in your claims.

I said "whats even more interesting is that they could have given this phone a quad core and kept a lot of the battery efficiency the dual core has. The tech is there RIGHT NOW, they just chose not to use it. "

which you responded to by saying"was absolutely not true" then you proceeded to say"A quad core _might_ have performed as efficiently - provided that two of the cores went unused, in which case you don't care." giving an example of how what I said could be true, although not the method I was thinking of. An absolute statement only requires one example showing it to be incorrect for it to be made false, which for some reason you provided yourself

You're making absolute claims with underconstrained conditions - you can't do that fairly.
in what way? your starting to play with semantics which is kind of useless in this kind of discussion as it does not promote your own point of view or disprove mine. its a debate tactic used to confuse the opponent and as this is not so much a debate as a confluence of data, im not sure what your point is.

I'm sorry - I'm honestly not following something there - perhaps you can clarify that whole bit about apps needing to be optimized for multiple cores thing you said earlier.

ok using your mikie mouse example whats happens when a programs threads exceeded the number of cores available? Essentially what happens when a dev designs his software with 4 threads in mind to take advantage of the higher end tech (quad cores) and someone with a dual core tries to run it? will it be as well optimized? Thats essentially what I was talking about, but maybe there are loopholes I don't know about. I am definitely NOT a programer lol.

The bottom line for the consumer is this - if you expect a quad core to run the same battery efficiency as a dual core, then you'll have to limit its upper clock speed so that all four cores together won't draw more power than your dual core.

No one is doing that.

which is why I said quads can have similar results as dual cores, not the exact same efficiency. but we should be talking very small differences if the CPU architecture is properly designed. You dont need to limit the upper clock level on all the cores, you simply need to dynamically range the clocks so they can adjust to the amount of load they experience.

And finally - if a pair of Krait 300s only available this year are suddenly mid-range because there's only two of them here, then by that logic, when the Snapdragon 800 comes out a little later this year sporting 4 Krait 400s, then the One and SGS4 will instantly be midrange phones because they're using an outdated processor at that point.

I can't tell - is that your position?

super phones have a slightly longer life cycle do to initial higher end specs, they will fall into the mid end range just like the SG S3 is a mid end phone now. But are you going to argue that the SG S4 Mini is a super phone because it has Krait 300 cores, when its clearly being sold as a smaller mid level alternative to the SG S4 as it should be?
there are actually 3-4 mid spec phones being released in the near future with Krait 300 cores, its a solid mid spec CPU core for new phones.

And finally, nothing in my posts doesn't presuppose a natural software progression based on past trends, as I hope is casually obvious.

double negative -confuzzled lol- are you saying you are not presupposing software progression or that you are?

PS - do you know the software allocation between the CPUs and the GPU? I don't think that's obvious at all.

I doubt anyone but the android/moto software engineers know that tbh. As far as I know though most graphics are still processed by the GPU even though Nvidia would like to change GPUs into more of a general processing chip.


And by the way, you said -

You seem to be assuming that we live in static tech progression when in fact we don't, last years high end tech is this years mid end tech.

And this year's high-end tech is this year's high-end tech.

To me since the year is not over we have not exactly had all the high end tech that will be offered. Phones like the Moto X/S4 mini etc are just part of a new generation of mid spec phones. super phones from this generation will be out sometime in a few months and will probably have the 800 cores and adreno 330 etc. making the SGS4 and HTC one (aka last generations super phones) mid high spec devices.

I probably should add back to my profile that I've been in semiconductor r&d for a good many years - perhaps that would help abate ideas that I'm behind in understanding tech progression.

Oh I never assumed you were behind... I mainly started this convo cause you seemed more up to date then most

BTW - I don't know what "static tech progression" means, static is static, progression is progression.

It was just a phrase we coined while I was at nasa to express our frustration that OEMs were not developing new tech we needed to progress our research, they just kept reusing old tech. Aka static or a lack of progress.
To conclude I dont think people are angry that the Moto X lacks a quad core or 1080p screens. I think they just don't like the fact that they would have to pay just as much for the Moto X as they would for a device that does have those specs (as well as high end cameras and replaceable batteries/SD cards).

Also the amount of attention being brought to this is not a bad thing per say as it may even drive the price of the Moto X down more quickly.
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Old August 7th, 2013, 04:04 PM   #1440 (permalink)
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New rumor pegs release on all carriers on August 23rd.
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Old August 7th, 2013, 04:08 PM   #1441 (permalink)
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Well, August 23rd is meaningless if it's just the 16GB version. No way can I constrain myself to that little storage. Have fun, folks...
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Old August 7th, 2013, 04:15 PM   #1442 (permalink)
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Well, August 23rd is meaningless if it's just the 16GB version. No way can I constrain myself to that little storage. Have fun, folks...
Yeah I understand. I can manage with 16gb pretty easily considering I rarely listen to music and at most have less than 50 songs on my phone, zero right now.

But I will still like to have 32 gb to be safe. I'm still considering switching to att so it will just depend on who releases this first for me to decide.
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Old August 7th, 2013, 04:19 PM   #1443 (permalink)
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here's my summary of some moto X reviews that came out yesterday. These are from perspective of someone who's going to get the dmaxx, but thinks the Moto X reviews are good insight into how that phone will work. Droid Maxx Reviews
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Old August 7th, 2013, 04:43 PM   #1444 (permalink)
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Cronis - I'm going to skip over the parts regarding sematics and debating tactics.

Let's try here -

Thats not really true, while I was working at nasa we were developing a 81 core chip for an advanced STIS that pulled about 12w during peak load. most of the cores were running at a far higher frequency then you see in most high end desktop CPUs. I'm not really aloud to give any more details on it but suffices to say more cores =/ less efficient, if anything it can make a CPU more efficient. what we observed was that running multiple threads/processes over a large quantity of lower frequency cores was far more efficient then running the same quantity over fewer high frequency cores. Not only that but with the large quantity of down clocked cores their frequency could be increased when required leaving a huge amount of untapped power for when it was required compared to the high frequency low core CPUs.

I find that interesting.

My multicore processor development was for guidance systems for unmanned flight vehicles.

In the processors we're discussing here, not only are the cores independently clocked, they are provided variable voltage separately for each core.

The inflection point for speed/cores-on vs. power draw is rather high going from a single core to a dual core.

It lowers (and we can discuss the envelope surrounding it if you think that matters) when going from 2 to 4 and again from 4 to 8 and so forth.

And I dare say, having worked with NASA, the DOE and DoD on a number of space-based and ground-based platforms, that most of the experience you're quoting is more than likely for specialized tasks with a non-stochastic scheduler - and not for general purpose computing as is the subject here.

If your experience with any 81 core processor for the program you're mentioning involved a stochastic scheduler, please do correct me.

I'm far from looking at a desktop and guessing on this subject myself while engaging in semantics and sophistry.

I'm not sure that you understand how your assumptions apply to GP computing with a Linux architecture and unfortunately, you're not in a position to get into details on that processor experience.

If you are able to discuss it, fire away.

I'm one of the principle authors of an asymmetric multiprocessing operating system for real time acquisition and control - very much the exact same model employed by Linux here. I'm sure I'll be able to keep up.

BTW -

I doubt anyone but the android/moto software engineers know that tbh. As far as I know though most graphics are still processed by the GPU even though Nvidia would like to change GPUs into more of a general processing chip.

I see - you misunderstood my point, which was - no one does, that can vary by app.

As far as using the GPU for GP work, a few of the more impressive iOS apps do exactly that, something possible with cooperative multitasking, not preemptive multitasking (without a LOT more silicon).

And by the way if I substitute -

It was just a phrase we coined while I was at nasa to express our frustration that OEMs were not developing new tech we needed to progress our research, they just kept reusing old tech. Aka static or a lack of progress.

Into -

You seem to be assuming that we live in static tech progression when in fact we don't, last years high end tech is this years mid end tech.

Then it's pretty clear that you were lumping me into some bad company - which was obvious by the fact that you said I'd assumed something contrary to my exact same quotes.

In any case, no matter on that.

You're entitled to your opinion that this is mid-range tech.

Your premise that this was last year's tech, you've agreed you were inaccurate on, and I believe I've addressed again the whole nature of the processing-efficiency/power-curve once again, from at least an equally solid basis of experience.

Cheers!

PS -

yep your right after double checking the dates it seems that the actual phones were not released till later... i was seeing the hardware preview units not actual release phones.

In 2012?

The Qualcomm Mobile Development Platform for the Snapdragon 800 was announced in May 2013 as I recall.

The Krait 200 S4 Pro Tablet dev platform came out in June 2012 I believe- https://developer.qualcomm.com/mobile-development/development-devices/snapdragon-s4-pro-apq8064-mdpt

I've not found anything for a Snapdragon MDP with Krait 300s from 2012.

And this is pretty basic but not uninteresting - https://developer.qualcomm.com/blog/multi-threading-android-apps-multi-core-processors-part-1-2
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Old August 7th, 2013, 05:38 PM   #1445 (permalink)
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Cronis - I'm going to skip over the parts regarding sematics and debating tactics.

yea im cutting a lot out in the quotes for time sake and because i dont want em to engulf an entire thread page.

And I dare say, having worked with NASA, the DOE and DoD on a number of space-based and ground-based platforms, that most of the experience you're quoting is more than likely for specialized tasks with a non-stochastic scheduler - and not for general purpose computing as is the subject here.

It actually started out as a CPU designed for optics controlers but they kind of stumbled on something that showed a lot of potential in the general computing arena though at which point a new contract broke off from the original.

If your experience with any 81 core processor for the program you're mentioning involved a stochastic scheduler, please do correct me.

I'm not sure that you understand how your assumptions apply to GP computing with a Linux architecture and unfortunately, you're not in a position to get into details on that processor experience.

lol yea id rather stay out of jail, or worse

il link this though as a generic reference, Intel had some similar ideas although they implemented them very differently.

Intel pledges 80 cores in five years - CNET News

from the lack of 80 core CPUs in 2011 im going to guess that project didn't pan out for them though lol

Sorry for the extremely general points but I really cant go into any details on the project.


You're entitled to your opinion that this is mid-range tech.

yea at this point for me its pretty much between the Moto X and a S4 Mini. I like that the S4 mini has the replaceable battery and SD card, but the Moto X looks very interesting. Still deciding if its just a gimick though. guess we will have to wait and see!

I'm not looking for a super phone or anything just a decent spec user with good battery. Would have loved a great camera but i cant seem to find any good cams on phones in the smaller sizes. except maybe the Nokia N8, but that would not make for a very strong smartphone lol
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Old August 7th, 2013, 06:06 PM   #1446 (permalink)
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P3Droid: Motorola Engineer hints that consumers may be able to customize more than just colors in the future! Now that's what I'm talking about!!!!!
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Old August 7th, 2013, 06:19 PM   #1447 (permalink)
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Motorola Cheaps Out With Moto X



This was painfully obvious to me when I visited the AT&T store. When I explained my poor service/reception with Verizon as being my reason for switching to AT&T the rep immediately started pushing iPhones and S4s as having GREAT reception. Once I explained my Galaxy Nexus got horrible reception and I have used iPhones and didn't like them she couldn't believe it. Started blaming the poor reception of my Galaxy Nexus on Verizon and their Galaxy phones didn't do that. Once I explained we were simply waiting on the Moto X she let out an audible "Pshh!" and explained that Motorola was crap and she didn't understand how they sold those Droid phones at Verizon and we needed an S4.

Moto has some work to do in the AT&T stores for sure!
Wow, can you say, poor salesmanship. It is one thing to highlight other products, but a no no to bad mouth any product like that. So unprofessional, I would have talked to a manager later.
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Old August 7th, 2013, 06:22 PM   #1448 (permalink)
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I just left a VZW store gEEk and had damn near the identical response from the manager. Moto sucks, here's a nice S4 for you. Moto's are junk with poor signal, interpreted by me as "my commision is way higher on Samsung devices."
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Old August 7th, 2013, 06:56 PM   #1449 (permalink)
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Android & me:

Motorola is the first manufacturer to beat the specs race | Android and Me

If I got ninja'd... well... too bad!
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Old August 7th, 2013, 08:45 PM   #1450 (permalink)
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Verizon Roadmap, maybe not new info but worth seeing.

Latest leaked road map shows Verizon Wireless will have a busy August, which includes the release of the HTC One on August 29th | TalkAndroid.com
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Motorola Moto X
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Finally made official via press release, the device formerly known as the "X Phone" is now formally the Motorola Moto X. The Moto X is a 4.7-inch 720p handset that utilizes Motorola's X8 processing engine. The processor is a highly op... Read More



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