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Old June 22nd, 2011, 06:16 PM   #101 (permalink)
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i got a funny story. i got a friend who went to the store. some kids asked him to get beer for them. he said no i wood rather get u some weed. they no thanks we can get that on our own. the point is the illegal weed trade is not controlled and makes it easier to get than beer. i say legallize it to keep it from minors.

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Old June 22nd, 2011, 06:21 PM   #102 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by lordofthereef View Post
See I just don't see the point in this. I assume you are saying you cannot sell beer with greater than 3.2% alcohol? That just about eliminates anything I drink. A person that drinks to get drunk is going to do so even on their 3.2% beers. A person that drinks to enjoy a cold beer won't be getting drunk off of that 5% (or so) beer.

Don't get me wrong, I am not necessarily saying you are a supporter of this, but I just don't see the point of doing something like this. Sounds like regulation for the sake of regulation.

EDIT: I missed that liquor stores still allow it. Apologies. Still, I am unclear as to what this stops?
Lots of people also think it is silly to limit the alcohol content, but it is what it is. We have some odd laws here in Utah.

We had a nice bar here in Utah and the owner added this to his doors in gold leaf:

"Wine, Spirits, and Beer"

The Utah Liquor Control Commission said that using the word 'spirits' was advertising hard liquor which is against the Utah law, so the owner changed it to:

"Wine, Ghosts, and Beer"
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Old June 22nd, 2011, 06:35 PM   #103 (permalink)
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HAHA! I love that!
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Old June 22nd, 2011, 06:36 PM   #104 (permalink)
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i got a funny story. i got a friend who went to the store. some kids asked him to get beer for them. he said no i wood rather get u some weed. they no thanks we can get that on our own. the point is the illegal weed trade is not controlled and makes it easier to get than beer. i say legallize it to keep it from minors.
Why would your friend rather get some random kids weed than beer?
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Old June 22nd, 2011, 07:04 PM   #105 (permalink)
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Ok Pot is regulated by the Government. You really think they are going to allow the competitors (Drug Cartels) To just walk over the boarder with their pot to sell. Then the Government dont make money off the other guys sales. So you would still have Law enforcement paroling and stopping the drug runners.

So really nothing would change as it will just be like alcohol. Its legal just as long as you buy it from a store regulated by the government. Try and make your own and you're violating the law. Try to sell it and you're violating the law. But wait I thought Alcohol was legal?
You do realize, during prohibtion, people would smuggle alcohol. After prohobition, people stopped...IE, things changed!!!! Why? Who wants to deal with a shady character to obtain something that can be bought at the corner store? After that, it is simply a matter of supply and demand. Once there is no demand for the cartels drug, they will stop smuggling it. Simple concept really.
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Old June 22nd, 2011, 07:25 PM   #106 (permalink)
 
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Never heard of alcohol destroying anyone's lungs either.
I've heard of another legal product doing that, though. It's called tobacco.
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Old June 22nd, 2011, 07:27 PM   #107 (permalink)
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You do realize, during prohibtion, people would smuggle alcohol. After prohobition, people stopped...IE, things changed!!!! Why? Who wants to deal with a shady character to obtain something that can be bought at the corner store? After that, it is simply a matter of supply and demand. Once there is no demand for the cartels drug, they will stop smuggling it. Simple concept really.
People still smuggle alcohol or have you forgot moonshine? That's right you wouldnt know as it dont make the 6pm news. Sure its not on the grand scale as back during prohibition. To drive the drug cartels out of business you would have to basically legalize every hard drug there is. They don't deal in one drug only.

Plus they will always be around as legal pot would be very weak and people would rather get the stronger stuff from the cartels. So they will still have a strong presence in the drug picture.

Don't care if its alcohol or drugs when you constantly use the item your body creates a tolerance to the item. So you have to do more to get your buzz. So the weak stuff the government would push would be fine for the recreational user bit for your more hardcore people the weak stuff just won't cut it.
 
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Old June 22nd, 2011, 07:30 PM   #108 (permalink)
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I've heard of another legal product doing that, though. It's called tobacco.
Wow really? I did not know that. I guess you don't know sarcasm do you? Heck even used the smiley for it too.
 
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Old June 22nd, 2011, 07:48 PM   #109 (permalink)
 
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Wow really? I did not know that. I guess you don't know sarcasm do you? Heck even used the smiley for it too.
My point is, the argument that it can hurt your lungs isn't really a good one as long as tobacco is legal.
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Old June 22nd, 2011, 07:58 PM   #110 (permalink)
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My point is, the argument that it can hurt your lungs isn't really a good one as long as tobacco is legal.
My god you really dont get it do you?
 
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Old June 22nd, 2011, 08:07 PM   #111 (permalink)
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Don't care if its alcohol or drugs when you constantly use the item your body creates a tolerance to the item. So you have to do more to get your buzz. So the weak stuff the government would push would be fine for the recreational user bit for your more hardcore people the weak stuff just won't cut it.
You/we are making the assumption that the government would even do this. They don't really regulate alcohol (in the sense that there are limits to the proof a company can produce). I don't think there is really any way to know, currently, what would be written into law regarding the potency of marijuana were it to be legalized.
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Old June 22nd, 2011, 08:11 PM   #112 (permalink)
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You/we are making the assumption that the government would even do this. They don't really regulate alcohol (in the sense that there are limits to the proof a company can produce). I don't think there is really any way to know, currently, what would be written into law regarding the potency of marijuana were it to be legalized.
beer is regulated to either 5% or 6 percent.

Well medical pot people says its weak. So you can be sure thats the same pot that will be used if they legalize pot.
 
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Old June 22nd, 2011, 08:14 PM   #113 (permalink)
 
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My god you really dont get it do you?
Besides, why should the government tell us how to live our lives and what we should and shouldn't put into our own bodies? If somebody wants to use a harmful substance, they can deal with the consequences.
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Old June 22nd, 2011, 08:23 PM   #114 (permalink)
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Besides, why should the government tell us how to live our lives and what we should and shouldn't put into our own bodies? If somebody wants to use a harmful substance, they can deal with the consequences.
because we elect them to do what they think is for the greater good of the people. remember by the people for the people.
 
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Old June 22nd, 2011, 08:28 PM   #115 (permalink)
 
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because we elect them to do what they think is for the greater good of the people. remember by the people for the people.
Medical marijuana was legalized here by direct popular election. No politicians needed. That's what I call for the people, by the people.
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Old June 22nd, 2011, 08:29 PM   #116 (permalink)
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beer is regulated to either 5% or 6 percent.

Well medical pot people says its weak. So you can assume thats the same pot that will be used if they legalize pot.
ftfy right now they are probably limiting it the way they have been because it is hard to justify actually getting high for medicinal purposes. In California though, as an example, there are plenty of "designer" (marijuana) plants making it into the medical sector.

And on the beer comment, it seems it's a state by state basis. Some (AL and WV) allow as high as 13.9. Also, by proof one generally is referring to hard liquor and not beer. Likely if beer was much higher than legal limits it would have to be considered hard liquor, thus defeating the purpose, really.
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Old June 23rd, 2011, 02:27 AM   #117 (permalink)
 
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Great news! A bipartisan bill sponsored by Democrat Barney Frank and Republican Ron Paul has been introduced in Congress to end marijuana prohibition.
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Old June 23rd, 2011, 04:30 AM   #118 (permalink)
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Besides, why should the government tell us how to live our lives and what we should and shouldn't put into our own bodies? If somebody wants to use a harmful substance, they can deal with the consequences.
Because it can affect others, and put a burden on healthcare..
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Old June 23rd, 2011, 07:09 AM   #119 (permalink)
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I think it is impossible to legalise due to logic. They will not allow people to smoke MJ in public due to secondary smoke and the image etc but also they will not allow specific cafe/smoking houses due to the whole smoking ban that has come into effect (talking UK).

I am neither for it or against it as whatever people do to their bodies is solely up to them just as long it doesn't effect other people. I choose to drink and not smoke as that is my right as a human being. I agree rules have to be in place to create a better society but taxing and legalising MJ could be a way forward if controlled and policed correctly.
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Old June 23rd, 2011, 07:23 AM   #120 (permalink)
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Why would they need smoking houses? Smoke it out your garden, in a field.
Smoking ban FTW IMO. I hate going to states where they dont have it. Its awful
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Old June 23rd, 2011, 08:07 AM   #121 (permalink)
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beer is regulated to either 5% or 6 percent.

Well medical pot people says its weak. So you can be sure thats the same pot that will be used if they legalize pot.
Medical pot is not weak....
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Old June 23rd, 2011, 08:10 AM   #122 (permalink)
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Because it can affect others, and put a burden on healthcare..
So can getting into a car accident, smoking cigerettes, drinking alcohol, putting up a chemical plant, power plant....
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Old June 23rd, 2011, 08:28 AM   #123 (permalink)
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So can getting into a car accident, smoking cigerettes, drinking alcohol, putting up a chemical plant, power plant....
Thats why the government fines you for not wearing your seatbelt, not being trained to drive, add high excise to cigs and drink, regulates chemical plants and power plants heavily
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Old June 23rd, 2011, 09:15 AM   #124 (permalink)
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Thats why the government fines you for not wearing your seatbelt, not being trained to drive, add high excise to cigs and drink, regulates chemical plants and power plants heavily
My post was more geared to the "can't put in our body". Of course they need to regulate it. But they shouldn't ban it.
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Old June 23rd, 2011, 09:48 AM   #125 (permalink)
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My post was more geared to the "can't put in our body". Of course they need to regulate it. But they shouldn't ban it.
I would agree. I was just answering Freaks Q
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Old June 23rd, 2011, 09:49 AM   #126 (permalink)
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People still smuggle alcohol or have you forgot moonshine? That's right you wouldnt know as it dont make the 6pm news.
you know why it doesn't make the news? because it's such a small problem, no one even cares. Most people who make moonshine do it as a hobby and just give it to their buddies. When was the last time you went to a "moonshine dealer" instead of running to the liquor store?

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Plus they will always be around as legal pot would be very weak and people would rather get the stronger stuff from the cartels. So they will still have a strong presence in the drug picture.

Don't care if its alcohol or drugs when you constantly use the item your body creates a tolerance to the item. So you have to do more to get your buzz. So the weak stuff the government would push would be fine for the recreational user bit for your more hardcore people the weak stuff just won't cut it.
that's actually not accurate. for example look at the medicinal marijuana shops in california. They have MUCH stronger strands than most of the stuff you buy from your local dealer. When you have the freedom to cultivate without fear of criminal persecution, your resources are increased. And your second statement is false as well. I've been drinking beer for 10 years, and 7 or 8 beers still gets me drunk just like it did back then. Same goes for pot when I smoke it.
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Old June 23rd, 2011, 09:55 AM   #127 (permalink)
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People still smuggle alcohol or have you forgot moonshine? That's right you wouldnt know as it dont make the 6pm news. Sure its not on the grand scale as back during prohibition. To drive the drug cartels out of business you would have to basically legalize every hard drug there is. They don't deal in one drug only.

Plus they will always be around as legal pot would be very weak and people would rather get the stronger stuff from the cartels. So they will still have a strong presence in the drug picture.

Don't care if its alcohol or drugs when you constantly use the item your body creates a tolerance to the item. So you have to do more to get your buzz. So the weak stuff the government would push would be fine for the recreational user bit for your more hardcore people the weak stuff just won't cut it.
Kinda goes against your "nothing has changed" arguement...
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Old June 23rd, 2011, 10:20 AM   #128 (permalink)
 
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Because it can affect others, and put a burden on healthcare..
If that is your reasoning, should we not also prohibit tobacco and alcohol, regardless of how hard and costly it would be to enforce such prohibition? Oh wait, hordes of people already don't obey the marijuana prohibition and our tax dollars are being spent to prosecuted and overcrowd our jails and prisons with the small percentage of them that get caught.
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Old June 23rd, 2011, 10:25 AM   #129 (permalink)
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If that is your reasoning, should we not also prohibit tobacco and alcohol, regardless of how hard and costly it would be to enforce such prohibition? Oh wait, hordes of people already don't obey the marijuana prohibition and our tax dollars are being spent to prosecuted and overcrowd our jails and prisons with the small percentage of them that get caught.
I think you are missing his point. AFAIK he is pro legalization. He is simply giving reasons that the gov't may use against legalizing. (correct me if I am wrong, please Shadow)

That said, the "we have plenty of other things killing Americans that are legal" isn't a very good approach to legalizing anything. We may have plenty of harmful things in society. That doesn't mean we need to add more.
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Old June 23rd, 2011, 10:27 AM   #130 (permalink)
 
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I think you are missing his point. AFAIK he is pro legalization. He is simply giving reasons that the gov't may use against legalizing. (correct me if I am wrong, please Shadow)
The government's reasons have been proven wrong in the 1920's.
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Old June 23rd, 2011, 10:30 AM   #131 (permalink)
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I think you are missing his point. AFAIK he is pro legalization. He is simply giving reasons that the gov't may use against legalizing. (correct me if I am wrong, please Shadow)
I think he was giving reason why it should be regulated...
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Old June 23rd, 2011, 10:45 AM   #132 (permalink)
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I think you are missing his point. AFAIK he is pro legalization. He is simply giving reasons that the gov't may use against legalizing. (correct me if I am wrong, please Shadow)
You are correct, he asked a question, I answered it.
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Old June 23rd, 2011, 11:56 AM   #133 (permalink)
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The government's reasons have been proven wrong in the 1920's.
Their REASON'S weren't proven wrong. They were just fighting a battle they couldn't win.
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Old June 23rd, 2011, 12:09 PM   #134 (permalink)
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As far as the argument goes for legalizing drugs to stop cartel violence it doesn't look like it will help much. The cartels have diversified into many other rackets much like the mafia here in the U.S. did which allowed them to continue to thrive long after Prohibition ended.

Legalizing Drugs Won't Stop Mexico's Brutal Cartels - By Elizabeth Dickinson | Foreign Policy
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Old June 23rd, 2011, 01:08 PM   #135 (permalink)
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You/we are making the assumption that the government would even do this. They don't really regulate alcohol (in the sense that there are limits to the proof a company can produce). I don't think there is really any way to know, currently, what would be written into law regarding the potency of marijuana were it to be legalized.
Wrong. In Utah alcohol content of beer is regulated.
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Old June 23rd, 2011, 01:21 PM   #136 (permalink)
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Wrong. In Utah alcohol content of beer is regulated.
Sounds more like they regulate where it can be sold....
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Old June 23rd, 2011, 01:38 PM   #137 (permalink)
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The government's reasons have been proven wrong in the 1920's.
You are talking about taking a substance that was once legal and then making it illegal. Then made legal again.

Pot has always been illegal. so you cant use the 1920 prohibition.
 
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Old June 23rd, 2011, 01:54 PM   #138 (permalink)
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You are talking about taking a substance that was once legal and then making it illegal. Then made legal again.

Pot has always been illegal. so you cant use the 1920 prohibition.
Pot was not illegal before 1906 in the US.
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Old June 23rd, 2011, 01:59 PM   #139 (permalink)
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Sounds more like they regulate where it can be sold....
You can buy beer in convenience and grocery stores all over the place. The limit in this case is 3.2% alcohol content, no higher. It is a joke and lots of people drive to Wyoming to get stronger beer.
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Old June 23rd, 2011, 02:00 PM   #140 (permalink)
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Pot was not illegal before 1906 in the US.
I stand corrected. Sucks just waking up.
 
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Old June 23rd, 2011, 02:08 PM   #141 (permalink)
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You can buy beer in convenience and grocery stores all over the place. The limit in this case is 3.2% alcohol content, no higher. It is a joke and lots of people drive to Wyoming to get stronger beer.
Can you not buy stronger beer at a liqour store?
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Old June 23rd, 2011, 02:23 PM   #142 (permalink)
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Can you not buy stronger beer at a liqour store?
Stronger brews are available in Utah, but not in places where most people purchase their beer. So yes, you can get it but it is less convenient. Especially if you want beer on Sunday.

By the way, there is a plan floating about that would ban all beer sales in all Utah convenience stores. Not sure if that is a good idea or not. In my area, there is a huge grocery store across from a convenience store. Beer at the grocery is less than at the convenience store.
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Old June 23rd, 2011, 02:26 PM   #143 (permalink)
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anything at a grocery store is less than a convenience store. lol
 
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Old June 23rd, 2011, 02:36 PM   #144 (permalink)
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How can you control pot better? Anyone can grow it anywhere. So how do you keep John Q. Public from growing his own? Many criminals dont deal in one drug.
I'm glad you pointed this out because this furthers our argument.

Why is it okay for people to make their own alcohol and not okay for people to grow their own pot (assuming pot was fully legal).

I see this argument time and time again yet the anti-marijuana protestors don't understand that this plays right into our hands.

You don't see people crying wolf that you can make your own alcohol. But when it's weed - oh no! the sky is falling!

Growing really good indoor hydroponic weed is expensive as hell, hard as hell, and time consuming as hell. I'd say it would be easier to make wine and beer than to make weed as good as the dispensary.

Thanks, Jedi.
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Old June 23rd, 2011, 02:48 PM   #145 (permalink)
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Stronger brews are available in Utah, but not in places where most people purchase their beer. So yes, you can get it but it is less convenient. Especially if you want beer on Sunday.

By the way, there is a plan floating about that would ban all beer sales in all Utah convenience stores. Not sure if that is a good idea or not. In my area, there is a huge grocery store across from a convenience store. Beer at the grocery is less than at the convenience store.
So it is more, them regulating where you can buy it, over them regulating the alcohol content the brewer can produce...
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Old June 23rd, 2011, 02:48 PM   #146 (permalink)
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I'm glad you pointed this out because this furthers our argument.

Why is it okay for people to make their own alcohol and not okay for people to grow their own pot (assuming pot was fully legal).

I see this argument time and time again yet the anti-marijuana protestors don't understand that this plays right into our hands.

You don't see people crying wolf that you can make your own alcohol. But when it's weed - oh no! the sky is falling!

Growing really good indoor hydroponic weed is expensive as hell, hard as hell, and time consuming as hell. I'd say it would be easier to make wine and beer than to make weed as good as the dispensary.

Thanks, Jedi.
It is not OK to make your own alcohol. Well, you can make beer and wine, but that is it. Growing pot is easy in the home garden. I know a little something about indoor plants and hydroponics. In my view, it is grown inside because growers want to keep it a secret and have no other choice but to use a more difficult growing process.

In the garden, it is a weed and it can easily be cultivated, even in Utah.

I do not want to make my own Scotch or gin, store bought is far better. MJ can sprout up anywhere, almost. Making good Scotch takes decades, good pot takes a half-way decent growing season.

I do not see the comparison as valid because most of us drinkers have no interest in brewing beer, purpling our feet in the grape crusher, or waiting until our children have children to enjoy a nice 60 year old single malt.

I suppose after MJ is legalized (and the new proposal does not legalize MJ in the way most people think, by the way) it will not be enough and people will want to grow Opium Poppies.
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Old June 23rd, 2011, 02:53 PM   #147 (permalink)
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So it is more, them regulating where you can buy it...
Yes, it is regulated. Stronger stuff comes from Utah Liquor Stores, weaker stuff, everywhere else. And a possible ban of beer sales in Convenience stores, so it is all about regulation.

Although regulated, there is no shortage of beer in Utah and no shortage of places to purchase it. Just regulated and we take that serious.

If some had their way, there would be a total ban of all alcohol in Utah.

And we know how that worked out way back when.
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Old June 23rd, 2011, 02:54 PM   #148 (permalink)
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My point is, they aren't regulating the alcohol content. They are regulating where you can buy it.
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Old June 23rd, 2011, 02:58 PM   #149 (permalink)
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And I would like to see evidence that regulating where one can buy it (re: alcohol) actually makes a damn bit of difference.
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Old June 23rd, 2011, 03:01 PM   #150 (permalink)
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Isnt congress about now made up of people from the hippie age and younger? So I am sure many had partaken in the weed. But still they wont legalize it. I have always wondered why. I have heard many a pot smoker say if I had the power I would legalize it. Well I am sure there are many in congress that has spoken those exact words. So why wont they do it?
 
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