Therese from the OotP called me just a short while ago. What she told me fits in with what RogersMary has informed us all that HTC is not releasing 1.6 to us.
She added a couple clarifications, to try to clear up some of the confusion. there are updates coming as mentioned by other Rogers reps they are just not Android 1.6, but rather small bug fixes etc..
The other clarification was that the misleading information from HTC that Rogers needed to request 1.6 was tracked down to one misinformed support agent at HTC and from now on all HTC support personnel have the correct information.
This is all very disappointing to me. Note sure what is next. Hassle HTC for months on end, or give up and root.
Interesting to read what is now (recently) posted on the HTC Support site
Quote:
Question: Can I upgrade my Rogers Magic device to Android 1.6?
Answer: HTC is not currently planning any Android 1.6 upgrades for Rogers Dream or Magic. Android 1.6 was only made available for “Google”-branded devices such as the G1. It is not available for HTC-branded products such as the Dream or Magic, which use Android 1.5. We believe that Android 1.5 is a stable and reliable software platform that delivers a terrific user experience
First of all, what made Rogers go the HTC branded route rather than Google branded route? I hope Rogers rethinks their strategy on the Google Branded vs. HTC branded route based on this information. If they are at all serious about customer service, they would go for the former option rather than the latter.
Secondly, HTC has made it abundantly clear that they are unwilling to provide 1.6 update to Magic/Dream. What is Rogers going to do about existing customers who invested their money into the Magic/Dream with the hopes of getting updated versions of the platform? Essentially customers like myself, will have to live with the fact that my phone will never be updated to use the new features or the other option would be for me to root the phone and install a after-market OS.
Third and most important. How will new customers, who are planning to get the Magic/Dream (which are priced at $79.99 and $49.99 respectively), be made aware of this situation before they invest their money into these devices? Will information be provided in a transparent manner to new customers?
Having said all this, I wonder if all this could've been avoided if expectations were clearly set from the beginning between Rogers and HTC around the branded vs. non-branded devices. Wonder if Google is aware of this blunder that has taken place between Rogers and HTC and if it would in anyway influence their decision to make sure that Nexus One is made available to us the less fortunate Magic/Dream Canadian users.
Hi All -- I've read through you comments and will try to address what I can as best as I can. If I miss something or you have additional questions/comments, I'll do what I can. To those who have been reaching out to me via twitter, I did commit to taking your feedback to the team and doing what I could to get the answers to what you needed. I will continue to do so, for this forum as well.
Regarding the comment from HTC that you need to put pressure on the carrier for updates: HTC has informed us that this reference can be traced to a single agent who was not fully aware of the situation. They have assured us that all call center and customer service agents have the correct information going forward.
You ask why a couple of Rogers reps told you we were reviewing an OS upgrade: Unfortunately, there has been some misinterpretation by our team. We are reviewing a few changes and enhancements, not an OS upgrade.
So, what are we currently testing?: Rogers and HTC have been working together and expect to be releasing updates to both Dream and Magic that will address issues and provide enhancements to the overall user experience.
In regards to supporting devices with OS upgrades: We ensure all upgrades go through exhaustive testing to make sure the phone and software are of the highest quality so that we can offer the best user experience for our customers. This includes full training for our Customer Care representatives. In this case, we are dependent on HTC making those updates available to us.
Future Phones? As our roster of Android phones increases, we will continue to work with the handset manufacturers to bring upgrades to the Canadian market, but ultimately, we cannot do so until they are provided to us by the manufacturer.
I will continue to engage with you all here. I’ll even check in over the weekend, though my response may be somewhat delayed as I try to get answers.
I have just registered here after finding this forum a few days ago. I just wanted to add my disappointment in not getting the 1.6 update.
I was in the process of deciding to buy a new phone with Rogers and it was between the bold 9700 and the magic. After seeing both phones I was pretty much sold on the magic. Now, after reading this thread over the last few days I'm not sure getting that phone now is a wise decision, for that matter because of Rogers handling of the situation I'm not even sure I want to bother getting the bold with them either. I think it might be time for me to start looking at the competition.
I have never been on contract as I don't really like being in a phone contract but this is one time I was willing to go into a 3 year term. I'm not sure now if there is any point to it if this is how Rogers treats their customers and doesn't provide the updates to phones they sell. This is not an HTC issue, this is a Rogers issue plain and simple.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mjschmidt
@jodds: That doesn't change the fact that we KNOW 1.6 is available and we KNOW it works on the Magic and the HTC.
Assuming that HTC made a mistake and they haven't yet made a 1.6 update for Rogers it doesn't change the fact that it's possible to made it.
Sorry, I'm not believing Rogers.
I don't want bug fixes. I WANT MY ONE-POINT-SIX!
It is very clearly here that we are not complaining about bugs. AFAIK, nobody does and why in the world that Rogers wants to put out a bug fix update? What we want is features and OS update so that we are able to run apps made for 1.6 and above. Is that not clear enough?
@jodds: That doesn't change the fact that we KNOW 1.6 is available and we KNOW it works on the Magic and the HTC.
Assuming that HTC made a mistake and they haven't yet made a 1.6 update for Rogers it doesn't change the fact that it's possible to made it.
Sorry, I'm not believing Rogers.
I don't want bug fixes. I WANT MY ONE-POINT-SIX!
Agreed. Didn't mean to imply that I believed her, just passing information along. This all does seem to me like a Rogers trying to sweep us under the rug situation.
Edit: To clarify I do believe that she believes what she told me. But I think she is misinformed.
Last edited by jdodds; December 18th, 2009 at 01:51 PM.
I will scan, obscure and post the letter later on today or tomorrow, I am going to be SUPER busy over the next few days so don't hold your breath on that, but you have my word I will do it.
I will obscure the numbers out of respect for Emil, not rogers. So far I have no proof that Emil has lied or mislead me in anyway so I will give him that respect. I always try to give people respect until they prove that they are not worthy of it.
Um, why should we hide the number again? was it out of respect for Rogers? Respect? Rogers doesn't know what respect is. I say, post the number and we can all call to complain.
Obviously, it was a question of money to Rogers:
Is the ire of some Android phone users greater than or less than the cost of the upgrade from HTC?
Answer (from Rogers): The cost from HTC is greater, therefore no upgrades for Rogers Android 1.5 users.
Unfortunately, they don't understand the real true cost of poor customer service!
Rogers, this is not how you should treat your customers. I bought a Magic smartphone one month ago, expecting service to go along with that smartphone.
I think people at Rogers still do not understand the difference between a cell phone and a smartphone. I would not expect an upgrade for a Motorola Flip phone; all I want to do with it is send and receive calls and a few text messages. A smart phone, however, is a small computer, and I expect to be provided the major upgrades that go along with it. Imagine if HP decided not to provide Vista SP1 to their customers... well this is exactly the same thing here. Android 1.6 is a major update, essential to run many of the newest applications.
I simply cannot believe that ONE MONTH after getting my phone, Rogers would voluntarily render it obsolete.
Mary from Rogers, please convey this message to the people at the top. I will try and find a way to cancel my contract with Rogers, and simply never return to Rogers if we can't get the service we deserve. You guys spend huge amounts of money to get as many people as possible to subscribe to your services, but Don't care about them once they've taken the bait.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RogersMary
So, what are we currently testing?: Rogers and HTC have been working together and expect to be releasing updates to both Dream and Magic that will address issues and provide enhancements to the overall user experience.
We don't want bug fixes and "enhancements" we want what 72% of Android users have... 1.6 or above! (see here: Rogers Dream 1.6 Update)
User Experience? You make me laugh, Mary. You talk about enhancing the user experience by leaving the user with an outdated OS. We are BEHIND everyone else. There are apps in the marketplace we will NEVER be able to use as long as we are stuck on 1.5
Quote:
Originally Posted by RogersMary
In regards to supporting devices with OS upgrades: We ensure all upgrades go through exhaustive testing to make sure the phone and software are of the highest quality so that we can offer the best user experience for our customers. This includes full training for our Customer Care representatives.
Pure BS, Mary. If this were true, if your "Customer Care" reps received full training, they would have understood the difference between an OS update (1.6) and bug fixes!!!! You frakked up!!!!
Quote:
Originally Posted by RogersMary
In this case, we are dependent on HTC making those updates available to us.
Then maybe _Rogers_ better lean on HTC to make the update. We KNOW it works on these phones, you can't tell us it doesn't, because other people already have it! There are currently people... in Canada... running 1.6 on "rooted" Rogers HTC Dreams and Magics. (In case your extensive Android training didn't cover it, rooting means to hack, something we didn't want to have to do, but will have to to get 1.6 now).
Quote:
Originally Posted by RogersMary
Future Phones? As our roster of Android phones increases, we will continue to work with the handset manufacturers to bring upgrades to the Canadian market, but ultimately, we cannot do so until they are provided to us by the manufacturer.
Future phones? Are you friggin kidding me? You think I will ever buy another product from Rogers after this? People might think I'm being extreme, but it comes down to this: I was sold a phone I was led to believe would be competitive with the iPhone, as advanced as any other smart phone, and which i could count on having _proper_ updates to in the future. I feel like i was swindled.
@RogersMary: Respectfully, doesn't Rogers understand that all we are asking for is an upgrade, whether it be 1.6 or 2.0 I don't care. I am sure I can speak for most of the people here that we have been dedicated Rogers customers. We are just asking for a little of the same. Offering us 1.6 or 2.0 upgrades along with perhaps a brief apology from Rogers for all the shenanigans can only be followed by applause and gratitude. Doesn't Rogers want that? Don't you think that by listening to the consumers, you know the ones that keep Rogers open, you can only increase dedication and word of mouth marketing. I can guarantee you that until this is resolved I am definitely not going to be speaking highly of Rogers hardware support, or even Rogers as a whole.
Whatever form the next (final?) update is, I would appreciate if there is a way for voice dialing. Maybe make a customized app if 1.6 is not going to be supported?
The reason is because of the laws required by some Canadian provinces and U.S. states that require hands-free calls. At this moment, I can use the bluetooth headset to receive phone calls. However, I can't use the bluetooth headset to make a voice dialing. If I do that, it opens the OS and I still need to touch the screen to input the number from the contact list.
How difficult is it really to add a voice dialing app? Even my old Nokia N95 could do that.
@RogersMary: I just thought of an idea that would make me happy. Seeing as Rogers is not willing to support HTC hardware to its full degree I want to be able to exchange my hardware to one of my choosing at no extra cost or contract renewal. I think it is only fair because now that I am locked into a 3 year contract with you I want supported hardware that will keep up with the times. Otherwise, give us the update, or I will simply fork out the money to break the contract and I will go to a different provider. Wind perhaps...
I agree with strevellick. Seeing as how rogers is abandoning us (well our phones, but you know what I mean) I want out of my contract! I as out and out lied to and I want out or I want an iPhone (because iPhones get updates). I of course want this for free, if rogers wants their HTC Dream back I will more than happily ship it back as part of the deal. I bought this phone on the good faith that rogers would support it, not make it obsolete 6 months after I get it.
I have again sent a tip to The Boy Genius Report with this new information. I think now that we have been told no, a media push will be more effective.
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I can't help but wonder, if, as according to Rogers, it's HTC who has decided not to create a 1.6 update for the Rogers HTC phones (thus making Rogers the poor victims in this), why would RogersMary bother asking us what it is about 1.6 we like, and why we want it?
Seems pretty simple to me: 1.6 exists, it's better than 1.5, it works on our phones, why wouldn't Rogers ask for it if it's possible to get it?
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As per conversation with Simon 2 weeks ago, he clearly said Rogers did not include firmware update as part of the agreement with HTC. Upgrade i should say not update. He said they will provide update for 1.5
Last edited by Andy2010; December 18th, 2009 at 02:51 PM.
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I say HTC should be blamed as well because they clearly know if they are going to sell their product without firmware upgrade, it is going to hurt their image.
I have just registered here after finding this forum a few days ago. I just wanted to add my disappointment in not getting the 1.6 update.
I was in the process of deciding to buy a new phone with Rogers and it was between the bold 9700 and the magic. After seeing both phones I was pretty much sold on the magic. Now, after reading this thread over the last few days I'm not sure getting that phone now is a wise decision, for that matter because of Rogers handling of the situation I'm not even sure I want to bother getting the bold with them either. I think it might be time for me to start looking at the competition.
I have never been on contract as I don't really like being in a phone contract but this is one time I was willing to go into a 3 year term. I'm not sure now if there is any point to it if this is how Rogers treats their customers and doesn't provide the updates to phones they sell. This is not an HTC issue, this is a Rogers issue plain and simple.
Hi. Three other things you should take into consideration before getting an Android phone from Rogers are the network speed, software updates and paid apps. I have the Magic and it is an amazing phone coming from the Blackberry especially the browser and integration with Google however the 3G network with "speeds up to 7mps" is total ********* here in Montreal at least. It NEVER goes above 1.4 and most of the time it's below 1. This makes absolutely no difference for email and things of that nature but for web browsing it's marginal.
Another problem is the lack of commitment from Rogers on keeping the phones up to date with Google software upgrades. The American providers are either doing it over-the-air now or are committed to doing it. Given that the best Android apps are out for either 1.6 or 2.0, it's a real shocker to me that Rogers keeps us at 1.5. It's a Google phone, Rogers not a Windows phone.
The third and final stinker is that here in Canada there is NO access to paid apps in the Android App Market. Granted there are many good free apps however this lack of acccess to the other half of the app store is, to me, inexcusable. There are conflicting reports on who is responsible for this App issue but the end result for us Rogers clients is the same.
And to think that I paid an early termination fee to Telus of $240 to switch to Rogers because of the Magic. Brian
I'm on hold with Rogers right now, trying to get out of my contract or a guaranteed no cost to me upgrade with first android phone with 2.x
gbd
Just got off of the phone. Was told best bet, If I had been in contact with someone from OotP was to try to do something through them. Since Mary is with OotP, I'll try her to see what she can do.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GreatBigDog
Just got off of the phone. Was told best bet, If I had been in contact with someone from OotP was to try to do something through them. Since Mary is with OotP, I'll try her to see what she can do.
I'm on hold with Rogers right now, trying to get out of my contract or a guaranteed no cost to me upgrade with first android phone with 2.x
gbd
I should do the same thing...or at least an iPhone. I am blaming both HTC and Rogers for this because it is unclear on who I need to throw my phone at.
I will be calling and getting out of my contract as well. i don't have time for this BS. I want what I was promised and I don't think that is to much to ask for.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GreatBigDog
Just got off of the phone. Was told best bet, If I had been in contact with someone from OotP was to try to do something through them. Since Mary is with OotP, I'll try her to see what she can do.
Email them through the contact form. Choose step 3 and demand to have someone call you or you will take it to the Ombudsperson (which should be the next step for all of us).
I just called Emil and left him a message asking that I either get a phone that rogers will continue to support going forward or to terminate my contract without penalty. I will update with the results when he calls me back. The times I have spoken to Emil directly he has called around 2000 EST.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bunhead
I just called Emil and left him a message asking that I either get a phone that rogers will continue to support going forward or to terminate my contract without penalty. I will update with the results when he calls me back. The times I have spoken to Emil directly he has called around 2000 EST.
Careful, according to this recent article, Rogers doesn't consider the early termination fee to be a "penalty".
Hi. Three other things you should take into consideration before getting an Android phone from Rogers are the network speed, software updates and paid apps. I have the Magic and it is an amazing phone coming from the Blackberry especially the browser and integration with Google however the 3G network with "speeds up to 7mps" is total ********* here in Montreal at least. It NEVER goes above 1.4 and most of the time it's below 1. This makes absolutely no difference for email and things of that nature but for web browsing it's marginal.
Another problem is the lack of commitment from Rogers on keeping the phones up to date with Google software upgrades. The American providers are either doing it over-the-air now or are committed to doing it. Given that the best Android apps are out for either 1.6 or 2.0, it's a real shocker to me that Rogers keeps us at 1.5. It's a Google phone, Rogers not a Windows phone.
The third and final stinker is that here in Canada there is NO access to paid apps in the Android App Market. Granted there are many good free apps however this lack of acccess to the other half of the app store is, to me, inexcusable. There are conflicting reports on who is responsible for this App issue but the end result for us Rogers clients is the same.
And to think that I paid an early termination fee to Telus of $240 to switch to Rogers because of the Magic. Brian
Thanks for the info. I was aware of the app market issue and of course the 1.6 issue from this forum (it's a great source of info for someone looking to buy and being fairly new to android phones).
Do you, or anyone else, know if the network speed is better with Bell or Telus? I wanted to stick with Rogers but right now that's up in the air and probably better to look at other options. Although now I know to ask the others if they will be offering updates on their android phones.
I just called Emil and left him a message asking that I either get a phone that rogers will continue to support going forward or to terminate my contract without penalty. I will update with the results when he calls me back. The times I have spoken to Emil directly he has called around 2000 EST.
I used the term "Early termination fee" not "penalty"
Sent my letter off to the OotP. Wish I had a number there that I could contact someone directly. Tried to be professional and courteous, hopefully that helps.
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Hi,
I have been reading the updates for the past couple of weeks and finally decided to sign up and get involved. Thanks to those trailblazing ahead!
I too have just started the Step 1 of the process with Rogers to initiate a complaint. I will await the "canned" response I expect to get and then go onto Step 2.
I wish I had a tiny microphone with me the day I was in the Rogers store buying my HTC Magic and the response I got when I asked if there would be OS updates to the phone...I know what I was told by the sales guy...
I really do enjoy the phone a lot but agree with everyone here that it is not unrealistic to expect "software" upgrades when I am going to be spending over $2500 + over the next 3 years of my contract with Rogers. (nto to mention the amount I spend for Cable, Internet and Home Phone...)
I agree with both "strevellick" and "bunhead" however, i would like to be able to terminate my contract without any penalty because Rogers failed to deliver their side of the contract. If this was their intent from beginning, it should've been clearly identified previously. Why should I pay for their mistake and/or misdirection?
@RogersMary - thanks for the reply. I hope you have noted the features included in 1.6 that are not available in our 1.5. ROGERS RELEASE OUR 1.6! The longer you hold off, the worse it will be in terms of customer retention going forward. I am informing all Rogers users of this lack of service.
How about access to the Paid Apps. feature. Is this something that we can expect?
This blame game is a joke. HTC/Rogers are both equally at fault.
I've owned this phone since ~august, I can't say I don't love it...as I really do. However, this recent news is unacceptable and I too would like to either terminate my 3 year contract without penalty or be given an upgrade through rogers to a phone that will be supported (i.e., iphone).
For those who have requested either of the above, please keep the forum updated with your progress.
I too would like my phone to be replaced "at no cost" by Rogers for something like an iPhone or BB Bold...you know something that gets regular updates from the manufacturer!
__________________
Rogers HTC Dream...still stuck on Android 1.5
I've owned this phone since ~august, I can't say I don't love it...as I really do. However, this recent news is unacceptable and I too would like to either terminate my 3 year contract without penalty or be given an upgrade through rogers to a phone that will be supported (i.e., iphone).
For those who have requested either of the above, please keep the forum updated with your progress.
regards,
Well, I own the LG Eve and am afraid that this is going to be the future for me as well. So, I have sent my request in to have my phone replaced. Don't get me wrong, I love this phone. But without any support, what is the point? Root it? Sell it?
In my email to Rogers I tried to explain to them that what we want is what Microsoft has been doing for years ie: "Automatic Microsoft Updates", keeping there software "up to date" whether it be small bug fixes or major OS updates. They got them to us without question.
We will see I guess.
Last edited by fugdup; December 18th, 2009 at 05:50 PM.
Someone mentioned gasoline? Let's add some more - SEE Below.
Time for some further attention to the ridiculous issue we have here. Here I was thinking Rogers was a serious company willing to place full commitment to their product and show their vision with their early support of one of the major mobile players (Android). I was wrong - Rogers is up to their sneaky ways again. I will be very hard to defend Rogers (and HTC) in the future.
I want out of my contract. I was led to believe that my phone (HTC Dream) would be supported with future OS upgrades. THAT WAS ONE OF THE SELLING POINTS. Now I hear that I am supposed to keep this phone for the next FOUR years and the OS is already at least one release out of date. My hats off to you ROGERS, what it took TELUS EIGHT years to do, to get me to switch to another carrier, you did in only FOUR months.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RogersMary
Regarding Google Maps Navigation, we would also love to see this Google service but it is not yet available in Canada. As for the other specific questions, I'll look in to it and report back what I can. May take a few days.
I gather that the issue with Google Navigation not being available in Canada is due to licencing restrictions on the mapping data provided to Google. With two of Roger's competitors now offering Android telephones, I'm sure that this licencing issue will be resolved soon. (Also, Google is working hard at making the next iPhone "killer" with their upcoming Nexus phone. I expect that Google will resolve this issue in time to sell this phone in Canada.)
Therefore, the future availability of Google Navigation in Canada will restricted to those phones running Android 1.6 and later. This is a very compelling reason to ensure that updates are available for HTC Magic (and Dream) phones.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fugdup
In my email to Rogers I tried to explain to them that what we want is what Microsoft has been doing for years ie: "Automatic Microsoft Updates", keeping there software "up to date" whether it be small bug fixes or major OS updates. They got them to us without question.
Microsoft also periodically rolls all these updates (along with new features) into service packs. These are critical updates that extend the life of the operating system. For example, there are many Windows XP applications that require SP2 (and will not run on earlier versions of Windows XP).
