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Old January 3rd, 2010, 03:46 PM   #1 (permalink)
Mr. Logic Pants
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Default Our (not so) Great president.

(This is a read, but something that is worth your time, if you are an American, and maybe even if your not)


Recently I just read the NextElect app post, and to keep that thread clean, I am making this one. Try not to flame, and keep it intelligent. Everyone is entitled to thier opinion, and everyone is also entitled to disagree.

So, anyway. Let's start with our previous president Mr. GWB. Alot of people blame him for the economy problems yada yada. The finger needs to be pointed at Bill Clinton. For it is he and his administration that caused this economic failure. How do you ask? Through his "everyone should own a home" policies, he stronghanded banks into giving loans to people who shouldn't have gotten them in the first place. I know someone who 5 years ago got a 200k home loan making 7/hr with no down payment. Plain stupid. And it is exactly that, that made the economy collapse. With all these people buying homes and couldn't really afford them caused an artificial increase in demand, resulting in an artificial boom and price increase on homes, that were only really worth a fraction of what was paid. Now what happens when all these people, cant afford to make thier payments? Well the housing market gets oversaturated and the market plummits. Thats exactly what happened.

Now how the banks failed:

What happens when you loan out billions of dollars for properties that are only worth millions? And what happens when the consumers stop sending in checks for those loans? Simple right? You foreclose, sell the house and get your money back. Easy. Not really. The house they loaned 400k for is now only worth 180k, so the banks lose thier hats foreclosing, plus no-one is buying the houses, and there is a supply to demand ratio that makes real estate agents cringe. So now the bank is stuck with properties they cant sell, AND have to pay taxes on. The banks collapse. The banks you see buying up other banks were the few who didn't succomb to the Clinton administration and were smart about who they lent money too. They are in great shape.

Why the banks failures and housing market crash killed the economy:

People get scared easy. When they saw this happening, people lined up to pull their money out of banks and investments causing more bank failure and the stock market to plummit. Its a huge snowball affect. With companies losing money, and people holding on to their money more tightly, companies need to make cutbacks to stay alive, so here come the layoffs. Less circulation leads to more of the same. Now people are out of jobs, all because of Bill Clinton and his administration, allowing people who cannot afford homes buy them.

Summary:

This is undeniable fact. It cannot be disputed. Don't even try, it's like arguing with gravity. GWB in fact did not have anything to do with the economy collapse, it was all Bill Clinton and his team.

Why I don't like Barack Obama, his policies, and the democratic party in general:

In Baracks first 100 days, he spent more than GWB did his entire time in office. He doubled the welfare payout, enabling lazy drains of society to sit at home, be non-productive, and collect money. Now I may or may not receive alot of flaming for this, but hear me out. I can't stand lazy people. I cannot stand freeloaders. Like it or not, we live in a capitalist society, and I wouldnt have it any other way. People should not live for free. Like it or not, medical care is not a right. It is a privilege. Doctors go to school for more than a quarter of their lives, and take on hundreds of thousands of dollars in loans. They devote their lives to it, and they deserve the payout in the end. It is said doctors don't really begin to profit from their profession until in their mid 40's. Wow. Free healthcare would ruin that, as the government cannot afford to pay everyones doctor bill. Doctors will go to other countries. American healthcare will fail. Would you randomly pick up the check for someones steak dinner? Someone you don't know? Probably not. Then why should the productive people, people who try, people who want to be something, pay someone else's doctor bill b/c they cannot afford it for whatever reason it is. Now don't get me wrong, healthcare reform is needed, but not the way Obama wants it.

Is Obama a socialist?

Quote:
Posted: October 18, 2008
1:00 am Eastern

2009
Socialism, according to Karl Marx, is the transition between capitalism and communism. To achieve communism, Marx says, there must be continuing revolution in which the fundamental principal is: The end justifies the means.

For more than half a century, capitalism in the United States has taken a beating from the socialist revolution. Despite the best efforts of conservatives since the Roosevelt era, socialists have made great strides toward converting the nation to socialism. Apparently, the majority of Americans either fail to recognize the transition, or welcome it. The enthusiastic support for Barack Obama, especially among young people, is abundant evidence.

Obama has declared that he believes every person has a "right" to health care. The Socialist Party USA believes every person has a "right" to health care.

Obama believes that labor unions should be allowed to organize without a secret ballot. The Socialist Party USA calls for unions to be recognized without a secret ballot. (Hear Obama's words here.)

The Socialist Party USA recognizes the "right" of adequate housing for everyone. Obama trained ACORN (Association of Community Organizations for Reform Now) workers to secure mortgages for unqualified people in sufficient numbers to collapse the housing and home-financing industries.

(Column continues below)






The Socialist Party USA believes that "capitalism is fundamentally incompatible" with socialism. For years, Obama worked in Chicago through the Annenberg Challenge, along with Bill Ayers, to funnel more than $50 million to anti-capitalist education projects. In November 2006, Ayers traveled to Venezuela to speak at Hugo Chavez's Education Forum where he railed against "the failings of capitalist education," and praised the "Bolivarian Revolution and the profound reforms in education made by Hugo Chavez."

The Socialist Party USA believes in open borders and six-months residency as the only requirement for U.S. citizenship. Obama marched with illegal aliens in Chicago in support of "comprehensive" immigration reform. Listen to Obama's promises to La Raza in 2007.

The Socialist Party USA calls for an immediate withdrawal from Iraq. Obama says, "I will end this war," with never a reference to "winning" or "victory."

The Socialist Party USA calls for the "unconditional disarmament" by the United States. Obama has promised to dramatically reduce defense spending. Listen to his words here.

The Socialist Party USA calls for a "livable guaranteed annual income." Obama trained ACORN members to conduct "Living Wage" campaigns in cities around the country.

The Socialist Party USA calls for a "steeply graduated" tax policy to redistribute wealth. Obama has promised to increase the tax burden on the rich to redistribute wealth to the poor. He revealed his philosophy when answering a question from Joe the plumber, who complained that he was being taxed for his success. Obama said:

It's not that I want to punish your success. I just want to make sure that everybody who is behind you, that they've got a chance for success too. My attitude is that if the economy's good for folks from the bottom up, it's gonna be good for everybody. I think when you spread the wealth around, it's good for everybody.
This list of comparisons could be quite long. This is sufficient to reveal an unmistakable similarity between Obama's political beliefs and the beliefs of the Socialist Party USA. The tragedy is that Obama's supporters don't care. In fact, many of his supporters are delighted that he promises to usher in a new era of socialism, and push the memory of capitalism further into history.

Socialists, who are in perpetual revolution, who believe that the end justifies the means, have worked through educational institutions, non-government organizations such as ACORN and by electing socialists to public office to silence teaching the virtues of free enterprise, capitalism, private property, individual responsibility and personal achievement. For nearly two generations, students have been fed a steady diet of socialism under a variety of disguises, including Outcome Based Education, No Child Left Behind, School-to-Work and a host of other "feel good" slogans.

Students and young adults no longer know why capitalism is better than socialism. Like Obama, young people really believe that when government redistributes wealth, "it's good for everybody." They do not realize that wealth redistribution is no substitute for wealth creation. They are never taught that the only way to create wealth is for an individual to combine his energy and intellect with resources to produce a product that improves his life, or for which someone else is willing to pay.

Private property, the accumulation of personal prosperity and individual achievement are anathema to socialism. Socialism sees the individual as nothing more than a cog in a government-run machine designed to ensure equity for all.

Capitalism seeks prosperity; socialism seeks equity. Freedom increases as prosperity increases. In a socialist system, there can be neither.
Original article here, including working links to other articles

Is Obama a socialist?

If you want to be a communist, go live in China. There is a revolution coming... which side are you on?


How we can fix this without a civil rebellion:

Our freedoms are slowly being washed away. The right to bear arms, freedom of speech, all the stuff our ancestors fought for, freedom from tyranny. Those are the same reasons we fought off England so many years ago. I don't like the Democrats, nor the Republicans. They are both too far off to the Right and Left. We need a third party. A neutral party, truly by the people for the people. We are allowing our government to run our lives. Traffic cameras, phone taps and email monitoring without warrants are all examples of this. We need to change who is in power. We need REAL change. Obama promised to be transparent, yet his first days in office he ran through a 1000 some page act through congress through closed doors practically overnight. And it was never published. How exactly is that transparency?

Well, comment away.

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Old January 3rd, 2010, 04:18 PM   #2 (permalink)
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I completely agree, that people that don't work should not receive money from the government.

BTW, "There are 10 types of people, those who understand binary, and those who don't." made me laugh really hard... after I got it.
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Old January 3rd, 2010, 04:53 PM   #3 (permalink)
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I completely agree, that people that don't work should not receive money from the government.

BTW, "There are 10 types of people, those who understand binary, and those who don't." made me laugh really hard... after I got it.
Although like everything else, there are certain exceptions to the rule:

i.e. People who cannot properly function in society due to disability or illness.
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Old January 3rd, 2010, 05:05 PM   #4 (permalink)
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Although like everything else, there are certain exceptions to the rule:

i.e. People who cannot properly function in society due to disability or illness.
Yea, I forgot to mention that. Do you watch the O'Reilly Factor by the way? Because, it is an interesting show for anyone who is interested in politics.
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Old January 3rd, 2010, 05:30 PM   #5 (permalink)
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I prefer not to watch large media ran programs as they are often biased, and i often have to turn them off in disgust anyway.
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Old January 3rd, 2010, 05:47 PM   #6 (permalink)
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I prefer not to watch large media ran programs as they are often biased, and i often have to turn them off in disgust anyway.
I definitely don't agree with everything Oreily says, especially his debate with Richard Dawkins about god, but the show is sometimes interesting to watch as it informs me of events that I would otherwise not have known about.
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Old January 3rd, 2010, 06:53 PM   #7 (permalink)
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My hat is off to ya bud.. at least some people on this earth still have some common sense and see what shit really is instead of this media hyped "savior" image the media has given this asshole.. the democrats are going to be very surprised when they all get voted out very soon. they promised this "change" crap and now they see what kind of change they really meant and they will not stand for it.

worst part is the democrats are passing bills and they actually have clauses in them that the bills cannot be removed lol
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Old January 3rd, 2010, 07:01 PM   #8 (permalink)
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woaw woaw woaw, that's way too much digging. Everything that's wrong with our economy is the republicans fault and everything right is the democrats fault....


Get real people they are in bed together. It's a bipartisan approach to duping the Americans and getting rich. They don't give a flying turd about what ails us as long as they get re-elected so they can continue the money train.

Though Pelosi scares the poop outta me, what a witch.
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Old January 3rd, 2010, 07:06 PM   #9 (permalink)
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Though Pelosi scares the poop outta me, what a witch.
i dont wish death on anybody but she needs to die in a fire
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Old January 3rd, 2010, 07:08 PM   #10 (permalink)
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My hat is off to ya bud.. at least some people on this earth still have some common sense and see what shit really is instead of this media hyped "savior" image the media has given this asshole.. the democrats are going to be very surprised when they all get voted out very soon. they promised this "change" crap and now they see what kind of change they really meant and they will not stand for it.

worst part is the democrats are passing bills and they actually have clauses in them that the bills cannot be removed lol
Yeah, so far, Osama isn't doing a very good job... probably from lack of experience.
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Old January 3rd, 2010, 07:10 PM   #11 (permalink)
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Iowa you baffle me. You're name is Iowa but you're from Chicago. Iowa has little to do with Chicago other then leaning liberal, yet you are conservative?
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Old January 3rd, 2010, 07:10 PM   #12 (permalink)
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i dont wish death on anybody but she needs to die in a fire
+1
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Old January 3rd, 2010, 07:12 PM   #13 (permalink)
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Since I was told not to argue against the *opinions* because they are indeed undeniable *facts* I won't waste much time with it.

I disagree. And that's my fact.

done
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Old January 3rd, 2010, 07:17 PM   #14 (permalink)
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Since I was told not to argue against the *opinions* because they are indeed undeniable *facts* I won't waste much time with it.

I disagree. And that's my fact.

done
lol
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Old January 3rd, 2010, 07:53 PM   #15 (permalink)
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woaw woaw woaw, that's way too much digging. Everything that's wrong with our economy is the republicans fault and everything right is the democrats fault....


Get real people they are in bed together. It's a bipartisan approach to duping the Americans and getting rich. They don't give a flying turd about what ails us as long as they get re-elected so they can continue the money train.

Though Pelosi scares the poop outta me, what a witch.
I would have to agree with this. I am a conservative, not republican, democrat or anything else (when it comes to politics) and I don't see much from either party that impresses me. Democrats are just plain dreadful; Obama has fallen more in approval rating in his first year than any president in modern history and Congress they're still tracking in the 20's(%). Obviously I am not the only one who feels negatively about them.

On the Republican side, they are guilty (not as much as Dems, though) of massive spending, support for amnesty of illegal aliens, and some even support the lie of "global warming". Sure, there are a few real conservatives wandering about but the Rep party is controlled by Washington beltway types, not REAL conservatives.

Nope, I'm not happy and I don't see it getting better anytime soon. I'd love to see everyone employed, living comfortable and happily, but I do not support government providing everything for everyone and I never will. If you want things in this nation, get off your butt and work for it like I and many others do every day. 'Personal responsibility' are not just words, they mean mean something.

But hey, that's just me.
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Old January 3rd, 2010, 09:24 PM   #16 (permalink)
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Since I was told not to argue against the *opinions* because they are indeed undeniable *facts* I won't waste much time with it.

I disagree. And that's my fact.

done
It is not opinion, it is fact. You cannot deny it. Its already written in the history books.

And yes I do believe the Reb/Dems work together, hence my idea of a third party separate from them.

And my name is 'IOWA' because when I was younger I was very into Slipknot, and they are from IOWA, and they released an album entitled IOWA, it became my nickname and kinda stuck with me.


And this reminds me of a saying:

If your not liberal/democrat in your 20's you have no heart. If your not conservative/republican in your 40's you have no brain. Funny part is, I'm in my 20's. I suppose educated people see which way is better =D
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Old January 3rd, 2010, 09:32 PM   #17 (permalink)
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Here's a plan I fully support.

Its the Robin Williams Plan!

Robin Williams, wearing a shirt that says, 'I love New York ' in Arabic. You gotta love Robin Williams.... Even if he's nuts! Leave it to Robin Williams to come up with the perfect plan. What we need now is for our UN Ambassador to stand up and repeat this message.
Robin Williams' plan...(Hard to argue with this logic!)
'I see a lot of people yelling for peace, but I have not heard of a plan for peace. So, here's one plan.'
1) 'The US will apologize to the world for our 'interference' in their affairs, past & present. You know, Hitler, Mussolini, Stalin, Tojo, Noriega, Milosevic, Hussein, and the rest of those 'good 'ole' boys', we will never 'interfere' again.
2) We will withdraw our troops from all over the world, starting with Germany, South Korea, the Middle East, and the Philippines. They don't want us there. We would station troops at our borders. No one allowed sneaking through holes in the fence.
3) All illegal aliens have 90 days to get their affairs together and leave. We'll give them a free trip home. After 90 days, the remainder will be gathered up and deported immediately, regardless of whom or where they are. They're illegal!!! France will welcome them.
4) All future visitors will be thoroughly checked and limited to 90 days, unless given a special permit!!!! No one from a terrorist nation will be allowed in. If you don't like it there, change it yourself and don't hide here. Asylum would never be available to anyone. We don't need any more cab drivers or 7-11 cashiers.
5) No foreign 'students' over age 21. The older ones are the bombers. If they don't attend classes, they get a 'D' and it's back home, baby.
6) The U.S. will make a strong effort to become self-sufficient energy wise. This will include developing nonpolluting sources of energy but will require a temporary drilling of oil in the Alaskan wilderness. The caribou will have to cope for a while.
7) Offer Saudi Arabia and other oil producing countries $10 a barrel for their oil. If they don't like it, we go someplace else. They can go somewhere else to sell their production. (About a week of the wells filling up the storage sites would be enough.)
8) If there is a famine or other natural catastrophe in the world, we will not 'interfere.' They can pray to Allah or whomever, for seeds, rain, cement, or whatever they need. Besides most of what we give them is stolen or given to the army. The people who need it most get very little, if anything.
9) Ship the UN Headquarters to an isolated island someplace. We don't need the spies and fair weather friends here. Besides, the building would make a good homeless shelter or lockup for illegal aliens.
10) All Americans must go to charm and beauty school. That way, no one can call us 'Ugly Americans' any longer. The Language we speak is ENGLISH...learn it...or LEAVE.... Now, isn't that a winner of a plan?
'The Statue of Liberty is no longer saying 'Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses.' She's got a baseball bat and she's yelling, 'You want a piece of me?'
If you agree with the above, forward it to friends... If not, and I would be amazed, DELETE it!!

And this is relevant, I actually run a facebook group just for this purpose.

Take back our country! Take Back Our JOBS! Protect the Consitution! | Facebook
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Old January 3rd, 2010, 10:56 PM   #18 (permalink)
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It is not opinion, it is fact. You cannot deny it. Its already written in the history books.
lol which history book is that? I doubt you've ever read one.

agree on one thing, we need a 3rd party. need something more than the single party system now in place.

bye bye
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Old January 3rd, 2010, 11:49 PM   #19 (permalink)
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And this reminds me of a saying:

If your not liberal/democrat in your 20's you have no heart. If your not conservative/republican in your 40's you have no brain. Funny part is, I'm in my 20's. I suppose educated people see which way is better =D
I suppose the saying youth is wasted on the young can be twisted to say wisdom is wasted on the old?
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Old January 4th, 2010, 02:49 AM   #20 (permalink)
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lol which history book is that? I doubt you've ever read one.

agree on one thing, we need a 3rd party. need something more than the single party system now in place.

bye bye

Ok then. Besides your denial of the truth, what exactly, I ask you, is not fact of what I have said?

Quote:
I suppose the saying youth is wasted on the young can be twisted to say wisdom is wasted on the old?
Yet another example of backing nothing with facts, and taking something way out of context. Is that the best you can do?
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Old January 4th, 2010, 06:06 AM   #21 (permalink)
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Ok then. Besides your denial of the truth, what exactly, I ask you, is not fact of what I have said?
quoting professional neocon rhetoric doesn't make fact. I'm not saying that the dems are right either. After all it is a one party system with two colored shirt teams fighting for your money and limited attention.

Quote:
Yet another example of backing nothing with facts, and taking something way out of context. Is that the best you can do?
I'll go out on a limb and call this whole thread way out of context. The Lounge is indeed for other than Android but not exactly where the world will be saved and certainly not by you.

"I reject your reality and substitute my own"
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Old January 4th, 2010, 07:29 AM   #22 (permalink)
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as much lack of appreciation as I have for anybody in either party, you have to give it to the Dems for winning an election on two simple words "hope" and "change". How We the People fell for that timeless political cliche is completely beyond understanding.

A third party is definately the way to go, right now we have the socialist party and the socialist light (or lite if you prefer) party. About the only notable in office official in politics right now who actually sticks to his princibles is Lieberman...at least that was the case until the dems went after his wife for not playing ball on the new health care entitlement.

But, like the old saying goes, "the country needs to put itself through a Carter before realizing that it needs a Reagan"
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Old January 4th, 2010, 12:34 PM   #23 (permalink)
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Ever notice how when people don't understand a phenomenon they put some unrealistic label on it?
Osama? Socialist? Savior?

Clearly you don't understand what is going on here. Our country has a number of very large issues that it needs to deal with. Health Care costs, Education, Energy policy, and the national debt to name a few. For the last several presidencies these issues have been ignored. Obama has stated a clear intent to address these issues. That is the appeal. No doubt it will be done imperfectly, but he is willing to try.

The electorate doesn't believe that Obama is any sort of "savior" and the electorate doesn't want "socialism" (despite for some very backwards opportunists, there is zero reason to question his faith). The case has been made that we have problems to address and opportunities to pursue. The electorate agrees with this case.
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Old January 4th, 2010, 12:49 PM   #24 (permalink)
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But, like the old saying goes, "the country needs to put itself through a Carter before realizing that it needs a Reagan"
I am amazed at how effectively Reagan pulled the wool over the conservatives eyes.

Reagan is given credit for ending the cold war, when it was effectively over before he took office.
Reagan started the policy of raiding the SS trust fund
Reagan oversaw the sale of arm to our enemies (and got to duck the charge because he either lied or was so unfit for office that he no longer remembered what he did from day to day --take your pick)
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Old January 4th, 2010, 01:03 PM   #25 (permalink)
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Monkey, first, props, most Obama supporters can't reply to critisism without using 6-12 "F" bombs in their first sentence, so thanks.

Osama, yes, is a juvenile personal attack on the man that I don't support.

Savior, indeed, that is exactly how the mainstream media painted the man leading up to the election. Everybody was so caught up in the historicalness of his election, the fact that he had no experience in doing anything meaningful (besides getting free money from the government for minorities as a "community organizer") took a back seat to the facts. He voted simply "present" countless times to avoid having to take any responsibility one way or the other on his record during his short time in the US Senate.

Socialist, spreading the wealth around is paraphrasing the socialist mantra. In one of the rare instances where he was caught without a teleprompter to read from, saying he wanted to "spread the wealth around a little" was his answer. Cap and trade, this new health care monstrosity, bailouts, and countless other government expansions are all socialistic in nature. Denying that is like trying to deny a tree is made of wood.

That he wants to tackle these issues is not what is up for debate, it is HOW he is going after them that leave conservatives (and indeed most of the nation) in a cold sweat. If the media had done their jobs and actually questioned the man and revealed a little more of his background pre-election, he never would have even gotten past Hilary.
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Old January 4th, 2010, 02:46 PM   #26 (permalink)
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That he wants to tackle the issues is his appeal. Hillary did not as effectively convey a sincere desire (though to me the problem was that she was even more polarizing than Obama may be now). Obama's inexperience was fully portrayed, but it is hard to put in perspective after the bar for experience was already lowered with the previous president (List of Governors of Texas - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia).

Furthermore, he has taken action. Not all of it for the best, but based on the same advice as that received by his predecessor (my read has been that most economists suggest that in times of recession, the gov has to inject money. The problem is always that they don't have the will to stop). And probably in a better form that his predecessor did. Why borrow money from China, just to give it to people to spend at Walmart so that the money can go back to China?

RE: Socialism - public schools, public roads/highways, public libraries, public water/sewers, public parks, police, fire brigades, and we are still the most capitalistic country in the world. Some form of change to the way health care works will not change that fact.
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Old January 4th, 2010, 03:17 PM   #27 (permalink)
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woaw woaw woaw, that's way too much digging. Everything that's wrong with our economy is the republicans fault and everything right is the democrats fault....


Get real people they are in bed together. It's a bipartisan approach to duping the Americans and getting rich. They don't give a flying turd about what ails us as long as they get re-elected so they can continue the money train.

Though Pelosi scares the poop outta me, what a witch.
This is really the only accurate comment on the entire tread. Its all BS, none of them give a flying %$#* about anything but filling there pockets. What a joke. The Dems, reps, they are all in bed together and its one big scam to suck the public dry.
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Old January 4th, 2010, 03:24 PM   #28 (permalink)
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IOWA - at the moment you have in the USA a 3rd World health system. How? You may well ask - it's because the well off and well paid are OK and can afford health care but the poor and low paid can go to hell. What made the poor and low paid so undeserving? You REALLY need to do something about that in your country. Obama is making an attempt to fix this and for that he's called a communist. Ridiculous! Some have even gone so far as to call him evil. Evil is denying the poor basic human rights just because they are poor.

As for welfare - I don't defend those that refuse to work - but in an economy such as the one we (and you) have now - there are millions who WANT to work but are unable to find suitable employment. Please don't call these people lazy - they're not.

The financial crisis is world wide - Clinton did not force the UK banks (or those4 of any other non USA country) to lend irresposibly. The banks did this all by themselves out of greed.

Yes - I am a capitalist - one with a conscience. Where people can pay thier way then they certainly should but there are those less fortunate than us through no fault of thier own.

As for the genuinely lazy - I agree they should get what's coming to them.
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Old January 4th, 2010, 03:40 PM   #29 (permalink)
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You nailed it, Iowa. Well done! You're a great American, a true patriot.

As a (holy) ghost writer for some conservative/Christian leaders, it was my job to check out Mr. O during the presidential campaign. What I discovered made my blood run cold. Hope and change? The "hope" is for those who long for a rebirth of communism after the fall of the USSR. The "change" is from a constitutional Republic to a Marxist dictatorship. And disgruntled voters, brainwashed from daily doses of biased misinformation by leftist mainstream media that call bad good and good bad, swallowed it hook, line and sinker.

It's a perfect storm that must be making Lennin do handsprings in his grave! He would say it's a "God deal" miracle, except that before standing in front of his maker he didn't believe in that dusty old book of legends and old wives tales, you know -- the Bible -- which predicts something like this will happen before the end comes. 2012 anyone?

Hide and watch -- or campaign and vote for people in November who promise to listen to the people supposedly represent. Knowing, though, that "we the people" hold the power at the ballot box, many are predicting some, uh, crisis will force martial law, which "for the time being" understandably will postpone Senate and House elections and keep the status que in the hands of totalitarian turncoats intent on tyranny. But, hey, I love my HTC Hero!
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Old January 4th, 2010, 03:51 PM   #30 (permalink)
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Unfortunately I feel it's necessary to preface this with this note clearly stating these are my opinions only, regardless of how strongly worded certain things may be. Take them as that and nothing more.



I'm totally numb to our "leaders" and their actions. If you think that Obama or the democrats are ruining the country, or if you think that Bush and the republicans ruined the country, but refuse to see any evil on your preferred side, then there is a problem. I'm no conspiracy nut, don't get me wrong, but it's got to be pretty clear by now to anybody with half of a brain that our leaders either don't care to do anything for the regular American people, or simply can't because lobbyists basically run everything. The presidential election is a joke. It's a game. It gets people all riled up over two candidates (2, really? Give me some choices for God's sake) that paint themselves as opposites, but really are going to enact a hell of a lot of the same policies and not bring any drastic changes to your lives. I haven't seen a candidate that I genuinely liked run for the presidential office in my lifetime. The ones who are free thinkers, the ones with the good ideas - republican or democrat, doesn't matter - never make it through the primaries.

Media is ridiculous and honestly can't be trusted anymore. Whether a media outlet is on the left or right is irrelevant, they're all just there for entertainment. The left/right schism in this country is disgusting. The fact that such a large majority of people are willing to align themselves to one of only two parties - I believe - strongly illustrates the simplistic, weak-minded attitude we've come to accept in this country. A lot of Democrats ate up Obama's "hope" crap like they'd been starved for months. They spent years criticizing Bush only to find out that their precious president is following in his footsteps in plenty of ways, and this "hope and change" he spoke of was completely hollow. I feel like a lot of college kids are vastly disappointed that we're not living in some radically different world right now. Republicans are eating up the right wing media's inane criticisms of the president in the same way. Some people actually take Glen Beck seriously - this terrifies me. When there's plenty of intelligent, viable criticism that should not be ignored, the media wingnuts are driving their followers into a hateful frenzy devoid of critical thinking.

Please don't get me wrong, I am genuinely happy and thankful to live in this country, but I can't vote for any of these loser clones that they keep trying to shove down my throat. In a very basic way, they're all the same. My interests as a regular, working middle class American are never going to be seriously considered. They spend far too much time bickering and mudslinging over every moronic policy under the sun. Perfect example - is Obama a socialist!? Who the hell cares? Do people even realize how many things in our country are already socialized? We're essentially the only rich democratic country in the world that doesn't provide any sort of health care assistance. The democratic solution is awful. It's not at all up to par with what other countries have implemented. What we have going through right now is basically just going to put more money in insurance companies' pockets, because we're throwing them however many millions of new customers. Public option is out (it was never well put together in the first place) and it's entirely possible that you may actually be fined for not purchasing health care. Way to go democrats, I can see you really have my health in mind.

Go to some of the other countries and see if people are going bankrupt regularly thanks to health care costs. They're not. Do they yell about socialized medical care being bad? I seriously doubt it, because all it's really doing is making their lives better. They're not wasting time getting all up in arms over some anti-socialism "principle" that in reality doesn't make any difference. Oh wait, it does make a difference. We're supposedly the most advanced, free and powerful country in the world, yet our health care quality is abysmal. That's the only thing that matters to me, not some BS socialism/capitalism argument. I'm pretty sure we've just been convinced that pure capitalism is tantamount to democracy and freedom. Completely silly if you ask me. Look at what happened thanks to our wonderful pure capitalist economy. The greedy cheaters got rich and the hard-working got screwed. Now the hard-working are getting more screwed while we "fix" it (ironically by helping to keep the idiots afloat that caused it all), and the rich are just as rich. Meanwhile, they still have all the influence they've ever had over which laws succeed and which laws fail.

I guess I'm very pessimistic when it comes to politicians. Like it or not though, you have to admit that we're not as democratic as we are led to believe. The health care predicament is not the only example, but it's a great one. The money that runs the great majority of our politicians has succeeded in what they set out to do. I felt like I, as a citizen, have absolutely no control over whether we have health care reform, and if we do, how it is designed. This applies to just about everything. I have no control over a lot of substantial issues, because if there's a big business interest (and there almost always is) mine is rendered moot. It doesn't matter which fool I vote for. They're not going to do most of the things they say they'll do anyways. My interest is far in the back of their minds. If it doesn't mirror the interest of some greedy billionaire company, then it doesn't get serious consideration, but they're more than willing to pretend they're helping me out and shout crap through their news outlets.

I haven't voted for a president in a while, and my life is not drastically different because of it. I just go with the flow and live as best I can. If the day comes when some sort of crazy thing happens that starts actually affecting the way I live in a negative way, then I'm out of here. For now, regardless of how screwed up our political system is, I'm still happy and content living here, under Bush or Obama or Clinton or McCain - whatever. It doesn't matter. There are exceptions of course - Palin is a complete nutjob and I would fight to have just about anybody run for office in her place, but insane idiots aside, it's all the same.
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Old January 4th, 2010, 04:18 PM   #31 (permalink)
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You nailed it, Iowa. Well done! You're a great American, a true patriot.

As a (holy) ghost writer for some conservative/Christian leaders, it was my job to check out Mr. O during the presidential campaign. What I discovered made my blood run cold. Hope and change? The "hope" is for those who long for a rebirth of communism after the fall of the USSR. The "change" is from a constitutional Republic to a Marxist dictatorship. And disgruntled voters, brainwashed from daily doses of biased misinformation by leftist mainstream media that call bad good and good bad, swallowed it hook, line and sinker.

It's a perfect storm that must be making Lennin do handsprings in his grave! He would say it's a "God deal" miracle, except that before standing in front of his maker he didn't believe in that dusty old book of legends and old wives tales, you know -- the Bible -- which predicts something like this will happen before the end comes. 2012 anyone?

Hide and watch -- or campaign and vote for people in November who promise to listen to the people supposedly represent. Knowing, though, that "we the people" hold the power at the ballot box, many are predicting some, uh, crisis will force martial law, which "for the time being" understandably will postpone Senate and House elections and keep the status que in the hands of totalitarian turncoats intent on tyranny. But, hey, I love my HTC Hero!
Wow! Are you for real?
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Old January 4th, 2010, 04:19 PM   #32 (permalink)
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You nailed it, Iowa. Well done! You're a great American, a true patriot.

As a (holy) ghost writer for some conservative/Christian leaders, it was my job to check out Mr. O during the presidential campaign. What I discovered made my blood run cold. Hope and change? The "hope" is for those who long for a rebirth of communism after the fall of the USSR. The "change" is from a constitutional Republic to a Marxist dictatorship. And disgruntled voters, brainwashed from daily doses of biased misinformation by leftist mainstream media that call bad good and good bad, swallowed it hook, line and sinker.

It's a perfect storm that must be making Lennin do handsprings in his grave! He would say it's a "God deal" miracle, except that before standing in front of his maker he didn't believe in that dusty old book of legends and old wives tales, you know -- the Bible -- which predicts something like this will happen before the end comes. 2012 anyone?

Hide and watch -- or campaign and vote for people in November who promise to listen to the people supposedly represent. Knowing, though, that "we the people" hold the power at the ballot box, many are predicting some, uh, crisis will force martial law, which "for the time being" understandably will postpone Senate and House elections and keep the status que in the hands of totalitarian turncoats intent on tyranny. But, hey, I love my HTC Hero!
LOL! If your dusty old book predicts this, then who are you to oppose it? Heck, why even bother researching Mr. O? You know something bad must be going down.
Sit back, pray, and enjoy the show!

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Old January 4th, 2010, 07:22 PM   #33 (permalink)
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Be very careful if you want to criticize Americas healthcare system. I grew up in Austria and experienced their system which is pretty close to the UKs from what I understand.And I assure you its terrible compared to ours.
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Old January 4th, 2010, 07:44 PM   #34 (permalink)
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All I will say is I have always supported the president, whether he was my choice or not...till now. There are bad things on the horizon.
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Old January 4th, 2010, 10:07 PM   #35 (permalink)
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As the day is short (at this time of year), TheBrit. Couldn't believe it myself, but you've got to ask why would a guy pay more than $1.4 million to keep his real birth certificate and all of his college and personal records sealed from public view.
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Old January 4th, 2010, 10:10 PM   #36 (permalink)
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All I will say is I have always supported the president, whether he was my choice or not...till now. There are bad things on the horizon.
He's Godzilla to America's Tokyo, romping and stomping as fast as he can before the mind-warped public finally catches on -- and he's betting everything on that being too late for him to be stopped.
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Old January 4th, 2010, 10:18 PM   #37 (permalink)
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And I heard from a guy who knows a dude with credentials that heard it on the internets so it must be true that Nasa didn't really land on the moon.
in fact..... Nasa was so upset over the controversy that they took out a full page ad way back in the day (this part *is* true) that said "Yes We Did". Is it a coincidence that O used a similar phrase Yes We Can? oh my, I'm starting to see the truth now. How could I have been so blind for so many decades? Please young zen masters, where can I learn the truth and the way? BTW, who *should* be the king of Amerika?
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Old January 4th, 2010, 10:34 PM   #38 (permalink)
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IOWA - at the moment you have in the USA a 3rd World health system. How? You may well ask - it's because the well off and well paid are OK and can afford health care but the poor and low paid can go to hell. What made the poor and low paid so undeserving? You REALLY need to do something about that in your country. Obama is making an attempt to fix this and for that he's called a communist. Ridiculous! Some have even gone so far as to call him evil. Evil is denying the poor basic human rights just because they are poor.

As for welfare - I don't defend those that refuse to work - but in an economy such as the one we (and you) have now - there are millions who WANT to work but are unable to find suitable employment. Please don't call these people lazy - they're not.

The financial crisis is world wide - Clinton did not force the UK banks (or those4 of any other non USA country) to lend irresposibly. The banks did this all by themselves out of greed.

Yes - I am a capitalist - one with a conscience. Where people can pay thier way then they certainly should but there are those less fortunate than us through no fault of thier own.

As for the genuinely lazy - I agree they should get what's coming to them.
If you are TRULY a capitalist you will realize that Healthcare is NOT a right. It is a privilege. It's like saying everyone should have a RIGHT to drive. A driver's license is a privilege as well, NOT a RIGHT. I suggest you learn the difference.

But what would someone known as "TheBrit" know about true democracy, and capitalism? England has been run by the archaic King/Queen system and you don't know any better.

Quote:
LOL! If your dusty old book predicts this, then who are you to oppose it? Heck, why even bother researching Mr. O? You know something bad must be going down.
Sit back, pray, and enjoy the show!
And who are you to naysay/dismiss someone's religion? If you don't believe, then fine don't, but don't put down someone's beliefs because you don't have faith. Even Eienstien believed in God, and he was undoubtedly the smartest man that ever walked on the planet.
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Old January 4th, 2010, 10:43 PM   #39 (permalink)
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Unfortunately I feel it's necessary to preface this with this note clearly stating these are my opinions only, regardless of how strongly worded certain things may be. Take them as that and nothing more.



I'm totally numb to our "leaders" and their actions. If you think that Obama or the democrats are ruining the country, or if you think that Bush and the republicans ruined the country, but refuse to see any evil on your preferred side, then there is a problem. I'm no conspiracy nut, don't get me wrong, but it's got to be pretty clear by now to anybody with half of a brain that our leaders either don't care to do anything for the regular American people, or simply can't because lobbyists basically run everything. The presidential election is a joke. It's a game. It gets people all riled up over two candidates (2, really? Give me some choices for God's sake) that paint themselves as opposites, but really are going to enact a hell of a lot of the same policies and not bring any drastic changes to your lives. I haven't seen a candidate that I genuinely liked run for the presidential office in my lifetime. The ones who are free thinkers, the ones with the good ideas - republican or democrat, doesn't matter - never make it through the primaries.

Media is ridiculous and honestly can't be trusted anymore. Whether a media outlet is on the left or right is irrelevant, they're all just there for entertainment. The left/right schism in this country is disgusting. The fact that such a large majority of people are willing to align themselves to one of only two parties - I believe - strongly illustrates the simplistic, weak-minded attitude we've come to accept in this country. A lot of Democrats ate up Obama's "hope" crap like they'd been starved for months. They spent years criticizing Bush only to find out that their precious president is following in his footsteps in plenty of ways, and this "hope and change" he spoke of was completely hollow. I feel like a lot of college kids are vastly disappointed that we're not living in some radically different world right now. Republicans are eating up the right wing media's inane criticisms of the president in the same way. Some people actually take Glen Beck seriously - this terrifies me. When there's plenty of intelligent, viable criticism that should not be ignored, the media wingnuts are driving their followers into a hateful frenzy devoid of critical thinking.

Please don't get me wrong, I am genuinely happy and thankful to live in this country, but I can't vote for any of these loser clones that they keep trying to shove down my throat. In a very basic way, they're all the same. My interests as a regular, working middle class American are never going to be seriously considered. They spend far too much time bickering and mudslinging over every moronic policy under the sun. Perfect example - is Obama a socialist!? Who the hell cares? Do people even realize how many things in our country are already socialized? We're essentially the only rich democratic country in the world that doesn't provide any sort of health care assistance. The democratic solution is awful. It's not at all up to par with what other countries have implemented. What we have going through right now is basically just going to put more money in insurance companies' pockets, because we're throwing them however many millions of new customers. Public option is out (it was never well put together in the first place) and it's entirely possible that you may actually be fined for not purchasing health care. Way to go democrats, I can see you really have my health in mind.

Go to some of the other countries and see if people are going bankrupt regularly thanks to health care costs. They're not. Do they yell about socialized medical care being bad? I seriously doubt it, because all it's really doing is making their lives better. They're not wasting time getting all up in arms over some anti-socialism "principle" that in reality doesn't make any difference. Oh wait, it does make a difference. We're supposedly the most advanced, free and powerful country in the world, yet our health care quality is abysmal. That's the only thing that matters to me, not some BS socialism/capitalism argument. I'm pretty sure we've just been convinced that pure capitalism is tantamount to democracy and freedom. Completely silly if you ask me. Look at what happened thanks to our wonderful pure capitalist economy. The greedy cheaters got rich and the hard-working got screwed. Now the hard-working are getting more screwed while we "fix" it (ironically by helping to keep the idiots afloat that caused it all), and the rich are just as rich. Meanwhile, they still have all the influence they've ever had over which laws succeed and which laws fail.

I guess I'm very pessimistic when it comes to politicians. Like it or not though, you have to admit that we're not as democratic as we are led to believe. The health care predicament is not the only example, but it's a great one. The money that runs the great majority of our politicians has succeeded in what they set out to do. I felt like I, as a citizen, have absolutely no control over whether we have health care reform, and if we do, how it is designed. This applies to just about everything. I have no control over a lot of substantial issues, because if there's a big business interest (and there almost always is) mine is rendered moot. It doesn't matter which fool I vote for. They're not going to do most of the things they say they'll do anyways. My interest is far in the back of their minds. If it doesn't mirror the interest of some greedy billionaire company, then it doesn't get serious consideration, but they're more than willing to pretend they're helping me out and shout crap through their news outlets.

I haven't voted for a president in a while, and my life is not drastically different because of it. I just go with the flow and live as best I can. If the day comes when some sort of crazy thing happens that starts actually affecting the way I live in a negative way, then I'm out of here. For now, regardless of how screwed up our political system is, I'm still happy and content living here, under Bush or Obama or Clinton or McCain - whatever. It doesn't matter. There are exceptions of course - Palin is a complete nutjob and I would fight to have just about anybody run for office in her place, but insane idiots aside, it's all the same.
But we are not powerless. We just need to speak up. People have become so lazy/stupid they don't know any better. Literally, all it would take is a band of people determined to change the way things really are. It may escalate to violence, but freedom don't come free.


And something I just noticed, notice that all the obama supporters/democrat supporters have supplied absolutely no fact, and have resorted to making fun/discrediting my OP, when it did in fact happen, and that is how it happened. And if you say it is not true, then explain to me this:

How is it NOT a fact, that Bill Clinton and his club enabled millions of people to buy houses they can't afford, resulting in the cascading affect that is today's economy. Explain it. You can't. Bring it or go home.

And I fully support a Third party. I do not fully support Republicans either but I do believe they are the lesser of two evils.... but we shouldn't have to settle for that.
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Old January 4th, 2010, 10:53 PM   #40 (permalink)
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But we are not powerless. We just need to speak up. People have become so lazy/stupid they don't know any better. Literally, all it would take is a band of people determined to change the way things really are. It may escalate to violence, but freedom don't come free.
We, the people, will try. More and more are coming out from under the spell. However, knowing how the White House's undocumented resident is using the Allinsky playbook, he isn't going to allow us the opportunity to undo his damage at the ballot box. This really is in God's hands.
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Old January 5th, 2010, 12:49 AM   #41 (permalink)
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Here's a good story

John G. is 63 years old and owns a small business. He's a life-long Republican and sees his dream of retiring next year has all but evaporated. With the stock market crashing and new taxes coming his way, John assumes now that he will work to his dying day.

John has a granddaughter. Ashley is a recent college grad. She drives a flashy hybrid car, wears all the latest fashions, and loves to go out to nightclubs and restaurants.. Ashley campaigned hard for Barack Obama. After the election she made sure her grandfather (and all other Republican family members) received a big I told-you-so earful on how the world is going to be a much better place now that her party is taking over.

Having lost both roommates, Ashley recently ran short of cash and cannot pay the rent (again) on her 3 bedroom townhouse. Like she has done many times in the past, she e-mailed her grandfather asking for some financial help.

Here is his reply:

Sweetheart,

I received your request for assistance.

Ashley, you know I love you dearly and I 'm sympathetic to your financial plight. Unfortunately, times have changed. With the election of President Obama, your grandmother and I have had to set forth a bold new economic plan of our own..."The Ashley Economic Empowerment Plan." Let me explain.

Your grandmother and I are life-long, wage-earning tax payers. We have lived a comfortable life, as you know, but we have never had the fancier things like European vacations, luxury cars, etc. We have worked hard and were looking forward to retiring soon. But the plan has changed. Your president is raising our personal and business taxes significantly. He says it is so he can give our hard earned money to other people. Do you know what this means, Ashley? It means less for us, and we must cut back on many business and personal expenses.

You know the wonderful receptionist who worked in my office for more than 23 years? The one who always gave you candy when you came over to visit? I had to let her go last week. I can't afford to pay her salary and all of the government mandated taxes that go with having employees. Your grandmother will now work 4 days a week to answer phones, take orders and handle the books. We will be closed on Fridays and will lose even more income to the Wal-Mart.

I'm also very sorry to report that your cousin Frank will no longer be working summers in the warehouse. I called him at school this morning. He already knows about it and he's upset because he will have to give up skydiving and his yearly trip to Greenland to survey the polar bears.

That's just the business side of things. Some personal economic effects of Obama's new taxation policies include none other than you. You know very well that over the years your grandmother and I have given you thousands of dollars in cash, tuition assistance, food, housing, clothing, gifts, etc., etc. But by your vote, you have chosen to help others -- not at your expense -- but at our expense.

If you need money now sweetheart, I recommend you call 202-456-1111. That is the direct phone number for the White House. You yourself told me how foolish it is to vote Republican. You said Mr. Obama is going to be the People's President, and is going to help every American live a better life. Based on everything you've told me, along with all the promises we heard during the campaign, I'm sure Mr. Obama will be happy to transfer some stimulus money into your bank account. Have him call me for the account number which I memorized years ago..

Perhaps you can now understand what I've been saying all my life: those who vote for a president should consider the impact on the nation as a whole, and not be just concerned with what they can get for themselves. What Obama supporters don't seem to realize is all of the money he is redistributing to illegal aliens and non-taxpaying Americans (the so-called "less fortunate") comes from tax-paying families.

Remember how you told me, "Only the richest of the rich will be affected"? Well guess what, honey? Because we own a business, your grandmother and I are now considered to be the richest of the rich.. On paper, it might look that way, but in the real world, we are far from it.

As you said while campaigning for Obama, some people will have to carry more of the burden so all of America can prosper. You understand what that means, right? It means that raising taxes on productive people results in them having less money; less money for everything, including granddaughters.

I'm sorry, Ashley, but the well has run dry. The free lunches are over. I have no money to give you now. So, congratulations on your choice for "change." For future reference, I encourage you to try and add up the total value of the gifts and cash you have received from us, just since you went off to college, and compare it to what you expect to get from Mr. Obama over the next 4 (or 8) years. I have not kept track of it, Ashley. It has all truly been the gift of our hearts.

Remember, we love you dearly....but from now on you'll need to call the number mentioned above. Your "Savior" has the money we would have given to you. Just try and get it from him.

Good luck, sweetheart.

Love,
Grandpa
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Old January 5th, 2010, 12:56 AM   #42 (permalink)
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He's Godzilla to America's Tokyo, romping and stomping as fast as he can before the mind-warped public finally catches on -- and he's betting everything on that being too late for him to be stopped.
You paint the picture of a president that's on some sort of sadistic mission to make everyone's lives horrible. I really don't think that's the case here. Obama has basically done nothing since he's been in office, and that's exactly the problem here. He hasn't done anything useful, and he hasn't done anything malicious either. He's doing nothing to make anything any better for the people.

I think it's a little bit funny that the far right is going up in arms over things that they think Obama will do or wants to do. I'm pretty certain whatever world-ending scenario has been speculated about here is never going to happen. The thing is, the far left diehards were saying the exact same things about Bush. I remember people going ballistic about how they were sure he was going to create martial law to stop him losing his office. They were so sure about it. Guess what... never happened. Not going to happen this time either. This is why I hate the 2 party system. It divides people down a ridiculously black and white line when that is not how the world works.
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Old January 5th, 2010, 01:09 AM   #43 (permalink)
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You paint the picture of a president that's on some sort of sadistic mission to make everyone's lives horrible. I really don't think that's the case here. Obama has basically done nothing since he's been in office, and that's exactly the problem here. He hasn't done anything useful, and he hasn't done anything malicious either. He's doing nothing to make anything any better for the people.

I think it's a little bit funny that the far right is going up in arms over things that they think Obama will do or wants to do. I'm pretty certain whatever world-ending scenario has been speculated about here is never going to happen. The thing is, the far left diehards were saying the exact same things about Bush. I remember people going ballistic about how they were sure he was going to create martial law to stop him losing his office. They were so sure about it. Guess what... never happened. Not going to happen this time either. This is why I hate the 2 party system. It divides people down a ridiculously black and white line when that is not how the world works.
Agreed. We need a 3rd, or even 4th party. Or abandon the parties altogether, and be all independents.
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Old January 5th, 2010, 02:46 AM   #44 (permalink)
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You paint the picture of a president that's on some sort of sadistic mission to make everyone's lives horrible. I really don't think that's the case here. Obama has basically done nothing since he's been in office, and that's exactly the problem here. He hasn't done anything useful, and he hasn't done anything malicious either. He's doing nothing to make anything any better for the people.

I think it's a little bit funny that the far right is going up in arms over things that they think Obama will do or wants to do. I'm pretty certain whatever world-ending scenario has been speculated about here is never going to happen. The thing is, the far left diehards were saying the exact same things about Bush. I remember people going ballistic about how they were sure he was going to create martial law to stop him losing his office. They were so sure about it. Guess what... never happened. Not going to happen this time either. This is why I hate the 2 party system. It divides people down a ridiculously black and white line when that is not how the world works.
Well he did supposedly release a few detainees from Gitmo that supposedly in turn masterminded the exploding underwear plot? I'm not sure that they became terrorist after being held captive...but it would be odd that they became masterminds after being only released a few months?

oh and Iowa I think you may have me pegged all wrong. I suppose my cynical and sometimes sarcastic nature doesn't translate well into text. While I don't feel that either party represents me I do feel the Republicans have less short comings....like pelosi and stuff...just sayin' is all....
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Old January 5th, 2010, 04:41 AM   #45 (permalink)
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But what would someone known as "TheBrit" know about true democracy, and capitalism? England has been run by the archaic King/Queen system and you don't know any better.
Please, if you're going to deal with geopolitics at least get the basic facts right:

(a) The nation is United Kingdom/Great Britain. "England" is but part of it, alongside Northern Ireland, Scotland and Wales.

(b) Great Britain hasn't been "run" by the monarch for several centuries now. In fact, he/she has a lot less influence on how the country is "run" than your president i.e. none. The monarch is a figurehead, nothing more. Power resides with the elected representatives of the people in Westminster (and to a lesser extent in devolved assemblies for Wales and Scotland).

On a general note, Marx ≠ Lenin and socialism ≠ communism, at least not in any of the political textbooks I read at university.

Nonetheless, it's a very interesting and illuminating discussion.
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Old January 5th, 2010, 06:13 AM   #46 (permalink)
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Thanks Slug. I was going to say pretty much the same thing about the British Royal Family. Thier role has been for a very long time just ceremonial and promoting of charities they like.

Oh man, you can't compare health care to having a driving license. Also, please tell me how somebody earns the privelidge of health care.

IOWA - if you are ever down on your luck, please try not to get sick.
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Old January 5th, 2010, 06:23 AM   #47 (permalink)
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Thanks Slug. I was going to say pretty much the same thing about the British Royal Family. Thier role has been for a very long time just ceremonial and promoting of charities they like.

Oh man, you can't compare health care to having a driving license. Also, please tell me how somebody earns the privelidge of health care.

IOWA - if you are ever down on your luck, please try not to get sick.
And how is forcing doctors who pay 100's of thousands of dollars and nearly half thier life preparing for their career to accept lower pay from the government a RIGHT of the people? And I CAN compare it, and I did, and it is a valid comparison. If people don't like our health care system they can go to Mexico. Let's see what's worse.

And *still* no-one has come forth with facts discrediting my OP. Just flames, rhetoric, and *I disagree*'s.

And crude, I know where your coming from. I am actually known amongst my friends as the "King of one liners" and the "Sultan of assholes" due to my cynical and sarcastic nature, and I do agree, since there is no "tone of voice" or "body language" or other indicators we can *Read*, it does not translate at all very well on a forum =D. So I understand.

And as for the UK, If the monarchy system is truly outdated, and electorates are voted in, why didn't they vote away the monarchy system? And that is a genuine question, please don't take it wrong as you are correct, I don't know much about UK politics, and nor do I care, really, as it has no immediate affect on me and I have more pressing issues.

And I have been in bad spots where *I* didn't have insurance, and I didn't go crying about it, I *did* something about it. So yes, health care *is* in fact a * privilege*, because it affects other people. Once again, why should I foot the bill for someone who doesn't even want to try? I know that is not always the case, but coming from Chicago, and what I *see*, that is the norm.

And Socialism is the road to Communism. It is merely a transition. Let's face facts here, the people in power are trying to create a one world government, the evidence is right in front of our eyes. Things such as the Eurodollar, The UN, and straight up talks about it. I for one don't like the idea, and I do believe it will start a new age of tyranny, if it hasn't already started with all the electronic surveillance that's already going on. What we need to do, is simply organize, and show up at doorsteps and such of our politicians, and voice our griefs. Show them no mercy. Don't let them sleep without knowing someone is out there complaining. They are public servants, they are elected to serve us. It's time to let them know that.

And another thing that irks me a bit, why does USA politics concern those of you that do not reside in the states so much? Why stick your nose in things that you just don't belong in? Are you here simply to stir the pot? All you know is what your media feeds you. Oh, and are you enjoying your "three strikes" rules from the ISPs? Want to talk about how bad our government is? Look at YOURS. You don't even have to be convicted of file sharing, just ACCUSED, and they cut off your service at the RIAA's request. That's tyranny and infringement of freedom in it's rawest form. You have absolutely no say in the matter. And that's in many other countries as well. So before you comment/flame other countries politics, look at your own. You have your own problems to fix.

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As the day is short (at this time of year), TheBrit. Couldn't believe it myself, but you've got to ask why would a guy pay more than $1.4 million to keep his real birth certificate and all of his college and personal records sealed from public view.
Agreed. Where's his so-called "transparency" ?
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Old January 5th, 2010, 06:48 AM   #48 (permalink)
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I'm not saying my country is perfect. Far from it. Our politicians have just been caught with thier snouts in the trough. I will not be voting for the current party in power.

Doctors in the UK are paid very well and are amongst the best paid people in the UK. I know in some other European countries that is not the case.

I hear you when you talk about one-world government - and what it means. I want to avaoid it just as much as you but for the sake of peace nations should work together. Working together does not have to result in a one world government.

Trouble is, part of the scenario is preceded by the Roman Empire (read Treaty of Rome - read European Union) rising again. Oh, and the reformation of Israel. The world has been on this path since 1948 and all these things are leading up to the rapture/second coming/whatever.

And while were on Biblical stuff - where's your compassion for the less fortunate? Read Matthew 25 verses 31 to 46. Are you a sheep or a goat? I'm a sheep, what about you, your health care rantings make you sound like a goat.

And who said the world was coming to an end in 2012? Oh yes, Hollywood.
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Old January 5th, 2010, 06:57 AM   #49 (permalink)
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I'm not saying my country is perfect. Far from it. Our politicians have just been caught with thier snouts in the trough. I will not be voting for the current party in power.

Doctors in the UK are paid very well and are amongst the best paid people in the UK. I know in some other European countries that is not the case.

I hear you when you talk about one-world government - and what it means. I want to avaoid it just as much as you but for the sake of peace nations should work together. Working together does not have to result in a one world government.

Trouble is, part of the scenario is preceded by the Roman Empire (read Treaty of Rome - read European Union) rising again. Oh, and the reformation of Israel. The world has been on this path since 1948 and all these things are leading up to the rapture/second coming/whatever.

And while were on Biblical stuff - where's your compassion for the less fortunate? Read Matthew 25 verses 31 to 46. Are you a sheep or a goat? I'm a sheep, what about you, your health care rantings make you sound like a goat.

And who said the world was coming to an end in 2012? Oh yes, Hollywood.
I do have compassion for other people, but God also says we need to provide for ourselves. Think about it, we have all this crap. Crap we don't really need, and we put it in front of things we don't need. People who can't "afford" healthcare but yet are driving around escalades, have xbox 360's, wii's and 500 dollar phones, 100 dollar shoes, and more. This isn't always the case, but it is the norm. People just need to re-arrange their priorities, and I agree, we do need to work together, and a one-world government needs to be avoided. These are very dangerous times, and we need to tread carefully.

Oh and the 2012 thing, actually derived from several sources, such as the Mayan calendar, and many other non-related ancient civilizations that I don't feel like looking up. A google search should suffice.

On a side not:

Before anyone goes off saying I'm pompous, or a prick, or whatever, I do welcome any debates. And I know things can get heated, but that just shows how passionate we are about the subject. And it is GOOD to question the opposition, because it makes us research and learn more, and hopefully both sides learn something.
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Old January 5th, 2010, 07:23 AM   #50 (permalink)
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I do have compassion for other people, but God also says we need to provide for ourselves. Think about it, we have all this crap. Crap we don't really need, and we put it in front of things we don't need. People who can't "afford" healthcare but yet are driving around escalades, have xbox 360's, wii's and 500 dollar phones, 100 dollar shoes, and more. This isn't always the case, but it is the norm. People just need to re-arrange their priorities, and I agree, we do need to work together, and a one-world government needs to be avoided. These are very dangerous times, and we need to tread carefully.

Oh and the 2012 thing, actually derived from several sources, such as the Mayan calendar, and many other non-related ancient civilizations that I don't feel like looking up. A google search should suffice.

On a side not:

Before anyone goes off saying I'm pompous, or a prick, or whatever, I do welcome any debates. And I know things can get heated, but that just shows how passionate we are about the subject. And it is GOOD to question the opposition, because it makes us research and learn more, and hopefully both sides learn something.
Now ALL of this I agree with. But I still disagree on your assessment of Obama and healthcare.
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