Go Back   Android Forums > Android Community > The Lounge > Politics and Current Affairs
Politics and Current Affairs All things political.

Get excited for the Samsung Galaxy S5! Find everything you need and discuss it in our Galaxy S5 Forum!

Like Tree7Likes
  • 1 Post By Bob Maxey
  • 1 Post By Jordan
  • 1 Post By Rachel A
  • 1 Post By Prinny
  • 1 Post By Rico ANDROID
  • 1 Post By Prinny
  • 1 Post By Rico ANDROID

test: Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
Old August 15th, 2012, 01:53 PM   #1 (permalink)
The PearlyMon
Thread Author (OP)
 
EarlyMon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: New Mexico, USA
Posts: 44,019
 
Device(s): LTEvo, 3vo, and Shift
Carrier: Sprint

Thanks: 41,688
Thanked 54,818 Times in 21,860 Posts
Default

Pretty interesting discussion broke out in our Lounge Rants sticky thread. Because of its political nature, I decided to help with a proper venue.

So, let's see how we want this to go - maybe this will evolve into our PCA subforum rant thread as the title suggests and if popular, we can even make this rant thread a similar sticky here as well.

Cheers!

EM, August 18, 2012

EarlyMon is offline  
Last edited by EarlyMon; August 18th, 2012 at 02:04 PM.
Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to EarlyMon For This Useful Post:
Prinny (August 18th, 2012), Rico ANDROID (August 19th, 2012)
sponsored links
Old August 15th, 2012, 01:53 PM   #2 (permalink)
Senior Member
 
Bob Maxey's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 4,837
 
Device(s):
Carrier: Not Provided

Thanks: 381
Thanked 811 Times in 641 Posts
Default Rants and perfectly cromulent discussions about government restrictions

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheAtheistReverend View Post
It is expensive. I'm on two months without a smoke, almost three. Smokers are being pushed out and away from everything. It is hard to be a smoker these days. There is hardly a place they can go to smoke in peace where they can sit and relax, let alone enjoy a bite to eat or drink with it.

I hear your pain though. I can't go anywhere without the smell and site tempting me, but it isn't my world alone.
And once the smoker is gone, they will come after something else. Like transfats or banning the use of salt in NYC. State Assemblyman Felix Ortiz wanted all salt banned.

I am tired of the BS about smoking and the laws enacted to ban it.
Bob Maxey is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old August 15th, 2012, 02:02 PM   #3 (permalink)
Resident Linux Nutcase
 
Prinny's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Greenville, SC
Gender: Male
Posts: 3,479
 
Device(s): Samsung Galaxy Note LTE
Carrier: T-Mobile

Thanks: 653
Thanked 1,037 Times in 721 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Maxey View Post
And once the smoker is gone, they will come after something else. Like transfats or banning the use of salt in NYC. State Assemblyman Felix Ortiz wanted all salt banned.

I am tired of the BS about smoking and the laws enacted to ban it.
I can agree to an extent.

Smokers are people, too, and deserve rights as well.

That being said, I can agree with no smoking in places. Some, at least. If you go to eat out, fine, I understand no smoking in a food establishment. Totally understandable. What about bars, though? I mean the hole in the wall, dives. Not a nice pub, I mean the place that you walk into, and you smell vomit, urine, etc. I think you go to a place like that, you should expect people smoking in it.

And the hundred feet from the door thing is a little stupid, in my opinion. That puts them in the road, or in front of another building, usually.

Just my opinion.
__________________
Want to brighten my day? Feel free to donate
Prinny is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old August 15th, 2012, 02:15 PM   #4 (permalink)
Senior Member
 
Bob Maxey's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 4,837
 
Device(s):
Carrier: Not Provided

Thanks: 381
Thanked 811 Times in 641 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Prinny View Post
I can agree to an extent.

Smokers are people, too, and deserve rights as well.

That being said, I can agree with no smoking in places. Some, at least. If you go to eat out, fine, I understand no smoking in a food establishment. Totally understandable. What about bars, though? I mean the hole in the wall, dives. Not a nice pub, I mean the place that you walk into, and you smell vomit, urine, etc. I think you go to a place like that, you should expect people smoking in it.

And the hundred feet from the door thing is a little stupid, in my opinion. That puts them in the road, or in front of another building, usually.

Just my opinion.
What is happening is the right to run your business your way is being eliminated. In Utah, there is no indoor smoking, period. If the patrons smoke, the servers smoke ( or do not care about smoke) the customers want to smoke, you can't let them smoke.

These laws are created by people that do not like smokers. There is still no concrete proof that SC smoke is a serious problem. Some high and mighty types simply do not like us and they want to eliminate us.
Bob Maxey is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old August 15th, 2012, 02:18 PM   #5 (permalink)
Resident Linux Nutcase
 
Prinny's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Greenville, SC
Gender: Male
Posts: 3,479
 
Device(s): Samsung Galaxy Note LTE
Carrier: T-Mobile

Thanks: 653
Thanked 1,037 Times in 721 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Maxey View Post
What is happening is the right to run your business your way is being eliminated. In Utah, there is no indoor smoking, period. If the patrons smoke, the servers smoke ( or do not care about smoke) the customers want to smoke, you can't let them smoke.

These laws are created by people that do not like smokers. There is still no concrete proof that SC smoke is a serious problem. Some high and mighty types simply do not like us and they want to eliminate us.
My statement still stands, but I agree with your posts as well. We can't find middle ground, because that would make sense. This is America, where we tell you your rights! Screw what you think, its what the suits want. More or less.
Prinny is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old August 15th, 2012, 02:23 PM   #6 (permalink)
Senior Member
 
Bob Maxey's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 4,837
 
Device(s):
Carrier: Not Provided

Thanks: 381
Thanked 811 Times in 641 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Prinny View Post
My statement still stands, but I agree with your posts as well. We can't find middle ground, because that would make sense. This is America, where we tell you your rights! Screw what you think, its what the suits want. More or less.
I say we need to allow smokers places to drink and smoke and if the non-smoker does not want to deal with smoke, they can go somewhere else. Seems reasonable. We retain our right to use a legal product and the haters can gather in the fresh air.

As it is now, I'll smoke while walking across a parking lot. I'll smoke while waiting for the train, I'll smoke in the park at 3 AM and I will not care about the whiners who go out of their way to complain.
Bob Maxey is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old August 15th, 2012, 02:26 PM   #7 (permalink)
Resident Linux Nutcase
 
Prinny's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Greenville, SC
Gender: Male
Posts: 3,479
 
Device(s): Samsung Galaxy Note LTE
Carrier: T-Mobile

Thanks: 653
Thanked 1,037 Times in 721 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Maxey View Post
I say we need to allow smokers places to drink and smoke and if the non-smoker does not want to deal with smoke, they can go somewhere else. Seems reasonable. We retain our right to use a legal product and the haters can gather in the fresh air.

As it is now, I'll smoke while walking across a parking lot. I'll smoke while waiting for the train, I'll smoke in the park at 3 AM and I will not care about the whiners who go out of their way to complain.
I agree. Like I said, in a fancy place of eating, sure. I can understand that. But a bar...come on. Smokers need rights, too. It's discrimination, really. I mean, if we based it on gender, it wouldn't last. Smokers, though. OH LAWD THEY ARE AN ABOMINATION.
Prinny is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old August 16th, 2012, 01:49 PM   #8 (permalink)
Junior Member
 
Jordan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Midwest U.S.A's best state of Iowa. :)
Posts: 72
 
Device(s): Droid Razr
Carrier: Not Provided

Thanks: 33
Thanked 26 Times in 17 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Maxey View Post
And once the smoker is gone, they will come after something else. Like transfats or banning the use of salt in NYC. State Assemblyman Felix Ortiz wanted all salt banned.

I am tired of the BS about smoking and the laws enacted to ban it.
Smoking isn't just about the smoker. It seems to me that it is about the same as drunk driving, which is about everybody in the drunk's path. We all breathe smoker's exhaled gasses and we all are at risk to getting crashed into by impaired drivers. That is one of the reasons the laws are in place and of course there are many other reasons.

No bs.
Jordan is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old August 16th, 2012, 02:47 PM   #9 (permalink)
Senior Member
 
Rico ANDROID's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: In Cell Phone SIMetery
Posts: 3,569
 
Device(s): GALAXY NOTE 2 .(aka T.E.D.6)....ROOTED!
Carrier: A Bentley Carries Me

Thanks: 4,405
Thanked 1,670 Times in 1,238 Posts
Default

I can "accept" certain restrictions on where onencan smoke. Example, I wouldnt want a baby to have to be exposed to a smothering room of smoke if its a family oriented venue. Heh-heh for a few yrs I used to drive passed this "smoke shop" to and from work...took some time later, say a year or more to hear forthe first time, it "aint" for ciggys. Howbcome theres no "stogie parlors" where folks can go and smoke to their hearts content.


Now to my RANT: WHERE does newyork get off telling us what size bottle of sodapop we are allowed to purchase/consume? Is it for revenue? I mean, (if I was hooked) and they banned,say a 2ltr size cola. Well I will be dag nabbit if I dont go purchase 2 x 1liters...may cost more but still getting my quantity.

I can understand regulating the safety in food inspection, etc, but I do not get the gubment telling us the package size of products we buy with our money....
Rico ANDROID is offline  
Last edited by Rico ANDROID; August 16th, 2012 at 03:01 PM.
Reply With Quote
Old August 16th, 2012, 03:42 PM   #10 (permalink)
Junior Member
 
Jordan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Midwest U.S.A's best state of Iowa. :)
Posts: 72
 
Device(s): Droid Razr
Carrier: Not Provided

Thanks: 33
Thanked 26 Times in 17 Posts
Default

To tell you the truth I am not so sure I like anti smoking laws anyway because I think back to before that and I still did what I do now which is avoid and not allow in my house.

The drunk driving laws well there is more immediate damage there so the use of those two things together to make the point is exagerating by me. Did it work for any of you?
Jordan is offline  
Reply With Quote
sponsored links
Old August 16th, 2012, 03:47 PM   #11 (permalink)
Senior Member
 
Bob Maxey's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 4,837
 
Device(s):
Carrier: Not Provided

Thanks: 381
Thanked 811 Times in 641 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rico ANDROID View Post
Howbcome theres no "stogie parlors" where folks can go and smoke to their hearts content.


Now to my RANT: WHERE does newyork get off telling us what size bottle of sodapop we are allowed to purchase/consume? Is it for revenue? I mean, (if I was hooked) and they banned,say a 2ltr size cola. Well I will be dag nabbit if I dont go purchase 2 x 1liters...may cost more but still getting my quantity.

I can understand regulating the safety in food inspection, etc, but I do not get the gubment telling us the package size of products we buy with our money....
I agree, keep the babies away from the smoke except for this kid:

Indonesian baby on 40 cigarettes a day - YouTube

As for "stogie parlors" they are essentially illegal in my state. This is one of my biggest issues. You cannot create an indoor space where people can smoke. You cannot create a smokers only bar. If you own a business you cannot smoke in your office and a few local companies will not hire you if you smoke and if a few do hire you, they ban smoking in your car or in front of the building.

As for NYC banning sugary big gulps, good for them. There should also be a huge fine and your kids taken away if your urine tests positive for big gulps. With Obama care rolling out, I now have a right to tell large women to stop with the triple size orders. I am paying for it, after all.

Welcome to the bans that started with smoking. Yes, apparently the gubberment can dictate your soda sizes. And if you can have salt and transfats and certain sugars that are like every other consumer sugar.

The government wanted to control your thermostats as well.

The government wanted to ban farm chores for kids in rural places, too.

They want to ban potatoes in school lunches and limit how many potatoes you can purchase with government assistance.

Watch for these things and vote those that propose and support such bans out of office. Here in Utah, the local government wanted to charge us for rain water. Not a ban, but is that right? They say the water will fall on Utah and therefore, it is owned by Utah.

Hatch wanted to install devices on your PC to automatically wipe your HDD if the program discovers illegal IP.

Watch for those bans because it will not stop with those things you hate. Eventually, someone will ban something you like and do not look to me for sympathy. I warned you.
Rico ANDROID likes this.
Bob Maxey is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old August 16th, 2012, 04:16 PM   #12 (permalink)
Senior Member
 
Rico ANDROID's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: In Cell Phone SIMetery
Posts: 3,569
 
Device(s): GALAXY NOTE 2 .(aka T.E.D.6)....ROOTED!
Carrier: A Bentley Carries Me

Thanks: 4,405
Thanked 1,670 Times in 1,238 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Maxey View Post
I agree, keep the babies away from the smoke except for this kid:

Indonesian baby on 40 cigarettes a day - YouTube

As for "stogie parlors" they are essentially illegal in my state. This is one of my biggest issues. You cannot create an indoor space where people can smoke. You cannot create a smokers only bar. If you own a business you cannot smoke in your office and a few local companies will not hire you if you smoke and if a few do hire you, they ban smoking in your car or in front of the building.

As for NYC banning sugary big gulps, good for them. There should also be a huge fine and your kids taken away if your urine tests positive for big gulps. With Obama care rolling out, I now have a right to tell large women to stop with the triple size orders. I am paying for it, after all.

Welcome to the bans that started with smoking. Yes, apparently the gubberment can dictate your soda sizes. And if you can have salt and transfats and certain sugars that are like every other consumer sugar.

The government wanted to control your thermostats as well.

The government wanted to ban farm chores for kids in rural places, too.

They want to ban potatoes in school lunches and limit how many potatoes you can purchase with government assistance.

Watch for these things and vote those that propose and support such bans out of office. Here in Utah, the local government wanted to charge us for rain water. Not a ban, but is that right? They say the water will fall on Utah and therefore, it is owned by Utah.

Hatch wanted to install devices on your PC to automatically wipe your HDD if the program discovers illegal IP.

Watch for those bans because it will not stop with those things you hate. Eventually, someone will ban something you like and do not look to me for sympathy. I warned you.
Whoa! Now THAT video would make ME quit (if I smoked). But it was an entertaining clip

You are right. Controling what goes on in one's private home is "a Big Brother Rant" for me. While I am.appreciative that health coverage is being made available for some in need, there are the well deserved which i would pay out of my own pocket ifi had the means, but, there will always be those who takes advantage of everyrhing if theres an opportunity.

I am talking about from Ken Lay , Madoff all the way to a local misusing federal funds, I.ll rant to that.


But, uh..I am afraid you are on your own if you got da "choopas" to tell a "big boned woman" she need to scoot back from the trough...you brave!

Mama Bell Sez.....


"..You say I caint eat WHAT?!..."
Rico ANDROID is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old August 16th, 2012, 06:52 PM   #13 (permalink)
Junior Member
 
Jordan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Midwest U.S.A's best state of Iowa. :)
Posts: 72
 
Device(s): Droid Razr
Carrier: Not Provided

Thanks: 33
Thanked 26 Times in 17 Posts
Default

Ha oh that is a great pic!
Rico ANDROID likes this.
Jordan is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old August 18th, 2012, 04:04 PM   #14 (permalink)
Resident Linux Nutcase
 
Prinny's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Greenville, SC
Gender: Male
Posts: 3,479
 
Device(s): Samsung Galaxy Note LTE
Carrier: T-Mobile

Thanks: 653
Thanked 1,037 Times in 721 Posts
Default

Thanks, Early! T'is a perfect thread.

Maybe its me, I mean. I'm an occasional smoker. When I smoke, its usually where I won't bother anyone. (In my yard, far end of a parking lot, etc.)

So why the 100 feet away rule? Not all smokers are for lack of a better term *****ebags (though some are.) I mean, like I stated. I understand no smoking in an eatery. But seriously, this whole "ban stuff for the people" kick is kind of stupid. As stated, smokers are people. Sure, I understand people don't want to be in a closed room with it while eating. But outside? Move. There's the whole world, why bother someone else.

What else has the government banned?

Books, the internet, etc.

Where will it stop is my question?
Prinny is offline  
Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to Prinny For This Useful Post:
Rico ANDROID (August 19th, 2012)
Old August 18th, 2012, 05:05 PM   #15 (permalink)
Senior Member
 
Rachel A's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: In front of my S3
Gender: Female
Posts: 2,459
 
Device(s): VZW GS3 4.0.4 Rooted, Droid Incredible (Retired) , Motorola Xoom 4.0.4 (Unrooted)
Carrier: Not Provided

Thanks: 607
Thanked 869 Times in 637 Posts
Default

Well, if Apple have their way, we'd be banned from our 'droids....
Rico ANDROID likes this.
__________________
If I helped you then please consider thanking me. A thanks produces lots of warm and fuzzies and is cheaper and easier than buying me a round of booze.
Rachel A is offline  
Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to Rachel A For This Useful Post:
Rico ANDROID (August 19th, 2012)
Old August 18th, 2012, 05:08 PM   #16 (permalink)
Resident Linux Nutcase
 
Prinny's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Greenville, SC
Gender: Male
Posts: 3,479
 
Device(s): Samsung Galaxy Note LTE
Carrier: T-Mobile

Thanks: 653
Thanked 1,037 Times in 721 Posts
Default

Here's my take on the whole "LULZ SAMSUNG COPIED US" idiocy...

If we didn't all copy someone else, we'd all still be in a loincloth, grunting at each other.

Seriously, Apple? You want to patent a RECTANGLE? Pretty sure that was made way before you guys came around...
Rico ANDROID likes this.
Prinny is offline  
Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to Prinny For This Useful Post:
Rico ANDROID (August 19th, 2012)
Old August 19th, 2012, 10:58 AM   #17 (permalink)
Senior Member
 
Rico ANDROID's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: In Cell Phone SIMetery
Posts: 3,569
 
Device(s): GALAXY NOTE 2 .(aka T.E.D.6)....ROOTED!
Carrier: A Bentley Carries Me

Thanks: 4,405
Thanked 1,670 Times in 1,238 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rachel_Ambler View Post
Well, if Apple have their way, we'd be banned from our 'droids....
To add to that: IF Apple Had their way, everybody's sweet grandma's would be sued, fined and probably jailed for "patented infringements" for calling their tasty homemade dishes "apple" pie. Hayale, if Apple had their way, they would find a way to sue even "EVE" for using that "apple" (or was it a pear?) without written conscent.

Rachel A likes this.
Rico ANDROID is offline  
Last edited by Rico ANDROID; August 19th, 2012 at 11:22 AM.
Reply With Quote
Old August 19th, 2012, 05:56 PM   #18 (permalink)
Resident Linux Nutcase
 
Prinny's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Greenville, SC
Gender: Male
Posts: 3,479
 
Device(s): Samsung Galaxy Note LTE
Carrier: T-Mobile

Thanks: 653
Thanked 1,037 Times in 721 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rico ANDROID View Post
To add to that: IF Apple Had their way, everybody's sweet grandma's would be sued, fined and probably jailed for "patented infringements" for calling their tasty homemade dishes "apple" pie. Hayale, if Apple had their way, they would find a way to sue even "EVE" for using that "apple" (or was it a pear?) without written conscent.

Rico.I'm gonna sue you. Copy right. See, I have skin, so do you. I trademarked that. Sorry.
Rico ANDROID likes this.
Prinny is offline  
Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to Prinny For This Useful Post:
Rico ANDROID (August 19th, 2012)
Old August 19th, 2012, 07:39 PM   #19 (permalink)
Senior Member
 
Rico ANDROID's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: In Cell Phone SIMetery
Posts: 3,569
 
Device(s): GALAXY NOTE 2 .(aka T.E.D.6)....ROOTED!
Carrier: A Bentley Carries Me

Thanks: 4,405
Thanked 1,670 Times in 1,238 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Prinny View Post
Rico.I'm gonna sue you. Copy right. See, I have skin, so do you. I trademarked that. Sorry.
ROFL!...Madea! Is that you? Whatchoo doing with a Member account and logged onto AndroidForums! What a small world!

Prinny likes this.
Rico ANDROID is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old August 19th, 2012, 09:34 PM   #20 (permalink)
Senior Member
 
Rico ANDROID's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: In Cell Phone SIMetery
Posts: 3,569
 
Device(s): GALAXY NOTE 2 .(aka T.E.D.6)....ROOTED!
Carrier: A Bentley Carries Me

Thanks: 4,405
Thanked 1,670 Times in 1,238 Posts
Default

Looks like Apple lost some of its glamour and the presiding Judge did not hold back lashing out at apple's attornies tactic to"overwhelm with mountains of papers & useless documents!
Rico ANDROID is offline  
Last edited by Rico ANDROID; August 19th, 2012 at 09:36 PM.
Reply With Quote
sponsored links
Old August 20th, 2012, 12:22 PM   #21 (permalink)
I ain't nobody!
 
saptech's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Third Stone from the Sun
Posts: 3,542
 
Device(s): Motorola Moto G, Samsung Stratosphere, Galaxy Tab 2 SE.
Carrier: T-Mobile

Thanks: 572
Thanked 768 Times in 612 Posts
Default

It seems now days it's going to be illegal to smoke but you can buy them all you want. I don't understand why they won't outlaw tabacco instead of coming up with these stupid laws against it.

I know, I know, they making tax money off of it. That is why I say buy all you want, just dont light up!
__________________
Like it is...Yusef Lateef
saptech is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old August 20th, 2012, 12:51 PM   #22 (permalink)
Senior Member
 
Rico ANDROID's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: In Cell Phone SIMetery
Posts: 3,569
 
Device(s): GALAXY NOTE 2 .(aka T.E.D.6)....ROOTED!
Carrier: A Bentley Carries Me

Thanks: 4,405
Thanked 1,670 Times in 1,238 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by saptech View Post
It seems now days it's going to be illegal to smoke but you can buy them all you want. I don't understand why they won't outlaw tabacco instead of coming up with these stupid laws against it.

I know, I know, they making tax money off of it. That is why I say buy all you want, just dont light up!
That's similar to the illegal possession or use of the face zombies fav "bath salts". The law was (or still is): its not illegal to "sale" bathsalts, just dont get caught "with" it. I hope the loophole has been closed by now, but a distributor could sale it all day then the leagle system lock you up for buying/using it.

(looks like Zombi-Seth utilized the "dealer clause" and escaped a close call!)

"Whut?...Me? Naw, I aint using it, I'm SELL'N!.."
Rico ANDROID is offline  
Last edited by Rico ANDROID; August 20th, 2012 at 12:54 PM.
Reply With Quote
Reply


Go Back   Android Forums > Android Community > The Lounge > Politics and Current Affairs
Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 05:47 AM.
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.