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Old January 19th, 2013, 01:00 PM   #1 (permalink)
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Default a deviation from guns.... poverty!

BBC News - Oxfam seeks 'new deal' on inequality from world leaders

So It Would Seem If The 100 Richest People Have Away Just 25% Of Their Wealth Each, It Would End Poverty..... Or Have I Miss Read?

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Old January 19th, 2013, 04:17 PM   #2 (permalink)
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Yikes!!! That kind of talk scares me! Don't get me wrong..I am all for moving towards a more humanitarian civilization...but select taxation is just a big ball of mess and frankly disturbing to me.

Why don't we just force everyone to go vegetarian? If we did it would end world hunger.
(true)btw...

Sadly, I don't think there is an easy fix to end world poverty . At least not for now. Maybe..hopefully one day we will evolve
into a higher level of human being with a civilization that works together for a common good.
but we are so far from that...and until we tackle war violence rape oppression racism etc..etc..I can't see us moving forward
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Old January 19th, 2013, 05:11 PM   #3 (permalink)
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Yikes!!! That kind of talk scares me! Don't get me wrong..I am all for moving towards a more humanitarian civilization...but select taxation is just a big ball of mess and frankly disturbing to me.
I don't know, income transfers are common across the world, the are necessary in developed capitalist economies.

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Why don't we just force everyone to go vegetarian? If we did it would end world hunger.
(true)btw...
World hunger is more of an issue of regional underproductivity, and below subsistence farming. We are producing enough food for at least another 3 billion people. Reducing meat consumption will become more necessary though as socioenvironmental issues continue to fail to be adressed.
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Old January 19th, 2013, 06:46 PM   #4 (permalink)
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hmmmm. I beg to differ
BECAUSE IT'S THE ONLY WAY TO END WORLD HUNGER

There is more than enough food in the world to feed the entire human population. So why are more than a billion people still going hungry? Our meat-based diet is largely to blame. We funnel huge amounts of grain, soybeans, and corn through all the animals we use for food instead of feeding starving humans. If we stopped intensively breeding farmed animals and grew crops to feed humans instead, we could easily feed everyone on the planet with healthy and affordable vegetarian foods.



Raising animals for food is extremely inefficient. For every pound of food that farmed animals are fed, only a fraction of the calories are returned in the form of edible flesh. The rest of those calories are burned away raising the animal to slaughter weight or contributing to feathers, bone, skin, blood, and other parts of the animal that are not eaten by humans. This is why animals raised for food have to eat as many as 13 pounds of grain to create just 1 pound of edible flesh. The prestigious Worldwatch Institute states, "[M]eat consumption is an inefficient use of grain—the grain is used more efficiently when consumed directly by humans. Continued growth in meat output is dependent on feeding grain to animals, creating competition for grain between affluent meat-eaters and the world's poor."

As a meat-based diet spreads to developing countries, farmers who are trying to feed themselves are being driven off their land. Their efficient, plant-based agricultural model is being replaced with intensive livestock rearing, which also pollutes the air and water and renders the once-fertile land dead and barren. If this trend continues, the developing world will never be able to produce enough food to feed itself, and hunger will continue to plague hundreds of millions of people around the globe. Author George Monbiot, writing in the U.K.'s The Guardian, explains that there's only one solution: "It now seems plain that [a vegan diet] is the only ethical response to what is arguably the world's most urgent social justice issue."
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Old January 19th, 2013, 07:10 PM   #5 (permalink)
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I don't know, income transfers are common across the world, the are necessary in developed capitalist economies.


World hunger is more of an issue of regional underproductivity, and below subsistence farming. We are producing enough food for at least another 3 billion people. Reducing meat consumption will become more necessary though as socioenvironmental issues continue to fail to be adressed.

I have a real hard time with the phrase "income transfer" too..
that is just a rainbow unicorn way of saying ....forcing
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Old January 19th, 2013, 09:28 PM   #6 (permalink)
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Not even going to touch the vegetarian thing.

The poverty question is not an easy one to answer. A great man once said, "the poor you have always with you." That was 2,000 years ago. Nothing has changed in that regard since and it has been that way since the dawn of time. It's not as simple as just taking money from those who have and giving to those who don't. Set aside the humungous moral implications of that and it's still doesn't solve the problem. There are still social factors, education, etc.... that play into the problem. And beyond that being wealthy and even just having enough to get by is largely behavioral as well. So you could give them that money but whether they'd be able to hold on to it is another question altogether.
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Old January 20th, 2013, 07:39 PM   #7 (permalink)
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so.. I just wanted to say I am not one of those militant veg heads that pushes my own personal moral decisions on others.. In fact I am probably the worst veg on the planet because I am not a healthy fruit veg eater..I basically live on potato chips ...and...beer.. but hey it's bread in a bottle right? I'm kind of a light weight.. I get all silly on 2..(good beer) sigh....last night I ate a whopper Jr w cheese minus meat and loaded it with onion rings and fries between the bun instead.... surprisingly, I am apparently not the only one who orders standard fast food items minus the meat...they are used to it I can tell because nobody flinches when I do..anyhow
. I still cook meat for others.. because .I like to cook..and people like to eat..although sometimes it does make me kind of sickened..at the thought but I try to push it out of my head...
anywho, I'm babbling... but I wanted to say That was kind of my point in saying we should force everyone to become v to end world hunger....I was trying to point out that it is just as
unfeasible..

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Old January 21st, 2013, 10:57 AM   #8 (permalink)
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@huh... I'm just curious... are you a veg for mainly health or moral reasons?
BTW, I agree with your assessment of the rainbow unicorn version of socialism
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Old January 21st, 2013, 11:11 AM   #9 (permalink)
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hmmmm. I beg to differ
BECAUSE IT'S THE ONLY WAY TO END WORLD HUNGER

There is more than enough food in the world to feed the entire human population. So why are more than a billion people still going hungry? Our meat-based diet is largely to blame. We funnel huge amounts of grain, soybeans, and corn through all the animals we use for food instead of feeding starving humans. If we stopped intensively breeding farmed animals and grew crops to feed humans instead, we could easily feed everyone on the planet with healthy and affordable vegetarian foods.
Perhaps you need to look at the government(s). In many places, the government is tyrannical and could care less about the people. You said it yourself: "There is more than enough food in the world to feed the entire human population." So there you go. Leave the top sirloins and baby back ribs alone.

You cannot blame animal production for this. We do quote well bringing great meats to the dinner table and we know how to effectively raise food on the hoof.
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Old January 21st, 2013, 12:57 PM   #10 (permalink)
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@huh... I'm just curious... are you a veg for mainly health or moral reasons?
BTW, I agree with your assessment of the rainbow unicorn version of socialism
Just my own personal moral reasons.. I'm probably less healthy now than when I did eat meat. But I just can't bring myself to eat it anymore.I was never a big eater anyway and didnt ever really have to worry about it because I am lucky to have an athletic body type.and high metabolism without having to work at it much...but now....
ugh... I kind of have to struggle NOT to loose muscle tone by drinking Protein shakes(Yuck)

hmmm

I think I think too much...
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Old January 21st, 2013, 01:00 PM   #11 (permalink)
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Just my own personal moral reasons.. I'm probably less healthy now than when I did eat meat. But I just can't bring myself to eat it anymore.I was never a big eater anyway and didnt ever really have to worry about it because I am lucky to have an athletic body type.and high metabolism without having to work at it much...but now....
ugh... I kind of have to struggle NOT to loose muscle tone by drinking Protein shakes(Yuck)

hmmm

I think I think too much...
Poor baby! Oh how I wish I had your problem... I gain weight from watching other people eat!
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Old January 21st, 2013, 01:06 PM   #12 (permalink)
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The USA is pretty wasteful when it comes to food. I'm sure alot that's thrown away or left to rot could be used for those with less.

How the U.S. manages to waste $165 billion in food each year
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Old January 21st, 2013, 01:31 PM   #13 (permalink)
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Yeah, the US wastes tons of food every year. A lot of that is by restaurants who can't give their left overs away for fear of liability issues.
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Old January 21st, 2013, 04:33 PM   #14 (permalink)
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BBC News - Oxfam seeks 'new deal' on inequality from world leaders

So It Would Seem If The 100 Richest People Have Away Just 25% Of Their Wealth Each, It Would End Poverty..... Or Have I Miss Read?
Not sure if I believe it. Bezos is worth 18 billion and Gates is worth 61 billion, but that is not ready cash. It is stocks, bonds, property and the like. The article omits the corruption visited upon many of these dirt poor peoples.

Perhaps we need less taking from the rich and more getting rid of despots.

I do not owe the world a living and if I were to give $5000.00 to the poor in some third world dump, it would find its way into the pockets of rulers that need to be dispatched.

We (America) already do a hell of a lot for the world even though we know the money does not buy Wonder Bread; it purchases Wondrous Castles for rulers that are horrible.
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Old January 21st, 2013, 04:35 PM   #15 (permalink)
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Yeah, the US wastes tons of food every year. A lot of that is by restaurants who can't give their left overs away for fear of liability issues.
LOL . . . I know a chief that wanted to give the left overs away. He was prevented by various laws and corporate rules. I can see it. As soon as you help the poor get a good case of food poisoning, he finds a lawyer who sues. NO GOOD DEED GOES UNPUNISHED!
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Old January 21st, 2013, 04:39 PM   #16 (permalink)
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Just my own personal moral reasons.. I'm probably less healthy now than when I did eat meat.
Forgive me, but if you say your diet makes you unhealthy, then why visit your problems on the rest of the world? Meat will not kill you. Period.

Excessive meat consumption may or may not be healthy. For many decades, we had the Food Pyramid. This was a guide to healthy eating. It included milk, grains, fruit, meat and fish.

Moderation is the key, not omitting certain foods. We are animals, basically, and eating meat is what we the animals have always done.
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Old January 21st, 2013, 11:23 PM   #17 (permalink)
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LOL . . . I know a chief that wanted to give the left overs away. He was prevented by various laws and corporate rules. I can see it. As soon as you help the poor get a good case of food poisoning, he finds a lawyer who sues. NO GOOD DEED GOES UNPUNISHED!
So when we eat at restaurants, we may be paying for food poisoning? Interesting!
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Old January 22nd, 2013, 02:26 AM   #18 (permalink)
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so.. I just wanted to say I am not one of those militant veg heads that pushes my own personal moral decisions on others.. In fact I am probably the worst veg on the planet because I am not a healthy fruit veg eater..I basically live on potato chips ...and...beer.. but hey it's bread in a bottle right? I'm kind of a light weight.. I get all silly on 2..(good beer) sigh....last night I ate a whopper Jr w cheese minus meat and loaded it with onion rings and fries between the bun instead.... surprisingly, I am apparently not the only one who orders standard fast food items minus the meat...they are used to it I can tell because nobody flinches when I do..anyhow
. I still cook meat for others.. because .I like to cook..and people like to eat..although sometimes it does make me kind of sickened..at the thought but I try to push it out of my head...
anywho, I'm babbling... but I wanted to say That was kind of my point in saying we should force everyone to become v to end world hunger....I was trying to point out that it is just as
unfeasible..

Potato chips and beer... the breakfast of champions!
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Old January 22nd, 2013, 09:58 AM   #19 (permalink)
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Forgive me, but if you say your diet makes you unhealthy, then why visit your problems on the rest of the world? Meat will not kill you. Period.

Excessive meat consumption may or may not be healthy. For many decades, we had the Food Pyramid. This was a guide to healthy eating. It included milk, grains, fruit, meat and fish.

Moderation is the key, not omitting certain foods. We are animals, basically, and eating meat is what we the animals have always done.
My diet has pretty much always been unhealthy..I am and always have been a picky eater..I was being truthful when I said I basically live on potato chips and beer..forgot chocolate though..so Potato chips beer taco bell pizza and chocolate milk are my staples. Surprisingly I'm pretty healthy..or at least i Look healthy so ASSumption is that I am healthy.. and people DO judge books by their covers. but that's another subject...seriously though I have noticed that not eating meat has made me loose some muscle strenghth..I'm probably the only one who can tell..but I can..no wait..my Doc said he could tell too..but he is my friend and a smarty pants like me and was harassing me for fun...but did say I needed to stay on top of that...because it could be a problem down the road.... anyway so now I drink protein suppliments...
anyway I was being sarcastic when I said everyone should go veg..It is my own personal choice to not eat meat and it is because if I think about it...(and I DO think too much)the thought of slaughtering and eating another living being makes me ill.
by all means..meat on!.. all you like though..It's not for me to judge...
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Old January 22nd, 2013, 10:12 AM   #20 (permalink)
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My diet has pretty much always been unhealthy..I am and always have been a picky eater..I was being truthful when I said I basically live on potato chips and beer..forgot chocolate though..so Potato chips beer taco bell pizza and chocolate milk are my staples. Surprisingly I'm pretty healthy..or at least i Look healthy so ASSumption is that I am healthy.. and people DO judge books by their covers. but that's another subject...seriously though I have noticed that not eating meat has made me loose some muscle strenghth..I'm probably the only one who can tell..but I can..no wait..my Doc said he could tell too..but he is my friend and a smarty pants like me and was harassing me for fun...but did say I needed to stay on top of that...because it could be a problem down the road.... anyway so now I drink protein suppliments...
anyway I was being sarcastic when I said everyone should go veg..It is my own personal choice to not eat meat and it is because if I think about it...(and I DO think too much)the thought of slaughtering and eating another living being makes me ill.
by all means..meat on!.. all you like though..It's not for me to judge...
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Honestly, I would slaughter and eat my neighbors if they looked tasty enough.
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Old January 22nd, 2013, 10:20 AM   #21 (permalink)
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hahaha! nice!

I won't kill animals but I'd take a human out in 2 sec flat and not even bat an eye if they messed.....
it's true!
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Old January 22nd, 2013, 11:34 AM   #22 (permalink)
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So when we eat at restaurants, we may be paying for food poisoning? Interesting!
In a way, probably. Part of the cost of doing business is the insurance which I assume is there to protect the restaurant.

We do not pay for food poisoning; we occasionally get that as a free bonus. I visited a place that just could not get it through their head that undercooked chicken was not a good idea. Perfect way to get poisoned.

Some places no longer offer real Cesar Salads or rare steaks. Those that do, warn us patrons of the hazards of undercooked/raw food.
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Old January 22nd, 2013, 03:39 PM   #23 (permalink)
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In a way, probably. Part of the cost of doing business is the insurance which I assume is there to protect the restaurant.

We do not pay for food poisoning; we occasionally get that as a free bonus. I visited a place that just could not get it through their head that undercooked chicken was not a good idea. Perfect way to get poisoned.

Some places no longer offer real Cesar Salads or rare steaks. Those that do, warn us patrons of the hazards of undercooked/raw food.
Seriously....that is bad! Litigation has gone to far, it has caused the health and safety over kill and I believe it has escalated in America! It never used to be a problem for food waste to be given away but now, because of fear of litigation, supermarkets cannot give away items out of date! Part of the reason I like to go to our local shop for daily items(have actually been given some veg free as it would otherwise have been getting thrown out, all I had to do was cut around the bit that had started going off!) and only do occasional big shops at the supermarkets...get most neat products from local farm shop which is cheaper than supermarkets anyway!

Obviously giving away money ain't going to solve the issues immediately, especially with corruption in many countries(developed as well!) However I would say it's wrong to say you don't owe the world a living....we all do, part of the issue is selfishness.....help one another without wanting something in return, not to fear others...but that's going back to gun discussion :-P

Clearly, no one has"the" answer, but done countries are suffering because of us in the developed world causing pollution which is creating droughts and other adverse weather conditions...some countries grow specific items which rather than feed the people, governments sell for the use of biofuels!
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Old January 22nd, 2013, 03:57 PM   #24 (permalink)
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There's a gas station in town that sells Krispy Kreme donuts. Every night at like 2-3 am they would throw out the day old donuts and get a delivery of new ones. When I worked 3rd shift we sent someone down there (an attractive young lady) to see if she could sweet talk the guys down there into letting us have the day old donuts rather than tossing them all the trash. We were told that regulations did not allow them to give us food that they had deemed as trash. These were donuts that were just a day old and they would rather throw them away.
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Old January 22nd, 2013, 04:35 PM   #25 (permalink)
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That is just ridiculous! Throwing away perfectly good donuts should be a crime punishable by death!ll
Actually, we have a pretty large local charity where I live. It's called Forgotten Harvest and they DO go to super markets restaurants retirement villages hospitals etc...and pick up perishable items and distribute it through emergency food relief programs. There are thousands of volunteers and partners who participate in this great program. I personally know many people who have volunteered time resources and money to this great cause. Restaurant owners who not only donate unused food but do charity events where they will donate a percentage of proceeds. And Retirement home executive chef's who will personally drive unused surplus food and drop it off at the Charity. I myself have helped drive some of this food over to the donation center. also by hosting and letting my students volunteer to come in on a saturday in the elementary school cafeteria and help pitch in by repackaging items for disbursement. So it can be done ..and is...being done! I live in the suburbs of a large city so it's not a small scale endeavor..
Also there is a movement now to plant an apple tree in your yard to harvest the apples for the same need..Kind of like good ole Johnny Appleseed!
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Old January 22nd, 2013, 04:43 PM   #26 (permalink)
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There's a gas station in town that sells Krispy Kreme donuts. Every night at like 2-3 am they would throw out the day old donuts and get a delivery of new ones. When I worked 3rd shift we sent someone down there (an attractive young lady) to see if she could sweet talk the guys down there into letting us have the day old donuts rather than tossing them all the trash. We were told that regulations did not allow them to give us food that they had deemed as trash. These were donuts that were just a day old and they would rather throw them away.
that guy was sadly mistaken....... those donuts werent trash after sitting for a day........ if they came from Krispy Kreme they were trash the second they left the grease
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Old January 23rd, 2013, 08:50 AM   #27 (permalink)
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There's a gas station in town that sells Krispy Kreme donuts. Every night at like 2-3 am they would throw out the day old donuts and get a delivery of new ones. When I worked 3rd shift we sent someone down there (an attractive young lady) to see if she could sweet talk the guys down there into letting us have the day old donuts rather than tossing them all the trash. We were told that regulations did not allow them to give us food that they had deemed as trash. These were donuts that were just a day old and they would rather throw them away.
They might feel the same way you do. I often use day old bread for this and that. Should I be concerned about health code violations?

Seems to me that those K-Kremers are not trash until they hit the trash bin. They could donate the donuts, I should think.

Regs are what they are, I suppose. Same general rules apply here in Utah as well. You cant donate certain food items due to health concerns.
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Old January 23rd, 2013, 08:53 AM   #28 (permalink)
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that guy was sadly mistaken....... those donuts werent trash after sitting for a day........ if they came from Krispy Kreme they were trash the second they left the grease
Disagree. Krispy Kremes are heavenly. Horrible for you in so many different ways, but eating free donuts at work every day is going to improve morale.
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Old January 23rd, 2013, 09:03 AM   #29 (permalink)
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A few months ago, our local food pantry notified the news outlets that they had too much food and anyone who wanted free food should stop by and take whatever they needed or wanted.

I think it takes effort to give away food. It must be stored safely and there must be a reliable way to get the food to those that need it. Cafes and eateries toss lots of leftovers, but I am not sure who would want that crap.

Here in Utah, in fact, there is a group that wants leftovers given to the homeless which is foolish because that would represent a health problem.

I say research the laws in your area and if any of you want to help, start by removing the barriers. I am sure many food stores would like to help if possible.
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Old January 23rd, 2013, 09:05 AM   #30 (permalink)
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Disagree. Krispy Kremes are heavenly. Horrible for you in so many different ways, but eating free donuts at work every day is going to improve morale.
The mighty K-Kream is a fairly good donut. Not as good as the old Spudnuts that were once famous here in Utah, but acceptable.

Several donut shops locally offer day old donuts and something they call "Cripples." Those are destined (or were destined) for the dump because they were improperly formed. Those products never see the trash.
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Old January 23rd, 2013, 10:41 AM   #31 (permalink)
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BTW, I agree with your assessment of the rainbow unicorn version of socialism
Have you see the rainbow unicorn version of libertarianism propagated across the internet by naive youth in uni? Tis a fair bit more rainbowy I'd say.
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Old January 23rd, 2013, 09:49 PM   #32 (permalink)
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Rainbow unicorns are real???? I want one! and I will love him and squeeze him and name him George
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Old January 23rd, 2013, 10:47 PM   #33 (permalink)
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The mighty K-Kream is a fairly good donut. Not as good as the old Spudnuts that were once famous here in Utah, but acceptable.

Several donut shops locally offer day old donuts and something they call "Cripples." Those are destined (or were destined) for the dump because they were improperly formed. Those products never see the trash.
wait...spudnuts and cripples???

um....

Im not gonna touch that one with a ten foot pole

wait..haha
um...
k ...
I'm just going to back away now .....real slow like
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Old January 24th, 2013, 08:41 AM   #34 (permalink)
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wait...spudnuts and cripples???

um....

Im not gonna touch that one with a ten foot pole

wait..haha
um...
k ...
I'm just going to back away now .....real slow like

What is the problem? Yes, Spudnuts. Created by Bob and Al Pelton and very successful. A Spudnut would kick a K-Kream's butt. I remember them well. The donut was made with potatoes.

Thespudnutshop.com | History

My mother was in advertising and she worked on the Spudnut account. Along with Orange Julius and the first Ski Utah campaign. Not to mention, promotion for "The Happiest Millionaire" starring Fred MacMurry, but I digress.

As for Cripples, they were deformed and mis-shaped donuts sold by a local shop. Nothing odd there. Very un-PC but no harm done.
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