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Old September 18th, 2012, 05:44 PM   #1 (permalink)
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Default The Innocence of Muslims video

Obviously this video was made to incite people. I've watched it and it was of horrible quality and the inflammatory statements about Islam and Mohammed were dubbed after.

I would like to talk about freedom of speech. Is there a limit? The obvious limits are yelling fire in a crowded theater, making false statements that could ruin someone's career or life, inciting a riot or encouraging illegal actions.
Did the film maker commit a crime?
I feel this goes both ways, and even with the Westboro Baptist Church, it's freedom of speech. As soon as we start arresting people for saying something we don't believe in, then they'll start arresting people for speaking bad about the government.

"I disagree with what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it"

What are your views on this?

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Old September 18th, 2012, 09:55 PM   #2 (permalink)
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Being incited to riot is no excuse for rioting.
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Old September 18th, 2012, 10:19 PM   #3 (permalink)
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After a game, if someone is standing on top a police car yelling "kill the police" that's inciting the riot. That is illegal, and isn't protected under freedom of speech
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Old September 18th, 2012, 10:28 PM   #4 (permalink)
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I suspect the police would take a dim view on that "someone"
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Old September 18th, 2012, 11:11 PM   #5 (permalink)
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Video sucks. People are stupid.

/thread
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Old September 19th, 2012, 02:51 AM   #6 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OstrichSaK View Post
Video sucks. People are stupid.

/thread
Are you not defined as a member of people ?
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Old September 19th, 2012, 10:27 AM   #7 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OutofDate1980 View Post
Are you not defined as a member of people ?
Nope, I'm a person.
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Old September 19th, 2012, 12:29 PM   #8 (permalink)
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Funny I thought that a person was a subset of people.
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Old September 19th, 2012, 12:38 PM   #9 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OutofDate1980 View Post
Funny I thought that a person was a subset of people.
Not sure where you learned your English Vocabulary but this is inaccurate. People is the pluralization of person. It is grammatically impossible for me to be people. A person can be smart. People are stupid.
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Old September 19th, 2012, 12:49 PM   #10 (permalink)
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Anyway, no one feels that their first amendment rights are threatened?
I mean, if the film producers are deemed guilty of a crime, then how far away will it be before it's a crime to speak up about the government? It's like the government hates the constitution.
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Old September 19th, 2012, 12:53 PM   #11 (permalink)
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Have the people involved with the movie been accused of a crime by a US legal authority for the making of the movie ?
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Old September 19th, 2012, 12:54 PM   #12 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jova33 View Post
It's like the government hates the constitution.
Like? Apparently you have been blind to the laws they've been passing for the past couple of decades. They're not even doing it behind closed doors anymore since most citizens pay no attention.

BTW, I think the fact that Judge Napolitano and other news analysts being investigated by the DoJ for Sedition is a bigger threat to our 1st Amendment right than this stupid video.
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Old September 19th, 2012, 01:09 PM   #13 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OstrichSaK View Post
Not sure where you learned your English Vocabulary but this is inaccurate. People is the pluralization of person. It is grammatically impossible for me to be people. A person can be smart. People are stupid.
People - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
A people is a plurality of persons considered as a whole, as in an ethnic group or nation. Collectively, for example, Jews are known as "the Jewish people", European Gypsies comprise the bulk of "the Romani people", and Palestinian Arabs have started to be called "the Palestinian people".

Subset - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
In mathematics, especially in set theory, a set A is a subset of a set B, or equivalently B is a superset of A, if A is "contained" inside B, that is, all elements of A are also elements of B. A and B may coincide. The relationship of one set being a subset of another is called inclusion or sometimes containment.

Stupid | Define Stupid at Dictionary.com
4. annoying or irritating; troublesome: Turn off that stupid radio
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Old September 19th, 2012, 01:12 PM   #14 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OutofDate1980 View Post
People - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
A people is a plurality of persons considered as a whole, as in an ethnic group or nation. Collectively, for example, Jews are known as "the Jewish people", European Gypsies comprise the bulk of "the Romani people", and Palestinian Arabs have started to be called "the Palestinian people".

Subset - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
In mathematics, especially in set theory, a set A is a subset of a set B, or equivalently B is a superset of A, if A is "contained" inside B, that is, all elements of A are also elements of B. A and B may coincide. The relationship of one set being a subset of another is called inclusion or sometimes containment.

Stupid | Define Stupid at Dictionary.com
4. annoying or irritating; troublesome: Turn off that stupid radio
Copy & pasting the definition doesn't prove your case. In fact, it proves mine.
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Old September 19th, 2012, 01:30 PM   #15 (permalink)
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It called supporting evidence. You did ask "learned your English Vocabulary".
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Old September 19th, 2012, 01:34 PM   #16 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OutofDate1980 View Post
It called supporting evidence. You did ask "learned your English Vocabulary".
Yes, it supports my side (that it's impossible for a single person to be people) so thanks for posting it. It's also ENTIRELY off topic as all of your posts end up being. If you want to discuss the topic the by all means, go for it. If you want to continue posting post after post proving how terrible your reading comprehension ("learned your English vocabulary" is not a question... it's a statement) is then just stop. All you're doing is digging the hole deeper and anyone who can read can see this.
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Old September 19th, 2012, 01:58 PM   #17 (permalink)
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You did make the statement "People are stupid", so defining people is relevant. Yes, when I quote, I copy the exact words. I didn't claim a person was a people, but claimed a person is a subset of people. Attacking someone is not addressing your claim that "People are stupid". Did you mean to claim that people you disagree with are stupid ?
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Old September 19th, 2012, 02:09 PM   #18 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jova33 View Post
It's like the government hates the constitution.
Well, I can understand why those who make decisions would easily get annoyed at any constitution, especially ones that are old and hard to change.
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Old September 19th, 2012, 02:10 PM   #19 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OutofDate1980 View Post
You did make the statement "People are stupid", so defining people is relevant. Yes, when I quote, I copy the exact words. I didn't claim a person was a people, but claimed a person is a subset of people. Attacking someone is not addressing your claim that "People are stupid". Did you mean to claim that people you disagree with are stupid ?
To anyone else here with a sliver of reading comprehension the expression 'People are stupid' is pretty self explanatory. I'm not going to spend all day explaining simple expressions you don't understand because that's not the topic of this thread.
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Old September 19th, 2012, 02:11 PM   #20 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OutofDate1980 View Post
You did make the statement "People are stupid", so defining people is relevant. Yes, when I quote, I copy the exact words. I didn't claim a person was a people, but claimed a person is a subset of people. Attacking someone is not addressing your claim that "People are stupid". Did you mean to claim that people you disagree with are stupid ?
Oh just drop it, its pure semantics and is just taking up posts.
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Old September 19th, 2012, 02:40 PM   #21 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ElasticNinja View Post
Oh just drop it, its pure semantics and is just taking up posts.
The title of this thread is "The Innocence of Muslims video". Muslims can be defined as people.

A poster has claimed People are stupid, a derogatory term. History has shown that once a group can be defined in derogatory terms, then extreme harm to said group can be rationalized.

Semantics is important.
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Old September 19th, 2012, 02:42 PM   #22 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OutofDate1980 View Post
The title of this thread is "The Innocence of Muslims video". Muslims can be defined as people.

A poster has claimed People are stupid, a derogatory term. History has shown that once a group can be defined in derogatory terms, then extreme harm to said group can be rationalized.

Semantics is important.
Now you're stretching and clearly are the epitome of one who overreacts for dramatic affect and attention. Welcome to my ignore list.
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Old September 19th, 2012, 02:46 PM   #23 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OutofDate1980 View Post
Have the people involved with the movie been accused of a crime by a US legal authority for the making of the movie ?
No, but I've read up on people wanting the producer charged.
http://www.latimes.com/news/opinion/commentary/la-oe-chayes-innocence-of-muslims-first-amendment-20120918,0,3112718.story
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Old September 19th, 2012, 02:48 PM   #24 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jova33 View Post
No, but I've read up on people wanting the producer charged.
'Innocence of Muslims' doesn't meet free-speech test - latimes.com
Of course Kalifornians would want some sort of 'justice' brought about.
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Old September 19th, 2012, 02:49 PM   #25 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ElasticNinja View Post
Well, I can understand why those who make decisions would easily get annoyed at any constitution, especially ones that are old and hard to change.
Like the US's 2nd amendment? The reason our founding fathers left that in there is in case the government got too out of hand. They definitely want that one removed.
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Old September 19th, 2012, 03:02 PM   #26 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jova33 View Post
Like the US's 2nd amendment? The reason our founding fathers left that in there is in case the government got too out of hand. They definitely want that one removed.
Exactly why there are so many restrictions and laws governing that right. Just keep tightening those and eventually you successfully eradicate the 2nd amendment. Then who cares about the 1st amendment or any of the rest for that matter because the government no longer fears the people.
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Old September 19th, 2012, 03:09 PM   #27 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jova33 View Post
No, but I've read up on people wanting the producer charged.
'Innocence of Muslims' doesn't meet free-speech test - latimes.com
Yes, there are those that are exercising their Freedom of Speech, but offensive even deceptive speech is protected. Doesn't mean offensive or deceptive speech can't be criticized.

The premise of Freedom of Speech is based on the means has not been concentrated into the hands of a few. With Google and the internet, this concentration is less than in the past.
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Old September 19th, 2012, 03:14 PM   #28 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OutofDate1980 View Post
The title of this thread is "The Innocence of Muslims video". Muslims can be defined as people.

A poster has claimed People are stupid, a derogatory term. History has shown that once a group can be defined in derogatory terms, then extreme harm to said group can be rationalized.

Semantics is important.
I don't think OstrichSak or anyone else is advocating the genocide of the entire human race or anything close to it. For the record, people are stupid.
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Old September 19th, 2012, 03:19 PM   #29 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OstrichSaK View Post
Like? Apparently you have been blind to the laws they've been passing for the past couple of decades. They're not even doing it behind closed doors anymore since most citizens pay no attention.

BTW, I think the fact that Judge Napolitano and other news analysts being investigated by the DoJ for Sedition is a bigger threat to our 1st Amendment right than this stupid video.
Well, yeah, I've only noticed it the past 10 years.

And I can't find much about the judge
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Old September 19th, 2012, 03:26 PM   #30 (permalink)
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Like the US's 2nd amendment? The reason our founding fathers left that in there is in case the government got too out of hand. They definitely want that one removed.
Here are three threads this year related to 2nd Amendment. Feel free to comment.

Right to bear arms vs. right to fire

Enemies of the 2nd amendment, enemies to freedom.

2nd Amendment
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Old September 19th, 2012, 03:36 PM   #31 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by A.Nonymous View Post
... For the record, people are stupid.
I wouldn't claim that all people of Colorado, Kansas, Texas or Utah are stupid, just because there are individual persons who are.
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Old September 19th, 2012, 03:42 PM   #32 (permalink)
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This has gotten personal and entirely out of hand.

Let's have a little cooling off period.

edit - thread re-opened, best luck to all here.
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Old September 21st, 2012, 04:27 AM   #33 (permalink)
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It appears no movie was made, just a clip. Perhaps an attempt at propaganda ?

California judge rules anti-Islam film can stay on YouTube | Reuters

U.S. officials have said authorities are not investigating the film project itself and that even if it was inflammatory or led to violence, simply producing it cannot be considered a crime in the United States due to the nation's strong free speech laws.

But Nakoula, a Coptic Christian California man who pleaded guilty to bank fraud in 2010, was interviewed by federal probation officers on Saturday probing whether he violated the terms of his release while making the film.

Nakoula, who was released from prison in 2011, is prohibited from accessing the Web or assuming aliases without the approval of his probation officer, court records show. Violations could result in him being sent back to prison.

Nakoula, 55, did not return to his house in the Los Angeles suburb of Cerritos following his interview, and his whereabouts are unknown. Last week, he denied involvement in the film in a phone call to his Coptic bishop in Los Angeles.

Garcia, asked if a longer version of the film exists, told reporters outside court before the hearing that she did not believe the movie was ever finished.

"There is no entire movie, there's only that clip," she said.
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Old September 21st, 2012, 06:23 AM   #34 (permalink)
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Well all the trash talking about Muslims and Mohammed was dubbed after filming.
The actors all thought they were making a film about ancient Egypt.
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Old September 21st, 2012, 03:22 PM   #35 (permalink)
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is anything in the film/trailer (because thats all it really is) inaccurate or unfactual?

my understanding is they are just mad because they dont want everyone to know the truth about what kind of person their 'messiah' really was
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Old September 21st, 2012, 03:43 PM   #36 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by copestag View Post
is anything in the film/trailer (because thats all it really is) inaccurate or unfactual?

my understanding is they are just mad because they dont want everyone to know the truth about what kind of person their 'messiah' really was
That he was a smart albeit delusional guy who was used to further the goals of an elite? Sounds like Jesus.
And at least Muslims don't have the audacity to claim Muhammad or Jesus are the sons of god.
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Old September 21st, 2012, 06:58 PM   #37 (permalink)
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I dunno.... they did have the audacity to dance and parade in the streets on September 11, 2001. I know not every Muslim was happy or cheering about 2,000+ innocent civilians dying that day, but I didn't see any other ethnic group happy about it.

Edit: I'm not some super (fake) patriotic American. I mean, there was cause and effect that led up to America getting attacked.
It's just you don't see that kind of response from any other group of people. Burn a bible - 0 deaths. Burn a quran - jihad against the western world.
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Old September 21st, 2012, 11:08 PM   #38 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ElasticNinja View Post
That he was a smart albeit delusional guy who was used to further the goals of an elite? Sounds like Jesus.
And at least Muslims don't have the audacity to claim Muhammad or Jesus are the sons of god.
admittedly I dont know a whole lot about the religion... and I certainly havent seen the 'trailer'

but again my understanding is that it highlights some of the facts as taken directly from the koran as well as history..... as I recall wasnt there something said about him beating his 6 YEAR OLD wife for something

perhaps thats what they are embarrassed about?

I have to believe its that they dont want to be reminded of the truth about their 'messiah' or want anyone else to learn of it for that matter
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Old September 22nd, 2012, 01:57 PM   #39 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OstrichSaK View Post
Not sure where you learned your English Vocabulary but this is inaccurate. People is the pluralization of person. It is grammatically impossible for me to be people. A person can be smart. People are stupid.
Perhaps "some people are stupid" is a tad more accurate?

I agree . . . some people are stupid. I have done certain things often characterized as "stupid." I am a person and part of the people. But I not be stoopid.

stu·pid

1. lacking ordinary quickness and keenness of mind; dull.
2. characterized by or proceeding from mental dullness; foolish; senseless: a stupid question.
3. tediously dull, especially due to lack of meaning or sense; inane; pointless: a stupid party.
4. annoying or irritating; troublesome: Turn off that stupid radio.
5. in a state of stupor; stupefied: stupid from fatigue.
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