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Old July 27th, 2011, 03:09 PM   #451 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by lordofthereef View Post
Prove what? Take a shot of mouthwash and immediately after use a brethalyzer. If it was alcohol based it will read high than 0.0, the legal limit for all persons under 21.
You might be right. But that means nothing in the real world. Actually, I think that was a trick some drunks used. They figured it would confuse the machines. So I think coppers know these tricks and if there is a doubt, there is the field sobriety test. In many jurisdictions, you also have a right to a blood test and ends the debate.

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Old July 27th, 2011, 03:10 PM   #452 (permalink)
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You might be right. But that means nothing in the real world. Actually, I think that was a trick some drunks used. They figured it would confuse the machines. So I think coppers know these tricks and if there is a doubt, there is the field sobriety test. In many jurisdictions, you also have a right to a blood test and ends the debate.
Some points are just lost on some....
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Old July 27th, 2011, 03:12 PM   #453 (permalink)
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Actually, it is well documented that mouthwash can cause a failed breathelyzer. And, please stop putting words in my mouth and telling me I am wrong. Did I ever say it can cause one to fail a field sobriety test? No, I said it CAN cause a failed test for BAC. Prove me wrong.
So OK, lets see some of the documentation. Perhaps it exists only in Narnia.

And to be clear, are you confused between a breathalyze test and a blood alcohol test? that is to say, a blood test that looks at the amount of alcohol in your system?

I will agree that perhaps mouthwash will fool the breathalyzer. It wont fool a field sobriety or blood test.
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Old July 27th, 2011, 03:17 PM   #454 (permalink)
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So OK, lets see some of the documentation. Perhaps it exists only in Narnia.

And to be clear, are you confused between a breathalyze test and a blood alcohol test? that is to say, a blood test that looks at the amount of alcohol in your system?

I will agree that perhaps mouthwash will fool the breathalyzer. It wont fool a field sobriety or blood test.
Did I say a blood test? Did I say a field sobriety test? No, right in the quote you quoted, it says BREATHALYZER. Again, stop putting words in my mouth, and then telling me I am wrong. BTW, a breathalyzer measures BLOOD ALCOHOL CONTENT. Say someone fails the breathalyzer, often, the blood test will not be administered for an hour or more, thereby increasing the odds that one will pass, even though they were above the limit while driving. So, again, why does there need to be a MORE accurate test for pot?
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Old July 27th, 2011, 03:19 PM   #455 (permalink)
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Does it matter WHY someone is taking a drug? No, the fact is, people are taking them. Does it matter that a doctor has to prescribe them? NO, fact is, people are taking them. Does one need to "abuse" them in order to drive inebriated? No. Is there a test that determines when someone is inebriated while taking them? No. My arguement is that the test that is in place is more than satisfactory. There doesnt NEED to be a "better" test.
You are right. Our (or at least my) point is that if the substance (MJ) is legalized for virtually anyone and everyone, there is far greater potential for people driving under the influence of marijuana than there is under the influence of an rx drug.
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Old July 27th, 2011, 03:22 PM   #456 (permalink)
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You are right. Our (or at least my) point is that if the substance is legalized for virtually anyone and everyone, there is far greater potential for people driving under the influence of marijuana than there is under the influence of an rx drug.
In the child support thread, you mention laws in place not for the majority, but the minority. Why does it not fit here? BTW, MILLIONS of people take RX drugs. Far more than smoke pot. Now, certainly pot usage will rise IF it were to be made legal, but I highly doubt it will reach the level of RX's.
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Old July 27th, 2011, 03:27 PM   #457 (permalink)
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Listen. The answer to the RX problem is A.) let it happen. or B.) Make all RX drug use illegal. Obviously, the latter isn't acceptable, right?

We are talking about legalizing a substance for the masses to use. Not by prescription, but for fun. I hardly think that this is comparable, at least in the ways you make the comparison.
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Old July 27th, 2011, 03:40 PM   #458 (permalink)
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Listen. The answer to the RX problem is A.) let it happen. or B.) Make all RX drug use illegal. Obviously, the latter isn't acceptable, right?

We are talking about legalizing a substance for the masses to use. Not by prescription, but for fun. I hardly think that this is comparable, at least in the ways you make the comparison.
The answer to the pot problem is A.) Let it happen. or B.) Make all pot usage illegal. Obviously, the former isn't acceptable, right? Differance is, there IS a test that can determine when someone is under the influence of pot, unlike the RX's. There CAN be a limit set, to where you don't have to just "let it happen".
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Old July 27th, 2011, 03:47 PM   #459 (permalink)
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The test, as I pointed out, may show intoxication. As I keep saying, may is not good enough. I am not saying I want pot use to be illegal. I am saying I would like a test that will do more than perhaps tell me whether a person is intoxicated.
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Old July 27th, 2011, 03:51 PM   #460 (permalink)
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The test can determine how much you smoked and how long it has been since you last smoked. Maybe the MAY comes from the fact there isn't a legal definition on intoxication with regards to pot? How can it tell if you are over a set limit, if there is no set limit? The test is plenty accurate, there just needs to be a standard set.
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Old July 27th, 2011, 04:32 PM   #461 (permalink)
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The test determines these numbers withing a 2-5 hour window, as far as I know. I am not sure what plenty accurate means to you. If you are stating 2-5 hours is plenty accurate, that is fine, for you. If that is all said test can accomplish, those results are pretty vague.

Maybe the MAY comes from what you say, maybe not. Wouldn't that be valuable information to know before professing that the test is "plenty accurate"?

As I mentioned, if that is enough for the people, wonderful. Personally, I don't feel that is enough.
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Old July 27th, 2011, 04:39 PM   #462 (permalink)
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The test determines these numbers withing a 2-5 hour window, as far as I know. I am not sure what plenty accurate means to you. If you are stating 2-5 hours is plenty accurate, that is fine, for you. If that is all said test can accomplish, those results are pretty vague.

Maybe the MAY comes from what you say, maybe not. Wouldn't that be valuable information to know before professing that the test is "plenty accurate"?

As I mentioned, if that is enough for the people, wonderful. Personally, I don't feel that is enough.
Where are you getting 2-5 hours? I saw "elapsed time since use". I say it is plenty accurate because the test can determine "elapsed time since last use", and "extent of use".
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Old July 27th, 2011, 04:47 PM   #463 (permalink)
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It was from the link I provided, the one that you referred to multiple times.
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Old July 27th, 2011, 05:03 PM   #464 (permalink)
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It was from the link I provided, the one that you referred to multiple times.
I am not seeing it, I do see this

"Drug testing is extremely accurate and reliable when all aspects of the testing process are done properly."
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Old July 27th, 2011, 05:22 PM   #465 (permalink)
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Or, perhaps dope smokers should accept that with use comes a bunch of problems and it simply might be best not to smoke.
hmmm you could say the same towards drinkers, such as yourself, no?

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Does it matter WHY someone is taking a drug? No, the fact is, people are taking them. Does it matter that a doctor has to prescribe them? NO, fact is, people are taking them. Does one need to "abuse" them in order to drive inebriated? No. Is there a test that determines when someone is inebriated while taking them? No. My arguement is that the test that is in place is more than satisfactory. There doesnt NEED to be a "better" test.
i never referred to the reasons someone is taking a substance other than to asses lordofthereef's statement, which turned out to be a typo.

you do realize, a better test would benefit YOU as a smoker, right? I agreed with you that there doesn't NEED to be one for legalization to happen, fyi
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Old July 27th, 2011, 05:28 PM   #466 (permalink)
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CLASS: Psychoactive cannabinoid
STREET NAMES: "Pot", "Grass", "Sensemilla", "Thai Sticks", "Acapulco Gold", "Reefer"
MAJOR METABOLITES: 11-nor-9-carboxy-delta-9 tetrahydrocannabinol. (Note: delta-9 tetrahydrocannabinol is the major psychoactive ingredient)
SYMPTOMS / EFFECTS:
Desired: Euphoria, Relaxation, Anti-nausea effect, Hallucinations
General: Sedation, sleepiness, ataxia, and short term memory impairment.
Physiological: Red conjunctiva (Whites of the eyes), increased pulse & blood pressure.
LENGTH OF TIME DETECTED:
Blood:
Delta-9-THC concentration usually drops below 5 ng/mL within 3-4 hours post dose. Frequent users may have longer detection times.

Urine:
11-nor-9-carboxy-delta-9-THC (inactive metabolite) detectable several days to several weeks, even longer for extremely heavy users. THC is a lipid soluble drug, therefore stores in the fat in the body and the amount of time it takes to clear the system is dependent on how much drug was used and over what period of time the drug is used. Delta-9-THC may also be detected.
DURATION OF EFFECTS: Approximately 2-5 hours (route of administration and dose dependant).
I have bolded what I thought was pertinent. It may be pertinent to point out that if there is a more exact test then what I see here, great. I have just not seen evidence stating otherwise.
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Old July 27th, 2011, 05:36 PM   #467 (permalink)
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2-5 hours is the the duration of effects, as in you stay high for 2-5 hours.
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Old July 27th, 2011, 05:44 PM   #468 (permalink)
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I understand that. If that is how it is going to be defined (ie you must not drive 2-5 hours after use), great! I would have thought we would want something that actually shows that a person is, in fact high, no? If not, like I said, if that is what the people want, let them have it. If that is what we end up getting, smokers are going to be bitching for all other reasons (and, if I might add, probably legitimate ones). I'd rather see it all ironed out FIRST.
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Old July 27th, 2011, 05:52 PM   #469 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by lordofthereef View Post
I have bolded what I thought was pertinent. It may be pertinent to point out that if there is a more exact test then what I see here, great. I have just not seen evidence stating otherwise.
the problem is you're referring to the duration of marijuana's effects on the body, while he is referring to how accurately a test can tell if you've smoked recently.


EDIT: i see you've now discovered that. haha

i think we should all be able to agree on something (and i beleive it's the point that lordofthereef has been trying to make) and that's that there needs to be a test to show how high you are at the time of incident, rather than how long ago you smoked, etc.
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Old July 27th, 2011, 06:01 PM   #470 (permalink)
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i think we should all be able to agree on something (and i beleive it's the point that lordofthereef has been trying to make) and that's that there needs to be a test to show how high you are at the time of incident, rather than how long ago you smoked, etc.
The test CAN show IF you are UNDER the influence.
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Old July 27th, 2011, 06:02 PM   #471 (permalink)
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i think we should all be able to agree on something (and i beleive it's the point that lordofthereef has been trying to make) and that's that there needs to be a test to show how high you are at the time of incident, rather than how long ago you smoked, etc.
This is crucial IMO. And, there needs to be legally acceptable levels as well. Without that you have giant grey areas. Grey areas = complete officer discretion. I am not comfortable with that.

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The test CAN show IF you are UNDER the influence.
If the effects last 3-5 hours I am not sure this is true. let me put it this way. If the test does, in fact, show that at the time it was run you definitely were or were not under the influence, great. That is all that I am asking for, we already have that, so there can be no better test because that is the best test, right? I simply haven't been presented with evidence that said test exists.

DUI Marijuana in California

There is a good link on current DUI Marijuana in California. Obviously, it doesn't really speak of currently levels. What seems to be implied is any detectable levels are high enough to be considered DUI (under current law). It does give some valuable incite on what, exactly, is done currently, on the scene.
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Old July 27th, 2011, 07:25 PM   #472 (permalink)
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My issue with tests based on "levels" is the tolerance factor. i had been pulled over for swerving after dropping my cigarrettes on the floor and the officer had no idea i had been smoking 30 minutes before that and in the few hours prior had smoked around 2 grams of the gooood stuff, even though i was pulled over because another car thought i was under the influence.

Now with laws based solely on blood test by levels i would have been screwed and my levels would have been sky high but i had such an enormous tolerance that in alcohol terms it would have been like drinking a beer or 2 during a game.

Where as today to smoke a tenth that amount i would be wayyyy to high to drive but would have way lower levels in a blood test.

They just passed medical laws in AZ and as it stands here is that if you have your script, reccomendation, whatever, and get pulled over to get a dui for the MJ you must fail a field sobriety test and fail the blood test. I think thats the best bet because it doesnt metabolize the same way as alcohol.
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Old July 27th, 2011, 07:43 PM   #473 (permalink)
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Because mj is illegal and i have chronic back and knee pain, caused during my military career I am currently on Valium, mobic, ambien and vicodin. This is the governments way of keeping me going since medical mj is illegal. So until I retire in two years, I am relegated to constant use of these drugs, which by the way are habit forming. As far as I know mj is not habit forming. Gotta love situaions like these.
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Old July 27th, 2011, 08:30 PM   #474 (permalink)
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Because mj is illegal and i have chronic back and knee pain, caused during my military career I am currently on Valium, mobic, ambien and vicodin. This is the governments way of keeping me going since medical mj is illegal. So until I retire in two years, I am relegated to constant use of these drugs, which by the way are habit forming. As far as I know mj is not habit forming. Gotta love situaions like these.
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Old July 27th, 2011, 08:44 PM   #475 (permalink)
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I still have yet to hear from pretty much anyone, a reason to keep it illegal that actually makes sense and is truthful. It just makes 0 sense to me how people can argue such a topic with such misinformation.

Everyone should watch 2 movies.
1) The Union: The Business Behind Getting High
2) Run From the Cure (Just download on the left side).
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Old July 28th, 2011, 02:12 PM   #476 (permalink)
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the union is a GREAT documentary!! Bob, you should check it out for sure
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Old July 28th, 2011, 02:31 PM   #477 (permalink)
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In the child support thread, you mention laws in place not for the majority, but the minority. Why does it not fit here? BTW, MILLIONS of people take RX drugs. Far more than smoke pot. Now, certainly pot usage will rise IF it were to be made legal, but I highly doubt it will reach the level of RX's.
Stop comparing perscription drugs to MJ. Not even close to being comparable.
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Old July 28th, 2011, 03:00 PM   #478 (permalink)
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Stop comparing perscription drugs to MJ. Not even close to being comparable.
Says you. I see millions of people on RX drugs, far more than smoke pot. And, RX drugs impair ones cognative abilities far more than pot does. So what IF you need a prescription. The DANGER is still there, and there is no test to determine how messed up someone is on RX's.
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Old July 28th, 2011, 03:01 PM   #479 (permalink)
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Stop comparing perscription drugs to MJ. Not even close to being comparable.
haha funny, because it IS a prescription drug in a few states. So yes, they are most definitely "comparable"
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Old July 28th, 2011, 03:28 PM   #480 (permalink)
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Stop comparing perscription drugs to MJ. Not even close to being comparable.
You should probably learn more about Medical Marijuana before saying a sentence like that...

In fact, MMJ is BETTER than prescription drugs because it has virtually no dependence, it isnt physically addictive in any way, and it has very slight to no negative health effects on the user. Can you say that for prescription drugs? I feel like all I hear during commercials for prescription pills are the side effects, usually which have something to do with heart attack or stroke which can lead to DEATH. Marijuana has no such side effects. The only side effects of marijuana is being hungry, happy, and sleepy...
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Old July 29th, 2011, 03:59 PM   #481 (permalink)
 
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I just thought I'd mention it, but if you are pulled over, you can refuse to do a field sobriety test or brethalyzer. But, if you refuse those, they will take a blood sample. Which means you'll have to be placed under arrest until the results are returned.
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Old July 29th, 2011, 11:11 PM   #482 (permalink)
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I believe there is a legal limit and if you are caught over the limit, you go through a stark reality: the DUI charge and associated costs.

It does not matter if you can function while loaded. What matters is you are over the limit.

Not sure I can address the incompetence of the typical driver. If he is below the legal limit, then OK. No arrest unless he breaks the law. As for your friend, apparently, he did not break the law.



So we use hemp to replace cotton. Why? We already understand cotton, so why bother with hemp?

Costs perhaps? Bob does not know. Perhaps yield per acre is too low compared to cotton or some other reason it is not more widely used. There is that federal law, I suppose. Again, Bob is not a hemp head.

There are some natural materials that can replace many plastics, but they are dangerous and/or costly to make. For example, Casein and Celluloid. I recently read a post on another list that mentioned these specific polymers and the writer simply had ZERO idea about these alternatives.

Casein can take a year to produce in a size suitable for making items like fountain pens and duck calls, and Celluloid from cotton is explosive.

Can you provide a link that looks at the costs of hemp Vs. cotton?
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I just thought I'd mention it, but if you are pulled over, you can refuse to do a field sobriety test or brethalyzer. But, if you refuse those, they will take a blood sample. Which means you'll have to be placed under arrest until the results are returned.
Actually, the officer can refuse to let you take a breath or blood test and charge you. All the officer need to do is say you refused to take test. Who is the court or jury likely to believe ?
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Old July 29th, 2011, 11:20 PM   #483 (permalink)
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In my opinion, I feel that marijuana should be legalized federally in the United States. I agree completely with everything in the failed Proposition 19.

As we are currently in a debt crisis and can't figure out how to get out, why not legalize and tax marijuana for some extra dough?

According to estimates from 2008, (http://dontmesswithtaxes.typepad.com/.a/6a00d8345157c669e20120a6e7ee0b970b-250wi), the United States would bring in just under a billion dollars a year in marijuana taxes. However, I believe the government would be able to rake in much more than that. It was estimated (sorry, I forget where I read it) that if legalized, California alone would bring in over $1 billion in taxes. This is after a $50 per oz. tax on marijuana.

TL;DR If it's natural, why not make better use of it?
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Old July 31st, 2011, 11:02 AM   #484 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Covart View Post
Because mj is illegal and i have chronic back and knee pain, caused during my military career I am currently on Valium, mobic, ambien and vicodin. This is the governments way of keeping me going since medical mj is illegal. So until I retire in two years, I am relegated to constant use of these drugs, which by the way are habit forming. As far as I know mj is not habit forming. Gotta love situaions like these.
This is a fantastic argument FOR legalizing marijuana for medical purposes. Out of curiosity, have you tried using MJ to see if it would actually help you? It is possible that the drugs you are on ARE the only drugs that would help you. (please only respond if you are comfortable).

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Originally Posted by thelonewizard View Post
In my opinion, I feel that marijuana should be legalized federally in the United States. I agree completely with everything in the failed Proposition 19.

As we are currently in a debt crisis and can't figure out how to get out, why not legalize and tax marijuana for some extra dough?

According to estimates from 2008, (http://dontmesswithtaxes.typepad.com/.a/6a00d8345157c669e20120a6e7ee0b970b-250wi), the United States would bring in just under a billion dollars a year in marijuana taxes. However, I believe the government would be able to rake in much more than that. It was estimated (sorry, I forget where I read it) that if legalized, California alone would bring in over $1 billion in taxes. This is after a $50 per oz. tax on marijuana.

TL;DR If it's natural, why not make better use of it?
That's the thing. The taxes argument sounds good to the masses, but once we start talking about lawmakers, that is chump change in the grand scheme of things, and that is how they think. "Every little bit counts" should be the mantra, but sadly it isn't.

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Originally Posted by ssick92 View Post
You should probably learn more about Medical Marijuana before saying a sentence like that...

In fact, MMJ is BETTER than prescription drugs because it has virtually no dependence, it isnt physically addictive in any way, and it has very slight to no negative health effects on the user. Can you say that for prescription drugs? I feel like all I hear during commercials for prescription pills are the side effects, usually which have something to do with heart attack or stroke which can lead to DEATH. Marijuana has no such side effects. The only side effects of marijuana is being hungry, happy, and sleepy...
  • Problems with memory and learning
  • Distorted perception
  • Difficulty with thinking and problem solving
  • Loss of coordination
  • Increased heart rate
  • Anxiety, paranoia and panic attacks
There are some of the MJ side-effects, the last two of which are the big hitters IMO, and all of which are more than hunger, happiness, and lethargy.

BTW I graduated from Cal Poly SLO in 2008. Animal Sciences. What are you studying?
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Old July 31st, 2011, 12:12 PM   #485 (permalink)
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The side effects listed are not all that common. Some people do get anxious, paranoid, and even may have panic attacks. But, to most, mj has the exact opposite effect. Just as, some people have better learning, problem solving skills on mj.
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Old July 31st, 2011, 12:19 PM   #486 (permalink)
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The side effects listed are not all that common. Some people do get anxious, paranoid, and even may have panic attacks. But, to most, mj has the exact opposite effect. Just as, some people have better learning, problem solving skills on mj.
Certainly not. I am simply pointing this out because the side effects of many (not all) rx drugs are also uncommon. Heart attack, stroke, etc. were used as some examples. Those are not "common" side effects, but rather serious ones that legally need to be noted.

As an example, a "side-effect" of antibiotics is diarrhea, which in extremely rare cases can lead to dehydration. Though it is fairly uncommon, it is still listed as a side-effected on many (again, not all) of these types of drugs.

I suspect that marijuana intended for recreational use will have some sort of surgeon general's warning (or something similar). Now that I think about it, that is yet another thing that would likely have to be "ironed out" before nationwide legalization is accepted.
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Old August 2nd, 2011, 10:50 PM   #487 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by lordofthereef View Post
  • Problems with memory and learning
  • Distorted perception
  • Difficulty with thinking and problem solving
  • Loss of coordination
  • Increased heart rate
  • Anxiety, paranoia and panic attacks
There are some of the MJ side-effects, the last two of which are the big hitters IMO, and all of which are more than hunger, happiness, and lethargy.

BTW I graduated from Cal Poly SLO in 2008. Animal Sciences. What are you studying?
Could you supply link(s) to support the listed side-effects ? The reason being there was a government funded studies that linked marijuana to brain damage in monkeys by Dr. Robert Heath, but was later found the monkey's were suffocated and oxygen deprivation was the cause of brain damage. Later studies also discredited Dr. heath's study by a pair of better controlled, much larger monkey studies, one by Dr. William Slikker of the National Center for Toxicological Research and the other by Charles Rebert and Gordon Pryor of SRI International.

I appears sometimes the result of studies can be biased and reflect the viewpoints of those that sponsor the study, so methodology is important.

This is not to say the side-effects you listed are not valid, only that links which may lead to the methodology used to conclude these side-effects, duration, dosage, etc., would be useful. I might add the listed side-effects for marijuana appears similar to those I've seen for alcohol.
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Old August 3rd, 2011, 02:47 PM   #488 (permalink)
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Stop comparing perscription drugs to MJ. Not even close to being comparable.
Umm yes, you can compare them. 16 states recognize it as a prescription medicine. And I can't tell you how many people I've seen ruin their lives with RX pills. I have yet to see someone ruin their life with MJ.

And both of those documentaries previously posted are awesome. The Union is probably the best one out there. I saw run from the cure a few months ago and it was definitely awesome as well. For anyone against MJ I encourage you to spend some time watching these and you will see hopefully that it being illegal is completely wrong.
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Old August 3rd, 2011, 03:15 PM   #489 (permalink)
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Umm yes, you can compare them. 16 states recognize it as a prescription medicine. And I can't tell you how many people I've seen ruin their lives with RX pills. I have yet to see someone ruin their life with MJ.

And both of those documentaries previously posted are awesome. The Union is probably the best one out there. I saw run from the cure a few months ago and it was definitely awesome as well. For anyone against MJ I encourage you to spend some time watching these and you will see hopefully that it being illegal is completely wrong.
Two separate issues are being mixed in this thread: the medical uses of the plant and the recreational uses. Many people wanting MJ made legal often point to the supposed medical applications and uses and they use that as a talking point to somehow make us thing MJ should be legalized for everyone.

One has nothing to do with the other.

If whatever it is in MJ that offers legitimate medical relief could be put into pill form without any side effects like euphoria, that would not be good enough for many. People simply want to get high and they want MJ.

I saw a 60 Minutes story about medical MJ abuse in California. Apparently, just about anything goes if a "doctor" can find a reason, you will be given a prescription. The shops that sold the stuff do not care about its benefits; they want legalization so they can make money.

If there is a good medical reason for it, fine. Legalize it for that use and make getting a prescription difficult. If you need it, you can get it. Tighten up the rules and make it as difficult to get as other drugs like opiates.

As for across the board legalization, God no. We do not need more problems.

Finally, I find it interesting that tobacco is on its way out through huge taxes and crap science about second hand smoke dangers. So why make yet one more thing to smoke legal?
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Old August 3rd, 2011, 03:48 PM   #490 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Bob Maxey View Post
Two separate issues are being mixed in this thread: the medical uses of the plant and the recreational uses. Many people wanting MJ made legal often point to the supposed medical applications and uses and they use that as a talking point to somehow make us thing MJ should be legalized for everyone.

One has nothing to do with the other.

If whatever it is in MJ that offers legitimate medical relief could be put into pill form without any side effects like euphoria, that would not be good enough for many. People simply want to get high and they want MJ.

I saw a 60 Minutes story about medical MJ abuse in California. Apparently, just about anything goes if a "doctor" can find a reason, you will be given a prescription. The shops that sold the stuff do not care about its benefits; they want legalization so they can make money.

If there is a good medical reason for it, fine. Legalize it for that use and make getting a prescription difficult. If you need it, you can get it. Tighten up the rules and make it as difficult to get as other drugs like opiates.

As for across the board legalization, God no. We do not need more problems.

Finally, I find it interesting that tobacco is on its way out through huge taxes and crap science about second hand smoke dangers. So why make yet one more thing to smoke legal?
I take it you've never heard of marinol? Supposed pill form of MJ. They neglected the fact that it's a multitude of chemicals in MJ that are responsible for the medical effects not just delta-9-THC.

You keep saying that we don't need more problems. That's the weakest argument I've heard to keep it illegal. It's not like with it illegal we don't have a problem with it. If that were the case the govt wouldn't spend millions to enforce it. And legalizing it wouldn't really add to any problems it would probably decrease the negative stigmas it has gotten over time. I don't think people would start using it just because it's legal. A lot of people just choose not to. Like me an hard drugs. I just choose not to do them. If they were all made legal I wouldn't start using meth. Because I don't want to.

You think opiates are hard to get? please. come to houston sometime. You can get anything you want there. Stuff you've probably never even heard of or knew existed.

There are other ways to benefit from MJ to besides smoking. Edibles? Tincture? Vaporizor? Lollipops?
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Old August 3rd, 2011, 04:09 PM   #491 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Bob Maxey View Post
As for across the board legalization, God no. We do not need more problems.

Finally, I find it interesting that tobacco is on its way out through huge taxes and crap science about second hand smoke dangers. So why make yet one more thing to smoke legal?
i feel like we're talking in circles at this point. it's already readily available, and in fact it's MORE of a problem when it's illegal!!! what about that do you not yet understand?

Bob, please, please, please watch "The Union"... i feel like you're terribly misinformed about marijuana. If you are as involved in this subject as you seem to be, you owe it to yourself to at the very least get the facts straight. WATCH THE UNION!!!

The Union
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Old August 4th, 2011, 02:41 AM   #492 (permalink)
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It will all come down the pipe eventually, The "war on drugs" is a joke, let alone winable. Why keep spending billions of dollars and an untold amount of manhours on something that will never ever stop. Put all that money and manhours toward education ( not stupid ass propaganda thats not true) on drugs and let people make up their own minds. What I do in my home ( as long as I am not endangering anyone else) is no ones buisness. We are slowing losing our freedoms everyday and most people don't seem to notice or worse, care. Sad really.
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Old August 4th, 2011, 04:41 PM   #493 (permalink)
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You know, here is a thought that I just came up with reading through a few of the newer posts since I last logged on...

What about setting a precedent? Marijuana has been illegal for so long, I am sure there is fear of setting the "illicit drug legalization precedent". That is to say, what drug might be next. Heroin? Cocaine? LSD? Crystal Meth?

Please do not get me wrong here. I personally feel that marijuana is far FAR less dangerous than any of the other drugs listed here. In fact, I feel that it is even less dangerous than some of the legal drugs (tobacco, alcohol).

The issue I have is the argument people make of "my body, my rules". If we are using THAT argument, then why shouldn't all of the other drugs I mentioned be legalized if used in the privacy of one's home? I mean if I OD on coke, I only hurt myself, right?

You know, interestingly in many places in this country (USA) it is illegal to commit suicide. In many ways, I can see drug abuse as slow suicide (yet being an alcoholic is not illegal). For this reason, I think there is a little more to the picture than "let me do whatever I want with my own body".
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Old August 4th, 2011, 04:55 PM   #494 (permalink)
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Great points, lordofthereef (can I call you reef for short? .. I know lordofthereefer is not right ).

But, when we hurt ourselves we do hurt loved ones, of course.

We all have to make decisions about what we do with that in mind, in my opinion.
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Old August 4th, 2011, 05:06 PM   #495 (permalink)
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Sure,
Reef in my name actually stands for coral reef. I am a big slatwater nut!
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Old August 4th, 2011, 05:21 PM   #496 (permalink)
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I'm gonna by me one of them hydro gardens, and a vapoooorizer. Lol
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Old October 7th, 2011, 08:32 AM   #497 (permalink)
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Time for a thread resurrection, as I have said earlier in this thread I'm a huge supporter of decriminalizing/legalizing marijuana. Thanks to the Obama administration, the feds are now trying to shut down medicinal marijuana facilities in California.

Feds Crack Down on California Pot Dispensaries | TheBlaze.com

We are hurting as a country, and spending money to shut down dispensaries is just ridiculous, especially with how much those dispensaries have been paying towards taxes.
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Old October 7th, 2011, 11:05 AM   #498 (permalink)
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I'm in favor of the decriminalization of marijuana. I think the "medical use" of it has been overblown by NORML and other advocacy groups, though. And that is what the Feds seize upon (in addition to existing federal law, of course).

Doctors disagreeing with the benefit findings by other doctors are not as vocal anymore, but the data seems to beg for further analysis.

Too bad about the "gateway drug" stigma on pot.. I'd like to see real data on that as well, although we sure do see pot and cocaine and meth being dealt by the same folks, unfortunately.
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Old October 7th, 2011, 06:23 PM   #499 (permalink)
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I'm in favor of the decriminalization of marijuana. I think the "medical use" of it has been overblown by NORML and other advocacy groups, though. And that is what the Feds seize upon (in addition to existing federal law, of course).

Doctors disagreeing with the benefit findings by other doctors are not as vocal anymore, but the data seems to beg for further analysis.

Too bad about the "gateway drug" stigma on pot.. I'd like to see real data on that as well, although we sure do see pot and cocaine and meth being dealt by the same folks, unfortunately.
I watched the Prohibition series by Ken Burns. Our current policy results in disrespect for the law, political and economic corruption, no health benefits. The big distributors, as in the Prohibition era, do not want legalization.
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Old October 10th, 2011, 03:31 AM   #500 (permalink)
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I wonder where in history does it ever show that by making a substance illegal it is no longer used or abused? The only effect it has is to criminalise it, to put big evil thugs in command and provide them with a wonderful easy income.
Alchohol is a habit forming substance and poisonous to the body yet it is legal. Is everyone an abuser? Does everyone drink large quantities of it whenever they can? No of course not.

A set part of the population is prone to addictions and risk seeking behaviour, they will do risky things no matter how much they are forbidden. Better to find use for these specific talents in stead if stigmatising them.
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