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Old November 6th, 2012, 10:29 PM   #1 (permalink)
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Default Love it or hate it......Obama is in

Another 4 years. Hopefully he does better his second term.

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Old November 6th, 2012, 10:34 PM   #2 (permalink)
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Moved to politics and current affairs. If you believe this to be in error shoot me a pm
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Old November 6th, 2012, 10:38 PM   #3 (permalink)
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He is doing great for us. People needs to know its take a little while to fix the economy and other issues. It's a slow progress and not easy. Go Obama!
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Old November 6th, 2012, 10:38 PM   #4 (permalink)
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Better than having 4 years with a president that are for the rich people and believe in raising taxes for the less fortunate.

Obama over Romney any day.
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Old November 6th, 2012, 10:46 PM   #5 (permalink)
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Well see... I sure fall under middle-class and I didn't wanna get taxed any higher.
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Old November 6th, 2012, 10:53 PM   #6 (permalink)
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Romney's definition of middle-class was $200,000 or more per year.

Now let's hope they don't try to kill the President...
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Old November 6th, 2012, 10:57 PM   #7 (permalink)
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His reelection is an indication that America has changed. He could be the perfect leader to take the country down a new path. A path I certainly had no intenion of going down, but I’m only one vote. Voting – exactly what makes this a free country – has just chosen to become less free.
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Old November 7th, 2012, 06:24 AM   #8 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by saptech View Post
Romney's definition of middle-class was $200,000 or more per year.

Now let's hope they don't try to kill the President...
Obama agreed with that assessment. Just saying.

I wasn't surprised that Obama won. I was surprised that he took every single swing state in the process. Romney just ran a horrible campaign. The economy sucks and Obama successfully blamed Bush for it even though he's been in office for 4 years, none of it is his fault. Obama was completely beatable. He ran on Hope and Change in 2008 and delivered none of that. His biggest achievement amounts to a tax hike on the middle class. The Republicans respond by running a completely spineless candidate who ran a horrible campaign. I think Obama was helped by Sandy as well. Romney got shoved to the back burner and really couldn't say anything at all without making himself look bad. Obama got all the air time and looked presidential in the process.
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Old November 7th, 2012, 07:49 AM   #9 (permalink)
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Obama agreed with that assessment. Just saying.
Obama said up to $200,000 not 200,000 or more.

Romney really didn't know what to say to ordinary people, those who make a lot less than $200,000 per year.

Ohio and the auto bailout, Romney said he wasn't for bailouts.
Hurricane Sandy, this put a damper on Romney's roll he was building for awhile.
Defining Romney, was heard dismissing "47%" of Americans who either don't pay taxes or live off government assistance.
Former presidents, Bush & Clinton. Both helped Obama more than Romney.
Osama bin Laden, we know how this helped Obama.

Romney couldn't communicate with the ordinary people as a whole!
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Old November 7th, 2012, 08:07 AM   #10 (permalink)
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Both of them said middle class was $200,000. Both of them are out of touch with the middle class. The median household income in the US is ~$45k. The fact that both candidates even tossed around the $200,000 number just shows how out of touch both candidates really are.

The auto bailout was a bad idea. If companies are too big to fail they need to either fail or be broken up. It was a bad idea because it didn't fix the long term problem. There will be a need to bail out the auto industry again in a decade or so and all because they weren't allowed to fail.

Sandy definitely helped Obama. Romney had been building momentum and Sandy just killed it.

Romney failed to get his message across and he let Obama paint him as a horrible rich guy who was horrible just because he was rich. That was his fatal mistake IMO.
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Old November 7th, 2012, 08:48 AM   #11 (permalink)
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Without the auto bailout, there would probably only be one American car maker right now, (Ford) and how many more jobs lost that of course you guys would have loved to have pinned on Obama. Plus most of the money has already been paid back. Priceless investment in our country.

The 47% comments came out of The Horrible Rich Guy's mouth, not Obama's (rich also, by the way). He only has himself to blame for being a terrible candidate.
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Old November 7th, 2012, 10:26 AM   #12 (permalink)
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No. They wouldn't have gone completely out of business. They would've gone bankrupt and been forced to re-organize. It's not a priceless investment when we'll end up bailing them all out again in 10-15 years because the way they do business doesn't work.
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Old November 7th, 2012, 11:13 AM   #13 (permalink)
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Not lovin' it but will deal with it.

Looks to me like status quo. Nothing got done the past 3+ years. Same will hold true if one or both sides don't learn how to compromise. The best thing Republicans can do is reach across the isle and get some important work done with Obama and the Democrats. A divided country is not a healthy country.
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Old November 7th, 2012, 05:03 PM   #14 (permalink)
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Markets reaction to the Obama re-election was to post it's biggest loss of the year. Good times.
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Old November 7th, 2012, 06:07 PM   #15 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by A.Nonymous View Post
Markets reaction to the Obama re-election was to post it's biggest loss of the year. Good times.
The stock market more than doubled since he took office, so I wouldn't read too much into one day. I think the recovery will speed up now that the election is over, and would have if Romney had won as well. I think a lot of things were in a holding pattern just waiting for the election to be over.
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Old November 7th, 2012, 08:56 PM   #16 (permalink)
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Alexander Fraser Tytler:

A democracy will continue to exist up until the time that voters discover that they can vote themselves generous gifts from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates who promise the most benefits from the public treasury, with the result that every democracy will finally collapse due to loose fiscal policy, which is always followed by a dictatorship.
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Old November 7th, 2012, 09:27 PM   #17 (permalink)
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Beyond race millions across lines of color believe their future is bleak and the America Dream and hope for ever-increasing prosperity is slipping from their grasps. The power of the One Percent Super Rich versus the suffering of the masses of the 99 Percent remains on a collision course. Depressed wages, high unemployment, evaporating investments, assaults on the rights of workers and no such thing as job security are driving more and more Americans to the edge—not to mention growing poverty, homelessness and a general sense that the country has a hard road ahead. There is a legitimate notion that everyone is one their own.
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Old November 7th, 2012, 10:42 PM   #18 (permalink)
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I hereby hope that the modern-day interpretation of the Mayan calendar is actually correct.
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Old November 8th, 2012, 06:39 AM   #19 (permalink)
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Quote:
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Beyond race millions across lines of color believe their future is bleak and the America Dream and hope for ever-increasing prosperity is slipping from their grasps. The power of the One Percent Super Rich versus the suffering of the masses of the 99 Percent remains on a collision course. Depressed wages, high unemployment, evaporating investments, assaults on the rights of workers and no such thing as job security are driving more and more Americans to the edge—not to mention growing poverty, homelessness and a general sense that the country has a hard road ahead. There is a legitimate notion that everyone is one their own.
If people believe their future is bleak it's because they've spent too much time staring at a TV set and not looking at reality. You are on your own. It's always been that way. You make your own success.
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Old November 8th, 2012, 07:32 AM   #20 (permalink)
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If people believe their future is bleak it's because they've spent too much time staring at a TV set and not looking at reality. You are on your own. It's always been that way. You make your own success.
It's very easy to say when the bleak future doesn't effect you. It has nothing to do with watching tv. Of course we all are on our own. It depends on how you measure success. Having lots of money may be success for you, while having a wife and kids could mean success for me.
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Old November 8th, 2012, 07:39 AM   #21 (permalink)
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I have just accepted the situation. Unsure if its what I would have chosen (I didn't have much faith in either candidate) but I was decently sure Romney could not have reversed Obamas changes and still fixed the pre-existing problems. So Romney IMO would not have achieved much either. In another 4yrs if Obama has helped to make a bigger mess then maybe a Romney is just what we need. Till then I just hope the current president helps to make a better America for the majority of Americans.

Also on the jobs that Romney was talking about... I don't feel it's the governments job to make these available in America. I chose a profession that I felt could not be outsourced easily to protect my future. I believe it's everyone's responsibility to pick professions that have long term potential. Where I live there are not shortage of jobs... There is a shortage of good jobs. So when I was in college I worked on a brick laying crew shoveling dirt beside mostly Hispanics (not even English speaking). Most Americans were told the pay and then quit midday because of how hard they had to work for the pay. I just viewed it as a way to pay for my schooling and pushed on. Since then have finished school and moved onto a better job (no issues finding one either).

For those that didn't want to read the above paragraph.. It all comes down to preparing yourself and taking care of your future. The government is a bonus if they are helping in this goal but primarily its about you and your ability to adapt.
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Old November 8th, 2012, 07:49 AM   #22 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by saptech View Post
It's very easy to say when the bleak future doesn't effect you. It has nothing to do with watching tv. Of course we all are on our own. It depends on how you measure success. Having lots of money may be success for you, while having a wife and kids could mean success for me.
If you sit around and watch tv all day, all it is is doom and gloom. It's constant messages about how bad everything is and how we're all gonna die and how there's no hope at all. You can't convince me that a constant diet of that crap isn't going to affect your outlook in some way.

Of course we all have different ideas of success and that's fine. The attitude that you can't achieve your dreams (whatever they may be) because everything is so horrible and therefore why bother even trying is a problem. You may even try, but subconsciously sabotage your efforts because your attitude is that you're just going to fail.
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Old November 8th, 2012, 11:29 AM   #23 (permalink)
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The best thing Republicans can do is reach across the isle and get some important work done with Obama and the Democrats. A divided country is not a healthy country.
Agree. Both parties need to get work together and stop acting like gang members towards each other.
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Old November 8th, 2012, 02:35 PM   #24 (permalink)
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Agree. Both parties need to get work together and stop acting like gang members towards each other.
Now where's the fun in that?
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Old November 8th, 2012, 03:28 PM   #25 (permalink)
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Markets reaction to the Obama re-election was to post it's biggest loss of the year. Good times.
I thought markets gained on the news? Perhaps its a case of world markets vs US markets. Obama might be better for the world economy, but worse for large listed companies.
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Old November 8th, 2012, 03:32 PM   #26 (permalink)
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Agree. Both parties need to get work together and stop acting like gang members towards each other.
Has this ever happened though for a long period of time? Mere cooperation rarely works in politics. Its either coalition (working together with a set of written agreements), or one party rule, with the other being the opposition. Don't really see this happening what with the way Congress is, all a bit antiquated.
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Old November 8th, 2012, 03:51 PM   #27 (permalink)
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I thought markets gained on the news? Perhaps its a case of world markets vs US markets. Obama might be better for the world economy, but worse for large listed companies.
The stock market here fell 2.6% which is the biggest loss all year.
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Old November 8th, 2012, 10:49 PM   #28 (permalink)
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The Market dropped his first term, so nothing new...the same folks (tea party types) who dislike the president continue to dislike him going into the second term.

Yes, both parties need to get their heads out of their butts and start compromising on getting the country on the right track!
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Old November 8th, 2012, 11:42 PM   #29 (permalink)
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*pokes head in thread, leaves before he gets banned.*
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Old November 9th, 2012, 01:44 AM   #30 (permalink)
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The stock market here fell 2.6% which is the biggest loss all year.
Markets rise on Obama's election victory - ABC News (Australian Broadcasting Corporation)

Asian stock markets rise after President Obama wins another term - The Washington Post

World markets rise after Barack Obama gets re-elected - Economic Times
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Old November 9th, 2012, 06:28 AM   #31 (permalink)
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Those are world markets, not US markets. Caterpillar and Exide announced big layoffs. I think the economy is just going to get worse here. Best case it'll stay as bad as it is and it will still be an issue in the 2014 and 2016 elections.
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Old November 9th, 2012, 08:00 AM   #32 (permalink)
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Those are world markets, not US markets. Caterpillar and Exide announced big layoffs. I think the economy is just going to get worse here. Best case it'll stay as bad as it is and it will still be an issue in the 2014 and 2016 elections.
Been watching the Doom & Gloom tv again huh...big layoffs started around 2007 and haven't really stopped since!
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Old November 9th, 2012, 09:24 AM   #33 (permalink)
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Got this from a friend of mine in Florida. Interesting read. Not a fan of Rush mind you.

Quote:
What Would Happen if We Split the Country?

BEGIN TRANSCRIPT

RUSH: A note that I got from a good friend of mine -- this is a fascinating little think piece. He lives in Kansas City. He's fed up with all the ads on TV. He's just fed up with it. His Romney sign was defaced. Cow manure was thrown all over it and underneath it on his yard. He says, "You know, I'm getting real tired of all the ads. I can't wait 'til tomorrow, and I hope your prediction is right. But here's my idea: Let's just flip a coin.

"If the Republicans win, they get to select the half of the country they want and the Democrats get the other half. You split this country right down the middle. Republicans pick the side they want; the Democrats get the other side. We have Mitt; they have Obama. You can live wherever you want to live. You choose which side you want to live in." He said, "The question is: How long would it be before Democrats are building tunnels to get underneath the wall keeping them out of the Republican side?"

Stop and think. This is a great illustration. You split the country right in half, right down the Mississippi River, and let's just say the Republicans get the left half the country and they build a wall. The Mississippi River is not a moat. You build a wall there. The Democrats get everything on the East and we get everything on the West. Or flip it. It doesn't matter. We get our ways of life on our side; they get their ways of life on theirs.

How long will it be before all those Democrats are trying to get over to our side?

How long? We'd have to have checkpoints! We'd have to shoot 'em on sight if they're trying to get into our side of the country, just like in the old East and West Germany days. Stop and think of that. It would make a great book: Talking about one side and comparing the two. It would be a great movie showing where certain companies chose to live, where certain people chose to live. It'd show how they chose to run their businesses, how they chose to manage their affairs.

One half of the country you'd have a welfare state, and in the other half you'd have prosperity and good times and all that, and where would people want to end up? Now, do we already have that? (interruption) Who would pay for their welfare? The Democrat half of the country would cease to exist in two weeks. There'd be nobody to pay for their way of life. The Democrat half of the country would become barren and desert and there would be no life. There would be nothing there. And they'd all be scrambling to get to our side of the country.

It's a great way, I think, to illustrate what the election's about.

END TRANSCRIPT
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Old November 9th, 2012, 10:09 AM   #34 (permalink)
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Rush = moron
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Old November 9th, 2012, 10:29 AM   #35 (permalink)
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Got this from a friend of mine in Florida. Interesting read. Not a fan of Rush mind you.
Regardless of the impact of the lower spending of the Republican half on services and welfare, the Democratic base is in the wealthy and industrialised parts of the country. Anyway, I remember West Germany being the state with the extensive welfare system inherited from Otto Von Bismarck. In East Germany everyone had a job where they werent particularly productive, not exactly welfare.

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Those are world markets, not US markets. Caterpillar and Exide announced big layoffs. I think the economy is just going to get worse here. Best case it'll stay as bad as it is and it will still be an issue in the 2014 and 2016 elections.
Ah yeah sure I said as much.
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Old November 9th, 2012, 04:51 PM   #36 (permalink)
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Hopefully he and Congress can work out something before January. If the first thing that happens during the new Obama term is my taxes going up $1500 I'm going to be ticked.
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Old November 9th, 2012, 05:30 PM   #37 (permalink)
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Hopefully he and Congress can work out something before January. If the first thing that happens during the new Obama term is my taxes going up $1500 I'm going to be ticked.
Also you would be talking about 4% of GDP being taken out of the economy. Part of me wants to see it happen but the European economy is going back downhill as it is, we don't need another shock.
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Old November 9th, 2012, 06:20 PM   #38 (permalink)
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You have to believe they are not crazy enough to let the sequester happen, but if it does, blame the republicans for holding the economy hostage in the name of not asking the wealthy to pay slightly more in taxes. Hopefully Obama will have some balls and not get bullied into a bad deal.
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Old November 9th, 2012, 06:39 PM   #39 (permalink)
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You have to believe they are not crazy enough to let the sequester happen, but if it does, blame the republicans for holding the economy hostage in the name of not asking the wealthy to pay slightly more in taxes. Hopefully Obama will have some balls and not get bullied into a bad deal.
Yeah, that's the thing that bothers me. On the one hand, both sides would have to be completely nuts to let it happen. But then both sides are completely nuts. If it does happen, then it's a matter of playing the blame game and whoever plays the blame game the best will have a very good chance of ending up with power in two years.
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Old November 10th, 2012, 08:15 AM   #40 (permalink)
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You have to believe they are not crazy enough to let the sequester happen, but if it does, blame the republicans for holding the economy hostage in the name of not asking the wealthy to pay slightly more in taxes. Hopefully Obama will have some balls and not get bullied into a bad deal.
I think Obama and the Democrats have been trying to hard to compromise. 90% of the give has been from them. Also, I have said this before, but more than just the wealthy need a tax increase.
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Old November 10th, 2012, 08:49 AM   #41 (permalink)
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I think Obama and the Democrats have been trying to hard to compromise. 90% of the give has been from them. Also, I have said this before, but more than just the wealthy need a tax increase.
That is where the Democrats won't bend. The Republicans don't want to raise taxes at all. If they do, their entire base will blast them for it and the Democrats will blame them for the tax increases. The Democrats can get away with raising taxes on the wealthy as that is what their base wants, right or wrong. The Democrats can't get away with raising taxes on everyone else. So they are going to try to stick it to the wealthy big time even if this just means that the wealthy will hide more and more of their assets overseas in order to avoid taxation. Those horrible rich people.
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Old November 10th, 2012, 11:11 AM   #42 (permalink)
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That is where the Democrats won't bend. The Republicans don't want to raise taxes at all. If they do, their entire base will blast them for it and the Democrats will blame them for the tax increases. The Democrats can get away with raising taxes on the wealthy as that is what their base wants, right or wrong. The Democrats can't get away with raising taxes on everyone else. So they are going to try to stick it to the wealthy big time even if this just means that the wealthy will hide more and more of their assets overseas in order to avoid taxation. Those horrible rich people.
Well taxes have to be raised on the wealthy. The IMF will tell you that. And because the Democrats have not developed an illogical idealogical opposition to tax hikes, they would be more willing to increase the tax burden on the upper middle classes too.
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Old November 10th, 2012, 11:33 AM   #43 (permalink)
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The fact of the matter is this.

America is no longer going to be run by rich old men. The politics of long ago are gone. Republicans need to come better, young minority, middle class men (and yes women) are the new majority. Like it or love it. Stop coming to me with old men who sing the 1929 song. How about a gay woman, a Latino man, a 48 year old Indian? I am tired of our presidents being rich old men who haven't paid a insurance premium, had to put a child through college cash or has never had to eat top ramen. This is a democracy here. 52% of Americans are tired of the same ole same ole period.

Get it together republicans!
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Old November 10th, 2012, 11:47 AM   #44 (permalink)
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Well taxes have to be raised on the wealthy. The IMF will tell you that. And because the Democrats have not developed an illogical idealogical opposition to tax hikes, they would be more willing to increase the tax burden on the upper middle classes too.
The Democrats have developed an illogical ideological opposition to tax hikes when it comes to the middle class. Raising taxes on the wealthy alone, even with assuming a static tax base model that does not shrink in reaction to higher taxes, is not nearly enough to address the deficit from a revenue standpoint. It makes for great campaign rhetoric but the math just isn't there.
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Old November 10th, 2012, 11:48 AM   #45 (permalink)
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Well taxes have to be raised on the wealthy. The IMF will tell you that. And because the Democrats have not developed an illogical idealogical opposition to tax hikes, they would be more willing to increase the tax burden on the upper middle classes too.

But the Democrats can't get away with raising taxes on anyone except the wealthy. They also can't get away with cutting any programs (which the Republicans can btw) so this forces them to basically propose soaking the rich. This juts less to the rich hiding more and more assets elsewhere. Then the Democrats through a fit when the wealthiest campaign against them. What do they expect?

What is needed is more than anything is spending cuts and reining in the score of government. Do that and tax hikes may not even be necessary. Neither party its really interested in that at all.
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Old November 10th, 2012, 12:22 PM   #46 (permalink)
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But the Democrats can't get away with raising taxes on anyone except the wealthy. They also can't get away with cutting any programs (which the Republicans can btw) so this forces them to basically propose soaking the rich. This juts less to the rich hiding more and more assets elsewhere. Then the Democrats through a fit when the wealthiest campaign against them. What do they expect?

What is needed is more than anything is spending cuts and reining in the score of government. Do that and tax hikes may not even be necessary. Neither party its really interested in that at all.
The Democrats have committed themselves to spending cuts already, and more spending cuts than tax rises in fact. The Republicans want a 99% cuts, 1% revenue rise plan to get the federal structural deficit down. The Democrats are saying 60-80% cuts, 20-40% revenue increases.

Perhaps the two parties should simply agree to invite in the IMF and let them tell them what to do.
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Old November 10th, 2012, 12:29 PM   #47 (permalink)
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The Democrats have committed themselves to spending cuts already, and more spending cuts than tax rises in fact. The Republicans want a 99% cuts, 1% revenue rise plan to get the federal structural deficit down. The Democrats are saying 60-80% cuts, 20-40% revenue increases.

Perhaps the two parties should simply agree to invite in the IMF and let them tell them what to do.
this is the fantasy they have the weak minded democrats believing

that democrats want to 'fairly raise taxes' and want to 'cut spending responsibly'

complete idiocy

democrats want to raise taxes on the only portions of america paying anything at all.... they enjoy the fact that half of america 'fairly' pays ABSOLUTELY NOTHING in income taxes

and they only want to cut spending on defense they arent interested in even looking at entitlement spending or social programs

I for one hope the tax cuts expire..... most of us will be just fine

the question for the democrats is......when will you pay your fair share??
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Old November 10th, 2012, 12:48 PM   #48 (permalink)
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this is the fantasy they have the weak minded democrats believing

that democrats want to 'fairly raise taxes' and want to 'cut spending responsibly'

complete idiocy

democrats want to raise taxes on the only portions of america paying anything at all.... they enjoy the fact that half of america 'fairly' pays ABSOLUTELY NOTHING in income taxes

and they only want to cut spending on defense they arent interested in even looking at entitlement spending or social programs

I for one hope the tax cuts expire..... most of us will be just fine

the question for the democrats is......when will you pay your fair share??
Well personally I do not think that everyone should pay federal income tax. Everyone should probably make a social security contribution, but things like education are provided by the states and these are where lower income folks' taxes should be going.

Now, the US spends 5% of GDP on Defence. That is an awful lot. As I am sure you have heard before, it accounts for more than 40% of global military spending. There needs to be some level of cuts. You cut things like Medicare/caid which are more efficient and cheaper than leaving things to the free market, and the economic situation will dis-improve. Anyway, this is just basic economic logic. There is spending which I would like to see kept I am sure but the economic arguments might not be as strong.

Nonetheless while I empathise with the people of the US it doesnt really effect me. The federal government should get its house in order, with a combination of taxes and cuts. Its stuff like US emissions and foreign policy which I worry about, but yeah.
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Old November 10th, 2012, 02:54 PM   #49 (permalink)
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First of all, the idea that the cheapest and most efficient way to provide medical care is through the feds is laughable. Veterans get free medical care (as they should). The VA system (completely and totally federally funded and run) is a complete and total joke. I wouldn't take my dog to a VA hospital. The friends I've had who went there went there because they had to. The minute they got better insurance in place, they went somewhere else. The fact that they chose to pay to go to another hospital rather than the free federally funded care tells you something.

Second of all, neither party is proposing any cuts. They're proposing cut in increases on future spending. None of them are proposing actually cutting existing programs and spending less in the future.
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Old November 10th, 2012, 05:20 PM   #50 (permalink)
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First of all, the idea that the cheapest and most efficient way to provide medical care is through the feds is laughable. Veterans get free medical care (as they should). The VA system (completely and totally federally funded and run) is a complete and total joke. I wouldn't take my dog to a VA hospital. The friends I've had who went there went there because they had to. The minute they got better insurance in place, they went somewhere else. The fact that they chose to pay to go to another hospital rather than the free federally funded care tells you something.
Whatever about your biases against the VA system, I AM NOT ON ABOUT GOVERNMENT RUN HEALTHCARE.

All I said is that medicaid/care is currently more efficient than the pure free market alternative. I think they are shitty systems but the point stands.

You constantly fail to read what I say in my posts. I never mentioned veterans hospitals or whatever (which IMO are a completely ridiculous concept in the first place, but whatever).
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