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Old August 23rd, 2012, 03:20 AM   #1 (permalink)
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Default Texas Officials: Prepare For Civil War if Obama is Re elected

The lunatic fringe has been located, and it's in Lubbock, Texas. Once again, you can't make this stuff up. Huge shock this is happening in Texas, btw.

Texas official warns of Obama civil war | _

A Lubbock County, Texas, judge is asking for a tax increase to hire deputies for the inevitable civil war he believes would follow President Obama’s re-election.

The way he puts it, Judge Tom Head wants to prepare for the “worst”, which to him means “civil unrest, civil disobedience” and possible “civil war”, according to a report from Fox 34 Lubbock

Judge Tom Head and Commissioner Mark Heinrich told the station this week that a 1.7 cent tax increase for the next fiscal year was necessary to prepare for many contingencies, including Obama’s re-election. He also mentioned to the station that the county needs a pay increase is needed for the district attorney’s office and more funds to pay for more sheriff’s office deputies.
“He’s going to try to hand over the sovereignty of the United States to the (United Nations), and what is going to happen when that happens?,” Head asked the station during a Monday interview. “I’m thinking the worst. Civil unrest, civil disobedience, civil war maybe. And we’re not just talking a few riots here and demonstrations, we’re talking Lexington, Concord, take up arms and get rid of the guy.”

Head also seems to fear the retaliation of such civil unrest.

“Now what’s going to happen if we do that, if the public decides to do that? He’s going to send inU.N. troops. I don’t want ‘em in Lubbock County. OK. So I’m going to stand in front of their armored personnel carrier and say ‘you’re not coming in here’.

“And the sheriff, I’ve already asked him, I said ‘you gonna back me’ he said, ‘yeah, I’ll back you’. Well, I don’t want a bunch of rookies back there. I want trained, equipped, seasoned veteran officers to back me.”

The station reports that the tax hike will provide an additional $832,433 coupled with $2 million in cuts to make the numbers work.

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Old August 23rd, 2012, 03:27 AM   #2 (permalink)
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A well-known news analyst has often observed that about half of all Americans have NO clue what is going in in this country, or pretty much anything in public affairs, government, political issues, all the rest. Just NO clue.

In MY view, it is no accident. People just really don't care, by and large. For most Americans, life is basically going to work if you have a job, getting a paycheck, having a beer, and watching "American Idol" or "Rat Bastards". All the rest--no interest whatsoever. Politics? That's for losers. Local governance? Only for even bigger losers.

Yet these idiots might go & vote. Or even worse, will be dragged out of the bars or living room or homeless shelters by campaign workers on election day, taken to a polling place, and then exercise the God-given, hard-won Constitutional right to vote. Yeah, right! Idiots who have NO business voting for anything. This is a crazy country, and still we think wrongly, that this is the greatest nation on Earth.
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Old August 23rd, 2012, 04:42 AM   #3 (permalink)
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To me, the people who know just a little are more dangerous than those who know nothing. That's how they get people to vote against their own self interests. The Republicans trick working class people into voting for them by throwing them a bone about guns or abortion or gays. The people really in charge of the party could care less about that stuff, they only care about making themselves and their buddies even richer.
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Old August 23rd, 2012, 07:35 AM   #4 (permalink)
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To me, the people who know just a little are more dangerous than those who know nothing. That's how they get people to vote against their own self interests. The Republicans trick working class people into voting for them by throwing them a bone about guns or abortion or gays. The people really in charge of the party could care less about that stuff, they only care about making themselves and their buddies even richer.
Don't kid yourself that the Democrats are any different. The Democrats trick working class people into voting for them by throwing them a bone about how they're going to make them rich and give them more government services that those horrible rich people will have to pay for. They couldn't care less about those people and only want the power and wealth that comes with being in charge. Both parties are so corrupt it's ridiculous. Choosing which party to back is like deciding if you'd rather have the electric chair or the firing squad.
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Old August 23rd, 2012, 11:14 AM   #5 (permalink)
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This is a perfect candidate for #2 of 5 Ways to Spot a B.S. Political Story in Under 10 Seconds.
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Old August 23rd, 2012, 03:51 PM   #6 (permalink)
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This is a perfect candidate for #2 of 5 Ways to Spot a B.S. Political Story in Under 10 Seconds.
Well, the guy is a county judge About Tom Head, candidate Lubbock County Judge - KCBD NewsChannel 11 Lubbock and has the support of LE Texas judge warns of U.S. 'civil war' - Mackenzie Weinger - POLITICO.com

Let's see, one that can arrest you, one that can put you in jail. Don't think these guys are B.S.ing
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Old August 23rd, 2012, 05:38 PM   #7 (permalink)
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The guy is a judge in a county of less than 300,000 people. So yeah, he's a minor official who's talking out his ass and the press is overblowing it for political reason. That would seem like an accurate assessment.
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Old August 23rd, 2012, 06:21 PM   #8 (permalink)
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The guy is a judge in a county of less than 300,000 people. So yeah, he's a minor official who's talking out his ass and the press is overblowing it for political reason. That would seem like an accurate assessment.
I agree when the term blowing is used I think of Faux New, which gave this guy the national spotlight.

This elected Judge is a politician, so the political reasoning of said judge is reflecting a great deal of the Republican base.

Judge Tom Head: His Poor Impulse Control Is A Painful Embarrassment for Lubbock | Lubbock Online | Lubbock Avalanche-Journal

"The extreme Right Wing of the Republican Party; the Eagle Forum and John Birch Society members, are poisoning what used to be a group of solid citizens just a few years ago. It’s like a scene from an old movie, Invasion of the Body Snatchers."
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Old August 23rd, 2012, 06:31 PM   #9 (permalink)
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I agree when the term blowing is used I think of Faux New, which gave this guy the national spotlight.

This elected Judge is a politician, so the political reasoning of said judge is reflecting a great deal of the Republican base.

Judge Tom Head: His Poor Impulse Control Is A Painful Embarrassment for Lubbock | Lubbock Online | Lubbock Avalanche-Journal

"The extreme Right Wing of the Republican Party; the Eagle Forum and John Birch Society members, are poisoning what used to be a group of solid citizens just a few years ago. It’s like a scene from an old movie, Invasion of the Body Snatchers."
You're absolutely right. One minor official with no legislative power from a county with a population that's less than most major cities represents the ENTIRE Republican party.
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Old August 24th, 2012, 04:20 AM   #10 (permalink)
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You're absolutely right. One minor official with no legislative power from a county with a population that's less than most major cities represents the ENTIRE Republican party.
Just the base.
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Old August 24th, 2012, 06:19 AM   #11 (permalink)
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I'm just curious, does anyone here actually believe that Obama would want to hand over US sovereignty to the UN? Why? Unless these people really think he's the antichrist or something it makes no sense. Whether you agree with his policies or not, I don't understand why so many people are convinced that Obama is bent on intentionally destroying the country. I agreed with almost nothing that Bush II did, but I never thought he wanted to ruin America on purpose. This judge may seem like just some isolated wacko, but just listen to some talk radio for any length of time, and you'll realize that there are lots of these nut jobs out there who truly believe this stuff. This guy is an elected judge with a sheriff backing him up. I don't care if it's a small county or not, that's scary.
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Old August 24th, 2012, 06:26 AM   #12 (permalink)
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Don't kid yourself that the Democrats are any different. The Democrats trick working class people into voting for them by throwing them a bone about how they're going to make them rich and give them more government services that those horrible rich people will have to pay for. They couldn't care less about those people and only want the power and wealth that comes with being in charge. Both parties are so corrupt it's ridiculous. Choosing which party to back is like deciding if you'd rather have the electric chair or the firing squad.
I have no illusions that the Democrats are squeaky clean. No government, party, religion or any other organization is free from corruption because they are groups of people, and humans are basically pretty horrible creatures. I happen to think the owners of the Democrats are a little more tolerable, but I'm not beholden to anyone.
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Old August 24th, 2012, 06:50 AM   #13 (permalink)
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It seems to me that most Americans have no idea what the UN is. It is not a sovereign confederation. It is an international organisation made up of most of the worlds nation states. Even if he wanted to, Obama could not hand over federal sovereignty to the UN. Its just impossible.

And 300,000 people seems like a big number to me, that's more than live in my city...
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Old August 24th, 2012, 07:21 AM   #14 (permalink)
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I'm just curious, does anyone here actually believe that Obama would want to hand over US sovereignty to the UN? Why? Unless these people really think he's the antichrist or something it makes no sense. Whether you agree with his policies or not, I don't understand why so many people are convinced that Obama is bent on intentionally destroying the country. I agreed with almost nothing that Bush II did, but I never thought he wanted to ruin America on purpose. This judge may seem like just some isolated wacko, but just listen to some talk radio for any length of time, and you'll realize that there are lots of these nut jobs out there who truly believe this stuff. This guy is an elected judge with a sheriff backing him up. I don't care if it's a small county or not, that's scary.
Same reason people like Outofdate1980 think the Republicans are evil tycoons holed up in a board room somewhere twirling their mustaches and conspiring to ruin poor people's lives. It's political rhetoric carried to the extreme.

Sadly there are people on both sides who lack the ability to see anything other than their side. Republicans could propose a bill that would declare that all kittens are cute. Half the country would not only vote against it but rail about the evilness of cats. You would hear how cats were traditionally familiars for witches. Then you would hear questions about how a party of family values like the Republicans could support witchcraft. Also, did you know that witches sacrifice babies sometimes? And other small animals? How could Republicans support human sacrifice? What kind of people are they?

It is more than a little insane.

Anyway, I pulled up the actual election results. 38,547 people voted for Tom Head. He ran against a libertarian and a Democrat and won close to 80% of the vote. So a guy supported by 38,547 people (less than the population of a lot of towns) represents the entire Republican base. That makes sense.
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Old August 24th, 2012, 07:33 AM   #15 (permalink)
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Same reason people like Outofdate1980 think the Republicans are evil tycoons holed up in a board room somewhere twirling their mustaches and conspiring to ruin poor people's lives. It's political rhetoric carried to the extreme.

Sadly there are people on both sides who lack the ability to see anything other than their side. Republicans could propose a bill that would declare that all kittens are cute. Half the country would not only vote against it but rail about the evilness of cats. You would hear how cats were traditionally familiars for witches. Then you would hear questions about how a party of family values like the Republicans could support witchcraft. Also, did you know that witches sacrifice babies sometimes? And other small animals? How could Republicans support human sacrifice? What kind of people are they?

It is more than a little insane.

Anyway, I pulled up the actual election results. 38,547 people voted for Tom Head. He ran against a libertarian and a Democrat and won close to 80% of the vote. So a guy supported by 38,547 people (less than the population of a lot of towns) represents the entire Republican base. That makes sense.
For example, Obama directly stole his health care plan from the Republican nominee for president who he's running against, but somehow now it's an evil, socialist, "government takeover of the heath care industry". In reality it's a giveaway to the insurance companies.
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Old August 24th, 2012, 08:09 AM   #16 (permalink)
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For example, Obama directly stole his health care plan from the Republican nominee for president who he's running against, but somehow now it's an evil, socialist, "government takeover of the heath care industry". In reality it's a giveaway to the insurance companies.
I have heard Democrats rail about how evil Romney's healthcare plan is. Frankly I will vote for the first candidate who has a realistic chance of winning and promises to leave me the f--- alone and not try to fix my life. I am a grown man. I am perfectly capable of fixing my own life thank you very much.
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Old August 24th, 2012, 12:43 PM   #17 (permalink)
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I'm just curious, does anyone here actually believe that Obama would want to hand over US sovereignty to the UN? Why? Unless these people really think he's the antichrist or something it makes no sense. Whether you agree with his policies or not, I don't understand why so many people are convinced that Obama is bent on intentionally destroying the country. I agreed with almost nothing that Bush II did, but I never thought he wanted to ruin America on purpose. This judge may seem like just some isolated wacko, but just listen to some talk radio for any length of time, and you'll realize that there are lots of these nut jobs out there who truly believe this stuff. This guy is an elected judge with a sheriff backing him up. I don't care if it's a small county or not, that's scary.
Because lying works, if repeated enough.

Robert Reich: Romney's Lying Machine

"I've been struck by the baldness of Romney's repetitive lies about Obama -- that Obama ended the work requirement under welfare, for example, or that Obama's Affordable Care Act cuts $716 billion from Medicare benefits.

The mainstream media along with a half-dozen independent fact-checking organizations and sites have called Romney on these whoppers, but to no avail. He keeps making these assertions."

"Romney's lying machine is extraordinarily well financed. By August, according to Jane Mayer in her recent New Yorker article, at least 33 billionaires had each donated a quarter of a million dollars or more to groups aiming to defeat Obama -- with most of it flooding into attack ads in swing states."
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Old August 24th, 2012, 06:24 PM   #18 (permalink)
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Because lying works, if repeated enough.

Robert Reich: Romney's Lying Machine

"I've been struck by the baldness of Romney's repetitive lies about Obama -- that Obama ended the work requirement under welfare, for example, or that Obama's Affordable Care Act cuts $716 billion from Medicare benefits.

The mainstream media along with a half-dozen independent fact-checking organizations and sites have called Romney on these whoppers, but to no avail. He keeps making these assertions."

"Romney's lying machine is extraordinarily well financed. By August, according to Jane Mayer in her recent New Yorker article, at least 33 billionaires had each donated a quarter of a million dollars or more to groups aiming to defeat Obama -- with most of it flooding into attack ads in swing states."
Yeah, I live in Ohio and have to endure these ads every five minutes. I have been surprised by how blatant the lies are. To distort or spin the truth in your favor is one thing, that's politics, but these guys are just shameless.
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Old August 24th, 2012, 06:43 PM   #19 (permalink)
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Because lying works, if repeated enough.

Robert Reich: Romney's Lying Machine

"I've been struck by the baldness of Romney's repetitive lies about Obama -- that Obama ended the work requirement under welfare, for example, or that Obama's Affordable Care Act cuts $716 billion from Medicare benefits.

The mainstream media along with a half-dozen independent fact-checking organizations and sites have called Romney on these whoppers, but to no avail. He keeps making these assertions."

"Romney's lying machine is extraordinarily well financed. By August, according to Jane Mayer in her recent New Yorker article, at least 33 billionaires had each donated a quarter of a million dollars or more to groups aiming to defeat Obama -- with most of it flooding into attack ads in swing states."
Like the GOP wants to push granny down a rocky hill, want dirt air and water, hate gays.....have you heard what the DNC chairman's been saying.....you're kidding right? Or incredibly naive.

The richest lie is that Bush got us in this mess. No. The mortgage crises got us in this mess.
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Old August 24th, 2012, 07:16 PM   #20 (permalink)
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Yeah, I live in Ohio and have to endure these ads every five minutes.
I dont even understand how broadcasting regulators allow so much political advertising.
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Old August 25th, 2012, 05:32 AM   #21 (permalink)
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Same reason people like Outofdate1980 think the Republicans are evil tycoons holed up in a board room somewhere twirling their mustaches and conspiring to ruin poor people's lives. It's political rhetoric carried to the extreme.
Amazing, there's a mind reader among us. Here I've been wasting resources developing fMRI. Texas Executed Offenders

The issue is the divine right of the rich doesn't work, think of most of the human race history with royalty.

Humans are just that and we can be vicious with unchecked power, Mans inhumanity to Man has no bounds. That's why government, by the govern is important as an evolving institution.

What we are going though is the same as the American Civil War, the south had an economic base of agriculture, i.e. rent (Capital/Labor intense) which is why people were defined as property, with no right of compensation for labor. The north had an economic base of manufacturing, i.e. labor (Labor/Capital intense) which is why people were defined as free agents to determine their own compensation for labor. Both sides were wrong due to asymmetrical choice options.

Today the Republicans have an economic base of resource extraction, i.e. fossil fuels, finance (Capital/Labor intense). The Democrats have an economic base with technology, information (Labor/Capital intense).


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Anyway, I pulled up the actual election results. 38,547 people voted for Tom Head. He ran against a libertarian and a Democrat and won close to 80% of the vote. So a guy supported by 38,547 people (less than the population of a lot of towns) represents the entire Republican base. That makes sense.
Tom Head is a reflection of the information he was exposed to. If you Google Civil War Obama prior to his interview, he was just repeating the information known to him.
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Old August 25th, 2012, 07:55 AM   #22 (permalink)
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I dont even understand how broadcasting regulators allow so much political advertising.
To my knowledge the only limitation on it is that both sides are entitled to equal time. If you give party A a 1 min ad, then party B is entitled to a 1 min ad (assuming they pay for it of course). Basically stations can't decide that they are going to back Candidate Jones and deny Candidate Smith any advertising. Beyond that I don't think there are any limitations on the actual number of ads. Political season is the worst because there are so many political ads, they are everywhere and every one of them is a pack of lies.
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Old August 25th, 2012, 08:56 AM   #23 (permalink)
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Amazing, there's a mind reader among us. Here I've been wasting resources developing fMRI. Texas Executed Offenders

The issue is the divine right of the rich doesn't work, think of most of the human race history with royalty.
Divine right refers to God and his 'chosen' leadership of a country. As they say you are entitled to your own opinion but not facts. Wealth is economically derived with no connection to whatever to God. Ironically you are arguing God is responsible for choosing who is wealthy. The issue you are claiming doesn't work because it doesn't exist.

Quote:
Humans are just that and we can be vicious and given unchecked power, Mans inhumanity to Man has no bounds. That's why government, by the govern is important as an evolving institution.

What we are going though is the same as the American Civil War, the south had an economic base of agriculture, i.e. rent (Capital/Labor intense). The north had an economic base of manufacturing, i.e. labor (Labor/Capital intense).

Today the Republicans have an economic base of resource extraction, i.e. fossil fuels, finance (Capital/Labor intense), which is why people were defined as property, with no right of compensation for labor. The Democrats have an economic base with technology, information (Labor/Capital intense) which is why people were defined as free agents to determine their own compensation for labor. Both sides were wrong due to asymmetrical choice options.
'Today.....Republicans have base of capital and labor....people defined as property....no right for compensation for labor.'

This is where I stopped reading. Makes no sense.
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Old August 25th, 2012, 03:34 PM   #24 (permalink)
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To my knowledge the only limitation on it is that both sides are entitled to equal time. If you give party A a 1 min ad, then party B is entitled to a 1 min ad (assuming they pay for it of course). Basically stations can't decide that they are going to back Candidate Jones and deny Candidate Smith any advertising. Beyond that I don't think there are any limitations on the actual number of ads. Political season is the worst because there are so many political ads, they are everywhere and every one of them is a pack of lies.
Only applies to free ads.

Equal-time rule - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

"This means, for example, that if a station gives one free minute to a candidate on the prime time, it must do the same for another candidate."
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Old August 26th, 2012, 01:04 AM   #25 (permalink)
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I dont even understand how broadcasting regulators allow so much political advertising.
Haven't you heard? Money is speech.
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Old August 26th, 2012, 06:43 AM   #26 (permalink)
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Haven't you heard? Money is speech.
To be fair I guess I wasn't shocked at all.
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Old August 26th, 2012, 08:12 AM   #27 (permalink)
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So, what is everybody doing to prepare for the Civil War II? I'm hoarding beer and beef jerky.
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Old August 27th, 2012, 09:51 PM   #28 (permalink)
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So, what is everybody doing to prepare for the Civil War II? I'm hoarding beer and beef jerky.
I've read red wine is better for you, need to stay healthy for those cavalry charges.
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Old August 27th, 2012, 10:20 PM   #29 (permalink)
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Imma be a slave and flip flop with sides...
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Old August 28th, 2012, 01:56 AM   #30 (permalink)
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Dumbass. Luckily he doesn't have much power.
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Old August 28th, 2012, 12:51 PM   #31 (permalink)
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I agree with A.Nonymou's comparison on picking a party.

I also firmly believe that we are flirting with a civil war. I don't buy into very much of the conjecture from any one. NWO, Fema camps and the like. I wish to not be painted with that brush.
Most of what has been discussed in this thread is the partisian bickering that all of these threads break down to. This is no accident. We are a house divided.

Throw all of the social issues out the window and look at the commonality between the last 2 administrations. Obama carried on a lot of Bush policy.

Both administrations combined have produced a net loss of civil rights.
No one can argue that many of the policies and law inacted under Bush traded freedom for security.
Franklin said any one who would do that deserved niether.

Obama let stand, reaffirmed and built on much of this security policy, to the point it appears to be a shared agenda.

On Dec 31 Big O signed a bipartisan bill he said he wouldn't. Who was watching, it was a holiday?
This Bill plainly stated says if you commit a crime against the Fed you can be stripped of due process and treated as an enemy combatant. What these crimes are is loosely difined and don't take a new Bill to change. Your senator might vote yes on a trade bill and there could be a rider that attached that defines protesting with out a permit as a crime against the Fed.

Gitmo any one?

Look at who is considered a potential domestic terrorist these days. Most of us replying to this thread make the cut.

That law is a stepping stone for a Bill that is in process right now. This bill will allow them to strip native born citizens f their citizenship. For the same vague list of crimes against the Fed.
I know some one who lost their citizenship and was deported to the country of origin even though he entered the states after 10 years living in a 3rd country. No trial no conviction, sent home and on the streets free. The insight I got into this causes a big red flag about this new Bill.
If your country of origin is the U.S. where will they deport you to. No one has to accept you. Gitmo?

Then the recent news about DHS buying large quantities of hallow point ammo is a bit alarming. Being familiar with firearms I know that the purpose of this is not training and not for military use, the type of ammo is banned by the Geneva Conv.
The Fed is expecting unrest and preparring for it openly. Track the contract bids for DHS.

Pheonix last October saw a chilling incident. After the police treatment of protester in other cities a local Militia took they threats of local officials seriously and showed up fully geared and armed and formed a skirmish line between police and the protesters. Protecting the liberty of Americans with far different beliefs.
It was beautifully patriotic, what concerns me is, what stance will thse trying to consolidate power in DC do when we stop falling for the sham of ultra partisanship.
And even more scary is if they had actually traded shots. This time it was a peacefull display. If it happens again and that is a real possibilty it would be a different city a different militia and police force. If it ended in a firefight bettween police and militia protecting protesters rights, will there be any way to curb the spiral of reactionism and rage that would follow. I don't believe there would be in the current political climate.

Yeah Gmash this Judge sounds like a wingnut and my opinion is it doesn't matter who is Elected but that doesn't mean we aren't in trouble. We need to leave all the patisan crap out of it and discuss the track freedom is on.

We are already in a Cold Civil War now. It is going to get worse with every one of these new policies and laws that chip away at freedom.
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Old August 28th, 2012, 03:09 PM   #32 (permalink)
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Well, I dont see how Obama being reelected would lead to civil war. He very conservative and moderate in general. The only thing that would lead to civil war would be states seceding. Of course then you have to ask what state(s) would be Serbia, and what ones Bosnia...
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Old August 28th, 2012, 03:24 PM   #33 (permalink)
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Well, I dont see how Obama being reelected would lead to civil war. He very conservative and moderate in general. The only thing that would lead to civil war would be states seceding. Of course then you have to ask what state(s) would be Serbia, and what ones Bosnia...
The Judge is the one conjecturing on Obama's reelction triggering it. 5hats obvious he is super imposing his political beliefs on a real problem.

A civil war does not require a State to suceed. Civil-civillian. Iraq is in the middle of a civil war and most violent revolutions are civil wars including our own. Many Brittish Loyalists fought on the side of the Monarchy.

The ultra partisan rift in this Nation is a Cold Civil War. We are divided and niether side is working to mend the rift. Both sides see their position as right and are willing to fight over it. You are with us or against us is not a far leap from you are with us or you are the enemy.
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Old August 28th, 2012, 03:34 PM   #34 (permalink)
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The Judge is the one conjecturing on Obama's reelction triggering it. 5hats obvious he is super imposing his political beliefs on a real problem.

A civil war does not require a State to suceed. Civil-civillian. Iraq is in the middle of a civil war and most violent revolutions are civil wars including our own. Many Brittish Loyalists fought on the side of the Monarchy.

The ultra partisan rift in this Nation is a Cold Civil War. We are divided and niether side is working to mend the rift. Both sides see their position as right and are willing to fight over it. You are with us or against us is not a far leap from you are with us or you are the enemy.
But I just dont see citizens taking arms against each other turning into an all out nationwide civil war. Do Americans really have that kind of personal armory?
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Old August 28th, 2012, 03:56 PM   #35 (permalink)
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But I just dont see citizens taking arms against each other turning into an all out nationwide civil war. Do Americans really have that kind of personal armory?
Do they have the armory? Yes. Do I see it happening? No.
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Old August 28th, 2012, 04:16 PM   #36 (permalink)
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But I just dont see citizens taking arms against each other turning into an all out nationwide civil war. Do Americans really have that kind of personal armory?
Yes and some are properly trained.

Anarchist Leader In Assassination Plot Was Apparently A Page At The 2008 GOP Convention - Business Insider

Aguigui allegedly started an Anarchist group that branded itself with anarchy tattoos, openly recruited, and stock piled weapons, in an alleged plot to overthrow the government and kill Barack Obama.

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Old August 28th, 2012, 04:41 PM   #37 (permalink)
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But I mean, these militias would likely be no match for the military... one would hope.
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Old August 28th, 2012, 05:12 PM   #38 (permalink)
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the guy is a idiot.
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Old August 28th, 2012, 05:49 PM   #39 (permalink)
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But I mean, these militias would likely be no match for the military... one would hope.
Well, the terrorists in Afghanistan and Iraq are no match for the military on paper. They're not as well trained. Not as well armed. But they keep hanging around.

I wouldn't be shocked if one of them has a gunship or something, but the military is going to have better air support. I wouldn't be shocked if one of these militias has an older tank. Beyond that they probably have no more armor than a tripped out Humvee. I am almost certain that when it comes to hand weapons they've got everything from handguns to RPGs stashed away somewhere.
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Old August 28th, 2012, 07:35 PM   #40 (permalink)
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Well, the terrorists in Afghanistan and Iraq are no match for the military on paper. They're not as well trained. Not as well armed. But they keep hanging around.

I wouldn't be shocked if one of them has a gunship or something, but the military is going to have better air support. I wouldn't be shocked if one of these militias has an older tank. Beyond that they probably have no more armor than a tripped out Humvee. I am almost certain that when it comes to hand weapons they've got everything from handguns to RPGs stashed away somewhere.
How about a Army base with new tanks, gunships, etc.

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Prosecutors say the group plotted to take over Fort Stewart and to bomb a dam in Washington state and poison the state's apple crop. Authorities have said the militia's ultimate goal was to overthrow the government.
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Old August 28th, 2012, 07:41 PM   #41 (permalink)
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Well, the terrorists in Afghanistan and Iraq are no match for the military on paper. They're not as well trained. Not as well armed. But they keep hanging around.
Well, thats because NATO is charged with protecting civilians.
If there was a war *against* Afghanistan, the Taliban and civilians alike would be bombed to ashes.
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Old August 28th, 2012, 07:42 PM   #42 (permalink)
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A.Nonymous beat me to the post bring up the "insurgents" in Iraq and Afghanistan.

No one is planning a head to head fight with the U.S. military. During the days of our Revolution and even our Civil war you could get a group together train and arm your self with the latest military equipment. Call your self an Army and have a Conventional War. Not any more, our rights to keep and bare arms haven't kept up with Federalism or Military technology.

You must be very careful with the word militia. Means a lot of different things depending on perspective and context.

Groups like the Hooturee or how ever they spelled it, are not militias.The Michigan Militia is a militia. Organized well regulated with their sole purpose to exist is to protect the citizens of Michigan, the United States and the Constitution from enemies Foreign or Domestic. If a militia group espouses any other rhetoric than that they are not a militia they are a paramilitary group. Is there a gray area with individual members behavior, yes. Though it probably pales compared to the same problem in the NYP.

The man who led the Feds to the Houteree criminals was a Michigan Militia commander and is a practicing Muslim. They are not anti-Government subversives.

I can guarantee that if it does come it will be exactly the same tactics as were used in Iraq and Afghanistan. It is illogical to think that our troops did not learn these tactics as they were countering them and the ranks of all paramilitary groups and militias are full of former soldiers and many active duty soldiers and National Guardsmen.

Its quite possible that if shooting starts many soldiers are going to grab what ever is portable and go over to the militias. There would be massive sabotage. Its quite possible with so many of our assets scattered around the globe that the Military and Law enforcement might not be able to keep law and order much less mount an offensive.

With tensions as high as they are now and the economy a mess it could be sparked by a small group and spiral out of control.

Look up a group called Th Oath Keepers, these are active duty law enforcement. Out west we have Sheriffs in open opposition to the Government because of the BLM. Threatening to arrest Federal Agents for r cattle theft and various other crimes and the Feds threatening long prison terms.

Then you have the occupy movement who is the far left getting back into radical tactics. Think what you want of their politics but do not dismiss the importance of it.

Speaking of them. Ignore the side shows and distraction and the core thing that Them, the militias and Anonymous are about is the loss of civil rights. The first being the most often referenced.

Anonymous. An International group of hackers who our Government is powerless to stop that could wreck havoc in this country any time they choose. They have no leadership, they are neck deep in the "Arab Spring" and have declared war on the government over the !st amendment. Today its just Ddos tomorrow it could be the power grid.

Every where you look people are pissed off at the Government, most for valid reasons.
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Old August 28th, 2012, 10:59 PM   #43 (permalink)
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Same reason people like Outofdate1980 think the Republicans are evil tycoons holed up in a board room somewhere twirling their mustaches and conspiring to ruin poor people's lives. It's political rhetoric carried to the extreme. ...
I admit I think, but have grave doubts of your clairvoyant abilities.

Ever heard how the Federal Reserve was created on Jekyll Island ?

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"A revision crafted during a secret meeting on Jekyll Island by Senator Aldrich and representatives of the nation's top finance and industrial groups later became the basis of the Federal Reserve Act.[34][35"
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Old August 29th, 2012, 04:23 AM   #44 (permalink)
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I agree with some of what PH8AL says, I was against the scare tactics Bush used to take civil rights away, and am against their being continued or built upon by Obama or anyone else.I was amazed how easily people went along with that BS in the first place. However, I still find the idea of a civil war far-fetched. Only the most fanatic and possibly mentally disturbed would kill other Americans through insurgent bombings. Most Americans are either too level headed or lazy to take up arms against the government anyway. Also as stated above, any such uprising would be squashed like a bug. I do agree that a fringe group committing strategic bombings could do damage to the economy, but no real threat to overthrow the government, even if they somehow managed to get control of one military base, which is highly unlikely itself.
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Old August 29th, 2012, 06:16 AM   #45 (permalink)
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Only the most fanatic and possibly mentally disturbed would kill other Americans through insurgent bombings. Most Americans are either too level headed or lazy to take up arms against the government anyway.
Thats kind of why one would imagine any civil war would have to be started with a secession. Even then though I doubt a proper civil war as such would occur, the only civil war in a developed country was in Yugoslavia and that was caused by a shattered economy turning into inter-ethnic distrust.
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Old August 29th, 2012, 07:04 AM   #46 (permalink)
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I don't think states would have to secede to start a civil war at all. We've seen many many civil wars historically that didn't involve secession.

There is definitely a deep seated distrust here and we've seen it in this forum. You have people who are poor and middle class who deeply distrust and even hate the rich. The people on the right hate everything the left stands for and vice versa. Both sides have their fringe groups. The economy is still in the crapper and has been for a decade despite the ministrations of both parties. I think a lot of the elements are there, but I don't see it happening.

If militia groups think they can take over a military base and/or that soldiers will defect to their sides in droves I think they are deeply mistaken. Americans as a whole deeply distrust their government, but it's a bit step between distrust and treason.
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Old August 29th, 2012, 07:11 AM   #47 (permalink)
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We've seen many many civil wars historically that didn't involve secession.
In a developed country?
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Old August 29th, 2012, 07:19 AM   #48 (permalink)
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Need to take the blinders off.

Americans kill each other over minor crap every day.

We have been indoctrinated our whole lives to believe the Fed and Military is all powerful. Simply is not true.

Our own Revolution didn't start with an army it started with a couple dozen militiamen standing up to the British in a town square. They call it the shot heard round the world.

We are being stripped of our civil rights by a Federal Government that has over stepped its mandate and it is coming quickly to the point where its stand up and fight or accept we are no longer a free people.

The answers here are scattered all through our history.

Believing it can't happen here is denial and delusion.
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Old August 29th, 2012, 07:36 AM   #49 (permalink)
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In a developed country?
Define developed.

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Need to take the blinders off.

Americans kill each other over minor crap every day.

We have been indoctrinated our whole lives to believe the Fed and Military is all powerful. Simply is not true.

Our own Revolution didn't start with an army it started with a couple dozen militiamen standing up to the British in a town square. They call it the shot heard round the world.

We are being stripped of our civil rights by a Federal Government that has over stepped its mandate and it is coming quickly to the point where its stand up and fight or accept we are no longer a free people.

The answers here are scattered all through our history.

Believing it can't happen here is denial and delusion.
Not saying they're all powerful. Just saying they've got far more firepower than any local militia does. If the military doesn't care about casualties, they can turn a militia base to dust without putting any boots on the ground. Now there would be a big PR backlash from bombing the bejesus out of your own people on your own soil, but they have the capabilities to do it. The same can't be said about the militias. It is one thing to fight a war where you are on home turf and the people you are fighting have to come over by boat from another country. It's another thing to fight a war where the enemy is literally just down the street.
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Old August 29th, 2012, 08:45 AM   #50 (permalink)
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The Brits had muskets. This is a different world. Not saying it "can't" happen, but realistically we're a long way from open rebellion in this country in my opinion. Sure, rhetoric is heated, but it always has been.
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