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Old December 21st, 2009, 03:07 PM   #751 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by mjschmidt View Post
1. Who customized 1.5; Rogers or HTC?
Don't know.

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Originally Posted by mjschmidt View Post
2. Does Rogers have to pay HTC to get 1.6 customized?
Don't know, but all there is in the ROM that is "Rogers" is desktop wallpapers and a couple of annoying apps that are not even apps but rather wrapped web links. Once you root you can delete them.

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3. Is it possible to get the "free" version to over-ride the customized Rogers version without rooting?
Theoretically. Practically you have to root to get on the phone a recovery image that lets you install new ROM. Rogers phone has recovery image that doesn't let you do it. Once you install the one that does let you do it, when you boot to Rogers ROM afterwords, Rogers ROM will overwrite your recovery image with their stinky one. You are at square one.

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Old December 21st, 2009, 03:08 PM   #752 (permalink)
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Well is very disappointing situation we are in.Rooting a phone is major hassle and pain and also potential to brick.My friend tried to root his and the steps where way above his head and overwhelming and rogers branded HTC dream is not a fool proof root.Yes many people have done it and i envy them.Still this is only for people that feel comfortable with this hack and is not a viable solution for most owners.I believe that this issue is bigger just then Rogers but they are the ones to start with.
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Old December 21st, 2009, 03:08 PM   #753 (permalink)
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Default Please go out and record the rogers android sales pitch!

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Originally Posted by mjschmidt View Post
@sconnelly: Even if Rogers NEVER gives us 1.6, we won't give up because we want to make sure that any consumers thinking about buying a Rogers Android phone knows what's going on so they can make an informed decision, especially since as early as last Friday night (Dec 18) store clerks were telling people (me specifically) that if we bought a Magic now, we could get 1.6 in the new year.
Funny, you should say this because I am planning to get this sales pitch recorded.

Because this was the SAME sales pitch that sold me on the Android back in June 2009.

Let's get this recorded! Because, in a response to an email I sent to Rogers, they claimed that I was lying (in a polite way) that no sales person would or should have told me that an OS update was planned and that there policy was to update the Android phones at a similar frequency as the iPhone updates.

I believe that their sales people are specifically instructed to lie about this.... so I am going to get this recorded!

Please do so as well and then we should share these sales pitches with everyone!

Be careful how you do so... however, do tip them off that you are trying to catch them in a lie.

Steps:
1. Go in pretending to know only just little bit about the Android. Enough to make Android to iPhone comparisons..
2. Innocently ask questions... that you heard you can buy apps just like the iPhone...
3. Are OS updates available just like the iPhone?
4. Basically convince them that you want an iPhone alternative.
5. Use your imagination but be sure to capture some sound bite lies.
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Old December 21st, 2009, 03:11 PM   #754 (permalink)
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would it be possible just to download a 1.6 update or 2.0 from T-Mobile?
Nope, and don't try this at home!
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Old December 21st, 2009, 03:13 PM   #755 (permalink)
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Funny, you should say this because I am planning to get this sales pitch recorded.

Because this was the SAME sales pitch that sold me on the Android back in June 2009.

Let's get this recorded! Because, in a response to an email I sent to Rogers, they claimed that I was lying (in a polite way) that no sales person would or should have told me that an OS update was planned and that there policy was to update the Android phones at a similar frequency as the iPhone updates.

I believe that their sales people are specifically instructed to lie about this.... so I am going to get this recorded!

Please do so as well and then we should share these sales pitches with everyone!

Be careful how you do so... however, do tip them off that you are trying to catch them in a lie.

Steps:
1. Go in pretending to know only just little bit about the Android. Enough to make Android to iPhone comparisons..
2. Innocently ask questions... that you heard you can buy apps just like the iPhone...
3. Are OS updates available just like the iPhone?
4. Basically convince them that you want an iPhone alternative.
5. Use your imagination but be sure to capture some sound bite lies.
getting more then 1 or 2 sales people caught in this lie is key or they will just say it was salesment mistakes and employee was corrected like earlier comments....lol....
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Old December 21st, 2009, 03:13 PM   #756 (permalink)
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Bottom line is, even if you root your phone, 1.6 is as high as you can go.
This is too early to say. Cyan is porting quite a bit of Eclaire code to his ROM.
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Old December 21st, 2009, 03:15 PM   #757 (permalink)
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This is too early to say. Cyan is porting quite a bit of Eclaire code to his ROM.
I mean for now.
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Old December 21st, 2009, 03:15 PM   #758 (permalink)
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I've called a litigation lawyer.
He is interested to take the case with a % percentage.
However he requires a $2000 retainer fee.

Could you please make calls and try fining a lawyer with no retainer fees!

Here is a list of lawyers in Toronto

Please call...

Not likely. First I would want to know more about this lawyer. If we can find a well respected lawyer who will give us an HONEST assessment of our chances of winning, I think the retainer costs would be rather low between enough disgruntle owners. At $2000, this might cost us $20 each (assuming 100 customers - which isn't near enough complaints for a class action).


What do I want out of this?

- The ability to cancel my contracts (2) without penalty. In general, I am sick of Android for more than just the serious failings of Rogers. Although, to be honest, I have no idea how improved the Android experience would be with OS 1.6. Overall, I just feel seriously mislead by Rogers.
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Old December 21st, 2009, 03:16 PM   #759 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by sconnelly View Post
Funny, you should say this because I am planning to get this sales pitch recorded.

Because this was the SAME sales pitch that sold me on the Android back in June 2009.

Let's get this recorded! Because, in a response to an email I sent to Rogers, they claimed that I was lying (in a polite way) that no sales person would or should have told me that an OS update was planned and that there policy was to update the Android phones at a similar frequency as the iPhone updates.

I believe that their sales people are specifically instructed to lie about this.... so I am going to get this recorded!

Please do so as well and then we should share these sales pitches with everyone!

Be careful how you do so... however, do tip them off that you are trying to catch them in a lie.

Steps:
1. Go in pretending to know only just little bit about the Android. Enough to make Android to iPhone comparisons..
2. Innocently ask questions... that you heard you can buy apps just like the iPhone...
3. Are OS updates available just like the iPhone?
4. Basically convince them that you want an iPhone alternative.
5. Use your imagination but be sure to capture some sound bite lies.
This is mildly illegal.
I would rather try to get it in writing. Prepare your own letter and have a store mgr to sign it.
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Old December 21st, 2009, 03:17 PM   #760 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mjschmidt
1. Who customized 1.5; Rogers or HTC?


According to HTC, they claimed that Rogers wanted it. I mean it is very clearly that HTC are not doing the same thing to T-mobile , Verizon, etc..
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Old December 21st, 2009, 03:22 PM   #761 (permalink)
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This is mildly illegal.
How so?
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Old December 21st, 2009, 03:24 PM   #762 (permalink)
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How so?
Call Rogers or your Bank. What is the first thing after the choice of language they tell you?

Ask your lawyer about it.

Plus, they will tell you that you have recorded it with your friend...
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Old December 21st, 2009, 03:26 PM   #763 (permalink)
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How so?
I think the clerk would need to sign a waiver stating that they knew they were being recorded, otherwise it could be considered a violation of their rights....you know how lawyers are, they would do anything to find fault in something.
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Old December 21st, 2009, 03:27 PM   #764 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gnugu View Post
Call Rogers or your Bank. What is the first thing after the choice of language they tell you?
...
That the phone call may be monitored for quality purposes? Is that what you are referring to?

Quote:
Originally Posted by TinBasher77 View Post
I think the clerk would need to sign a waiver stating that they knew they were being recorded, otherwise it could be considered a violation of their rights....you know how lawyers are, they would do anything to find fault in something.

Only one party needs to be aware of the recording.

http://www.efc.ca/pages/law/cc/cc.183.1.html
http://answers.google.com/answers/threadview?id=320423
http://laws.justice.gc.ca/eng/C-46/page-5.html#codese:183_1
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Old December 21st, 2009, 03:28 PM   #765 (permalink)
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That the phone call may be monitored for quality purposes? Is that what you are referring to?
Yes!
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Old December 21st, 2009, 03:30 PM   #766 (permalink)
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Yes!
Sorry, I'm missing something. What does the fact that they record the call have to do with my original question? How is me recording my call with a sales rep "mildly illegal"?
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Old December 21st, 2009, 03:32 PM   #767 (permalink)
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BTW as a side note for those who aren't following it, the petition is now up to 144 signatures with an amazing 77 just added today!!

I figure if we hit the 200 mark it would be a good time to pass it along to the media, unless you all want to hold out for more signatures?
Does that 144 take in to account the Anonymous ones that don't include any comments? We can't really count those ones, because no one else will.
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Old December 21st, 2009, 03:32 PM   #768 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by loconet View Post
That the phone call may be monitored for quality purposes? Is that what you are referring to?




Only one party needs to be aware of the recording.

183.1 CONSENT TO INTERCEPTION
Google Answers: Recording calls in Ontario, Canada
Criminal Code

Nice work! You win .
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Old December 21st, 2009, 03:33 PM   #769 (permalink)
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Sorry, I'm missing something. What does the fact that they record the call have to do with my original question? How is me recording my call with a sales rep "mildly illegal"?
Straight from the horses mouth..."In Canada it is technically illegal to record a private conversation
with another person, unless, of course, the other person consents."
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Old December 21st, 2009, 03:33 PM   #770 (permalink)
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Here's how i see this. HTC could care less about Canadians and Rogers for bringing in Android is a failure. I can guarantee you that I will never ever going to buy a HTC product.
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Old December 21st, 2009, 03:33 PM   #771 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by loconet View Post
Sorry, I'm missing something. What does the fact that they record the call have to do with my original question? How is me recording my call with a sales rep "mildly illegal"?
I thought that both parties needed to be aware of the recording.

You proved me wrong!
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Old December 21st, 2009, 03:38 PM   #772 (permalink)
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CBC News: Marketplace | Canada's Investigative Consumer Show
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Old December 21st, 2009, 03:39 PM   #773 (permalink)
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I think the clerk would need to sign a waiver stating that they knew they were being recorded, otherwise it could be considered a violation of their rights....you know how lawyers are, they would do anything to find fault in something.
Forget waivers. CBC does this all the time with their "Hidden camera" reports. Get it on _film_ in a store with a hidden camera. There can be no breech of privacy if there is no _expectation_ of privacy, like when you are in a store full of people.
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Old December 21st, 2009, 03:40 PM   #774 (permalink)
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Already done. See here: Rogers Dream 1.6 Update
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Old December 21st, 2009, 03:41 PM   #775 (permalink)
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Straight from the horses mouth..."In Canada it is technically illegal to record a private conversation
with another person, unless, of course, the other person consents."
What horse is that? Stop listening to horses

Only one person needs to be aware of the recording.
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Old December 21st, 2009, 03:42 PM   #776 (permalink)
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What horse is that? Stop listening to horses

Only one person needs to be aware of the recording.
LMAO! Fine I'm done with this topic
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Old December 21st, 2009, 03:42 PM   #777 (permalink)
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I thought that both parties needed to be aware of the recording.

You proved me wrong!
I would think that, if you call Rogers, and _their_ system warns you that the call will be recorded, you would not have to inform them that _you_ are also recording the call since all parties to the call already know that _a_ recording is being made, so there is no expectation of privacy.

But we're getting off topic. ;-)

I told @RogersMary about my experience. She didn't say I was a liar, instead she apparently told someone and told me via Twitter that the stpre was called and told not to say it. I'd be interested in seeing if they are still doing it anyway.
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Old December 21st, 2009, 03:46 PM   #778 (permalink)
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Does that 144 take in to account the Anonymous ones that don't include any comments? We can't really count those ones, because no one else will.
Don't get upset, I'm on your side but perhaps we are seeing the root of the problem here. 144 signatures... let's double it or triple it, still an insignificant number. There just aren't enough Rogers Android users. Even 10x that amount is nothing. They probably sell that many iPhones a day. Perhaps the next wave of phones will make the numbers climb like they did with the Droid in the US. For now, we are singing in the wilderness
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Old December 21st, 2009, 03:46 PM   #779 (permalink)
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This is mildly illegal.
I would rather try to get it in writing. Prepare your own letter and have a store mgr to sign it.
No... not in Canada!

As long as one party is aware of the recording, all is legal... and thank goodness for that.

It is only illegal in a few states and districts (one being -ironically- Washington D.C.).
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Old December 21st, 2009, 03:49 PM   #780 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by bgoody View Post
Don't get upset, I'm on your side but perhaps we are seeing the root of the problem here. 144 signatures... let's double it or triple it, still an insignificant number. There just aren't enough Rogers Android users. Even 10x that amount is nothing. They probably sell that many iPhones a day. Perhaps the next wave of phones will make the numbers climb like they did with the Droid in the US. For now, we are singing in the wilderness

A valid point I'm afraid
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Old December 21st, 2009, 03:59 PM   #781 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by bgoody View Post
Don't get upset, I'm on your side but perhaps we are seeing the root of the problem here. 144 signatures... let's double it or triple it, still an insignificant number. There just aren't enough Rogers Android users. Even 10x that amount is nothing. They probably sell that many iPhones a day. Perhaps the next wave of phones will make the numbers climb like they did with the Droid in the US. For now, we are singing in the wilderness
Yup, that's what I'm afraid of as well. However, we are a very vocal few.

Who I *really* would like to take note of this mess is the Open Handset Alliance and Google. This whole debacle goes against the "spirit" of their project, if this how one of Canada's biggest carrier and one OHA's own members is going to do business then they have big problems.
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Old December 21st, 2009, 03:59 PM   #782 (permalink)
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we need better organization to get this message out their..... I Want My One Point Six - Demanding Android 1.6 for our Rogers HTC Magic & Dream, and LG Eve Phones is up and running and is good place to promote and get the message out their......i have fired off a letters to some editors of the cell phone websites looking for more support for them and using this forum as a good starting point for updates......we keep spreading the word to anyone who will listen and work on the media we will get the results we want.
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Old December 21st, 2009, 04:20 PM   #783 (permalink)
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why don't we all call and say there i shit load of errors with the phones.
they run slow. phone keeps crashing and that there is a problem with the OS.
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Old December 21st, 2009, 04:41 PM   #784 (permalink)
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Word on the street is that Roger's My Account App for Android has been delayed because it requires 1.6?
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Old December 21st, 2009, 04:51 PM   #785 (permalink)
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Earlier today I wrote HTC to ask about the possibility of upgrading Rogers-branded Android phones to Sense UI. Here is the canned answer I got. Similar to the one about 1.6.

Quote:
Thank you for your inquiry regarding release of the HTC Sense User Interface (U/I) to existing devices such as the Magic and the Dream.

I understand how important it is to have the latest updates for your device.

The HTC Sense U/I was only made available for Google-branded devices. It is not available for HTC-branded devices such as the HTC Dream and HTC Magic from Rogers.

We apologize for any inconvenience you may have experienced.
So there you have it. Basically, HTC does not support the carrier-branded phones.

Does anybody know if Telus's Hero has a Google logo on it? Or is it "Telus-branded"?

EDIT: Nevermind, I just found the answer. Telus's Hero is not Google-branded, so I suppose they won't make the 2.1 upgrade available to them either. The issue is definitely more with HTC than with Rogers.
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Old December 21st, 2009, 05:10 PM   #786 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by RatTub View Post
The issue is definitely more with HTC than with Rogers.
Is it thought? If Rogers/Telus requested HTC to create a custom ROM for them, is it realistic to expect HTC to support (perpetually) upgrades to those custom ROMs as well? Imagine all carriers in the world having a deal like that.. HTC would lose some serious $. HTC probably gave Rogers the choice - if you want a custom ROM, we will only provide you with base release updates (ie. bugfixes) - if you want anything beyond that, you need to pay for development, testing, deployment, etc.

Buying a phone from the carrier is nothing but headaches. This whole Android thing is doomed in Canada unless the Nexus is real and can be used here.
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Old December 21st, 2009, 05:20 PM   #787 (permalink)
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The thing is.. I don't think HTC is making upgrades available to any carriers that don't have Google-branded phones.

As they have said before, the line about Rogers needing to ask for an upgrade, wasn't true (and made up?) by an HTC employee. Whether Rogers asks for it or not, I don't believe HTV can do anything about it.
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Old December 21st, 2009, 05:22 PM   #788 (permalink)
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so HTC are making phones that can't be upgraded then?somebody has to be able to upgrade the phones...these guys are passing the buck around...time to get to the bottom of this or i will never buy a android again unless google branded and once word hits the street about other phones having the same problem it could be a huge problem......other companies have made the 1.6 available.....so whats the deal.....
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Old December 21st, 2009, 05:30 PM   #789 (permalink)
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Making deals like that with Rogers and other carriers is like HTC driving the nails home in the ol' coffin. They will never compete with Apple or Rim if they keep this kind of crap up.
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Old December 21st, 2009, 05:37 PM   #790 (permalink)
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This is what HTC says

I understand the desire to have the most up to date operating system for your device. It is at the discretion of Rogers as to when, or even if, updates to Android 2.0 or 2.1 will be made available for devices branded to their network. If they do wish for such an update to be created, our development department must work with Rogers in order to tailor the update to their specific desires and needs. At this time we do not have any information as to when or even if such an update will be made available in the future for Rogers branded devices.

If you have any further questions or concerns, please contact us again or check HTC Smartphone Wiki - HTC as well. We also invite you to participate in our feedback survey at survey.htc.com/worldwide. We enjoy getting feedback from our customers and look forward to hearing from you.

Then I asked

Reply Time Replier Comment Attachment
2009/12/22 06:26 Andrew So tell me what can we do as a consumer in order to get 1.6 or 2.0 update?  
2009/12/22 06:23 Andrew Doesn't that makes the phone sound like obsolete? If i just want a working phone. I would have got a normal flip phone instead of a smartphone.  
2009/12/22 06:22 Andrew Doesn't that makes the phone sound like obsolete? If i just want a working phone. I would have got a normal flip phone instead of a smartphone.  
2009/12/22 06:21 Andrew Is that mean that we won't get to enjoy any apps that are written for 1.6 and above or the features that comes with 1.6 or 2.0 or even 2.1?

Hello Andrew,

What this means is that you will only have access to features and applications designed for use with the Android 1.5 operating system. As for what you can do to get 1.6 or 2.0 for your device, you and others will need to express your interest in such updates to Rogers and persuade them to request that we develope such updates.

If you have any further questions or concerns, please contact us again or check HTC Smartphone Wiki - HTC as well. We also invite you to participate in our feedback survey at survey.htc.com/worldwide. We enjoy getting feedback from our customers and look forward to hearing from you.

Best regards,
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Old December 21st, 2009, 05:41 PM   #791 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Andy2010 View Post
This is what HTC says

I understand the desire to have the most up to date operating system for your device. It is at the discretion of Rogers as to when, or even if, updates to Android 2.0 or 2.1 will be made available for devices branded to their network. If they do wish for such an update to be created, our development department must work with Rogers in order to tailor the update to their specific desires and needs. At this time we do not have any information as to when or even if such an update will be made available in the future for Rogers branded devices.

If you have any further questions or concerns, please contact us again or check HTC Smartphone Wiki - HTC as well. We also invite you to participate in our feedback survey at survey.htc.com/worldwide. We enjoy getting feedback from our customers and look forward to hearing from you.

Then I asked

Reply Time Replier Comment Attachment
2009/12/22 06:26 Andrew So tell me what can we do as a consumer in order to get 1.6 or 2.0 update?  
2009/12/22 06:23 Andrew Doesn't that makes the phone sound like obsolete? If i just want a working phone. I would have got a normal flip phone instead of a smartphone.  
2009/12/22 06:22 Andrew Doesn't that makes the phone sound like obsolete? If i just want a working phone. I would have got a normal flip phone instead of a smartphone.  
2009/12/22 06:21 Andrew Is that mean that we won't get to enjoy any apps that are written for 1.6 and above or the features that comes with 1.6 or 2.0 or even 2.1?

Hello Andrew,

What this means is that you will only have access to features and applications designed for use with the Android 1.5 operating system. As for what you can do to get 1.6 or 2.0 for your device, you and others will need to express your interest in such updates to Rogers and persuade them to request that we develope such updates.

If you have any further questions or concerns, please contact us again or check HTC Smartphone Wiki - HTC as well. We also invite you to participate in our feedback survey at survey.htc.com/worldwide. We enjoy getting feedback from our customers and look forward to hearing from you.

Best regards,
Andy2010, can you ask them why cannot they HTC simply sell us the phone? Why do we have to buy it from Rogers?
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Old December 21st, 2009, 05:42 PM   #792 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gnugu View Post
Andy2010, can you ask them why cannot they HTC simply sell us the phone? Why do we have to buy it from Rogers?
Ok i will try but i am waiting for another reply first.
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Old December 21st, 2009, 08:28 PM   #793 (permalink)
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Andy, when did they send that to you, because it is contrary to what they are saying now. Do you have the email headers and something showing the date?
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Old December 21st, 2009, 08:35 PM   #794 (permalink)
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Well I guess i'm not going to wait anymore for Rogers. and going to root my phone HTC Magic.. Looking for Android 2.0 or 2.1 anyone know a good version that runs on our Rogers Phones?
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Old December 21st, 2009, 09:11 PM   #795 (permalink)
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Huh? How about that? They've posted two customer reviews of the Dream on the Rogers site.

http://www.rogers.com/web/link/wirelessBuyFlow?forwardTo=PhoneThenPlan&productTyp e=normal&productId_Detailed=DREAMBLKR&N=52+11+4294 965972
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Old December 21st, 2009, 11:02 PM   #796 (permalink)
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Since Rogers will not update us I went ahead and I Rooted my phone in like 20min so its not that hard... i'm running Android 1.6 RAv1.6.2H Rom now with no bugs at all..but does anyone have a Android 2.0 or 2.1 rom running on there magic yet. that is stable? i'm not going to wait any longer for Rogers
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Old December 21st, 2009, 11:05 PM   #797 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mjschmidt View Post
Andy, when did they send that to you, because it is contrary to what they are saying now. Do you have the email headers and something showing the date?
Today around 2:30 and yes i have those emails they sent to me. It is clearly stated by HTC that we should ask the firmware update from Rogers.
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Old December 21st, 2009, 11:14 PM   #798 (permalink)
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Just joined the forums, but have been reading for weeks. I have signed the petition as well. I hope that this post, blogs etc will send a message to Rogers that we want our 1.6 or above.

I do want to say something about what others have been saying about the number of Android users on Rogers. Our numbers may be small when compared to all Rogers customers, but if we can get most Android users to join our fight, that is most of the customer base for Android on Rogers. If all Android users were to rebel and do something, that would be 100% and Im sure that should get there attention. Just my 2 cents on that.
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Old December 21st, 2009, 11:22 PM   #799 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brando737 View Post
If all Android users were to rebel and do something, that would be 100% and Im sure that should get there attention. Just my 2 cents on that.
For starters, we can TRY to write bad reviews for the HTC Magic/Dream (bad because of the lack of support from Rogers) on the Rogers website:

Magic : http://www.rogers.com/web/link/wirelessBuyFlow?forwardTo=PhoneThenPlan&productTyp e=normal&productId_Detailed=MAGICBLKR

Dream : http://www.rogers.com/web/link/wirelessBuyFlow?forwardTo=PhoneThenPlan&productTyp e=normal&productId_Detailed=DREAMBLK

I just did it for the Magic (which I own) and now I'm waiting to see when my review will be published.
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Old December 21st, 2009, 11:59 PM   #800 (permalink)
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Is Android Too Open or Not Open Enough?
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