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Old January 9th, 2013, 10:03 AM   #201 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by A.Nonymous View Post
By that logic so is just about every business in the country.
Yep

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Originally Posted by sntaylor View Post
Agreed, It Is The Violence That Is The Primary Issue, Along With The Circumstances That Cause The Violence (Depravation, Gang WarFare And Mental Illness/Bullying Etc)

Yes Gun Crime Will Always Be An Issue As Long As There Is Crime, But Criminals Don't Tend To Be The People Shooting Up Schools, Cinemas Etc.... Even Here In The UK We Have Had Crazed MurderErs Such As The Guy In Yorkshire With AShotgun Who Shot A Few People And ran Down Others.... Dead -Less Than Ten (Can't Search It As Phone Is Playing Up) Over A Period A Couple Of Hours. Had He Had Access To Automatic Weaponry, Who Knows How Many Would Be Dead!

Fact Is These Occurrences Are Far RaRer Over Here Than Over There!
Fact is an AR 15 is NOT an automatic weapon. Automatic weapons are illegal and have been since 1931 for civilians.

Look at your population compared to the U.S. What's the per capita?

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Originally Posted by Thechidz View Post
wow. just wow. what are you smoking? so 27 deaths in the matter of minutes, which couldn't have happened without the use of semi-automatic weapons other than a bomb or an act of god, is sooooooo much more acceptable than 50 deaths in a matter of minutes? Do you even read what you post???
Bullsh*t. 20 elementary school kids and 7 adults in a "Gun Free Zone" could be taken out with a couple of revolvers and half a dozen speed loaders in far less that the average 10 minute law enforcement response time.

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yes the Osaka school massacre in 01...... using a kitchen knife he killed 8 and seriously wounded 15 others .. including 2 adults

ban kitchen knives!!!
No, ALL knives. If you only ban the kitchen knives, next time they will use box cutters (Oh that happened once and 3000 people died. Think I read that on the internet.)
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Old January 9th, 2013, 10:12 AM   #202 (permalink)
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Stop me if i'm wrong but were there many automatic weapons in the hands of the general public in 1927? If not it's a silly point to make.
Yes there were. Tommy guns and other "machine guns" were readily available at that time, Al Capone used them extensively and they were legally available to the general public. They were fully automatic. In 1931 they were outlawed.

Fully automatic guns are only available to certain FFL holders and collectors, they are VERY strictly regulated and more than a simple background check is required to have one in your possession, let alone own one.

I know my SEMI-AUTOMATIC AR 15 SPORT RIFLE/CARBINE looks scary to you, but please stop trying to make these into "assault weapons". An "assault weapon", as clearly defined is FULL AUTOMATIC.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=q2riOiBaZrg

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=q2riOiBaZrg

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=q2riOiBaZrg
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Old January 9th, 2013, 11:07 AM   #203 (permalink)
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Look at your population compared to the U.S. What's the per capita?
The per capita is a lot less. Like their greenhouse gas emissions. Unlike their foreign aid.
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Old January 9th, 2013, 11:46 AM   #204 (permalink)
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I feel like I need to point out the cultural differences between the UK and the US. Completely different culture.
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Old January 10th, 2013, 07:26 AM   #205 (permalink)
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I feel like I need to point out the cultural differences between the UK and the US. Completely different culture.
Yes, but at least they aren't the French, LOL.
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Old January 10th, 2013, 06:04 PM   #206 (permalink)
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Yes there were. Tommy guns and other "machine guns" were readily available at that time, Al Capone used them extensively and they were legally available to the general public. They were fully automatic. In 1931 they were outlawed.

Fully automatic guns are only available to certain FFL holders and collectors, they are VERY strictly regulated and more than a simple background check is required to have one in your possession, let alone own one.

I know my SEMI-AUTOMATIC AR 15 SPORT RIFLE/CARBINE looks scary to you, but please stop trying to make these into "assault weapons". An "assault weapon", as clearly defined is FULL AUTOMATIC.
Excellent post, although I haven't missed the seemingly minor word swap that has created the undefined term "assault weapon".

Those of us who have studied history know that the assault rifle was invented in Nazi Germany at the end of WWII as a rifle that was more compact (like the Carbine) than the traditional battle rifle (which was more or less the same as a hunting rifle), but with a longer barrel for greater standoff range than a Carbine. This German design has evolved into the modern assault rifle, which has proved to be a major improvement in combat and in places where humans are still prey for the local wildlife.

But an assault weapon? That's a slippery slope! If we use this new term that was born out of hysteria, an "assault weapon" ban could make pretty much anything that can be held in your hand illegal, from tools to rocks.

Although I believe that something must be done to address the recent American societal trend that has legitimized the idea that it's OK to use handguns in a wanton fashion, I strongly disagree with letting the least informed Americans drive this change. I lived in Chicago during Richard M. Daly's handgun ban there, and saw first-hand that it made a small crime problem the worst crime problem in the nation. During the ban, the annual murder rate in Chicago exceeded 600 for several years in a row. Only a year after the ban was lifted (it's unconstitutional), Chicago's death rate has plunged to 500.

I'm not saying that we need to have every man, woman and child carrying firearms to "keep us safe". But I am saying that bans on inanimate objects have never solved the problem. Whether the "assault weapon" is a rifle that is self-reloading (a.k.a. "semi-automatic") or a board with a nail in it, the most dangerous thing that needs to be changed is the squishy matter between our ears.
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Old January 10th, 2013, 06:59 PM   #207 (permalink)
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BBC News - Californian teacher talks student out of high school shooting
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Old January 10th, 2013, 11:42 PM   #208 (permalink)
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That was in my area where it happened.
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Old January 11th, 2013, 07:24 AM   #209 (permalink)
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Excellent post, although I haven't missed the seemingly minor word swap that has created the undefined term "assault weapon".

But an assault weapon? That's a slippery slope! If we use this new term that was born out of hysteria, an "assault weapon" ban could make pretty much anything that can be held in your hand illegal, from tools to rocks.

Although I believe that something must be done to address the recent American societal trend that has legitimized the idea that it's OK to use handguns in a wanton fashion, I strongly disagree with letting the least informed Americans drive this change. I lived in Chicago during Richard M. Daly's handgun ban there, and saw first-hand that it made a small crime problem the worst crime problem in the nation. During the ban, the annual murder rate in Chicago exceeded 600 for several years in a row. Only a year after the ban was lifted (it's unconstitutional), Chicago's death rate has plunged to 500.

I'm not saying that we need to have every man, woman and child carrying firearms to "keep us safe". But I am saying that bans on inanimate objects have never solved the problem. Whether the "assault weapon" is a rifle that is self-reloading (a.k.a. "semi-automatic") or a board with a nail in it, the most dangerous thing that needs to be changed is the squishy matter between our ears.
The trend I believe is NOT that it's being legitimized, but glorified. The media is all over these incidents 24 hours a day, adding fuel to some mental fire. The crazies see this and recognize a way to finally "be something". But nobody is talking about limititing the first ammendment (freedom of the press). Which is good, that is a right guaranteed by the Constitution of the U.S. Just like the 2nd ammedment, the right to keep and bare arms.

Technology has changed, we no longer have just "printing presses", we have media. TV, radio, internet et. al. are new technology, but they are still considered "the press" and it has stood up in the highest courts. "Arms" now cannot be construed to be muskets and black powder cannons, because in that area technology has advanced as well. But the right remains as part of our Constitution.
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Old January 11th, 2013, 03:33 PM   #210 (permalink)
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The trend I believe is NOT that it's being legitimized, but glorified. The media is all over these incidents 24 hours a day, adding fuel to some mental fire. The crazies see this and recognize a way to finally "be something". But nobody is talking about limititing the first ammendment (freedom of the press). Which is good, that is a right guaranteed by the Constitution of the U.S. Just like the 2nd ammedment, the right to keep and bare arms.

Technology has changed, we no longer have just "printing presses", we have media. TV, radio, internet et. al. are new technology, but they are still considered "the press" and it has stood up in the highest courts. "Arms" now cannot be construed to be muskets and black powder cannons, because in that area technology has advanced as well. But the right remains as part of our Constitution.
That is one of the best answers to the 2nd amendment was for muskets debate I have ever seen. I don't know how I could say it any better. Very well put.


I am just blown away by what I came across last night. It is absolutely horrible and I just don't understand how someone can construct something like it.

There are rumors going around (spread by conspiracy theorists) saying that the Sandy Hook shooting was staged by the President himself to give him the edge he needed to get a gun ban started... Seriously how can someone be so low to say something like that? It just angers me to hear things like that. Let the families grieve and leave them alone, don't go out trying to tell them their children didn't really die. They know what happened more than what anyone will.

First a lawsuit now this.. I really am losing hope in the human race
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Old January 12th, 2013, 04:14 AM   #211 (permalink)
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The trend I believe is NOT that it's being legitimized, but glorified.
That's a trivial distinction. Glorification inevitably leads to legitimization in people's minds.

Quote:
The media is all over these incidents 24 hours a day, adding fuel to some mental fire. The crazies see this and recognize a way to finally "be something".
Yes, it's hard to dismiss the sudden rash of killings as anything other than the copycat effect. This is yet another reason why nothing less than personal responsibility must be the point of focus when it comes to solving this problem.

Quote:
But nobody is talking about limititing the first ammendment (freedom of the press). Which is good, that is a right guaranteed by the Constitution of the U.S. Just like the 2nd ammedment, the right to keep and bare [sic] arms.
No, bare arms aren't a right, and unless you have guns like Michelle Obama, you'd be right to keep 'em covered.

Why don't we look at the actual, complete text of both amendments?

Amendment I:
"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances."

Amendment II:
"A well regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed."

Quote:
Technology has changed, we no longer have just "printing presses", we have media. TV, radio, internet et. al. are new technology, but they are still considered "the press" and it has stood up in the highest courts. "Arms" now cannot be construed to be muskets and black powder cannons, because in that area technology has advanced as well. But the right remains as part of our Constitution.
I agree wholeheartedly. The authors of the Constitution were not so addled that they had no concept of time, and how things change with time. On the contrary, they were the same people who employed "radical new technologies" such as guerrilla warfare and submarines to win their freedom from Britain!

"Strict Constructionism" has no real legitimate basis, and is itself nothing but another way to commit fraud.
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Old January 12th, 2013, 04:28 AM   #212 (permalink)
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I really am losing hope in the human race
Before you do, you might want to look at history and read just how hazardous, gory and just plain cruel life has been over most of recorded history.

The truth is that we now live in a period of unprecedented peace, and the vast majority of us are safe from diseases that used to make human life short and very uncomfortable to say the least. The reason why so many people are reacting so extremely to the recent killings is because peace and safety has become so widespread that most of us now take it for granted.

Life is nor perfectly safe or fair. It never was, and never will be. But it is improving overall.

Instead of condemning all mankind in one fell swoop, why not be grateful for the abundance of blessings that we enjoy, and continue to improve the system?
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Old January 12th, 2013, 08:47 AM   #213 (permalink)
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Fact is an AR 15 is NOT an automatic weapon. Automatic weapons are illegal and have been since 1931 for civilians.)
Please check your facts. You CAN purchase a fully automatic weapon. Not to mention, a silencer. Nothing illegal, just costly.
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Old January 12th, 2013, 09:26 AM   #214 (permalink)
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Please check your facts. You CAN purchase a fully automatic weapon. Not to mention, a silencer. Nothing illegal, just costly.
Without resorting to nit-picking, "AR-15" typically refers to the civilian version of Stoner's "black gun" that operates only in single shot mode, and "M-16" is commonly used to denote the selective fire military variant.

Whether or not any one of us can purchase a Class III weapon is hardly a certainty. Are any of us Class III certified?
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Old January 12th, 2013, 10:19 AM   #215 (permalink)
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That is one of the best answers to the 2nd amendment was for muskets debate I have ever seen. I don't know how I could say it any better. Very well put.


I am just blown away by what I came across last night. It is absolutely horrible and I just don't understand how someone can construct something like it.

There are rumors going around (spread by conspiracy theorists) saying that the Sandy Hook shooting was staged by the President himself to give him the edge he needed to get a gun ban started... Seriously how can someone be so low to say something like that? It just angers me to hear things like that. Let the families grieve and leave them alone, don't go out trying to tell them their children didn't really die. They know what happened more than what anyone will.

First a lawsuit now this.. I really am losing hope in the human race
The same thing happened after 9-11 to President Bush. Everyone was sure that "he and his cronies" plotted, hired and staged the World Trade center tragedy so he would have an excuse for war.
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Old January 12th, 2013, 10:21 AM   #216 (permalink)
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Without resorting to nit-picking, "AR-15" typically refers to the civilian version of Stoner's "black gun" that operates only in single shot mode, and "M-16" is commonly used to denote the selective fire military variant.

Whether or not any one of us can purchase a Class III weapon is hardly a certainty. Are any of use Class III certified?
+1
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Old January 12th, 2013, 10:32 AM   #217 (permalink)
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That's a trivial distinction. Glorification inevitably leads to legitimization in people's minds.

Possible primarily for uninformed, uneducated. Sheeples willing to take someone else's word without checking facts, or taking many points of view into account. IMO

"Strict Constructionism" has no real legitimate basis, and is itself nothing but another way to commit fraud.

Disagree about the use of the term "fraud", but I see where you're at with it.
...
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Old January 12th, 2013, 11:47 AM   #218 (permalink)
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The same thing happened after 9-11 to President Bush. Everyone was sure that "he and his cronies" plotted, hired and staged the World Trade center tragedy so he would have an excuse for war.
To be fair it wasn't "everyone". It was a very small minority.

Although the 9-11 attacks were obviously not staged, we should not forget that all of the excuses for letting Osama Bin Laden go free and invading Iraq instead were in fact lies. In a sad irony, more "friendly" lives were lost in the invasion and occupation of Iraq than were lost on 9-11.
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Old January 12th, 2013, 04:46 PM   #219 (permalink)
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To be fair it wasn't "everyone". It was a very small minority.

Although the 9-11 attacks were obviously not staged, we should not forget that all of the excuses for letting Osama Bin Laden go free and invading Iraq instead were in fact lies. In a sad irony, more "friendly" lives were lost in the invasion and occupation of Iraq than were lost on 9-11.
Sadly, it wasn't a small minority. It's like 1 in 3 who think 9/11 was covered up.
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Old January 14th, 2013, 11:07 AM   #220 (permalink)
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Sadly, it wasn't a small minority. It's like 1 in 3 who think 9/11 was covered up.
What poll said that?

If it's true, it's a sad commentary about the ignorance of the American people.
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Old January 14th, 2013, 04:41 PM   #221 (permalink)
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What poll said that?

If it's true, it's a sad commentary about the ignorance of the American people.
Some AP poll taken around the time of the ten year anniversary. Too lazy to look it up right now. Not gonna lie.
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Old January 14th, 2013, 05:37 PM   #222 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Speed Daemon View Post
Without resorting to nit-picking, "AR-15" typically refers to the civilian version of Stoner's "black gun" that operates only in single shot mode, and "M-16" is commonly used to denote the selective fire military variant.

Whether or not any one of us can purchase a Class III weapon is hardly a certainty. Are any of us Class III certified?


Actually the average citizen can purchase class 3 weapons. A couple hundred dollars and 3 month or so wait while the BATFE does its thing and you can purchase a short barrelled rifle, suppressors, etc.
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Old January 14th, 2013, 08:18 PM   #223 (permalink)
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I just came home and my wife said she read that the whole Sandy Hook was staged. I'm not sure if it was posted in this thread but I found a whole lot of links stating it was

http://www.infowars.com/sandy-hook-shooting-active-shooter-drill-confirmed-by-law-enforcement-raises-suspicion-of-false-flag-operation/
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Old January 15th, 2013, 09:19 AM   #224 (permalink)
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I watched a video describing why some people say that it was.. I posted about it but did not post the link because I think it is absolute hog-wash haha
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Old January 15th, 2013, 10:20 AM   #225 (permalink)
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Actually the average citizen can purchase class 3 weapons. A couple hundred dollars and 3 month or so wait while the BATFE does its thing and you can purchase a short barrelled rifle, suppressors, etc.
Do you have any other evidence (aside from your claim) that the BATFE is nothing but a formality? What does that have to do with the topic?
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Old January 15th, 2013, 10:31 AM   #226 (permalink)
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I watched a video describing why some people say that it was.. I posted about it but did not post the link because I think it is absolute hog-wash haha
Never mind the fact that the CT stuff completely fails to make it sown the slippery slope they claim. What on earth possesses people to pass junk like that along as if it were worth something? Is there a pandemic of people who have no working "reality filters"?
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Old January 15th, 2013, 10:46 AM   #227 (permalink)
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Do you have any other evidence (aside from your claim) that the BATFE is nothing but a formality? What does that have to do with the topic?
You're asking what this has to do with the topic? I'm responding to your post..

http://db.tt/oaxGikE6

PDF file on the steps. I can link the actual instructions from the BATFE website, but this is easier for the layman to understand. Not calling you a layman BTW.
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Old January 15th, 2013, 04:08 PM   #228 (permalink)
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Linking something from infowars? bahahaha

Next up: Earthquake in Sicily caused by secret imperialist American nuclear testing. ON THE MOON.
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Old January 15th, 2013, 07:46 PM   #229 (permalink)
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Just like we ask the media to do for the unfortunate victims of Newtown, I think it's time to just let this thread rest in peace. Based on the recent activity, it really is no longer even serving the purpose of the original posted issue. Let's move on.
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Old January 16th, 2013, 07:57 AM   #230 (permalink)
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Just like we ask the media to do for the unfortunate victims of Newtown, I think it's time to just let this thread rest in peace. Based on the recent activity, it really is no longer even serving the purpose of the original posted issue. Let's move on.
Agree, when conspiracy therorists enter, rational discussions are at an end.
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Old January 16th, 2013, 09:58 AM   #231 (permalink)
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Without resorting to nit-picking, "AR-15" typically refers to the civilian version of Stoner's "black gun" that operates only in single shot mode, and "M-16" is commonly used to denote the selective fire military variant.

Whether or not any one of us can purchase a Class III weapon is hardly a certainty. Are any of us Class III certified?
I most likely could. I do not see any issues in my past that would cause me to fail the BG check.

The issue for me is the cost. I just do not see how I can justify the cost. 30 seconds of fun and a pile of brass or a new phone. I would prefer the phone, I think.

The license fees, other fees, probably fees I am not aware of. Then there is the cost of the gun and the cost of the ammo.

I would rather put the cash into something longer lasting.
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Old January 16th, 2013, 10:00 AM   #232 (permalink)
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Linking something from infowars? bahahaha

Next up: Earthquake in Sicily caused by secret imperialist American nuclear testing. ON THE MOON.
Hey, I know a thing or three. Just remember . . . what happens on the moon STAYS on the moon.
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Old January 16th, 2013, 10:11 AM   #233 (permalink)
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I most likely could. I do not see any issues in my past that would cause me to fail the BG check.

The issue for me is the cost. I just do not see how I can justify the cost. 30 seconds of fun and a pile of brass or a new phone. I would prefer the phone, I think.

The license fees, other fees, probably fees I am not aware of. Then there is the cost of the gun and the cost of the ammo.

I would rather put the cash into something longer lasting.
I'm told ammo is fairly cheap. Apparently it goes on sale frequently and keeps forever so it's easy to stock up on. Not being a gun owner myself I don't know for sure, but this is what I've been told.

A few years back there was a serial killer in my city. He had killed 7-8 people and they had few leads at all on who he was. All they knew is that he was active again after a couple of decades and was sending letters to the police taunting them and talking about how he was currently stalking another victim. Needless to say I was a little freaked out and went to a gun store for the very first time to look for a handgun. The prices on them were way, way too much for me so I went and got a dog instead. Serial killer has since been caught. Dog is gone now, but I still think I got a better deal.
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Old January 16th, 2013, 12:08 PM   #234 (permalink)
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You're asking what this has to do with the topic? I'm responding to your post..
IMHO this is a place where context is everything. I know it's easy to go off on a tangent, and since no Class III weapon owners are at issue in this discussion, I don't see nay productive reason to say any more about Class III weapons beyond affirming that rootbrain's post was in fact reasonable and accurate, which was what I did.

My intent is to settle the points and move on, not go off on a tangent. Sorry if I misled you in any way.
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Old January 16th, 2013, 12:11 PM   #235 (permalink)
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Agree, when conspiracy therorists enter, rational discussions are at an end.
I second that.

Because this thread was started to report the shootings in Newtown, why don't we honor the dead and their survivors by taking the con control discussion to its own topic.
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Old January 16th, 2013, 12:53 PM   #236 (permalink)
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Default Re: 18 Kids and 9 Others Shot Dead in CT.

Works for me.
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