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Old September 14th, 2012, 06:45 PM   #1 (permalink)
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Default Muslim world: Religion is again being used as a political tool.

It appears one group religious wingnuts have been goaded by another group of religious wingnuts.

Cairo, Benghazi and beyond: Beware the false fury - Opinion - Al Jazeera English

"Attacks on embassies and rage against insult to Prophet Muhammad in the Muslim world have a frightening echo in the ears of an Iranian—remembering the US Hostage Crisis of 1979-1980 and the Salman Rushdie affair of 1988-1989—two smoke screens under which militant Islamists in Iran (some of them now among the so-called “Opposition”) hijacked a revolution and categorically recoded it as “Islamic.”

The current catastrophe called “the Islamic Republic” and the entrapment of 75 million human beings in its theocratic snare is framed between those two smoke screens—two diversionary tactics made out of events that fell on Ayatollah Khomeini’s lap.

As for 444 days the world attention was distracted by the American Hostages Crisis the belligerent lslamists went on a rampage destroying their political rivals and categorically claiming a multifaceted revolution all for themselves—and a decade later as the world attention was once again drawn to the Salman Rushdie affair the selfsame Islamists redrafted the constitution of the Islamic republic to perpetuate the reign of militant Islamists and anoint Ayatollah Khamenei as their Supreme Leader and Vali Faqih.

This was all after the late Ayatollah Montazeri (1922-2009) had repented from his role in making the Islamic republic a viable proposition, objected to the mass execution of political prisoners, and one of his family members, Seyyed Mehdi Hashemi, exposed the arms-for-hostage deal that would later be known as “the Iran Contra Affair.” Ayatollah Montazeri went to his grave having repented that gross miscalculation called “the Islamic republic,” and called the concoction “neither Islamic nor a republic”—about thirty years too late for a population of 75 million human beings now trapped inside a horrid theocracy presided by the Shi’i clerical class."

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Old September 14th, 2012, 09:40 PM   #2 (permalink)
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I believe that we need an administration that doesn’t take the bullets out of their guns.

No Live Ammo for Marines
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Old September 15th, 2012, 07:43 PM   #3 (permalink)
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I believe that we need an administration that doesn’t take the bullets out of their guns.

No Live Ammo for Marines
And we need ore prominent Muslims speaking out against how some/many of their people create terrible problems in the name of Allah. Sadly, many will not because they fear being killed.

We need to vote in a war time president. I do not think Obama is the man to run a country with troubles, surrounded by people that live to see us die off.

I am thinking a Regan-Patton-John Wayne-Bush hybrid who is not the least bit scared of bombing our enemies to hell and the stones to tell the liberal press to go pound sand.
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Old September 15th, 2012, 07:46 PM   #4 (permalink)
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I believe that we need an administration that doesn’t take the bullets out of their guns.

No Live Ammo for Marines
To be fair, shouldn't Obama order his secret service details to remove THEIR bullets, too?

OH MY GOD . . .

I just forgot, the NSA is building one huge and fast data center right here in Utah. They plan to monitor the web. I just used the words Obama, NSA, secret service, bullets and guns in one post.

Hold on, someone is breaking down the door, it might be important.
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Old September 15th, 2012, 10:13 PM   #5 (permalink)
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To be fair, shouldn't Obama order his secret service details to remove THEIR bullets, too?

OH MY GOD . . .

I just forgot, the NSA is building one huge and fast data center right here in Utah. They plan to monitor the web. I just used the words Obama, NSA, secret service, bullets and guns in one post.

Hold on, someone is breaking down the door, it might be important.
You're relying on an anonymous poster from this site: Domestic Propaganda

Well I guess it's better than a paid front group. Voting Fraud
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Old September 16th, 2012, 02:35 AM   #6 (permalink)
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And we need ore prominent Muslims speaking out against how some/many of their people create terrible problems in the name of Allah. Sadly, many will not because they fear being killed.

We need to vote in a war time president. I do not think Obama is the man to run a country with troubles, surrounded by people that live to see us die off.

I am thinking a Regan-Patton-John Wayne-Bush hybrid who is not the least bit scared of bombing our enemies to hell and the stones to tell the liberal press to go pound sand.
Suggest you don't rely on lobbyist front groups as a source.

Wingnuts Falsely Claim Obama Administration Forbade Marines From Carrying Live Ammo | Mother Jones

From: Cross, Alex Maj OLA, LA-41B
Sent: Thursday, September 13, 2012 4:55 PM
To: Cross, Alex Maj OLA, LA-41B
Subject: Marines in Libya and Egypt

Ladies and Gentlemen-
The following information is provided regarding Marine involvement in the recent actions in Egypt and Libya:

Egypt:
-The Ambassador did not impose restrictions on weapons or weapons status on the Marine Corps Embassy Security Group (MCESG) detachment. The MCESG Marines in Cairo were allowed to have live ammunition in their weapons. The Ambassador and Regional Security Officer have been completely and appropriately engaged with the security situation. Reports of Marines not being able to have their weapons loaded per direction from the Ambassador are not accurate.

- The Marine Corps does not establish Rules of Engagement (ROE). Nonetheless, ROE is classified and release of that information would jeopardize the Marines and U.S. interests. Any further inquiry should be directed to the State Department, since Marine security guards report to the ambassador not to a military commander.

-As reported in open sources, approximately 2000 personnel were protesting outside the U.S. Embassy and six individuals entered Embassy grounds. The Marines quickly took control of these six individuals and subsequently turned them over to local security officials.
-There were no Marines injured in this, or other actions in Cairo.
-There are no Marine dependents in Cairo.
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Old September 17th, 2012, 09:27 AM   #7 (permalink)
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Sorry but your assertion that Islam is being hijacked by fanatics for political purpose is niaveat best and shows an ignorance born of not being able to look past your own political views.

If you are muslim you can not cherry pick what parts of the Koran you want to follow. Its either the word of God or it is not. If you believe its not are you really a muslim? No! If it is the word of god given to guide you we are back to cherry picking. If you believe it is the word of god you must accept the entire work not just what you like.

What we keep hearing reffered to as a fringe minority are actually following the Koran not hijacking it. Their point about moderates being bad muslims is a true statement because if you don't take the Koran literally what are you left with? Your not really a muslim.

The same exact arguement can be made of the Bible. The fact Christians are not doing this kind of crap anymore has nothing to do with them evolving as a religion. Their was an enlightenment where many people turned against theocratic rule and founded secular democracies where people have freedom of religion but a seperation between religion and state to ensure the freedom of all beliefs and the rule by none
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Old September 17th, 2012, 01:44 PM   #8 (permalink)
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Their was an enlightenment where many people turned against theocratic rule and founded secular democracies where people have freedom of religion but a seperation between religion and state to ensure the freedom of all beliefs and the rule by none
Ah yes, so you see that Christianity and Islam, both having the same base, are both quite dangerous and it takes history to show believers this.
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Old September 17th, 2012, 01:56 PM   #9 (permalink)
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I work with several Muslims. Strangely enough, none of them are actively trying to kill me. Or, if they are, it's probably for work related reasons, not religion related ones.
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Old September 17th, 2012, 02:30 PM   #10 (permalink)
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I work with several Muslims. Strangely enough, none of them are actively trying to kill me. Or, if they are, it's probably for work related reasons, not religion related ones.
I dont know, I've sat next to Muslim acquaintances many times, had Muslim doctors and nurses examine me, and I had a guy who's name was Jihad give me general anesthetic.
I'm pretty sure they were all plotting to kill me, just blundered. I mean, I do believe in secular liberal democracy and think Islam is dumb and have crude drawings of Mohammad in copy books.
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Old September 17th, 2012, 02:48 PM   #11 (permalink)
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I've never understood the general hatred/dislike for all religion. I have ambivalent feelings toward Islam. While I may disagree with their worldview, my opinion is that as long as they leave me alone, I'll leave them alone and we can all get along. Plenty of room in the world for many different religions as long as they're not harming anyone.
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Old September 17th, 2012, 09:30 PM   #12 (permalink)
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Sorry but your assertion that Islam is being hijacked by fanatics for political purpose is niaveat best and shows an ignorance born of not being able to look past your own political views.
My naivety doesn't extend to the ignorance of the use of a spell checker. Ad hominem is a tactic of a religious fanatic.

Hamid Dabashi is Hagop Kevorkian Professor of Iranian Studies and Comparative Literature at Columbia University the author cited in Muslim world: Religion is again being used as a political tool. has a great deal more credibility than you.

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If you are muslim you can not cherry pick what parts of the Koran you want to follow. Its either the word of God or it is not. If you believe its not are you really a muslim? No! If it is the word of god given to guide you we are back to cherry picking. If you believe it is the word of god you must accept the entire work not just what you like.

What we keep hearing reffered to as a fringe minority are actually following the Koran not hijacking it. Their point about moderates being bad muslims is a true statement because if you don't take the Koran literally what are you left with? Your not really a muslim.

The same exact arguement can be made of the Bible. The fact Christians are not doing this kind of crap anymore has nothing to do with them evolving as a religion. Their was an enlightenment where many people turned against theocratic rule and founded secular democracies where people have freedom of religion but a seperation between religion and state to ensure the freedom of all beliefs and the rule by none
Ever hear of the Inquisition ? Inquisition - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Separation of Church & State is still controversial in the United States: Separation of church and state - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Theocracy has a long history: Theocracy - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The literal interpretation of the Bible (there several flavors) is associated with some Christian sects: Biblical literalism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Islam is a religion and has different sects. Islam has good and bad traits just like any other religion and being "hijacked" for political purposes is not uncommon for any religion.
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Old September 19th, 2012, 11:52 PM   #13 (permalink)
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I've never understood the general hatred/dislike for all religion. I have ambivalent feelings toward Islam. While I may disagree with their worldview, my opinion is that as long as they leave me alone, I'll leave them alone and we can all get along. Plenty of room in the world for many different religions as long as they're not harming anyone.
I don't dislike all religions just ones that profess a penalty for not believing in their dogma.
Jainism is a beautiful religion. Hinduism is kinda silly but a lot of fun to explore if you get my meaning.
Its these intolerant, bigoted religions that are forever proselytizing that I have an issue with. I could leave it alone if they kept it out of the public sphere and were not hell bent on forcing their views and values on to people who do not want it.
So yes I hate Christianity and Islam. I see them both as a threat to my secular way of life. I really don't care what flavor some one believes because it all boils down to the same thing.
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Old September 20th, 2012, 12:42 AM   #14 (permalink)
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My naivety doesn't extend to the ignorance of the use of a spell checker. Ad hominem is a tactic of a religious fanatic.

Hamid Dabashi is Hagop Kevorkian Professor of Iranian Studies and Comparative Literature at Columbia University the author cited in Muslim world: Religion is again being used as a political tool. has a great deal more credibility than you.



Ever hear of the Inquisition ? Inquisition - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Separation of Church & State is still controversial in the United States: Separation of church and state - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Theocracy has a long history: Theocracy - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The literal interpretation of the Bible (there several flavors) is associated with some Christian sects: Biblical literalism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Islam is a religion and has different sects. Islam has good and bad traits just like any other religion and being "hijacked" for political purposes is not uncommon for any religion.
Ok ad hominen. 1st I did not insult your character to score a debate point. You are often very partisan and while sometimes I agree with you deeply other times I wish you would step off your liberal high horse long enough to step back and look at a bigger picture. Ultra parasitism is a major pet peeve of mine.

My credibility vs the Doctors? There are many people with PHDs that make a lot of claims that when brought under the mildest of scrutiny fall flat.
I disagree on this point for 2 reasons that I think are plain common sense.
1 calling Islam a religion is an ignorant understatement. Islam is a Governmental System complete with laws, courts and punishments. It is political at its nature so cannot be hijacked for political reasons.
2 the terrorists who are being accused of hijacking it are indeed following a strict interpretation of the Koran. You can't hijack yourself. They are not outside the teachings of any sect and the spread of their power through their pseudo religion is the point of their politics.
That falls short of the definition of Hijacking.

Not sure about where you are going with the Inquisition thing. Yeah you lost me there. But to answer, yes I have and it ranks high on my list of why I said what I said about Christians not evolving to their more peaceful state today by choice but because the rest of the people dealing with them got tired of that.

Im trying real hard not to take this as you preaching or trying to school me here.

Separation of church and state is only being debated today because Christians in America can not be content with leaving their religion in their private lives. Which I am sure I can give you ample evidence for just by pointing you to the latest school lawsuits in Tennessee and Georgia were schools can now present Creationism as a valid counter view to Evolution in science classes Not social studies or literature where I personally don't have a problem with them being studied equally with other religions. Nope, science class where no religion can be tolerated.
Funny talking about this when I am on my way to my daughters school tomorrow to talk with the principal about her SCIENCE teacher dismissing evolution as silly and following that with here assertion that she is a Christian and believes the Bible but the state says they have to cover evolution so she had them read that 2 pages quietly and thats it. Also to be discussed in this meeting are people coming into the school at lunch time and setting up tables to pass out Christian propaganda to the students. During school hours mind you.

So yeah I have nothing to fear concerning my rights to a secular state.

Back to your Double dig with "ad Hominem"

Call my a Fanatic. I'll take it. Call me a Religious Fanatic. Proudly, Atheism is a religious belief in that is a belief concerning religion. Call me bigoted. I'll take that as well. I strait don't care what Muslims or Christians have to say about much because they proscribe to a religion that is ignorant and breeds ignorant so yes I tend to dismiss their views out of hand. I know what the Bible says because Ive read it, lost my stomach half way through the Koran so feel no need to hear a Christian view as it will just be reciting the Good Book and I'm sorry if you want to know about the ignorance of Islam turn on the news or surf the net for 10 minutes.
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Old September 20th, 2012, 12:44 AM   #15 (permalink)
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I don't dislike all religions just ones that profess a penalty for not believing in their dogma.
Jainism is a beautiful religion. Hinduism is kinda silly but a lot of fun to explore if you get my meaning.
Its these intolerant, bigoted religions that are forever proselytizing that I have an issue with. I could leave it alone if they kept it out of the public sphere and were not hell bent on forcing their views and values on to people who do not want it.
So yes I hate Christianity and Islam. I see them both as a threat to my secular way of life. I really don't care what flavor some one believes because it all boils down to the same thing.
Then come join the Church of the Rascally bob. (bob is in lower case because he is not a deity or god or even god like) We have a pot luck on Sunday (bring pie if possible . . . we always run out of pie for some reason) and every month, we have free beer Saturday.
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Old September 20th, 2012, 01:26 AM   #16 (permalink)
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Then come join the Church of the Rascally bob. (bob is in lower case because he is not a deity or god or even god like) We have a pot luck on Sunday (bring pie if possible . . . we always run out of pie for some reason) and every month, we have free beer Saturday.
Sorry currently busy studying Rastafarianism. Its taking forever because I can't remember what we studied last session.
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Old September 20th, 2012, 04:31 AM   #17 (permalink)
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Ok ad hominen. ... 1 calling Islam a religion is an ignorant understatement. ...
Well, by your definition I'm ignorant. Oh well, that's true, I'm ignorant on many subjects, including Islam, etc... and other folklore and myths.
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Old September 20th, 2012, 07:35 AM   #18 (permalink)
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I don't dislike all religions just ones that profess a penalty for not believing in their dogma.
Jainism is a beautiful religion. Hinduism is kinda silly but a lot of fun to explore if you get my meaning.
Its these intolerant, bigoted religions that are forever proselytizing that I have an issue with. I could leave it alone if they kept it out of the public sphere and were not hell bent on forcing their views and values on to people who do not want it.
So yes I hate Christianity and Islam. I see them both as a threat to my secular way of life. I really don't care what flavor some one believes because it all boils down to the same thing.
That's where I disagree with you. For the record, I'm Christian myself and have studied other religions like Islam and Hinduism. Not so familiar with Eastern religions TBH and definitely more familiar with the Western triad. I still think the world is a big enough place for Christians, Muslims, Jews, Buddhists, secularists, atheists, agnostics and anyone else to live in. I don't see why we can't just politely disagree and go our merry ways. Yes, you may think it's bad that a Christian tells you you're going to hell. So what. The Muslim will tell the Christian the same thing. Maybe the Muslim is right. Maybe the atheist is right. Maybe everyone is right. Maybe everyone is wrong. In any case, it's a big world, can't we just disagree civilly?
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Old September 20th, 2012, 08:57 AM   #19 (permalink)
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That's where I disagree with you. For the record, I'm Christian myself and have studied other religions like Islam and Hinduism. Not so familiar with Eastern religions TBH and definitely more familiar with the Western triad. I still think the world is a big enough place for Christians, Muslims, Jews, Buddhists, secularists, atheists, agnostics and anyone else to live in. I don't see why we can't just politely disagree and go our merry ways. Yes, you may think it's bad that a Christian tells you you're going to hell. So what. The Muslim will tell the Christian the same thing. Maybe the Muslim is right. Maybe the atheist is right. Maybe everyone is right. Maybe everyone is wrong. In any case, it's a big world, can't we just disagree civilly?
I would love for that to be the case. Eastern Religions are interesting to study but at the end you have to ask if it was worth the time. Hinduism is a bit more interesting because of its obsession with sexual acts as spiritual acts.

The problem is that the very nature of Christian and Islamic belief does not allow for other beliefs. If it was as simple as them telling me I was going to hell I could deal with that to, even though that gets annoying after a minute.

I will change the frame of my opinion here to a similar argument that removes religion but still illustrates the point by using a topic I do believe you and I are in agreement on.
Liberalism.
I equate it to the Liberal belief that we must be saved from ourselves. Which often comes across as an elitist mindset that we are to stupid to choose the right paths for ourselves and must have it dictated by the state. They are seeking to use the Government to control behavior that does not harm them but simply doesn't line up with their views.

Now substitute the word Liberal with Christian or Muslim and it fits perfectly.

Both groups are actively trying to assert control over the general public with a moral view they get from their religion. This by default can only mean that they believe an elitist view that no one can live a moral life with out their religion.

I am not speaking about individuals here as you do have a pretty moderate view even though you claim you are Christian and yes some Christians come down on my side of the fence. My own parents who are Fundamentalist Baptists have always supported separation of Church and State because there is so much diversity in Christianity that they worried that if religion was allowed to be preached in school it just might not be their version which to them was a bigger threat than science. That was before this magic word Christian evolved to a catch all big tent unifying people with far different views under the same banner for purely political reasons.

I did not wake up one day and say I hate religion. My activist even fanatical view point is in direct response to my secular beliefs being under constant threat from groups that want to control my private life when I am harming no one.
The real sad thing about it is if Christians would live and let live I actually agree with them on a few points that I would actively get out and support.

Not to side track the discussion with a hot button issue but the perfect example of this is abortion.
From an Atheists scientific view point I do believe it is murder. Science completely supports that life begins at the moment of conception. We live in an age where women do have a choice, its called being responsible and preventing pregnancy from happening in the 1st place. And while yes I know that birth control is not 100% effective individually you can supplement them with all kinds of spermicides and condoms and the like to get it to 99.999999999....%. Then that smallest chance can further be whittled away by understanding their own bodies cycles and not having sex right before or during ovulation.. It all hinges on personal responsibility.

Cases of rape or molestation are a lot stickier. The new life growing in the womb that is in fact a separate sentient being created at the moment sperm finds egg did not rape any one but will get the death penalty for the crime of living.
But here is the pivot point for compromise where neither side gets what they want which is the biggest indicator you have found fair middle ground.
Even though I have a strong feeling about it I could leave it as the best we could do. But Christian Extremist can't compromise because their god is right and you can't compromise with God so they have launched a campaign from a point of intolerance that has led to deaths and has crippled our government.

This is the issue that killed live and let live in this country. It truly is an issue being fought by the extremes that every one is forced to take a side in.
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Old September 20th, 2012, 09:25 AM   #20 (permalink)
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Ok ad hominen. ... 1 calling Islam a religion is an ignorant understatement. ...

Well, by your definition I'm ignorant. Oh well, that's true, I'm ignorant on many subjects, including Islam, etc... and other folklore and myths.
Again with Ad Hominem. Is this just a Liberal catch phrase you have adopted or have you looked up its definition.

Also its funny how you had to skip huge blocks of my post to get to Ad Hominem here.
Im not going to give you the definition because dictionary dot com is not hard to find.

I will take the challenge presented though. I gave my opinion on what I thought of a topic and that I do in fact believe that to be an ignorant view as it ignores basic evidence that is not even controversial.
I did not give this opinion to one up in an argument for the sake of argument where I could not support something with a fact.

If you study the origins of Islam which you your self just professed you haven't than you would understand that the religion was a sampling of several theologies that coalesced around a military campaign to gain dominance in a region. Which in fact is why you see this stubborn determination today that every one must be converted to Islam or suffer real world consequences followed be an eternity of punishment in an after life.
This is why you can also not separate Islam and Politics in the Middle East. It is a complete form of strict Government.
It claims a Law that has set punishments for crimes. In this it is no different than our own System. It also claims to be the highest authority in the land, comparable to our own Federal Government.

In every other slice of society when something is proven false we call it false and no longer permit it.

Example from current affairs debate. If it was proven tomorrow that vaccines in fact are the cause of autism we would immediately stop using them. Right?

Why is it that religion gets a free pass here?

So to sum up and come directly back to what my point is now. You are the original poster of this thread making a claim that I have completely debased with fact. You have went further to claim ignorance of the original topic that you posted on.

Simple solution: don't create threads about controversial topics you do not understand and then not expect to get your argument chewed to bits and spit back at you.
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Old September 20th, 2012, 11:02 PM   #21 (permalink)
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You stated "1 calling Islam a religion is an ignorant understatement." Islam is a religion in the U.S. and is a 501(c)(3) organization. I conjecture when any religion gets a chance it will dominate government and eliminate any competition.

Islam in the United States - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Thomas Jefferson defended religious freedom in America including those of Muslims. Jefferson explicitly mentioned Muslims when writing about the movement for religious freedom in Virginia. In his autobiography Jefferson wrote "[When] the [Virginia] bill for establishing religious freedom... was finally passed,... a singular proposition proved that its protection of opinion was meant to be universal. Where the preamble declares that coercion is a departure from the plan of the holy author of our religion, an amendment was proposed, by inserting the word 'Jesus Christ,' so that it should read 'a departure from the plan of Jesus Christ, the holy author of our religion.' The insertion was rejected by a great majority, in proof that they meant to comprehend within the mantle of its protection the Jew and the Gentile, the Christian and Mahometan, the Hindoo and infidel of every denomination."[29] While President, Jefferson also participated in an iftar with the Ambassador of Tunisia in 1809.[30]
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Old September 21st, 2012, 07:54 AM   #22 (permalink)
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Since when is Islam a 501c3? The entire religion is a non-profit?
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Old September 21st, 2012, 08:11 PM   #23 (permalink)
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Mosques, centers, etc. Don't *believe* there is a centralized hierarchy like the LDS, Catholics, etc.
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Old September 21st, 2012, 08:54 PM   #24 (permalink)
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Mosques, centers, etc. Don't *believe* there is a centralized hierarchy like the LDS, Catholics, etc.
Problem with that is?
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Old September 21st, 2012, 09:32 PM   #25 (permalink)
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Haven't a clue. Is there a problem ?
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Old September 22nd, 2012, 08:47 AM   #26 (permalink)
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Haven't a clue. Is there a problem ?
I'm confused as to why you tossed it out there.
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Old September 24th, 2012, 03:34 AM   #27 (permalink)
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Since when is Islam a 501c3? The entire religion is a non-profit?
Quote:
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Mosques, centers, etc. Don't *believe* there is a centralized hierarchy like the LDS, Catholics, etc.
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Originally Posted by A.Nonymous View Post
I'm confused as to why you tossed it out there.
Since 501(c)(3) tax-exempt was created, religions are automatically given this exemption. Are you claiming Islam should be denied this exemption ?
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Old September 24th, 2012, 07:40 AM   #28 (permalink)
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I don't think entire religions are 501c3s. Individual churches and organizations certainly are, but entire religions? I think not.
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Old September 24th, 2012, 11:13 PM   #29 (permalink)
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I don't think entire religions are 501c3s. Individual churches and organizations certainly are, but entire religions? I think not.
Why not, Westboro Baptist Church is an independent religion (501(c)(3) with its headquarters in Topeka, KS.
Religion and taxes: Could Westboro Baptist Church lose 501(c)(3) status? - Slate Magazine

Back to the subject, was this 14 minute video clip propaganda to ignite religious violence ?

It was uploaded to Youtube in July then dubbed into Arabic in September and excerpt broadcast on an Islamic Egyptian TV station.

The original clip had no religious content, but was overdubbed post production.
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Old September 25th, 2012, 09:24 AM   #30 (permalink)
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Why not, Westboro Baptist Church is an independent religion (501(c)(3) with its headquarters in Topeka, KS.
Religion and taxes: Could Westboro Baptist Church lose 501(c)(3) status? - Slate Magazine

Back to the subject, was this 14 minute video clip propaganda to ignite religious violence ?

It was uploaded to Youtube in July then dubbed into Arabic in September and excerpt broadcast on an Islamic Egyptian TV station.

The original clip had no religious content, but was overdubbed post production.
Right. Westboro is an individual church which may or may not be a 501 c 3.
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Old September 25th, 2012, 03:34 PM   #31 (permalink)
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Westboro IS a 501(c)(3) there's no "NOT". It is an individual church AND a religion. It can build more churches.

You appear to have difficulties staying focused. "Back to the subject, was this 14 minute video clip propaganda to ignite religious violence ?"
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Old September 25th, 2012, 05:57 PM   #32 (permalink)
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Westboro IS a 501(c)(3) there's no "NOT". It is an individual church AND a religion. It can build more churches.

You appear to have difficulties staying focused. "Back to the subject, was this 14 minute video clip propaganda to ignite religious violence ?"
No, there is a big difference between saying an entire religion is a 501(c)(3) and saying an individual church is a 501. Huge difference. You do know the difference between the general and the specific right? Can my business declare that it is a church and thus be a non-profit. No. There are rules defining what constitutes a 501. A religion is entirely broad and it, of itself, is not a 501. Individual churches may or may not be 501s. Some are. Some are not. Just being a church doesn't make an organization a 501 and churches have lost their 501 status in the past for participating in activities that were deemed to violate the rules of being a 501. They still held services every Sunday, but just holding religious services and belonging to a particular religion does not make something a 501.

And yes, the author of the vid likely made it to incite violence. Not sure what your point is beyond that.
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Old September 26th, 2012, 03:00 PM   #33 (permalink)
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No, there is a big difference between saying an entire religion is a 501(c)(3) and saying an individual church is a 501. ...
A religion and church can be one and the same. A religion can also have many churches centrally, independently, or via a subsidiary owned. Read the IRS code.

Electronic Code of Federal Regulations:
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Old September 26th, 2012, 03:18 PM   #34 (permalink)
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You stated that Islam is a 501. An entire religion is not a 501. A church or an organization can be a 501, but not an entire religion.
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Old September 26th, 2012, 04:23 PM   #35 (permalink)
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Is Christianity a religion ? At one time the Catholic church claimed to be the Christian religion. Now there are many Christian cults that claim to be the Christian religion. Each and every cult can obtain 501(c)(3) status. The Islam religion has the same rights and to my knowledge there are different cults.

Christianity, Islam, etc are user defined terms, if a 501(c)(3) organization claims its purpose is the furtherance of Christian, Islam, Satanism, Awondo, etc beliefs, the IRS neither approves or disapproves beliefs.

Exemptions are granted to the legal owner of what is being exempted. Westboro claims to be the Christian religion and has obtained 501(c)(3) status. The number, size, or value of assets a religion owns has no bearing on 501(c)(3) status.

Different cults have different corporate structures, some assets are centrally owned, others are congregationally owned within a religious association, still others are owned via a subsidiary, etc.
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Old September 26th, 2012, 08:11 PM   #36 (permalink)
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Prominent Muslims and the "Muslim on the street" will not speak out against those that want to use the religion as a tool to kill us. In those countries, speaking out is forbidden. they might kill you. And according to the rules, if you are not of that faith, you must be killed.

One major goal is to wipe a certain group off the face of the map and by any means they want to use.

Most every terrorist attacks in the last 20 or so years ago were perpetrated by members with twisted ideas. Christians do not seem to bomb us as frequently as others

Draw Mohamed and you can be killed.

Many Muslims want this country to adopt Sharia law.

I refuse to say the religion is evil, but they need some help with PR and they need more Muslims speaking out against those that want to pervert it for some un-Godly goals. the problem is, they are killed when they do.

Do NOT hate Muslims, that is not fair. There are millions of good ones out there that hate what their religion has become. But never forget, they do not like us and they want us to be them or die, period. I do think we have plenty to fear from a small segment of that population.
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Old September 26th, 2012, 10:54 PM   #37 (permalink)
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The perils of extremism

"The Saudi government campaign to combat terrorism and extremism needs to be further supported and encouraged by society and Muslim scholars. The extremists today are threatening Muslim societies and they have created a conflict between Muslim brothers. This dangerous phenomena needs to be checked before it causes more chaos and instability in our region and across the Muslim world. Moderate Muslims have an obligation to combat those extremists who continue to be in confrontation with societies and people that reject their extremist views and principles."
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Old September 26th, 2012, 10:59 PM   #38 (permalink)
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http://www.newsday.com/opinion/columnists/cathy-young/moderate-muslims-must-speak-out-against-the-fanaticism-1.4011412

"Isolated acts of intimidation against religiously offensive speech have also occurred in this country -- and religious groups have not always condemned them harshly enough. In 1998, a New York production of Terrence McNally's play "Corpus Christi," depicting a gay Jesus, was canceled over threats of bombing and murder; Catholic League for Religious and Civil Rights president William Donohue disavowed the threats but claimed to be "delighted" by the cancellation."
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Old September 26th, 2012, 10:59 PM   #39 (permalink)
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Old September 28th, 2012, 03:14 AM   #40 (permalink)
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You are leaving out another group, you forgot to mention that is the Palestinian Holocaust, committed almost daily by Israel. This is the basic cause towards the development of what you call Islamic Extremism. The Jewish Extremism.

Awhile ago Hilary Clinton said that the US had created Al-Qaeda to fight the Soviets in Afghanistan. Think again of Jewish Extremism. The Palestinian Issue (like it or not) is the basic cause of all these attacks. American policy makers always ask themselves "Why do they hate us?". It is very strange that they do not know the ANSWER.
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Old September 28th, 2012, 03:45 AM   #41 (permalink)
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Another man of faith being being prosecuted for his religious convictions. Why isn't the religious right storming some embassy's ?

Purported anti-Muslim film producer ordered jailed in probation case - U.S. News
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Old September 28th, 2012, 06:34 AM   #42 (permalink)
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The perils of extremism

"The Saudi government campaign to combat terrorism and extremism needs to be further supported and encouraged by society and Muslim scholars. The extremists today are threatening Muslim societies and they have created a conflict between Muslim brothers. This dangerous phenomena needs to be checked before it causes more chaos and instability in our region and across the Muslim world. Moderate Muslims have an obligation to combat those extremists who continue to be in confrontation with societies and people that reject their extremist views and principles."
The Saudi government is a joke. They are one of the most extreme, but we have to look the other way and play dumb because we have to have their oil. They won't even let their women drive ffs. Don't forget most of the 9/11 terrorists were from there. They hate us just as much if not more than most, but its not like they're going to stop taking our money and using it against us.
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Old September 28th, 2012, 08:08 AM   #43 (permalink)
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Another man of faith being being prosecuted for his religious convictions. Why isn't the religious right storming some embassy's ?

Purported anti-Muslim film producer ordered jailed in probation case - U.S. News
Because he's being prosecuted for violating his probation, not because of his religious views? That's my guess.
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Old September 28th, 2012, 10:52 AM   #44 (permalink)
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The Saudi government is a joke. They are one of the most extreme, but we have to look the other way and play dumb because we have to have their oil. They won't even let their women drive ffs. Don't forget most of the 9/11 terrorists were from there. They hate us just as much if not more than most, but its not like they're going to stop taking our money and using it against us.
Iran is multiples fairer and more democratic than Saudia Arabia. Iran, while poorer, is far more socially and economically developed. Obviously they are both shitty places but yeah.

Nigeria stops Hajj flights over deportations - Africa - Al Jazeera English
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Old September 28th, 2012, 03:34 PM   #45 (permalink)
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Because he's being prosecuted for violating his probation, not because of his religious views? That's my guess.
Those alleged probation restrictions hindered his furtherance/practice of his "faith", therefore should be null and void.
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Old September 28th, 2012, 03:42 PM   #46 (permalink)
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Those alleged probation restrictions hindered his furtherance/practice of his "faith", therefore should be null and void.
blah blah blah
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Old September 28th, 2012, 03:46 PM   #47 (permalink)
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... I refuse to say the religion is evil, but they need some help with PR and they need more Muslims speaking out against those that want to pervert it for some un-Godly goals. the problem is, they are killed when they do. ...
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The Saudi government is a joke. They are one of the most extreme, but we have to look the other way and play dumb because we have to have their oil. They won't even let their women drive ffs. Don't forget most of the 9/11 terrorists were from there. They hate us just as much if not more than most, but its not like they're going to stop taking our money and using it against us.
Not to disagree, as I would go further and claim any government that is autocratic and theocratic is a threat not only to us, but those living under this rule.

My response was in regards there are Muslims speaking out against extremist.
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Old September 28th, 2012, 04:05 PM   #48 (permalink)
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blah blah blah
My translator interpreted this to mean "The excrement is getting so deep, I have to put on my waders."
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Old September 28th, 2012, 06:07 PM   #49 (permalink)
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Those alleged probation restrictions hindered his furtherance/practice of his "faith", therefore should be null and void.
Good luck convincing a judge that your "faith" requires you to post defamatory Youtube vids.
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Old September 28th, 2012, 06:30 PM   #50 (permalink)
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Blasphemy is legal in the US.

All kidding aside, placing him in custody is more for his safety and the avoidance of killing some religious extremist.
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