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Old February 3rd, 2013, 02:38 PM   #1 (permalink)
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Default My thoughts on the economy,agree/disagree?

I've always had my own theory on the US economy.


I think that even if 9/11 would not have happened that the US economy was going to crash either way. And yes, I do think that 9/11 and the wars that followed didn't help matters I don't think they were the end all be all of the crash.


I always have thought that advances in technology, while great for us in the early to late 90's led to a decline of middle class jobs. For example, I work in the printing industry, the place I am at used to have 8 printing presses, always printing multimedia. Now we have 3 presses that hardly have work anymore. (That's just one example) I remember when things were great in the US (around 1996) one of President Clintons financial advisers addressing when jobs were leaving the US by saying something along the lines of "We don't need those jobs, we dont WANT those jobs"


I think that developing countries using more resources (food,oil..etc..) has caused many of our commonly used things to rise in price. Therefore taking more money out of our pockets.


And with all of the baby boomers retiring it is putting a great pressure on our financial system (this had been talked about since the 1980s). And now it is finally happening.


Thats just a few of my thoughts.

Agree/Disagree?

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Old February 3rd, 2013, 08:57 PM   #2 (permalink)
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I think the USA, maybe the entire world, is being hoodwinked. Even though stocks have climbed to a new high, nothing is really better in the real world, at least since ‘06 or so. I therefore believe Wall Street is due for a sudden and enormous correction.
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Old February 4th, 2013, 03:04 AM   #3 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by BrianJB View Post
I've always had my own theory on the US economy.

I think that even if 9/11 would not have happened that the US economy was going to crash either way. And yes, I do think that 9/11 and the wars that followed didn't help matters I don't think they were the end all be all of the crash.
As a matter of fact, during the Presidential primaries of 2000, Federal Reserve Chairman Alan Greenspan ordered an increase in the prime lending rate, ostensibly "to slow down the economy". This came on the heels of a lot of capital spending by businesses in order to prevent any problems caused by the "Y2K bug", and the economy was slowing by itself. After five or six interest rate boosts, we had a pretty significant stock market crash here in the US as a result of Greenspan's meddling.

I find it hard to believe that anyone with Greenspan's knowledge, experience and resources could have sabotaged the US economy by accident. Because this was a Presidential election year, the most reasonable explanation is that it was done for political purposes. No matter what the motive, the fact is that Greenspan crashed the economy and burst the tech bubble on purpose. There's no evidence that it would have had to crash if Greenspan had not interfered.

The unfunded Vietnam-style wars and the tax give-away under the Bush/Cheney administration did take their toll because all of it was done with borrowed money. Even if there had been no attack on 9-11-2001, the massive sovereign debt that resulted from these colossal spending programs would have still done what they did. But again, these were deliberate acts, not market forces that caused the damage.

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I always have thought that advances in technology, while great for us in the early to late 90's led to a decline of middle class jobs.
That idea is unfounded. Although a few jobs were lost to the advance of technology (which has been going on for millennia), the jobs lost in the '90s were more than made up by the many more (and better) jobs created by the IT industry at that time. In the '90s the net result was many more jobs.

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For example, I work in the printing industry, the place I am at used to have 8 printing presses, always printing multimedia. Now we have 3 presses that hardly have work anymore. (That's just one example)
Yes, that's just one example. And one example does not a rule make.

While offset printing lost business, the boom in laser printing actually saved the printing industry in a big way. Also, I know scads of graphic designers who used to be old-tech printers. They retrained and moved up to better jobs.

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I think that developing countries using more resources (food,oil..etc..) has caused many of our commonly used things to rise in price. Therefore taking more money out of our pockets.
The thing that created the demand for more "food,oil..etc.." was because of the growing production of goods overseas at prices much lower than we in the US could have produced them for. So you have it backwards. We actually saved money due to cheaper consumer goods.

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Agree/Disagree?
You can't rightly call these thoughts theories. They don't have any factual basis, and instead appear to be relying solely on a leap of faith to reach those conclusions. As you can see, the facts pretty much disprove your suppositions. Sorry.
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Old February 4th, 2013, 10:50 AM   #4 (permalink)
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I've always had my own theory on the US economy.

I always have thought that advances in technology, while great for us in the early to late 90's led to a decline of middle class jobs. For example, I work in the printing industry, the place I am at used to have 8 printing presses, always printing multimedia. Now we have 3 presses that hardly have work anymore. (That's just one example) I remember when things were great in the US (around 1996) one of President Clintons financial advisers addressing when jobs were leaving the US by saying something along the lines of "We don't need those jobs, we dont WANT those jobs"
Well in other parts of the world middle class jobs have been kept despite more innovation, its working class ones which are vanishing. Technology means that people should work less hours, the government should ensure hours are brought down instead of more unemployment.

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I think the USA, maybe the entire world, is being hoodwinked. Even though stocks have climbed to a new high, nothing is really better in the real world, at least since ‘06 or so. I therefore believe Wall Street is due for a sudden and enormous correction.
There certainly has been an ongoing transfer of wealth. I think this is a bigger problem in the US. In Europe stagnating living standards are due to austerity.
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Old February 4th, 2013, 11:30 AM   #5 (permalink)
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As a matter of fact, during the Presidential primaries of 2000, Federal Reserve Chairman Alan Greenspan ordered an increase in the prime lending rate, ostensibly "to slow down the economy". This came on the heels of a lot of capital spending by businesses in order to prevent any problems caused by the "Y2K bug", and the economy was slowing by itself. After five or six interest rate boosts, we had a pretty significant stock market crash here in the US as a result of Greenspan's meddling.

I find it hard to believe that anyone with Greenspan's knowledge, experience and resources could have sabotaged the US economy by accident. Because this was a Presidential election year, the most reasonable explanation is that it was done for political purposes. No matter what the motive, the fact is that Greenspan crashed the economy and burst the tech bubble on purpose. There's no evidence that it would have had to crash if Greenspan had not interfered.

The unfunded Vietnam-style wars and the tax give-away under the Bush/Cheney administration did take their toll because all of it was done with borrowed money. Even if there had been no attack on 9-11-2001, the massive sovereign debt that resulted from these colossal spending programs would have still done what they did. But again, these were deliberate acts, not market forces that caused the damage.

That idea is unfounded. Although a few jobs were lost to the advance of technology (which has been going on for millennia), the jobs lost in the '90s were more than made up by the many more (and better) jobs created by the IT industry at that time. In the '90s the net result was many more jobs.

Yes, that's just one example. And one example does not a rule make.

While offset printing lost business, the boom in laser printing actually saved the printing industry in a big way. Also, I know scads of graphic designers who used to be old-tech printers. They retrained and moved up to better jobs.

The thing that created the demand for more "food,oil..etc.." was because of the growing production of goods overseas at prices much lower than we in the US could have produced them for. So you have it backwards. We actually saved money due to cheaper consumer goods.

You can't rightly call these thoughts theories. They don't have any factual basis, and instead appear to be relying solely on a leap of faith to reach those conclusions. As you can see, the facts pretty much disprove your suppositions. Sorry.
I should have kept the discussion in the realm of "my thoughts", that was a bad choice of words on my part. So really it is just one mans thought, I'm not trying to go on FBN and apply it to everyone.

But I don't think we actually money due to consumer goods being produced overseas, because while we may be able to purchase a toy for our kid that would be $15 if produced in america, but is only $5 since it is made in China. We more than make up for that difference with other consumer items costing more money as each year goes on.

And while we know that many things go up in price as years go on we have ran into stagnant wages that have not gone up to combat inflation.


And I can say as far as laser printing is concerned it is not a fully developed technology as of yet. Currently most printers are unsure as to how to move on at the moment, while it could produce more jobs in the future as of now things are in a holding pattern throughout most of the industry.
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Old February 4th, 2013, 02:18 PM   #6 (permalink)
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I should have kept the discussion in the realm of "my thoughts", that was a bad choice of words on my part. So really it is just one mans thought, I'm not trying to go on FBN and apply it to everyone.

But I don't think we actually money due to consumer goods being produced overseas, because while we may be able to purchase a toy for our kid that would be $15 if produced in america, but is only $5 since it is made in China. We more than make up for that difference with other consumer items costing more money as each year goes on.

And while we know that many things go up in price as years go on we have ran into stagnant wages that have not gone up to combat inflation.


And I can say as far as laser printing is concerned it is not a fully developed technology as of yet. Currently most printers are unsure as to how to move on at the moment, while it could produce more jobs in the future as of now things are in a holding pattern throughout most of the industry.
The problem is that in the US government's are not willing to do any level of economic planning. Post War Europe had plans put upon it by the US to great effect (Marshall Plan condition).

The rhetoric in the US is about protectionism instead of changing and competing. The one area I agree with Republicans more than Democrats is with regards to Free Trade agreements - Obama has negotiated no fresh ones, and the US is far far behind Europe with regards to FTAs.

And unfortunately when competitiveness is debated the rhetoric is about keeping the poor poor. Wages should be kept somewhat low. But people still need to have good, no, excellent quality of life. The US cannot simply produce low quality goods. It has to focus on things requiring innovation and University educated workers. Eight out of ten people need to be finishing third level, and they shouldnt have to financially suffer to do so.

Put in place a plan. Set targets. Set out funding and how you will pay for it. Legislate so that every state has to do this or they suffer.
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Old February 4th, 2013, 04:38 PM   #7 (permalink)
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The problem is that in the US government's are not willing to do any level of economic planning. Post War Europe had plans put upon it by the US to great effect (Marshall Plan condition).

The rhetoric in the US is about protectionism instead of changing and competing. The one area I agree with Republicans more than Democrats is with regards to Free Trade agreements - Obama has negotiated no fresh ones, and the US is far far behind Europe with regards to FTAs.

And unfortunately when competitiveness is debated the rhetoric is about keeping the poor poor. Wages should be kept somewhat low. But people still need to have good, no, excellent quality of life. The US cannot simply produce low quality goods. It has to focus on things requiring innovation and University educated workers. Eight out of ten people need to be finishing third level, and they shouldnt have to financially suffer to do so.

Put in place a plan. Set targets. Set out funding and how you will pay for it. Legislate so that every state has to do this or they suffer.

You are 100% correct. I don't remember if it was Steve Jobs or someone else higher in the tech industry basically saying that those jobs in China aren't coming back, because they were never here to begin with and they will never be here.

We need higher education. Heck my brother in law and his wife just both went through 4 years of college, they have a combined $375K of education related debt. He cannot get a job in the field he went to college for (he went in late 07/early 08 for construction foreman)...obviously we know how that has turned out. So he sells insurance at the moment.

And his wife is now a dentist, but she has to work under another dentist for at least 2 years. But guess what?, no dentists in their town have any openings for her, so she has to drive 70 miles (140 miles round trip) to work at a place that only allows her to work 3 days a week, so after paying for gas and other expenses she isn't making a dent in her loans.


Its a bad cycle america is in at the moment.
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Old February 4th, 2013, 04:40 PM   #8 (permalink)
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I therefore believe Wall Street is due for a sudden and enormous correction.
And I don’t mean today’s 130-point stumble.
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Old February 4th, 2013, 09:47 PM   #9 (permalink)
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I should have kept the discussion in the realm of "my thoughts", that was a bad choice of words on my part. So really it is just one mans thought, I'm not trying to go on FBN and apply it to everyone.
No matter how they're named, the important thing to recognize is that these notions aren't true. They're political talking points that were made up to serve the agenda of one political party, but don't edify any of us.

I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but the fact is that the heyday of the old-fashioned print shop has passed forever. Offset printing isn't poised to make a comeback. There will be a niche market for specialty printing jobs, but as a whole, old school printing technology is being abandoned in favor of online publishing.
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Old February 5th, 2013, 02:14 PM   #10 (permalink)
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As Speed Daemon implies, printer not always required (Kindle/Kobo/Nook/Google Books etc.)
My sub for Scientific American is for the pdf version which I read on my N7. I have a number of other magazines on digital subscription and a couple of print ones with a free digital version included in the sub.
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Old February 5th, 2013, 02:20 PM   #11 (permalink)
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I have to admit, I almost snorted at a few comments in here.

Speed Daemon's called most of it accurately, so I'll just say I'm throwing in with his post.

As far as guaranteeing hours... At who's expense? Shall we be like the (poorly managed) Twinkie company where bakers chose to lose jobs entirely rather than a pay cut, then?

As far as 'economic planning', that always works about as far as one can throw the entirety of a government... That is, it always comes to a head and begins to tumble down around itself, like we're seeing now in Europe and the US. Our modern problems were predicted quite accurately by several economics works in the 1900's, especially the problems of mixed economies like the United States.
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Old February 5th, 2013, 02:27 PM   #12 (permalink)
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Much less Govt. intervention in everything. In the UK it's getting beyond silly. Gay marriage seems to be more important than fixing the economy or cutting back/out the ruinous foreign aid to half the world's corrupt regimes.

Even the gay community doesn't seem that bothered, they've got civil partnerships which give them effectively the same legal standing as marriage. Thr Church of England and the Roman Catholic Church are vehemently opposed and at least 100 of the Conservative party (the main party in the coalition) are poised to vote agains the bill. If it gets passed it'll be because the opposition support it regarless of whether they agree or not.
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Old February 5th, 2013, 02:29 PM   #13 (permalink)
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Much less Govt. intervention in everything. In the UK it's getting beyond silly. Gay marriage seems to be more important than fixing the economy or cutting back/out the ruinous foreign aid to half the world's corrupt regimes.

Even the gay community doesn't seem that bothered, they've got civil partnerships which give them effectively the same legal standing as marriage. Thr Church of England and the Roman Catholic Church are vehemently opposed and at least 100 of the Conservative party (the main party in the coalition) are poised to vote agains the bill. If it gets passed it'll be because the opposition support it regarless of whether they agree or not.
This man gets it. I'd say, remove marriage from government entirely and stop letting it be an issue to distract the public with. Let the people and churches decide for themselves who to or not to marry, and stop discriminating against single people or people without kids via taxation.
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Old February 5th, 2013, 04:23 PM   #14 (permalink)
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As far as 'economic planning', that always works about as far as one can throw the entirety of a government... That is, it always comes to a head and begins to tumble down around itself, like we're seeing now in Europe and the US. Our modern problems were predicted quite accurately by several economics works in the 1900's, especially the problems of mixed economies like the United States.
Economic planning has worked quite well for Europe. The problem has been when we have forgotten to plan.

Europe right now has a lower budget deficit than the US, no trade deficit (Despite having no natural resources unlike the US which runs massive trade deficits), has better quality of life, strong modern manufacturing, much lower carbon intensity than the rest of the world etc. The main problem we have is unemployment.

Governments shouldn't be setting targets for x amount of washing machines to be produced. But governments should be planning ahead.

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Much less Govt. intervention in everything. In the UK it's getting beyond silly. Gay marriage seems to be more important than fixing the economy or cutting back/out the ruinous foreign aid to half the world's corrupt regimes.
The UK has one of the smallest governments in Europe. Between Thatcher, Major, Blair and Brown the state shrunk to nothingness. In fact Osbourne is leading the UK towards having lower government expenditure than the US (!) by 2020.

Gay marriage is important. Do you think life stops because of an economic crisis? Good god.

Foreign aid is not ruinous. One needs only look at how well so much of Africa is doing these days, now that we are learning how to do aid properly.
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Even the gay community doesn't seem that bothered, they've got civil partnerships which give them effectively the same legal standing as marriage. Thr Church of England and the Roman Catholic Church are vehemently opposed and at least 100 of the Conservative party (the main party in the coalition) are poised to vote agains the bill. If it gets passed it'll be because the opposition support it regarless of whether they agree or not.
If the Roman Catholic church are opposed it probably is a good idea.

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This man gets it. I'd say, remove marriage from government entirely and stop letting it be an issue to distract the public with. Let the people and churches decide for themselves who to or not to marry, and stop discriminating against single people or people without kids via taxation.
Marriage is a bedrock of society imo.

Childless people should be 'discriminated' against, as they are now. There is nothing wrong with not having kids but there certainly must be indirect income transfers to those with young children and teenagers.

I would like to see an increase in income taxation in exchange for higher child benefit and more third level spending.
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Old February 5th, 2013, 09:04 PM   #15 (permalink)
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Gay marriage is important. Do you think life stops because of an economic crisis?
Certainly not... it stops with the advent of gay marriage.
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Old February 5th, 2013, 09:40 PM   #16 (permalink)
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Certainly not... it stops with the advent of gay marriage.
So allowing a small minority of the population to wed someone of the same gender will cause humans to become extinct? It is impossible and benefits lots of orphaned children or children up for adoption. Why such negativity exists over this issue is hard to fathom, most is due to religious beliefs which should not play a role in government policy creation.
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Old February 5th, 2013, 09:55 PM   #17 (permalink)
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So allowing a small minority of the population to wed someone of the same gender will cause humans to become extinct?
I doubt it, but it is a step in that direction, more so than a financial crisis is.
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Old February 5th, 2013, 10:06 PM   #18 (permalink)
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I doubt it, but it is a step in that direction, more so than a financial crisis is.
Financial crises cause homelessness, lack of nutrition, and lack of proper healthcare. It causes many deaths on its own and that isn't counting the non-births caused by good family planning due to the uncertainty with being able to afford another child.
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Old February 5th, 2013, 10:27 PM   #19 (permalink)
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Go to YouTube and watch George carlin who controls America. Or any bill hicks video related to politics or economy. They didn't mean to be funny. They were telling the truth just presenting it in a numerous way to make it more palatable. But all accurate and true.
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Old February 5th, 2013, 10:27 PM   #20 (permalink)
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But if you were married to someone of your own gender, you wouldn’t have any chance of having that cute avatar. That’s all I’m trying to say.
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Old February 5th, 2013, 10:35 PM   #21 (permalink)
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But if you were married to someone of your own gender, you wouldn’t have any chance of having that cute avatar. That’s all I’m trying to say.
I may not be gay, but I still stand up for their rights. They did not choose their sexual orientation, but they deserve the ability to legalize their relationship just as much as straight people. And adoption helps the children involved as they are in a loving family environment with people, whether straight or homosexual, that want them as their own child. And what more could a child want or need than to be loved?
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Old February 6th, 2013, 05:40 PM   #22 (permalink)
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They did not choose their sexual orientation
So who did, God? On purpose? By mistake?
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Old February 6th, 2013, 06:30 PM   #23 (permalink)
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No matter how they're named, the important thing to recognize is that these notions aren't true. They're political talking points that were made up to serve the agenda of one political party, but don't edify any of us.

I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but the fact is that the heyday of the old-fashioned print shop has passed forever. Offset printing isn't poised to make a comeback. There will be a niche market for specialty printing jobs, but as a whole, old school printing technology is being abandoned in favor of online publishing.
Well, I hope that no one on fox news or msnbc uses my thoughts as their nightly news. If I was trying to state things as facts I would've provided links and stated that they were facts...hince the title of the thread "agree/disagree?".


And as far as offset printing goes, thats what I was saying earlier in the thread, as online publishing and digital downloads came to be it costs many their jobs. And the new technologies didn't correlate into new jobs for many of the people. Thats where I was making my connection with as technology moves forward, while it does give some new jobs it doesn't create even half as many as it takes.
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Old February 7th, 2013, 01:48 AM   #24 (permalink)
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So who did, God? On purpose? By mistake?
A god didn't choose anything. However these people did not have a choice in their sexual orientation, just as you did not.

When did you choose to be straight?
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Old February 7th, 2013, 04:27 AM   #25 (permalink)
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the same time you chose not to be an alligator

you dont choose natural order........ you choose to deviate from it
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Old February 7th, 2013, 12:31 PM   #26 (permalink)
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A god didn't choose anything. However these people did not have a choice in their sexual orientation, just as you did not.
So if my sexual preference wasn’t my decision, and it wasn’t God’s decision, whose decision was it?
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Old February 7th, 2013, 12:50 PM   #27 (permalink)
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So if my sexual preference wasn’t my decision, and it wasn’t God’s decision, whose decision was it?
It wasn't anyone's decision. Your sexual preferences are the result of things that all happened before puberty, before you could have ever decided.

Even among straight guys, you see men who like the opposite sex to be shaped like pencils and others who like those on the squishier side.

Why this is even being discussed I don't know, its certainly irrelevant to the topic at hand.
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Old February 7th, 2013, 01:01 PM   #28 (permalink)
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the same time you chose not to be an alligator

you dont choose natural order........ you choose to deviate from it
Gay people don't just wake up every day and choose from a buffet of orientation. And if they did, i cant imagine them choosing the one thats going to get them discriminated against or potentially killed every time. I certainly can't just flip a switch and decide to be gay. I didn't choose to be straight. It just happened. Lucky me, i have one less thing to worry about in the world. I don't need laws passed to be treated as an equal to others.
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Old February 10th, 2013, 07:48 AM   #29 (permalink)
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This man gets it. I'd say, remove marriage from government entirely and stop letting it be an issue to distract the public with. Let the people and churches decide for themselves who to or not to marry, and stop discriminating against single people or people without kids via taxation.
Amen to that!!!

Overpopulation has been one of the leading contributors to many of the world's ills. The efficacy of breeding more of "our kind" for political gain has been over for a very long time. So why are our governments (Communist China excepted) still encouraging this practice, and all the detriments that it brings?
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Old February 10th, 2013, 11:34 AM   #30 (permalink)
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Amen to that!!!

Overpopulation has been one of the leading contributors to many of the world's ills. The efficacy of breeding more of "our kind" for political gain has been over for a very long time. So why are our governments (Communist China excepted) still encouraging this practice, and all the detriments that it brings?
Overpopulation doesn't mean that we should make it difficult to have kids. Europe's population is set to peak then decline back to 500 million over the next few decades. Barring the admittance of Turkey or unforeseen immigration we are heading for a problem.
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Old February 21st, 2013, 06:53 AM   #31 (permalink)
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Wow!

Where to start?

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I find it hard to believe that anyone with Greenspan's knowledge, experience and resources could have sabotaged the US economy by accident.
I'm afraid you have this one completely the wrong way around: the mistake Greenspan made was not raising interest rates EARLIER. He has his reasons for this - an earlier potential crash that this action helped avert - but he maintained the policy too long which led to the economy overheating and crashing. A pattern that has been recognised and documented in economics since at least the 16th century.

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Let the people and churches decide for themselves who to or not to marry
How the heck did this discussion get onto same sex marriage?! What's that got to do with economics?

I agree that people should decide: marriage is a civil institution. Churches should have no say in marriage laws. Even Luther, the guy who nailed his note to the church door and started protestantism agreed with that.

Churches are merely venues licensed to carry it weddings. As such, they should either perform the ceremony for everyone who is legally entitled to marry or marry no-one at all.

Bigotry is bigotry, no matter how you choose to read your selection of religious texts.

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the same time you chose not to be an alligator

you dont choose natural order........ you choose to deviate from it
Let me get this right: you're saying that since homosexuality is natural (have to agree with that: it's common across the animal kingdom) you think homophobes are deviants?

I think that's putting it a little strongly ..

Here's the thing about same sex marriage: if you don't agree with it, don't marry someone who's the same sex as you.

That's all it has to do with you.

Who other people choose to marry is absolutely NONE OF YOUR BUSINESS.
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Old May 5th, 2013, 08:32 AM   #32 (permalink)
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Old May 11th, 2013, 01:44 AM   #33 (permalink)
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Our economy is fine. As long as US dollar is main currency on our planet and we have the biggest and strongest army, we have nothing to worry about.
If you think there are no jobs you are under skilled or just lazy person (I know there are exceptions, but I'm talking about general public), there are plenty of jobs out there. If there are none in your area, it's time to move out of the hole you live in.

My thought about next financial crisis:
I think it's going to happen fairly soon and it's going to be caused by over production of things. How many products can you make and sell. World is getting flooded with TV's, furniture, other electronics, etc.. If something is going to trigger us (and other countries of cause), to stop buying all that, we are screwed again.
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Old May 11th, 2013, 10:36 AM   #34 (permalink)
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Our economy is fine. As long as US dollar is main currency on our planet and we have the biggest and strongest army, we have nothing to worry about
I don't know about that.

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If you think there are no jobs you are under skilled or just lazy person (I know there are exceptions, but I'm talking about general public), there are plenty of jobs out there. If there are none in your area, it's time to move out of the hole you live in.
The way the economy is at the moment, people will be unemployed. Can't blame them.

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My thought about next financial crisis:
I think it's going to happen fairly soon and it's going to be caused by over production of things. How many products can you make and sell. World is getting flooded with TV's, furniture, other electronics, etc.. If something is going to trigger us (and other countries of cause), to stop buying all that, we are screwed again.
I do somewhat agree with this. There is still scarcity, and there must be better distribution of income (in the US at least), however personal consumption cannot keep increasing. Personally I think an environmental investment program is need to reduce emissions and reverse damage.
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Old May 11th, 2013, 01:58 PM   #35 (permalink)
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I don't know about that.

The way the economy is at the moment, people will be unemployed. Can't blame them.



I do somewhat agree with this. There is still scarcity, and there must be better distribution of income (in the US at least), however personal consumption cannot keep increasing. Personally I think an environmental investment program is need to reduce emissions and reverse damage.

Our economy is in much better shape than it was in 2008. The reason I'm saying that its fine is because compairing it to many european countries and many other we are going much better job slowly improving it.

Ok let me fix myself. We have jobs, the issues is underemployment. We live in fast era and some jobs are being outdated very fast. That's why there are people who graduate from college and struggling to find jobs.
There are jobs because we have 11+ million of illegal immigrants and most of them have lived here for more than 10 years. If we have so many jobs for so many people without SS's and employment authorizations, there are many better jobs available for people with much wider range of legal job selection. With all honesty some illegals have better quality of life than some Americans.
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Old May 23rd, 2013, 05:09 AM   #36 (permalink)
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The reason our country is going in the toilet is because of who won the last election! Tax, tax, tax, Spend, spend, spend, that's all the liberals know how to do. 17 Trillion in debt & that jerks out of control reckless spending goes on & on. Food stamps, free housing, Obamacare & so on. A family of 10 Illegal aliens sneaks into OUR country, has a kid here & ALL the free-bee's are their's. But Obama wants them here for the votes. He just got through raising taxes on everyone who makes over $450 G's a year. These are the small businesses who employ 98% of our small business employees. That's why businesses won't hire & expand. Obamacare is now even being questioned by the Liberals who were for it at first. Hopefully it'll be repealed. Unemployment (the real G 6 figure) is out of control. Jobs are scarce because of Obama's taxes & rules & regulations on businesses. We have more minimum wage jobs but fewer skilled jobs. His environmental policies, excessive rules & regulations are killing business. The Keystone Pipeline would employ thousands of union workers & bring millions into local economies but he turned it down. Not to mention what it would do to lesson our dependence on foreign oil. BUT, sooner or later one of his illegal stunts is going to catch up to him. Fast & Furious, Benghazi, the IRS scandal, the Associated Press scandal. Obama & Holder deserve to be impeached at the very least. His foreign policy stinks. Shunning Israel while standing up for Islamic countries. The rest of the world laughs at us thanks to him. OMG, I just read a comment below; Quote; "there needs to be better distribution of money"??? THAT'S Socialism/Communism! Move to China or Cuba if you want that! Remember what Margret Thatcher said; "The problem with Socialism is what do you do when you run out of other peoples money"... nite ; )
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Old May 23rd, 2013, 10:48 AM   #37 (permalink)
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If you think there are no jobs you are under skilled or just lazy person (I know there are exceptions, but I'm talking about general public), there are plenty of jobs out there. If there are none in your area, it's time to move out of the hole you live in.
I can turn you on to any number of high pay jobs, but you better have skills. Soldering positions are available, for example, but in several cases, you must be IPC Certified or go away.

I know of a welding position that opened and ever applicant either could not weld or they thought the job was soldering. Several people thought the company would teach them to weld.

In other cases, people dress like bums. They arrive late or they have spotty history. employers look at the person, their history, your references and in some cases, your Google activity, posts, Facebook and the like.

I will suggest that in a group of 100 applicants, after talking with each briefly, I can tell you exactly who will not be hired.

Business owners are seeking value for their dollar. Training budgets are being cut and you darn well be ready to hit the job running.

Oddly enough, some local concerns have learned to to more with fewer people. I have seen lines cut in half produce more product with fewer defects.
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Old May 23rd, 2013, 04:26 PM   #38 (permalink)
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The reason our country is going in the toilet is because of who won the last election! Tax, tax, tax, Spend, spend, spend, that's all the liberals know how to do.
Taxing and spending is generally a good policy.

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Unemployment (the real G 6 figure) is out of control. Jobs are scarce because of Obama's taxes & rules & regulations on businesses.
Isn't unemployment like 8%? Haha. Jobs are scare because the global economy is in the shitter.

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His foreign policy stinks. Shunning Israel while standing up for Islamic countries. The rest of the world laughs at us thanks to him.
The US supports Israel before far more worthy countries such as Indonesia.

I like Israel as much as the next guy (Their Eurovision failure this year was so sad, I wanted to vote for them), but you know, the whole illegal occupation and exploitation thing.

What's wrong with standing up for countries with large Muslim populations? Not that I see Obama doing it that often.
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Old May 25th, 2013, 12:00 PM   #39 (permalink)
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Isn't unemployment like 8%? Haha. Jobs are scare because the global economy is in the shitter.
He was talking about U6 unemployment. I understand that economists generally look at U6 unemployment as a more accurate measure of the health of the economy since it factors in people who don't work as much as they want (Plus U5 which is marginally attached and U4 which is discouraged workers).

The April '13 figure for U6 was 13.4% (the "official" U3 number was 7.1%) according to BLS. Many employers are moving towards part-time workers to avoid the added costs of employing full-time workers like healthcare and retirement.
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Old May 26th, 2013, 06:41 AM   #40 (permalink)
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On my phone so I'm not reading through everyone's replies past OP. This is what I've noticed. When I was in high school, 96-00, I had a job that paid $10/hr. My brother recently moved to Colorado to live with me. Most of his job offers were paying just slightly above minimum wage. He finally took one that pays $12/hr. You would think in 13 years pay would have increased.

Also to add the opinion of a friend, he's a professor teaching economics at a local university, the reason the stock market is doing so well while it seems like nothing is improving because the Fed is loaning money to banks and the banks instead out lending out the money to consumers is placing it in safe investments for themselves.
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Old May 26th, 2013, 12:42 PM   #41 (permalink)
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On my phone so I'm not reading through everyone's replies past OP. This is what I've noticed. When I was in high school, 96-00, I had a job that paid $10/hr. My brother recently moved to Colorado to live with me. Most of his job offers were paying just slightly above minimum wage. He finally took one that pays $12/hr. You would think in 13 years pay would have increased.
Indeed, the US has a huge problem with regards to people in lower social strata failing to see any earning increases.

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Also to add the opinion of a friend, he's a professor teaching economics at a local university, the reason the stock market is doing so well while it seems like nothing is improving because the Fed is loaning money to banks and the banks instead out lending out the money to consumers is placing it in safe investments for themselves.
Sounds accurate to me.
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Old May 26th, 2013, 08:50 PM   #42 (permalink)
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On my phone so I'm not reading through everyone's replies past OP. This is what I've noticed. When I was in high school, 96-00, I had a job that paid $10/hr. My brother recently moved to Colorado to live with me. Most of his job offers were paying just slightly above minimum wage. He finally took one that pays $12/hr. You would think in 13 years pay would have increased.
sounds to me like in 13 years pay increased by 20%.... thats fairly hefty......

not sure what the problem is here
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Old May 26th, 2013, 10:01 PM   #43 (permalink)
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sounds to me like in 13 years pay increased by 20%.... thats fairly hefty......

not sure what the problem is here
Right. Maybe you missed the part where most of his offers were barely above minimum wage? I think his pay is extremely low considering what he does. Maybe if he was a fry cook I could understand offering him barely above minimum wage but being a roughneck should give a little more pay.
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Old May 27th, 2013, 02:47 AM   #44 (permalink)
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most of bill gates offers would be minimum wage as well......... thats the majority of jobs out there...... in ANY economic status

he of course opted to be a kajillionaire instead

and your brother opted for $12/hour instead of minimum wage as well... is he now in high school like you were when you worked for $10/hour? does he have a higher degree? does he have a horrible work history? you really didnt give us much to go on as a comparison

your comparison relies on false premises to begin with....... what you made 13 years ago vs what he (who is not you) makes today isnt really apples to apples is it?

so we must pretend it is and use it as a comparison..... in which case all things being equal..... the job income has improved by 20%...... thats huge over a 13 year period

just out of curiosity....... does your professor friend make minimum wage?
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Old May 27th, 2013, 06:57 PM   #45 (permalink)
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Please stick to attacking the topic at hand, not other members.

Any further insults (especially nitpicking at perceived grammatical errors) will be met with warnings/infractions.

If you've issues with that, please drop me a PM.
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Old May 27th, 2013, 07:11 PM   #46 (permalink)
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Well I'm not one to keep tabs on political affairs, Often it feels like the US government is a time bomb waiting to set off. If I see that no successful measures to "defuse the bomb" take place, ill be on the first plane to Switzerland .
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Old May 28th, 2013, 10:46 AM   #47 (permalink)
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Well I'm not one to keep tabs on political affairs, Often it feels like the US government is a time bomb waiting to set off. If I see that no successful measures to "defuse the bomb" take place, ill be on the first plane to Switzerland .
Make sure you want to live there permanently. It will be the biggest decision you will ever make. Bit I saw the smiley so I know you are perhaps not serious. .

It is a lovely place with no state religion and a fairly stable economy. Things are changing, however. Now the Swiss report possible tax cheats to our IRS.

Not sure, but I think there is a Swiss tax. So if you move there, give up U.S citsenship or you might (might because I am not an expert here) be paying taxes to the country yo no longer love.

I would never leave the United states unless something really, REALLY bad happened. I still have faith that things will improve because the historical record tells me so. and eventually, people will tire of the Washington BS and come to their proper mindset.

http://www.swissworld.org/en/faq/living_in_switzerland/

"The rules on immigration are very strict. Your nationality is important: citizens of the 15 pre-2004 EU member states and of EFTA countries face fewer restrictions than citizens from the rest of the world.

It is almost impossible for non-EU nationals to find work in Switzerland: they need to be highly qualified and able to perform a job that no Swiss person can do. Without a job arranged in advance, you cannot take up residence."

Good Luck and send me chocolate and a new watch.
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Old August 7th, 2013, 11:22 AM   #48 (permalink)
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The US has a planned economy, its just planned by those which have a very specific agenda.

Robert Reich (Why Republicans Want Jobs to Stay Anemic)

"First, high unemployment keeps wages down. Workers who are worried about losing their jobs settle for whatever they can get — which is why hourly earnings keep dropping. The median wage is now 4 percent lower than it was at the start of the recovery. Low wages help boost corporate profits, thereby keeping the regressives’ corporate sponsors happy.

Second, high unemployment fuels the bull market on Wall Street. That’s because the Fed is committed to buying long-term bonds as long as unemployment remains high. This keeps bond yields low and pushes investors into equities — which helps boosts executive pay and Wall Street commissions, thereby keeping regressives’ financial sponsors happy.

Third, high unemployment keeps most Americans economically fearful and financially insecure. This sets them up to believe regressive lies — that their biggest worry should be that “big government” will tax away the little they have and give it to “undeserving” minorities; that they should support low taxes on corporations and wealthy “job creators;” and that new immigrants threaten their jobs."
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