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Old December 22nd, 2009, 03:29 PM   #851 (permalink)
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Or beer. ;-)
Hi guys,

What about get one who represent for us to talk with Rogers?
Let's say, we might name a organization "Rogers Android customers Alliance"?
If needed, we can sign a formal letter and send to Rogers.

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Old December 22nd, 2009, 03:30 PM   #852 (permalink)
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"I want to break free .. I want to break free" .. from Rogers

"I guess our love story will never be seen on the big wide silver screen
But it hurt just as bad when I had to watch you go" Buh Bye HTC dream.
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Old December 22nd, 2009, 03:45 PM   #853 (permalink)
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Hi guys,

What about get one who represent for us to talk with Rogers?
Let's say, we might name a organization "Rogers Android customers Alliance"?
If needed, we can sign a formal letter and send to Rogers.
I can agree with that.....i will put my vote with mjschmidt he has most of the bases covered on this topic.




on another note is suprise rogersmary has not even tried to help us,she has some great generic responses and try to deflect blame and everything but at the end of the day her customers are upset and want something done and all i hear is blah,blah,blah but no action on rogers part....they basicly saying to bad for you that you trusted us but don't assume we will support what we sell in the future. Maby in the future we can sell you another android phone that has the update that we won't support either.I guess the fairly to realise that they are going to loose alot of customers over this does not bother them enough to do the right thing.I wonder if start leaning on HTC and Google more maby we can get some action out of Rogers cause they seem fine with letting their customers rot in 1.5 land........
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Old December 22nd, 2009, 03:51 PM   #854 (permalink)
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I can agree with that.....i will put my vote with mjschmidt he has most of the bases covered on this topic.




on another note is suprise rogersmary has not even tried to help us,she has some great generic responses and try to deflect blame and everything but at the end of the day her customers are upset and want something done and all i hear is blah,blah,blah but no action on rogers part....they basicly saying to bad for you that you trusted us but don't assume we will support what we sell in the future. Maby in the future we can sell you another android phone that has the update that we won't support either.I guess the fairly to realise that they are going to loose alot of customers over this does not bother them enough to do the right thing.I wonder if start leaning on HTC and Google more maby we can get some action out of Rogers cause they seem fine with letting their customers rot in 1.5 land........
Hi mjschmidt, what do you think?

thanks,
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Old December 22nd, 2009, 03:52 PM   #855 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by chrisyak View Post
I can agree with that.....i will put my vote with mjschmidt he has most of the bases covered on this topic.




on another note is suprise rogersmary has not even tried to help us,she has some great generic responses and try to deflect blame and everything but at the end of the day her customers are upset and want something done and all i hear is blah,blah,blah but no action on rogers part....they basicly saying to bad for you that you trusted us but don't assume we will support what we sell in the future. Maby in the future we can sell you another android phone that has the update that we won't support either.I guess the fairly to realise that they are going to loose alot of customers over this does not bother them enough to do the right thing.I wonder if start leaning on HTC and Google more maby we can get some action out of Rogers cause they seem fine with letting their customers rot in 1.5 land........
I can 100% assure you that Google got nothing to do with this and they will not do anything about it. As for HTC, I am thinking, all they want is someone to pay them to do that update. What if we pay them and get HTC to release 1.6 and have HTC branded remove?
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Old December 22nd, 2009, 03:56 PM   #856 (permalink)
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I can 100% assure you that Google got nothing to do with this and they will not do anything about it. As for HTC, I am thinking, all they want is someone to pay them to do that update. What if we pay them and get HTC to release 1.6 and have HTC branded remove?
We pay? Are you nuts? What the hell do we pay for with these phones anyway? It isn't up to us to do it, it's up to Rogers. HTC should be doing this anyway to support Rogers. I already did my share when I bought this shitty phone. I am going out after work and buying two cups and a string. Much more reliable.
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Old December 22nd, 2009, 03:59 PM   #857 (permalink)
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I can 100% assure you that Google got nothing to do with this and they will not do anything about it...
I wouldn't say they have "nothing" to do with this. You are right - yes, they are very likely not directly involved but they are definitely involved indirectly.

Google is part of the Open Handset Alliance and their vision is definitely being shit on with the mess that Rogers and HTC (another OHA member) are doing. I would be surprised (and disappointed) if Google see this mess and simply ignores it. How do we get their attention? That's another story ...
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Old December 22nd, 2009, 03:59 PM   #858 (permalink)
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We pay? Are you nuts? What the hell do we pay for with these phones anyway? It isn't up to us to do it, it's up to Rogers. HTC should be doing this anyway to support Rogers. I already did my share when I bought this shitty phone. I am going out after work and buying two cups and a string. Much more reliable.
If it's going to cost me $100 to remove Rogers logo and get 1.6 update from HTC without using Rogers SPL, i would.
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Old December 22nd, 2009, 04:00 PM   #859 (permalink)
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If it's going to cost me $100 to remove Rogers logo and get 1.6 update from HTC without using Rogers SPL, i would.
I understand...point taken.

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Old December 22nd, 2009, 04:01 PM   #860 (permalink)
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Google is part of the Open Headset Alliance and their vision is definitely being shit on with the mess that Rogers and HTC (another OHA member) are doing. I would be surprised (and disappointed) if Google see this mess and simply ignores it. How do we get their attention? That's another story ...
Open Handset Alliance

http://www.google.com/contact/
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Old December 22nd, 2009, 04:04 PM   #861 (permalink)
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hehe, yup. I posted those addresses a few pages back. I have fired a lot of e-mails to those, I think my messages are sitting somewhere beside the e-mail from the Prince of Nigeria and University of Koo-bah-la Diplomas'.
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Old December 22nd, 2009, 04:13 PM   #862 (permalink)
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I can 100% assure you that Google got nothing to do with this and they will not do anything about it. As for HTC, I am thinking, all they want is someone to pay them to do that update. What if we pay them and get HTC to release 1.6 and have HTC branded remove?
AFAIR Android is open source OS and you can find many working ROMs of 1.6 for HTC Dream/Magic fro free. Some of these ROMs come from HTC itself !!!
What they want is payment for Rogers branded OS.
Sorry guys, I'm not ready to pay for that.
Actually HTC may remove restriction from ROMs created for other carriers (T-Mobile for example) and allow download them for free. I don't care about T-Mobile logo during device boot.
If Rogers does it can pay for it
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Old December 22nd, 2009, 04:19 PM   #863 (permalink)
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AFAIR Android is open source OS and you can find many working ROMs of 1.6 for HTC Dream/Magic fro free. Some of these ROMs come from HTC itself !!!
What they want is payment for Rogers branded OS.
Sorry guys, I'm not ready to pay for that.
Actually HTC may remove restriction from ROMs created for other carriers (T-Mobile for example) and allow download them for free. I don't care about T-Mobile logo during device boot.
If Rogers does it can pay for it
That brings up a good point, which I haven't seen being mentioned much. Why doesn't HTC release a generic 1.6 ROM that works on the HTCs that Rogers sells? We know they exist. they would work for other carriers as well! (Unless of-course our hardware has been cusotmized for Rogers too wtf?) Who cares about Rogers branded crap. Give your customers choice. My guess is that either HTC wants Rogers to pay for it regardless or HTC and Rogers have an agreement that prevents this from happening.
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Old December 22nd, 2009, 04:26 PM   #864 (permalink)
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I can 100% assure you that Google got nothing to do with this and they will not do anything about it. As for HTC, I am thinking, all they want is someone to pay them to do that update. What if we pay them and get HTC to release 1.6 and have HTC branded remove?
Hell no.

I can install Cyanogen's ROM. My phone will be unbranded, rooted and upgraded to 1.6, all for free.

I want a regular 1.6 update from Rogers so they will assume their responsibilities, and provide us with the update we deserve as paying customers.

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Old December 22nd, 2009, 04:26 PM   #865 (permalink)
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Folks, just to provide you with an update from my end, I just spoke with someone from the Office of the President and have asked them to re-instate my original contract termination date, prior to me doing a hardware upgrade when I got the Magic.

Prior to getting the Magic, my contract expiration date was April 2010. I performed a hardware upgrade sometime in May/June 2009, which extended my contract to 2012. As it stands now (and I still need to verify with Rogers.com Wireless Services section), my understanding is that my contract expiration date is set back to April 2010.

Here is the reason why I chose this route.

1). I am hoping (and I really am) that Rogers will be able to work something out in regards to Android 1.6+ with HTC. Yes, this is a huge assumption and their implicit word against explicit actions. I am betting that within the next 6 months, I will be able to have a better understanding of where Rogers stands with their Android update fiasco and what they are going to do about it. If they come up with a solution which I am happy with and works in my favour then I will have no problem staying with them.

2). On the other hand, if they are unable to come up with a solid roadmap/plan, then I will be happy to walk away and port my number over to another provider, be it Bell, Telus, or Wind. Hopefully these providers have Android roadmaps and devices (if they don't already). Moreover, this way I am free to walk away at the end of April 2010 without having to pay a penalty of getting out of the contract prematurely.

3). In January 2010, when Google releases Nexus One and as more information about their strategy comes to light, I will be in a better position to buy the hardware outright if it works to my benefit and never have to worry about signing a contract and being able to go with either of the providers on whose network the Nexus One works.

All this while keeping myself away from getting pushed into a corner in regards to Android application development objectives and goals. So these are the three primary reasons why I decided to have my contract termination date re-instated to the original. The person I spoke to from the Office of The President understood that I signed a contract with the understanding that the updates will be provided and this was not so. She also confirmed that while they do not have any idea of a timeline for the decision on Android 1.6, they do understand that this issue has gotten very high visibility due to the noise that has been created in the past few days and they are working on trying to come up with a strategy.

Again, take this with a grain of salt, this information is neither confirming nor denying anything. It is simply their "safe bet" statement. As such, don't shoot the messenger, it was my duty to make all this information available to you all and I will be putting this information up on my blog as well, Puleen Patel Blog Archive Attention Rogers HTC Magic / Dream Users.

Cheers!
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Old December 22nd, 2009, 04:36 PM   #866 (permalink)
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Folks, just to provide you with an update from my end, I just spoke with someone from the Office of the President and have asked them to re-instate my original contract termination date, prior to me doing a hardware upgrade when I got the Magic.

Prior to getting the Magic, my contract expiration date was April 2010. I performed a hardware upgrade sometime in May/June 2009, which extended my contract to 2012. As it stands now (and I still need to verify with Rogers.com Wireless Services section), my understanding is that my contract expiration date is set back to April 2010.

Here is the reason why I chose this route.

1). I am hoping (and I really am) that Rogers will be able to work something out in regards to Android 1.6+ with HTC. Yes, this is a huge assumption and their implicit word against explicit actions. I am betting that within the next 6 months, I will be able to have a better understanding of where Rogers stands with their Android update fiasco and what they are going to do about it. If they come up with a solution which I am happy with and works in my favour then I will have no problem staying with them.

2). On the other hand, if they are unable to come up with a solid roadmap/plan, then I will be happy to walk away and port my number over to another provider, be it Bell, Telus, or Wind. Hopefully these providers have Android roadmaps and devices (if they don't already). Moreover, this way I am free to walk away at the end of April 2010 without having to pay a penalty of getting out of the contract prematurely.

3). In January 2010, when Google releases Nexus One and as more information about their strategy comes to light, I will be in a better position to buy the hardware outright if it works to my benefit and never have to worry about signing a contract and being able to go with either of the providers on whose network the Nexus One works.

All this while keeping myself away from getting pushed into a corner in regards to Android application development objectives and goals. So these are the three primary reasons why I decided to have my contract termination date re-instated to the original. The person I spoke to from the Office of The President understood that I signed a contract with the understanding that the updates will be provided and this was not so. She also confirmed that while they do not have any idea of a timeline for the decision on Android 1.6, they do understand that this issue has gotten very high visibility due to the noise that has been created in the past few days and they are working on trying to come up with a strategy.

Again, take this with a grain of salt, this information is neither confirming nor denying anything. It is simply their "safe bet" statement. As such, don't shoot the messenger, it was my duty to make all this information available to you all and I will be putting this information up on my blog as well, Puleen Patel Blog Archive Attention Rogers HTC Magic / Dream Users.

Cheers!
Now you have to becareful with that. Make sure you obtain a written form from them.
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Old December 22nd, 2009, 04:39 PM   #867 (permalink)
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Andy2010, good point. Let me see if I can get in touch with the lady again and ask her to fax something over.

Cheers!
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Old December 22nd, 2009, 04:42 PM   #868 (permalink)
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Ok, done. Asked her to email me something and also for a fax. Just to make sure I have my bases covered.

Cheers!
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Old December 22nd, 2009, 04:44 PM   #869 (permalink)
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Andy2010, good point. Let me see if I can get in touch with the lady again and ask her to fax something over.

Cheers!
Is that mean you will have to return the device to them or buy out if you walk out later?
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Old December 22nd, 2009, 04:45 PM   #870 (permalink)
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I've been thinking about the following paradox.
Google created a new mobiles platform called Android and distributed sources for free.
HTC with very little effort adapted phones to this OS (and maybe OS to hardware) and got a huge advantage when started to sell Android phones.
From my perspective Android is a gift for HTC. Thanks to this HTC sold millions of devices. Many people bought HTC not because exceptional hardware but just because it was running Android.
Now when time come to upgrade OS HTC refuses to do it and trying to get some payment for that from Rogers (don't forget HTC is getting sources of Android by free from Google).
From my perspective this is a big ethical problem and we should pull attention of public to this problem, especially when we're talking about small group of customers in Canada.
Maybe this is good idea to formulate more clearly on good English and put somewhere as open letter to HTC management, Google and OHA ?
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Old December 22nd, 2009, 04:50 PM   #871 (permalink)
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Is that mean you will have to return the device to them or buy out if you walk out later?
I think I have to return the device, and I will be more than happy to do so. At that point I'll invest my money into a non-contracted device whether it is Nexus One or something else.
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Old December 22nd, 2009, 04:52 PM   #872 (permalink)
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I think I have to return the device, and I will be more than happy to do so. At that point I'll invest my money into a non-contracted device whether it is Nexus One or something else.
We don't really know the status of Nexus One yet. They may end up only for developers or even may be a test product only. Btw, check your private msg. I just sent you one.
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Old December 22nd, 2009, 04:55 PM   #873 (permalink)
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Ok, then I am betting hugely on Wind having an Android phone. I can make these bets, because I am willing to live with that.

Heck, I'll fork the $300 USD to get the Google Dev phone if I have to.
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Old December 22nd, 2009, 05:27 PM   #874 (permalink)
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Nice post

The Rogers Revolution Ends | Moby1 blog
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Old December 22nd, 2009, 05:43 PM   #875 (permalink)
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From the article:

Quote:
Some might say that this is HTCís way of ensuring that their newer Android devices still get good sales next year. With the HTC 2010 lineup already leaked, it is easy to see that the company has invested a lot with Android devices Ėthey have 5 phones already lined up.
I couldn't agree more! Saw the same thing with Blackberry. As of now a lot of their devices still don't have OS 5 on them even though it's been leaked for the better part of 2009 and the new devices they're pushing have it installed.

What's the incentive to buy the latest phone when you walk into Rogers and see that the latest/greatest is running the same OS you updated to a month ago. Sure, it may be faster, but is it worth the upgrade cost??? Probably not.

If you ask me, Rogers & HTC are on cahoots together on this. Just like many carriers & their phone manufacturers.
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Old December 22nd, 2009, 05:55 PM   #876 (permalink)
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From the article:



I couldn't agree more! Saw the same thing with Blackberry. As of now a lot of their devices still don't have OS 5 on them even though it's been leaked for the better part of 2009 and the new devices they're pushing have it installed.

What's the incentive to buy the latest phone when you walk into Rogers and see that the latest/greatest is running the same OS you updated to a month ago. Sure, it may be faster, but is it worth the upgrade cost??? Probably not.

If you ask me, Rogers & HTC are on cahoots together on this. Just like many carriers & their phone manufacturers.
Yah - unfortunately, it might be the case here (HTC not having incentives to roll out upgrades). However, some argue that being known as a manufacturer that abandons already-sold devices might be incentive enough!

There a good discussion on this here: Slashdot | Carriers, Manufacturers Are Strangling Android
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Old December 22nd, 2009, 06:53 PM   #877 (permalink)
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What about get one who represent for us to talk with Rogers?
Let's say, we might name a organization "Rogers Android customers Alliance"?
If needed, we can sign a formal letter and send to Rogers.
This is sort of what I was trying to do with the IWantMyOnePointSix site, that's why I registered the domain name, and created the twitter account. "I Want MY One Point Six" is meant to be a catchy slogan because of the alliteration of the words "want" and "one" that could become easily recognizable with our cause.

In order for it to work, though, it needs help by being supported by everyone in the forum, which is why I keep pestering y'all to go there and register or comment. ;-)

Other blogs have started to notice and are reporting on it. The more people who sign up on the blog, and who comment, and the more people who add it on Twitter, the higher we get in Google results, and the more exposure we get. It also helps us to appear as more of an organized group, and we can go to the media, and Rogers, and say "I/We represent the 'I Want My One Point Six' group of Rogers Android users".

As for being the official spokesperson, I don't mind being a voice here, but there are a number of users here, like Big Dog, loconet, Andy, and Puleen who have also been doing a lot to help with our exposure with their blogs.
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Old December 22nd, 2009, 07:05 PM   #878 (permalink)
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FYI: There is a thread here about rooting the Rogers HTC Magic and Dream: Rooting rogers htc phones?

Thanks to itsolution42 for the link (itsolution42 is also a follower of the IWantMyOnePointSix twitter feed).

Just because it has to be said: Use the instructions, and root, and your own risk. I have not tried these instructions yet, and your results may vary from others. You could brick your phone if you are not careful, and it voids your warranty. Caveat Emptor, consider yourself warned. I'm not a lawyer, or a doctor, but I occasionally play one or both on TV. Not.
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Old December 22nd, 2009, 09:51 PM   #879 (permalink)
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Guys,

I've been following this thread for some time and thought I'd chime in on a few items:

- Rogers did at one point get a software update from HTC. It was for a Windows Mobile 6 update for the S621 device. I had an HTC TyTn at the time and that one never got the same update, and that was 2 years ago... Maybe they had a bad experience with this? Maybe not enough customers bothered to upgrade? Only Rogers knows for sure... But to my knowledge that was the first and only time this was done. There does exist a precedent though!

- 3rd party ROMs are cool, but so far I have yet to find one that rivals the functionality of the carrier supplied ROMs. Specifically the 3rd party ROMs are devoid of ANY licensed software (namely HTC additions in this case). So you loose stuff like the PDFviewer, Exchange sync (mail, calendar and contacts) and a slew of others. Even the 1.5 and 1.6 ROMs from HTC for the development phones have these stripped. So there is defenitely a HUGE benefit to having a proper ROM from the carrier / OEM to assure we maintain that "terrific user experience"...

- Finally I can confirm that applying the 1.5 update from the Rogers / HTC web site to a rooted phone restores the phone to the factory default configuration (recovery, SPL, radio, data, and system) so if service is needed on your phone you are but an update away from a factory fresh phone! Doing this is probably a good idea anyway as this will guarentee your issue is not a software / configuration one...

So what did I do with my HTC TyTn... I eventually built my own WM6 ROM and was mostly satisfied with that. Became somewhat of an expert on hard resetting and re-initialising my device since it would lock up hard every so often. Was it my ROM? Don't know but I lived with it for two years.

Come on Rogers... Please step up to the plate so I don't have to go through that pain again!!!
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Old December 22nd, 2009, 10:03 PM   #880 (permalink)
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Mary @ Rogers 24 minutes ago
Hi All - This is Mary with Rogers. I just wanted to clarify that HTC must customize the operating system to fully integrate with all aspects of Rogers platforms and services in order for the software to be approved by Rogers. If these customizations are not done, certain features/capabilities of the device may not work properly on the Rogers network. This will result in a poor user experience.

We have asked for an upgrade from HTC and while they have indicated that they had not planned to upgrade the Rogers Dream or Magic to 1.6., they agreed to investigate all options and get back to us.

When I have more to share, I will.
Thanks,
Mary
Confirmed: No Android 1.6 For Rogers HTC Dream/Magic | Android in Canada Blog
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Old December 22nd, 2009, 10:12 PM   #881 (permalink)
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FYI: There is a thread here about rooting the Rogers HTC Magic and Dream: Rooting rogers htc phones?

Thanks to itsolution42 for the link (itsolution42 is also a follower of the IWantMyOnePointSix twitter feed).

Just because it has to be said: Use the instructions, and root, and your own risk. I have not tried these instructions yet, and your results may vary from others. You could brick your phone if you are not careful, and it voids your warranty. Caveat Emptor, consider yourself warned.
I will attest to this statement! Once I found out that Rogers.. HTC.. the Almighty Purple Chipmunk... or whoever the finger is pointing to at the moment decided not to provide 1.6 upgrades and my Rogers rep told me that I had used too many minutes in the first week to return the phone, I tried to take matters into my own hands.

I spent a couple of days researching rooting and modded ROMS. The first attempt provided me with a perfectly operable T-Mobile version of Android 1.5. I entered Rogers' APN info and found that aside from no 3G, it worked just fine. Working my way up to 1.6 in steps, I tried a modded Rogers 1.5 ROM, but messed up and flashed the SPL before the radio and... I am now bricked!

I have explained why I have done this to Rogers (I need the 1.6 upgrade for voice dialing as in my work, I use 2500+ minutes per month, mostly in my car (as of Jan 1, 2010 voice phone operation is law)). They had me call HTC Technical Support and I explained to the "tech?" what I had done and that I thought that I had bricked the phone. Not only did she not understand the term "bricked" but she proceeded to start going through the "push Home+End Call" button routine after I had already explained in detail that I was not able to access these screens and how I came to get that way.
I am now about to contact HTC repair to see what they have to say. I will post once I get a response.

I am so pissed that I am going through this simply because my mobile provider has decided to make my brand new phone obsolete and not provide upgrades to make my business phone usable in conjunction with the laws of my province!!

Can you say unacceptable? .... Sure you can...
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Old December 22nd, 2009, 10:24 PM   #882 (permalink)
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Mary @ Rogers 24 minutes ago
Hi All - This is Mary with Rogers. I just wanted to clarify that HTC must customize the operating system to fully integrate with all aspects of Rogers platforms and services in order for the software to be approved by Rogers. If these customizations are not done, certain features/capabilities of the device may not work properly on the Rogers network. This will result in a poor user experience.

We have asked for an upgrade from HTC and while they have indicated that they had not planned to upgrade the Rogers Dream or Magic to 1.6., they agreed to investigate all options and get back to us.

When I have more to share, I will.
Thanks,
Mary
Not really sure what to say. While I appreciate the fact that Rogers is trying to get this solved, this actually tells me that they either they didn't researched what they were selling fully or they knew about the no-upgrade policy and were hoping we kept quiet? It still doesn't add up. Never mind the fact that HTC is selling phones that do not have an upgrade roadmap...

All this stinks like someone up top decided to ride the Android bandwagon and make a quick buck without thinking (or caring) about the significance of carrying such devices.
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Old December 22nd, 2009, 10:28 PM   #883 (permalink)
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another interesting read that shows htc has done the update for the 1.6 on the dream

Quote:
Other manufactures like HTC are way more active in this space and even upgraded the yet outdated T-Mobile G1/HTC Dream from Android 1.0 to Android 1.5 with a later update to Android 1.6.

the::unwired - PETITION: Submission calls Samsung to Upgrade the Samsung Galaxy to Android 2.0
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Old December 22nd, 2009, 10:35 PM   #884 (permalink)
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What Mary@Rogers posted about Rogers asking HTC for the update sounds like a big step forward but I just hope it's not a ploy to quiet us down.
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Old December 22nd, 2009, 10:44 PM   #885 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by spyke555 View Post
Guys,
- 3rd party ROMs are cool, but so far I have yet to find one that rivals the functionality of the carrier supplied ROMs. Specifically the 3rd party ROMs are devoid of ANY licensed software (namely HTC additions in this case). So you loose stuff like the PDFviewer, Exchange sync (mail, calendar and contacts) and a slew of others.
I have 1.6 and Exchange sync works just fine with all the sync things that the original had. lots of pdf viewers etc. not to mention all the 1.6 only apps that work fine. It not only rivals the rogers brick, it works better. *

On the other hand, what did anyone expect rogers to do with this? You didn't believe the marketing did you? Same old crap they've pulled for many years going back long before smart phones. They all leave much to be desired and I have little hope with the Wind and whoever comes around. Same old game same old country.

* your mileage may vary. professional driver on closed course. actual device may not be exactly as shown. simulated picture. conditions apply. see dealer for details. oac. side effects include....
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Old December 22nd, 2009, 11:02 PM   #886 (permalink)
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Hi Everyone - Sorry I haven't re-engaged sooner but I've been working with our team and HTC to try and find some answers for you.

I can see some of you have already quoted replies I've made to other blogs

From what I've read, most of it can be captured in a comment I made on I Want My One Point Six - Demanding Android 1.6 for our Rogers HTC Magic & Dream, and LG Eve Phones but I'll copy it below as well.

I'm sure you'll have additional questions/comments and I'll get back as often as I can.

Here's what I posted earlier:

Hi Michael Ė Iím posting here first because you have some direct questions that I can answer. I met with HTC and hereís what they tell me.


1. HTC must customize the operating system. This is because it needs to fully integrate with all aspects of Rogers platforms and services in order for the software to be approved by Rogers. The customization is in the hands of HTC because if they donít do it some features/capabilities of the device may not work properly on the Rogers network, resulting in a poor user experience.


2. I donít know at this time if we would have to pay them for modified updates. At this point, it hasnít even been discussed because HTC has said they had not planned to provide an OS upgrade for the Rogers Dream or Magic.


3. In the US, the update was pushed out by Google.


4. In terms of what the update will have, I just donít know at this point. Regardless, it wouldnít be something I could discuss before itís ready for release.


I also asked them why they made the decision to not provide an OS 1.6 upgrade, aside from it being stable and reliable. What they said is that it isnít that they donít want to deliver a 1.6 upgrade but that want to find the best way to continue to innovative mobile solutions to Canadian consumers such as Exchange, which is not in 1.6. Thatís what they said. We continue to work with them on that front.

To anticipate your next question, yes I did ask them if they are willing to customize the 1.6 for Rogers. They committed to getting back to us with options. As you know, they had asked that I collect feedback as to why customers want a 1.6 upgrade, which I have done and provided directly to them. If you have additional feedback, please visit http://www.htc.com/www/about_htc_bymail.aspx

I hope I was able to answer some of your questions to your satisfaction. Iíve promised all along that I would listen and take your concerns back to the business, try to find answers. Iíve been doing that and will continue to do that. Now, there are a lot of questions floating around so please continue sending them to me as you have been and Iíll continue to do my best.

Rogers is an early adopter in this space, in Canada. We were the first to introduce Android with these two devices. Part of being an industry leader Ė though I totally understand the challenges you face because weíre facing them to Ė is that we are dealing with situations that are unprecedented. I will continue to listen to your feedback, share it with our team, and update you as appropriate.

Take care,
Mary
@RogersMary
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Old December 22nd, 2009, 11:18 PM   #887 (permalink)
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Hard to stay mad when Rogers uses fire-fighters posting after midnight. Get some rest Mary lol. Thanks for the info/work.

This isn't over though!
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Old December 22nd, 2009, 11:22 PM   #888 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by loconet View Post
Hard to stay mad when Rogers uses fire-fighters posting after midnight. Get some rest Mary lol. Thanks for the info/work.

This isn't over though!
...lol... I was going but a comment lured me back in ;-)
Have a good night!
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Old December 22nd, 2009, 11:35 PM   #889 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by RogersMary View Post
I also asked them why they made the decision to not provide an OS 1.6 upgrade, aside from it being stable and reliable. What they said is that it isnít that they donít want to deliver a 1.6 upgrade but that want to find the best way to continue to innovative mobile solutions to Canadian consumers such as Exchange, which is not in 1.6. Thatís what they said. We continue to work with them on that front.
Thank you for your continued work and exchange of information Mary. Just quickly off the top of my head, I am wondering about HTC. They have said that there would be no 1.6, which you have confirmed due to them saying they have to add exchange support, etc. While it is true that 1.6 does not come with exchange support from Google, 2.0 does. However, HTC has remained quiet on all fronts when it comes to OS updates (and by that I mean from 1.5 -> 1.6 -> 2.0).

Now, someone please correct me if Im wrong, from the sounds of it HTC had no plan to support these phones at all. If Rogers does push them to release updates for the Dream, Magic and any other future phone, what will their stance be on updates beyond 1.6? If 2.0 is released in the USA for the MyTouch3G (Rogers Magic) will they release it here in Canada as well? From what I have been reading about new Android versions, there is less and less that isnt included that HTC would be potentially adding to the phones and thereby using as an excuse to hold the updates from us.

And the whole Google experience line is pure b.s. Unless they specify something other than Google apps like Gmail, they are stalling because (like others have already said) all the Google apps either come stock with the phones or are downloadable from the market.

Thanks again!

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Old December 22nd, 2009, 11:45 PM   #890 (permalink)
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thanks for the reply mary...is late but i will add this,if they really want to keep their customers happy how about we just go to 2.0 since technically 1.6 is almost outdated now also and would cover any issues they may have also.by the time we see a 1.6 update really we should be at 2.0........
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Old December 23rd, 2009, 12:30 AM   #891 (permalink)
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All I have to say is Keep Pushing Rogers but it you can't wait Root... I was not going to Root till I heard the news that Rogers was not going to be sending us updates... So I rooted my phone and had a new Rom installed in 20min.. All I have to say its the best thing that has happen to my phone.... I'm now using Android 1.6 everything works on the phone.. and its faster then the Rogers Rom.. and you get all the 1.6 apps....

I Thought rooting would be a Pain but there are some really easy way to root now...

How To: Root the HTC Magic in One Click! | The Unlockr and

How To: Load a Custom ROM on Your HTC Magic | The Unlockr

Was very easy..

Also on a side note! Now you can get Google maps Navigation working on your rooted Phone Outside the USA.. Using the Hacked version of maps... I tryed it out yesterday and it works great.
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Old December 23rd, 2009, 01:11 AM   #892 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by TriC View Post
All I have to say is Keep Pushing Rogers but it you can't wait Root... I was not going to Root till I heard the news that Rogers was not going to be sending us updates... So I rooted my phone and had a new Rom installed in 20min.. All I have to say its the best thing that has happen to my phone.... I'm now using Android 1.6 everything works on the phone.. and its faster then the Rogers Rom.. and you get all the 1.6 apps....

I Thought rooting would be a Pain but there are some really easy way to root now...

How To: Root the HTC Magic in One Click! | The Unlockr and

How To: Load a Custom ROM on Your HTC Magic | The Unlockr

Was very easy..

Also on a side note! Now you can get Google maps Navigation working on your rooted Phone Outside the USA.. Using the Hacked version of maps... I tryed it out yesterday and it works great.
I wish it had been that easy for me! :-(

I saw a post earlier of someone who was in contact with a lawyer. Any chance of a class action law suit? There are just way too many of us who believe that we were mislead..
Since I bricked my own phone, I may not be able to join but I certainly would continue to help the cause...

Any thoughts?

BTW: No. 3 hit on Yahoo with a search of "Rogers HTC Dream" <no quotes> =

http://mobilesyrup.com/2009/12/19/confirmed-rogers-htc-magic-and-dream-not-getting-android-1-6/

Anyone researching these phones before buying will find this type of information!
Keep it going all....
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Old December 23rd, 2009, 04:28 AM   #893 (permalink)
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@TriC

Agreed with that on theunlockr.com
Very easy and reliable.

Btw do you have a link for hacked gmaps?
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Old December 23rd, 2009, 06:11 AM   #894 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by cdstewart View Post
@TriC

Agreed with that on theunlockr.com
Very easy and reliable.

Btw do you have a link for hacked gmaps?

here is the Link
[Think Tank #2 - SOLVED] Modifying Maps to enable Navigation outside USA - xda-developers

A class action law suit. would likey be the best thing. we just need to get the word out... I mean if you just do a search on google for the Magic or Dream with Rogers beside it some of the top links are about how Rogers will not do the update... and now that its out in the open I think alot more people will start to come to this place as well upset.
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Old December 23rd, 2009, 07:38 AM   #895 (permalink)
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I want to thank RogersMary for taking the time to get back to us continuously with information. As she mentioned above, she posted a reply to my specific question on the IWantMyOnePointSix blog, and she copied and pasted them, verbatim, above.

I will shortly repost her comments as an actual blog post so they are easier for everyone to find, and I will include there my response to it.

We're not giving up, though, I consider this a foot in the door. If the information from Rogers is to be believed, and this is really HTC _refusing_ to do it, then Rogers needs to insist that it be done.

We are customers of Rogers, and Rogers is the customer of HTC. It is simply dumb to say no to your customer, because your customer can take away your business.

Imagine the edge Rogers would have if they convinced HTC (or coerced them) to get the update done, and Bell and Telus did not? Of course, that is assuming this information proves to be true, and RogersMary hasn't been misled by her own bosses, just to placate us.

@RogersMary: Thanks again for keeping up with us. Please let your bosses know that we aren't done, and we're not going away until we either have the update, or Rogers offers us a _proper_ replacement phone we consider to be equivalent (or, as far as some of us are concerned, inferior) in the iPhone.

@HTC: We're coming for you next.
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Old December 23rd, 2009, 07:38 AM   #896 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RogersMary View Post
Hi Everyone - Sorry I haven't re-engaged sooner but I've been working with our team and HTC to try and find some answers for you.
Take care,
Mary
@RogersMary
Thank you for your continued efforts. I'm sure it is an uphill battle because as you say, for everyone here with Rogers and Rogers themselves, it's new territory. That said, someone at HTC, probably in the US, has been there before because it's already been done with T-Mobile, I believe. Maybe the Canadian office is a little behind the times and a quick call from Rogers to the US office might light a fire under the Canadian outpost!

I second the idea of someone else that, if the process has not been started, then it should be done for 2.0 and just skip the 1.6 step. As long as we know that Rogers is committed to their Android clients, most of us will probably hang in there.

Thanks again for your efforts.
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Old December 23rd, 2009, 08:07 AM   #897 (permalink)
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Here's a question, let's say that there is a release of 1.6 for our HTC hardware. What happens next? January comes along and miraculously we get 1.6. So now we have somewhat up-to-date hardware. Now there is only 2 and a half years left on my contract and 2.5 is released...then what? Start this fight all over again? I don't think so. Mike (mjschmidt) will have to start another site called iwantmytwopointzero . I feel that a hardware replacement is the only viable solution (for me anyway).

Shawn
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Old December 23rd, 2009, 08:26 AM   #898 (permalink)
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Thanks RogersMary for information provided to us. I will try to contact HTC and see if i could talk to someone in their management dept to confirm this story and as to why they have no plan to upgrade us to 1.6.

Secondly, people with T-mobile, verizon, sprint are running 1.6 on their droid phones without exchange and I don't see that is a feature for us. And because of this feature, we are held back.

Thirdly, HTC maybe working on 2.x for upgrades and new phone. Did Rogers asked about 2.x version update?

In the reply from HTC, they stated clearly that Rogers simply have to request for the update and I don't see why HTC would want to refuse it.
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Old December 23rd, 2009, 08:31 AM   #899 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by strevellick View Post
Here's a question, let's say that there is a release of 1.6 for our HTC hardware. What happens next? January comes along and miraculously we get 1.6. So now we have somewhat up-to-date hardware. Now there is only 2 and a half years left on my contract and 2.5 is released...then what? Start this fight all over again? I don't think so. Mike (mjschmidt) will have to start another site called iwantmytwopointzero . I feel that a hardware replacement is the only viable solution (for me anyway).

Shawn
Ok you have to remember one thing. If you read about 2.0 the hackers are working on, they barely managed to squeeze the ROM into dream/magic with a few mb left (just for the OS). So i doubt that 2.5 will be able to fit in there. But being said that, anything could happen. If I could get at least up to 2.0, I am a happy camper and i'll live with it. What Rogers could do is to have the next upgrade version remove the HTC branded ROM. This way, we can use google rom and stop bugging them for upgrade.
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Old December 23rd, 2009, 08:32 AM   #900 (permalink)
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Why does HTC keep saying that 1.6 does not have Exchange support? Isn't exchange support native to android 1.x ?
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