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Old March 7th, 2012, 06:39 PM   #1 (permalink)
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Default PINK SLIME: I May Never Eat Another Burger

ABC News (national news with D. Sawyer) reported that 75% of a hamburger patty (basically ground beef) is "pink slime"! Only 25% or less is actually "beef"...yuk! And our govt allows this type of stuff to make it to our dinner plates. Sad

CLICK: 'Pink Slime:' Do you know if it's in your burger?

..."you want fries with that slime?"...

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Old March 7th, 2012, 09:42 PM   #2 (permalink)
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Disgusting. But according to Republicans, the government shouldn't have regulations for anything. They would probably call any legislation against "pink slime" a job killer. Check out a documentary called "Food, Inc" to learn more about how a handful of huge corporations basically control the vast majority of the food supply in this country. It's scary and a real eye opener.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QqQVll-MP3I&feature=youtube_gdata_player

This is the kind of stuff people should be worried about, instead of scaring people that someone wants to take their guns away, or two gay people might (gasp) want to get married. But that stuff is really just a distraction so people don't pay attention to things like this. People should be more scared of the Corporations than the Government, because they are not accountable to voters or anyone else.
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Old March 8th, 2012, 04:15 AM   #3 (permalink)
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Gmash, this is so sad. Its what weve evolved into today. The majority of us alive today are born into this type of economh where we are practically "conditioned" to accept not questioning where oir food comes from, bit rather,be more worried about its risi g prices.

notice you cant even smell the fruit in the air when walking into a supermarket? One thing I distinctly remember as a todler, was , when my mom took me to the store with her, I would literally smell the apples, bananas, pineapples, and yes, LEMON in the air...either its my sinus or theres no natural aromas today.

Now I dont WANT to think about ground beef anymore. Definitely the corporations and big business has "governed" what we eat these days and it is all for $$$$$$$$.

......sad
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Old March 8th, 2012, 04:43 AM   #4 (permalink)
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Gmash, this is so sad. Its what weve evolved into today. The majority of us alive today are born into this type of economh where we are practically "conditioned" to accept not questioning where oir food comes from, bit rather,be more worried about its risi g prices.

notice you cant even smell the fruit in the air when walking into a supermarket? One thing I distinctly remember as a todler, was , when my mom took me to the store with her, I would literally smell the apples, bananas, pineapples, and yes, LEMON in the air...either its my sinus or theres no natural aromas today.

Now I dont WANT to think about ground beef anymore. Definitely the corporations and big business has "governed" what we eat these days and it is all for $$$$$$$$.

......sad
Sad is exactly the emotion I felt after watching that movie. Sad for our country that we have gotten to the point that it is so hard to even know what is going on anymore. How many people know that Monsanto invented a genetically modified soybean seed that is resistant to Roundup (also invented by Monsanto), strong armed every soybean farmer into using it, and sued any holdouts out of existence? How many people know that most of the chicken we eat are raised in giant dark buildings and literally never see sunlight their whole lives? Or that they raise them to grow so fast and so big that some of them cannot even stand up because their legs won't support them? Who would know these things, and really, why would they? But it just makes you feel really sad and helpless when you realize this is just the tip of the iceberg of what's going on in the world all around us without most of us even noticing. It just makes you feel like giving up sometimes, because what can we really do about it?
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Old March 8th, 2012, 04:53 AM   #5 (permalink)
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Sad is exactly the emotion I felt after watching that movie. Sad for our country that we have gotten to the point that it is so hard to even know what is going on anymore. How many people know that Monsanto invented a genetically modified soybean seed that is resistant to Roundup (also invented by Monsanto), strong armed every soybean farmer into using it, and sued any holdouts out of existence? How many people know that most of the chicken we eat are raised in giant dark buildings and literally never see sunlight their whole lives? Or that they raise them to grow so fast and so big that some of them cannot even stand up because their legs won't support them? Who would know these things, and really, why would they? But it just makes you feel really sad and helpless when you realize this is just the tip of the iceberg of what's going on in the world all around us without most of us even noticing. It just makes you feel like giving up sometimes, because what can we really do about it?
I am almost becominga vegetatian but, like youve said,because of strongarmed orcing farmers into accepting certain practices, its hard to find whoe foods. We have such stores locally,but, "they cost more" than the processed foods. Theres some communities here that have opened up neighborhood "open air type markets" where they bring home grown veggies and fruit that others can buy....this I like.
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Old March 8th, 2012, 05:15 AM   #6 (permalink)
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I am almost becominga vegetatian but, like youve said,because of strongarmed orcing farmers into accepting certain practices, its hard to find whoe foods. We have such stores locally,but, "they cost more" than the processed foods. Theres some communities here that have opened up neighborhood "open air type markets" where they bring home grown veggies and fruit that others can buy....this I like.
That's really all you can do, and they do mention it at the end of Food Inc, is try to buy locally from small independent farms. Sadly that's not really realistic for a lot of people, and as you mentioned, trying to buy "organic" is expensive. I can see us heading toward becoming like the humans in "Wall-E".
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Old March 8th, 2012, 05:48 AM   #7 (permalink)
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That's really all you can do, and they do mention it at the end of Food Inc, is try to buy locally from small independent farms. Sadly that's not really realistic for a lot of people, and as you mentioned, trying to buy "organic" is expensive. I can see us heading toward becoming like the humans in "Wall-E".
Now thats scary but a reality (Wall-E). What really got me to the point of not beieciing FDA iare their ever contradicting "studies" and the millions spent. One study, eggs are good for you, then the next study "eggs are bad for you".. An g' when the news report these studies, they NEVER make a follow up comment like "just weeks ago,we reported otherwise"....almostlie they are instructed to not do so and make it sound like it was the first timesuch announceent wew made.


One thing I am convinced of is, we only hear what they want us to hear..ibet a LOT is kept silent from the public
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Old March 8th, 2012, 06:33 AM   #8 (permalink)
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Now thats scary but a reality (Wall-E). What really got me to the point of not beieciing FDA iare their ever contradicting "studies" and the millions spent. One study, eggs are good for you, then the next study "eggs are bad for you".. An g' when the news report these studies, they NEVER make a follow up comment like "just weeks ago,we reported otherwise"....almostlie they are instructed to not do so and make it sound like it was the first timesuch announceent wew made.


One thing I am convinced of is, we only hear what they want us to hear..ibet a LOT is kept silent from the public
Well, just go back to the original article you posted. The FDA says ammonia can be added to the meat and not listed because it's a "process", not an ingredient. How many bribes (or contributions, whatever you prefer to call it) changed hands for that decision to be made? If the meat industry didn't play ball with whatever politician who was in charge of whatever committee that pressured the FDA to (very quietly) make that ruling, ammonia would not only be listed on the ingredients, but there would probably be a warning label. Just a small example of how big business interests have bought massive influence on all aspects of our lives. Thinking about how many deals go down like that behind the scenes every day is enough to make my head hurt.
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Old March 8th, 2012, 07:27 AM   #9 (permalink)
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Sick, sick, sick! Makes you wonder how it got started and spiraled into this today! Alll for money.
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Old March 9th, 2012, 01:18 AM   #10 (permalink)
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Personally, it's a paranormal phenomenon sweeping the United States and well guys, "who are you going to call!!!!! "
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Old March 10th, 2012, 11:10 AM   #11 (permalink)
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National News aired the story again yesterday. They listed Grocery Super Market Chains that said they do not use Pink slime or sell meat containing it, and they listed Grocery Super market chains that would "NOT" respond (which looks like an admission of guilt).

There's Whole Foods and H.E.B. in my area that says they do NOT. I will not shop at the stores that didn't respond one way or the other.

Better yet. .i aint eat'n ground beef anymore (actually stopped long before this was aired)
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Old March 10th, 2012, 11:11 AM   #12 (permalink)
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ABC News got responses one way or the other from Grocery Stores , but what about restaurants like Burger King, Wendys, White Castle, etc?
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Old March 27th, 2012, 08:43 AM   #13 (permalink)
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Looks like the publicity is doing some good:

U.S. beef processor shuts plants over 'pink slime' - chicagotribune.com

Kudos to whoever thought of the term "pink slime" to describe this garbage. I think the name alone was enough to make people pay attention.
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Old March 27th, 2012, 09:41 AM   #14 (permalink)
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Yes! Im glad it got exposed. Who knows what else we are eating.
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Old March 27th, 2012, 09:47 AM   #15 (permalink)
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So gross. I'm so lucky that good family friends raise their own grass fed low fat beef. Makes my choice so much easier. It's scary how little control we have over the crap we eat. These mass production slaughterhouses disgust me.
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Old March 27th, 2012, 10:03 AM   #16 (permalink)
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What gets me is how "uncouth" the spokespersons were after they were caught and interviewed. One said in a snappy way "well! What do you want me to say...that its not "beef"?!..naht gonna happen!"


That alone makes me angry thaat they force fed us this craaahp all this time, making their millions
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Old March 27th, 2012, 10:22 AM   #17 (permalink)
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Not terribly surprised by all of this. Processed food is just the "norm" these days. The movement towards locally grown, organic and natural foods is really growing.
On the flip side, Michael Pollan who wrote several books on the topic of the American state of food is helping a lot. Omnivores Dilemma which is what Food Inc. is based on was fantastic. I highly implore everyone else to read it. Government subsidies that help out the big guys champion the "agri-business" is just horrible. At our restaurant, we make the biggest effort to ensure all our food is as natural and additive free as possible. We buy local produce whenever possible. All our sausage and meatballs are made from in house ground meat that is hormone free. This is saying a lot from a simple pizza joint! I've been eating vegetarian since I was 15, not to say my actual diet is anything great, I just am glad to avoid that garbage. Just sucks that institutional and fast food rely on meats made with this "pink slime". Hopefully, things will get better soon!
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Old March 27th, 2012, 12:09 PM   #18 (permalink)
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I sah we rally a "WHARRRRS THE BEEF" picket at a burger joint then repeat at another restaurant chain until theh eacy BAN slime, grisstle, ligaments, horse hair and any other fillers thats not the real thing.

Its gets my hide, just because placenta came from the cow does NOT make it "beef"... Thats the pinkinian's argument that it "is"..
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Old March 27th, 2012, 02:49 PM   #19 (permalink)
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Since this is a current affair (event), I'm moving it to the Politics and Current Affairs section. If anyone disagrees, please PM me.

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Old March 27th, 2012, 03:13 PM   #20 (permalink)
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Seems yock. How was this allowed though? I'm confused. Aren't there regulations against this stuff? I've noticed companies tend to have far lower standards for food in the USA, again, seems crazy. When I buy a burger I expect the beef to be 100% (European) Beef, unless it says otherwise.

But yeah, probably another reason to go veggie
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Old March 27th, 2012, 03:35 PM   #21 (permalink)
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I would say yes! This is a current affair. Thanks for placing it in the proper home.

ElasticNinja (Yeahha will love you!) You are right and DreadNatty hit it on the head. It the corp businesses, $$$ that got this stuff into our food chain without even one consent, vote or otherwise from the public consumer. I bet you not one of those ceos and other heads of the pink slime industry even TOUCHES this stuff much less eat it. I betcha they all have a "privied" source for their beef wlithout this, this....this MESS , while they make us choke and glide this slithery dollop down our throats. No wonder we have heath issues today..let them tell is it doesnt contribute to health issues in any way..yeah, right.
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Old March 27th, 2012, 04:09 PM   #22 (permalink)
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Would you like velcro with that burger ?

Growing meat in the lab: Scientists initiate action plan to advance cultured meat

"In addition, a life cycle assessment of cultured meat compared to traditionally produced meat was recently published. It shows that the environmental benefits of cultured meat are very large (see attached fact sheet). For example, compared to the rearing of cattle, cultured meat would entail dramatic reductions of greenhouse gas emissions, land use and water use.

Despite these obvious advantages, the area is still very poorly funded."
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Old March 27th, 2012, 04:15 PM   #23 (permalink)
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Would you like velcro with that burger ?

Growing meat in the lab: Scientists initiate action plan to advance cultured meat

"In addition, a life cycle assessment of cultured meat compared to traditionally produced meat was recently published. It shows that the environmental benefits of cultured meat are very large (see attached fact sheet). For example, compared to the rearing of cattle, cultured meat would entail dramatic reductions of greenhouse gas emissions, land use and water use.

Despite these obvious advantages, the area is still very poorly funded."
Velcro with that burger! Excellent
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Old March 27th, 2012, 05:49 PM   #24 (permalink)
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Unfortunately, it's going to take a lot of government action to kill subsidies for corn/soy and less influence from lobbyists to get things to change. They are the two big keys pushing the movement towards processed crap and making it cheap.
If nutritious veggies were subsidized (and then sold as cheaply) as corn, we would honestly have a healthier America. Too bad as in the tobacco and gun lobby, we're just out numbered.
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Old March 27th, 2012, 06:03 PM   #25 (permalink)
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Yes thats the sad thing , because of money and big business dealings , we are the guinnie pigs . They are pushing the heart of america out of business namely the farmlands and natural ways to grow crop and raise livestock
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Old March 27th, 2012, 06:09 PM   #26 (permalink)
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Yes thats the sad thing , because of money and big business dealings , we are the guinnie pigs . They are pushing the heart of america out of business namely the farmlands and natural ways to grow crop and raise livestock
Tis true. We invest a lot of time and extra money in sourcing locally grown veggies, humanely raised meats and natural cheeses. It's a small step, but definitely worth it. The networks are out there, but if you need to make some big bank, it can be tough.
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Old March 27th, 2012, 06:19 PM   #27 (permalink)
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Tis true. We invest a lot of time and extra money in sourcing locally grown veggies, humanely raised meats and natural cheeses. It's a small step, but definitely worth it. The networks are out there, but if you need to make some big bank, it can be tough.
You are right, and on to a good thing. I am looking for local home-grown roadside type markets and community garden type projects . Id l ove to support these and know what I consume than continue fattening corp pockets and eating styrofoam and slime for more money
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Old March 27th, 2012, 07:26 PM   #28 (permalink)
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You are right, and on to a good thing. I am looking for local home-grown roadside type markets and community garden type projects . Id l ove to support these and know what I consume than continue fattening corp pockets and eating styrofoam and slime for more money
Like I said before, I'm so lucky to be able to get locally grown high quality beef, but I'm also really lucky to live in a rural enough area that I can have my own garden or choice of local farm stands/farmers markets. There are local dairies that produce cheese and milk as well. The buy local movement is huge here, and the farmers and local people have embraced it.
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Old March 27th, 2012, 10:48 PM   #29 (permalink)
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Possible solution: Don't eat red meat/burgers?
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Old March 27th, 2012, 11:19 PM   #30 (permalink)
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...Unfortunately, it's going to take a lot of government action to kill subsidies for corn/soy and less influence from lobbyists to get things to change. They are the two big keys pushing the movement towards processed crap and making it cheap.
If nutritious veggies were subsidized (and then sold as cheaply) as corn, we would honestly have a healthier America. Too bad as in the tobacco and gun lobby, we're just out numbered.
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Old March 28th, 2012, 12:06 AM   #31 (permalink)
 
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Possible solution: Don't eat red meat/burgers?
oh. hell. no.

people were meant to eat meat.

much like 330D, i'm lucky enough to live where there are many local producers from which i buy directly from.
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Old March 28th, 2012, 04:52 AM   #32 (permalink)
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Possible solution: Don't eat red meat/burgers?
Right , batgeek?!
Ohhhh Noooo he diihhh-int!!!!

Gimme my red meats! and i wants it 100% , no grisstle, no kneecaps, just red meets!!!
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Old March 28th, 2012, 05:00 AM   #33 (permalink)
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I was BORN to do this! ... and they go and spoil it all.
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Old March 28th, 2012, 08:47 AM   #34 (permalink)
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people were meant to eat meat.

I've heard some people argue that based on the way our teeth are designed, that we're more meant to be herbivores. I think some people put a little too much emphasis on the whole, "The bible says we're supposed to have dominion over all animals on the planet" notion.

I heard Bill Clinton has gone vegan and has drastically increased his overall health. Then again, he used to eat at McDonalds, so just eliminating that probably added another 3-4 years to the end of his life (if he keeps the interns at arm's length).
 
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Old March 28th, 2012, 09:14 AM   #35 (permalink)
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I've heard some people argue that based on the way our teeth are designed, that we're more meant to be herbivores. I think some people put a little too much emphasis on the whole, "The bible says we're supposed to have dominion over all animals on the planet" notion.

I heard Bill Clinton has gone vegan and has drastically increased his overall health. Then again, he used to eat at McDonalds, so just eliminating that probably added another 3-4 years to the end of his life (if he keeps the interns at arm's length).
Personally, I thought that script only meant that we are to care for the beasts, etc, etc, but not mistreat or harm them. I think of it every time I look into a helpless little pup's eyes as he licks my face or so excited that hes got some attention. As far as meat eating goes, it later says we could eat meat but to pour its blood out to the ground before eating.

You are right, I think we started out as vegans.....im leaning more that way each day. My pics lf the burgsrs just for fun. Actually all I eat now is seafood or some pork, like Stevie59 said,...ive all but given up on red meat
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Old March 28th, 2012, 09:27 AM   #36 (permalink)
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We're omnivores...we're supposed to have a varied diet. Going vegan means you will miss out on essential nutrients unless you take supplements.
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Old March 28th, 2012, 09:47 AM   #37 (permalink)
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We're omnivores...we're supposed to have a varied diet. Going vegan means you will miss out on essential nutrients unless you take supplements.
My prob is that im not turning veggie by choice. Ive had , for years but didnt know it when I was a kid, and denied it as a grown monkey, that ive always had problems digesting red meat. Didnt come to light till one time I had surgery aftdr highschool. It souldnt heal even weeks and a month after being home. Found out red meats were doing something to my system that attacked the cells that would have "scabbed" (putting it as nicely as I can).. It was weird. Drs wondered what was causing it then by procedures, found it was a contributor to the prob. Stopped eating my fav WENDY'S HOT & JOOCIE!, and wow, sterted mending fast as in days.

Needless to say, I backslid always and always felt bad internallly...makes me wonder what ive been eating even then. But todays burgers, hayale! I cant even digest! So its cut from my diet.
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Old March 28th, 2012, 11:15 AM   #38 (permalink)
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Personally, I thought that script only meant that we are to care for the beasts, etc, etc, but not mistreat or harm them. I think of it every time I look into a helpless little pup's eyes as he licks my face or so excited that hes got some attention. As far as meat eating goes, it later says we could eat meat but to pour its blood out to the ground before eating.

You are right, I think we started out as vegans.....im leaning more that way each day. My pics lf the burgsrs just for fun. Actually all I eat now is seafood or some pork, like Stevie59 said,...ive all but given up on red meat

I like seafood and poultry, although poultry is typically mistreated as well. I won't touch Shrimp though since they're bottom feeders and I once got deathly sick from a plate of Shrimp Alfredo that had me losing over 20 lbs in a week. I was violently throwing up (out of BOTH ends) for that whole week.



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We're omnivores...we're supposed to have a varied diet. Going vegan means you will miss out on essential nutrients unless you take supplements.
I don't think we're "supposed" to have any type of diet. I think the human body does a great job of adapting to what foods it has access to, hence the reason some people can live off of stuff like Mac n Cheese or Ramen. Below is a good example of someone that doesn't have a "varied diet" and actually only eats 1 meal a day. I suspect he's in better health than a lot of people that have that variety that you speak of.

 
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Old March 28th, 2012, 11:38 AM   #39 (permalink)
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I like seafood and poultry, although poultry is typically mistreated as well. I won't touch Shrimp though since they're bottom feeders and I once got deathly sick from a plate of Shrimp Alfredo that had me losing over 20 lbs in a week. I was violently throwing up (out of BOTH ends) for that whole week.





I don't think we're "supposed" to have any type of diet. I think the human body does a great job of adapting to what foods it has access to, hence the reason some people can live off of stuff like Mac n Cheese or Ramen. Below is a good example of someone that doesn't have a "varied diet" and actually only eats 1 meal a day. I suspect he's in better health than a lot of people that have that variety that you speak of.


Bottom eaters as in "rump-roast"? As in "ham-hock"? As in caboose? As in "shrimp-cocktail"? Now TxGoat whatchoo go and spoil my luv for shrimp! XD

Wow I guess you could say shrimp did not agree with you! Only beef got me that deathly ill once...but I did also on weiners and those nasty vienns sausages...like you-both portals! And I cant get close to those two items to this day!
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Old March 28th, 2012, 04:46 PM   #40 (permalink)
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I don't doubt the stuff is edible. BUT - it should be labeled and sold at a discount.

I've heard stories of people eating meat that was just turning during the depression.

We used to have chopped meat with textured soy protein in it. Cost less, but was labeled as soy included.

I happen to like soy burgers and will also use ground turkey. Lots less fat.
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Old March 29th, 2012, 01:27 AM   #41 (permalink)
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there has been crap in the ground beef for a very long time. My butcher grinds my beef while I wait. No slime and I can eat it rare if I want. No worries over bugs and problems.
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Old March 29th, 2012, 06:15 AM   #42 (permalink)
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Jon Stewart did his whole opening bit last night on pink slime. He ended up with the slogan: "Pink slime: it's pretty much no worse than the sh*t you already eat". Ahh, good stuff.
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Old March 29th, 2012, 08:30 AM   #43 (permalink)
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I'm just amused about how people blame the companies and want government to fix it when the government is complicit in the issue.

Who has more power than the government and the corporations combined? The people themselves...but that power is dwindling because we keep giving more and more of it to the government.
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Old March 29th, 2012, 02:28 PM   #44 (permalink)
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I'm just amused about how people blame the companies and want government to fix it when the government is complicit in the issue.

Who has more power than the government and the corporations combined? The people themselves...but that power is dwindling because we keep giving more and more of it to the government.
Well, the government is to represent the people, and be made up of the people etc. Thus the only way for people get such large scale things done is via the government. Give corporations LESS influence in government, and the problem would be somewhat alleviated. Although I would accept those with intellect and money will probably always have proportionally more influence, it should be minimized somewhat.

If you suggest individuals create and enforce such regulations, you end up with a regulatory nightmare completely non-conductive to business, on par with the infamous License Raj.
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Old March 29th, 2012, 02:38 PM   #45 (permalink)
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Well, the government is to represent the people, and be made up of the people etc. Thus the only way for people get such large scale things done is via the government.
Wrong! Want to hurt a corporation, don't buy their product. That will affect them a lot faster than waiting for the government to intervene.
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Give corporations LESS influence in government, and the problem would be somewhat alleviated.
Ok, that I agree with.
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If you suggest individuals create and enforce such regulations, you end up with a regulatory nightmare completely non-conductive to business, on par with the infamous License Raj.
I'm not suggesting that at all. I'm suggesting that individuals (and groups of individuals) can identify problems and make them known to the public. The public can react accordingly. Want an example of that in practice? Ever heard of the Better Business Bureau? How about Consumer Reports?
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Old March 29th, 2012, 02:43 PM   #46 (permalink)
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Wrong! Want to hurt a corporation, don't buy their product. That will affect them a lot faster than waiting for the government to intervene.
Ok, that I agree with.

I'm not suggesting that at all. I'm suggesting that individuals (and groups of individuals) can identify problems and make them known to the public. The public can react accordingly. Want an example of that in practice? Ever heard of the Better Business Bureau? How about Consumer Reports?
There will always be people who dont know/dont care. People power can work, but it seems to fail with regards to foods and consumer goods more often than not (Not that I've statistics, heh).

Thats fair enough! And sometimes the industry will take action themselves - but if you want to prevent it more permanently, you're looking at government intervention. If something like that is so prevelant, then I would reckon the tempatation will always be there for those who want to make a quick buck.
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Old March 29th, 2012, 02:57 PM   #47 (permalink)
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There will always be people who dont know/dont care. People power can work, but it seems to fail with regards to foods and consumer goods more often than not (Not that I've statistics, heh).
If the people don't care, why should the government? Like you said, they're supposed to represent the people...

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Thats fair enough! And sometimes the industry will take action themselves - but if you want to prevent it more permanently, you're looking at government intervention. If something like that is so prevelant, then I would reckon the tempatation will always be there for those who want to make a quick buck.
The government typically is quick to overreact to a situation and then do nothing to fix their own mistakes. I'd rather have the government stay out of it. They tend to do more harm than good.
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Old March 29th, 2012, 03:07 PM   #48 (permalink)
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Yum, Yum coming to your grocery stores soon.

Placenta on toast? Could we derive benefits from ingesting afterbirth?

"Almost all non-human mammals eat placenta for good reasons. Are we missing something? A paper by neuroscientists at the University at Buffalo and Buffalo State College suggests that ingestion of components of afterbirth or placenta -- placentophagia -- may offer benefits to human mothers and perhaps to non-mothers and males."
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Old March 29th, 2012, 03:54 PM   #49 (permalink)
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If the people don't care, why should the government? Like you said, they're supposed to represent the people...
Because people like to be willfully ignorant?
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The government typically is quick to overreact to a situation and then do nothing to fix their own mistakes. I'd rather have the government stay out of it. They tend to do more harm than good.
Heh, that analysis isn't half wrong But I think humans have a habit of denial/ignorance then overreaction, no?
If governments did more harm than good you'd live in a cave right now and have lost your only surviving son to a clan war with the neighbours.
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Old March 29th, 2012, 04:02 PM   #50 (permalink)
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I am almost becominga vegetatian but, like youve said,because of strongarmed orcing farmers into accepting certain practices, its hard to find whoe foods. We have such stores locally,but, "they cost more" than the processed foods. Theres some communities here that have opened up neighborhood "open air type markets" where they bring home grown veggies and fruit that others can buy....this I like.
Check online to see if trader Joe's is near you, they sell good stuff cheap, organic, sometimes local.
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