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Old March 6th, 2013, 10:20 AM   #1 (permalink)
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Default TSA Going Soft?

I just found out that soon, the TSA will allow us to carry a knife aboard aircraft. Perhaps it is TSA going soft or perhaps they are tired of the backlash and ticked off passengers.

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Old March 6th, 2013, 10:27 AM   #2 (permalink)
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TSA to allow pocketknives, some sports equipment - CNN.com

I don't see pocket knives being a big issue.
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Old March 6th, 2013, 10:59 AM   #3 (permalink)
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I don't know - 911 was achieved with box cutters. A suitably sharpened pocket knife would be just as dangerous.

Have to say that, while I find a lot of the security when you're flying a total PITA and completely OTT, I think even I would draw the line at knives ..
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Old March 6th, 2013, 11:28 AM   #4 (permalink)
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I don't know - 911 was achieved with box cutters. A suitably sharpened pocket knife would be just as dangerous.

Have to say that, while I find a lot of the security when you're flying a total PITA and completely OTT, I think even I would draw the line at knives ..

before 911 you could walk into cockpit without any issues, now all planes have them locked. if you really want to bring a box cutter on board you can sneak it in.

I have a small 1.5 inch pocket knife on me all the time, I'd be pissed to take it off everytime I board the plane.
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Old March 6th, 2013, 01:29 PM   #5 (permalink)
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I don't see pocket knives being a big issue.
I do--when you consider that box cutters were sufficient to pull off the 9/11 attacks. I think it's absolutely insane to allow knives of ANY size back onto planes. They're going to restrict these to blades that are up to 2.36"--but that's plenty long enough to kill or injure someone. I understand that the cockpit doors are now fortified and locked, but what about the passengers and the flight attendants? They can be attacked by some knife-wielding lunatic...
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Old March 6th, 2013, 01:57 PM   #6 (permalink)
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I find it a little amusing that they still will no long allow box cutters, when all the box cutters I have used have a smaller blade than the 2.36" allowed for the pocket knives.

The news broadcast I saw last night stated their reason being that they want to focus on finding more dangerous items such as explosives and guns.

They also said that each month they collect 800lbs of confiscated items, and 400lbs of that being pocket knives fitting the description of soon to be allowed knives.

And regardless of what is allowed on the plane, if someone wants to cause harm to someone they will find other ways to do so. My fist is big enough and packs enough punch to injure someone as I am sure many others' are too.
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Old March 6th, 2013, 03:20 PM   #7 (permalink)
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I do--when you consider that box cutters were sufficient to pull off the 9/11 attacks. I think it's absolutely insane to allow knives of ANY size back onto planes. They're going to restrict these to blades that are up to 2.36"--but that's plenty long enough to kill or injure someone. I understand that the cockpit doors are now fortified and locked, but what about the passengers and the flight attendants? They can be attacked by some knife-wielding lunatic...

I'd rather have them focus on more dangerous items or illegal things. As it was mentioned, if you want to harm someone, you can find a way no matter what.
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Old March 6th, 2013, 03:44 PM   #8 (permalink)
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I'd rather have them focus on more dangerous items or illegal things.
Um...knives would still BE illegal if not for this new change.

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As it was mentioned, if you want to harm someone, you can find a way no matter what.
You're absolutely right. But why make it easier by allowing *KNIVES* on planes?
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Old March 6th, 2013, 04:15 PM   #9 (permalink)
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maybe once they allow these they could also allow the "nice" restaurants to have steak knives. I was with a few friends and we went to a place that seemed nice, one of them ordered a steak, and when it was brought out he asked for a knife to cut it with, and he was told that they didn't have any because there was a chance of someone taking it on the plane. He was told he would have to use his fork for cutting.

I'm not sure if you know this, but its not exactly easy to cut a steak with a fork.
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Old March 6th, 2013, 05:08 PM   #10 (permalink)
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Um...knives would still BE illegal if not for this new change.


You're absolutely right. But why make it easier by allowing *KNIVES* on planes?

what was the last time you traveled? Lines at the airports are huge and someone has to despose all those confiscated things. If they find a tiny knife in my pocket I get pulled aside and going to strip me for 30min. Result is waste of money and inefficient work by TSA.

I don't think anyone ever tried to capture a plane with box cutter after 9/11 and its not because they made them illegal. It's a smart move by TSA to become more efficient, and don't waste time and resources on stupid BS.

P. S. I would be the one to forget that I have a tiny knife in my pocket at all times. Its a useful tool that I think every person should have with them.

Your sound like you want to put a handcuffs on every passanger just to make sure the flight is safe. "and don't forget, handcuffs are for your own safety"
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Old March 6th, 2013, 05:16 PM   #11 (permalink)
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maybe once they allow these they could also allow the "nice" restaurants to have steak knives. I was with a few friends and we went to a place that seemed nice, one of them ordered a steak, and when it was brought out he asked for a knife to cut it with, and he was told that they didn't have any because there was a chance of someone taking it on the plane. He was told he would have to use his fork for cutting.

I'm not sure if you know this, but its not exactly easy to cut a steak with a fork.

what a nonsense, they should just cage every passanger, I was told by an elephant that it's most comfortable way of traveling.
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Old March 6th, 2013, 05:49 PM   #12 (permalink)
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Hi folks, I think this belongs here in Politics and Current Affairs. Any questions, shoot me a PM.
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Old March 6th, 2013, 06:45 PM   #13 (permalink)
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I think it's a stupid move. Nothing has happened for awhile, so they get relaxed on security. Until the next thing happens. Sure, there won't be another 9/11 using knives, but why take the chance of a deranged passenger attacking another passenger or holding a stewardess hostage? I would have no problem with people packing their knives in their luggage if they want, but there's no use for them on the plane anyway. This is just a proposal for now, and I predict it won't take effect after all of the outcry from the pilots and flight attendants.
On a slightly related note, I heard the TSA is about to spend $500 million on new uniforms. I think we should dress them all in Barney Fife outfits lol.
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Old March 6th, 2013, 07:37 PM   #14 (permalink)
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I would have had more of an opinion about this had I not heard a local TSA agent interviewed yesterday.....

why not allow knives....... most dont realize it...... but you can already take scissors as long as they are less than 4" from tip to screw.... thats the same thing as 2 knives when you remove the screw
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Old March 6th, 2013, 08:50 PM   #15 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by unnamedny View Post
before 911 you could walk into cockpit without any issues, now all planes have them locked. if you really want to bring a box cutter on board you can sneak it in.

I have a small 1.5 inch pocket knife on me all the time, I'd be pissed to take it off everytime I board the plane.
The news reported that the TSA has confiscated more than one million knifes so far. Perhaps they will simply take it, if you tell them you have it? I refuse to carry anything I do not want them to take.

Not sure what they can do to you if they discover you sneaked a "weapon" aboard the aircraft.

I see this as a good thing.
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Old March 6th, 2013, 08:54 PM   #16 (permalink)
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I think it's a stupid move. Nothing has happened for awhile, so they get relaxed on security. Until the next thing happens. Sure, there won't be another 9/11 using knives, but why take the chance of a deranged passenger attacking another passenger or holding a stewardess hostage? I would have no problem with people packing their knives in their luggage if they want, but there's no use for them on the plane anyway. This is just a proposal for now, and I predict it won't take effect after all of the outcry from the pilots and flight attendants.
On a slightly related note, I heard the TSA is about to spend $500 million on new uniforms. I think we should dress them all in Barney Fife outfits lol.
The ban on everything tells the terrorists to plan a different move. They are smart people and if there is another attack, we will ask ourselves, "why did we not think of that move?"

Before the TSA and the terrible events of 9/11, we did not see a rash of "deranged passengers attacking another passenger or holding a stewardess hostage."

And leave Barney alone, dag nabbit. I loved the little guy. After the uniforms, they will likely want something related to protecting us.
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Old March 6th, 2013, 09:01 PM   #17 (permalink)
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maybe once they allow these they could also allow the "nice" restaurants to have steak knives. I was with a few friends and we went to a place that seemed nice, one of them ordered a steak, and when it was brought out he asked for a knife to cut it with, and he was told that they didn't have any because there was a chance of someone taking it on the plane. He was told he would have to use his fork for cutting.

I'm not sure if you know this, but its not exactly easy to cut a steak with a fork.
Holy cats in a bag. Seriously? No wait, why am I the least bit surprised that some silly moron decides that his steak house should not allow knives. Did you tell the server that the fork can be used to stab people in the brain, so they better use plastic. And coffee. Forget the coffee because it makes you hyper.

Warn the eatery that by coming to their place, you might take one of their forks, drink some coffee and go postal.

Better yet, go to Burger King . . . I'll email you a coupon for some Freedom Fries and a Burger that is made from a cow Dick Cheney himself shot.
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Old March 6th, 2013, 09:05 PM   #18 (permalink)
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what was the last time you traveled? Lines at the airports are huge and someone has to despose all those confiscated things. If they find a tiny knife in my pocket I get pulled aside and going to strip me for 30min. Result is waste of money and inefficient work by TSA.

I don't think anyone ever tried to capture a plane with box cutter after 9/11 and its not because they made them illegal. It's a smart move by TSA to become more efficient, and don't waste time and resources on stupid BS.

P. S. I would be the one to forget that I have a tiny knife in my pocket at all times. Its a useful tool that I think every person should have with them.

Your sound like you want to put a handcuffs on every passanger just to make sure the flight is safe. "and don't forget, handcuffs are for your own safety"
If you look on YouTube, a professional locksmith demonstrates how to use a simple shim to get out of those cuffs. So I suggest something else.

Cages are a good idea, I must admit.

Also, make every flight a naked flight so there is nothing to hide.

Perhaps we need a crazy person to strangle a Stewardess with his shirt or pants. The TSA will surely ban clothing.
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Old March 6th, 2013, 09:53 PM   #19 (permalink)
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I would have had more of an opinion about this had I not heard a local TSA agent interviewed yesterday.....

why not allow knives....... most dont realize it...... but you can already take scissors as long as they are less than 4" from tip to screw.... thats the same thing as 2 knives when you remove the screw
I didn't know that. I guess you might as well allow knives if that is true.
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Old March 7th, 2013, 05:44 AM   #20 (permalink)
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When we consider that the sole function of the Bush-era TSA was to spread false fear among the traveling public, so that they would meekly comply with that administration's agenda of "big government-no personal liberties", I think that it's about time that the US' own Orwellian ministry for FUD-spreading backed down and got real.

Having said that, I don't know if going straight to allowing pocket knives with blades long enough to intimidate (although not seriously injure) another passenger is quite the way to go. I'm not going to replace my sturdy pocket knife for one that's TSA-compliant any time soon! But I would like to get through our new "intra-state Customs" without having all of my cool toys "confiscated" by criminals wearing uniforms.

So I give a hearty "Bravo" to the Land-of-the-Free, Home-of-the-Brave people and suggest a less shocking step back towards restoring our Constitutional liberties.
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Old March 7th, 2013, 05:57 AM   #21 (permalink)
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I think it's a stupid move. Nothing has happened for awhile, so they get relaxed on security. Until the next thing happens. Sure, there won't be another 9/11 using knives, but why take the chance of a deranged passenger attacking another passenger or holding a stewardess hostage?
First of all, it's Flight Attendant, not stewardess.

Now...if you want a 100% guaranteed safe flight, you can simply stay at home and cower. There will always be some unruly passenger or other kind of threat. Now that the American flying public has enough courage to risk air piracy charges to save a flight from a deranged pilot-in-command, I think it's a pretty safe bet that we will continue to handle deranged passengers with equal aplomb.
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Old March 7th, 2013, 06:03 AM   #22 (permalink)
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Don't accuse people of things.

If you want help with something griping you, get a mod.

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Old March 7th, 2013, 10:11 AM   #23 (permalink)
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First of all, it's Flight Attendant, not stewardess.

Now...if you want a 100% guaranteed safe flight, you can simply stay at home and cower. There will always be some unruly passenger or other kind of threat. Now that the American flying public has enough courage to risk air piracy charges to save a flight from a deranged pilot-in-command, I think it's a pretty safe bet that we will continue to handle deranged passengers with equal aplomb.
OK, I'll play PC . . it is Flight Attendant.
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Old March 7th, 2013, 10:57 AM   #24 (permalink)
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Don't quite understand the argument about not being able to 100% guarantee safety: nothing can be 100% safe, you do what you can to make it as safe as practicable.

I've read what people say above and I'm still not convinced allowing bladed objects on flights is a great idea. Then again, in the UK, there are laws against carrying knives on the street so maybe I'm just a bit of a wuss ..
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Old March 7th, 2013, 04:15 PM   #25 (permalink)
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Ah but up in Scotland we punch flaming terrorists to the ground in our airports!
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Old March 7th, 2013, 06:49 PM   #26 (permalink)
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really? I wouldnt have thought that......... since the last air terrorist you had in custody....... you SET FREE
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Old March 7th, 2013, 07:24 PM   #27 (permalink)
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Don't quite understand the argument about not being able to 100% guarantee safety: nothing can be 100% safe, you do what you can to make it as safe as practicable.

I've read what people say above and I'm still not convinced allowing bladed objects on flights is a great idea. Then again, in the UK, there are laws against carrying knives on the street so maybe I'm just a bit of a wuss ..
Here in the US, you can get away with carrying just about any blade. Gets trickier if it's concealed. Strap a 2 ft machete to your back and you're all good. Hide it under your overcoat and it's a different question.
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Old March 8th, 2013, 12:11 AM   #28 (permalink)
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Don't quite understand the argument about not being able to 100% guarantee safety: nothing can be 100% safe, you do what you can to make it as safe as practicable.
Well, there is a way to guarantee 100% that you will not come to harm while doing something: just don't do it.

While it may seem to be a Good Thing to shoot for 100% safety (accomplishing as much safety as humanly possible), what about other factors, such as liberty? Yes you might be a tiny percentage safer if you're held as a prisoner, at the mercy of the airline. The thing is...some people don't care to be treated as prisoners for some reason. And since liberty is a Constitutionally protected right here in the US and safety is not, I think they'd be in the right for wanting to retain some level of liberty while on a commercial aircraft. IJS

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I've read what people say above and I'm still not convinced allowing bladed objects on flights is a great idea. Then again, in the UK, there are laws against carrying knives on the street so maybe I'm just a bit of a wuss ..
Likewise there's common law giving broad-ranging powers to the captain of a vessel, including airliners. No matter what the TSA allows, the pilot in charge of your flight can confiscate pocket knives, or deny boarding to people who have them. I know; I had my Swiss Army Knife confiscated for the duration of the flight when I went to camp in Colorado circa 1974. I was 12.

Given the events on 2001-09-11 I'm inclined to continue packing my gentleman's folding knife (that would be a large stretch to call a weapon) for the greater good. But I would like to be able to go to the airport without first having to scour all of my carry-on baggage to make sure that I haven't left behind a harmless computer screwdriver, for example. There can be, and should be a middle ground here.

A good place to start is by letting people keep their shoes on as long as they don't set off the metal detectors. Face it, the one and only reason why the TSA made us take our shoes off, commencing fully five years after the single failed shoe-bomb attempt, is to FUD us.
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Old March 8th, 2013, 05:24 AM   #29 (permalink)
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Actually, in the UK they do only make you take your shoes off if you trigger the detector - last w/end I didn't have to take off my trainers but my missus had to take off her zipped boots.

Not quite sure why the metal matters - I don't think the shoe bomber had metal in the explosive he tried to ignite. I think I saw something that claimed he only had enought explosive to hurt himself and maybe the passenger right next to him anyway.
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Old March 8th, 2013, 11:08 AM   #30 (permalink)
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Here in the US, you can get away with carrying just about any blade. Gets trickier if it's concealed. Strap a 2 ft machete to your back and you're all good. Hide it under your overcoat and it's a different question.
Until you are caught then it becomes very complicated.
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Old March 9th, 2013, 04:37 PM   #31 (permalink)
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really? I wouldnt have thought that......... since the last air terrorist you had in custody....... you SET FREE
That is a very complicated case, it is under Scots law that we have compassion.....at discretion of course!

In his instance there is a lot of contradictory evidence suggesting he may be innocent, even people who have family members that died as a result, feel he may have been innocent!

As he was tried under Scots law, and served in our prisons, it is only fair we release him under the same terms as others, granted, he lived for longer than was anticipated, but if he was innocent this is no bad thing.....

besides, we still had airport terrorists who were stopped, without needing the use of any guns, or other weapons for that matter!
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Old March 9th, 2013, 05:12 PM   #32 (permalink)
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I recently returned from a flight and realized I had a razor and razor blades in my carry on..I thought that was not allowed..changes every week I swear! Actually it is different at every airport! I was talking to a TSA agent about it at one of the airports..he agreed it was ridiculous..shoes on?shoes off? lighters? yes no..seperate bin for tablets and computers or no...it's crazy and it slows everything down....he was saying some people get all Pissy because they don't have to do this at their airport and blah blah blah...

and no matter how hard I try...they always just let me walk on by never bother to stop or check me or give me the stink eye..nothin!
maybe because I'm friendly...hmmm



still..should at least have set standards across the board at every airport would help...
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Old March 9th, 2013, 11:41 PM   #33 (permalink)
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I do--when you consider that box cutters were sufficient to pull off the 9/11 attacks. I think it's absolutely insane to allow knives of ANY size back onto planes. They're going to restrict these to blades that are up to 2.36"--but that's plenty long enough to kill or injure someone. I understand that the cockpit doors are now fortified and locked, but what about the passengers and the flight attendants? They can be attacked by some knife-wielding lunatic...
The problem was not that the terrorists had weapons. The problem was that only the terrorists had weapons, leaving the passengers and crew unable to fight back. Well, that, and that up until 9/11, hijackings nearly always ended in ways that left most of the passengers alive, leading to a mindset that the “safest” thing to do was not provoke the hijackers.

Flight 93 was the one where the passengers, having learned of the fate of three previously-hijacked planes, decided to fight back. But they were unarmed against a much smaller number of armed attackers. They succeeded at stopping the hijackers from crashing the plane into its intended target, but were not able to regain control of the plane and prevent it from being crashed. I think that would have turned out very differently if a fair portion of the passengers were armed, and, once the decision was made to fight the hijackers, they had sufficient weapons to do so in a more effective manner.

Really, yours is the same mindset behind all gun control laws—the assumption that prohibiting the possession of weapons will make people safer, when, in fact, it demonstrably has the opposite effect, by leaving honest citizens who obey such prohibitions unarmed and defenseless against criminals who, by definition, do not obey laws, and who are therefore armed even when it is illegal to be so.
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Old March 9th, 2013, 11:57 PM   #34 (permalink)
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When we consider that the sole function of the Bush-era TSA was to spread false fear among the traveling public, so that they would meekly comply with that administration's agenda of "big government-no personal liberties", I think that it's about time that the US' own Orwellian ministry for FUD-spreading backed down and got real.
This wasn't the “Bush-era TSA” that you're talking about. Although the TSA was created under the Bush administration, it was not until 2010 that the TSA began to engage in the truly outrageous practices involving the nude scanners, and sexual molestation of passengers, under the fraudulent guise of security. This development has happened, and continued, exclusively under the Obama administration.
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Old March 10th, 2013, 12:18 AM   #35 (permalink)
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It's almost a dark comedy... an absurdity.. It wasn't,t even a possibility in people's brains that hijackers would slaughter people with box cutters and crash jets into buildings 10 + years ago.. .. I mean really?? wt what... But now.. Its... a reality ... :/


Oh ...
and I can take someone out with nothing but a hair pin... And I would too...
if I had to

Wait...

What?

Never mind

Carry on
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Old March 10th, 2013, 11:23 PM   #36 (permalink)
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This wasn't the “Bush-era TSA” that you're talking about. Although the TSA was created under the Bush administration, it was not until 2010 that the TSA began to engage in the truly outrageous practices involving the nude scanners, and sexual molestation of passengers, under the fraudulent guise of security. This development has happened, and continued, exclusively under the Obama administration.
I do not accept your straw man argument because it is a straw man argument. And since you have nothing to say that addresses what I wrote before, I accept that it still stands as-is.
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Old March 20th, 2013, 12:32 AM   #37 (permalink)
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Do any of you really believe that 9/11 was carried out with box cutters? I would beat the living hell out of anyone who tried to attack me with a box cutter, and you're seriously not questioning the official narrative at all if you think an entire plane would stand down to some dudes walking around with box cutters.
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Old March 20th, 2013, 04:39 AM   #38 (permalink)
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I dont think its unbelievable at all...... you could hijack a plane with a plastic fork or a paperclip among many many other silly little items

I stand up behind the flight attendant and grab her from behind holding a box cutter to her throat....... you arent going to look my direction more than once if I threaten to slice her throat........ one move shes dead and you know that

youre going to let me do whatever I want...... no questions asked........ all I need is 20 seconds to get to the cockpit...... where my the crew is either going to also comply with my demands.... or my accomplices are going to remove them from the picture

which is exactly how I see what happened playing out

of course youre certainly entitled to see it happening in a differet manner........ some still believe it never happened... there are probably those still planning to see the towers on vacation

kungfu grip GIJoe or Jackie Chan neither one could have stopped them and neither could/would a normal person......... maybe Chuck Norris but he cant be on every plane
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Old March 20th, 2013, 06:17 AM   #39 (permalink)
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Rambo woulda stopped them.
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Old March 20th, 2013, 06:31 AM   #40 (permalink)
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Do any of you really believe that 9/11 was carried out with box cutters? I would beat the living hell out of anyone who tried to attack me with a box cutter, and you're seriously not questioning the official narrative at all if you think an entire plane would stand down to some dudes walking around with box cutters.
Well, given that the official narrative is consistent with the facts I don't see why not. You'd be surprised how few people are willing to challenge someone with a box cutter who has just slit the throat of a stewardess and you have to step over her dead body to get to him.
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Old March 20th, 2013, 06:51 AM   #41 (permalink)
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Do any of you really believe that 9/11 was carried out with box cutters? I would beat the living hell out of anyone who tried to attack me with a box cutter, and you're seriously not questioning the official narrative at all if you think an entire plane would stand down to some dudes walking around with box cutters.
I don't see any reason to question it.

You have to remember that no-one on those planes believed they were going to be crashed in to buildings. On the one plane where the passengers found out, they apparently resisted.

Before 9/11, if a plane was hijacked it was generally flown to an airport you weren't planning on visiting but other'n that, passengers were rarely actually hurt.

Standard OP was comply with hijacker's initial instructions and allow the security forces to take care of things once the plane was on the ground.

9/11 may not have changed everything, but it did change that.
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Old March 20th, 2013, 07:27 AM   #42 (permalink)
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I would direct "truthers" to this vid - Luke's Change: an Inside Job - YouTube

Please note the similarities in the arguments they use and the ones used by "truthers".
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Old March 20th, 2013, 07:32 AM   #43 (permalink)
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Unfortunately I can't access YouTube at the minute ..

What do you mean by 'truther'?
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Old March 20th, 2013, 09:32 AM   #44 (permalink)
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Lets agree to disagree. If you want to be safe travel by train.
If you really want to commit a terrorist attack you will figure a way. With or without knife.

You can take care of someone just by hitting them hard to the side of their head between an eye and ear.

We should send box of blue pills to TSA so they would be hard as a rock. No more softness. :-)
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Old March 20th, 2013, 09:41 AM   #45 (permalink)
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Lets agree to disagree
Where's the fun in that?!

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Old March 20th, 2013, 10:20 AM   #46 (permalink)
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Well, given that the official narrative is consistent with the facts I don't see why not. You'd be surprised how few people are willing to challenge someone with a box cutter who has just slit the throat of a stewardess and you have to step over her dead body to get to him.
Have you read the 9/11 commission report?

You need to keep in mind how many military members were aboard those flights. Myself being former military, I guarantee you that nobody would hold me hostage with a boxcutter.

Why was WTC Tower 7 intentionally detonated? When were those explosives placed, and why was it done on that day? Further, why did the news media report WTC 7 as having collapsed, when it was clearly in the camera's view, only to have it detonated several minutes later?

Why did Larry Silverstein take out such a large insurance policy on the WTC Complex in the weeks leading up to 9/11?

Why was Mayor Willie Brown of San Francisco told not to fly? What about John Ashcroft? Benjamin Netanyahu?

Why did the fires that were so hot that they could melt 47 steel frames to molten rock not burn paper passports and ID cards?

Why was the evidence of the attack (namely, the rubble and molten rock) removed from New York, when there was an opportunity to have a real investigation as to what brought those towers down? You have to remember that those towers were engineered to withstand a hit by a fully-loaded Boeing 707, which was the largest plane at the time.

If someone can explain to me, mathematically, the physics of a building collapsing at free-fall speed due to structural damage at the 95th story, I'll be satisfied. You're talking about 15 stories collapsing 94 stories at free fall speed, implying no resistance whatsoever. Again, show me how that is mathematically possible, and I will be happy.

The official narrative of that day is a well-constructed (rehearsed) lie with ridiculous holes in it.
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Old March 20th, 2013, 10:45 AM   #47 (permalink)
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A conspiracy theorist!

Excellent!

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Have you read the 9/11 commission report?
Nope.

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Originally Posted by remanifest View Post
Why was WTC Tower 7 intentionally detonated? When were those explosives placed, and why was it done on that day? Further, why did the news media report WTC 7 as having collapsed, when it was clearly in the camera's view, only to have it detonated several minutes later?
It wasn't blown up, the National Institute of Standards and Technology has conclusively proved the collapse was caused by fire.

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Why did Larry Silverstein take out such a large insurance policy on the WTC Complex in the weeks leading up to 9/11?
Because he only won the lease for WTC on July 24, i.e. in the weeks leading up to 9/11.

In other words, he would not have been able to insure WTC any earlier.

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Why was Mayor Willie Brown of San Francisco told not to fly?
There's no evidence he was.

Plus it doesn't make sense: he was due to fly from San Francisco so was in no danger. If the call was from someone with knowledge of the attacks, then they plainly didn't know very much.

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Why did the fires that were so hot that they could melt 47 steel frames to molten rock not burn paper passports and ID cards?
I'm no scientist, but paper does have a habit of floating away ..

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Why was the evidence of the attack (namely, the rubble and molten rock) removed from New York, when there was an opportunity to have a real investigation as to what brought those towers down?
Well, two things: first, the entire world saw the planes hit the towers so there wasn't any doubt about what brought the towers down (and there's still no doubt, BTW) and second, they spent weeks meticulously searching the rubble for remains, so they had plenty of time.

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You have to remember that those towers were engineered to withstand a hit by a fully-loaded Boeing 707, which was the largest plane at the time.
Clearly they weren't - QED.

Also, 747s went into service in 1970. The first of the twin towers wasn't built until 1972.

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If someone can explain to me, mathematically, the physics of a building collapsing at free-fall speed due to structural damage at the 95th story, I'll be satisfied. You're talking about 15 stories collapsing 94 stories at free fall speed, implying no resistance whatsoever. Again, show me how that is mathematically possible, and I will be happy.
You don't need math: if something is unsupported in will fall, accelerating until it's hits terminal velocity, aka free fall.

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The official narrative of that day is a well-constructed (rehearsed) lie with ridiculous holes in it.
So please point some out that don't take approximately 30 seconds of minimal research to totally refute.
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Old March 20th, 2013, 01:57 PM   #48 (permalink)
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I'll hate myself for doing this in the morning. Heck, I'll get a head start and hate myself now. Well, I would except I've already got a lot of self-loathing going on at the moment so I may have to put hating myself on the backburner and do it next week some time. I will hate myself though. Of that much I am sure.

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Have you read the 9/11 commission report?
Yes. As recently as a few months ago in fact as part of some research I was doing.

Quote:
You need to keep in mind how many military members were aboard those flights. Myself being former military, I guarantee you that nobody would hold me hostage with a boxcutter.
And there were no former military members on any other hijacked flights ever? Why would they assume their lives were in danger? As previously noted in every other plane hijacking the hijackers landed the plane somewhere and negotiated with authorities. Why would anyone think this was going to be any different?

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Why was WTC Tower 7 intentionally detonated? When were those explosives placed, and why was it done on that day? Further, why did the news media report WTC 7 as having collapsed, when it was clearly in the camera's view, only to have it detonated several minutes later?
It was not intentionally detonated. No explosives were placed. News media reports inaccurate crap all the time especially when a big story is happening and they're trying to scoop each other.

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Why did Larry Silverstein take out such a large insurance policy on the WTC Complex in the weeks leading up to 9/11?
Umm, because he owned it and it had been targeted by terrorists in the past and it was worth a large amount of money? Do you have insurance on your house? Why would you do such a thing unless you were planning to burn it down? You must be guilty of conspiracy to commit insurance fraud.

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Why was Mayor Willie Brown of San Francisco told not to fly? What about John Ashcroft? Benjamin Netanyahu?
They were not told not to fly. Nor were any of the others. Netanyahu wasn't even in the US. Why in the world would he be told not to fly?

Quote:
Why did the fires that were so hot that they could melt 47 steel frames to molten rock not burn paper passports and ID cards?
The fires didn't melt steel and no one except conspiracy theorists claims they did. Ever walked through a house fire? How did a fire that was hot enough to burn down a building leave things like pictures and family portraits behind in the rubble? Must be a conspiracy!!

Quote:
Why was the evidence of the attack (namely, the rubble and molten rock) removed from New York, when there was an opportunity to have a real investigation as to what brought those towers down? You have to remember that those towers were engineered to withstand a hit by a fully-loaded Boeing 707, which was the largest plane at the time.
Umm, cleanup efforts? In any case whether the towers were designed to withstand a hit from a fully loaded 707 or not is irrelevant (and debated quite hotly between NIST and the architects/builders of the tower). The towers did indeed withstand the hit of the 767s. The subsequent fires coupled with the damage from the planes is what brought them down.

Quote:
If someone can explain to me, mathematically, the physics of a building collapsing at free-fall speed due to structural damage at the 95th story, I'll be satisfied. You're talking about 15 stories collapsing 94 stories at free fall speed, implying no resistance whatsoever. Again, show me how that is mathematically possible, and I will be happy.

The official narrative of that day is a well-constructed (rehearsed) lie with ridiculous holes in it.
Who says they collapsed at free fall speed? And why wouldn't they? You realize that skyscrapers are possible because the vast majority of the building is air.
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Old March 20th, 2013, 03:39 PM   #49 (permalink)
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Do any of you really believe that 9/11 was carried out with box cutters? I would beat the living hell out of anyone who tried to attack me with a box cutter, and you're seriously not questioning the official narrative at all if you think an entire plane would stand down to some dudes walking around with box cutters.
Here is the thing, as they say.

Lots of people say what they would do if faced with something like an armed terrorist. Chances are, what you say you would do is likely not what you would actually do if faced with a serious issue thousands of feet in the air.

It matters very little because the next attack will be totally unexpected and we will start banning things left and right. We will toss tens of millions of dollars at protecting this next whatever.

Terrorists are not at all stupid
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Old March 21st, 2013, 04:32 AM   #50 (permalink)
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Terrorists are not at all stupid
Well, yes and no. They're certainly good at the cat and mouse game with security. Not so bright on the bigger picture stuff.

For example, Bin Laden had a personal fortune estimated to have been around $300 million in the mid-90s.

The total spend in the 96 US election was around $400 million.

With a little financial jiggery pokery - or by taking US citizenship, which he'd have easily gotten given the contacts his family had in all administrations - Bin Laden could have bought the president. With money to spare. The US system obliges it's politicians to be bought and paid for, so buy 'em!

Instead of blowing people up, he should have followed the supremely successful example of the Israeli / Jewish lobby and spent his $300 mil on ads and chicken dinners and he'd have had the US president eating out of his hand. Again, look at the Israeli example: the US is Israel's b*tch.

And it goes further: the Jewish lobby spends a few million dollars a year supporting politicians in the US. Israel gets $3 - or is it $4 - billion dollars a year in aide. If Bin Laden had spent his cash on lobbyists instead of Kalashnikovs, the places he purported to want to help would have gotten it back 10 fold.

Now tell me terrorists aren't dumb as bricks
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