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Old March 13th, 2011, 09:03 PM   #51 (permalink)
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Default Xoom Vs iPad-2 quick hands on impressions

Here are my quickie impressions after spending 30 minutes with Xoom and 30 minutes with iPad2

Honeycomb makes iOS 4.3 look primitive. Lots of instant interactivity, slick interface, good music player, and overall is very polished and the best Android has ever put out. The 3D cube look lags a bit, but looks very nice.

Honeycomb has a user experience that rivals or even surpasses iOS in some areas. This is a first for android.

iPad-2 is way more responsive and "feels" faster. The simple 2D interface and lack of interactive widgets ensures the iPad-2 is not bogged down ever. Everything runs lag free. iOS looks dated though. The iOS interface is also cleaner and less confusing. I can see an apple person getting lost and being confused by Honeycomb, which means the iPad2 will own old people, young people, less than techno savvy males, and females.

If I were buying a tablet tonight, and I am tempted, I would get the iPad2 because it is cheaper, and while the Xoom looks cooler, at its core it didn't seem to do much better to justify its price.

However, a Wifi only honeycomb tablet from HTC or Samsung could easily win me over at $499.

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Old March 13th, 2011, 10:00 PM   #52 (permalink)
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Ipad2 is more optimized and the only part better on it is the gpu. I think it will be faster even if we reduced the resolution on the Xoom. I love the xoom why because I just dont appreciate the user interface on the ipad just like I wouldn't appreciate froyo on an android tablet they just dont look like tablet OS, while Honeycomb looks like something you wanna play around with. I love the notification system, love the ablility to switch between apps, love the ablility to quickly adjust brightness. I love the speakers and soon I will love flash.

Things can only get better for Honeycomb. I dont know what the big deal is about battery life, I used the xoom for a whole day for like 11 hours yesterday and I still had a little battery left.

I have heard somewhere that the next honeycomb update is suppose to have newer tegra 2 drivers.

By the way the xoom and ipad2 use the same cpu, cortex a9 dual core and only differ in the type of gpu they use. The new PowerVR might be faster but xoom was also tested at 30% more resolution and who knows Nvidia might have optimized the new drivers in the next update to honeycomb.

If you have read computer graphics card reviews you will find out that at lower resolutions the cpu really helps out the graphic card but when you bump up the resolution the cpu demand is reduced and the gpu demand is greatly increased, may be that will help the xoom a bit on the lower resolution as well since they are using the same cpu. Or may be if you bumped up the resolution on the ipad2 it would not be as fast as it seems at lower resolution.
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Old March 13th, 2011, 10:19 PM   #53 (permalink)
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I'm waiting on Samsung myself. I have the original iPad so the Xoom is a step up technically but not for that price - especially when the iPad 2 whoops the Xoom and has a sweet case thingy.
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Old March 13th, 2011, 10:36 PM   #54 (permalink)
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Actually, just about everything out there are proprietary Cortex variants, so I'd argue strongly against saying that the Tegra 2 and A5 are just a GPU difference. Based on the way things have been done historically, I doubt that can be said.

If in doubt, install Android System Info by Electric Sheep on your Xoom and look at the core extensions listed. And I'd exercise caution before extrapolating desktop graphics cards rules to SoC processors - surprises may exist.

As for battery life being a big deal - it was just a question and not a bad one.

When you used your Xoom for 11 hours - was that straight thru? Can you share what sorts of things you were doing?
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Old March 13th, 2011, 11:36 PM   #55 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by duc916 View Post
Now that iPad-2 has raised the bar 3-4x what anyone else does, developers have a LOT more headroom to play with. There will be games ONLY for iPad-2 for the same reasons you can't play Crysis on a Pentium-4.
Not sure I agree with you there. It's true developers will no doubt leverage the extra horsepower, but ultimately any major game released for the iPad 2 will easily be ported to Honeycomb. They'll just render down the graphics a bit, but the game will still be there. Much in the same way that you can play Crysis on a lot of hardware, just not at full settings on a lot of hardware. Comparing Tegra to a P4 is a bit unfair. Tegra 2 is no slouch, even if it does get bested by the A5.
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Old March 13th, 2011, 11:40 PM   #56 (permalink)
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A friend of mine sent me this link. What do you think of this comparison?


Apple iPad 2 GPU Performance Explored: PowerVR SGX543MP2 Benchmarked - AnandTech :: Your Source for Hardware Analysis and News
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Old March 13th, 2011, 11:59 PM   #57 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by operant View Post
I'm waiting on Samsung myself. I have the original iPad so the Xoom is a step up technically but not for that price - especially when the iPad 2 whoops the Xoom and has a sweet case thingy.
There are reports that the Japan Quake will delay Sammy and Toshiba's product release for up to six to eight months. Bummer
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Old March 14th, 2011, 12:00 AM   #58 (permalink)
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You're right on saying iOS looks dated and primitive but also handles more responsively and seamlessly.

Honeycomb definitely feels rough around the edges. The few times I've handled the Xoom, it hiccuped on me on multiple occasions, on the home screen UI and on the web, and overall wasn't as smooth and responsive as even the first gen iPad (which is all but flawless in the responsive dept).

Between the two devices, I'm starting to think about it like this: the Xoom will probably do what I need it to with no issue, but being all new hardware and software, there's no way to know what issues could come about until I live with it for a time. On the other hand, while I've pretty well outgrown iOS, I know the ipad2 would fit into my needs. Basically, I see the iPad as the safer bet, but I'd love to try out the Xoom and be able to say it works for me.
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Old March 14th, 2011, 12:26 AM   #59 (permalink)
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Default Yes there is flash on IPAD!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by rushmore View Post
One thing seems certain. The only thing that keeps iPad being the only main player except for a few geeks, is no Flash. (I would be one of the geeks).

If Jobs ever were to give in, It would make all Android options extreme niche players, sans for lower cost eReader focused devices.

Android/Google must be REALLY thankful for Job's hubris in regards to Flash
Flash may be a non issue. Link Here
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Old March 14th, 2011, 12:42 AM   #60 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by reiththestud View Post
Not sure I agree with you there. It's true developers will no doubt leverage the extra horsepower, but ultimately any major game released for the iPad 2 will easily be ported to Honeycomb.
I wouldn't say thats necessarily true. It'd be quite difficult to port games to android as there are so many CPU variants, (TI OMAP, Snapdragon Processor, Tegra 2, etc)

the iOS developer would have to port the game so its compatible with all those different type of SoC chips. Thats not an easy feat. Its fragmented by design, and that could be part of the reason many iOS games are still not ported to Android.
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Old March 14th, 2011, 12:52 AM   #61 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by aohus View Post
I wouldn't say thats necessarily true. It'd be quite difficult to port games to android as there are so many CPU variants, (TI OMAP, Snapdragon Processor, Tegra 2, etc)

the iOS developer would have to port the game so its compatible with all those different type of SoC chips. Thats not an easy feat. Its fragmented by design, and that could be part of the reason many iOS games are still not ported to Android.
Only partly true. It depends on how the game was developed. Unity just announced that their Unity engine can have games ported from iOS to Android in almost a click of a button. With Android having surpassed iPhone in the mobile realm, developers will want to use engines like Unity and other cross compatible tools in order to get the most bang out of their development time.

Besides, my argument was against the idea that there will be games available for iPad 2 that will not be available for the Xoom or other Tegra tablets due to a lack of horsepower. They will be available, simply with diminished graphics.

Source: Unity Android Engine Lets Devs Convert iOS Apps To Android ? With One Click | droidreign

Edit 1: here's another article talking about how easy nVidia is trying to make it to port games. Obviously the offhand comments about the iPad 2 not being as powerful as tegra 2 don't hold up, but the developer experiences with porting are still valid.
http://www.androidized.com/motorola-xoom-to-be-more-powerful-than-ipad-2-says-game-developer/
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Old March 14th, 2011, 12:55 AM   #62 (permalink)
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That's odd....I have had the xoom since launch day, and I have yet to have even a single hickup or glitch, with the single exception of writing in these forums, which I have circumvented by using the app.

I played with the ipad2, and there is no doubt that the hardware is VERY sexy, but like many have stated, IOS just seems like a toy, and Honeycomb is sexy at almost every turn.
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Old March 14th, 2011, 01:13 AM   #63 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EarlyMon View Post
Actually, just about everything out there are proprietary Cortex variants, so I'd argue strongly against saying that the Tegra 2 and A5 are just a GPU difference. Based on the way things have been done historically, I doubt that can be said.

If in doubt, install Android System Info by Electric Sheep on your Xoom and look at the core extensions listed. And I'd exercise caution before extrapolating desktop graphics cards rules to SoC processors - surprises may exist.

As for battery life being a big deal - it was just a question and not a bad one.

When you used your Xoom for 11 hours - was that straight thru? Can you share what sorts of things you were doing?
You could be on track about everything it was just a simple opinion. It was mostly web browsing on wifi with auto brightness. I didn't do any heavy duty work. I should not have said exactly 11 hours it felt that long though. May be a little over 10.
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Old March 14th, 2011, 01:24 AM   #64 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by jhat3k1 View Post
That's odd....I have had the xoom since launch day, and I have yet to have even a single hickup or glitch, with the single exception of writing in these forums, which I have circumvented by using the app.

I played with the ipad2, and there is no doubt that the hardware is VERY sexy, but like many have stated, IOS just seems like a toy, and Honeycomb is sexy at almost every turn.
Very true. I would grab the I pad 2 in a heart beat if apple just stopped making it look like an oversized iPhone. I got tired of the first I pad in a week and could stand the same old iPhone interface. Same with any other froyo tabket I got a chance to try, couldn't stand the ui, I can't get tired of using the xoom. I got the xoom on contract figuring I was gonna sign up for data plan anyways.plus I get discount on my verizon bill through my employer. So I literally get the data plan for free when the discount is applied to my phone bill.
Sorry my xoom auto corrects I pad.
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Old March 14th, 2011, 02:04 AM   #65 (permalink)
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I can see an apple person getting lost and being confused by Honeycomb, which means the iPad2 will own old people, young people, less than techno savvy males, and females.
Srsly, why the sausage fest?

All the cool babes I know dig Android.
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Old March 14th, 2011, 09:10 AM   #66 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by duc916 View Post
That's awesome... yet another compelling reason to go with the iPad2. Only a closed eco-system can have a clear road map. Only a clear road map can make what you describe possible. With Android it just seems you're waiting indefinitely for SOME kind of support for everything that ought to be mainstream. I've given up on the idea of an Android tablet. I work too hard for my $$ to sit around waiting for a few folks at XDA to come up with fixes for all the stuff that should have worked to begin with. Everything should work on day one, the way Apple does.
Every take a look at Ubuntu's road map? How about Fedora's?

Open projects can have a clear road map. In fact, the road map for Android is pretty clear, should anyone desire to take a look at the Google Project site.

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Ain't competition nice? We get to debate more than one good device and OS
Yes it is. If it weren't for the Galaxy Tab (And other major Android tablets), the iPad 2 would have gotten maybe a camera, and some tweaks to iOS. Android is keeping Apple on their toes, forcing them to innovate; and the converse is true: Android developers are constantly innovating to keep up with Apple iOS.

We also have tablets with screens ranging from 2.3 inches all the way up to 10.2", thanks to the iOS vs. Android war
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Old March 14th, 2011, 09:58 AM   #67 (permalink)
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While I can't make a "true comparision" as I only have an ipad, and have only messed with the xoom in the store. I am a die hard android guy, I have an htc evo which I love. But the ipad really is amazing, very smooth interface, no bugs (that ive seen), and the price is right.

My biggest concern with buying an android based tablet is the fact that there arent alot of things you can do with the xoom tablet that make it unique. Its just like having an android phone with a huge screen. Apple has pleanty of apps, and pleanty of big name companies commited to making tablet based apps for the ipad. To me if I am going to be paying $800 for something, I want it to have more than a handfull of tablet based apps.

But having said all of that, I would have no issues buying a xoom in a year or so, when the price goes down and giving android developers more time to tweak the o/s and make tablet based apps. The Ipad is a typical apple product... "You cant do anything without us not approving of it".
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Old March 14th, 2011, 09:59 AM   #68 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PSkeptic View Post
Every take a look at Ubuntu's road map? How about Fedora's?

Open projects can have a clear road map. In fact, the road map for Android is pretty clear, should anyone desire to take a look at the Google Project site.



Yes it is. If it weren't for the Galaxy Tab (And other major Android tablets), the iPad 2 would have gotten maybe a camera, and some tweaks to iOS. Android is keeping Apple on their toes, forcing them to innovate; and the converse is true: Android developers are constantly innovating to keep up with Apple iOS.

We also have tablets with screens ranging from 2.3 inches all the way up to 10.2", thanks to the iOS vs. Android war


Completely agree.
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Old March 14th, 2011, 10:26 AM   #69 (permalink)
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Well I gave my Xoom back since I had problems with it I wanted to like it since I love my Droid X but it seems a little rush. Had the Ipad 1st gen but gave it to my Mom and now Have the Ipad 2nd gen on Verizon. I like both platform and once Honeycomb gets more support I definitely will return since there will be more Android tablets release.
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Old March 14th, 2011, 10:40 AM   #70 (permalink)
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My take:

I own both the ipad2 and the Xoom, and have owned and sold the Galaxy Tab and the Ipad 1.

Right now, I can't say that the Xoom is a competitor to the Ipad 2. While I love Honeycomb and thing it is a MUCH and I stress MUCH better os than iOS, there is more to the tablet experience than just the OS.
-The ecosystem is lagging behind iOS...now I truly believe that it will catch up. But since everyone is SO focused on tablet specific apps (the app wars sort of start over), the xoom is like the OG Droid....so I am assuming half a year to a year to catch up. I think the android phone apps have pretty much caught up to the Iphone, but in the tablet space it is still no competition.
-The problem is that Google does not 100% control android's destiny...they need hardware companies to step up, which is hard for them since their only revenue (Assumption here) is from hardware sales, where as apple takes some of the pie from ap purchases, and will now be gauging the in app purchases. I don't think many people will claim that the Xoom feels better in the hand than the iPad 2...I for one was a HUGE skeptic and thought no way does being that thin/light have any bearing on me (I bought the Xoom first on the first day it came out). I was wrong, the ipad 2 blows the Xoom away in hands on feel. I think the galaxy 10.1 can do very well since it is VERY light, but people also want something that LOOKs cool. You may deny it, but looks play a huge role in purchase decisions…think luxury cars. REALLY wish Nokia stepped into the Android world.
-I just got the feeling that Apple thought the iPad 2 out much more than Motorola with the Xoom. To me, Apple’s rise to the top was beyond the product/software/marketing efforts. Their supply chain and actual operational management has been phenomenal. I mean, look what they brought to the table from day 1…a well designed tablet, redesigned apps (iMovie and Garageband are cool no denying that), a new cover (that while I think is stupid and a waste of money, LOOKs cool and has enough feature points that they will definitely make money on it), and shipped right away.
- Xoom on the other hand…no wifi version (whether carriers had an influence or not is moot, there is still no wifi version), a half-assed movie studio (again don’t care if it is free, people compare two products…$5 isn’t much anyways and there is definitely more than $5 worth of features on iMovie), a crappy ass case, and a craptastic box. Why do I care about these things? Honestly, I don’t but I am reviewing the product…
The Xoom price point is awful. I know the value, when you compare the Xoom versus the 32GB 3g version, is good, but the point is that 800 is too much for most people. It’s the same thought, there are Ferarris for $100,000 that are GREAT value for the performance, look, etc, but I still won’t buy one…Even if the wifi was more expensive than the wifi equivalent iPads, they still should have released them. I think people ARE open to paying more for an Android tablet, but it still needs to be within a certain price range. I would have jumped on a 32GB Xoom if it was even 650-700.
Apple claims their product is “magical” and I will be honest, everything from the second you get the box to opening the item etc is about as “magical” as a company can make it. That is what Apple gets and Motorola doesn’t….the product isn’t everything, it is the experience…the total experience of ownership. It is that feeling when you get your first brand new car, your first house, which Apple recreates with their tablets/phones/etc.

Right now I think the Xoom is going back, but I still use a Nexus S because there are things on the Android phone I can’t live without…Google Nav is one HUGE thing…which is sort of useless as an argument in the tablet world…I use my phone for nav not my tablet. Customization is more important on my phone than my tablet…when I am on my tablet, I am on it to do something, so apps are more important to me in that space.

My 2 cents. Looking forward to what HTC and Samsung can offer. IMO HTC is the hope of the best hardware for android devices. Their phones are built better than Apple’s…I hope this translates into the tablet world. HTC (IMO) gets what Apple has been doing. What Google needs to do is brand a Nexus line of Phones and Tablets that are stock and meant to go head to head with Apples products directly. Right now, in the consumer mind, it is Droid versus Apple…Google needs to reshape everything to be Nexus versus Apple…everything else android can be there, but they need that ONE device that beats the piss out of apple from a hardware and software side. Pair up with HTC and build an amazing Nexus phone and tablet.
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Old March 14th, 2011, 11:13 AM   #71 (permalink)
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Great write-up, frenzy757. You've summarized my feelings on the subject pretty well. I'm waiting for:

1) iPad 2 shipments to show up in B&M stores nearby, or
2) A cheap Android competitor

Even if #2 occurs before #1, I may have to reconsider the decision and wait on the iPad. It "felt" great in my hands and gave a very smooth experience, whereas with the Xoom, there was more of a feeling of drag; resistance; something holding it back. Moving between screens was not nearly as smooth as the iPad 2, and live wallpaper really brought it to a crawl. Had Flash been available when I played with the Xoom, that may have been a game-changer. I admittedly do not want to be without Flash. If nothing else, you gotta admit Apple revolutionized the touch-screen experience with the first iPhone, and continues to own it.

And you're right, it's very much about the ecosystem, although I'm not too worried about a lack of Android app availability over the long term.
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Old March 14th, 2011, 11:19 AM   #72 (permalink)
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I think it would be great if posters did not use adjectives that are simply not true. For example:

"Live wallpaper really brought it to a crawl"
"It is lightning fast"

I think readers may take these comments seriously and be either disappointed with a purchase or not buy a product that really would fit their needs.
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Old March 14th, 2011, 12:11 PM   #73 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mulder_fbi View Post
I will probably get an ipad2 and a cheap android tablet. I can't decide if either tablet will be 3g/4g or not. My tablet budget can only go so high.



That's why i chuckle when ppl talk about specs. What good are they if your device still crawls when performing basic functionality.

If you do get a cheap android tablet, may I strongly suggest you dont get the "flytouch 2". If you look at all of the issues it has, its not worth it for the $200. While it is the cheapest with the biggest specs. It is barely functional.

I'd just wait for the galaxy tab's price to drop, which Im sure it will within 6mo's.
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Old March 14th, 2011, 12:16 PM   #74 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rjoudrey View Post
I think it would be great if posters did not use adjectives that are simply not true. For example:

"Live wallpaper really brought it to a crawl"
"It is lightning fast"

I think readers may take these comments seriously and be either disappointed with a purchase or not buy a product that really would fit their needs.
Those are subjective things I've noticed about it myself in playing with both tabs for around 15 minutes each at Best Buy, it's not some measurable benchmark to be taken as fact. You can go to your local Best Buy (or other BM retailer) and play with both yourself to make a decision; I'm not here to make a decision for anyone but myself.

Readers should take others' comments seriously. Otherwise, why do we have discuss these things at all? Your posting history leads me to believe you aren't open-minded enough to accept that the iPad 2 may just be a better product, at least for some. It is yet to be seen whether it will outsell Honeycomb tablets, but I personally believe it will outsell all of them, collectively, throughout the next 6 months.

I like the iPad 2 more than the Xoom, considering my limited experience and research on both, but if Motorola released a $499 wifi-only Xoom, I'd have to reconsider. Even then, $100 more for the 32GB iPad 2 wouldn't be out of the question, because of the fluidity and pleasantness of the experience I had with it versus the Xoom.

Something just came to mind as I was typing this all up...the iPad experience makes a quick impression on one, but I wonder if that experience really holds up to the more diverse/customizable experience one could have with a Honeycomb tablet over a long period of time. Perhaps one would have buyer's remorse when they get bored with their iPad in 6 months and wish they could customize their screens with widgets and apps, or their favorite website requires Flash. All things to consider...
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Old March 14th, 2011, 12:18 PM   #75 (permalink)
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What Google needs to do is brand a Nexus line of Phones and Tablets that are stock and meant to go head to head with Apples products directly. Right now, in the consumer mind, it is Droid versus Apple…Google needs to reshape everything to be Nexus versus Apple…
I was under the impression the XOOM was a "Google Experience" device; meaning it is suppose to be "PURE" google w/out the bloated add-on. That was the take-away I got from CES and the Google Honeycomb launch.

I also agree w/ the weight & feel observations. I was very skeptical about the 33% lighter/smaller claim. Like, how much more comfortable can it be? When I compare it to my NOOK, it is only 3 ounce more. The weight savings and form-factor is a quantum leap from the previous iteration. I have a 3 year old nephew. He was playing with the iPad 2 for about 2 hours with no discomfort. He was lying on his back in the living room with one hand and another hand dragging movie clips into an iMovie timeline. Watching a toddler edit videos was very inspiring.

That is why I am looking forward to what comes around in May/June from the Taiwanese & Koreans.

Also, I have to say the iPad 2's camera is mediocre at best. However, the iOS devices have working video skype. I'd trade out a 12 megapixel front facing camera for a VGA camera on any tablet that has working video skype. The Fring and other work-around is not a solution. I know android owners who have been waiting for video skype since last February.
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Old March 14th, 2011, 12:22 PM   #76 (permalink)
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If you do get a cheap android tablet, may I strongly suggest you dont get the "flytouch 2". If you look at all of the issues it has, its not worth it for the $200. While it is the cheapest with the biggest specs. It is barely functional.

I'd just wait for the galaxy tab's price to drop, which Im sure it will within 6mo's.
NOOK. NOOK. Psst. NOOK color can be had for $200. You can dual boot too. Eclair/Froyo and Honeycomb.
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Old March 14th, 2011, 12:22 PM   #77 (permalink)
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Those are subjective things I've noticed about it myself in playing with both tabs for around 15 minutes each at Best Buy, it's not some measurable benchmark to be taken as fact. You can go to your local Best Buy (or other BM retailer) and play with both yourself to make a decision; I'm not here to make a decision for anyone but myself.

Readers should take others' comments seriously. Otherwise, why do we have discuss these things at all? Your posting history leads me to believe you aren't open-minded enough to accept that the iPad 2 may just be a better product, at least for some. It is yet to be seen whether it will outsell Honeycomb tablets, but I personally believe it will outsell all of them, collectively, throughout the next 6 months.

I like the iPad 2 more than the Xoom, considering my limited experience and research on both, but if Motorola released a $499 wifi-only Xoom, I'd have to reconsider. Even then, $100 more for the 32GB iPad 2 wouldn't be out of the question, because of the fluidity and pleasantness of the experience I had with it versus the Xoom.

Something just came to mind as I was typing this all up...the iPad experience makes a quick impression on one, but I wonder if that experience really holds up to the more diverse/customizable experience one could have with a Honeycomb tablet over a long period of time. Perhaps one would have buyer's remorse when they get bored with their iPad in 6 months and wish they could customize their screens with widgets and apps, or their favorite website requires Flash. All things to consider...
Didn't think my comment had any orientation product wise. After all being on probation I am very careful about what I say.
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Old March 14th, 2011, 12:23 PM   #78 (permalink)
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I was under the impression the XOOM was a "Google Experience" device; meaning it is suppose to be "PURE" google w/out the bloated add-on. That was the take-away I got from CES and the Google Honeycomb launch.

[...]

Also, I have to say the iPad 2's camera is mediocre at best. However, the iOS devices have working video skype. I'd trade out a 12 megapixel front facing camera for a VGA camera on any tablet that has working video skype. The Fring and other work-around is not a solution. I know android owners who have been waiting for video skype since last February.

While Xoom is the "Google Experience," I still had some apps loaded on it to start with. Also what I was really talking about was for Google to really BACK the Nexus Tablet/Phone. Basically, they need a real flagship that is treated as such. Needs to have superior marketing behind it, needs to be designed by Google and Motorola/htc/samsung (whatever company gets to be the head company). Basically, Google needs to market so that people think Nexus versus Iphone, not Droid versus Iphone. Right now the brand name of Android is around the Droid moniker and Motorola. Which is not smart. Lots of people I know (both android and non android users) call android the "droid" phones. The benchmark for smoothness etc should come from these Nexus phones/tablets.

I agree with you on the cameras, they do their function, which is to video chat, and record video when needed.
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Old March 14th, 2011, 12:27 PM   #79 (permalink)
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Please remember, with text in a forum no one can see faces or hear tones of voice - so, let's not presume too much on people's posting intentions.

None of us are perfect writers or readers because those things don't exist - I am living proof.

Even if that were possible, please remember this surely applies to us all: your mileage may vary.

Cheers, many thanks.
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Old March 14th, 2011, 12:27 PM   #80 (permalink)
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It was my understanding that the Xoom is Pure Google Experience. Has something changed?
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Old March 14th, 2011, 12:49 PM   #81 (permalink)
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Mulder_FBI - This is my thinking as well. I already have a cheap Android Tablet in the Nook Color (that runs Honeycomb well enough for my interests). I will purchase an iPad 2 once they are back in stock. It's one heck of a tablet and extremely smooth and fast. Apple just knows what they are doing. I already have a 32gb iPod Touch (3rd Gen) and have an Apple ecosystem in place so syncing all my Apps, Music and Movies will be a breeze. I really think Moto screwed up by not having a $500 WiFi ONLY unit at release. I would have jumped all over that day one BUT by not having that it allowed me to wait and see what Apple had in store with the iPad 2.
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Old March 14th, 2011, 12:54 PM   #82 (permalink)
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Some really good points you have there, frenzy. It's much easier for Apple to market the iphone as there's only ONE phone they are marketing. Android will never get the mass market appeal from buyers because of this reason. There are simply too many 'Android devices' that one doesn't really outshine the other to outside the iPhone. Also, Apple has a deep market penetration with being the 'first company' to release the tablet. For the mass people, iPad is synonymous with tablet. So, any tablets released now must compete not only with the iPad but be dubbed as an 'iPad copy cat'.
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Old March 14th, 2011, 01:23 PM   #83 (permalink)
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Yea, but, the same situation existed with the iPhone. I mean, when that thing was released it really took the world by storm in the smartphone space. Now Android leads in sales. (Mostly due to the sheer number of phones that use the OS). We're at the *VERY BEGINNING* of the Android tablet effort. You can probably successfully argue that until Honeycomb, there wasn't a serious Android tablet effort going on. Now what needs to happen is the apps and hardware has to become ubiquitous. That's what's happened in the Android phone space, right? And since, in theory, Android tablets will start with Honeycomb as a base, some of the "fragmentation" we've seen in the past "should" be dealt with as Google learns from its past mistakes. Will Android catch up overnight? No, not a chance of that happening. But, they're in it for the long haul and the thing that makes Android successful is its "openness". Allowing developers to sink their teeth in and become innovative. And even though Honeycomb is new, it won't take devs that long to get up to speed on developing for it because they're already used to the Android dev env. So, I think Android has a lot of catching up to do, but, it won't take nearly as long as it did in the phone space.
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Old March 14th, 2011, 01:26 PM   #84 (permalink)
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Don't sleep on the Nook because Honeycomb is not officially supported. It runs pretty damn good (especially for the SDK that was released). When AOSP is released, the Nook will have a really nice version of Honeycomb. Heck, I prefer XDA over anyone else. They know what they are doing.
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Old March 14th, 2011, 01:30 PM   #85 (permalink)
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The thing that also helped Android (as far as phones are concerned) is BOGO's. Pricing helped Android tremendously. This is where the Android Tablet makers are horribly failing. Trying to go up against Apple with a much higher price point is not going to work. They got marketshare in the phone space because of aggressive pricing, they need to do the same with tablets
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Old March 14th, 2011, 01:35 PM   #86 (permalink)
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Don't sleep on the Nook because Honeycomb is not officially supported. It runs pretty damn good (especially for the SDK that was released). When AOSP is released, the Nook will have a really nice version of Honeycomb. Heck, I prefer XDA over anyone else. They know what they are doing.
I'm considering picking one of these up. How difficult/involved is it to get Honeycomb on it?

(I know this is off topic, so it you can direct me or PM me that's great).
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Old March 14th, 2011, 01:36 PM   #87 (permalink)
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My mind is slowly starting to turn on Apple. I have always opposed Apple products because of the Apple Tax which garners you a mediocre, underpowered device compared to the competition at a premium price. This was especially true with the iPhone 2g, 3g, and 3gs. I just kinda yawned at them spec wise. However the iPhone 4 seemed to indicate a tide change for Apple. The iPhone 4 is one of the most impressively spec'd phones on the market (comparable to my EVO in a lot of ways) and is reasonably priced with its competition. The Macbook Air is a very well powered device while not breaking the bank. In fact, most ultra-portable 11 and 13 inch windows based laptops cost more and are stuck with Intel extreme graphics.

The iPad 2 is an exceptionally powered device which has an industrial design that is hard to beat. The only area Apple seems to have skimped on is the cameras (which is a disappointment because it was a primary reason I sat out the first round of the iPad). My only major complaint left is that iOS is incredibly gimped compared to honeycomb and their walled garden will leave out such critical apps such as console emulators and flash support. Critical enough to keep me waiting for a decently spec'ed (can anyone besides Apple get an IPS panel PLEASE?!?), and more importantly decently priced Honeycomb tablet.

Beyond the iPhone 4, iPad 2, and Macbook Air, the Apple tax is still in full effect and I cannot in my right mind recommend any other Apple products to people in the market for something new. An all aluminum body is not worth a $1000 premium on a laptop to me. If the Xoom were actually competitively priced, I think it would be a slam dunk (or any other similarly spec'ed tablet like the Galaxy Tab 10.1). With Apple offering their products at a competitive price point, I'm having a hard time arguing against them.
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Old March 14th, 2011, 01:40 PM   #88 (permalink)
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I'm considering picking one of these up. How difficult/involved is it to get Honeycomb on it?

(I know this is off topic, so it you can direct me or PM me that's great).
My buds using them insist it's quite easy, and avoid anyone selling a pre-loaded SD card with Honeycomb installed, a total rip-off.

Anyway, all of the inner mysteries of the Nook are revealed at - B&N NOOKcolor - Android Forums
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Old March 14th, 2011, 01:47 PM   #89 (permalink)
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I really think Moto screwed up by not having a $500 WiFi ONLY unit at release. I would have jumped all over that day one BUT by not having that it allowed me to wait and see what Apple had in store with the iPad 2.
Exactly, even at $599, I would have bitten on it. I got antsy at lunch and put down a deposit on the iPad 2 at BB instead. Still in love with my Evo, though. Hope the Android tablet situation gets sorted out within 6 months to a year.
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Old March 14th, 2011, 01:48 PM   #90 (permalink)
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Exactly, even at $599, I would have bitten on it. I got antsy at lunch and put down a deposit on the iPad 2 at BB instead. Still in love with my Evo, though. Hope the Android tablet situation gets sorted out within 6 months to a year.
It will and then it will take over the tablet market just like it has the phone market.
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Old March 14th, 2011, 01:52 PM   #91 (permalink)
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The thing that also helped Android (as far as phones are concerned) is BOGO's. Pricing helped Android tremendously. This is where the Android Tablet makers are horribly failing. Trying to go up against Apple with a much higher price point is not going to work. They got marketshare in the phone space because of aggressive pricing, they need to do the same with tablets
Yea, that's absolutely true. The prices do need to come down quite a bit. If they're trying to price them high to show how "valuable" they are....UGH. That will absolutely fail. We need honeycomb tablets all up and down the spectrum. A Xoom at the high end, and something else (slightly better than a rooted Nook Color, I think ) at the low end. You know, a 16gb wifi only tablet for 300 bucks. Who WOULDN'T jump on something like that? Even drop the screen res to match the iPad. That could be extremely compelling.
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Old March 14th, 2011, 01:56 PM   #92 (permalink)
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It will and then it will take over the tablet market just like it has the phone market.
Exactly. We're all discussing this situation as though Xoom is the ONLY tablet that's going to be released in the next year. That's simply not the case. Android gives us choice, remember?
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Old March 14th, 2011, 02:15 PM   #93 (permalink)
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I'm considering picking one of these up. How difficult/involved is it to get Honeycomb on it?

(I know this is off topic, so it you can direct me or PM me that's great).
Putting Honeycomb on is quite easy (takes about 5 minutes):

[HOW-TO] Download/Install Honeycomb to Nook Color (SD card) - Android Forums

Getting Marketplace and Google Apps installed is another. You need to know how to use ADB and make sure you have the USB drivers so ADB recognizes your Nook (via PC's USB). The above link also shows you how to install Marketplace and Google Apps

[DRIVER PACK] Easy USB ADB Installer for Windows (32/64 bit) - xda-developers

Here is how you install ADB:

What Is ADB And How To Install It With Android SDK

Here is Nook Devs site (very helpful)

nookDevs

This is how to Dual Boot:

[Project] Dual-Boot between NF SDcard and Stock No-Rooting - xda-developers

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Old March 14th, 2011, 03:02 PM   #94 (permalink)
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Exactly. We're all discussing this situation as though Xoom is the ONLY tablet that's going to be released in the next year. That's simply not the case. Android gives us choice, remember?
True, but there's no escaping that the iPad owns this market today and the iPad 2 is only looking to continue that domination until Android's game is on-deck.

Motorola put it out there and there was a great chuckling in the land over the "really, it's a big phone" slam on the iPad, I think we all remember it -

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=quI2I8wLPdc

As Apple has only one device, and it's top-end, and as i think many of us would agree that the Xoom is maybe the top-end device (depends on POV) for Android, I think it makes lots of sense to compare the Xoom to the iPad, for fun, and to help people decide.

Just my personal opinions tho.
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Old March 14th, 2011, 03:15 PM   #95 (permalink)
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True, but there's no escaping that the iPad owns this market today and the iPad 2 is only looking to continue that domination until Android's game is on-deck.

Motorola put it out there and there was a great chuckling in the land over the "really, it's a big phone" slam on the iPad, I think we all remember it -

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=quI2I8wLPdc

As Apple has only one device, and it's top-end, and as i think many of us would agree that the Xoom is maybe the top-end device (depends on POV) for Android, I think it makes lots of sense to compare the Xoom to the iPad, for fun, and to help people decide.

Just my personal opinions tho.
No question that the comparison is going to be made. It has already. And in many ways the iPad2 does come out on top. But, I also think some perspective is in order. The iPad culture has had a year lead on Android devices. That means Android has to play catch up. And I think 6 months from now things will start to change (good or bad) for the Android tablets. If they continue to be high priced devices with missing features, then it's not going to compete well. If, however, we see the wifi only Xoom out there, the missing features delivered in a timely fashion, and more and more devs starting to support Honeycomb, then it has a real chance to compete. Apple is top dog right now and will continue to be that way until some real innovation hits the Android tablets and they can bring that at a realistic price point. The more choice the consumer has, the better off they are. Apple gives you the same tablet in a few flavors and one OS experience. I can't wait to see how this plays out.
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Old March 14th, 2011, 03:18 PM   #96 (permalink)
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Agreed - see also - Verizon Waving $35 Activation Fee on Android Tablets | Android Phone Fans

Staples to Carry Honeycomb Tablet Offerings from Motorola, Samsung, Dell, HTC & Toshiba | Android Phone Fans

Maybe we'll see the price changes sooner...
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Old March 14th, 2011, 03:23 PM   #97 (permalink)
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I hadn't seen that about the activation fee. Very nice! I mean, it's a small thing, yes, but, it still is a good thing. Other mfg's better be watching the Xoom launch and the iPad2 launch and learning a few lessons. Just saying your product is better and charging a premium for it isn't going to cut it. Not when the iPad is such an established player. Prices need to come down, OS needs to get finished, and innovative, "cool" apps need to get built and released. Then you can compete with the current leader.
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Old March 14th, 2011, 03:34 PM   #98 (permalink)
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I know Frenzy wrote a nice write up on his view of the ipad2 and xoom but this is what bothers me. Apple add 3 features.
1 thinner
2 cameras
3 dual core processor
To me this is not much,just another means to milk the consumers of their money. I don't see how this make it superior.(imo)
 
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Old March 14th, 2011, 03:43 PM   #99 (permalink)
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I know Frenzy wrote a nice write up on his view of the ipad2 and xoom but this is what bothers me. Apple add 3 features.
1 thinner
2 cameras
3 dual core processor
To me this is not much,just another means to milk the consumers of their money. I don't see how this make it superior.(imo)
They kept the same price points while adding that stuff - if I wanted to play Devil's Avocado, I'd say adjusted for inflation, the iPad 2 is actually a little less expensive.

As for superior - well, those are improvements, superior is sometimes subjective.
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Old March 14th, 2011, 03:46 PM   #100 (permalink)
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You're right, those features aren't "revolutionary". They're a mild bump up for the current champion. You need to remember that for 2010 Apple had what, 90% of the tablet market cornered? And they're predicted to hold 80% of that for 2011. (Forgive me if the numbers are off, I'm honestly pulling those from recent memory). In any case, when you're already on top, a minor bump up like the iPad2 is probably going to keep you there. Contrast that with the new competitor trying to break into the market. They need to go above and beyond to bring the "wow" factor which is going to be tough to do since Apple really set the expectations of what a tablet is and does. To break out of that mindset, the Android tablets are going to have to invent new uses for a tablet that the iPads don't bring to the table. That's innovation. And can't be understated. It's very necessary here. It can't just copy what the iPad already does cause it does it well. You have to bring something new to the game. Notifications and real multitasking are good. We need more, though.
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