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Old July 22nd, 2010, 09:34 PM   #1 (permalink)
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other ask us if we've gone mad.
YouTube - No mosque at Ground Zero

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Old July 22nd, 2010, 11:34 PM   #2 (permalink)
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im surprised there are no replies to this yet
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Old July 23rd, 2010, 04:09 AM   #3 (permalink)
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im surprised there are no replies to this yet
Why? Most of us believe in the constitution.
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Old July 23rd, 2010, 09:13 AM   #4 (permalink)
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I stopped watching when the guy said the mosque was being built "a few yards" from ground zero. It is being built more than two blocks away.
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Old July 23rd, 2010, 09:17 AM   #5 (permalink)
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Laugh out loud. I applaud his enthusiasm. Not sure about the mosque, though.
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Old July 23rd, 2010, 11:39 AM   #6 (permalink)
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Why? Most of us believe in the constitution.
?
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Old July 23rd, 2010, 11:40 AM   #7 (permalink)
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I stopped watching when the guy said the mosque was being built "a few yards" from ground zero. It is being built more than two blocks away.
Ah, there is a vacant lot?
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Old July 23rd, 2010, 12:03 PM   #8 (permalink)
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Ah, there is a vacant lot?

41 park place ny - Google Maps


Here you can see where it is being built in relation to Ground Zero.
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Old July 23rd, 2010, 12:16 PM   #9 (permalink)
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Well, this reminds me of some nut who yelled at japanese tourists for visiting Pearl Harbor. Now if the people comissioning that mosque are fundamentalist nutjobs, I'm not too comfortable with the whole thing. If the folks building and using it are good citizens/visitors that have no hostile intentions, I am for it.
If the comissioners are decent people, it would be an even bigger FU to the folks who attacked the WTC. I like the irony of us being able to have a mosque there proving that we're able to rise above that stupid jihad nonsense they are hoping to have with us and have peaceful and constructive dealings with muslims in the very place they were hoping to end that.
In my area, mosques have been raided for supporting Cair and it's true that they were. There is an even larger number of muslims who denounce all of that and want to take part in what we have going here. That is what those jerks are attacking us for. The fact that some of their own people see that we can give them a better life and they are going for it.
They are scared. They know that one day, they won't be able to keep education from their people and they'll stand up and say "You know what? We can be muslims without killing people who don't agree with you." Those clerics' reign is over as information becomes exchanged more freely.
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Old July 23rd, 2010, 01:29 PM   #10 (permalink)
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Well, this reminds me of some nut who yelled at japanese tourists for visiting Pearl Harbor. Now if the people comissioning that mosque are fundamentalist nutjobs, I'm not too comfortable with the whole thing. If the folks building and using it are good citizens/visitors that have no hostile intentions, I am for it.
If the comissioners are decent people, it would be an even bigger FU to the folks who attacked the WTC. I like the irony of us being able to have a mosque there proving that we're able to rise above that stupid jihad nonsense they are hoping to have with us and have peaceful and constructive dealings with muslims in the very place they were hoping to end that.
In my area, mosques have been raided for supporting Cair and it's true that they were. There is an even larger number of muslims who denounce all of that and want to take part in what we have going here. That is what those jerks are attacking us for. The fact that some of their own people see that we can give them a better life and they are going for it.
They are scared. They know that one day, they won't be able to keep education from their people and they'll stand up and say "You know what? We can be muslims without killing people who don't agree with you." Those clerics' reign is over as information becomes exchanged more freely.
before i respond to you i want to make sure i am clear about my own intentions. i have no real opinion on this as i have not taken the time to research it, so i am not responding from my own thoughts, but clarifying a point of conversation.

the person in this video would say that you are decieved. and actually, it would apear that you missed the point. you are arguing "good muslims" vs. "bad muslims". he is stating that there are only "bad muslims". in fact, the supposition, as i understand it is that "good muslims" are only a public face designed specifically to lull non-muslims into a false confidence. now, you may think i am nit-picking your response, however, before we can have the "good muslim" vs "bad muslim" debate, everyone must be on the same page as to the distinction, otherwise, anything said on either side is meaningless.

so, the first thing to determine, and this is actually the toughest thing, is "is there such a thing as a good muslim" i say this is difficult because you have first break through a barrier of mistrust in order to even have any "evidence" accepted as anything other than an attempt at deception.

again, im not taking up either side, simply pointing out that there are two different conversations being had.
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Old July 23rd, 2010, 01:42 PM   #11 (permalink)
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I'm in favor of any reasonable sort of commercial construction that puts Americans back to work. If there is money to build mosques, synagogues, churches, or massage parlors in our downtown areas, business districts, or appropriate places in the 'burbs, then we should go for it. Same with highways, bridges, hospitals, airports, dams, canals, railways...what we need are good paying jobs for out-of-work Americans.
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Old July 23rd, 2010, 02:29 PM   #12 (permalink)
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I am a construction worker out of work for 8 months now, and would not hesitate to go build a mosque, if that was where the paying job was....
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Old July 24th, 2010, 08:34 AM   #13 (permalink)
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the person in this video would say that you are decieved. and actually, it would apear that you missed the point.
I purposefully ignored his comments about the deception as that hasn't been verified by anyone of real repute. I choose to ignore the commentary meant to stir everyone up in favor of the immediate issue. If it is being built by a group that plans it as another safehouse for Cair, it is my hope that the city acts accordingly. Barring all of the fear and speculation, what I said still stands.

If they are a bunch of infiltrators and people just want to build stuff because they need money, then hell stop whining about bankers, the RNC, CEOs and slavers who hire illegal immigrants. Just because someone else's blood money is distasteful to you, you are no better if you take it to the bank from a different source.
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Old August 4th, 2010, 03:54 PM   #14 (permalink)
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They do have the right to do it, thats for sure. But is it right to do it? I mean, honestly theres gonna be some violence. In my opinion, this is up to the people of NY and the families of the deceased.
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Old August 5th, 2010, 06:51 AM   #15 (permalink)
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They do have the right to do it, thats for sure. But is it right to do it? I mean, honestly theres gonna be some violence. In my opinion, this is up to the people of NY and the families of the deceased.
If so the violence had damn sure better not be perpetrated by non-terrorists and if so, I hope the city throws the book at them. This BS is never going to end if we keep acting like children.

If it is not right to do it, is it right for white people to own cotton plantations in the South? How about for Japanese people to own businesses in Pearl Harbor? Is it right for white people to live throughout many of the states where the tribes have had their lands taken? Seriously?
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Old August 5th, 2010, 01:47 PM   #16 (permalink)
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If so the violence had damn sure better not be perpetrated by non-terrorists and if so, I hope the city throws the book at them. This BS is never going to end if we keep acting like children.

If it is not right to do it, is it right for white people to own cotton plantations in the South? How about for Japanese people to own businesses in Pearl Harbor? Is it right for white people to live throughout many of the states where the tribes have had their lands taken? Seriously?

But the thing is that if they knew that this was gonna cause all this commotion, then why'd they just choose to build it close to ground zero. That is asking for something. That you cannot deny.
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Old August 5th, 2010, 01:53 PM   #17 (permalink)
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Yeah, it's asking for America to heal and show that we're above that.
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Old August 5th, 2010, 02:43 PM   #18 (permalink)
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Yeah, it's asking for America to heal and show that we're above that.
And were do you think the 100million dollars are coming from, certainly not from donations, At first, Imam Feisal Abdul Rauf insisted the funds would be raised entirely from the Muslim-American community, then he said it was mostly coming from outside of the US, from Saudi Arabia. Anyways, you still don't understand my point, this Is a slap to the face for all those who died on 9-11.

So If I open a Bacon/Pork shop right next to them, its ok? I mean, it is my right.
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Old August 5th, 2010, 04:00 PM   #19 (permalink)
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Who cares if you did? If your logo was a pig with a turban, that would be tacky, but whatever. You still didn't answer my question about the Japanese businesses in Pearl Harbor.

UPDATE: Actually, it is a slap in the face to them if we become a bunch of scared little weenies and fear people because of their religion.

I understand your point perfectly, I just think that there isn't enough hard evidence to justify your fears.
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Old August 5th, 2010, 04:41 PM   #20 (permalink)
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Who cares if you did? If your logo was a pig with a turban, that would be tacky, but whatever. You still didn't answer my question about the Japanese businesses in Pearl Harbor.

UPDATE: Actually, it is a slap in the face to them if we become a bunch of scared little weenies and fear people because of their religion.

I understand your point perfectly, I just think that there isnt enough hard evidence to justify your fears.
Fears? I don't think so. More like disrespect, when you build a thirteen story building 60' away from Ground Zero, and that building Is a mosque, which teaches the same religion that the terrorists praise, and the fact that it overlooks Ground Zero, its disrespect. And of all the places to build a mosque they chose the one that overlooks the WTC site, that's no coincidence. I'm pretty sure that the Saudi Arabians who are funding this are only funding it because it overlooks Ground Zero, its not a fact, because no one knows exactly where the 100million is coming from, but Its obvious. And about the Japanese businesses in Pearl Harbor. It's a business, It would be diffrent if it was some kamakazi place over looking the place where the Arizona sank. BTW, you should know the difference between a business and a church. And I'm pretty sure that there were no Japanese businesses In Pearl Harbor at the time of war.
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Old August 6th, 2010, 07:32 AM   #21 (permalink)
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1. Not everyone who practices that religon is a terrorist.

2. The difference between a business and a church is that one of them pays taxes. I could point out the similarities, but that would be an entirely different discussion.

The Germans keep the history of the holocaust alive as a lesson. Is it so far out of the realm of possibility that these shadow people you say are raining money on this project might see it as a lesson about what happens when religious extremism goes too far? Nah, other cultures couldn't possibly be that rational. They are all out to crap all over everything we do. I bet they will draw the shades when Freedom Tower is finished.
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Old August 6th, 2010, 01:16 PM   #22 (permalink)
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1. Not everyone who practices that religon is a terrorist.
You are right, they are not all terrorists, but if they had a sense of respect they wouldn't be building that Mosque over GZ. Even some of my Muslim friends (only have one actually) say its disrespectful.

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2. The difference between a business and a church is that one of them pays taxes. I could point out the similarities, but that would be an entirely different discussion.
I know that. I said that to, BTW, did you find any Japanese business in Pearl Harbor at the time that the US and Japan were at war?

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The Germans keep the history of the holocaust alive as a lesson. Is it so far out of the realm of possibility that these shadow people you say are raining money on this project might see it as a lesson about what happens when religious extremism goes too far? Nah, other cultures couldn't possibly be that rational. They are all out to crap all over everything we do. I bet they will draw the shades when Freedom Tower is finished.
No, I'm pretty sure in the minds of many who are swayed by the most radical interpretations of Islam it will be celebrated as a Muslim monument erected on the site of a great Muslim monument erected on the site of a great Muslim 'military' victory. And the funny thing is that Rauf's father was the long-time director of the Islamic Center of New York, which built the mosque on Third Avenue and 96th Street -- a project funded primarily by the governments of Kuwait, Saudi Arabia and other Muslim nations.
Now, the Saudis openly fund mosques abroad, spreading the radical Wahhabi strain of Islam, as a means of pacifying their own home-grown radicals.So it would be particularly troubling if Rauf's funding comes from abroad -- particularly from Riyadh.That's pretty rich, coming from an organization that in 2007 was named an unindicted co-conspirator in connection with a plot to support the terrorists of Hamas -- and that has seen several of its former officials and staffers convicted on terror-related charges.
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Old August 6th, 2010, 03:44 PM   #23 (permalink)
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BTW, did you find any Japanese business in Pearl Harbor at the time that the US and Japan were at war?
Nope, we were too busy rounding up everyone who looked remotely asian and putting them in detention camps in CA until the war was over. Should we be doing that now?

If they want to send that money to this country so that their mosque will have a nice view of the larger and more impressive facility that we're going to put there, it's fine by me. It is even better for those who have perished as that dominating monument will be right in front of them every day showing that they couldn't keep us down. If they want a front row seat to that, I'm good with it. I only wish it were between the mosque and mecca so that they would have to face it everytime they pray.
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Old August 6th, 2010, 04:30 PM   #24 (permalink)
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Nope, we were too busy rounding up everyone who looked remotely asian and putting them in detention camps in CA until the war was over. Should we be doing that now?

If they want to send that money to this country so that their mosque will have a nice view of the larger and more impressive facility that we're going to put there, it's fine by me. It is even better for those who have perished as that dominating monument will be right in front of them every day showing that they couldn't keep us down. If they want a front row seat to that, I'm good with it. I only wish it were between the mosque and mecca so that they would have to face it everytime they pray.
Well I hope Im wrong about them and your right. BTW, we didn't put all Japanese in detention camps, just the ones we suspected as a threat.
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Old August 6th, 2010, 05:24 PM   #25 (permalink)
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Well I hope Im wrong about them and your right. BTW, we didn't put all Japanese in detention camps, just the ones we suspected as a threat.
You mean, the 110,000 West Coast Japanese we imprisoned, a figure that represents all the Japanese living on the West Coast, were all suspected as a threat?

Well, that was b.s. then and it is now. Recall that we did not imprison the 150,000 Japanese living in Hawaii.
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Old August 6th, 2010, 05:43 PM   #26 (permalink)
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So If I open a Bacon/Pork shop right next to them, its ok? I mean, it is my right.
There is no way in hell that would be allowed.
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Old August 6th, 2010, 06:08 PM   #27 (permalink)
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Well I hope Im wrong about them and your right. BTW, we didn't put all Japanese in detention camps, just the ones we suspected as a threat.
And the ones we suspected were all of them.
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Old August 6th, 2010, 06:33 PM   #28 (permalink)
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And the ones we suspected were all of them.
I know Beardedman, that's why I put a smiley on the end, sarcasm (oops, virtual sarcasm to be exact).
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Old August 8th, 2010, 01:25 PM   #29 (permalink)
 
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It should be worth noting that you can't say for sure whether someone is "good" or "bad." We've mentioned that there are "good" Muslims in this country that "don't support extremists" but how do you know that? How do you know the Muslim you think is 'good" isn't funding them with portions of his own salary? How do you know the one that looks like he'll blow your bus up at any second didn't fight the extremist militia back in his motherland?

Judging anyone as being good or bad isn't so black-and-white. That's why I think the argument that "oh, the good Muslims are against the extremists" is silly. There can be a Muslim that supports extremist activities, yet is a well-respected physician or firefighter (saving lives) in your neighborhood.

If we take our personal feelings about Muslims, whether they be good or bad, we still see there being a problem involving Muslims and the mosquee they plan to build.

Islam isn't the only religion that feuds between itself, but it's certainly in the news a lot more so than the others. Religious buildings are vandalized plenty of times, regardless of the religion. And Muslims are a religion with some of the most "pride." If the Mosque were to be vandalized, do you think they will "forgive and forget" and just hope that the city will protect and prevent instances like that from happening again? Do you think the city will protect something so controversial?

If it was found that a feud between Muslims and those that are opposed to the building of the mosque was instigated by a white American, do you not see clerics overseas condemning them and calling for their heads? What if it was another Muslim? Different divisions of Islam attack each other constantly. Would you expect the city to take an unbiased action against a white American or punish the Muslim to standards "acceptable" by the cleric overseas?

This is not a "what-if" situation. I'm pretty sure this will happen. Someone will take action against this mosque if they don't like it. Muslim clerics are known to constantly complain that not enough measures are being taken to protect Islam. So if the mosque were to be bombed, regardless of the perp's nationality or religious beliefs, do you think the US, the city of NY, and even Americans as a whole, want to be in middle of this, mediating punishments?

If Muslims in this country are "good" and don't follow the teachings of extremists, why are we building a mosque for the "good" ones on a place where the "bad" ones destroyed a building and killed Americans just to show that the "good" aren't "bad?" It doesn't make sense to me.


I'm being serious with this, I think an Arabic restaurant would be a better symbol of "forgiveness" or whatever the mosque is to represent, than a mosque. "Arabic" doesn't sound right, but it isn't mediterranean food only, since Islam stretches even to India and Indonesia. So, Indian/Pakistani/Iranian/Arabic restaurant?

Here's one better: just treat Arabs like normal people and like any other criminal when they commit crimes. I think that's ultimately what every "good" Muslim wants.
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Old August 8th, 2010, 02:49 PM   #30 (permalink)
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if good muslims spent as much time, money, and energy teaching their children right and wrong through the paradigm of humanity as opposed to that of religion,as they are in trying to get this mosque built, than 9-11 MAY never have occurred and we wouldn't care where they put their mosques as was the case before that day.

i think a small amount of reciprocity is in order here with regard to the sensitivity of our fellow citizens who are disturbed by this. i believe the majority of our population has shown plenty of sensitivity toward muslims since the day that attack took place. I have a Turkish muslim neighbor right next door and have never harbored any ill will towards him. i would hope that an intelligent person could see WHY this bothers so many people, and therefore, just back it up a FEW MORE BLOCKS, considering the good will that would buy them. to continue to push for this in spite of the controversy is unnecessary and leads me to wonder about the motives of the would be mosque builders.

and if they persist,then we should just place a memorial with the names of the victims directly across the street. wouldn't that be constitutional as well? we don't really need to worry about whether that would be right, do we?
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Old August 8th, 2010, 03:25 PM   #31 (permalink)
 
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if good muslims spent as much time, money, and energy teaching their children right and wrong through the paradigm of humanity as opposed to that of religion,as they are in trying to get this mosque built, than 9-11 MAY never have occurred and we wouldn't care where they put their mosques as was the case before that day.

i think a small amount of reciprocity is in order here with regard to the sensitivity of our fellow citizens who are disturbed by this. i believe the majority of our population has shown plenty of sensitivity toward muslims since the day that attack took place. I have a Turkish muslim neighbor right next door and have never harbored any ill will towards him. i would hope that an intelligent person could see WHY this bothers so many people, and therefore, just back it up a FEW MORE BLOCKS, considering the good will that would buy them. to continue to push for this in spite of the controversy is unnecessary and leads me to wonder about the motives of the would be mosque builders.

and if they persist,then we should just place a memorial with the names of the victims directly across the street. wouldn't that be constitutional as well? we don't really need to worry about whether that would be right, do we?


Yeah, the fact that they can't build one somewhere else is a bit sketchy as far as questioning their motives, but at what point do we stop being so cynical?
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Old August 9th, 2010, 01:07 AM   #32 (permalink)
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if good muslims spent as much time, money, and energy teaching their children right and wrong through the paradigm of humanity as opposed to that of religion,as they are in trying to get this mosque built, than 9-11 MAY never have occurred and we wouldn't care where they put their mosques as was the case before that day.

i think a small amount of reciprocity is in order here with regard to the sensitivity of our fellow citizens who are disturbed by this. i believe the majority of our population has shown plenty of sensitivity toward muslims since the day that attack took place. I have a Turkish muslim neighbor right next door and have never harbored any ill will towards him. i would hope that an intelligent person could see WHY this bothers so many people, and therefore, just back it up a FEW MORE BLOCKS, considering the good will that would buy them. to continue to push for this in spite of the controversy is unnecessary and leads me to wonder about the motives of the would be mosque builders.

and if they persist,then we should just place a memorial with the names of the victims directly across the street. wouldn't that be constitutional as well? we don't really need to worry about whether that would be right, do we?
It's scary that people lack the common decency to understand why this plan is bad. It's equally scary that you had to come in here and help everyone else understand this.

If you think you have the right to do with your property whatever you wish, try putting a 60' ham radio antenna on it and see how long till local/county officials make you take it down. Get real you do own the property, but what you do on it is tightly regulated by the government...but why not in this case?
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Old August 9th, 2010, 09:55 AM   #33 (permalink)
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then we should just place a memorial with the names of the victims directly across the street.
I have no problem with this and think it's a good idea anyway.

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It's scary that people lack the common decency to understand why this plan is bad. It's equally scary that you had to come in here and help everyone else understand this.
Not feeling the need to shoot anything that intrudes my little corner of the world all the time does not mean that I lack common decency or need anyone to help me understand anything. I know why people are upset. Other people do stuff I don't like all the time, win the vote or deal with it. It also takes common decency not to be a territorial coward. Yeah, I said it. People who are freaking out about this look scared and it's embarassing. Dress it up as anger from outrage but it still smells like fear.

Stainlessray is right, I've been wasting my time distinguishing between good and bad muslims as I have with good and bad christians, europeans, and cat owners. I am still not going to make knee jerk decisions about these people just because of a cross section of jagoffs.

Crude is also right, no one except a bunch of rich assholes owns shit here, so I don't see why a bunch of fleas need to act like they own the dog they are on. Things will go like that until they bleed the dog dry.
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Old August 12th, 2010, 10:35 AM   #34 (permalink)
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Default Mosque at ground zero pt2

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Islamic supremacist Ground Zero mega-mosque organizers whine that Gutfeld's gay bar doesn't "consider the sensibilities of Muslims" - Jihad Watch

you were saying?
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Old August 12th, 2010, 05:51 PM   #35 (permalink)
 
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Haha, you have to give them the benefit of the at first and be neutral in your decision-making. Things like this, though, definitely need to be addressed and the Muslims responsible for such claims should be made to understand that their building is a privilege and on city-owned ground. They need to understand the rules of the city, otherwise there are still plenty of other places that could use a mosque.

Now that's the hard part.
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Old August 19th, 2010, 01:52 PM   #36 (permalink)
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They do have the right to do it, thats for sure. But is it right to do it? I mean, honestly theres gonna be some violence. In my opinion, this is up to the people of NY and the families of the deceased.
I agree, particularly the families of the ~60 Muslim men and women who died during the attacks.

Samad Afridi
Ashraf Ahmad
Shabbir Ahmad (45 years old; Windows on the World; leaves wife and 3 children)
Umar Ahmad
Azam Ahsan
Ahmed Ali
Tariq Amanullah (40 years old; Fiduciary Trust Co.; ICNA website team member; leaves wife and 2 children)
Touri Bolourchi (69 years old; United Airlines #175; a retired nurse from Tehran)
Salauddin Ahmad Chaudhury
Abdul K. Chowdhury (30 years old; Cantor Fitzgerald)
Mohammad S. Chowdhury (39 years old; Windows on the World; leaves wife and child born 2 days after the attack)
Jamal Legesse Desantis
Ramzi Attallah Douani (35 years old; Marsh & McLennan)
SaleemUllah Farooqi
Syed Fatha (54 years old; Pitney Bowes)
Osman Gani
Mohammad Hamdani (50 years old)
Salman Hamdani (NYPD Cadet)
Aisha Harris (21 years old; General Telecom)
Shakila Hoque (Marsh & McLennan)
Nabid Hossain
Shahzad Hussain
Talat Hussain
Mohammad Shah Jahan (Marsh & McLennan)
Yasmeen Jamal
Mohammed Jawarta (MAS security)
Arslan Khan Khakwani
Asim Khan
Ataullah Khan
Ayub Khan
Qasim Ali Khan
Sarah Khan (32 years old; Cantor Fitzgerald)
Taimour Khan (29 years old; Karr Futures)
Yasmeen Khan
Zahida Khan
Badruddin Lakhani
Omar Malick
Nurul Hoque Miah (36 years old)
Mubarak Mohammad (23 years old)
Boyie Mohammed (Carr Futures)
Raza Mujtaba
Omar Namoos
Mujeb Qazi
Tarranum Rahim
Ehtesham U. Raja (28 years old)
Ameenia Rasool (33 years old)
Naveed Rehman
Yusuf Saad
Rahma Salie & unborn child (28 years old; American Airlines #11; wife of Michael Theodoridis; 7 months pregnant)
Shoman Samad
Asad Samir
Khalid Shahid (25 years old; Cantor Fitzgerald; engaged to be married in November)
Mohammed Shajahan (44 years old; Marsh & McLennan)
Naseema Simjee (Franklin Resources Inc.'s Fiduciary Trust)
Jamil Swaati
Sanober Syed
Robert Elias Talhami (40 years old; Cantor Fitzgerald)
Michael Theodoridis (32 years old; American Airlines #11; husband of Rahma Salie)
W. Wahid
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Old August 19th, 2010, 02:01 PM   #37 (permalink)
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I agree, particularly the families of the ~60 Muslim men and women who died during the attacks.

Samad Afridi
Ashraf Ahmad
Shabbir Ahmad (45 years old; Windows on the World; leaves wife and 3 children)
Umar Ahmad
Azam Ahsan
Ahmed Ali
Tariq Amanullah (40 years old; Fiduciary Trust Co.; ICNA website team member; leaves wife and 2 children)
Touri Bolourchi (69 years old; United Airlines #175; a retired nurse from Tehran)
Salauddin Ahmad Chaudhury
Abdul K. Chowdhury (30 years old; Cantor Fitzgerald)
Mohammad S. Chowdhury (39 years old; Windows on the World; leaves wife and child born 2 days after the attack)
Jamal Legesse Desantis
Ramzi Attallah Douani (35 years old; Marsh & McLennan)
SaleemUllah Farooqi
Syed Fatha (54 years old; Pitney Bowes)
Osman Gani
Mohammad Hamdani (50 years old)
Salman Hamdani (NYPD Cadet)
Aisha Harris (21 years old; General Telecom)
Shakila Hoque (Marsh & McLennan)
Nabid Hossain
Shahzad Hussain
Talat Hussain
Mohammad Shah Jahan (Marsh & McLennan)
Yasmeen Jamal
Mohammed Jawarta (MAS security)
Arslan Khan Khakwani
Asim Khan
Ataullah Khan
Ayub Khan
Qasim Ali Khan
Sarah Khan (32 years old; Cantor Fitzgerald)
Taimour Khan (29 years old; Karr Futures)
Yasmeen Khan
Zahida Khan
Badruddin Lakhani
Omar Malick
Nurul Hoque Miah (36 years old)
Mubarak Mohammad (23 years old)
Boyie Mohammed (Carr Futures)
Raza Mujtaba
Omar Namoos
Mujeb Qazi
Tarranum Rahim
Ehtesham U. Raja (28 years old)
Ameenia Rasool (33 years old)
Naveed Rehman
Yusuf Saad
Rahma Salie & unborn child (28 years old; American Airlines #11; wife of Michael Theodoridis; 7 months pregnant)
Shoman Samad
Asad Samir
Khalid Shahid (25 years old; Cantor Fitzgerald; engaged to be married in November)
Mohammed Shajahan (44 years old; Marsh & McLennan)
Naseema Simjee (Franklin Resources Inc.'s Fiduciary Trust)
Jamil Swaati
Sanober Syed
Robert Elias Talhami (40 years old; Cantor Fitzgerald)
Michael Theodoridis (32 years old; American Airlines #11; husband of Rahma Salie)
W. Wahid
And your right. I agree, let them choose, but remember, this Is a democracy, the majority rules.
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Old August 19th, 2010, 02:11 PM   #38 (permalink)
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And your right. I agree, let them choose, but remember, this Is a democracy, the majority rules.
Majority rules what exactly? A peoples' right to practice their religion?

Actually the constitution rules that, not the majority. hth.

Religious freedom is one of the bedrock ideals that our nation was founded on. Don't dress up intolerance as "majority rules" and expect rational people to buy into it.
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Old August 19th, 2010, 02:34 PM   #39 (permalink)
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Majority rules what exactly? A peoples' right to practice their religion?

Actually the constitution rules that, not the majority. hth.

Religious freedom is one of the bedrock ideals that our nation was founded on. Don't dress up intolerance as "majority rules" and expect rational people to buy into it.
While Congress can make no law respecting an establishment of religion, since the USA is a nation under God, Congress can make law that denies arbitrary rights.In the Western world, Zoroastrianism, Judaism, Christianity, and Islam have scriptures:: Avesta (Zoroastrianism), Old Testament (Judaism), New Testament (Christianity), and Qur’an (Islam). Avesta was prepared by the Royal Scribes of King Vishtaspa of Iran after Zoroaster told the King what God (Ahura Masza) told him face to face. Jews say that the words in the Old Testament are inspired by God through the Holy Spirit. Christians say that God appeared in our world as the Son of God, who was Jesus Christ. And Muslims say that the Qur’an is written in God’s language and are messages that Muhammad received from the angel Gabriel.

Panentheism says that a plurality of words found in each of these four scriptures are not from God because only one word exists in a monotheistic God.

The gap that separates God and Creatures became clear in the 15th century when Nicholas of Cusa showed that a monotheistic God is incomprehensive and thus cannot be known with the languages that have awakened our minds. In Part IIc of 'The First Scientific Proof of God', I discuss the communication problem between God and man. There, I say that that only information can be exchanged between God and Creatures.

The language barrier between God and the Creatures prevents us from communicating with God and prevents us from knowing God perfectly. However, we can know God's attributes because, when contracted, they form our world. The existence of this barrier is thus ‘good news’ because it tells us that that God is 'one and infinite' and can give us an everlasting life.
So, my messages to all religions are as follows: "Scriptures do not express God’s thoughts and acts. Scriptures can only express the thoughts and acts of the Creatures."

God thus gave humans a unique ability --- to create and use symbols. With symbols, we can think and talk discursively, communicate with each other, find relative truths about God’s creations, and use these relative truths to find unchanging or absolute truths about our world. With symbols, we conceive the Creatures around us. As the symbols become more precise, our conceptions of the realities in the world become more accurate. With relative and absolute truths, we continue to improve our consciousness. With symbols, we communicate with each other, build new knowledge, build new sciences, and build new technologies. This unique ability from God requires that we do have responsibilities to God.

Let me now discuss the early togetherness of Judaism and Islams. Nicholas’ book on 'The Peace of Faith' was a study for Pius II on the unification of different religions. It was written in two months after the Turks conquered Constantinople in 1453. Pius II concluded the Muslims would not stop their plundering. The Peace of Faith recommends ways to unify religions and eliminates conversions and missions. In this study Nicholas found two facts: (1) that the name of God in the different language is the same or has very similar meanings and (2) that differences between religions exist only because of different rites. So, religions could be unifies simply by developing common rites.

Nicholas visited Constantinople in 1437 while he was a member of the Council of Basel. During this visit, he examined the Qur'an and assisted thirteen Muslims who wanted to travel to Rome for instruction on the Christian faith. After the Turks sacked Constantinople, Nicholas wrote Sifting of the Qur’an. It was dedicated to Pius II. In this book Nicholas says that Muhammad prepared the Qur’an so that he can teach his highly ignorant followers in Mecca about Jesus Christ. Since sexual relations dominated the lives of his ignorant followers, Muhammad used sexual symbols (e.g., white virgins) to describe the nature of paradise.

According to Nicholas, three very crafty Jews attached themselves to Muhammad in order to avert him. After Muhammad’s death, these crafty Jews approached Alis, the son of Abitalip, to whom Muhammad had bequeathed his collection of writings. Abitalip was persuaded by these Jews to elevate himself to a prophet. They added and deleted what was necessary from the book of Muhammad and added passages so that Muhammad would appear as a prophet.

I conclude that the purpose of making the Qur’an was not to make a new religion called Islam. Islam began in order to unite many Muslims with Jews and divert the teaching of Jesus Christ and the teaching of panentheism, away from Islam. Jesus expressed panentheism at John 14:20. The togetherness of Jews and Muslims exists today through the God called deism. But deism produces only ungodly rites. For the first time, the term 'Judeo-Christian' has become troublesome in my mind. At this time, only Christianity is an advancing form of panentheism

The God of Judaism, Christianity, and Islam is common because a monotheistic God is incomprehensible. One might conclude that the rites will not differ in these three religions. This conclusion is wrong because panentheism is able to gain "understandings" about God. These understandings can change common rites drastically and change the world fast.

Based on this information, it is inappropriate for any religion to express their rites at the place where the 9/11 event occurred in New York City. Only advancing religions should be allowed to express and record a new understandings there.
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Old August 19th, 2010, 03:05 PM   #40 (permalink)
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So basically you're just going to c&p a blog post and not address the crux of the notion that "majority rule" != rubber stamping religious intolerance.

Got it, thanks.

Also:

Quote:
While Congress can make no law respecting an establishment of religion, since the USA is a nation under God, Congress can make law that denies arbitrary rights.
f***ing :lol:

And finally:

Quote:
I conclude that the purpose of making the Qur’an was not to make a new religion called Islam. Islam began in order to unite many Muslims with Jews and divert the teaching of Jesus Christ and the teaching of panentheism, away from Islam.
Soooooo: Islam began in order to divert the teachings of Jesus away from Islam. Everybody got that? Good.

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Old August 19th, 2010, 03:06 PM   #41 (permalink)
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Oh dear god, are you a young earth creationist? Please please please be one of those, they're the funniest.
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Old August 19th, 2010, 03:12 PM   #42 (permalink)
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Oh dear god, are you a young earth creationist? Please please please be one of those, they're the funniest.
No dude. I'm not. You actually read all that sh!t. I forgot to provide a cite to that. Sorry.
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Old August 19th, 2010, 03:20 PM   #43 (permalink)
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No dude. I'm not. You actually read all that sh!t. I forgot to provide a cite to that. Sorry.
Unfortunately I made the mistake of thinking I was having a discussion with someone for whom the term "in good faith" has some semblance of meaning. I'm actually curious if, in your head, that wall of dreck comes anywhere near touching upon the topic at hand other than some rambling, insane conclusion that the Qur'an was written not as a holy text or one group of people's concept of the word of god, but as a trick perpetrated upon the world by literally 'three crafty Jews'. Like...f***ing seriously? I'm pretty sure I didn't order any crazy with my meal but goddamn that is a big steaming plate of it.

I really hope this is some epic troll but I'm not going to hold my breath.
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Old August 19th, 2010, 03:24 PM   #44 (permalink)
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While Congress can make no law respecting an establishment of religion, since the USA is a nation under God, Congress can make law that denies arbitrary rights.
"...the USA is a nation under God..."

You mean, some guys in the 1950's decided to add that phrase to "the pledge" in the 1950's.

Where is the proof that this is a nation under God? Where is the document from God stating that?

Again, what you are offering up is nothing more than an opinion. There's no evidence that "God" has or has had anything to do with the United States, or even that there is a God. That some guys have made that claim from time to time doesn't make it so, and the claim that this is a "Christian" nation is just more religious bulldorky.

It is clear to me the First Amendment gives everyone here the right to practice or not practice a religion. What it does not do is give "the religious" the right to shovel their beliefs onto the rest of us, or to those who do not believe. That doesn't mean I would want anyone to not discuss their beliefs publicly...I just don't want those beliefs used to mess around with my secular country and society.
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Old August 19th, 2010, 03:32 PM   #45 (permalink)
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Unfortunately I made the mistake of thinking I was having a discussion with someone for whom the term "in good faith" has some semblance of meaning. I'm actually curious if, in your head, that wall of dreck comes anywhere near touching upon the topic at hand other than some rambling, insane conclusion that the Qur'an was written not as a holy text or one group of people's concept of the word of god, but as a trick perpetrated upon the world by literally 'three crafty Jews'. Like...f***ing seriously? I'm pretty sure I didn't order any crazy with my meal but goddamn that is a big steaming plate of it.

I really hope this is some epic troll but I'm not going to hold my breath.
No, youve just been trolled. Actually, I kind of changed my mind while having a discussion with someone else in here like ten posts before, you know, where me and 3Devious were discussing. I just felt like posting the BS I copy-pasted from some website for fun.

But seriously, they have the right to, and by letting them do it, WE, as AMERICANS, can put our whole concept of "out of many one", to fuking work. Instead of focusing on putting the whole muslim religion down simply because the media has painted this picture of the muslim religion as all being terrorists. The worst thing is we listened to the media, people need to stop being followers, and start being leaders, as our founding fathers were. Although, if that 100 million dollars is not coming from something good, then Id have to disagree with myself. But hopefully its coming from good muslims. So I say, let them build the mosque. I say this as a Catholic.
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Old August 19th, 2010, 11:57 PM   #46 (permalink)
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You know what I love about this thread? In almost every thread in this forum people hate religion and go out of their way to lam bast any notion of it...but here they are defending a religion that is at least as intolerant as christianity.

Me thinks some people are thinking too deeply...or just like to talk?
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Old August 20th, 2010, 11:19 AM   #47 (permalink)
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You know what I love about this thread? In almost every thread in this forum people hate religion and go out of their way to lam bast any notion of it...but here they are defending a religion that is at least as intolerant as christianity.

Me thinks some people are thinking too deeply...or just like to talk?
Honestly, If they screw up somehow, I'd change my mind immediately, but the great thing is that in a couple of years they will build the freedom tower (hopefully they build It soon) there and we would be looking down at them, just as the hillbillys look down at the rednecks from the Appalachians.
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Old August 20th, 2010, 11:48 AM   #48 (permalink)
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I liked this quote from Al Franken:

Quote:
"It's a community center. They're going to have a gym. They're going to have point guards. Muslim point guards."
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