Digg this to bring more attention to the issue. Bringing it to Digg's homepage should have the issue stick out like a sore thumb everywhere on the net.
Last edited by loconet; December 21st, 2009 at 01:15 PM.
@RogersMary: Seeing as most of the people here and elsewhere with the same issue, it may be advisable to post options for those that want to replace hardware. In addition, Rogers may want to rethink the no iPhone option.
They get their money either way. The main point is that if you're a soured customer, they probably want you gone.
...
Finally, there's always the option of rooting your phone.
This is not about me and this is not about workaround.
The problem is creditability.
How company can make business when it dumps client at the moment he purchased a phone?
Few years ago I bought a small switch (about 50 bucks) and I'm still receiving updates for this device. Guess what maker I'll choice for my next upgrade?
From Rogers (HTC, Google) I bought device that costs me about 500 bucks (this way or another) so I expect to be "first class citizen" but I'm not.
I'm working for IT company and I know how easy to lose creditability and how hard to gain it again.
One customer can reduce your sells, thousands customers could ruin your business, despite your size.
This is a snow ball: starts from one negative review, then people starting to put attention to small things, then another review, declining sells and eventually your lost you position and struggling to survive. See PALM - remember this company?
I afraid Google is not ready for selling any OS. The fact we cannot find any person (from Rogers, HTC or Google) who supports actually Android OS just support it.
I'm afraid Rogers is a start of snowball
Android is an open source phone OS right? Couldnt you technically download android 2.0 as if you were going to be a developer and use it on your say 2001 nokia brick phone. Then just install it on your htc? Im all for cutting rogers rope but i havent has a chance to lool into into it yet. Im guessing you would have to compile it but that wouldnt be very hard. It would also make things like tethering for laptop internet easier.
Android is an open source phone OS right? Couldnt you technically download android 2.0 as if you were going to be a developer and use it on your say 2001 nokia brick phone. Then just install it on your htc? Im all for cutting rogers rope but i havent has a chance to lool into into it yet. Im guessing you would have to compile it but that wouldnt be very hard. It would also make things like tethering for laptop internet easier.
Even if you could do that, that is not the point. We have been abandoned by Rogers. Why should we have to do anything accept go to a website and download an update. Isn't that the kind of support that should come with a carrier? If they are going to sell it...support the damn thing.
Keep up the good work on trying to get 1.6, but I might give up waiting for Rogers and just get another version as i'm on the Bell network anyways. To answer your question to "@pir8" here is what I did to get The HTC Magic on Bell.
1. You need to get your IMEI# , from the home screen press menu, go to settings and then go down to About Phone, then go to Status, when you scroll down you'll see the IMEI#
3. All you need to send to the guy on ebay is your IMEI# and he'll send you your unlock code usualy within 24hrs.
4. When you get the unlock code you will need a NON Rogers SIM card, once you boot the phone with a NON Rogers SIM card it will ask you an unlock code. Put the unlock code the guy gives you and then your unlocked. You can now use your Phone on Bell or Telus.
5. I already had a plan with Bell and it only cost me 5$ for a SIM card.
Last edited by suzukic90; December 21st, 2009 at 12:51 PM.
Keep up the good work on trying to get 1.6, but I might give up waiting for Rogers and just get another version as i'm on the Bell network anyways. To answer your question to "@pir8" here is what I did to get The HTC Magic on Bell.
1. You need to get your IMEI# , from the home screen press menu, go to settings and then go down to About Phone, then go to Status, when you scroll down you'll see the IMEI#
3. All you need to send to the guy on ebay is your IMEI# and he'll send you your unlock code usualy within 24hrs.
4. When you get the unlock code you will need a NON Rogers SIM card, once you boot the phone with a NON Rogers SIM card it will ask you an unlock code. Put the unlock code the guy gives you and then your unlocked. You can now use your Phone on Bell or Telus.
5. I already had a plan with Bell and it only cost me 5$ for a SIM card.
Whoops! Sorry about that suzukic90. Where/how can we buy Non-Rogers SIM cards? Sorry, rather new to this.
If you know anyone with TELUS or bell sim card, you can use that. I was lucky, I knew someone with a TELUS sin card. Also to answer your question about 3G, it works on the new HSPA which is faster then 3G.
class action lawsuit would be nice....i want my device supported properly,i wonder how many other handsets rogers is pulling this stuff with.I think this is worthy of a lawsuit.
Some more national exposure would be good also like CTV News,actionline,W5 or say CBC Marketplace considering they are doing a story on cell phone contracts this may be a nice piece to accompany it.
Maby execs from Google and HTC may find it interesting how their products are not being supported by the carrier.
When you launch a mobile platform like Android there are a certain set of responsibilties customers expect the carrier/manufacturer to perform. One of them, is firmware upgrades (not just big fixes).
Rogers saw this just as a quick money grab and brushed off the whole upgrade mess under the carpet. They had this planned from the beginning.
Look, Android devices and others are now being lumped together as "Web phones" $0.99 alternatives. They could care less about keeping us happy. Fact is, Rogers see us as second rate customers.
Under the freedom of information act i think we could problay get access to the documentation regarding their contract with HTC and see if they planned on pulling the wool over our eyes from the beginning.
Keep up the good work on trying to get 1.6, but I might give up waiting for Rogers and just get another version as i'm on the Bell network anyways. To answer your question to "@pir8" here is what I did to get The HTC Magic on Bell.
1. You need to get your IMEI# , from the home screen press menu, go to settings and then go down to About Phone, then go to Status, when you scroll down you'll see the IMEI#
3. All you need to send to the guy on ebay is your IMEI# and he'll send you your unlock code usualy within 24hrs.
4. When you get the unlock code you will need a NON Rogers SIM card, once you boot the phone with a NON Rogers SIM card it will ask you an unlock code. Put the unlock code the guy gives you and then your unlocked. You can now use your Phone on Bell or Telus.
5. I already had a plan with Bell and it only cost me 5$ for a SIM card.
I'm pretty sure you can just call Rogers and ask for the unlock code. I haven't tried it myself, but I don't think they're too secretive about that. I know most carriers in the US will give the code voluntarily if you ask. Just say you're going on a trip to Europe and would like to use your phone with a different SIM card for a while.
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Trying to get some media attention, I sent the following to Marketplace at CBC:
"In a similar vein to your other stories about the cell phone industry, there is a growing group of us who became early adopters of the new Android cell phones in Canada with Rogers, who are now being left with phones that are quickly becoming obsolete, though they were only purchased in July of 2009.
Android phones are like iPhones, they are really little computers that can make phone calls. Like the iPhone, users can download and install apps (applications). Just like the iPhone, or like your Windows computer, the Android phones use an Operating System (Android is made by Google). Google releases upgrades to the Android OS much like Microsoft releases updates to Windows. These upgrades provide more and better functionality for the phones.
At the moment, Rogers customers with the HTC Magic, HTC Dream, and LG Eve are stuck on version 1.5 of the operating system. Ver 1.6 was released at the beginning of October, and version 2.0 is coming out now. Even though owners of these phones in other countries (like the US) have already received this update to 1.6, Rogers customers have not.
A large group of us having been going back and forth with Rogers for the past month trying to get information about if/when we would receive the update. Though they initially said we would get it eventually, that changed to "we need to get it from HTC to test and Evaluate" to, most recently "HTC has no plans to make it".
We know that the update exists, and we know it works on these phones, because some people have already hacked their phones to use it. We can not confirm yet, but we believe that the only difference between the version of 1.6 released to other customers (like in the US) and the version that we would need is customization for Rogers. We don't know if Rogers is refusing to ask HTC for it (Pay for it?), but it seems highly dubious that HTC would refuse to give Rogers the update if no work was needed, since Rogers is their customer!
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So, I wrote to HTC Technical Support to ask them since we weren't getting 1.6 are they considering an upgrade to 2.0 instead (wanted to see what they would say) The first response I got (about 20 minutes later which was surprising) was the typical canned response:
"Thank you for contacting HTC!
We apologize for any issues you are experiencing with your HTC Rogers Magic and would be happy to assist. At this time HTC has not released any Android 2.0 upgrades for our devices. You may continue to check our device's support page at HTC.com and visit our self-help user's forum at HTCwiki.com to stay up to date. We do not have any timeline as to when or if the Android 2.0 releases will be available for the HTC Rogers Magic. Please continue to check the Rogers and HTC Canada websites for further updates.
Thank You,
HTC Email Support"
I then wrote back saying I didn't understand why we can't get this update in Canada when they got them in the U.S. and other parts of the world on basically the same phone. I got this response which was a new twist on things.
"Again, I do apologize for any inconvenience this issue has caused you. Android 1.6 was only made available for “Google”-branded devices such as the G1. It is not available for HTC-branded products such as the Dream or Magic, which use Android 1.5. We believe that Android 1.5 is a stable and reliable software platform that delivers a terrific user experience. To ensure we consistently deliver a great experience, HTC and Rogers will shortly be releasing updates to both Dream and Magic software that address a few issues and provide some enhancements. Please check the Rogers or HTC Canada websites for details.
I will be escalating this to the proper department.
Sincerely,
HTC Email Support"
So not sure what these updates are about... I do like the part in the middle about stability and delivering terrific user experience - I think we have heard this from many sources already - I have asked for specifics on the updates and am waiting to hear.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SouthofOttawa
So, I wrote to HTC Technical Support to ask them since we weren't getting 1.6 are they considering an upgrade to 2.0 instead (wanted to see what they would say) The first response I got (about 20 minutes later which was surprising) was the typical canned response:
"Thank you for contacting HTC!
We apologize for any issues you are experiencing with your HTC Rogers Magic and would be happy to assist. At this time HTC has not released any Android 2.0 upgrades for our devices. You may continue to check our device's support page at HTC.com and visit our self-help user's forum at HTCwiki.com to stay up to date. We do not have any timeline as to when or if the Android 2.0 releases will be available for the HTC Rogers Magic. Please continue to check the Rogers and HTC Canada websites for further updates.
Thank You,
HTC Email Support"
I then wrote back saying I didn't understand why we can't get this update in Canada when they got them in the U.S. and other parts of the world on basically the same phone. I got this response which was a new twist on things.
"Again, I do apologize for any inconvenience this issue has caused you. Android 1.6 was only made available for “Google”-branded devices such as the G1. It is not available for HTC-branded products such as the Dream or Magic, which use Android 1.5. We believe that Android 1.5 is a stable and reliable software platform that delivers a terrific user experience. To ensure we consistently deliver a great experience, HTC and Rogers will shortly be releasing updates to both Dream and Magic software that address a few issues and provide some enhancements. Please check the Rogers or HTC Canada websites for details.
I will be escalating this to the proper department.
Sincerely,
HTC Email Support"
So not sure what these updates are about... I do like the part in the middle about stability and delivering terrific user experience - I think we have heard this from many sources already - I have asked for specifics on the updates and am waiting to hear.
lol, you should ask them why do they sell HTC branded to Rogers.
Tried again, I'm not even sure how long I can keep the admins at Wikipedia from deleting the original IWantMyOne-Point-Six entry. The have it marked for quick deletion.
"Again, I do apologize for any inconvenience this issue has caused you. Android 1.6 was only made available for “Google”-branded devices such as the G1. It is not available for HTC-branded products such as the Dream or Magic"
In plain English it means: "Please don't buy HTC-branded devices because we don't care about our customers, if you want any support please buy 'Google' branded devices".
HTC, are you out of your mind? How can you say "we're not supporting devices bearing our logo"?
In plain English it means: "Please don't buy HTC-branded devices because we don't care about our customers, if you want any support please buy 'Google' branded devices".
HTC, are you out of your mind? How can you say "we're not supporting devices bearing our logo"?
I think they meant they do not support "Carrier-Branded" devices such as the ones being sold by Rogers. The ones Rogers sells essentially have a custom firmware (we get the bonus of having those lovely virtual space-wasters that are Rogers' own completely useless icons). My bet is that Rogers is supposed to foot the bill for upgrades beyond bugfixes on custom ROMs. HTC can't be supporting custom ROMS for every carrier that wants it. My guess is that Rogers saw it didn't make sense from a cost perspective and are only doing 1.5 updates now.
Bottom line is, Rogers put their stinky paws on the ROM and we are now paying for it.
Last edited by loconet; December 21st, 2009 at 03:05 PM.
I think this article from Android and Me says a lot. Seems like the only HTC phones getting a 2.x upgrade are the ones running Sense UI.
Basically, the way I see it, HTC has at least three different OS firmware "versions" to maintain. Firmware fore:
- Google branded phones (or "Google Experience" phones) such as the G1 and MyTouch 3G in the US.
- Sense UI phones, such as the Hero and the Droid Eris
- Other non-google/non-SenseUI phones such as Canadian HTC Magic and HTC Dream.
Seems to me like they will not upgrade those "Other" phones past 1.5. Also, they don't seem to be supporting the "Google Experience" phones anymore either, since they have yet to release 2.0 for them.
Instead, they are obviously focusing on Sense UI phones and releasing 2.1 for them in Q1 2010.
The real question is: Do they plan on releasing Sense UI on any other phones in the near future? Whether it be "Google Experience" phones, or "Other" phones...
Device(s): Nexus S
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SouthofOttawa
"Again, I do apologize for any inconvenience this issue has caused you. Android 1.6 was only made available for “Google”-branded devices such as the G1. It is not available for HTC-branded products such as the Dream or Magic, which use Android 1.5. We believe that Android 1.5 is a stable and reliable software platform that delivers a terrific user experience. To ensure we consistently deliver a great experience, HTC and Rogers will shortly be releasing updates to both Dream and Magic software that address a few issues and provide some enhancements. Please check the Rogers or HTC Canada websites for details.
I will be escalating this to the proper department.
Sincerely,
HTC Email Support"
So not sure what these updates are about... I do like the part in the middle about stability and delivering terrific user experience - I think we have heard this from many sources already - I have asked for specifics on the updates and am waiting to hear.
Sadly this isn't new news. :-( This is what they posted on their site on Thursday, the day of reckoning when Brian Szeto called me and Andy, and RogersMary posted the same info in the forum.
Personally, I believe what they really mean is, "we have no intention of releasing a _customized_ update, because Rogers hasn't requested that we make one."
We need to try to get confirmation of the following:
1. Who customized 1.5; Rogers or HTC?
2. Does Rogers have to pay HTC to get 1.6 customized?
3. Is it possible to get the "free" version to over-ride the customized Rogers version without rooting?
As for the "1.5 fixes", it doesn't matter what they are, if they aren't 1.6.
"Innovating in the open
Each member of the Open Handset Alliance is strongly committed to greater openness in the mobile ecosystem. Increased openness will enable everyone in our industry to innovate more rapidly and respond better to consumers' demands. Our first joint project as a new Alliance is Android™. Android was built from the ground up with the explicit goal to be the first open, complete, and free platform created specifically for mobile devices."
Does that mean that HTC as a member of OHA is committed to allow everybody to download free version of Android OS due "openness" of the project and cannot discriminate "HTC-branded" devices?
Last edited by Klenya; December 21st, 2009 at 03:25 PM.
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I asked RogersMary: @RogersMary _WHY_ won't HTC provide the upgrade. No one is saying, so we don't believe you. we know it works on these phones.
She replied: RogersMary @IWMOPS According to them, they feel that the 1.5 is a stable, reliable platform.
So I countered with: @RogersMary That's a BS answer If that were really the reason NO ONE would get it, but US owners got it. How about helping us get the truth?
I mean, really, if HTC felt that 1.6 was unnecessary because it is "so stable", then why did they release 1.6 to their US customers? and if 1.5 is so stable, why are they working on big fixes and enhancements?
Rogers uses a branded version of android. Thats why we haven't received it yet. The software is changed and in a few ways restricted. Thats why theres no onscreen keyboard on rogers htc dreams. Its easy enough to re-add but the rogers version of android doesn't have it.
So when 1.6 came out rogers techs would have to go through the entire OS and create a new branded version for rogers. Now 2.0 is coming out right away which means its time to start again. Thats probably why they are waiting for 2.0 It makes economic sense.
Now the problem. I don't want Rogers standing over my shoulder saying what I can and can't do with service I pay for. Thats why I would say using a fresh copy of android would be a better solution. Rogers won't listen unless theres a mass uproar thats organized. No large company will. The media wont give you attention unless theres a community push.
If you really want to get Rogers attention I would suggest an online petition or anti android rogers service group on facebook. Then get the media to ride the bandwagon.
I think they meant they do not support "Carrier-Branded" devices such as the ones being sold by Rogers. The ones Rogers sells essentially have a custom firmware (we get the bonus of having those lovely virtual space-wasters that are Rogers' own completely useless icons). My bet is that Rogers is supposed to foot the bill for upgrades beyond bugfixes on custom ROMs. HTC can't be supporting custom ROMS for every carrier that wants it. My guess is that Rogers saw it didn't make sense from a cost perspective and are only doing 1.5 updates now.
Bottom line is, Rogers put their stinky paws on the ROM and we are now paying for it.
I don't think you can complain to CRTC. Unless the software is causing the line to drop or something yeah but firmware update is up to the Carrier.
Actually, there are problems with OS 1.5 which cause random dropped calls. I am experiencing this ALL THE TIME.
Sometimes, the loss of signal is gone until I restart the phone!
This Roger's HTC Magic is barely functional as a phone and I am really surprised that others (in this forum) are not complaining about this issue.
Furthermore, many of the productivity apps I use, are no longer available for updates because they are flagged as OS 1.6 or better. This is becoming worse as OS 1.5 becomes more obsolete.
When I purchased this phone, I was promised by Rogers staff that this would not be the same situation as with my previous HTC Touch Windows Mobile; The Windows Mobile update was available from every other carrier EXCEPT Rogers! Knowing that OS 1.5 had problems, I was assured that they would update the OS on a timely basis! Clearly, this was a lie. More importantly and revealing would be to find out if this was it part of their sales training in order to sell more Android phones? Let's investigate this!
And please feel free to post your Android bug/issue reports in this forum.
BTW, I've been through technical support and the office of the president.... it resulted in nothing but frustration on my part. Forget about Rogers updates, give it up, just do your own update or get an iPhone. It is futile expecting Rogers to change, and if you think the other carriers CARE MORE, you are wrong! They are all cut from the same monopoly cloth!
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chrisyak
would it be possible just to download a 1.6 update or 2.0 from T-Mobile?
No you cannot use T-mobile update file. SPL is different. In order to get 1.6. you have to use cyanogen for Rogers SPL. First you have to root your phone then install Cyanogen. Now if you root your phone, Rogers will void your phone warranty.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Trenchant
If you really want to get Rogers attention I would suggest an online petition or anti android rogers service group on facebook. Then get the media to ride the bandwagon.
@Trenchant: See my sig below. Also, see Big Dog's sig for more. We are on multiple blogs, Twitter, Facebook, and all sorts of forums. We intend to talk about this so much that consumers researching Rogers HTC Magic and HTC Dream, or Rogers Android in general, can't help but find us!
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sconnelly
Forget about Rogers updates, give it up, just do your own update or get an iPhone. It is futile expecting Rogers to change, and if you think the other carriers CARE MORE, you are wrong! They are all cut from the same monopoly cloth!
@sconnelly: Even if Rogers NEVER gives us 1.6, we won't give up because we want to make sure that any consumers thinking about buying a Rogers Android phone knows what's going on so they can make an informed decision, especially since as early as last Friday night (Dec 18) store clerks were telling people (me specifically) that if we bought a Magic now, we could get 1.6 in the new year.
No service in the B.C. interior - even though their maps show available service!
Quote:
Originally Posted by bunhead
That is me . I have several emails into support asking why we can't get the new version of android when iPhones get regular updates. I am also complaining about the poor 3g coverage we get in Ottawa. The phone says that it is in 3g mode with full signal but as soon as ANY data tries to go through the phone it drops down to H. This happens with my Dream, my Treo 750 as well as all my friends that have iPhones. I am also going down the dark and scary path of how come the cell service is non-existent between Ottawa and Toronto when I am on the train, even though the coverage map says that it is covered. If I can get out of my rogers contract without a penalty I will. I will cancel my cell, Internet and television contract with them, it may not be much to them but it is $200 of my dollars a month that they will never see again.
I believe I have a way out of our contracts (my wife and myself) because when I purchased my wife's contract, Rogers had planned to provide full coverage from Chilliwack to Merritt; 7 years later there are still many areas 50km or more of NO SERVICE! This is B.S.!
My wife was recently in a serious accident in one of these many blacked out areas (that their coverage map lies about). I am pissed off that she could have died (and worried about her future safety), that I am ready to go with Telus! I am talking with a legal representative in the new year about the potential canceling our contracts, without penalty.
You may be asking, how are we both under contract after 7 years? Easy, Rogers will restart your 3 yr contract anytime you change your plan! This really should be illegal but they do it and get away with it!
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sconnelly
I believe I have a way out of our contracts (my wife and myself) because when I purchased my wife's contract, Rogers had planned to provide full coverage from Chilliwack to Merritt; 7 years later there are still many areas 50km or more of NO SERVICE! This is B.S.!
My wife was recently in a serious accident in one of these many blacked out areas (that their coverage map lies about). I am pissed off that she could have died (and worried about her future safety), that I am ready to go with Telus! I am talking with a legal representative in the new year about the potential canceling our contracts, without penalty.
You may be asking, how are we both under contract after 7 years? Easy, Rogers will restart your 3 yr contract anytime you change your plan! This really should be illegal but they do it and get away with it!
changing plan does not lock your contract. Only the device are being locked. Unless you renew and get a new handset. When they say they lock your plan for 3 yrs, it means you are guarantee to have the same rate for 3 yrs even if Rogers changes their price.
Last edited by Andy2010; December 21st, 2009 at 04:01 PM.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SouthofOttawa
Android 1.6 was only made available for “Google”-branded devices such as the G1. It is not available for HTC-branded products such as the Dream or Magic, which use Android 1.5.
would it be possible just to download a 1.6 update or 2.0 from T-Mobile?
Unfortunately this won't work because again HTC and Rogers in their infinite wisdom decided to make the Canadian version of the phone different from the US version. It it were that easy trust me I would have done it
The only way it would be possible is if Rogers allowed HTC to upgrade the phones with a standardized Android ROM, much like T-Mobile and Verizon run on theirs.
BTW as a side note for those who aren't following it, the petition is now up to 144 signatures with an amazing 77 just added today!!
I figure if we hit the 200 mark it would be a good time to pass it along to the media, unless you all want to hold out for more signatures?
__________________
Rogers HTC Dream...still stuck on Android 1.5
. I have several emails into support asking why we can't get the new version of android when iPhones get regular updates. I am also complaining about the poor 3g coverage we get in Ottawa. The phone says that it is in 3g mode with full signal but as soon as ANY data tries to go through the phone it drops down to H. This happens with my Dream, my Treo 750 as well as all my friends that have iPhones. I am also going down the dark and scary path of how come the cell service is non-existent between Ottawa and Toronto when I am on the train, even though the coverage map says that it is covered. If I can get out of my rogers contract without a penalty I will. I will cancel my cell, Internet and television contract with them, it may not be much to them but it is $200 of my dollars a month that they will never see again.
