dg61981

WTF!!! I HATE HATE HATE Motorola for slighting us on this. We go out and get this phone because it was touted as the know all be all end all of prepaid androids and its been nothing but problem laden. And with no support idk how much longer I can hold out. Dont get me wrong, I love my triumph and the massive dev community behind it but this is pure, unadulterated b.s. All we were asking for was a little support. Hows everyone else feeling bout this? Please feel free to weigh in.

marc12868

I could care less. I knew that it was with VM. And I know they don't update their phone's so I'm not surprised.

__________________

dg61981

Screw it I'm with u. Maybe I'm just bein a diva bout all this. But damn it man, its just so damn disappointing. It just feels good to have somebody stand up there on the front line with u. But with moto and VM...neither one gives a sh*t. Disheartening bro. That's all I can say.

marc12868

It is disappointing, but there's always custom roms. And plus VM released a new phone that has "id" which is Sprint software which may be hinting at something for the future, but right now probably nothing is gonna happen. It would be nice, but I won't ever give my hopes up for something from VM...

lou61166

The truimph is not a Motorola phone except for the emblems,and what do you expect,the old saying you get what you pay for applies here,no matter how much people try and say that prepaid customers get the same phones,perks,coverage, and service as post paid, are living in a dream world.

dg61981

I guess ur right about that. Been thinking about goin mainstream wireless again. But they hurt me so bad last time I swore I'd never go back. Its like breakin up with a girl and gettin back with her, and then breakin up with her again. I hate u so much VM! Oh baby I'm sorry, I love u more than anything...kissy face! UHH!

lou61166

I also went from a contract to prepaid and now back to contract,when i still had flip phone prepaid was the way to go,but when the smartphone craze started i swore i would not get hung up in it,but that changed when VM started offering them,in the beginning i was happy with the V,but after a year i wanted something that i did not have to fight with, faster data and modern hardware,and after trying the Triumph,it seemed like VM was starting to care less about a truly high end phone,and the data speeds where getting worse,i sold all my VM phones and went to Verizon and an HTC rezound,in 3 months no issues 4G LTE is insane,that's when i learned if you want a fully working smartphone running the stock ROM,then you have to think post paid, my choice worked great for me.yes in the end i pay more,but i also get more with less headaches.

marc12868

Or even prepaid with a gsm carrier like T-mo. You can use any prepaid/ postpaid phone on their prepaid plans and still get 4g speeds (well as long as it's a 4g phone). CDMA prepaid is a bit different though.

Whyzor

The Optimus V is an example of a good product at a reasonable price, the only downside it's going stale while the rest of the market moves on. The Triumph is a result of short-sighteness on VM and Motorola, both wanted to make a quick buck and run, without the long-term support that is required. It would be fine if VM allowed people to bring their own devices, but instead they have to approve everything and are the gatekeepers.

The problem is all the U.S. carriers trying to tie phones to their services, it distorts costs, fragments the market, and makes getting the latest devices a lot harder, the rest of the world has this figured out with GSM, but the U.S. lags behind because of its "free" market that allowed CDMA standard to be an alternative to GSM years ago.

Here's a recent news headline that hits the nail right on.

T-Mobile CMO Cole Brodman Clarifies Statements On Device Subsidies

soundping

Most likely it's virgin mobile keeping the upgrade from happening.
Motorola Laying Blame On Hardware Variation For Slow Updates Is Missing The Point - Carriers Are The Real Culprits (In The US, At Least)

Siege10

im not sure what to think about that... you complain that its the free market that f%^%ed this up and if it did so be it, but the article you posted is talking about subsidies (although subsidies of a different kind) which is the government sticking its nose in the free markets business all in the name of "fair competition". They basically gave the people developing cdma money in order to keep them afloat. which if they hadn't done, then we would be gsm like everyone else... so in my opinion the "free market" did its job just fine and kicked the sh^& out of cdma, and instead of letting it die the us government stepped in and threw cdma a lifeline... just my two cents.

on a completely different note, so long as moto releases ALL the source code, i could care less if they continue to support the triumph, the source gives us all we need to support the phone ourselves and really who do you think would do a better job anyway?

Last edited by Siege10; March 13th, 2012 at 08:30 AM.

agentc13

The subsidies are not from the government, but from the carriers. They are applied when you buy a new phone and sign the contract. They then bake the extra cost into the plan you agreed to in that contract. The government has nothing to do with it. It is the carriers realizing that they can make more money that way and lock consumers into a binding contract that you have to pay to get out of, or that you stick with and pay more than you should.

__________________

Last edited by agentc13; March 13th, 2012 at 08:43 AM.

Whyzor

All I was pointing out is that sometimes completely "free" market means whoever's the biggest player will attempt to do selfish things and others will be stuck with their decisions for a long time. My posted article was just a news story that came out recently that I read that brought the real issue to the forefront. The next article posted by Soundping is more relevant to the Motorola / VM situation.

As for releasing all the source code. It's nice, but they're private companies and would never release ALL of their company secrets so others can just copy it. They're only doing it currently because of the legal requirement for using Linux. As someone who works in the software industry AND has developed for the Triumph, I can tell you it is no fun at all. I get my regular salary pay for doing similar stuff and the MT work has way less payoff for the amount of time spent & effort put in, even the stuff that has source code, it's a garbled mess without documentation.

rcarter10

You did a damn good job on the triumph. I love this phone, and I'm grandfathered in on the $25 a month plan. I hardly use my laptop anymore if I'm just messing around on the net, between apps and mobile pages this is like a mini tablet. Not laser fast, but good enough.

wonshikee

You can't have your cake and eat it too.

There's soo much option out there. Accept the fact that you get what you ultimately paid for, complaining just makes you look whiney.

You can easily go prepaid with a prepaid phone and have both suck. (VM/Boost/MetroPCS/ST)

Prepaid with a premium handset, have a sucky service but great phone (and pay a crap ton up front) (Tmo's 4G plan with any compatible phone)

Or pay for a premium service with a premium phone and pay $1k a year for less sucky service and a great phone.

Last edited by wonshikee; March 13th, 2012 at 12:01 PM.

dg61981

First off, nobody's whining. I was just saying that it would be nice to have either VM or Moto go to bat for us when it comes to development. But seeing as how this isn't really a Motorola phone, just a rebranded Huawei X6, Moto ain't going to and VM could give 2 sh*ts about us. The way they see it is probably closer to " well hell, u should just be happy u get an android with cheap service. For the most part, I'm happy with VM. But when it comes to customer service and support, they run a close second to at&t. Just sayin.

Siege10

i get that thanks... i was more referring to the fact that the reason cdma still exist is because of government subsidies, not about why you can buy $600 phones for $200.

Whyzor im not trying to beat you up here, I'm just disagreeing with what i believe you think the cause is. as far as i am concerned letting the free market drive the tech world unhindered would be the absolute best thing that could ever happen. the reason i believe this is that i know for a fact that if what your producing isn't worth it people wont give you one bent penny for it, and you cease to exist as a company pretty fast. it doesn't matter if you're a mom and pop or at&t everyone is a slave to the almighty dollar (or whatever currency may be used where you do business). so inferior tech like cdma would have gone the way of the laser-disc if not for government subsidies.

now i am fully aware of how much work you've put into the cm7 port (partially because i use your code on my phone thanks for that btw).
as for the source code issue i will never expect them to release something that would divide their market share, however things like the touch screen driver*(just an example) for the mt is fairly innocent especially if you don't intend to continue supporting it. once again just my two cents...

-Siege10

Android1993

This is old news, over a month old. The only thing they've done recently regarding ICS and their devices, was update the time period of the releases. Motorola Triumph will not be getting ICS this year or any year, officially that is. Gingerbread is a no brainer, but they might flake on us.

Whyzor

Where did you get that CDMA standard was subsidized by the government? I've only heard some handsets that use CDMA are subsidized for very poor folks (which could just as well be GSM handsets, but Sprint's CDMA spectrum is the most widely resold by third parties to keep the end-user costs down.

The government, if anything, should've stepped in like European countries and some Asian countries and set a standard to make competition fair and equal, so that carriers compete only on the bandwidth they provide and handset makers on the hardware & software. Instead what we have now is handsets tied to certain carriers. It's the carrier's way of trying to carve out a monopoly in their own way. Companies are driven by short-term quarterly bottom line numbers, not sustainable long-term ecosystems, or efficient use of airwaves. Every carrier would be glad to take your money and provide very little service if they could get away with it. And they're able to achieve that because the hassle & high cost of switching carriers (even higher before the government mandated number porting a few years ago).

Free markets work well in theory & Econ 101. In practice those with the money will exert more power to keep their advantages at all costs and resources. It's why large companies tend to become monopolies without government intervention over time. Big banks, AT&T, Microsoft, and probably Google eventually too.

millenium

GREED IS GREED, thats why i gave up on my contract with T-mo with all their secret charges and overage fees....my MT works great and i get good coverage where i live but not where i work but im happy

wonshikee

You know TMO has prepaid too right? Simple pricing w/ fees spelled out for overages.

djboi2011

couldn't care less* people lol..grammar nazi

BlaZZZed

The very same free market saw Google go from a misspelled joke to a company in the position to become a monopoly. Don't be scared of the big corporation. They, too, are mortal. Just look at the future of Microsoft now compared with the predictions we all had in the late 1990s.

Whyzor

I'm not afraid of free markets, a big proponent of it myself in principle too, just pointing out it needs some rules once in a while.

wonshikee

Free markets only work if every consumer is extremely well-informed on every subject.

Just like communism only works if every citizen isn't selfish.

Idealistic concepts that only work on paper, what is important is the governing body being reasonable, logical, and unbiased - more so than the system of government adopted.

dg61981

Well said my friend. Eloquence at its finest.

Siege10

so your telling me that in every purchase you've ever made you learned everything there was to know about the product you were buying?... i doubt it. free markets work because even the poorest person has to buy things, whether he is informed or not and that money decides which companies make it and which don't. if everyone was informed about everything there would be no need for a government of any kind, however we all know that knowing everything is impossible. that being said while communisim only works if everyone is selfless, the free market only requires people to spend money, informed or not.

if you don't like the way a company opperates don't give them your money, they are a profit driven company they'll get the message when they see their quarterly reports.

also no government of any kind has ever promoted fair competition. (and there is no such thing, because by the nature of competition someone will be better, thus making it unfair) by the nature of the beast they support whoever they think needs supporting, which is usually whoever has given them the most money, not who would actually be better for the public.

but i feel like we have hijacked a thread about how the mt isn't getting ICS and turned it into a debate about the reasons why/why not, a free market works. so perhaps a mod should split this off...

-Siege10

KinichAjaw

The fact is, we can argue this until our proverbial faces turn blue.
It doesn't matter if it's the government, VM or Motorola themselves who are choosing not to have an ICS port on a device that's capable of having it.
The bottom line, as it were, is that this is old news, and there are several threads discussing the anger and frustration regarding the lack of a port and pointing fingers in different directions. We can sit here and debate free market economics (I won't, I have my own opinion which boils down to "free market my foot"), the government subsidizing phones, VM and other carriers attempting to reap profits by preventing ports to devices that are capable, or Motorola trying to squeeze a few million out of customers by offering a new shiny device instead, that runs ICS on a given network.
At the end of the day, it really doesn't matter. The port isn't coming far as anyone can tell, and no amount of logical debate, frustrated argument or otherwise will make it happen.

The work devs put in is tremendous-they have lives and priorities outside of helping people have more functionality out of their phone, and I'm grateful for their continued efforts. I know everyone else is too, but to argue with those same people about something such as this just seems more like an angry child not getting a toy. /rant

Siege10

wasn't arguing with whyzor about his work ethic i'm grateful for anything he puts out. i was arguing about why cdma still exists and the downsides of, well any gov. the point is we're horrendously off topic, if you want to continue this we should move to a new thread.

-siege10

agentc13

Yes, one that would belong in the lounge or politics sections.

jagris

The lack of support does cause something amazing though, a massive dev community.

jmatherly411

If you noticed the site was updated Feb. 15th 2012, I saw this list the day it was updated and was the in the same boat with you. "WTF Triumph isn't on the update list?" I took it as Motorola doesn't care about its customers just like many of you feel. I think its still some what positive the Triumph isn't on the update list..it could be worse the Triumph could be on the list stating the following just like these other Motorla phones.

FLIPOUT MB511
Will remain on Android 2.1.
MILESTONE A854
Will remain on Android 2.1.
MILESTONE XT720
Will remain on Android 2.1.
DEVOUR A555
Will remain on Android 1.6.
FLIPOUT MB511
Will remain on Android 2.1.
MILESTONE A854
Will remain on Android 2.1.
MILESTONE XT720
Will remain on Android 2.1.
DEVOUR A555
Will remain on Android 1.6.


I don't know what kind of specs these phones have as far as processing power and RAM. Hopefully Motorola will surpise us in the next month or so when they update there upgrade webpage. If not who cares there is always a custom ROM if some of you want to go that route. I've had a positive experience with my Triumph no freezes, no screen flickering, no slow GPS locks. Ive tried the Alpha version of the ICS CM9 port on my Triumph still needs some work but is coming along very well. Thanks to all you all working on this port...hopefully HDMI will be able to work this go around

gabe603

agree, the custom ROM works great and I'm sure ICS by the summer will be out of Alpha and will make the Triumph even better
I don't think Motorola or Virgin Mobile do anything about it, and I don't except much for $25 a month.
If I Want a better phone and service, I will be with Verizon....

OverByter

Not being on the list could be construed as a good thing, at least they haven't officially slammed the door shut....yet. Just one more off topic rant, don't forget that the government has vested interest in keeping cdma afloat and it has nothing to do with competition to benefit the consumer. The FCC holds lotteries for selling frequency allocation, without cdma carriers they would not be able to sell these frequencies for nearly the insane amounts that they currently garner for the US treasury. Just my .02 cents

Last edited by OverByter; March 19th, 2012 at 07:32 PM.

wonshikee

Can you explain why CDMA carriers affect this?

OverByter

Because gsm doesn't use this bandwidth, completely different spectrum. And even if they did by keeping the cdm carriers afloat they have increased competition for a rapidly decreasing finite commodity; spectrum. Another example would be how Sprint was forced to give up their older Nextel ptt frequencies so they could be rebranded for public service, while Sprint did gain 5 year exclusivity on the new bands they still had to pay the FCC for the privilege.
tl;dr
Sprint was forced to give up multiple frequencies they had purchased from individual company's for ptt because in many communities those frequencies were bleeding over onto common public service bands.

Last edited by OverByter; March 21st, 2012 at 07:28 AM.

jmatherly421

These frequencies your referring too are the 800Mhz public safety bands. Commonly the lower 800Mhz frequencies (824-859) that had to be reconfigured by Sprint/Nextel's expense. The public safety agency i'm with had to go through this reconfiguration (retuning of frequencies). It was the trunked Smartnet and Smartzone Motorola systems that experienced these issues. Sprint/Nextel also had pay for each portable and mobile radio that couldn't be reconfigured into 870Mhz range with new Motorola radios. This was the same case with other 800mhz trunked systems...

OverByter

Exactly, thank you