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Old February 15th, 2011, 12:11 PM   #1 (permalink)
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oops! Just found this:

Huawei Unveils Android Smartphone, Tablet | News & Opinion | PCMag.com


Fresh from the MWC in Barcelong (2 hours ago):
(Mobile World Congresss)
BARCELONA—Huawei on Tuesday unveiled two Android-based devices, the Huawei Ideos X3 smartphone and the Ideos S7 Slim tablet.
The company also announced a plug-and-link data card for mobile broadband and a new wireless modem with intelligent routing here at Mobile World Congress.
The Ideos S7 Slim tablet includes a 7-inch capacitive touch screen with an 800-by-480 display. It supports 720p HD video, and includes 3G, Wi-Fi and Bluetooth connectivity options. There are also options for SMS and MSS, as well as 3G voice and video. It has a 3.2-megapixel camera.
The Ideos S7 will run Android 2.2 at launch on a Qualcomm Snapdragon 1-GHz processor.
Huawei said the Ideos S7 Slim will debut globally in April. Pricing was not revealed.
The Ideos X3, meanwhile, is an ultra-slim smartphone with a 3.2-inch capacitive HVGA curved touch screen; Huawei said it is the thinnest device in the 3.2-inch range on the market. Its front-facing camera is 3.2 megapixels, and the device will support up to 16GB. It has a Micro USB 2.0 port and 3.5mm jack, and support for 802.11b/g/n.
It runs Android 2.3 Gingerbread, and will be available in Japan via Softbank Mobile starting in March. It will expand to Europe, China, the Middle East, Russia, and Southeast Asia in mid-2011. Huawei said it will be priced below $200.
The Huawei HiLink is a plug-and-link data card that connects to broadband on-the-go; Huawei said users can be hooked up to the Internet in as little as 15 seconds after plugging into the USB port. It will be available in Europe in the second quarter, priced between $100 and $150.
Finally, the Huawei Mobile Wi-Fi Smart Pro is a wireless model that selects the best high-speed connection available. It supports iOS, Android, Windows, and Mac and provides up to four hours of surfing time. It will be released in select markets in the second quarter with an LTE version scheduled for the third quarter. It will be priced between $200 and $270.


~~~~~~~~~


The X3 is going to come with 2.3 Gingerbread. That sheds an entirely different light on the phone. Hmmm....


But it doesn't sound like it's going to come to the U.S. at all. I just wonder if Huawei totally put out with the shabby and unfair treatment they have been getting from the U.S. Government. If Obama quashes their California acquisition, based on recommendations from the Pentagon that Huawei poses a 'security threat' to the United States, then I wouldn't blame Huawei for pulling all their products from here.


The sad thing is that there isn't another manufacture around who doesn't totally want to rip-off the consumer. Huawei is the first to offer us products at a fair and reasonable price.


IMO that's why they want to get rid of them. So they can continue to charge these astronomically high and absurd prices for mobile phones, etc that are made dirt cheap.



Yes...I am upset over the way Huawei is being treated.

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Old February 15th, 2011, 12:38 PM   #2 (permalink)
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Default Does the US discriminate against Huawei (a moved discussion)

That's likely going to impact other phone carriers if Huawei gets locked out. Say goodbye to a lot of budget phones, since a lot of them are rebranded.

I really would love to know just how Huawei is a national security threat, other than the fact that cheap merchandise from there keeps corporations here from creating jobs here.
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Old February 15th, 2011, 01:19 PM   #3 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by BlastGT1 View Post
I really would love to know just how Huawei is a national security threat, other than the fact that cheap merchandise from there keeps corporations here from creating jobs here.

If by creating jobs here you mean other cell phone manufactures? I REALLY do not think any cell phones are made in the US.

Who knows what the deal is..Same thing happened with the Playstation 1 2 and 3 when they were released.
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Old February 15th, 2011, 02:11 PM   #4 (permalink)
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I meant imported product as a whole, not just cell phones. China in general being a monetary threat because of cheap goods. Hey, it sounded right when I was typing it!
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Old February 18th, 2011, 03:09 PM   #5 (permalink)
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Breaking News!!!

Huawei refuses to back down to U.S. Council


Snippet:

February 18, 2011, 4:49 am Mergers & Acquisitions

The Big Chill: Huawei Imbroglio Puts Countries at Odds


By CHRIS V. NICHOLSON Jacob Kepler/Bloomberg News The Huawei Technologies booth at the 2011 International Consumer Electronics Show.
A move by the United States to block the Chinese company Huawei Technologies from buying 3Leaf Systems shows that sometimes an acquisition is more than just an acquisition. This one is part of a wider standoff between Washington and Beijing that may have a chilling effect on cross-border deals.
A China ministry spokesman said Thursday that the United States was using national securities concerns to impede Chinese deals and harming relations between the two countries.


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Old February 18th, 2011, 03:16 PM   #6 (permalink)
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I find this highly interesting since nearly everything you buy is Made in China anymore. And that's because U.S. Manufacturers (like Mattel Toy Company for example) are outsourcing everything to China.

Nothing is Made in America anymore except WEAPONS!

It does seem unfair to me because it was actually Republican Representatives who brought this matter up to begin with. Does anyone else think it is highly coincidental that this happened just after Huawei filed a lawsuit against Motorola to halt the contract with Nokia because of what Huawei alleged was IP theft?

Motorola has been making large donations to these Reps campaigns.

Huawei has announced worldwide that they believe the end user is paying far too much for their handsets and as the 2nd largest telecom manufacturer in the world they have the potential of being a real force to be dealt with here in the U.S.

The competition wants to keep the prices up!

Huawei wants to make the prices fair.

So...the U.S. says they are a security threat to keep them out?

This is just wrong!
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Old February 18th, 2011, 06:30 PM   #7 (permalink)
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The real truth behind the Chinese dealings is more along the lines of learning their lesson about intellectual property lawsuits from the best there is: The MPAA, RIAA, and the politicians in their back pockets.

China is using IP litigation to get more leverage and get more business of their own, and suddenly the US politicians are having to deal with the unexpected side effects of trying to ram draconian IP laws down the world's throats. Sucks when someone takes what you taught them and uses it against you in ways you never thought of doing yourself.
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Old February 19th, 2011, 06:20 AM   #8 (permalink)
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Ok, the problem the government has with huawei has nothing to do with cell phones. The company huawei wants to buy is into cloud computing. The US doesn't want huawei to have the tech this company has because they allege huawei is owned by the chinese government. (huawei denies this). Who's telling the truth? Hell if I know. I don't trust any of these government types. My point is, it's complicated, and theres a lot more going on behind the scenes than we know. I do know the chinese can play hardball with the best of them, thats why they have been around for thousands of years. I totally agree our politicians are bought and paid for, but their owners may not be as obvious as it seems.
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Old February 19th, 2011, 12:38 PM   #9 (permalink)
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The story's got some interesting spin.

It's been US policy for years to control anything related to foreign investment in anything even getting close to our media - and with China being a tech-export controlled country, there are even more hurdles.

CFIUS is an arm of the Treasury - it exists to attempt to make these case-by-case decisions.

The CFIUS published statement is nowhere online yet, it was the Chinese who first took it up with their intelligence side, and on our side, a single new source crossed the two, and now this is becoming common knowledge.

And in the foreign trade game, this sort of posturing is really quite normal - both sides are laden with facts and propaganda, and that's just going in.

And this idea that Hauwei wants the world to have cheaper handsets - why? Because they're on the side of good and light? No - because a lot of stuff is made in their country and with more middlemen between them and the consumers, end prices are driven up and they're not getting their lick of the cream. So - rather than jack up prices for market-driven profits, they're pushing for lower pricing and an insanely higher production volume ability to increase profits.

Western capitalism meets Asian thinking, more so than perhaps hoist by our own IP and lobbying petards. Perhaps only, tho.

Second half of this vid may be of interest to some.

Asia Today: Dong Devalued; Huawei Deal in Peril - Exchange - WSJ

And whether Huawei is owned by the Chinese government or not - that's Western thinking. Asian countries have a much, much more flexible idea of what ownership means than we do.

PS - The US still makes lots of stuff besides nukes - way lots.
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Old February 19th, 2011, 02:01 PM   #10 (permalink)
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That's interesting about the Vietnamese Dong, Early. Especially considering the fact that the US dollar is basically not worth the paper it's printed on. LOL

As for products produced in this country anymore....let's suffice it to say that while there may still be some other than weapons, what we actually produce and import is a mere fraction of what we used to, since almost all the big companies are outsourcing.

We do still make automobiles, kinda. LOL

And as far as Huawei being the "good and light" .... well, to be honest I did read where the CEO of Huawei was quoted as saying he felt the end user was having to pay too much and that they (Huawei) wanted to make the price more fair. (I haven't seen evidence of any American manufacturer doing the same.) Supposedly this is why they came out with the Ascend, the world's first affordable smart phone. Cricket was the first to get this phone and it premiered in November 2010, for $109.00 (on sale with $149 being retail). That's cheap for any Android.

And it's a very good product to boot.

Huawei is set to produce some very hot new numbers here in 2011 and not just in handsets, but in tablets and modems and other related devices all at lower prices than their competition.

I may sound Anti-American, and I'm really not. I love my country. I just don't agree with the greedy guys who run it. I don't really know who the 'good guys' are anymore, Early. I am no long just American in my thinking. I have become very globalized. LOL



Thanks so much for your feedback. I found it really interesting.

PS....Huawei did back down on the 3Leaf deal. They made the announcement yesterday.
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Old February 19th, 2011, 02:09 PM   #11 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BlastGT1 View Post
The real truth behind the Chinese dealings is more along the lines of learning their lesson about intellectual property lawsuits from the best there is: The MPAA, RIAA, and the politicians in their back pockets.

China is using IP litigation to get more leverage and get more business of their own, and suddenly the US politicians are having to deal with the unexpected side effects of trying to ram draconian IP laws down the world's throats. Sucks when someone takes what you taught them and uses it against you in ways you never thought of doing yourself.
There's a lot of truth in what you say, Blast. The one conclusion I have reached after much research is that they are probably all guilty of IP theft. Huawei has been in the background until lately even though they were the first in much of the technology we hear so much about today.

Apparently the fact that they are not willing to remain in the background isn't being well received by those companies they have partnered with in the past. i.e. Motorola, Nokia, Samsung, et al

Mid 2010 Motorola slapped a lawsuit on Huawei for IP theft, which was settled out of court. Now Huawei is suing Motorola.

Whatever the case may be it looks like Huawei is being more aggressive and is determined to be a major force to be reckoned with.

:P
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Old February 19th, 2011, 02:13 PM   #12 (permalink)
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Glad you found my insights worthwhile. Being an R&D member of the semiconductor industry and living in Asia for half of every year until recently has certainly opened my eyes on a few things, especially global trade and the propaganda surrounding it. I was in China just before they sent gunboats and nuclear subs into the straights and stood on the ramparts in Taiwan watching them approach, reading a Chinese newpaper outlining how the nuclear subs missile strike capabilities were necessary to secure freedom for the Taiwanese, especially their industries.

And I can't resist mentioning that in addition to cars, we still manage to make a few CPUs, hard drives, light processors and other minor toys.

But I digress.

I'm excited about the news you posted because it's a clear indication that Huawei is taking our market very seriously and - in my opinion - there's always room for quality products at competitive prices and many very fine things are made in China.

BTW - would you be able to tell me about Huawei's existing US infrastructure, or direct me to some links? Via PM is certainly OK, I wouldn't want to waste too much off-topic bandwidth here - unless you feel that it would help raise Huawei awareness, then of course I'm all for it.

PS - On the topic of IP theft, many of you know that Chinese thinking is truly different on this.

Yes, some are thieves pure and simple - but - many more simply don't have the Western-insular viewpoint on that.

And - following IP lawsuits in the semiconductor industry is like quantum physics - it's not only stranger than you imagine - it's stranger than you can imagine.
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Old February 19th, 2011, 02:13 PM   #13 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gmash View Post
Ok, the problem the government has with huawei has nothing to do with cell phones. The company huawei wants to buy is into cloud computing. The US doesn't want huawei to have the tech this company has because they allege huawei is owned by the chinese government. (huawei denies this). Who's telling the truth? Hell if I know. I don't trust any of these government types. My point is, it's complicated, and theres a lot more going on behind the scenes than we know. I do know the chinese can play hardball with the best of them, thats why they have been around for thousands of years. I totally agree our politicians are bought and paid for, but their owners may not be as obvious as it seems.
Yeah Gmash, there is much more going on behind the scenes politically. LOL

As far as Huawei being a security threat, they have opened their doors for the U.S. to come in and check on everything to prove that they are not connected to the Chinese military or the government. The U.S.wanted transparency and Huawei offered it to them and they were still turned down.

It does look like the U.S. is discouraging Chinese investment, as the Chinese Ministry has claimed.



Thing is...who needs who the most?
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Old February 19th, 2011, 02:27 PM   #14 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jazziette View Post
Yeah Gmash, there is much more going on behind the scenes politically. LOL

As far as Huawei being a security threat, they have opened their doors for the U.S. to come in and check on everything to prove that they are not connected to the Chinese military or the government. The U.S.wanted transparency and Huawei offered it to them and they were still turned down.

It does look like the U.S. is discouraging Chinese investment, as the Chinese Ministry has claimed.



Thing is...who needs who the most?
You seem to have ignored my discussion regarding the security threat, and are advocating something that's neither realistic nor pertinent - specifically: that there's credibility to the idea that Huawei could be transparent.

That's flatly unpossible.

Totally off-topic, ok if you don't answer, just curious - have you ever been to Shanghai?
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Old February 19th, 2011, 02:33 PM   #15 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EarlyMon View Post
You seem to have ignored my discussion regarding the security threat, and are advocating something that's neither realistic nor pertinent - specifically: that there's credibility to the idea that Huawei could be transparent.

That's flatly unpossible.

Totally off-topic, ok if you don't answer, just curious - have you ever been to Shanghai?
I didn't mean to ignore it. I thought I did address that. I don't think they are a security threat at all. I think this is all politics, basically. JMHO LOL

As for if Huawei could be transparent I don't really know. They did open their doors. However, now they have backed down. I do find it difficult to believe that there is any company that big anywhere that has NO ties to the government. I think that just because the founder was once in the Chinese military is basically lame.

No, I have never been to Shanghai but I've been to Albuquerque.

Have you? (been to Shanghai?)
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Old February 19th, 2011, 02:38 PM   #16 (permalink)
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Yep - and more than a few major cities in Asia, as I alluded to above, post 35.

They have better Asian food there than we get here - but we have a good Asian market in ABQ, so once in a while, I'm able to eat well.

Again, from the above post - anything on Huawei's structure here in the US you can share?

For example - HTC has a major R&D group here in the US.

Do you think Huawei has any that we've not heard of - or is planning one - or do you think they only have sales agents here?
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Old February 19th, 2011, 03:21 PM   #17 (permalink)
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From EarlyMon (black text)
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Glad you found my insights worthwhile. Very much so. I appreciate knowledge and intelligence even when debating, which I don't feel we are doing. I feel we are exchanging ideas and I enjoy that. Being an R&D member of the semiconductor industry and living in Asia for half of every year until recently has certainly opened my eyes on a few things, especially global trade and the propaganda surrounding it. Very impressive. I was unaware of that, of course and happy that I am trading thoughts with someone who has firsthand experience and knowledge. I'm sure I can learn a lot from you. Huawei has a HUGE R&D department as you may already know. I was in China just before they sent gunboats and nuclear subs into the straights and stood on the ramparts in Taiwan watching them approach, reading a Chinese newpaper outlining how the nuclear subs missile strike capabilities were necessary to secure freedom for the Taiwanese, especially their industries. Well, I have stated that I didn't think that Huawei posed a security threat to the U.S. in their purchase of 3Leaf, but I am certainly not so naive to think that China could never be a threat to the U.S. or the world in fact. I do give the Chinese more credit than wanting to destroy the world, which would more than likely be the result of a nuclear war, but I was unaware that China had developed nuclear weapons at this time. It does seem implausible that with their expertise in technology they haven't. In fact, I have often wondered how North Korea advanced so quickly in this area and pondered on China's involvement. I seriously can't blame any country for wanting to have nuclear weapons.

Again...I don't want to come off as Un-American.

As for Taiwan, when the Chinese wanted to free the Taiwanese does this mean they wanted to reclaim Taiwan. Didn't Taiwan used to be Formosa and part of China? I suppose they still view Taiwan as 'theirs'. LOL It must have been an "interesting" mix of emotions for someone of your intellect to watch gunboats and subs approaching. I would very much love to hear (through whatever outlet) more about this experience from you.

And I can't resist mentioning that in addition to cars, we still manage to make a few CPUs, hard drives, light processors and other minor toys.

Yes .... okay I will concede this point. LOL

But I digress.

I'm excited about the news you posted because it's a clear indication that Huawei is taking our market very seriously and - in my opinion - there's always room for quality products at competitive prices and many very fine things are made in China.

BTW - would you be able to tell me about Huawei's existing US infrastructure, or direct me to some links? I can actually do more than that, Early. Their North American headquarters is located in Plano, TX and I have made contact (via phone) with their Director of Radio Technology there. Because we couldn't understand each other too well via phone we are emailing at this time. I'll PM you what I know currently. Via PM is certainly OK, I wouldn't want to waste too much off-topic bandwidth here - unless you feel that it would help raise Huawei awareness, then of course I'm all for it.

I have found my research into Huawei to be fascinating and will be happy to share some facts that I have found to be most interesting.

PS - On the topic of IP theft, many of you know that Chinese thinking is truly different on this.

I have personally never had any business dealing with the Chinese. But I do have a very good friend who was in the eyewear business for years and had close connections with them. He says they are very honorable in their dealings and consider a breach of trust to be one of the worst things a person (business) can do.

Yes, some are thieves pure and simple - but - many more simply don't have the Western-insular viewpoint on that.

I think I'll refrain from comment on this one. LOL

And - following IP lawsuits in the semiconductor industry is like quantum physics - it's not only stranger than you imagine - it's stranger than you can imagine.

I'm beginning to get the picture! hahaha

Thanks so much for your highly interesting perspective and intellect. I will be posting some links here soon that give a little more insight as to what Huawei has been up to here in the U.S. (as well as the world)
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Old February 21st, 2011, 10:15 AM   #18 (permalink)
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The major reason I see for the US using any and all tactics to hold back the Chinese is that China isn't going to be long in surpassing the US in so many aspects as to become the strongest economic nation in the world. While we have to deal with lobbyists, politicians, and corporations who all want a piece of the pie here, China does not seem to have to put up with as much legal red tape.

China is the current threat to US dominance in the world, and they are aggressive at pushing their expansion. I look at it as a combination of paranoia, ignorance, and pride. I don't have any doubt that China has ulterior motives in a lot of things that they do, but show me a country of note that doesn't. It's popular worldwide to bash the US and talk about how corrupt its government is, but the simple fact is that anywhere there is power and money, you will find corruption. The fact there is, the US is a lot more open about what goes on in general (because of the media and the freedoms allowed) than almost any other nation on earth. Never think that, just because you don't hear or read about something, that it isn't happening. And by the same token, don't believe everything you read or hear, because that doesn't make it true.
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Old February 21st, 2011, 02:53 PM   #19 (permalink)
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That was really a predictable move by CFIUS (arm of the Treasury, not the Pentagon) - that scrutiny and recommendation was pretty much standard operating procedure driven nuts by pundits.

What would have been news is if they'd recommended otherwise.

Each and every country has a financial ministry that effectively makes these same sort of decisions - with the same sort of outcome - every year.

It tends to come down to trade balance. Often, the impasse is overcome very simply: if you're going to own something on our soil, what can we own on yours?

It's only in this forum that this is gaining an extraordinary life with deeper meanings.

Again - there is no way for Huawei to be open, despite what they say. That had zero to do with anything. There is no way for any high-tech company to be open. That's just an industrial fact, everywhere. Who owns them has zilch to do with it.

This idea of an onslaught of quality products being withheld by your government is not reasonable.

And the idea of insisting that national security is involved as part of story is never new:

China's U.S. investments soar - Jul. 21, 2010

It's about the Benjamins, trade, treaties and politics:

Chinese Direct Investment in the United States, The Challenges Ahead | Location USA

?Rebalancing? Chinese Investment in the United States | The Heritage Foundation

We call it Occam's Razor - if you're in the plains of the Western US, and you hear hoofbeats behind you but didn't see the animal, don't expect that you missed a zebra sighting - it's more likely to have been a horse.

Same thing here.

The CFIUS recommendation and Huawei's subsequent decision to withdraw is going to affect their smartphone sales here by about 0.000000000%.

PS - I know that vid I posted earlier had the Vietnamese Dong in the title and at the beginning of the vid, but the second part on the dead deal wasn't bad.
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Old February 21st, 2011, 02:58 PM   #20 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by EarlyMon View Post
That was really a predictable move by CFIUS (arm of the Treasury, not the Pentagon) - that scrutiny and recommendation was pretty much standard operating procedure driven nuts by pundits.

What would have been news is if they'd recommended otherwise.

Each and every country has a financial ministry that effectively makes these same sort of decisions - with the same sort of outcome - every year.

It tends to come down to trade balance. Often, the impasse is overcome very simply: if you're going to own something on our soil, what can we own on yours?

It's only in this forum that this is gaining an extraordinary life with deeper meanings.

Again - there is no way for Huawei to be open, despite what they say. That had zero to do with anything. There is no way for any high-tech company to be open. That's just an industrial fact, everywhere. Who owns them has zilch to do with it.

This idea of an onslaught of quality products being withheld by your government is not reasonable.

And the idea of insisting that national security is involved as part of story is never new:

China's U.S. investments soar - Jul. 21, 2010

Chinese Direct Investment in the United States, The Challenges Ahead | Location USA

?Rebalancing? Chinese Investment in the United States | The Heritage Foundation

We call it Occam's Razor - if you're in the plains of the Western US, and you hear hoofbeats behind you but didn't see the animal, don't expect that you missed a zebra sighting - it's more likely to have been a horse.

Same thing here.

The CFIUS recommendation and Huawei's subsequent decision to withdraw is going to affect their smartphone sales here by about 0.000000000%.

PS - I know that vid I posted earlier had the Vietnamese Dong in the title and at the end of the vid, but the second part on the dead deal wasn't bad.
Early, did you see this?

I must not be the only one who sees this as a form of obstruction.

China decries U.S. obstruction after Huawei drops bid | Reuters

I could swear I saw a Zebra!!!

LMAO!!!

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Old February 21st, 2011, 03:01 PM   #21 (permalink)
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Reuter's job is to report what people say.

It in no way implies that what's being said is in any way, shape or form valid.

The zebra you saw was indeed horselike and black and white - but out here, we call that a painted pony.
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Old February 21st, 2011, 03:20 PM   #22 (permalink)
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Perhaps it was a Unicorn. LOL

However, I have a question to ask you. Do YOU believe from all you have experienced, etc., that Huawei poses a 'security threat' to the United States?

If this is truly the case then why is it that they continue to allow other Manufacturers to let Huawei actually make their phones, etc, for them only under different brand names?

This is where I have a problem. It looks very much to me that politics is at play here and pressure is being put on Huawei to keep them at bay.

Just the way I see it hon.

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Old February 21st, 2011, 03:26 PM   #23 (permalink)
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<3 the Occam's Razor reference. And yes, this whole thing really isn't new. It plays out a million different ways in a million different places. In the end it all boils down to the money and/or the power, usually both.
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Old February 21st, 2011, 03:31 PM   #24 (permalink)
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Yes, Yes, Yes...on all counts!

He who has the gold makes the rules.

Ohhh....guess we know who has the gold don't we?
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Old February 21st, 2011, 03:49 PM   #25 (permalink)
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Perhaps it was a Unicorn. LOL

However, I have a question to ask you. Do YOU believe from all you have experienced, etc., that Huawei poses a 'security threat' to the United States?

If this is truly the case then why is it that they continue to allow other Manufacturers to let Huawei actually make their phones, etc, for them only under different brand names?

This is where I have a problem. It looks very much to me that politics is at play here and pressure is being put on Huawei to keep them at bay.

Just the way I see it hon.

Again - I repeat myself - I just don't see why you're buying into this security threat thing at all.

It was China who turned this over to their security people - not the US.

Every word of it is simple propaganda - and it's good propaganda.

So - your next paragraph beginning with "If this is truly the case..." - you're never going to get a reply from me on that - because it was never established as truly the case.

All that's been established is what I've reported - it would have been news if CFIUS - a Treasury arm, not an intelligence arm - had advised differently in this case.

I've been clear, but you seem to think that you can repeat this question and the answer from me will change. It won't.

It didn't happen the way you're insisting that it did.


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Yes, Yes, Yes...on all counts!

He who has the gold makes the rules.

Ohhh....guess we know who has the gold don't we?
China, actually, as do we and a few others.

Old economics was that economies could be built and grow.

Less-old economics was that wealth was a finite source.

New economics is that the old-old economics had it right in the first place.

Under Mao, the idea persisted that wealth was finite. Now - it's known differently.

But whenever they lose a deal, they pull out rhetoric from the 1960s.

Nothing to see here.

BTW - I'm scheduling to move these discussions to a new thread in our Political subforum - I'll post the forwarding link.

The interests here transcend a single phone, and new Ascend owners in this forum need not be subjected to politics just to learn about a great Android phone.
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Old February 21st, 2011, 11:53 PM   #26 (permalink)
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http://bit.ly/ibfyWz

I stand corrected. Cluster configurations are indeed effective for a large class of nuke-related calculations. Already tech under export control to many nations.

Perfectly appropriate for this deal to get higher scrutiny.

Meanwhile, here's another to ponder.

http://www.engadget.com/2011/02/21/huawei-offers-to-build-out-london-underground-cellular-coverage/
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Old February 22nd, 2011, 08:09 AM   #27 (permalink)
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Thanks, EarlyMon, for bringing some sanity to this discussion. As you have stated, (in so many words) this is mostly about posturing and propaganda. Of course any country is going to be territorial. Everything, including the "national security" issue is a bargaining chip, much like the "you sue me, I sue you" culture of the tech firms. As for China claiming obstructionism, of course they're going to say that. Why wouldn't they? Its a gimme. That being said, do you think say Microsoft could go to China and buy a major tech company without the Chinese government raising hell? Of course not. Everyone is going to protect their best interests, and theres nothing wrong with that. You just have to understand the game. You don't start bargaining with your best offer.
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Old February 22nd, 2011, 08:20 AM   #28 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by EarlyMon View Post
http://bit.ly/ibfyWz

I stand corrected. Cluster configurations are indeed effective for a large class of nuke-related calculations. Already tech under export control to many nations.

Perfectly appropriate for this deal to get higher scrutiny.

Meanwhile, here's another to ponder.

Huawei offers to build out London Underground cellular coverage for free -- Engadget
Great links. As I said way back, this had nothing to do with cell phones. Still, with this tech being in the private sector, I find it hard to believe they can keep it out of the Chinese government's hands.
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Old February 22nd, 2011, 08:46 AM   #29 (permalink)
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Yeah Gmash, there is much more going on behind the scenes politically. LOL

As far as Huawei being a security threat, they have opened their doors for the U.S. to come in and check on everything to prove that they are not connected to the Chinese military or the government. The U.S.wanted transparency and Huawei offered it to them and they were still turned down.

It does look like the U.S. is discouraging Chinese investment, as the Chinese Ministry has claimed.



Thing is...who needs who the most?
Who needs who the most is a very interesting question. There are many factors in play. Considering the billions of $ we owe China, they would like us to be able to repay. We buy most of their products, so they need us to keep their economy growing. However, we need them to finance our constant budget deficits. So we have a pretty symbiotic relationship.
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Old February 22nd, 2011, 08:54 AM   #30 (permalink)
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Didn't read all this, but from what I could find searching around (wikipedia) Huawei has been accused by numours companies of IP theft...

Quote:
February 2003 Cisco Systems filed motion for preliminary injunction[40] against Huawei Technologies, quoting the defendant to be "engaged in blatant and systematic copying of Cisco's router technology"
Quote:
Huawei Technologies became the focus of a major intellectual property scandal again later in 2004, when a Huawei employee was examining and photographing circuit boards from a competitor's booth at the SuperComm tradeshow.[
Quote:
In February 2009, the President of Indonesian mobile carrier Excelcomindo Pratama accused a visiting Huawei employee of trying to steal data from his firm

That kind of stuff plus this:

Quote:
n 2008 Military Report to the Congress,[50] Pentagon stated that Huawei "maintains close ties" to Chinese People Liberation Army (PLA)
And i think the government thinks these aren't the type of people that should have access to sensitive government networks.
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Old February 22nd, 2011, 04:02 PM   #31 (permalink)
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is this the same Huawei who fail to release source code and make crappy products?
sounds discriminatable to me
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Old February 22nd, 2011, 04:18 PM   #32 (permalink)
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Great links. As I said way back, this had nothing to do with cell phones. Still, with this tech being in the private sector, I find it hard to believe they can keep it out of the Chinese government's hands.
China could've gotten clustering by getting Project Appleseed, MPI, or Xgrid solutions and a bunch of Macs - or by simply making a Beowulf cluster.

Letting them buy the programmers and intellectual property is an obviously sticky matter.

It wasn't that many decades ago that which CPUs were under export control was the biggest issue, and srsly biznus.

For those unfamiliar with export control:

Export Control Basics (Exporting 101)

Export Control

US State Department - Policy - Directorate of Defense Trade Controls - Embargoed Countries

Quote:
Originally Posted by shadowninty View Post
is this the same Huawei who fail to release source code and make crappy products?
sounds discriminatable to me
Better get your asbestos underoos on! The Huawei Android users are loving their phones and are more than slightly vocal in their support of it.
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Old February 22nd, 2011, 04:22 PM   #33 (permalink)
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*cough* Pulse Mini *cough*
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Old February 24th, 2011, 06:14 PM   #34 (permalink)
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Breaking news:

Huawei says it wants to ease US security fears - World news - Asia-Pacific - China - msnbc.com

Huawei says it wants to ease U.S. Security Fears

By JOE McDONALD
The Associated Press
updated 1 hour 19 minutes ago 2011-02-24T23:50:41
BEIJING — Chinese telecom equipment maker Huawei issued a public invitation Friday to U.S. authorities to investigate the company to dispel what it says are mistaken fears that it is a threat to American national security.
Huawei Technologies Ltd. made the unusual appeal in a letter on its website following its announcement last week it would unwind its purchase of American computer company 3Leaf Systems after it failed to win approval from a U.S. security panel.
"We sincerely hope that the United States government will carry out a formal investigation on any concerns it may have about Huawei," says the letter, signed by Huawei deputy chairman Ken Hu.
The company rejected what it said were untrue allegations that it has ties to China's military, receives improper Chinese government financial support or is a threat to American national security.
"There is no evidence that Huawei has violated any security rules," said the letter.
Huawei is one of the biggest makers of network switching gear and reported sales of $28 billion last year. It has struggled to gain a foothold in the United States against rivals such as Cisco Systems Inc.
Huawei was founded by a former Chinese military officer, Ren Zhengfei, which has fueled speculation about its links to the People's Liberation Army. The company says it is owned by its employees and has no military connection.

Friday's letter said Ren served as a Chinese military engineer before leaving the service in 1983. It said he worked for an oil company before founding Huawei in 1987 with 21,000 yuan (about US$2,500 at that time).
"It is a matter of fact that Mr. Ren is just one of the many CEOs around the world who have served in the military," the letter said. "It is also factual to say that no one has ever offered any evidence that Huawei has been involved in any military technologies at any time."
In 2008, Huawei and an American partner, Bain Capital, withdrew a request for U.S. government approval of a bid to buy 3Com. The companies said they failed to satisfy national security concerns.
Huawei says it failed to apply for approval of the $2 million 3Leaf deal in advance because it bought the company's technology and hired some employees, rather than acquiring the whole company. The Pentagon took the unusual step of demanding that Huawei retroactively apply for a CFIUS review.
At a congressional hearing in Washington last week, National Intelligence Director James Clapper said the case highlighted the importance of ensuring that U.S. industry was aware of potential security threats "when we depend on foreign concerns for key components in any of our telecommunications network."
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Old February 24th, 2011, 06:22 PM   #35 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by shadowninty View Post
is this the same Huawei who fail to release source code and make crappy products?
sounds discriminatable to me
Quote:
Originally Posted by EarlyMon View Post
Better get your asbestos underoos on! The Huawei Android users are loving their phones and are more than slightly vocal in their support of it.
LOL Early!!!! You got that right! Huawei has us all under it's CLOUDS!
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Old February 24th, 2011, 06:30 PM   #36 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EarlyMon View Post
China could've gotten clustering by getting Project Appleseed, MPI, or Xgrid solutions and a bunch of Macs - or by simply making a Beowulf cluster.

Letting them buy the programmers and intellectual property is an obviously sticky matter.

It wasn't that many decades ago that which CPUs were under export control was the biggest issue, and srsly biznus.

For those unfamiliar with export control:

Export Control Basics (Exporting 101)

Export Control

US State Department - Policy - Directorate of Defense Trade Controls - Embargoed Countries



Better get your asbestos underoos on! The Huawei Android users are loving their phones and are more than slightly vocal in their support of it.
Early...I don't have any problem with the CFIUS not approving of the acquisition based on import/export/foreign investment rules. What I DO have a problem with is the reason they gave for their rejection of the Huawei 3Leaf deal.

To announce that the reason is because they feel 'Huawei' is a threat to U.S. Security because the founder was a former officer in the People's Liberation Army or because they 'suspect' that Huawei is funded by the Chinese government isn't acceptable IMO.

I would be the last one to want to see our homeland jeopardized but let's get real. With all the technological devices being made and imported from China and other places in the world...don't you think this is a bit overkill?

Maybe I should start worrying that I'm gonna be arrested and thrown in Gitmo for using a Huawei handset.



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Old February 24th, 2011, 06:41 PM   #37 (permalink)
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I agree
GITMO FOR ALL, (miniature American flags for others
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Old February 24th, 2011, 07:05 PM   #38 (permalink)
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I agree
GITMO FOR ALL, (miniature American flags for others
Where's the cake?

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Old February 24th, 2011, 07:09 PM   #39 (permalink)
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Where's the cake?

my friends ate it
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Old February 24th, 2011, 09:55 PM   #40 (permalink)
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https://news.fidelity.com/news/news.jhtml?articleid=201102241910RTRSNEWSCOMBINED_ N24297063_1&IMG=N&cat=default&ccsource=rss-default

Looks like Huawei is serious about clearing it's name:


Huawei calls on U.S. government to investigate it

REUTERS — 7:11 PM ET 02/24/11

* Huawei says U.S. should probe any doubts about it
* Vows to do "anything" U.S. govt wants in a probe
* Says misperceptions have hurt its business
* Says no proof of military technology involvement

By Sinead Carew

NEW YORK, Feb 24 (Reuters) - China's Huawei Technologies Co [HWT.UL] has challenged the United States to launch a formal investigation into its business, in an attempt by one of the world's largest telecommunications equipment makers to clear its name from allegations that have blocked U.S. deals.

The highly unusual call follows the outcome of a recent U.S. government foreign investment review that is forcing Huawei to sell assets it bought from 3Leaf, a small U.S. company. Three years ago, Huawei had to pull back from a bigger proposed investment in 3Com, in similar circumstances.

The company said it has been the victim of misperceptions about its relationship with the Chinese military because its founder, Ren Zhengfei, served in the People's Liberation Army until 1983.

Huawei said the U.S. should investigate any doubts it has so that it can reach an accurate conclusion.

"We're literally willing to do anything the government might ask to give them visibility," said Bill Plummer, Huawei's U.S.-based vice president for external affairs. "We're open to any type of investigation or audit or review that they feel would address whatever concerns they have."
Huawei said its ability to do business in the United States has been hurt significantly in the past 10 years by unproven allegations. As well as problems it had with acquisitions, U.S. Republican lawmakers also raised national security concerns about Huawei's bid to supply wireless network equipment to Sprint Nextel Corp (Symbol : S) last year. [ID:nN24257645]
But the company said nobody had proven any links between its business and military technology.

"No one has ever offered any evidence that Huawei has been involved in any military technologies at any time," the company said in an open letter it posted on its website on Thursday.

Huawei has made huge strides in recent years in the wireless network equipment market, where it has overtaken big players such as Alcatel-Lucent (Symbol : ALU) .
Analysts say it is roughly neck-and-neck with Nokia Siemens Networks (NSN), for second place in that market which is led by Sweden's Ericsson .

Besides the military question, Huawei said other misperceptions relate to disputes over intellectual property rights, financial backing from the Chinese government and concerns it could use its technology to steal confidential information or launch attacks on U.S. networks.
But the company said there was no evidence it "has violated any security rules."
Huawei said that since it was founded in 1987, it has respected intellectual property rights. For example it has paid San Diego-based Qualcomm (Symbol : QCOM)$600 million in fees for use of its technology over the years, it said. The company also noted that Cisco Systems (Symbol : CSCO) withdrew a lawsuit against Huawei over an alleged intellectual property rights infringement.

Huawei itself recently filed a U.S. lawsuit against Motorola Solutions (Symbol : MSI) , a long-standing Huawei partner, as it sought to prevent Motorola from transferring trade secrets to Nokia Siemens, a venture of Nokia and Siemens , through assets Motorola is selling to NSN.

China's regulators have yet to give the go-ahead for Motorola's proposed $1.2 billion sale of its network gear unit to NSN. [ID:nN22104336]

As for financial backing by the Chinese government, Huawei said it receives government support in the same way that the U.S government offers support such as tax incentives to U.S. companies. It said it received only $89.75 million of support from the Chinese government in 2010.

The U.S. Treasury Department would not comment directly on the Huawei letter but a spokeswoman insisted that the United States remains receptive to Chinese investment.
The company did not give specifics on what information it would offer U.S. authorities in any investigation.

Plummer said it was difficult to cite specific information the company is willing to offer since it only knows about U.S. concerns "on a surface level." (Reporting by Sinead Carew; editing by Andre Grenon, Martin Howell)
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Old February 24th, 2011, 10:23 PM   #41 (permalink)
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Just an interesting observation. LOL
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Old February 24th, 2011, 10:24 PM   #42 (permalink)
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I've read Huawei's claims for the rejection.

I've yet to read the CFIUS report. Until then, I won't assume claims are necessarily facts.

And I'll repeat, Huawei's invitation to disclose is unpossible and anything unpossible is propaganda.
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Old February 24th, 2011, 10:28 PM   #43 (permalink)
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I've read Huawei's claims for the rejection.

I've yet to read the CFIUS report. Until then, I won't assume claims are necessarily facts.

And I'll repeat, Huawei's invitation to disclose is unpossible and anything unpossible is propaganda.
If that's the case do you think that Huawei is doing this for publicity and name recognition?

What do they have to gain by inviting the U.S. to do something that would be 'unpossible'?

They've even invited audits, etc. What more can a company do to provide transparency?
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Old February 24th, 2011, 10:41 PM   #44 (permalink)
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What they have to gain is the aim of all propaganda: sympathy.

And the whole transparency thing is part of the propaganda.

No high tech manufacturer operates without barriers against industrial espionage, always protected by their respective governments.

The claimed transparency is and will be unpossible.

And it only matters in a world where propaganda equals fact.

Mother Teresa could be CEO of Huawei and the CFIUS decision would have been the same.
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Old February 24th, 2011, 10:51 PM   #45 (permalink)
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Well, you would think the U.S. would at least send a team of investigators over there to enjoy some of that world renowned Chinese hospitality.

It doesn't sound like Huawei is going to let it drop.

Oh and btw...I do agree with you about all the propaganda. But the facts are it works both ways.

I found it very interesting how much Huawei has paid to Qualcomm in fees over the years. 600 Million! That's a tidy little sum. :P

It kinda makes one wonder....ahhhh but that's another topic for another time and 'place'.

I'll be interested in your continued thoughts as this unfolds........
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Old February 25th, 2011, 09:01 AM   #46 (permalink)
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Oh and btw...I do agree with you about all the propaganda. But the facts are it works both ways.
A point I would not argue.

I've only argued that transparency is unpossible. So long as a company can be nationalized by its government - a possibility anywhere - then transparency before the fact is a side show.

Quote:
I found it very interesting how much Huawei has paid to Qualcomm in fees over the years. 600 Million! That's a tidy little sum. :P

It kinda makes one wonder....ahhhh but that's another topic for another time and 'place'.
Qualcomm is ostensibly an American company, so let's discuss it here.

So what it is you wonder? Are you amazed they got off so cheaply?
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Old February 25th, 2011, 11:02 AM   #47 (permalink)
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Huewai and ZTE just order 100 million MSM7227's and hack together phones
Qualcomm would make little percentage profit
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Old February 25th, 2011, 12:58 PM   #48 (permalink)
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I have to come back to this when I return on Monday. I'm getting ready to head for the mountains to do some 4 wheeling this weekend. But I look forward to jumping back into the discussion when I get home. Have a great one!
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Old February 25th, 2011, 01:11 PM   #49 (permalink)
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Rubber side down, shiney side up, repeat until mud covered.
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Old February 25th, 2011, 01:21 PM   #50 (permalink)
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Rubber side down, shiney side up, repeat until mud covered.
LOL!!!! I try to keep the rubber side down but it's hard sometimes! hahaha I got the mud part down pat! LOL (They still have snow on the ground!)
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