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Old November 30th, 2012, 02:50 AM   #1 (permalink)
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Default Arctic Ice Melting At Alarming Rate

Who ya gonna believe, the oil companies or your lyin' eyes?

Arctic Sea Ice Larger Than US Melted This Year - ABC News

DOHA, Qatar —An area of Arctic sea ice bigger than the United States melted this year, according the U.N. weather agency, which said the dramatic decline illustrates that climate change is happening “before our eyes.”

In a report released at U.N. climate talks in the Qatari capital of Doha, the World Meteorological Organization said the Arctic ice melt was one of a myriad of extreme and record-breaking weather events to hit the planet in 2012. Droughts devastated nearly two-thirds of the United States as well western Russia and southern Europe. Floods swamped west Africa and heat waves left much of the Northern Hemisphere sweltering.

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Old November 30th, 2012, 11:13 AM   #2 (permalink)
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Its looking like the conservative projections made by a host of scientists (as opposed to the more extreme projections, there are usually a few given), are somewhat off. Very unfortunate really. A lot of England & Wales has suffered massive flooding over the past few days, it seems that weather patterns even here are becoming more erratic. Long term climate statistics show a lot of data on this, quite telling really.

Another thing is, I cant believe these negotiations are done in Doha, the emissions capital of the world. Shower of b'*****. Hope we will see some commitment, particularly from the West. China will struggle to see an emissions reduction before 2050 (which is fair enough).

Peak oil has proved to have been off due to higher oil prices leading to shale become profitable. Humanity has to come to terms with the fact that oil will have to be left in the ground, as will coal, and gas.
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Old November 30th, 2012, 05:32 PM   #3 (permalink)
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proven lies..... lies even confessed to by the liars
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Old December 1st, 2012, 06:15 AM   #4 (permalink)
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Greenland is melting, too.


Melting of ice sheets at the poles speeds up | The Detroit News | detroitnews.com


The new research concludes that Antarctica is melting, but points to the smaller ice sheet in Greenland, which covers most of the island, as the bigger and more pressing issue. Its melt rate has grown from about 55 billion tons a year in the 1990s to almost 290 billion tons a year recently, according to the study.

Scientists blame man-made global warming for the melting. Burning fossil fuels, such as coal and oil, emits carbon dioxide and other greenhouse gases that trap heat, warming the atmosphere and oceans. Bit by bit, that erodes the ice sheets from above and below. Snowfall replenishes the ice sheets, but hasn't kept pace with the rate of melting.
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Old December 1st, 2012, 03:03 PM   #5 (permalink)
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proven lies..... lies even confessed to by the liars
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Old December 1st, 2012, 06:19 PM   #6 (permalink)
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Lol
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Old December 1st, 2012, 08:57 PM   #7 (permalink)
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very good.... youve attempted to prove your point through ad hominem..... par for the course since this is the only logical argument the sky is falling crowd can muster
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Old December 3rd, 2012, 01:27 PM   #8 (permalink)
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The question is this: is this man-made or natural?

I can accept the caps might be melting if the science is solid and unbiased, but is it natural for the caps to melt? The G-Warm crowd says it is man made, case closed, and some scientists maintain it might be a natural thing. Heads are butted and the liberal media gets the last word and tie public is not learning the truth.
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Old December 4th, 2012, 12:22 PM   #9 (permalink)
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Climate Change Talks To Be Saved Again!

The annual UN Climate Change farce circus conference is meeting again right now over in Doha, and once again all the talk is about how the talks are on the “brink of collapse,” but once again you can be sure that an 11th hour agreement will be reached that promises to save the planet, but in reality just means we’ll all keep meeting because... well, what else do we have to do. (And as Mel Brooks says in Blazing Saddles, “We’ve got to do something to save our phoney-baloney jobs!”)
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Old December 4th, 2012, 12:32 PM   #10 (permalink)
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OMG . . . what a macaroon. This wanker knows less than zero about less than zero. No proof whatsoever. None. Zero. He thinks 1=.9999.5

I think man has proven his ability to do amazing things and make technological leaps that did not occur because of aliens; they occurred because you are smart and clever and you have always been smart and clever.

The wheel did not come from alien invention. Ogg saw a log rolling down the hill and thought about it and the wheel was created.

Drawings on cave walls do not show alien visitors. Man had an imagination even way back then and you have always liked to tell stories. Things like religon ossured to your species because you like to tell stories and control the other humans walking amongst you.

Not sure how you came up with Justin Bieber or Diet Coke, however.

I can well imagine a thousand years from now, someone discovering a Steven King novel buried in the rubble that was the SLC Public Library, and start wondering how we dealt with the haunted automobiles this King guy wrote about.

Give Me A Break.

Earth was created by happenstance and luck and the laws of physics and you humans formed and grew and prospered because it was/is natural to do so. You invented and grew and prospered and became dominant in the slum section of the galaxy, because it was natural for you.

No aliens have visited your little blue planet because we consider visiting Earth to be, how do you Earthlings say it? Slumming, yes, we call it slumming.

If you keep trying to prove we exist, well, it is butt implants and brain rewiring for you all.

So say Goth, Lord Purveyor of Planet Quagmyer, where every day is Giggity Giggity Day.
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Old December 4th, 2012, 12:45 PM   #11 (permalink)
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Its looking like the conservative projections made by a host of scientists (as opposed to the more extreme projections, there are usually a few given), are somewhat off. Very unfortunate really. A lot of England & Wales has suffered massive flooding over the past few days, it seems that weather patterns even here are becoming more erratic. Long term climate statistics show a lot of data on this, quite telling really.
People should try this: read the weather forecasts, take notes. Listen to the radio, take notes. Look at weather dot com and take notes.

Compare the notes to the actual weather that actually happens in your actual area, and guess what? Short term predictions are not always accurate.

Do you really think weather can be predicted hundred years from now, Mr. Skientist? Huh? Do 'ya? Hardly.

I recall a story that did not find its way across the net about a programmer that had a chance to look at the source code for some software written to predict the weather.

He claims some of the variables weren't; some data was hard coded in the software and he discovered that the software would always "predict" a dismal future.

I'll try to find the piece. Not sure what it means, but it sounds like cheating.

The weather on my cell right now says it is a nice day. Looking out my window reveals cold and rain and what a crappy day indeed. The Tribune forecast is wrong and it is different than the Desert news earlier today and none of it agreed with KNRS until an hour or so ago.
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Old December 6th, 2012, 02:29 AM   #12 (permalink)
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Carbon pollution up to 2 million pounds a second - Wire - NewsObserver.com

WASHINGTON -- The amount of heat-trapping pollution the world spewed rose again last year by 3 percent. So scientists say it's now unlikely that global warming can be limited to a couple of degrees, which is an international goal.

Because emissions of the key greenhouse gas have been rising steadily and most carbon stays in the air for a century, it is not just unlikely but "rather optimistic" to think that the world can limit future temperature increases to 2 degrees Celsius (3.6 degrees Fahrenheit), said the study's lead author, Glen Peters at the Center for International Climate and Environmental Research in Oslo, Norway.


Andrew Weaver, a climate scientist at the University of Victoria in Canada who was not part of the study, said: "We are losing control of our ability to get a handle on the global warming problem."
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Old December 9th, 2012, 06:30 AM   #13 (permalink)
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You know, it's really, REALLY sad...tragically sad that this issue is appearing in the politics section. This is about the death of our home planet; our only planet, not about naming a post office!
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Old December 9th, 2012, 06:36 AM   #14 (permalink)
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You know, it's really, REALLY sad...tragically sad that this issue is appearing in the politics section. This is about the death of our home planet; our only planet, not about naming a post office!
As long as we have cheap gas while we're here, right...?
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Old December 9th, 2012, 05:39 PM   #15 (permalink)
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As long as we have cheap gas while we're here, right...?
LOL...right down to the bitter end, just like the car race in "On The Beach", or the "Apocalypse" episode of Top Gear.

I am an unashamed sports car fan, and refuse to let go of my gas-guzzling Mustang. But considering that I fill its 15 gallon tank once a year on average, I have a lot less to feel guilty about than many Prious owners.

I live in a city that no longer has any passenger rail service, but has highways to/from it clogged with 40' semi tractor-trailers and 6-ton SUVs. The only train comes to replenish our downtown coal-fired power plant. The plant was being renovated for cleaner burning fuels until the GOP-dominated state halted the 99% complete project.
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Old December 9th, 2012, 06:11 PM   #16 (permalink)
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You know, it's really, REALLY sad...tragically sad that this issue is appearing in the politics section. This is about the death of our home planet; our only planet, not about naming a post office!
It's Politics and Current Affairs.

If this isn't a current affair with political overtones, I don't know what is.
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Old December 9th, 2012, 08:34 PM   #17 (permalink)
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It's Politics and Current Affairs.

If this isn't a current affair with political overtones, I don't know what is.
There you go again with your indisputable facts 'n' stuff... OK, that point goes to Early.

I still maintain that this should be in a category like "Emergencies - Top Priority" if there was a category like that. Anyone with kids has got to be scared about the mounting prospect that their beloved offspring might be doomed to live on a dystopian world of desperation, with panicking survivalists shooting it out and "100 year storms" destroying cities that nobody can afford to rebuild. IJS
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Old December 10th, 2012, 01:08 PM   #18 (permalink)
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It's Politics and Current Affairs.

If this isn't a current affair with political overtones, I don't know what is.
If one is talking about how to solve the issue, then it is politics. If not, its more general stuff. Don't disagree with you that this should be here, but yeah.
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Old December 10th, 2012, 05:06 PM   #19 (permalink)
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I would think there would have to be an issue to be solved in order to discuss ways to solve it
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Old December 10th, 2012, 10:53 PM   #20 (permalink)
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Call me ignorant, but I still think the wildly changing energies from the sun has something to do with the earth’s temperatures.
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Old December 11th, 2012, 03:13 PM   #21 (permalink)
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Call me ignorant, but I still think the wildly changing energies from the sun has something to do with the earth’s temperatures.
And not the pumping of greenhouse gases into our atmosphere, who's physical properties have been recognised for centuries?

People believe what they want to believe. Look at the targeting of the low information voter as an example. Unfortunately we now have the phenomena of armchair scientists, who wish to pluck whatever evidence to make lives more rosey for themselves.
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Old December 11th, 2012, 05:30 PM   #22 (permalink)
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so for the past 16 years those greenhouse gases did not exist?

because thats how long its been since there was any measurable increase in temperature
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Old December 11th, 2012, 05:50 PM   #23 (permalink)
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Why is it that listening to Rush Limbaugh a couple of hours a day makes people think they know more than scientists that have devoted their entire lives to studying a subject? Ignore the 99% consensus of the scientists and listen to the crackpots, most of whom work for the oil and coal companies. I don't get it.
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Old December 11th, 2012, 06:05 PM   #24 (permalink)
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Why is it that listening to Rush Limbaugh a couple of hours a day makes people think they know more than scientists that have devoted their entire lives to studying a subject? Ignore the 99% consensus of the scientists and listen to the crackpots, most of whom work for the oil and coal companies. I don't get it.
And why is it people that do not (and likely never have listened) listen to RL feel the need to tell those of us that have listened from almost the beginning what RL says and does not say? It is all about context, too.

There are many scientists that want serious science done and whenever they come up with a theory or idea or they point out the facts, they are shut down by a liberal press that also knows nothing about the crap they choose to spew.

Gore said the case is closed and people take his words over actual scientists and others that actually know what the hell they are talking about.
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Old December 11th, 2012, 09:31 PM   #25 (permalink)
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You really think serious science isn't being done now? I often hear right wingers refer to the climate change "hoax", but have yet to hear a believable motive for such a vast conspiracy. I choose to believe the science over some radio stooges, not to mention common sense.
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Old December 11th, 2012, 09:39 PM   #26 (permalink)
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not sure what RL has to do with it..... sounds like a strawman to avoid the facts.... there has been no warming at all in the past 16 years.... data posted by the alarmist scientists who have a consensus

data that directly disputes the 'facts' the consensus tells you to believe........ their own data doesnt support their conclusion

when asked how they can reach said conclusion they said 16 years isnt a long enough time period to say warming has stopped......... ironic since the warming period only lasted 15 years prior to that

and before that was I believe 30-40 years of cooling (this would be the period when the consensus told us that indisputable facts pointed to an impending ice age if we didnt do something to warm the planet)

and before that was a period of warming

and before that was a period of cooling

and before that was a period of warming

and before that was a period of cooling

and before that there was a consensus that one day the sky would fall

and chicken little lived happily ever after

fairytale over

its almost like the entire history of the planet has been comprised of periods of warming and cooling....... to much greater extremes than we have today
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Old December 12th, 2012, 12:39 AM   #27 (permalink)
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7 Charts that make it clear the planet is warming fast

"If you’re still not convinced, here’s what you should probably know. The Koch brothers, who own Koch Industries make billions from manufacturing, distributing and refining petroleum and other related products. They, along with Exxon Mobil, the largest private-held oil company, spend millions of dollars each year to fund studies that show how we are not passing through a period of global warming, or if we are, that has absolutely nothing to do with us – 9 out of 10 climate deniers can be linked with Exxon Mobil. This summer, Koch Ind. funded a study which backfired: the study clearly showed the earth is heating, and most, if not all the damage was caused by us humans."
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Old December 12th, 2012, 06:07 AM   #28 (permalink)
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oh brother straight from Limbaugh to the Koch brothers............ you forgot to mention roads and bridges or senior citizens in your talking points

and dont forget its probably Cheneys hurricane machine that originated this huge problem

the consensus says the facts are against the alarmists sheeple
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Old December 12th, 2012, 06:25 AM   #29 (permalink)
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Source? Link?
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Old December 12th, 2012, 06:06 PM   #30 (permalink)
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will have to search for the actual met office data after dinner....... but heres a start for ya..... it even has pretty pictures so alarmists can understand it

Global warming stopped 16 years ago, reveals Met Office report quietly released... and here is the chart to prove it | Mail Online
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Old December 15th, 2012, 09:04 AM   #31 (permalink)
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I guess the hottest summer on record, ever, was a hoax and conspiracy too. Just happens to happen when oil and coal usage is also at it highest usage rate ever too. Wow, what a coincidence!
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Old December 15th, 2012, 12:15 PM   #32 (permalink)
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Landmark climate change report leaked online | Environment | guardian.co.uk
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Old December 15th, 2012, 12:25 PM   #33 (permalink)
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I read somewhere that we were coming out of an ice age, which would explain the melting of the ice? Whether or not the changes are natural or man made, climate change is the biggest threat that we face right now.
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Old December 15th, 2012, 12:51 PM   #34 (permalink)
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I read somewhere that we were coming out of an ice age, which would explain the melting of the ice?
Uhm.. whether ice has enough latent heat to melt doesn't mean that the 1900s were an ice age.
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Old December 15th, 2012, 07:22 PM   #35 (permalink)
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Good example of the kookiness of the deniers. Take one sentence, out of context, call it a "game changer" and run with it. I don't get it.
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Old December 16th, 2012, 12:13 AM   #36 (permalink)
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and this my friends is the entire problem with the alarmists........their argument just cant hold water

<alarmists> we have created charts that show it will be 200 degrees hotter by next year

<deniers> your charts are false and heres the evidence

<alarmists> ya but the ice is melting and polar bears are going extinct

<deniers> heres the proof the ice is not melting at any level greater than the past and polar bears are actually increasing in numbers not going extinct

<alarmists> but you cannot deny the earth is warming and it has to be caused by humans

<me> it hasnt warmed in the past 16 years...... a period greater than the entire period it has warmed..... and if you look at historical records its due to a commonly occuring natural cycle

<deniers> show me proof... I demand proof

<me> post proof

<deniers> move on to new subject

YAWN

maybe you can go back to talking about roads and bridges ........ the rich hate them and should be punished you know
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Old January 8th, 2013, 06:02 PM   #37 (permalink)
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It's official: 2012 was the hottest year on record in the US.

Washington Post



Last year was the hottest on record for the contiguous United States, shattering the previous mark set in 1998 by
a wide margin, the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration announced Tuesday.
The average temperature was 55.3 degrees, 1 degree above the previous record and 3.2 degrees more than the
20th-century average. Temperatures were above normal in every month between June 2011 and September 2012,
a 16-month stretch that hasn’t occurred since the government began keeping such records in 1895.
Federal scientists said that the data are compelling evidence that climate change is affecting weather in the United
States and suggest that the nation’s weather is likely to be hotter, drier and potentially more extreme than it
would have been without the warmer temperatures.
Last year’s record temperature is “clearly symptomatic of a changing climate,” said Thomas R. Karl , who directs
NOAA’s National Climatic Data Center. Americans can now see the sustained warmth over the course of their own
lifetimes — “something we haven’t seen before.” He added, “That doesn’t mean every season and every year is
going to be breaking all-time records, but you’re going to see this with increasing frequency.”
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Old January 8th, 2013, 07:49 PM   #38 (permalink)
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You really think serious science isn't being done now? I often hear right wingers refer to the climate change "hoax", but have yet to hear a believable motive for such a vast conspiracy. I choose to believe the science over some radio stooges, not to mention common sense.
You are over thinking things. When Hollywood becomes hell bent on saving the planet and when the public is told what to think by people that have no right to discuss a highly complex issue because they are clueless fools, the science is left aside.

The public goes crazy because they are told to start worrying. Science disappears and is replaced by Al Gore and others.

If you work in Hollywood, you dance to their tune or you do not work. Simple as that.

The right-wingers do have a point . . . we need to study things. Unfortunately, if you do not agree with the left, you are an enemy of the state. If I had solid science on my side and I cried foul, nobody will listen.

Besides, Al gore said the case was closed, we are doomed.

When Streisand complains about our energy use, she does not take being told to be quiet lightly. She wants us all to save the planet, but she lives in a huge house. Like most in Hollywood, we are told to do what they tell us to do and never mind that they live in a huge energy sucking house.

The right will never have a say because regardless of how solid our science is, we cannot get an audience.

Serious science does not matter one GD bit.
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Old January 8th, 2013, 08:00 PM   #39 (permalink)
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Good example of the kookiness of the deniers. Take one sentence, out of context, call it a "game changer" and run with it. I don't get it.
Perhaps the fake footage of polar bears in peril is more to your liking? Al Gore did it and he admits it.

Here is the problem: we can trade links supporting our positions until the methane producing cows fart us into the next hot spell, with no resolution in sight.
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Old January 8th, 2013, 08:08 PM   #40 (permalink)
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I read somewhere that we were coming out of an ice age, which would explain the melting of the ice? Whether or not the changes are natural or man made, climate change is the biggest threat that we face right now.
I recall a program that showed it can be ten degrees hotter or cooler depending where you are on the Arctic ice. Some people use the hotter measurements to "prove" arctic ice is melting and others use the cooler climbs to prove the opposite.

Here in Utah, a local TV station took measurements from sensors placed near the heating ducts to "prove" our winters were cooler.

I'll give you this: perhaps we are in trouble and perhaps it is all about climate change. The real question is, do a few degrees in the next 100 years mean much? Some say the temperatures will rise by 3 or 4 degrees so buy a Prius.
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Old January 9th, 2013, 06:26 AM   #41 (permalink)
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The absence of an Arctic ice cap speaks for itself. Nobody can fake that! Same thing for the countless bare mountain tops, and the rivers that are running dry because there's not enough snow melt from these mountains to feed their tributaries.

This insane desire to "be right" on the part of those who deny the obvious is going to have consequences. I suppose that's OK for old people who will be gone by the time it gets really bad. But what about future generations? Is feeding a rapacious ego really more important than leaving behind a world that future generations can live in?
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Old January 9th, 2013, 07:24 PM   #42 (permalink)
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You know, it's really, REALLY sad...tragically sad that this issue is appearing in the politics section. This is about the death of our home planet; our only planet, not about naming a post office!
It is about politics... are you kidding?

It is about control. It is about cold hard cash. It is about the rest of planet trying to tell us what to do. It is about political power.

It is a highly political issue that has nothing to do with legitimate science.

Enjoy those glasses of Koolaide.
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Old January 9th, 2013, 07:32 PM   #43 (permalink)
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The absence of an Arctic ice cap speaks for itself. Nobody can fake that! Same thing for the countless bare mountain tops, and the rivers that are running dry because there's not enough snow melt from these mountains to feed their tributaries.

This insane desire to "be right" on the part of those who deny the obvious is going to have consequences. I suppose that's OK for old people who will be gone by the time it gets really bad. But what about future generations? Is feeding a rapacious ego really more important than leaving behind a world that future generations can live in?
Again, is it man made or natural? We do not know and anyone who says they know for sure is a fool or a liar.
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Old January 9th, 2013, 07:34 PM   #44 (permalink)
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and this my friends is the entire problem with the alarmists........their argument just cant hold water

<alarmists> we have created charts that show it will be 200 degrees hotter by next year

<deniers> your charts are false and heres the evidence

<alarmists> ya but the ice is melting and polar bears are going extinct

<deniers> heres the proof the ice is not melting at any level greater than the past and polar bears are actually increasing in numbers not going extinct

<alarmists> but you cannot deny the earth is warming and it has to be caused by humans

<me> it hasnt warmed in the past 16 years...... a period greater than the entire period it has warmed..... and if you look at historical records its due to a commonly occuring natural cycle

<deniers> show me proof... I demand proof

<me> post proof

<deniers> move on to new subject

YAWN

maybe you can go back to talking about roads and bridges ........ the rich hate them and should be punished you know
Is that from Mike Crichton? I forget the book, but your post seems familiar.
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Old January 9th, 2013, 08:32 PM   #45 (permalink)
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Thank gawd for global warming. Here in the Arizona mountains, we’d be frozen solid without it!
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Old January 10th, 2013, 04:52 AM   #46 (permalink)
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It is about politics... are you kidding?
...

It is about political power.
(That one shoots itself in the foot all by itself!)

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It is about the rest of planet trying to tell us what to do.
For the record, I for one do NOT believe that the whole world is out to get me. Speak for yourself, please.
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Old January 10th, 2013, 05:14 AM   #47 (permalink)
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Again, is it man made or natural? We do not know and anyone who says they know for sure is a fool or a liar.
We? Are you channeling Queen Victoria?

As a student of science, I have a reasonable knowledge of how ancient events can be read by the physical evidence left behind by them. Scientists can tell with great accuracy what the earth's climate was over millennia by examining Arctic ice core samples and other things. This is good, solid evidence that has withstood the test of peer scrutiny, and is not challenged by any enlightened theories. The evidence says that carbon dioxide levels have risen faster and greater than any time before. This period of time coincides precisely with the Industrial Revolution, a well-known source of man-made carbon-dioxide emissions.

Only God knows with 100% certainty, but 99.999% certainty is more than enough to be compelling evidence. Evidence enough to take action on. And the latest evidence from just the other day continues to support the original conclusion.

This is an issue where there is absolutely nothing useful in risking the future of the planet for something as petty as ego-feeding. The risks are huge! Far better to run a tiny risk of being mistaken than to be "dead right."
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