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Old January 23rd, 2013, 01:17 PM   #1 (permalink)
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Default Next 4 Years Give or Take

Everything Obama wants to do will not work, as history clearly shows. So what do you think the next 4 years will look like?

Eventually, Obama's world will implode. Any guesses as to how much damage he will do? Any thought as to how much better we will be, if you believe Obama is the answer?
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Old January 23rd, 2013, 05:59 PM   #2 (permalink)
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It’s starting today, with Hillary failing to provide a reasonable defense of her part in the investigation of the Benghazi killings, specifically state’s insistence that it was the reaction to a youtube video.
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Old February 5th, 2013, 10:36 PM   #3 (permalink)
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Boggles the mind of someone outside the US how a country of FDR could have become the home of suck conservative extremists. You're becoming the land of every man for himself. Survival of the fittest. Sad to see actually.
In order to have success people have to be willing Nd able to work together as a team and look out for one another. Those ideas are now considered to be communism in America. It's a fundamentalism comparable to the religious extremists in other parts of the world. Truly sad.
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Old February 6th, 2013, 04:23 AM   #4 (permalink)
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In order to have success people have to be willing Nd able to work
if you ended your sentence right there you would have more accurately described the problem
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Old February 6th, 2013, 04:42 AM   #5 (permalink)
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Default Re: Next 4 Years Give or Take

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Boggles the mind of someone outside the US how a country of FDR could have become the home of suck conservative extremists. You're becoming the land of every man for himself. Survival of the fittest. Sad to see actually.
In order to have success people have to be willing Nd able to work together as a team and look out for one another. Those ideas are now considered to be communism in America. It's a fundamentalism comparable to the religious extremists in other parts of the world. Truly sad.
This is the truest statement I have read yet.
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Old February 10th, 2013, 08:13 AM   #6 (permalink)
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Boggles the mind of someone outside the US how a country of FDR could have become the home of suck conservative extremists. You're becoming the land of every man for himself. Survival of the fittest. Sad to see actually.
It is sad to see people dooming themselves to repeat history. What I still can't figure out is how there are so many willing shills who will argue to their dying breath for a system that's going to destroy them too.

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In order to have success people have to be willing Nd able to work together as a team and look out for one another. Those ideas are now considered to be communism in America. It's a fundamentalism comparable to the religious extremists in other parts of the world. Truly sad.
The whole reason why we're the United States of America (and not an asterisk in colonial history) is because the 13 freed colonies knew that they were better off cooperating for the greater good. If they had gone their separate ways, who would have won in 1812?

"Stupid is as stupid does." We might as well make it our national motto...
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Old February 12th, 2013, 02:32 PM   #7 (permalink)
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The last four years, give or take, were brimming with conservative enthusiasm honed on replacing the current president. When that failed, more accurately when the GOP pushed the wrong guy up front, conservatives were thwarted. Now they’re riding in the back of the bus, just waiting for it to careen off a cliff.

Edit: mistaken link removed.
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Old February 12th, 2013, 05:19 PM   #8 (permalink)
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I want to make sure I understand what youre saying here....... dont want to put words in your mouth

youre stating that you believe conservative enthusiasm is on the decline...... and conservatives are quietly awaiting their demise....

and as an example you cite an article which states conservative audiences are actually increasing?

makes sense..... surely conservatism is dead

sounds a whole lot like that 'we have to spend money to save money' argument
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Old February 12th, 2013, 05:43 PM   #9 (permalink)
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Quote:
and as an example you cite an article which states conservative audiences are actually increasing?
My bad, thanks for pointing it out. I wanted to replace that mistake with the intended one, but then I didn’t like it either...
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Old February 17th, 2013, 09:18 PM   #10 (permalink)
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I honestly think there will be a total collapse of government. Obama can't stop spending money at the same time he encourages everyone to give up and become dependent on the government. The borrowed money is going to run out.

Then there is the fact that Obama is actively working to disarm citizens, arm the DHS with enough ammo and guns right now to be at war for 30yrs, and labeling patriotic Americans as extremists and terrorists. He has a kill list that he is the judge, jury, and executioner (ok, he just gives the order) and has used it to even kill US citizens and no one has the authority to challenge it.

America is in an all out downward spiral and Obama is leading the way. The next several years are going to be a very scary time, especially in a few more months when Obama and his cronies really get rolling.
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Old February 17th, 2013, 09:41 PM   #11 (permalink)
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Default Re: Next 4 Years Give or Take

One doesn't not change the world. It is impossible.
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Old February 18th, 2013, 01:33 PM   #12 (permalink)
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I honestly think there will be a total collapse of government.
You think that the Federal government will collapse ŕ la Yugoslavia? The issue with that is the massive well in nationalism in the US, that cannot be identified with any single sub-nation (as they don't exist). Due to the indoctrination of Americans, and the lack of multiple nationalities, I don't think a collapse of the federal government would happen, or be permanent at least.

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America is in an all out downward spiral and Obama is leading the way. The next several years are going to be a very scary time, especially in a few more months when Obama and his cronies really get rolling.
The US is in a relative decline, although it is doing better than Europe at the moment. The US will either have to reform or continue its cycle of decline.
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Old February 19th, 2013, 10:13 AM   #13 (permalink)
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I honestly think there will be a total collapse of government. Obama can't stop spending money at the same time he encourages everyone to give up and become dependent on the government. The borrowed money is going to run out.
You really need to stop listening to right wing radio nuts. They're nuts. They talk mindless nonsense that has zero basis in reality. In fact, exactly the sort of thing you said there. Exactly NONE of that is true or even remotely related to the truth.

We have been trying low tax, trickle down economics, de-regulated markets and all that right wing claptrap for the last 30 years and they have been a total, unmitigated failure. Unless you're one of the top 1% (remember them?). They are 10 times better off than they were a decade ago, everyone else is actually worse off. For the first time since the 30s.

Plus there was that little thing .. Couple of years back .. What was it? You remember? Oh yeah! the right wing deregulation BS coming within a nats scrotum of destroying the entire global economy.

Remember that?

All those rich republican 1%ers had to rescued BY THE POOR. Bankers and Wall Street were saved by the biggest transfer of wealth from the poor to the rich in the whole of human history. Bush gave the banks 1 trillion dollars and didn't even ask for a receipt!

Then what did they do with the cash? Spent it lobbying their politicians to let them keep doing the exact same sh*t that caused that the problem and to stop any bail out for anyone else! While they CONTINUE to get bailouts EACH MONTH.

You know that quantitive easing? The billions of dollars the Fed prints each month? That ALL goes to banks. Every penny.

So basically, if you're a Republican, your buddies on Wall Street must get a stimulus / bail out each month but the rest of the country can suffer.

Obama getting elected was the entire world dodging a bullet.
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Old February 19th, 2013, 11:18 AM   #14 (permalink)
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SiempreTuna, ever heard of Greece? Do a little research and see what happens when the government continually spends more money that it has. And this is a recent example, not something that happend hundreds of years ago.

Redistribution of wealth is no way to run a country. When people work their way up the ladder by working hard they should not be punished for it. Why should such a large portion of income be taken just so that it can be handed to lazy asses who don't want to work for a living? It doesn't work, it never has, and it never will.

After 8 yrs of Obama and his failed policy if the government hasn't completely collapsed and we are worse off than we were in 2008 will you still be blaming Bush???
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Old February 19th, 2013, 03:14 PM   #15 (permalink)
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SiempreTuna, ever heard of Greece? Do a little research and see what happens when the government continually spends more money that it has. And this is a recent example, not something that happend hundreds of years ago.
Greece is an example of what happens when you have a shitty tax base, a massive military, and shitty politicians.
The rest of Europe does not have the scale of problems it has, even in the worst countries, Ireland, Italy, UK, Spain, Portugal, reforms and changes are being made to sort things out. I might not agree with how the reforms are being done. But reforms are necessary. Governments with higher spending (Denmark, Finland, Sweden and NL), have undertaken the reforms before and have a stable tax base.

The US certainly has a spending problem. Money is thrown at everything, except in social benefits. However the military, education, healthcare etc, all simply have funding increased instead of reforms.

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Redistribution of wealth is no way to run a country. When people work their way up the ladder by working hard they should not be punished for it. Why should such a large portion of income be taken just so that it can be handed to lazy asses who don't want to work for a living? It doesn't work, it never has, and it never will.
Redistribution is the only way, as otherwise the poor become restless and overthrow the government. But seriously redistribution is much more economically efficient and better for society. Less crime, improved morale, more productive.

It is important that people are well fed, clothed, and housed. Everyone's children should be able to go to University (or some other form of Third level), if they are bright and ambitious enough. Massive loans shouldn't be necessary.
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Old February 19th, 2013, 06:06 PM   #16 (permalink)
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Greece is an example of what happens when you have a shitty tax base, a massive military, and shitty politicians.
Exactly what we have here in America right now


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Redistribution is the only way, as otherwise the poor become restless and overthrow the government. But seriously redistribution is much more economically efficient and better for society. Less crime, improved morale, more productive.

It is important that people are well fed, clothed, and housed. Everyone's children should be able to go to University (or some other form of Third level), if they are bright and ambitious enough. Massive loans shouldn't be necessary.
Redistribution just demotivates people. There are millions of people perfectly happy living on welfare and letting the government take care of them because they can. They have no reason to try and get a job because they can just get paid to sit at home and do nothing.

The other side of that is the punishment of hard work. The harder you work and the higher you climb you are punished by the government taking a larger percentage of your income. How is that fair?? How does that encourage hard work to achieve "the American Dream"?? How does that make people want to keep their business in America and hire American workers when they can instead move overseas and not only pay workers less, but at the same time not be punished by the government for being successful???

Yes I agree everyone should have the opportunity to attend college without acquiring a massive debt, but that should not be subsidized by our tax money.
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Old February 19th, 2013, 06:45 PM   #17 (permalink)
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For one thing, we're already better off than we were in 2008.

In Greece, a big part of their problem came from the so called austerity measures that were implemented. The same thing the Republicans are trying to force on America now. Talk about not learning lessons.
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Old February 19th, 2013, 06:53 PM   #18 (permalink)
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For one thing, we're already better off than we were in 2008.


The deficit has skyrocketed, unemployment rate is just as high (except millions have quit looking for work so they don't count anymore), everyone that is working just had their taxes raised with more tax hikes already written into law (Obamacare), gas and food prices are higher, millions more people are now in poverty, on food stamps, and on welfare than in 2008. The US credit rating has been downgraded twice since 2008 (NEVER happened before Obama). The country is being divided by Obama and his encouragement of class warfare and pissing on the constitution.

Your right, we are much better off...
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Old February 20th, 2013, 01:46 AM   #19 (permalink)
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Yes I agree everyone should have the opportunity to attend college without acquiring a massive debt, but that should not be subsidized by our tax money.
It does require subsidisation though, so think about that.

If not for redistribution you would probably be dead by now.

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For one thing, we're already better off than we were in 2008.

In Greece, a big part of their problem came from the so called austerity measures that were implemented. The same thing the Republicans are trying to force on America now. Talk about not learning lessons.
Greece's problem has been badly planned austerity more than anything. Other states with decent political systems have managed things much better. That said now is not the time for large scale austerity, although I would argue that reforms, and certain cuts should be started now. Lots and lots of reports are needed to examine everything.
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Old February 20th, 2013, 01:41 PM   #20 (permalink)
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Default Re: Next 4 Years Give or Take

For those that support Socialism and Obama's method of destroying the economy, please disprove these statements. I guarantee you can not.

1. You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity.

2. What one person receives without working for, another person must work for without receiving.

3. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else.

4. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it!

5. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them, and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for, that is the beginning of the end of any nation.
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Old February 20th, 2013, 03:11 PM   #21 (permalink)
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For those that support Socialism
The US has never been anywhere near socialist, even during WWII. You do not know, or understand, what socialism is. Socialism is when the government owns the steel mills and the car industry.

Socialism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The Wikipedia article is fairly good. Put a few minutes of your time to good use and examine it.

Now, you think I am socialist. Because you fail to grasp what socialism really is. I think that Capitalism is the least worst system, but must be adequately regulated and managed according to evidence and the needs of society. One must note that socialist societies often fail to give the poor the same living standards as far-capitalist ones such as the US, because they are not as productive. Yet societies with capitalism that is more managed than the US, provide better living standards with less.

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Obama's method of destroying the economy
Destroying the economy sounds like an odd plan. I don't agree with Obama's plan, there is not enough tax rises, or enough targeted cuts. Is this his fault? Perhaps he could work harder, I don't know. Federal politics in the US is shit, and that is due to a broken system. I can't attribute the bulk of the blame to a single man, for not taking bullish enough action.

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1. You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity.
I agree, as you can see by my point on the USSR.

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2. What one person receives without working for, another person must work for without receiving.
I would argue that everyone receives something in a place with functioning government. It may not be monetary, it may not even be services like healthcare or education for their children. But they will have received in the past. Furthermore, they get safety, peace of mind, the ability to try and achieve what they can. The ability to live their lives to the fullest.

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3. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else.
This is logical, but stopping this from happening means no more government, and death for most people and shitty lives for the rest.

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4. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it!
You can divide it by 0.5.

Checkmate theists etc.

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5. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them, and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for, that is the beginning of the end of any nation.
That doesn't really happen though. Lack of a functioning society might cause that. Most European nations are more solid than 100 years ago these days, I think our nations are doing fine, even though the nation-state is sliding into irrelevance.
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Old February 21st, 2013, 06:31 AM   #22 (permalink)
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For those that support Socialism and Obama's method of destroying the economy, please disprove these statements. I guarantee you can not.
Err .. they're the same platitude expressed in 5 very slightly different ways. And I guarantee I can:

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1. You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity
Nobody's legislating anybody out of prosperity. The gap between rich and poor is ten times greater than it was even under Reagan. The problem now is that the rich are TOO rich.

Why is that a problem? Because a RECESSION is when spending in the economy is too low. The rich don't - possibly, can't: what do you spend that extra mill on? - spend the extra income they now receive. It ends up in accounts in Bermuda, not benefitting the economy. If you pass that money to the poor, they have to spend it, thereby getting the economy moving.

It's basic economics.


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2. What one person receives without working for, another person must work for without receiving.
US unemployment is around is around 7%, so actually 11 people are working to help the other person. And when the unemployment person spends the money, it indirectly helps those 11 people by stimulating the economy - and keeping them in jobs.

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3. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else.
Yes they can. They're doing it now. It's called Quantitive Easing. The only problem with it is all the money is going to banks - i.e. rich people.


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4. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it!
Yes you can: see the answer to 1. Getting the economy moving means you create more wealth not less. The alternative is giving a bigger and bigger cut of less and less to fewer people (that means LESS wealth, in case you're missing the point there)

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5. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them, and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for, that is the beginning of the end of any nation.
Again, unemployment is 7%. Half would be 50%. You're nowhere near the beginning of the end of anything.

I know it's real easy and real tempting to demonise people when things aren't going well, but while it may make you feel better, all it does it take attention away from the real problem.

Sure, there are people who take advantage, but the majority of people who are out of work are not there by choice. Making their lives even more miserable and their chances of finding work even lower (by NOT stimulating the economy as you advocate) doesn't help anyone.

Not even you.
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Old February 21st, 2013, 11:17 AM   #23 (permalink)
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Again, unemployment is 7%. Half would be 50%. You're nowhere near the beginning of the end of anything.
You do realize the "unemployment rate" only takes into account those recently unemployed and still looking for work right? It does not include welfare recipients, homeless, incarcerated, etc. it also does not include those working part time, even 1 hour a week, and still receiving support from the government because they can't or wont find a job to support themselves. Nor does it include all the illegal aliens receiving benefits (housing, welfare, food stamps, free education) because they can't even legally look for work.

The unemployment rate is a joke if you are looking for any actual figures in this type of economy. When the economy is good then it works fine because it doesn't take 6+ months to find a decent job.
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Old February 21st, 2013, 12:02 PM   #24 (permalink)
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Nobody's legislating anybody out of prosperity. The gap between rich and poor is ten times greater than it was even under Reagan. The problem now is that the rich are TOO rich.
So you think there should be limits set on how much you can make or how far you can go in life? Never mind, of course you do.

Bear in mind that the top fifty or so percent pay for the bottom half that pay zero federal income taxes. Tell people we will limit how much you can make and progress slows. Also, there is less tax revenue to support the poor that in many cases, have a free ride.

There are more millionaires, multi-millionaires and billionaires than ever before. This is a good thing. I think the reason many people can't find good jobs is because employers demand more and many employees are simply not worth the money they want. Hell, I help put people off the payroll by changing how a company manufacturers goods.

Companies simply expect more and some people cannot rise to the occasion. They often lack essential skills.

To return to your statement . . . no, we let people make as much as they want and when we stop punishing the rich for a bunch of BS reasons, we let them prosper. Prosperity flows downhill.
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Old February 21st, 2013, 12:10 PM   #25 (permalink)
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For those that support Socialism and Obama's method of destroying the economy, please disprove these statements. I guarantee you can not.

1. You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity.

2. What one person receives without working for, another person must work for without receiving.

3. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else.

4. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it!

5. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them, and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for, that is the beginning of the end of any nation.
Not sure I disagree with anything you posted. Sad fact is, the rich care for the poor that largely do not contribute to the wealth of the nation. As I have said and said and said again, the top 50% or more pay for the bottom half that pay no fed tax.

When you take away the possibility of getting rich, people tend to stop wanting to invest time and money into a business that could help employ people.

That said, it is a dirty little secret nobody will admit that workers are a necessarily evil. We need them to build widgets. We do not start businesses to provide jobs; we start businesses to build a better life for ourselves and our families.
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Old February 21st, 2013, 12:18 PM   #26 (permalink)
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The deficit has skyrocketed, unemployment rate is just as high (except millions have quit looking for work so they don't count anymore),
Interesting that our president was wildly applauded when he told us that due to his efforts, unemployment claims have declined. What he avoided saying is this was largely due to benefits running out.

Sure, there is a decline if there is no cash left over.

What I find interesting is here in SLC, your food stamp benefits are now automatically added to your card and you no longer need to call the Department of Workforce Services to renew your claim or go through a one on one interview as was once the case.

So if you are careful, you now have a never ending source of food as close as your EBT card and unless you call DWS, it might never end.
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Old February 21st, 2013, 04:14 PM   #27 (permalink)
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Your arguments are automatically suspect when you reveal your true intentions. In a way you contradict yourself. This is the whole greedy, every man for himself republican mindset. Workers are a necessary evil in your attempts to benefit yourselves. Republicans wish they didn't have to pay anyone a dime, and if they could get away with not doing so, they would. Your trickle down economics does NOT work, as have been proven by history time and again. But the truth is republicans don't care about helping others. The more workers they can eliminate from their payroll the better. This is why outsourcing is so popular amongst them. You say the economy is so terrible in one sentence, then say there are more millionaires and billionaires than ever in the next and preach what a good thing that is. Sure it's great, FOR THEM AND THEM ONLY. How is rich people getting richer helping the economy? Oh that's right, its not. Because the economy is on the brink of collapse, according to you.

I think we're doing much better than we were under Bush, and I could state dozens of reasons. But I won't because those are called facts, and facts are something Republicans don't like. So they just deny them and spew nonsense they heard from Rush Limbaugh or Sean Hannity or Glenn Beck...

I will say one thing and one thing only. Fact: expecting CEOs to pay the same amount of their income in taxes as their workers pay is NOT putting a limit on how rich they can get.
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Old February 21st, 2013, 06:03 PM   #28 (permalink)
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Your arguments are automatically suspect when you reveal your true intentions. In a way you contradict yourself. This is the whole greedy, every man for himself republican mindset. Workers are a necessary evil in your attempts to benefit yourselves. Republicans wish they didn't have to pay anyone a dime, and if they could get away with not doing so, they would. Your trickle down economics does NOT work, as have been proven by history time and again. But the truth is republicans don't care about helping others. The more workers they can eliminate from their payroll the better. This is why outsourcing is so popular amongst them. You say the economy is so terrible in one sentence, then say there are more millionaires and billionaires than ever in the next and preach what a good thing that is. Sure it's great, FOR THEM AND THEM ONLY. How is rich people getting richer helping the economy? Oh that's right, its not. Because the economy is on the brink of collapse, according to you.

I think we're doing much better than we were under Bush, and I could state dozens of reasons. But I won't because those are called facts, and facts are something Republicans don't like. So they just deny them and spew nonsense they heard from Rush Limbaugh or Sean Hannity or Glenn Beck...

I will say one thing and one thing only. Fact: expecting CEOs to pay the same amount of their income in taxes as their workers pay is NOT putting a limit on how rich they can get.
Please explain how things are better now?? More unemployed, more people in poverty, more people on food stamps, more illegal aliens, a more divided country, skyrocketing deficit with zero signs of slowing down, and rising healthcare costs are just a few of Obama's negative effects. Can you name a single positive (for the country, not an individual who gets more government handouts)????

I wish the rich paid the same PERCENTAGE of income tax as everyone else. As it stands right now that is not the case. The more money you make the bigger percentage of your income goes to the government to be redistributed to the lazy. THAT is why outsourcing is so popular, because in this country success is punished instead of having a fair system that taxes everyone equally regardless of how much money they make.
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Old February 21st, 2013, 06:41 PM   #29 (permalink)
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Big corporations lobbying and buying off politicians had nothing to do with it? I'm sure like here there are loads of people on benefits, but I'm sure the vast majority want work, not like you suggest, the minority!

Too many people looking for a fast buck, too much greed, big corporations not paying its fair share in taxes, looking to make as big a profit for themselves at the expense of working conditions, pay and benefits to employees! These are the key issues in both our countries, the rich creating and exploiting loop holes so they don't have to pay, its amusing how so many of the really rich end up paying less percentage wise in tax than many of the lower to middle end wages!

With a fair tax system, the super rich would still exploit loop holes, people need honest politicians that will stand up for the majority of citizens, not just the ones who pay for it!
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Old February 21st, 2013, 06:48 PM   #30 (permalink)
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Big corporations lobbying and buying off politicians had nothing to do with it? I'm sure like here there are loads of people on benefits, but I'm sure the vast majority want work, not like you suggest, the minority!

Too many people looking for a fast buck, too much greed, big corporations not paying its fair share in taxes, looking to make as big a profit for themselves at the expense of working conditions, pay and benefits to employees! These are the key issues in both our countries, the rich creating and exploiting loop holes so they don't have to pay, its amusing how so many of the really rich end up paying less percentage wise in tax than many of the lower to middle end wages!

With a fair tax system, the super rich would still exploit loop holes, people need honest politicians that will stand up for the majority of citizens, not just the ones who pay for it!
There are just as many lobbyist groups spending just as much money for the opposite (Unions, immigration groups, etc)

Living here you see first hand that the American spirit is gone from the majority of America. I wish people still took pride and hated government handouts, but unfortunately that is no longer the case. Americans have developed a sense of entitlement and no longer want to work hard to earn anything, and why would they when it is perfectly acceptable now to let the government take care of you. Things are going to get worse before they get any better, because until this country hits rock bottom like Greece the sheep here aren't going to learn anything.
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Old February 21st, 2013, 07:15 PM   #31 (permalink)
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Yeah because $700 a month from SSI, a wage nobody can actually live on, is such an attractive prospect. Everybody is just clamoring to get in on that. Who would want to work and have a decent, comfortable life when you can barely scrape by and run out of food every month and not afford to maintain a vehicle or go anywhere or do anything or go on holiday. You're right that's what everybody wants.

Nobody is saying something shouldn't be done about the moochers who can work but don't want to. But the reality is they are the minority. And to say that literally 50% of the country is supporting the other half is ludicrous. Just because someone doesn't make enough money to pay federal income tax doesn't mean they do nothing or pay no taxes.

At least jobs are going up again. Could be faster if the irresponsible, childish republicans in congress knew how to compromise at all. But what's the alternative? The Bush style policies that caused such massive job loss in the first place?

Obama would like to do something about the deficit. But republicans won't give an inch. It's called raising revenue and entitlement REFORM. Not just willy nilly cutting out the safety net, all while lowering taxes on the rich even more. That is what republicans want and that would be disastrous.
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Old February 22nd, 2013, 03:04 AM   #32 (permalink)
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Prosperity flows downhill.
Except that it doesn't. And that has been proved. Definitively. Please stop making idiotic assertions that have been shown to be absolutely false: the history of the last 30 years shows - indisputably and undeniably - that wealth does not trickle down to the poor, it gets sucked up by the rich.

The rich are 10 times richer in real terms than they were 30 years ago. The middle class is actually poorer in real terms than it was before Bush 2. Trickle down is a lie.

The rich get more and pay (proportionately) less. The headline tax rate for the rich is around half what it was 30 years ago. As you saw from the two tax returns Romney deigned to share, their actual tax rate is way lower - nobody knows if Romney paid any tax at all in the years he didn't publish. And he knew he was going to stand for the presidency. Here in the UK, a famous comedian was revealed to have paid less than 2% tax on his multi-million dollar income. Legally. Starbucks (among many others) was revealed to have paid no corporation tax at all. Ever.

As for the ridiculous notion that the rich are supporting the poor: following the recent bank collapse, we saw the biggest transfer of wealth from the poor to the rich in the whole of human history. Yeah: the poor saved the ass of the rich when the rich got bailed out. Bush gave the banks nearly a trillion dollars and didn't even ask for a receipt. Congress gave the banks hundreds of millions more. The Feb continues to feed hundreds of millions to the banks in the form of quantative easing.

You really need to stop this "math you do as a republican to make yourself feel better" and try looking at reality. Make a nice change.


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Please explain how things are better now?? More unemployed
Unemployment is down since Obama came in.

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more illegal aliens
Immigration is down since Obama came in.

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a more divided country
Think you'll find it's Republicans that have continually refused to compromise. Obama's problem in his first term was that he tried to compromise way too much.

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skyrocketing deficit with zero signs of slowing down
Because Republicans refuse to put tax rates back to where they were before Bush cut them in order to spend the budget SURPLUS left by the previous DEMOCRATIC administration.
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Old February 22nd, 2013, 10:56 AM   #33 (permalink)
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Unemployment is down since Obama came in.



Immigration is down since Obama came in.



Think you'll find it's Republicans that have continually refused to compromise. Obama's problem in his first term was that he tried to compromise way too much.



Because Republicans refuse to put tax rates back to where they were before Bush cut them in order to spend the budget SURPLUS left by the previous DEMOCRATIC administration.
Unemployment RATE is slightly down right now, there are actually more unemployed people, people in poverty, and people on welfare and food stamps. I explained the reason for this deception in an earlier post. Unemployment rate is highly inaccurate when you have millions that either run out of benefits or quit looking for work.

Immigration is down right now because there isn't as much of a reason to enter the country illegally like there is when our economy is thriving. There are more already here though, and Obama has said it is fine for them to continue to commit their crime of being here illegally and draining our resources without paying a dime.

Republicans should not compromise on raising taxes any further. Obama and the dems have already raised taxes on everyone in America without cutting any spending at all. The reason Republicans won't and shouldn't compromise any further is because the dems have an out of control spending problem. All they want is more and more taxes without cutting any wasteful spending. They won't compromise on spending which is what is going to eventually lead to the government defaulting on its debt.

Look at the history. Under Clinton when the economy had a surplus there was a Republican house and senate. Under Bush when the economy went to crap there was a Demacratic house and senate.
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Old February 22nd, 2013, 02:02 PM   #34 (permalink)
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This reminds me of when the unemployment number started falling, all the loony conspiracy theories the right wing dreamed up. Or rather had purposely spoon fed to them by the talking heads. Like Obama and his goons literally fabricated the numbers, or that thousands of inner city jobless people lied about getting new jobs, which would make them lose unemployment and hence the means to support their families, all to make Obama look better.

When the unemployment numbers were bad, republicans used them as their gospel to prove how bad Obama was. When they're good, all of a sudden they're bs and can't be trusted. It's that way with anything good that happens. They can't admit anything good can come out of Obamas presidency, so they have to create conspiracies and twist everything around until it's somehow a bad thing after all, or a complete lie made up by liberals. And the base eats it up with a spoon. Oh how it would be to live in the fairy tale land of the republicans. Wait, actually it would be miserable. A place full of greed, mistrust, hate, misogyny, hypocrisy and bigotry. No thanks.

And Obama is not suggesting letting the "illegal aliens" keep on breaking the law. He is trying to create a rather rigorous path to citizenship so that they can be following the law and paying their share of taxes and whatnot. But the republicans idea is what? Self deportation. Another fantasy not based in reality.
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Old February 22nd, 2013, 02:51 PM   #35 (permalink)
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It is sad to see people dooming themselves to repeat history. What I still can't figure out is how there are so many willing shills who will argue to their dying breath for a system that's going to destroy them too.
One word: Sheeple.

People are lazy and complacent. A lot of people are wrapped up in their own little lives and concerned only with themselves and their immediate needs and desires. Damn the community.

By the time those people wake up (if ever) it'll be too late. We're on a downward slide and have been for a long time. It just seems we're moving faster downhill the older I get.
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Old February 22nd, 2013, 03:18 PM   #36 (permalink)
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Interesting that our president was wildly applauded when he told us that due to his efforts, unemployment claims have declined. What he avoided saying is this was largely due to benefits running out.
New unemployment claims (what that statistic measures) and existing claims running out are two completely different things. It's a straw man argument. FAIL

I don't recall any "wild applause" either. Facts are great. Deliberate distortions of the truth like that are patently false, and IMO have no place in a civilized discussion.
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Old February 22nd, 2013, 03:27 PM   #37 (permalink)
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One word: Sheeple.

People are lazy and complacent. A lot of people are wrapped up in their own little lives and concerned only with themselves and their immediate needs and desires. Damn the community.

By the time those people wake up (if ever) it'll be too late. We're on a downward slide and have been for a long time. It just seems we're moving faster downhill the older I get.
I agree that the major factor in this is a now less-than-great society that has become greedy and self-absorbed. Like children.

We have grown up adults who use their age and presumed wisdom to influence others, but they're thinking like small children! What's worse, this childish practice is being glorified by the right wing media. We have a too-large portion of the society who apparently spend all their spare time idle (and seem to have lots of spare time too), just listening to the pablum that these right wing blowhards feed them, and then go out and puke it back up all over everyone else. Unacceptable!
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Old February 22nd, 2013, 06:28 PM   #38 (permalink)
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Whatever flaws there are calculating the unemployment rate, they have been calculated that way forever. You can't change the rules in the middle of the game. Regardless, the economy has at least been creating jobs every month for quite awhile now. Remember when Obama took over we were hemorrhaging jobs every month. The stock market was below 7000, now it's over 14,000. Remember when everyone's 401(k) was disappearing down the drain? Of course not.
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Old February 22nd, 2013, 06:32 PM   #39 (permalink)
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Also, it's amusing to bash Obama for raising taxes, when the 2% payroll tax break was always intended to be temporary, and it was an Obama policy to lower it in the first place. He didn't raise everyone's taxes, the TEMPORARY tax break expired as designed. It was even extended for an extra year.
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Old February 22nd, 2013, 10:41 PM   #40 (permalink)
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Gotta love those who despise the advancement of society of a whole, not those that that when everyone can at a minimum can survive. If you are in it for your personal advancement, then you are far from a ppatriot, as a true patriot would want to see everyone live rather than the lower and lower middle class die out.
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Old February 22nd, 2013, 11:40 PM   #41 (permalink)
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Gotta love those who despise the advancement of society of a whole, not those that that when everyone can at a minimum can survive. If you are in it for your personal advancement, then you are far from a ppatriot, as a true patriot would want to see everyone live rather than the lower and lower middle class die out.
Exactly! We need everyone to advance, not be divided with class warfare that Obama loves so much. A divided nation will never prosper like a united one. Obama only wants to divide though, not help the country prosper, and he has brainwashed a lot of weak minded individuals into blindly following his lies instead of thinking for themselves and looking at the facts. You know what they say though, "ignorance is bliss"
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Old February 23rd, 2013, 07:26 AM   #42 (permalink)
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Exactly! We need everyone to advance, not be divided with class warfare that Obama loves so much. A divided nation will never prosper like a united one. Obama only wants to divide though, not help the country prosper, and he has brainwashed a lot of weak minded individuals into blindly following his lies instead of thinking for themselves and looking at the facts. You know what they say though, "ignorance is bliss"
Yeah, you guys like to call people you disagree with "sheeple" and "weak minded", yet your side is led by a hateful, painkiller addicted blowhard who gives talking points to his army of idiots that parrot him verbatim and are proud to call themselves "dittoheads". Oh, the irony.
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Old February 23rd, 2013, 09:56 AM   #43 (permalink)
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Gotta love those who despise the advancement of society of a whole, not those that that when everyone can at a minimum can survive. If you are in it for your personal advancement, then you are far from a ppatriot, as a true patriot would want to see everyone live rather than the lower and lower middle class die out.
I would hope rationality and a sense of humanity would come before patriotism.
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Old February 24th, 2013, 09:17 AM   #44 (permalink)
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Yeah, you guys like to call people you disagree with "sheeple" and "weak minded", yet your side is led by a hateful, painkiller addicted blowhard who gives talking points to his army of idiots that parrot him verbatim and are proud to call themselves "dittoheads". Oh, the irony.
Too bad people feel the need to comment on something they know nothing about.
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Old February 24th, 2013, 07:39 PM   #45 (permalink)
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Too bad people feel the need to comment on something they know nothing about.
Actually, I do know. I find it quite hilarious to listen to the right wingers work themselves into hysterics. I'm just waiting for one of them to stroke out on the air.
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Old February 25th, 2013, 12:04 AM   #46 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by ElasticNinja View Post
I would hope rationality and a sense of humanity would come before patriotism.
All 3 of those should go hand in hand in the USA; sadly they no longer do and it is everyone for themselves in the minds on the far right side of the aisle.
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Old February 25th, 2013, 05:42 AM   #47 (permalink)
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Exactly! We need everyone to advance, not be divided with class warfare that Obama loves so much
Obama?!

So far as I can see, the class war has been waged - and won - by the Republicans. The rich are richer. The poor are poorer. The rich are idolised. The poor are demonised.

Obama's policies are what the hard right of the Republican party were pushing 30 years ago.

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A divided nation will never prosper like a united one
Quite. And the country will continue to get more and more divided while the Republicans continue to refuse to make any compromise.

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Obama only wants to divide though
Categorically untrue. Obama's problem has been that he spends far too much time and effort seeking concensus with people who refuse any compromise.

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not help the country prosper
To the extent that he has been allowed to implement his policies, they have turned the economy around, ergo: he has helped the country prosper. In the face of total, partisan opposition from the GOP.

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and he has brainwashed a lot of weak minded individuals into blindly following his lies instead of thinking for themselves and looking at the facts. You know what they say though, "ignorance is bliss"
LMAO! Every point you made is factually incorrect and based on right wing fantasy. I suggest Republicans take a look at the dictionary definition of the word "fact", then follow your - very good -advice and look at a few.
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