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Old January 9th, 2013, 01:47 PM   #1 (permalink)
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Default Executive Order to Deal With Guns

Biden: Obama Might Use Executive Order to Deal With Guns

Vice President Joe Biden revealed that President Barack Obama might use an executive order to deal with guns.

"The president is going to act," said Biden, giving some comments to the press before a meeting with victims of gun violence. "There are executives orders, there's executive action that can be taken. We haven't decided what that is yet. But we're compiling it all with the help of the attorney general and the rest of the cabinet members as well as legislative action that we believe is required."

Biden said that this is a moral issue and that "it's critically important that we act."

Biden talked also about taking responsible action. "As the president said, if you're actions result in only saving one life, they're worth taking. But I'm convinced we can affect the well-being of millions of americans and take thousands of people out of harm's way if we act responsibly."

Biden, as he himself noted, helped write the Brady bill.
Eric Holder was scheduled to be at the meeting that's currently take place at the White House.
Iím nearing sixty and have never owned or used a gun. But seeing what a target Iíll be if Iím not on the proposed registered owner list makes me feel that Iíd better get one. But if I get one, legally, will the helicopters come and snatch it, making me an even brighter target?


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Old January 9th, 2013, 07:16 PM   #2 (permalink)
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Biden talked also about taking responsible action. "As the president said, if you're actions result in only saving one life, they're worth taking. But I'm convinced we can affect the well-being of millions of americans and take thousands of people out of harm's way if we act responsibly."

Biden, as he himself noted, helped write the Brady bill.
Eric Holder was scheduled to be at the meeting that's currently take place at the White House.
Iím nearing sixty and have never owned or used a gun. But seeing what a target Iíll be if Iím not on the proposed registered owner list makes me feel that Iíd better get one. But if I get one, legally, will the helicopters come and snatch it, making me an even brighter target?
Hey Biden., your Brady Bill sucked and it did nothing worth a damm. And NO, saving a single life is NOT worth trampling our freedoms. Those kids in those schools died and protecting my right (and yours) to keep and bear arms is vastly more important than the loss of life at school.

The government will get us if we let them. This is why we must vote idiots out, vote strong conservitives in and keep an eye on SCOTUS.
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Old January 9th, 2013, 08:48 PM   #3 (permalink)
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I personally wouldnt try to say what saving a life is worth....... but what I will say is there is absolutely zero evidence that a complete 100% total ban on all guns will save a single life....... in fact there is irrefutable proof that lives will be lost with or without guns
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Old January 9th, 2013, 09:28 PM   #4 (permalink)
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there is absolutely zero evidence that a complete 100% total ban on all guns will save a single life
That the guvmnt would try confiscating all arms is laughable, not to mention impossible. Not only that, it would cause more deaths than what they trying to prevent... but this is an admin that might try it.
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Old January 9th, 2013, 10:08 PM   #5 (permalink)
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Something needs to be done about the violence with our young people.

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In 2008 and 2009, the number of children and teens killed was greater than the number of U.S. military personnel killed in action in Iraq and Afghanistan, according to the Children’s Defense Fund report.
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Old January 9th, 2013, 10:46 PM   #6 (permalink)
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I personally wouldnt try to say what saving a life is worth....... but what I will say is there is absolutely zero evidence that a complete 100% total ban on all guns will save a single life....... in fact there is irrefutable proof that lives will be lost with or without guns

I agree.

Take the honest person's guns away and criminals will rejoice. No worrying about getting shot by an angry home owner.
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Old January 9th, 2013, 10:50 PM   #7 (permalink)
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Something needs to be done about the violence with our young people.
And bathtubs. According to this:

43,000 Children Injured in Bathtub Slips and Falls in U.S. Each Year | Attorney At Law

43,000 kids are injured in bathtub slip and falls.
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Old January 9th, 2013, 10:54 PM   #8 (permalink)
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That the guvmnt would try confiscating all arms is laughable, not to mention impossible. Not only that, it would cause more deaths than what they trying to prevent... but this is an admin that might try it.
My theory is people will not give up their guns.

Politicians know this.

Whatever the administration does, they will be carefully watched and at the first site of a possible ban, the whole of Hell will open.

Politicians are gutless. they want to please their voters, keep the cushy job and get reelected.
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Old January 9th, 2013, 11:41 PM   #9 (permalink)
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And bathtubs. According to this:

43,000 Children Injured in Bathtub Slips and Falls in U.S. Each Year | Attorney At Law

43,000 kids are injured in bathtub slip and falls.
I'm not understanding what kids being injured in the bathtub have to do with more kids being killed on our streets than those killed in the military.

O well!
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Old January 10th, 2013, 04:36 AM   #10 (permalink)
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Hey Biden., your Brady Bill sucked and it did nothing worth a damm.
Ah...the Brady Bill has nothing to do with Vice President Biden (it was passed in 1993) and everything to do with Ronald Reagan and his press secretary James Brady. It was a Republican initiative.

The notion that Democrats are out to confiscate your guns, and that Republicans are for liberty has no factual basis. The neocons at the Weekly Standard cannot be trusted to tell the truth.

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The government will get us if we let them. This is why we must vote idiots out, vote strong conservitives in and keep an eye on SCOTUS.
When you consider that it's the "strong conservitives" that are working hard to overthrow our Constitutional government and replace it with an authoritarian tyranny, handing absolute power over to a right-wing authoritarian strongmen is the surest way to see our Constitutional liberties go away forever.
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Old January 10th, 2013, 12:22 PM   #11 (permalink)
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"strong conservitives" that are working hard to overthrow our Constitutional government
Location: Madison, WI
Lemme guess... East Mifflin St?
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Old January 10th, 2013, 01:16 PM   #12 (permalink)
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two words: civil war
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Old January 10th, 2013, 10:44 PM   #13 (permalink)
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I'm not understanding what kids being injured in the bathtub have to do with more kids being killed on our streets than those killed in the military.

O well!

The point is, kids die from all sorts of things. And if "we" are talking about the absurd idea of tossing away the founding documents, perhaps we should look at a highly regulated bathtub industry that is apparently not doing enough to save the children.
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Old January 10th, 2013, 10:47 PM   #14 (permalink)
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Ah...the Brady Bill has nothing to do with Vice President Biden (it was passed in 1993) and everything to do with Ronald Reagan and his press secretary James Brady. It was a Republican initiative.
Biden helped write the bill, dont you know that? Ref: the Internet and Mr. Google.
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Old January 10th, 2013, 11:37 PM   #15 (permalink)
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The point is, kids die from all sorts of things. And if "we" are talking about the absurd idea of tossing away the founding documents, perhaps we should look at a highly regulated bathtub industry that is apparently not doing enough to save the children.
I wasn't so much against ban all guns, but stating something needs to be done. Why are these types of killings being commited against kids?

I would love to see someone use a bathtub to commit mass murder against kids or anyone else.
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Old January 10th, 2013, 11:40 PM   #16 (permalink)
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The only thing I can see is the ban of assault rifles. In some states.
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Old January 10th, 2013, 11:45 PM   #17 (permalink)
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Ya civil war if they take our guns. Maybe not me maybe not you but shit WILL go down. Don't doubt that
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Old January 11th, 2013, 01:38 AM   #18 (permalink)
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I wasn't so much against ban all guns, but stating something needs to be done. Why are these types of killings being commited against kids?
Thank God! Common sense!

While those who are reacting with the same fear-based ideas that have failed to protect us time and time again are dead wrong, so are the political partisans who serve masters that seek to destroy the very Constitution that they benefit so richly from.

Yes, something needs to be done! Yes, the mass slaughter of helpless children is intolerable! Something must be done, and mindlessly repeating history to no good effect is not a suitable answer. Anything that suits selfish desires and not the problem at hand is no answer.

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I would love to see someone use a bathtub to commit mass murder against kids or anyone else.
Good to see that someone knows the difference between an accident and mass murder...and is willing to say so.
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Old January 11th, 2013, 05:28 AM   #19 (permalink)
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I think everyone is in agreement that something needs to be done......pretty obvious

anyone with more than 2 active brain cells also knows that any type of gun regulation is not the answer..... it has been irrefutably proven time and again that this is not a gun problem

unfortunately the ways to solve the problem will never occur......... and in this argument the guns always lose...... the ACLU trumps the 2nd amendment every time
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Old January 11th, 2013, 07:22 AM   #20 (permalink)
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Same old scare tactics. Any gun regulations whatsoever = they're coming in the dead of night to take our guns away (YAWN)

Let the NRA play you like a puppet while they laugh at all of the gullible suckers and rake in the millions. Wake up, people. No one is going to try to ban guns in America! It is political suicide. Common sense regulations will not be the end of the world.
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Old January 11th, 2013, 07:32 AM   #21 (permalink)
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I wasn't so much against ban all guns, but stating something needs to be done. Why are these types of killings being commited against kids?

I would love to see someone use a bathtub to commit mass murder against kids or anyone else.
I would think five would be considered "mass murder", don't you?

Mother drowns children in bath | Mail Online
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Old January 11th, 2013, 07:48 AM   #22 (permalink)
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And this school shooting Student tells teacher: 'I don't want to shoot you' - Yahoo! News

With a shotgun, stolen from his brother who owned it legitimately. And the guns at Sandy Hook? Stolen from his mother, a legitimate owner. She paid the ultimate price for her carelessness and not getting her son the help he needed, as did the children in this tragedy. If she had lived, she should have been put on trial, not every gun owner in the United States.

Should all duck hunters now be required to register their guns? Should we ban shotguns? Or just some? And what caliber? I know fathers and sons that go hunting together with shotguns all the time. The kids have their own shotguns, 410 or 20 gauge that their fathers, mothers, uncles grandfathers either passed down to them or bought as a present. The responsible elders will take responsibility with the shotguns, but teach gun safety and responsibility to their children until such time as they are ready to take responsibility for themselves.
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Old January 11th, 2013, 08:15 AM   #23 (permalink)
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If 43,000 kids are injured in bathtubs every year and 20,000 are injured by guns every year, that would, logically, make bathtubs more dangerous to children. Just saying.
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Old January 11th, 2013, 08:51 AM   #24 (permalink)
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[QUOTE=rootbrain;*

Should all duck hunters now be required to register their guns? [/QUOTE]

Yes, all guns should be registered, the same as cars, with a registration that goes with the gun when sold. That would not take anybody's right to own a gun away, or infringe on the second amendment in any way.
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Old January 11th, 2013, 09:33 AM   #25 (permalink)
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Yes, all guns should be registered, the same as cars, with a registration that goes with the gun when sold. That would not take anybody's right to own a gun away, or infringe on the second amendment in any way.
Wouldn't prevent what happened yesterday either.
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Old January 11th, 2013, 10:33 AM   #26 (permalink)
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Since the 2nd amendment specifically states "well-regulated militia", regulations on gun ownership is not a violation of that amendment.
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Old January 11th, 2013, 10:44 AM   #27 (permalink)
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Since the 2nd amendment specifically states "well-regulated militia", regulations on gun ownership is not a violation of that amendment.
The Supreme Court disagrees with you.
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Old January 11th, 2013, 10:57 AM   #28 (permalink)
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IN the UK it's illegal to own a handgun. But guess what, the gangs and career criminals have no problem in obtaining them. If you have any legitimate guns, they have to be kept in a locked steel Gun Safe. Oh, and they have to be registered with the police, and you need a firearms certificate for each one.

Legally held guns are not that easy to get, illegal ones are if you know the right people.
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Old January 11th, 2013, 12:35 PM   #29 (permalink)
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Yes, all guns should be registered, the same as cars, with a registration that goes with the gun when sold. That would not take anybody's right to own a gun away, or infringe on the second amendment in any way.
A car is different. Driving a car is NOT a right guaranteed by our Constitution, it is a privilege. Owning arms is a Constitutional right, just like free speech, freedom of the press, the right to a fair and speedy trial.

You don't like guns? Which of the other rights above do you want to have taken away?
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Old January 11th, 2013, 12:43 PM   #30 (permalink)
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IN the UK it's illegal to own a handgun. But guess what, the gangs and career criminals have no problem in obtaining them. If you have any legitimate guns, they have to be kept in a locked steel Gun Safe. Oh, and they have to be registered with the police, and you need a firearms certificate for each one.

Legally held guns are not that easy to get, illegal ones are if you know the right people.
That's a point that's brought up over and over. It doesn't matter to those that would take away our rights. They are in a position to afford to have private protection, or in a position to become and "exception" or special case because of fame, fortune or political clout.

They are blinded by their own zeal. This is really more about power than guns. Never doubt it.
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Old January 11th, 2013, 01:44 PM   #31 (permalink)
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And this school shooting Student tells teacher: 'I don't want to shoot you' - Yahoo! News

With a shotgun, stolen from his brother who owned it legitimately. And the guns at Sandy Hook? Stolen from his mother, a legitimate owner. She paid the ultimate price for her carelessness and not getting her son the help he needed, as did the children in this tragedy.
Interesting that both recent cases(and if I remember correctly the cinema shooting) guns were originally purchased legally.....I rarely hear of advocates to guns showing examples of mass murder to the general public(criminals in gang war fare don't count here) in schools or malls etc, using illegally purchased guns.

Even the more recent occurrences of mass shootings here in the UK were done with legally purchased guns!

I personally believe that the problem stems from a deeper problem in a mental state of mind. For some reason there are a group of people who want to commit suicide, but do so while taking the lives of others, this is the real problem...... unfortunately I don't have the answer.

With tighter gun laws though, these people may be less likely to get hold of weapons that can kill many in short period of time with the pull of a trigger(bombs being an exception which takes a bit more workso can't be done on an impulse!)
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Old January 11th, 2013, 02:10 PM   #32 (permalink)
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The Supreme Court disagrees with you.
The founding fathers had no objection to it. They required firearms to be inspected and kept in good condition, with an adequate supply of ammunition as a public militia was our original national defense. At one time it was required for a man upon a certain age to own a firearm due to this. Which was in my opinion the original intent of the 2nd amendment.

And now the NRA wants more firearms put into people's homes, cars and schools. Yes, make them more readily available for crazy people to acquire whether legally or not. It is an insane proposition.
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Old January 11th, 2013, 02:13 PM   #33 (permalink)
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The founding fathers had no objection to it. They required firearms to be inspected and kept in good condition, with an adequate supply of ammunition as a public militia was our original national defense. At one time it was required for a man upon a certain age to own a firearm due to this. Which was in my opinion the original intent of the 2nd amendment.
Once again, the Supreme Court has heard this argument and disagrees with you. Good luck getting that reversed. This argument has been made at the highest levels more than once and the Supreme Court has consistently rejected it.
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Old January 11th, 2013, 03:27 PM   #34 (permalink)
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A car is different. Driving a car is NOT a right guaranteed by our Constitution, it is a privilege. Owning arms is a Constitutional right, just like free speech, freedom of the press, the right to a fair and speedy trial.

You don't like guns? Which of the other rights above do you want to have taken away?
There you go again. Nobody is taking about banning guns. The second amendment doesn't say anything about the right to bear arms WITH NO REGULATIONS. You people fall for the scare tactics every single time. It's comical, really. We had the assault rifle ban before and the Supreme Court did nothing to stop it. 62% of Americans are in favor of the assault rifle ban now. The NRA is holding the country hostage by brainwashing the weak minded.
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Old January 11th, 2013, 04:30 PM   #35 (permalink)
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so once we get the almighty answer youre pushing for....... and they regulate to whatever extent you believe they will.... and assault weapons are banned again...... should we blame you for the next assault weapon murder? (and dont doubt there will be one with or without a ban).... or who do we blame? since the liberals tell us not to fall for scare tactics and they have the solution
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Old January 11th, 2013, 04:31 PM   #36 (permalink)
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IN the UK it's illegal to own a handgun. But guess what, the gangs and career criminals have no problem in obtaining them. If you have any legitimate guns, they have to be kept in a locked steel Gun Safe. Oh, and they have to be registered with the police, and you need a firearms certificate for each one.

Legally held guns are not that easy to get, illegal ones are if you know the right people.
Yes, but ordinary or accidental criminals do not have access to guns, knives at best. Of course, we still have assassins and the like. But there is not the fear that the angry man next to you could pull a gun.
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Old January 11th, 2013, 04:35 PM   #37 (permalink)
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Yes, but ordinary or accidental criminals do not have access to guns, knives at best. Of course, we still have assassins and the like. But there is not the fear that the angry man next to you could pull a gun.
criminals typically dont legally have access to guns in the US either
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Old January 11th, 2013, 05:35 PM   #38 (permalink)
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62% of Americans are in favor of the assault rifle ban now.
Thatís always bothered me... what is an assault weapon?

Better put, what is not an assault weapon?

Arenít they all designed to kill? And given that, doesnít that make them all assault weapons?
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Old January 11th, 2013, 06:00 PM   #39 (permalink)
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Why Not A Ban On Weapons Designed Specifically For Killing?

This Would Mean Hunting Knives And AllGuns! Covers Assault Weapons!

remember I Stay In The Country Where We Deal With Airport Bombers In Cars By Punching Them :-P
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Old January 11th, 2013, 07:58 PM   #40 (permalink)
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Better put, what is not an assault weapon?
I found one!

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Old January 11th, 2013, 09:07 PM   #41 (permalink)
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All this malarkey about gun regulations has cleaned out the our local gun stores inventory. The price of an assault rifle has risen faster in the last few months, than gold over the last 2 years.
If a nut job can't get a gun for their killing spree they can get a knife, chemicals, vehicle, and yes bathtubs....just saying.... and there's not a damn thing a politician can do to stop it. This is divide and conquer politics. Both side use fear to brainwash those who subscribe to their notion. Those 30,50,100 round magazines that were in the gun shop are now in the homes and vehicles of private citizens who bought as many as they could afford. They bought out of fear. And that scares the sh!t out of the libs that don't want you to have those items.
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Old January 11th, 2013, 09:16 PM   #42 (permalink)
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there's not a damn thing a politician can do to stop it.
Yes, but thereís a helluva lot they can do to make their voters think theyíre doing something about it... thatís what weíre seeing right now.
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Old January 12th, 2013, 02:41 AM   #43 (permalink)
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anyone with more than 2 active brain cells also knows that any type of gun regulation is not the answer..... it has been irrefutably proven time and again that this is not a gun problem
IME all problems that are addressed by making inanimate objects the scapegoat continue to be problems, and often get worse after laws that criminalize the inanimate objects are enacted. The "war on drugs" and the "war on terror" ("terror" isn't even an object, only an undefined concept) are two prominent examples of such failures in recent history.

Until our society chooses to look at the real problem, the one that exists in people's minds, no positive change will be seen. It's sad to say, but IMO we're a society of cowards who are more interested in sweeping the root of the problem under the carpet, and keep on ignoring the larger issues.

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unfortunately the ways to solve the problem will never occur......... and in this argument the guns always lose...... the ACLU trumps the 2nd amendment every time
Never say never.

To be fair, the NRA is far more involved, and has had far more success than the ACLU with this matter.

This time none of the parties that are large enough to get on TV are doing much more than repeating ridiculous talking points.

Being the aggrieved parent of a murdered child does not magically make that person an expert on firearms safety. In one particularly frustrating to watch TV interview, the parents of a slain child made a great point of describing how meticulous and cunning that the killer was. After they made this point in great detail, they immediately went on to claim that outlawing one certain accessory would have totally confounded the shooter to the point that he would have given up and not committed the crime. Really?

I blame the TV producers for putting those parents in that position in the first place. Even if the parents wanted to propose "solutions", the producers' job is to recognize why that's not fair to anyone.

I've read the Second Amendment, and don't see how it can be referring to anything other than a right to possess weapons of war, for the purpose of waging war against a corrupt government or outside invaders. It says nothing about hunting or home protection. Although the specter of war should scare people, the fact remains that the freedoms that we Americans enjoy came only after we resorted to warfare. Like it or not, being prepared to spill blood to protect our liberty may be necessary from time to time. And none of that has anything to do with people who go on shooting rampages.

Sooner or later, we'll need to face the fact that hunting and home defense by firearms aren't Constitutionally protected rights. If we as a society don't like that, we are free to amend the Constitution to reflect our 21st century desires. But unless and until that is done, we need to comply with the highest law in the land as it stands.
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Old January 12th, 2013, 02:56 AM   #44 (permalink)
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Yes, all guns should be registered, the same as cars, with a registration that goes with the gun when sold. That would not take anybody's right to own a gun away, or infringe on the second amendment in any way.
While this makes sense from a purely civil point of view, the problem is that the Second Amendment doesn't appear to be addressing peacetime issues.

"A well regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed."

If we look at the Second Amendment in what I believe is its proper context, registration of arms has grave military consequences because it gives an enemy too much information about the strength of our forces. I don't know the best way to reconcile our peacetime ownership of firearms with the letter and intent of the Second Amendment. And until I do, I would not be hasty in enacting laws that might do great harm in the long run, as well as being of dubious usefulness as a cure to what ails us today.

Rather than focus on firearms singularly, maybe we should be contemplating our responsibilities as "our brothers' keepers."
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Old January 12th, 2013, 03:03 AM   #45 (permalink)
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The Supreme Court disagrees with you.
Ironically this Supreme Court may well be one of "all enemies, foreign or domestic" that the Second Amendment empowers us to take up arms to fight.

I truly hope that we can resolve the Constitutional crisis of Supreme Court members who abuse their office to practice partisan politics. But the fact remains that we now have a very big problem in that, and our Constitution simply doesn't address it.
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Old January 12th, 2013, 03:09 AM   #46 (permalink)
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With tighter gun laws though, these people may be less likely to get hold of weapons that can kill many in short period of time with the pull of a trigger
This is a good time to remind all that in the US there is a mandatory 5 day "cooling off period" between the time of purchase and when the purchaser can obtain the new firearm. This has been the law for over 20 years.
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Old January 12th, 2013, 06:47 AM   #47 (permalink)
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I have one solution to this problem. Lets charge $100 per bullet! Problem solved, partially!
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Old January 12th, 2013, 07:12 AM   #48 (permalink)
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This is a good time to remind all that in the US there is a mandatory 5 day "cooling off period" between the time of purchase and when the purchaser can obtain the new firearm. This has been the law for over 20 years.
Not at one of the many, many, "gun shows" constantly roaming across the country, nor Craigslist, etc.
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Old January 12th, 2013, 08:37 AM   #49 (permalink)
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I have one solution to this problem. Lets charge $100 per bullet! Problem solved, partially!
In the not too distant past, soldiers used to make their own bullets, right in the middle of a war. The technology is relatively simple, and there's plenty of reloading equipment in private hands that could be used as templates to make more if they were banned. A $100/bullet law could never be enforced.

The bottom line is that banning things that some people are determined to do just plain doesn't achieve the desired effect, and instead sows the seeds of discontent. In other words, bans just backfire. They're worse than worthless.
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Old January 12th, 2013, 08:50 AM   #50 (permalink)
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I've read the Second Amendment, and don't see how it can be referring to anything other than a right to possess weapons of war, for the purpose of waging war against a corrupt government or outside invaders. It says nothing about hunting or home protection. Although the specter of war should scare people, the fact remains that the freedoms that we Americans enjoy came only after we resorted to warfare. Like it or not, being prepared to spill blood to protect our liberty may be necessary from time to time. And none of that has anything to do with people who go on shooting rampages.

Sooner or later, we'll need to face the fact that hunting and home defense by firearms aren't Constitutionally protected rights. If we as a society don't like that, we are free to amend the Constitution to reflect our 21st century desires. But unless and until that is done, we need to comply with the highest law in the land as it stands.
The problem with that is that the Supreme Court flat out disagrees with you. The finest legal minds in the country have made their arguments before the finest legal minds in the country and have concluded that the Second Amendment does in fact protect the rights of private citizens to own guns.
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