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Old June 29th, 2012, 01:44 PM   #1 (permalink)
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Default USB storage does NOT work: "Natively" (File transfer is possible when rooted)

As I expected,

Per Anandtech:

"Update 2: I've asked for further clarification about what USB-OTG functionality is supported. Using a mouse and keyboard will be supported, and I saw Google using an ethernet to USB adapter over USB-OTG as well. Unfortunately I found out that mounting USB storage will not be supported natively. In addition MHL is not supported."



My advice for folks that want to save money is to hold OFF on buying this, since there will probably be a zillion of these on eBay in the next few months. JMO. Media non-clouders or people not happy with using it will dump this device after a short period of use. The 8GB is pure nuts. Added: Perhaps 75% will love the device, but that 25% balance probably has a lot of eBay bidness with the 8GB model in particular.

The Nexus 7 is Cloud and Proud, like it or not.


Added: My guess is the rooters will see support like the Gnex, which means 32gb or smaller should work some time down the road. IF you root.

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Old June 29th, 2012, 01:54 PM   #2 (permalink)
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My advice for folks that want to save money is to hold OFF on buying this, since there will probably be a zillion of these on eBay in the next few months. JMO.

Whilst I'm totally with you, as per the other thread, regarding sd card slots and local storage ftw, I dunno about people selling them in the next few months dissatisfied. I don't think the masses are that bothered about masses of local storage. Weren't the most popular iPads from previous generations (dunno about current) the 16gb models? Admittedly, that may be price related, but almost every non-techy person I know with an iPad has a 16gb wifi and are very happy with it.

Myself? Of course, I bought the 64gb iPad 1&3, heh, but I think I'm a non-typical user like yourself.
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Old June 29th, 2012, 02:03 PM   #3 (permalink)
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I am mainly ranting since anti cloud and would have bought this if full non hack need host support.

I am not as much anti cloud as I am against anti choice. If Google had their way, ALL Android devices would be like this.
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Old June 29th, 2012, 03:07 PM   #4 (permalink)
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I am mainly ranting since anti cloud and would have bought this if full non hack need host support.

I am not as much anti cloud as I am against anti choice. If Google had their way, ALL Android devices would be like this.
Seems pretty premature to claim that you need a "hack" to be able to use USB OTG storage. Who knows, maybe a simple app is all that is needed without root.

Also, the Title should be "General USB Storage does NOT work without 3rd party software" . It's actually pretty clear that it WILL be supported in the future, with root or without it.

Also, if Google wanted to have their way regarding expandable storage, they could just remove it from the kernel, or create a spinoff that is closed source. Irregardless of what perhaps a few of the developers on the Android team would want, Google is choosing to not have their way, and is giving user the choice of buying hardware that has the features they want. It may not be for $200-250, but you do have the option to buy it, unlike other vendors.
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Old June 29th, 2012, 03:12 PM   #5 (permalink)
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Meh. Doesnt bother me if i have to root and hack to use USB for storage. 16Gb is plenty of storage for me anyway until i travel. By then root should have already been accomplished as well as the hack to make this work. I mainly use my nook for reading, internet, and simple games to pass the time in the car or airport anyway. My Rezound has become soul source and i'd rather listen to music than watch tv or movies.
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Old June 29th, 2012, 03:19 PM   #6 (permalink)
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Considering most people do not root, it does not work and if only 3.3 volt, same restrictions as the Gnex even if rooted and modded.

I might compromise though and add an "apparently"......

Wish the Phandroid app had advanced editing.
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Old June 29th, 2012, 03:25 PM   #7 (permalink)
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Considering most people do not root, it does not work and if only 3.3 volt, same restrictions as the Gnex even if rooted and modded.

I might compromise though and add an "apparently"......
Considering that a significant portion of NEXUS users do root, I fail to see your point. While the general population may not root, Nexus devices are oftentimes sought out by users specifically to root. More importantly, "most people" have no desire to use USB OTG. If a poll was taken, I would bet money that over 2/3 of people who have interest in USB OTG (let alone actual users) are comfortable with rooting their device.

I simply don't want people to read your title, and leave the forum without reading and discovering the full story. By appending "naitively" to the end of your title, confusion would be avoided and encourage people to research more.
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Old June 29th, 2012, 03:28 PM   #8 (permalink)
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I think you have made it pretty clear to all of us that you don't want this device
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Old June 29th, 2012, 03:54 PM   #9 (permalink)
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Considering that a significant portion of NEXUS users do root, I fail to see your point. While the general population may not root, Nexus devices are oftentimes sought out by users specifically to root. More importantly, "most people" have no desire to use USB OTG. If a poll was taken, I would bet money that over 2/3 of people who have interest in USB OTG (let alone actual users) are comfortable with rooting their device.

I simply don't want people to read your title, and leave the forum without reading and discovering the full story. By appending "naitively" to the end of your title, confusion would be avoided and encourage people to research more.

Instead of natively can I put nakedly??


There, I hope you are happy caveman! I REALLY wanted to put nakedly though- real word?
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Old June 29th, 2012, 04:13 PM   #10 (permalink)
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so much talk about this and so little care
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Old June 29th, 2012, 04:22 PM   #11 (permalink)
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I care, since Google took a sweet ASUS tablet and gimped it. This could have been my TF300's mini me.
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Old June 29th, 2012, 04:32 PM   #12 (permalink)
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oh well...run along now
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Old June 29th, 2012, 04:38 PM   #13 (permalink)
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I will, nakedly.
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Old June 29th, 2012, 04:40 PM   #14 (permalink)
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I will, nakedly.
How do you dislike... where the hell is that button...
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Old June 29th, 2012, 05:00 PM   #15 (permalink)
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And with that mental image, lets please get back on topic

Personally, I'm still hoping that the socket can provide enough power, so that custom ROMs can enable it as a feature. Hopefully we'll get some confirmation on that soon.
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Old June 29th, 2012, 05:05 PM   #16 (permalink)
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And with that mental image, lets please get back on topic

Personally, I'm still hoping that the socket can provide enough power, so that custom ROMs can enable it as a feature. Hopefully we'll get some confirmation on that soon.
I have a hard time believing that Google would make a custom 3V USB to Ethernet adapter as opposed to just using a standard adapter. I'm sure there's a 5V line in the phone that has enough extra juice to be used on that line, and I'd assume most gamepads like the X360 one would requite 5V, but who knows.

I bet it will work. If not, having a powered hub isn't a dealbreaker, although it is definitely a bummer.
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Old June 29th, 2012, 05:14 PM   #17 (permalink)
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If not, having a powered hub isn't a dealbreaker, although it is definitely a bummer.
Yeah. In that case, you'd have a few different options to play with. You could have hubs/drives that plugs into the mains, but then you're losing any sense of portability. There are also hubs/drives with their own rechargable battery, although I expect they're pricey.
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Old June 29th, 2012, 05:38 PM   #18 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by c4v3man View Post
I have a hard time believing that Google would make a custom 3V USB to Ethernet adapter as opposed to just using a standard adapter. I'm sure there's a 5V line in the phone that has enough extra juice to be used on that line, and I'd assume most gamepads like the X360 one would requite 5V, but who knows.

I bet it will work. If not, having a powered hub isn't a dealbreaker, although it is definitely a bummer.

Good point about Ethernet.
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Old June 30th, 2012, 09:14 PM   #19 (permalink)
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A guy with a rooted I/O device over on XDA has confirmed in this thread and this thread that he has mounted a portable hardrive sucessfully. Transfering files to and from the device does work, although he hasn't been able to open media/files straight off of the external drive so far. He's also had problems with certain file systems too.

Still, at least those are issues that can probably be dealt with
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Old July 2nd, 2012, 08:17 AM   #20 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Xyro View Post
A guy with a rooted I/O device over on XDA has confirmed in this thread and this thread that he has mounted a portable hardrive sucessfully. Transfering files to and from the device does work, although he hasn't been able to open media/files straight off of the external drive so far. He's also had problems with certain file systems too.

Still, at least those are issues that can probably be dealt with
Yes, I saw those threads and just ordered the 16 gb!
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Old July 2nd, 2012, 11:20 AM   #21 (permalink)
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It is progress, but the point of the thread was for external space to play media from. People will now read this and assume you can do that now. It could be a driver issue and done on purpose as part of the OS package.

Just sayin'. May be harder to mod than some are thinking.
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Old July 2nd, 2012, 11:54 AM   #22 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rushmore View Post
It is progress, but the point of the thread was for external space to play media from. People will now read this and assume you can do that now. It could be a driver issue and done on purpose as part of the OS package.

Just sayin'. May be harder to mod than some are thinking.

Really? I thought my explanation made it clear what currently works and what does not.

As for whether or not it can be improved, well, yep that's just my speculation (as a non-developer).
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Old July 2nd, 2012, 12:00 PM   #23 (permalink)
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Agreed. You know, if Google simply allowed a native function like this to work 100% in the first place, this would be so simple
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Old July 3rd, 2012, 06:02 AM   #24 (permalink)
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So that guy who says that file transfer worked has done further testing. The results are a little odd...

He has a microUSB connecting sdcard reader, which he is attempting to open video, music and pdfs from. When he transferred the files from his PC to the sdcard, as normal, they wouldn't open, as we know.

However, if he loads the files onto the tablet (via Airdroid or connecting it to his PC), then moves them to the sdcard from there, they open, apparently. Weird.
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Old July 3rd, 2012, 07:19 AM   #25 (permalink)
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There can be at least two reasons for this:

1. Power threshold is not quite there to both open and flow data from the external source and play back. To see if this is the issue, try to play the source with a powered hub.

2. Google went out of their way to prevent this, so no resources in the firmware to support any playback except from the internal paths/mnts.

The lack of progress so far at least suggests this is not just a case of something turned off and may require effort beyond what most people will bother with. This would further support this was done on purpose.

Got to admire Google's focus: You WILL use the cloud!! Though this device would sell even more units with external support, it will still choke probably EVERY Android device within $50 to either drop price or die. The competition will get the external storage users, but that will be the minority of us consumers.

Heck, it could choke higher price tablets too, and even nip at the iPad. I wonder if this will drag Apple into the 7" market now?
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Old July 3rd, 2012, 07:43 AM   #26 (permalink)
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If I understood his post correctly, he is actually playing/opening the fies from the external drive in the second test. The only variable is whether the files went from PC -> sdcard or Tablet -> sdcard.

I'd like him to clarify if he's copying or moving the file from the tablet to the sdcard. If he is moving it, which is what I interpreted his explanation as, you wouldn't expect it to perform any differently to files loaded onto the sdcard via a PC.
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Old July 3rd, 2012, 08:47 AM   #27 (permalink)
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It looks like that regardless of method, he can not get files to work unless from the internal storage. Seems this may be by design since if supported in the OS, but not easier to enable.
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Old July 3rd, 2012, 10:50 AM   #28 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rushmore View Post
It looks like that regardless of method, he can not get files to work unless from the internal storage.
Am I missing something?

Quote:
2nd testing:

I copied the files from the PC to the tablet & will then transfer the files from the tablet to FAT32, EXT3 & EXT4 sdcards

results from 2nd testing:

FAT32: Unable to play music, video files & read PDF
EXT3: able to play the music, video files & read PDF
EXT4: able to play the music, video files & read PDF

3rd testing:

I used AirDroid to copy files from Linux to the tablet & will then transfer the files from the tablet to FAT32, EXT3 & EXT4 sdcards.

results from 3rd testing:

FAT32: Did not test
EXT3: able to play the music, video files & read PDF
EXT4: able to play the music, video files & read PDF
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Old July 3rd, 2012, 01:06 PM   #29 (permalink)
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I can not follow the pathology here of his tests or if played back without a powered hub. The part "& will then transfer from the tablet to ..... sdcards".

That does not seem to say he has, but he will do it. To his credit, he admits his notes are not the best, since doing on the fly.

All is needed: storage type, size, format, powered or not, media, success or failure

The BIG positive is he is making a great effort.
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Old July 3rd, 2012, 01:11 PM   #30 (permalink)
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Yeah, he's edited a fair few times over the last day or two, which hasn't added to the clarity.

I think I'll be more satisfied when the community at large can test it out and report back, but it looks hopeful at least.
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Old July 4th, 2012, 03:44 PM   #31 (permalink)
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Hi guys - I understand that the Nexus 7 is designed so you cant mount an SD card reader or USB storage to it to copy files over, but would it be possible to mount the Nexus 7 to a Galaxy S3 and then copy files from S3 to N7 < in this setup the S3 is the host and the N7 is the exernal device. I could then fill the S3's SD storage and copy to the N7 as required. Is this likely to be possible without rooting anything??
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Old July 4th, 2012, 04:42 PM   #32 (permalink)
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Quote:
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Hi guys - I understand that the Nexus 7 is designed so you cant mount an SD card reader or USB storage to it to copy files over, but would it be possible to mount the Nexus 7 to a Galaxy S3 and then copy files from S3 to N7 < in this setup the S3 is the host and the N7 is the exernal device. I could then fill the S3's SD storage and copy to the N7 as required. Is this likely to be possible without rooting anything??
Now that is a very interesting thought!
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Old July 4th, 2012, 04:43 PM   #33 (permalink)
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Quote:
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Hi guys - I understand that the Nexus 7 is designed so you cant mount an SD card reader or USB storage to it to copy files over, but would it be possible to mount the Nexus 7 to a Galaxy S3 and then copy files from S3 to N7 < in this setup the S3 is the host and the N7 is the exernal device. I could then fill the S3's SD storage and copy to the N7 as required. Is this likely to be possible without rooting anything??
No, unfortuantely not. The N7 doesn't have an sdcard, so it cannot be mounted. When you plug it into the PC you use something called MTP to transfer files, so 'mounting' to the PC still works, but I doubt that the S3 can communicate via MTP to the N7 like that.
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Old July 4th, 2012, 06:29 PM   #34 (permalink)
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Hi guys - I understand that the Nexus 7 is designed so you cant mount an SD card reader or USB storage to it to copy files over, but would it be possible to mount the Nexus 7 to a Galaxy S3 and then copy files from S3 to N7 < in this setup the S3 is the host and the N7 is the exernal device. I could then fill the S3's SD storage and copy to the N7 as required. Is this likely to be possible without rooting anything??
No, but considering that both support NFC and WiFi Direct, it wouldn't surprise me if you'll be able to transfer from one to the other wirelessly either natively or with an app...
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Old July 5th, 2012, 07:30 AM   #35 (permalink)
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No, unfortuantely not. The N7 doesn't have an sdcard, so it cannot be mounted. When you plug it into the PC you use something called MTP to transfer files, so 'mounting' to the PC still works, but I doubt that the S3 can communicate via MTP to the N7 like that.
hmmm, that's a pity as I thought that like my current HTC Android phone I could connect the Nexus 7 and then select "Mount As Disk Drive"
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Old July 5th, 2012, 07:34 AM   #36 (permalink)
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No, but considering that both support NFC and WiFi Direct, it wouldn't surprise me if you'll be able to transfer from one to the other wirelessly either natively or with an app...
Thanks - that sounds promising, I will look into these two options
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Old July 5th, 2012, 07:40 AM   #37 (permalink)
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hmmm, that's a pity as I thought that like my current HTC Android phone I could connect the Nexus 7 and then select "Mount As Disk Drive"
Honestly, I kind of like it the other way. I've got both. I've got the phone that you have to select "mount as disk drive" and I've got a tablet that automatically mounts. I find the latter far more convenient. On the very rare occasion when I have to plug directly into my computer, I find it to be something of a pain to select that option on my phone while my tablet just automatically recognizes what I'm wanting to do and mounts the drive.
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Old July 5th, 2012, 08:15 AM   #38 (permalink)
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Does not look like progress has advanced (unless my reading skills are even worse). Looks like we will need more devices out there for "root masters". Still, it seems that unless Google has a change of heart (yeah right), the ability to get the N7 to be full host friendly will be for the more advanced rooters. Assuming full host is possible.

The other issue could be that Google did not bother since the hardware may not support it. Bah, conjecture until more people get the device and figure what will work.
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Old July 5th, 2012, 10:51 AM   #39 (permalink)
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Update from the XDA thread points to USB drive mounting without root by way of a an app.

https://plus.google.com/u/0/116035013937554489222/posts/KiqFpDpDWto
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Old July 5th, 2012, 11:25 AM   #40 (permalink)
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Update from the XDA thread points to USB drive mounting without root by way of a an app.

https://plus.google.com/u/0/116035013937554489222/posts/KiqFpDpDWto
Although it's only a theory at this point.
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Old July 5th, 2012, 02:21 PM   #41 (permalink)
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Honestly, I kind of like it the other way. I've got both. I've got the phone that you have to select "mount as disk drive" and I've got a tablet that automatically mounts. I find the latter far more convenient. On the very rare occasion when I have to plug directly into my computer, I find it to be something of a pain to select that option on my phone while my tablet just automatically recognizes what I'm wanting to do and mounts the drive.
It can be set as default but half the time I just want to charge and still use apps and half the time I want disk drive mounted
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Old July 5th, 2012, 04:16 PM   #42 (permalink)
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It can be set as default but half the time I just want to charge and still use apps and half the time I want disk drive mounted
But with the new system (MTP) you won't lose access to files/apps on your tablet, even whilst the N7 is connected to the PC.
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Old July 5th, 2012, 04:36 PM   #43 (permalink)
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It can be set as default but half the time I just want to charge and still use apps and half the time I want disk drive mounted






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But with the new system (MTP) you won't lose access to files/apps on your tablet, even whilst the N7 is connected to the PC.
I fired through the N7 user guide today(I know, ocd and boredom) and it mentioned using a charger other than the on supplied would result in slow charging which leads me to believe that it will be charging at 1.5+ amps so Turing to charge via usb and using apps will probably not work. Usb is limited to .5 amps
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Old July 5th, 2012, 05:11 PM   #44 (permalink)
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I fired through the N7 user guide today(I know, ocd and boredom) and it mentioned using a charger other than the on supplied would result in slow charging which leads me to believe that it will be charging at 1.5+ amps so Turing to charge via usb and using apps will probably not work. Usb is limited to .5 amps
Yeah, I beleive that standard USB chargers will provide 1 amp from a socket but a PC USB socket only produces 0.5 amps, so that makes sense.

But, would that matter? It's going to charge much slower off a PC, but so long as the device has enough charge to turn on, you should be able to use the device whilst it's plugged into the PC.
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Old July 5th, 2012, 05:42 PM   #45 (permalink)
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My wife's KF is a 1.8amp charger where the GNex is 1 amp. I mention the Kindle Fire as screen size and battery are similar, so I am guessing the Nexus 7 will be similar. So I would imagine USB (at .5) would be a net loss of battery if you are using it while plugged into USB.
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Old July 5th, 2012, 05:46 PM   #46 (permalink)
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My wife's KF is a 1.8amp charger where the GNex is 1 amp. I mention the Kindle Fire as screen size and battery are similar, so I am guessing the Nexus 7 will be similar. So I would imagine USB (at .5) would be a net loss of battery if you are using it while plugged into USB.
I guess that depends on whether they increased the amps of the charger because they could, for faster recarhing, or because it was necessary due to the device consuming more power. I don't know which is the case.
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Old July 5th, 2012, 05:58 PM   #47 (permalink)
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I guess that depends on whether they increased the amps of the charger because they could, for faster recarhing, or because it was necessary due to the device consuming more power. I don't know which is the case.
I just checked the charger specs in the play store. 5v 2A output so it will struggle trying to charge on usb under load which isn't surprising as my gnex does too
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Old July 5th, 2012, 07:38 PM   #48 (permalink)
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This is without a doubt a ploy to get you to store your cloud documents and media with Google's cloud services. With that said: it works. I will absolutely be using Drive for accessing my school documents and transferring photos and the like.
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Old July 5th, 2012, 11:52 PM   #49 (permalink)
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there is a usb mass storage app floating around XDA being used in ICS roms without working mass sotrage needs root thou but who cares? we have that allready?
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Old July 7th, 2012, 10:04 PM   #50 (permalink)
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One of the work-arounds I wanted to try was to find an alternative to the app that came with my Droid Bionic for connecting to home-based media called "ZumoCast".
ZumoCast - Stream your media. It's your personal cloud.

It works great on my phone, but isn't for other Android devices, so I can't use it on my current Iconia A500 tablet, nor will I be able to use it with my Nexus 7.

Presumably with a similar app and a good WiFi connection one wouldn't be restricted by this local external storage limitation as long as there was a machine to link to remotely.

-or am I seeing this wrong?
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