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Old December 16th, 2012, 03:34 PM   #1 (permalink)
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Default Michigan - Right To Work

I am surprised nobody has brought up Unions, Michigan and Right to Work Laws. It is in the news and it is quite a battle.

Seems lots of people do not understand the current battles in Michigan and what a right to work law(s) really means for the employee and the union.

Some/many think it damages the employee and others think it hurts unions and some are mislead by the rhetoric and think something else.

Basically, it means you will not be required to join a union as a condition of employment. Unions do not like this because it lessens their peer and takes money out of their coffers.

Thoughts and comments?

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Old December 16th, 2012, 07:22 PM   #2 (permalink)
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Wouldn't it allow those workers to get the benefit of representation, such as benefit of grievous procedure, contract, health care, all those things that unions administer in a contract, and they don't have to pay their fair share for the cost of that representation?
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Old December 16th, 2012, 08:10 PM   #3 (permalink)
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Unions made Michigan what it is today... bankrupt.
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Old December 16th, 2012, 09:18 PM   #4 (permalink)
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I've seen alot of companies going or gone through bankruptcy without unions involved. What are their reasons?
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Old December 16th, 2012, 09:56 PM   #5 (permalink)
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I have no idea what companies you're talking about, so how can I answer that.

A. Detroit is very heavily unionized.
B. Detroit is about to file for bankruptcy.
C. Set me staright and explain how A has nothing to do with B.
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Old December 16th, 2012, 10:34 PM   #6 (permalink)
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So you're talking about the City of Detroit is heavily unionized?
The City of Detrois is filing bankruptcy because of the unions?

The topic is about the State of Michigan going with the RTW. I assume it refers to alot of companies and cities etc, will take advantage of this new law, state wide.
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Old December 16th, 2012, 10:50 PM   #7 (permalink)
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God bless Michigan. Now the companies based in the state will be more competitive with rival companies around the world. Those foreign companies don't have to overpay workers and pay the Cadillac pensions that the unions imposed on corporations years ago.
I hope there are more "right to work" states around the corner. Republicans control lots of governorships and the state houses, so it is a possibility.
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Old December 17th, 2012, 12:54 PM   #8 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by saptech View Post
Wouldn't it allow those workers to get the benefit of representation, such as benefit of grievous procedure, contract, health care, all those things that unions administer in a contract, and they don't have to pay their fair share for the cost of that representation?
Not the point. I suppose if you join a union you have access to things non-union do not have access to.

The point is not being forced to join a union as a condition of employment.
If you are do not want to join the union you do not have access to whatever union membership provides.

It is about choice.
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Old December 17th, 2012, 12:59 PM   #9 (permalink)
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Unions were once needed. But that was back in the day when manufacturers were horrible. Poor working conditions, slave wages and the like. So for the time, Unions were important and a good thing.

Now, they do more damage than good. they have power and they do not want it eroded. I think Michigan is doing the right thing. We do not need unions these days.
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Old December 17th, 2012, 02:41 PM   #10 (permalink)
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I don't know that unions are no longer needed at all. They have their places. I worked at a place that didn't have a union and desperately needed one. They treated employees like crap, routinely singled out one or two to dump crap on and blatantly played favorites. They had a girl they wanted to promote to a managerial position because she was their current favorite. The job description they posted clearly stated a college degree was required and she didn't have one. They changed the job requirements, hired her and claimed the job had always required a just a diploma. Later on they wanted to promote her to an upper management job. The description they posted required 5 years experience. She had been there 4. They changed it to say 3 and claimed it had always been that way. More than once they did crap like this. A union would've done so much good there. Unfortunately the admins there put a rule in the handbook that said if you unionized or tried to unionize it was grounds for termination. This is most likely blatantly illegal, but what can you do? You can try to form a union, get fired, then challenge it in court. Is it worth it? Once you win and get your job back they nitpick your work and find something wrong (and you can find something with anyone if you look hard enough) and then fire you for that.
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Old December 17th, 2012, 08:56 PM   #11 (permalink)
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Unions still have their place in alot of companies. Yes, Michigan, with alot of car mfgs and after market companies have been high paying jobs, but what about those low paying jobs and employees.

I'll admit, unions may not be as good as the old days, but still are needed to keep the companies from treating the employees however they feel.
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Old January 2nd, 2013, 08:52 AM   #12 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by saptech View Post
Wouldn't it allow those workers to get the benefit of representation, such as benefit of grievous procedure, contract, health care, all those things that unions administer in a contract, and they don't have to pay their fair share for the cost of that representation?
Colorado is a right to work state. We don't have to be members of a union, but we still have to pay union dues and the union still has to "represent" us if we do.

But like a union steward told me years ago, there's "Represent" and there's "represent", ya know?
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Old January 2nd, 2013, 08:53 AM   #13 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by saptech View Post
Unions still have their place in alot of companies. Yes, Michigan, with alot of car mfgs and after market companies have been high paying jobs, but what about those low paying jobs and employees.

I'll admit, unions may not be as good as the old days, but still are needed to keep the companies from treating the employees however they feel.
Thanks to a union, my Twinkies are gone!
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Old January 2nd, 2013, 03:54 PM   #14 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rootbrain View Post
Thanks to a union, my Twinkies are gone!
In all fairness, Twinkies are horrible. I'm unsure how Americans actually keep eating half the stuff they eat when they return from abroad!
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Old January 2nd, 2013, 05:45 PM   #15 (permalink)
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In all fairness, Twinkies are horrible. I'm unsure how Americans actually keep eating half the stuff they eat when they return from abroad!

Like the UK is known for its fine cuisine. Just saying. :-)
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Old January 2nd, 2013, 06:04 PM   #16 (permalink)
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Like the UK is known for its fine cuisine. Just saying. :-)
Ah god, I'm not on about cuisine, I'm on about taste

Besides, look at the great British recipes like Indian Curry or Chilli Con Carne.
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Old January 2nd, 2013, 07:08 PM   #17 (permalink)
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Nothing tastes better than good old fashioned American BBQ. Besides, neither curry, nor chili con carne are British inventions. Just saying.
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Old January 2nd, 2013, 07:33 PM   #18 (permalink)
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Nothing tastes better than good old fashioned American BBQ. Besides, neither curry, nor chili con carne are British inventions. Just saying.
I think he was joking about British cuisine but I could be wrong...

I hear you on BBQ. There's things that I miss about Pennsylvania food wise where I grew up but BBQ here in Texas is tough to beat. BBQ down here revolves around beef brisket but you'll also find sausage links, chicken, ribs, etc..
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Old January 2nd, 2013, 08:36 PM   #19 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rootbrain View Post
Thanks to a union, my Twinkies are gone!
You need to thank management for your Twinkies being gone.
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Old January 8th, 2013, 03:58 AM   #20 (permalink)
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I like some unions and others I think protect a lazy worker. NFL players union is needed badly. Truck driving unions are not needed. I've never heard of a place closing due to a lack of a union.
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Old January 15th, 2013, 11:41 AM   #21 (permalink)
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When times are good and there's no shortage of jobs, the market takes care of the worker. How else will employers attract people unless they offer more than the others. When times are tough, that's when you need unions to protect those in work and make sure they're not screwed by management chasing the bottom line.
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Old January 15th, 2013, 03:10 PM   #22 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Davdi View Post
When times are good and there's no shortage of jobs, the market takes care of the worker. How else will employers attract people unless they offer more than the others. When times are tough, that's when you need unions to protect those in work and make sure they're not screwed by management chasing the bottom line.

Must decide these things on a case by case basis. When unions formed, the worker was screwed and manufacturers did not care much about their workers, and many were abused.

These days, we have laws and we have a legal system that encourages you to sue over every little thing. And for good reason.

Always remember that when unions began, it did not take them very long to learn how to put their interests before the company interests and they stuck the worker in the middle.

Workers were tools used by the unions to get whatever the unions wanted. Unions were horrible back in the day and not much has changed except perhaps for a declining membership and Right To Work Laws making it more difficult on the Union.
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Old January 15th, 2013, 04:01 PM   #23 (permalink)
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Default Re: Michigan - Right To Work

Michigan has a long history with labor struggles that precedes many states' formation. I wouldn't join one personally but I understand the need to strike a balance. We have become over "company focused" in this country.

If companies and investors have created an unceasingly better lifestyle for Americans in general, I'm not seeing it
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Old January 18th, 2013, 03:37 PM   #24 (permalink)
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Quote:
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Michigan has a long history with labor struggles that precedes many states' formation. I wouldn't join one personally but I understand the need to strike a balance. We have become over "company focused" in this country.

If companies and investors have created an unceasingly better lifestyle for Americans in general, I'm not seeing it
We are generally richer, safer, more healthy and we live longer. We have a legal system second to none and we are generally more happy these days.

We have access to cheap power, clean water, cheap technology and even the poor among us are far better off here, than in most other places in the world.

It ain't as dire and one might think.

Unions were important at one time, but that was before they became corrupt and unreasonable.
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