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Old November 25th, 2010, 02:42 PM   #151 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by mike114 View Post
So because I choose to do something, that automatically means the TSA can just ignore the Constitution? Do you realize how absurd your argument is? And let's use your example of walking down the street. What's to then prevent you from being stopped and searched all in the name of security?

We are losing our Rights piece by piece and we are idly sitting back and letting them do it to us. We are no longer a free country and Americans have taken their Liberty for granted. We are told what we can buy, what we can eat, what we can grow, what doctors we will be able to see, etc.

I feel sorrow and anger when it comes to people like you Irv. Our government is becoming more tyrannical and you just excuse it as, "Well, you chose to fly. You have no rights. We must be safe at all costs." Pathetic, truly pathetic.
If you tell a TSA worker bee to shove it up his arse, you are taken aside and questioned or fined or not allowed to fly.

If you mention how easy it would be to blow up a plane, you are taken aside and questioned and possibly jailed.

If you say no to these invasive searches, you do not fly.

If you tell a TSA worker to not touch your kids (in a way that is unquestionably illegal), you are perhaps (?) fined, taken to a room to be questioned and perhaps you will end up on as no fly list. Tell your company you can no longer fly and see if you still have a job.

We need to find a way to insure security that is constitutional and provides safety.

GOD, I TRULY hate to play the Nazi card, but people must read about how truly bad things happen and no one worries until we end up on a truly dark side of history and asking how the hell we got to this point.

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Old November 25th, 2010, 03:26 PM   #152 (permalink)
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Ahhh National Security. How many times must this be used to justify acts that are clearly unconstitutional? YES, we have a dire need for national security. Absolutely we do. But that phrase can be used to cover a multitude of sins by a multitude of people that think everyone is a potential threat.

When you are a hammer, everyone looks like a nail.

As for probable cause, you are wrong. I am a smart and clever fellow and if I were a cop, I am certain I could find a way to look at you. National Security is one answer and I/we would not need to justify why we dragged you to a little dark room for a few days of questioning. Then you decide probable cause sucks..

I suggest you grab a copy of Black's and read it.

We are/were innocent until proven guilty, but the TSA reverses it; we are all guilty, we have no rights, it is in the national interest that we make you remove a breast implant, as happened to one sad lady. What should we now fear, titty bombs? What is next? Vaginal inspections, time alone with “Terrorist Children,” perhaps? If we flew stark naked, the TSA will likely find reasons to scan and fondle with abandon.

What’s next? Scanners costing billions at bus stations and train stations? Checkpoints of all roads? It does not take a security expert to see that when it becomes too iffy to sneak a bomb past the TSA, they start planting them elsewhere. Then what? Perhaps if you watch Al Jezerra, probable cause allows us to search your house.

Where does it end?

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It does NOT end. It has just STARTED I am sad to say.
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Do I think Sarah Palin is more qualified than Obama to lead this country, most certainly. She has the experience lacking in Obama because she ran Alaska. As for McCain, still not sure. I want to like him, but he has problems. Likely not my choice for president... Bob Maxey Nov.12, 2010
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Old November 25th, 2010, 05:26 PM   #153 (permalink)
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"The majority of Newark’s full-body scanners were idle throughout much of the day, depriving most passengers of the chance to opt out of the controversial screening procedure even if they had wanted to."

Newark airport controversial scanners are barely used on busiest travel day | NJ.com

There are stories like this starting to pop up. May explain why there weren't massive delays at airports. Hopefully the threat of the opt-out has caused a rethinking of this policy already.
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Old November 26th, 2010, 11:11 PM   #154 (permalink)
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Here's a benfit of getting the pat downs. If you are going to get a pat down, insist the TSA agent change his gloves!!

Doctors sound TSA germ alert
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Old November 27th, 2010, 01:44 AM   #155 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by lrv View Post
If I invite you to my house, I have the right to search you before entering. If you don't comply, I can tell you to leave.
yes, it's your house your rules. You can even ask me to leave after we've been hanging out.
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Old November 27th, 2010, 07:12 AM   #156 (permalink)
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I boycotted the TSA by driving a rental car for my vacation.
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Old November 27th, 2010, 05:06 PM   #157 (permalink)
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Kis do play "Doctor" any more. They play TSA.
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Old November 28th, 2010, 04:13 PM   #158 (permalink)
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It amazes me how few a number of people actually understand their constitutional rights.
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Old November 29th, 2010, 08:56 AM   #159 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by avacomputers View Post
I like my life and would like to keep living it. So violate away. Not because it hasn't happen mean it wouldn't. They (not a racist comment) could be plotting right now.
By that statement, they can take everyone of your rights away. If you live by that statement, then you have NO rights. Remember that the next time you are pulled over and a cop wants to search your car... no rights.
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Old November 29th, 2010, 09:04 AM   #160 (permalink)
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Did you miss when I said they're not violating the Constitution? You don't have to fly. Violating the Constitution would be not giving you another choice, but there is another choice; don't fly.
The fact that you choose to do something doesn't mean you give up your constitutional rights.

You CHOOSE to drive, but they cannot violate your rights by searching you or your vehicle without probable cause.

My God, do you people even CARE that you HAVE rights, or what cost was paid for them?
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Old November 29th, 2010, 10:58 AM   #161 (permalink)
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The 4th amendment protects you from illegal search and seizure. This is a RIGHT you are born with regardless of if you're at an airport, driving down the highway, walking down the street or sitting in your house. Period. There is no 'Well then don't fly' or 'Well then don't drive' clause. What's next? 'Just don't leave your house and it won't matter?'

Are you really that much of a coward that you think that giving up your rights will somehow make you safer? I fly all the time and these security procedures do NOT make me feel any safer. We have to draw the line somewhere when it comes to freedom v safety and when it comes to TSA we have WAY overstepped that boundary and it's a blatant violation of our civil rights. When we created a civil right ending slavery would it have been fair to say 'You're free so long as you don't leave the house. As soon as you CHOOSE to leave the house you are choosing to give up your civil rights to freedom and you are fair game to be forced into slavery again by anyone who sees you as a danger to their freedom.' ?? Of course not yet that's not even up for debate today. How is this different again?

You people who support this need to study history and pay attention to our bill of rights and how it applies to each and all of us and why it was created to begin with as well as other countries who didn't/don't have one and how things ended for them. The founders of this country didn't just pull things out of the air when writing that great document. These things are as important now as they were then and yet we continue to trade away our liberties for temporary safety due to ignorance and fear.

Realize that life is inherently dangerous and no amount of legislation is going to protect you ultimately. The reason we are hated around the world is the level of our freedom. Terrorists hate the freedoms that we have and are directly trying to take that which we as a nation of fought for for hundreds of years. To use a term that has been beaten to death but has never applied so much: Every time we give up one of our freedoms or liberties for safety the terrorists win. Literally.
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Old November 29th, 2010, 11:29 AM   #162 (permalink)
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The only contribution I have to this thread is to say that those that intend to hurt this country are getting exactly what they wanted in the form of these activities and national uproar.
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Old November 29th, 2010, 11:43 AM   #163 (permalink)
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The only contribution I have to this thread is to say that those that intend to hurt this country are getting exactly what they wanted in the form of these activities and national uproar.
Bingo. I was typing something similar to this in response to a reply someone else posted and gave up halfway through realizing it would likely fall on deaf ears anyway. The ignorant can't be brought into reality with facts no matter how hard you try. I hope the color of the sky in their world is nice.
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Old November 29th, 2010, 01:59 PM   #164 (permalink)
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I had to fly over the Thanksgiving holiday as I mentioned in the first post. I planned on opting out, but wasn't given the choice as the scanners weren't at my local airport. I have minor issues with metal detectors, but don't find them overly invasive. Effective? Not so much, but at least they're not invasive. I have minor issues with them x-raying my carry on, but the pros outweigh the cons I think.

Anyway, they x-rayed my bag and it threw up alarms for some reason. They then proceeded to unpack my carry on bag completely in front of everyone. Shirts, pants, unmentionables, fur handcuffs, whips, chains, condoms, leather shackles, bong, porn, etc.... all got unpacked right in full view of everyone. Once they verified that I had 3 oz of shampoo and not 4 they put everything back in however which way they wanted and let me go to my gate. I figured the ordeal was over.

I get back to the gate and I'm sitting there minding my own business and reading a book. I had been sitting there for 45 mins or so when they came by and wanted to search my bag again. I should've told them to pound sand. They'd searched me once. They'd verified that I did not have weapons or explosives. Where would I get weapons and explosives between the security checkpoint and the gate? It's total BS. Mine was the only bag searched and once again they unpacked it completely in full view of all the other passengers and then re-packed it by crushing everything in the bag as best they could. When I asked what it was about my bag that set off alerts they said, "We're just being safe." They were complete and total pricks about it. They acted like I was ruining their day. Other passengers were standing around muttering words like "bully" and "abusive" and "show of force". It was complete BS.

On the way bag, they had the scanners at the airport, but none of them were being used and they were doing the metal detectors only. This time my bag with the exact same contents (minus the condoms of course) didn't set off any alarms and I got back home without incident.
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Old November 30th, 2010, 05:54 PM   #165 (permalink)
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Wait, in accordance with this logic my employer is violating my right to free speech?

Private property changes your rights. If the condition to be on my property is a strip search, your getting searched or removed. I'm amazed at how little people understang the constitution.
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Old November 30th, 2010, 06:12 PM   #166 (permalink)
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Wait, in accordance with this logic my employer is violating my right to free speech?

Private property changes your rights. If the condition to be on my property is a strip search, your getting searched or removed. I'm amazed at how little people understang the constitution.
Your private property is not subsidized or regulated by the federal government.
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Old November 30th, 2010, 06:40 PM   #167 (permalink)
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Your private property is not subsidized or regulated by the federal government.
That's exactly the issue. We have to be careful what we let the government spend money on. I like this as much as the next but government regulated is not government owned.
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Old November 30th, 2010, 07:51 PM   #168 (permalink)
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Wait, in accordance with this logic my employer is violating my right to free speech?

Private property changes your rights. If the condition to be on my property is a strip search, your getting searched or removed. I'm amazed at how little people understang the constitution.
Huge flaw in your argument. Airports aren't private property.
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Old November 30th, 2010, 11:53 PM   #169 (permalink)
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Huge flaw in your argument. Airports aren't private property.
And therein lies the problem. They should all be privately owned.
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Old December 1st, 2010, 12:03 AM   #170 (permalink)
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Huge flaw in your argument. Airports aren't private property.
hmm really? Which one is federally owned?
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Old December 1st, 2010, 12:15 AM   #171 (permalink)
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Huge flaw in your argument. Airports aren't private property.
More importantly the TSA is a federally funded program making it our federal government that is violating our civil rights w/o cause. Very slippery slope and blatant violation of our civil rights and any attempt to explain away is to be blind (read: brainwashed) to the truth.
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Old December 1st, 2010, 12:19 AM   #172 (permalink)
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hmm really? Which one is federally owned?
I believe you are correct, but I also think that most airports are owned and operated by local and state governments. I don't believe any gov't should be running the airports as I stated earlier.
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Old December 1st, 2010, 01:03 AM   #173 (permalink)
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I believe you are correct, but I also think that most airports are owned and operated by local and state governments. I don't believe any gov't should be running the airports as I stated earlier.
I agree, I'm just making the point that in theory they are within their right to make us strip if they wanted to. The conspiracy theorist in me says that this is a huge ploy by our government to justify some type of radically invasive program to keep track of people down the road. I mean we've had terrorist in planes for decades. The failure of 9/11 was the procedure to comply until you land. I guarantee that from here on out no plane is going to run into a building. The people on board would revolt, bomb or no bomb.

I'm 6'2". I HATE airplanes with a passion. I've been flying since I was 6 and it seems to me that each time I fly passengers are less and less reluctant to burden other passengers. I remember folks used to put their seat back while they slept and only then. Now as soon as we get the all clear the short little guy in front of me always slams that seat back until we are landing. I have no choice though. My parents live in frankfurt and unfortunately the only way to get there from here in a reasonable amount of time is by plane. Trust me I HATE the TSA also. Once in a blue moon you find a normal one but for the most part if your ducks aren't in a row they are going to hassle you.

What I'm getting at is that the fed is within their right. There are other ways to protect the planes but this seems to be their choice. And until the general populous says nuts to it we are stuck with it.
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Old December 1st, 2010, 01:08 AM   #174 (permalink)
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What I'm getting at is that the fed is within their right. There are other ways to protect the planes but this seems to be their choice. And until the general populous says nuts to it we are stuck with it.
We'll have to disagree. Like it was posted earlier, you don't just lose your 4th Amendment rights because you walk into an airport.
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Old December 1st, 2010, 01:29 AM   #175 (permalink)
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What I'm getting at is that the fed is within their right.
No, they're not. Those who study history and specifically their civil rights understand that this is a BLATANT violation of our inalienable rights. Congress shall NOT create any laws infringing on these rights. No government entity has ANY right to treat all citizens as criminals and search them w/o probably cause. Doesn't matter if it's in the name of national security or whatever they claim it's for.

Funny how the Federal government was created to protect our country's borders and yet they can't be bothered with their #1 responsibility yet things like this are priority #1 regardless of the outcry against it from those who aren't inclined to believe everything that is spoon fed to them.

I digress.

If you feel unsafe flying w/o overbearing security measures affecting all travelers then maybe it's YOU who shouldn't fly.. not those who value their constitutional rights. I shouldn't be subject to an illegal search because it makes you 'feel' safer. How are your feelings paramount to mine when mine are protected by the most important document in this nation's history?
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Old December 1st, 2010, 02:10 AM   #176 (permalink)
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No, they're not. Those who study history and specifically their civil rights understand that this is a BLATANT violation of our inalienable rights. Congress shall NOT create any laws infringing on these rights. No government entity has ANY right to treat all citizens as criminals and search them w/o probably cause. Doesn't matter if it's in the name of national security or whatever they claim it's for.

Funny how the Federal government was created to protect our country's borders and yet they can't be bothered with their #1 responsibility yet things like this are priority #1 regardless of the outcry against it from those who aren't inclined to believe everything that is spoon fed to them.

I digress.

If you feel unsafe flying w/o overbearing security measures affecting all travelers then maybe it's YOU who shouldn't fly.. not those who value their constitutional rights. I shouldn't be subject to an illegal search because it makes you 'feel' safer. How are your feelings paramount to mine when mine are protected by the most important document in this nation's history?
an airport provides a service and to use this service you have to abide by their rules. They are not forcing you to be searched. You can choose not to be. You have exercised your basic right of freedom of choice. I don't see no tsa personnel holding a gun to peoples heads and saying submit to the search or we blow your brains out.

Its like a casino they can ask you to leave at any time and don't even have to tell you why. Same way with an airport. They don't have to let you fly. Just because you bought a ticket. Doesn't mean you get on the plane. If they feel you are a threat guess what you don't fly.

Flying is a privilege not a right. Doesn't the airport have the right to insure their passengers safety?

Remember you have the choice to fly or not. That's where it starts. Not at the tsa Checkpoint. People are to gun ho to blurt out what their rights are. When no one is forcing them to do anything. They ask you and not force you. So right there they are giving you your choice. What you do after that is up to you.
 
Old December 1st, 2010, 02:38 AM   #177 (permalink)
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an airport provides a service and to use this service you have to abide by their rules.
Wrong...the TSA sets the rules when it comes to security.

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Originally Posted by Dark Jedi View Post
They are not forcing you to be searched. You can choose not to be. You have exercised your basic right of freedom of choice.
If I exercise my choice to fly (right to travel protected by the Constitution), then I must submit and concede my 4th Amendment rights. By what authority does anyone have to suspend the 4th Amendment???

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I don't see no tsa personnel holding a gun to peoples heads and saying submit to the search or we blow your brains out.
While you are right that you probably won't get shot, they will detain you and use physical force to make you comply if you decide against the search once you get through the initial checkpoint.

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Its like a casino they can ask you to leave at any time and don't even have to tell you why. Same way with an airport. They don't have to let you fly. Just because you bought a ticket. Doesn't mean you get on the plane. If they feel you are a threat guess what you don't fly.
Again, it's not the airport making these decisions, it's a government agency. And would you submit to the type of pat down everytime you walked into a casino, food store, Wal-Mart, etc that's conducted by the TSA?

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Originally Posted by Dark Jedi View Post
Flying is a privilege not a right. Doesn't the airport have the right to insure their passengers safety?

Remember you have the choice to fly or not. That's where it starts. Not at the tsa Checkpoint. People are to gun ho to blurt out what their rights are. When no one is forcing them to do anything. They ask you and not force you. So right there they are giving you your choice. What you do after that is up to you.
Again I ask, under what authority does anyone have to suspend and/or completely ignore the 4th Amendment. And about your statement about being gung ho about blurting what are rights are, if we don't defend our own freedoms, who will?? The government???? LMAO
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Old December 1st, 2010, 02:52 AM   #178 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by OstrichSaK View Post
No, they're not. Those who study history and specifically their civil rights understand that this is a BLATANT violation of our inalienable rights. Congress shall NOT create any laws infringing on these rights. No government entity has ANY right to treat all citizens as criminals and search them w/o probably cause. Doesn't matter if it's in the name of national security or whatever they claim it's for.

Funny how the Federal government was created to protect our country's borders and yet they can't be bothered with their #1 responsibility yet things like this are priority #1 regardless of the outcry against it from those who aren't inclined to believe everything that is spoon fed to them.

I digress.

If you feel unsafe flying w/o overbearing security measures affecting all travelers then maybe it's YOU who shouldn't fly.. not those who value their constitutional rights. I shouldn't be subject to an illegal search because it makes you 'feel' safer. How are your feelings paramount to mine when mine are protected by the most important document in this nation's history?
I think you're refering to ben franklin " those who surrender liberty for safety deserve neither." I have to agree with that. In my mind the difference lies within the ownership of the airplanes. You're not being searched for being in the airport but rather for boarding a plane.

Does the government have the right to mandate seat belts?
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Old December 1st, 2010, 03:22 AM   #179 (permalink)
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Profiling does work when used in conjunction with other techniques so I don't think it's racist at all
this is what you wrote in the other thread mike.

You are all for trampling of a minority civil rights and subject them to as you put it illegal search and seizure. Because the was born looking like a terrorist. Plus you said I don't consider that racist. But as soon as you have to be subjected to the same search. You call foul and say that's a violation of my 4th amendment rights. So its ok to trample over American citizens that happen to be of middle eastern decent amendment rights because they look like terrorists?
 
Old December 1st, 2010, 04:05 AM   #180 (permalink)
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this is what you wrote in the other thread mike.

You are all for trampling of a minority civil rights and subject them to as you put it illegal search and seizure. Because the was born looking like a terrorist. Plus you said I don't consider that racist. But as soon as you have to be subjected to the same search. You call foul and say that's a violation of my 4th amendment rights. So its ok to trample over American citizens that happen to be of middle eastern decent amendment rights because they look like terrorists?
If we were to just pull aside people only because they were profiled, I would agree with you. But to ignore the fact that a vast majority of terrorist attacks are done by Muslims, it is irresponsible not to use it as a tool. No where did I say they should be sent through a porno scanner or be felt up by a TSA agent.

And not just profile based on race or religion. How about someone with only a one way ticket? Or someone with minimal luggage yet they will be on a 10 day trip? There are many ways to profile someone. Using some logical thinking and good attention to details is not a violation of anyone's 4th Amendment rights.

Nice try in attempting to insinuate that profiling might not affect me. FYI...I'm of Portuguese descent, have black hair, a black goatee and have a darker skin complexion than most whites. Anyone looking at me can mistake me being from a ME country. Your attempt to play the hypocrisy card didn't work.
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Old December 1st, 2010, 07:59 AM   #181 (permalink)
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well the good thing was last Wednesday when i was at the airport there was no one refusing the full body scanners
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Old December 1st, 2010, 08:03 AM   #182 (permalink)
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Wait, in accordance with this logic my employer is violating my right to free speech?
This argument is absolutely ridiculous.

Here's are the reasons why:

1) Your employer isn't the government.

2) Your employer doesn't stop you from saying Anything you choose to. They simply are not required to employ you if you say something that they don't like.

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Private property changes your rights.
How absolutely and utterly ridiculous. That's like saying that once you walk into a police station, they can search you anyway, and anywhere they want. It's not true, and it's dangerous thinking.

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If the condition to be on my property is a strip search, your getting searched or removed.
Actually, if you did that, you would likely be charged with sexual assault, and go to jail.

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I'm amazed at how little people understang the constitution.
I'm amazed at just how ironic this statement really is.
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Old December 1st, 2010, 08:11 AM   #183 (permalink)
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I agree, I'm just making the point that in theory they are within their right to make us strip if they wanted to.
No they are not. There is no exemption in the constitution for private property.

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What I'm getting at is that the fed is within their right. There are other ways to protect the planes but this seems to be their choice. And until the general populous says nuts to it we are stuck with it.
Bullcrap. The fed is not within their right. We are protected from unreasonable search and seizure without probable cause. There is nothing in there that says, unless it's in an airport, or private property.



For example, if your employer wants to, they can call the police on you. They can ask the police to strip search you. However, without probable cause, the police cannot do it. I don't care if you are on your employer's property, your home, your employer's house, Mars, or the police station. It's a violation of your rights anywhere, and so is this search by the TSA.
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Old December 1st, 2010, 08:20 AM   #184 (permalink)
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an airport provides a service and to use this service you have to abide by their rules. They are not forcing you to be searched. You can choose not to be. You have exercised your basic right of freedom of choice. I don't see no tsa personnel holding a gun to peoples heads and saying submit to the search or we blow your brains out.

Its like a casino they can ask you to leave at any time and don't even have to tell you why. Same way with an airport. They don't have to let you fly. Just because you bought a ticket. Doesn't mean you get on the plane. If they feel you are a threat guess what you don't fly.

Flying is a privilege not a right. Doesn't the airport have the right to insure their passengers safety?

Remember you have the choice to fly or not. That's where it starts. Not at the tsa Checkpoint. People are to gun ho to blurt out what their rights are. When no one is forcing them to do anything. They ask you and not force you. So right there they are giving you your choice. What you do after that is up to you.

I am about tired of this argument, so I've got a little story to tell about a woman who had a choice whether or not to partake in a service.

We all know a woman named Rosa Parks had the choice whether or not to partake in the service of riding on the Bus.

The fact that it was HER choice didn't mean that her rights weren't violated. It didn't mean that she left her rights at the door when she road the bus.

Or did she? You seem to think that she did. As you seem to think that we ALL do.

Anything the government does is fine... as long as we have a choice to partake in the service... right?
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Old December 1st, 2010, 08:21 AM   #185 (permalink)
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I think you're refering to ben franklin " those who surrender liberty for safety deserve neither." I have to agree with that. In my mind the difference lies within the ownership of the airplanes. You're not being searched for being in the airport but rather for boarding a plane.

Does the government have the right to mandate seat belts?
You are honestly comparing mandating seat belts with touching your genitals without cause?

And for the record, I don't believe that they have the right to mandate seat belts.
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Old December 1st, 2010, 08:23 AM   #186 (permalink)
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well the good thing was last Wednesday when i was at the airport there was no one refusing the full body scanners
That's NOT a good thing. A nation full of cowards too timid to defend their rights... is most decidedly NOT a good thing.
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Old December 1st, 2010, 09:46 AM   #187 (permalink)
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i dont see ANY problem with these scanners and everyone is making a huge deal over nothing. Just walk through the damn scanners and lets get on with the day!! No one wants to save a picture of the outline of your weeny and post it online. Its not the large. walk thru it so we can move on with our lives.

one person makes a big deal over things and everyone else follows like little monkeys.
kthxbye
I agree. Your do not have the right to fly. You have chosen to fly. You can choose to drive, train, or walk. When I need to fly I want to know that I am safe as possible.
I am sure it is stessful to them as it is to you. Unless you are a husband and they are doing it to your wife.
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Old December 1st, 2010, 10:29 AM   #188 (permalink)
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hey, the one thing I'm sure of is that private property changes your rights. You have no right to be on said property. You can be asked to leave if the owner decides he doesn't like your hair piece.
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Old December 1st, 2010, 10:44 AM   #189 (permalink)
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I agree. Your do not have the right to fly. You have chosen to fly. You can choose to drive, train, or walk. When I need to fly I want to know that I am safe as possible.
This statement is ironic.

It is ok, because you don't have a right to fly. You choose to fly.

You can also choose to do the following things that you don't have a right to do: drive and take a train (which by your justification above, the TSA would be well within their "rights" to force these searches when you drive, or take a train... because you don't have a right to do those things, you choose to do those things).

The only thing, by your reasoning, that they wouldn't be able to search you, would be when you walk...

But for further clarification. You don't have to ride the bus. You don't have a right to ride the bus. If you don't want to sit in the back, then don't ride the bus.
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Old December 1st, 2010, 10:50 AM   #190 (permalink)
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hey, the one thing I'm sure of is that private property changes your rights.
No it doesn't. It doesn't change your rights one bit.

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You have no right to be on said property.
You don't have that right whether you are on that property or not. That doesn't change because you enter private property. Nothing about your rights changes because you are on private property. You don't have the right to enter private property without the permission of the owner, and you stay at the indulgence of the owner.

You don't HAVE the right to enter my house, until you do...

Your rights do not change because you are on private property. Period.

Otherwise, entering someone else's house would give the police full authority to give you a strip/cavity search anytime they wanted.
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Old December 1st, 2010, 11:38 AM   #191 (permalink)
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I agree. Your do not have the right to fly. You have chosen to fly. You can choose to drive, train, or walk. When I need to fly I want to know that I am safe as possible.
I am sure it is stessful to them as it is to you. Unless you are a husband and they are doing it to your wife.
I'm done. 4 pages of debating this and then this post shows up like nothing has been discussed for over a week. Could you at least provide some proof where the federal government can suspend your 4th Amendment rights just because you happen to choose to fly. This argument is weak and doesn't change anything that is clearly defined in the Constitution.

Hey sixtythree, repeat after me, "Baaaaaaaa". If you're wondering, that's the sound of sheep.
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Old December 1st, 2010, 12:09 PM   #192 (permalink)
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I'm done. 4 pages of debating this and then this post shows up like nothing has been discussed for over a week. Could you at least provide some proof where the federal government can suspend your 4th Amendment rights just because you happen to choose to fly. This argument is weak and doesn't change anything that is clearly defined in the Constitution.

Hey sixtythree, repeat after me, "Baaaaaaaa". If you're wondering, that's the sound of sheep.
/thread
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Old December 1st, 2010, 03:28 PM   #193 (permalink)
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No it doesn't. It doesn't change your rights one bit.
Yeah it does. If you come into my house and insult my mother, I can toss you out on your ass. If you stand on the street corner or the public park, you can insult my mother until your face turns green and no one can do a thing to stop you. You're exercising your first amendment right.
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Old December 1st, 2010, 03:50 PM   #194 (permalink)
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Yeah it does. If you come into my house and insult my mother, I can toss you out on your ass. If you stand on the street corner or the public park, you can insult my mother until your face turns green and no one can do a thing to stop you. You're exercising your first amendment right.
Ahh..That isn't quite accurate.

You can still be arrested/charged/fined for something like that. There are numerous amounts of loop holes they could use on you. The easiest (and their favorite weapon of choice) is disorderly conduct. Public nuisance, public obscenity, and disturbing the peace are also in their arsenal.
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Old December 1st, 2010, 04:06 PM   #195 (permalink)
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No it doesn't. It doesn't change your rights one bit.



You don't have that right whether you are on that property or not. That doesn't change because you enter private property. Nothing about your rights changes because you are on private property. You don't have the right to enter private property without the permission of the owner, and you stay at the indulgence of the owner.

You don't HAVE the right to enter my house, until you do...

Your rights do not change because you are on private property. Period.

Otherwise, entering someone else's house would give the police full authority to give you a strip/cavity search anytime they wanted.
umm, you're saying what I just said...how am I supposed to argue with that?
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Old December 2nd, 2010, 12:40 AM   #196 (permalink)
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Yeah it does. If you come into my house and insult my mother, I can toss you out on your ass. If you stand on the street corner or the public park, you can insult my mother until your face turns green and no one can do a thing to stop you. You're exercising your first amendment right.
If someone comes to your house and calls your mother a skank you can proceed to throw them out. If they don't leave they are now trespassing and can be charged with this if you wish to press charges. You still can't take away their right to bear arms or privacy or any other civil right.... so how does it affect this topic again? It amazes me how people who have no idea what they're talking about are so easily confused by their own bovine excrement.
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Old December 2nd, 2010, 01:02 AM   #197 (permalink)
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If someone comes to your house and calls your mother a skank you can proceed to throw them out.
condition

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If they don't leave they are now trespassing and can be charged with this if you wish to press charges.
consequence

If you fly the condition is you submit to a search. The consequence for not meeting the condition is not flying.


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You still can't take away their right to bear arms or privacy or any other civil right.... so how does it affect this topic again?
Do you expect to fly with a firearm? It is your 2nd amendment right?

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It amazes me how people who have no idea what they're talking about are so easily confused by their own bovine excrement.
This is disappointing and only takes away from your credibility.
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Old December 2nd, 2010, 07:48 AM   #198 (permalink)
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For those condoning what the TSA is doing in the name of safety, let me ask this.

1 - Is the government allowed to suspend your 4th Amendment rights at anytime? If so, under what authority?

2 - What other law enforcement agent would be able to walk up to you, touch you the way the TSA does without a warrant or probable cause just because you decided to do anything that day in the public square?
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Old December 2nd, 2010, 07:52 AM   #199 (permalink)
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Pretty sad people who would give up their rights for a marginal amount of safety, because the darned scanners don't even detect bombs.

Also sad, most people here who think this is legal obviously would fail High School. All of you disagreeing, are you high school drop outs or did you just cheat on your constitution test?
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Old December 2nd, 2010, 07:57 AM   #200 (permalink)
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=X4G-0g9PRrE

"POLICE STATE - TSA, Homeland Security & Tampa Police Set Up Nazi Checkpoints At Bus Stations"

Looks like those CHOOSING to take the bus are out of luck as well. But I'm sure this is swell for you sheeple. Next up, trains. It will be a national transportation groping session.
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