Andy2010

No it isn't. That's what i've been trying to say. Rogers customize it.

jwgeekboy

This is some interesting news from @RogersMary. Although I would have to agree with a previous post. If HTC has no plans for a 1.6 why not shift focus to 2.0 or 2.1?

I really do not want to root my Magic. I am going to wait and see what develops but my patience will be limited.

mjschmidt

I've updated the IWMOPS blog to include RogersMary's comments, and my response to them. Please go and check it out (it's rather long) and post you comments to it there.

I Want My One Point Six - Demanding Android 1.6 for our Rogers HTC Magic & Dream, and LG Eve Phones

As for why we shouldn't just forget 1.6 and focus on getting 2.x... consider this: If we are at all close to getting an update for our phones, I would argue that (given the difficulties experienced so far, and unless there is a secret at HTC to be announced) we are closer to being able to get 1.6 than anything else.

It's about practicality. We are Canadian after all. ;-)

__________________
Twitter: http://twitter.com/mjsoctober

androidandrogersdontmix

Guys just go for it and root I just did yesterday thanks to some help from the xda developers forum. I am now running cyanoogen 4.2.9 (I think lol). It is basically t mobile android 1.6 with a few added goodies. Much faster then the shitty stock rogers os. Rogers mary why could I install this in about an hour on my phone and it work perfect but rogers can't do it for me. I did it all from my phone to didn't even use my home computer and your telling me rogers a multi billion dollar company can't figure this out.

RogersMary

HTC traced this misinformation back to one agent, whom they have since corrected.

From what I've been told by HTC, they are investigating all options and will get back to us.

Have a good day all.... I'll be back when I have more to share and to read your comments.
-Mary

javadou

Thanks RogersMary.
I have a question for you: why there is NOT paid app in android market for us?
Thanks for your efforts for us again.

Andy2010

I would like to believe you but this happens 2 days ago. I still have the email that i got 2 days ago from HTC.

vikingisson

Another option is to unlock the SIM/phone (which is it?) and buy a phone that you like and update from the manufacturer or friendly geek. Will Rogers honor an unlock request? There are dozens of sites that will do it for a fee but personally I won't go near those sites. No loss to rogers, you are either still on contract or will pay the money to get out. Exactly what customizations is Rogers doing that we need? You can see the commitment that they have when the account/store icons are still "pending" and don't work. I guess they can blame that on HTC as well? b.s. (Exchange works just fine BTW so not sure what that noise is about)

We wouldn't have this trouble if we didn't get our phones from the providers. Buy the phone that you like and drop the provider SIM in. Update as desired. lather, rinse, repeat. Go ahead and try to get them to push out the update, or just do what most of the world does and buy an unlocked phone or root it yourself.

GreatBigDog

I received an email from D'Arcy from Rogers OotP yesterday evening. I won't go into the long detail of the email, I'll just say I got an insulting offer of $250 off of the ETF.

Here is what I sent back to him. Edited for spelling and grammar (did it on my Dream and I am still not use to it.)


Hello Again D'Arcy,

Let me tell you a little story. I once was a loyal customer of your company back before it was Rogers, before AT&T was involved and it was just plain old Cantel. I had a cellular phone with your company in the late 80's when all you could get was fixed in car sets and I remember the first Motorola hand sets your company carried. Anyway I started off with a fixed in car set, migrated to a bag phone and then to a Panasonic handheld. I was happy with my service even though my plan only gave me 30 free minuets for $30.00, After awhile I started getting calls from your company (I think it was Cantel/AT&T at that point), apparently there were only a few of us left in Canada left on the plan that I was on and I was asked if I would consider switching. Since I never went over my time I just said no, I'll keep the plan that I'm on. Eventually I wasn't asked and my plan was just changed without my consent. When I called to complain about the change, I was told that it was a mistake on their end but since the plan I was on no Longer existed I couldn't be put back on it.

I canceled my service on the spot and went out the next day and got service with FIDO (Was not owned by Rogers then). I stayed with FIDO until it was purchased by Rogers at which time I switched to Bell. I had no reason for leaving Bell to go back to Rogers, except that I wanted to get an ANDROID phone and Bell didn't have one. The 15% discount by bundling with my EastLink cable sort of helped too.

Anyway all that aside, I'm the technical person in my family and my circle of friends. When anybody wants advice I'm the one they all go to. I have to say that for many years after leaving your company the first time, I always recommended against Rogers. Now you seam to want to put me in the same position.

I would much rather be a satisfied Rogers customer than a disgruntled ex customer. But if it is as you say and $250 off of ETF is the best you can do for me, then we have a problem. After all, I was misinformed by one of your sales associates that there would be a 1.6 upgrade to the Phones OS. Weather it was purposeful or not, the fact is I ASKED!!!!

I was one of the more vocal customers in trying to get an answer on when to get an upgrade but I have laid low for the past couple of days to see what you would say. I'm not sure if I'll take you up on your offer or not but you need to understand that presenting me with an insulting offer like this is not going to be the end of it. I will make sure that I will cost Rogers as much new and repeat business as I can. I'll make sure to send a tweet to @RogerMary every time I get someone to get their service elsewhere. I'll send you an email from time to time to update on my progress.

Now I say again for one last time. Is that the best you are willing to do?

Regards
Don Rayner


Maybe we should all start sending @RogersMary a tweet each and every time we cost Rogers a customer.

puleen

How many of you still have the stock Rogers Magic/Dream ROM installed? I just reverted back to the stock ROM to do some comparison with the Droid ROM which I was using before.

__________________
http://puleen.com

Andy2010

I am on the phone with HTC now to verify RogersMary's claim.

Last edited by Andy2010; December 23rd, 2009 at 11:17 AM.

sconnelly

First, can we please stop asking specifically for a 1.6 update. With all due respect, that is short sighted (and suggests give us 1.6 and we’ll be happy). 1.6 is already outdated and even if we did get it, we will be in the same situation again, in no time… where market apps are not even available for 1.6 any longer.

However, I agree that even 1.6 has a number of important improvements compared to the barely functioning 1.5 (see my earlier comments about 1.5 bugs and missing features).

I would like some clarification from the group as to what we wish to accomplish here. This is my perspective and please let me know whether you agree or not.

I want Roger to agree to the following:

1. Promise timely updates, now, and in the future
Agree to guarantee to fulfill their promise of timely upgrades to ALL Android phones (including but not exclusive to the HTC Magic/Dream). This is what was promised to me, when I purchased my HTC Magic in June 2009. Android OS 1.6 must be made available to all customers by February 2010 and/or Android OS 2.0/2.1 must be made available to all customers by April 2010.

NOTE: I was specifically promised that the HTC Magic would always receive Android OS updates, just like the Apple iPhone. This was one of my key buying decisions based on the knowledge that Android OS 1.5 wasn’t a fully realized SmartPhone OS yet and many key updates from Google were planned. Additionally, I asked this question because I felt burned by Rogers once before with the HTC Touch. Fool me twice….. :-(

2. Renewal of our contracts - replace with a different smartphone
Failing #1, Rogers must allow any Android OS 1.5 phone owner to immediately renew their contract (regardless of the termination date of their contract) with any phone of their choice at the current upgrade price (less the cost paid for their Android and applicable taxes – upon returning of their phone). If necessary, it would be reasonable to impose a restriction that the upgraded phone must be equal or greater than the price paid for the customer’s original Android phone.

3. Cancel Rogers contract, change carrier option
Failing #1, 2, Rogers must allow any Android OS 1.5 phone owner the option of canceling their contract immediately, and without penalties, regardless of the date of their contract termination date.

4. Class action lawsuit ?
Failing #1, 2, 3 – Owners of any Android OS 1.5 phone will pursue a class action law suit based upon Rogers breech of contract, inability to provide a reliable service (the evidence is already widely known), knowingly selling a phone under false pretenses (we need recordings of Rogers sales pitches – for proof – but I doubt recordings are court admissible... although it IS legal to record their sales pitch!) - recording is more about using this in the media, etc…. fill in more reasons…

If #3 is a viable option, perhaps we could contact another carrier and see if they are interested in taking on a whole lot of former Rogers customers?
Perhaps they will even buy out our contracts? Just a thought…. Might be a crazy idea! I state this, knowing full well that the grass is not always greener....

Comments?

sconnelly

This is what I posted as a review of the HTC Magic, on the Rogers site yesterday. Some minor edits were done in this post.

Worst experience ever!

Date: December 23, 2009

I am terribly disappointed by "RogersMary" canned reply. Clearly this person does not own a HTC Magic nor has any experience with one!

"....We believe that Android 1.5 is a stable and reliable software platform that delivers a terrific user experience."

Are you serious?

Where to begin...

1. The HTC Magic Photo on this page shows the gesture security 'feature' which is odd. Did you know that there is a serious flaw in the security, where a few incorrect gestures will cause the phone to permanently lock up in OS 1.5. I found this out in my third day of use. It is documented by Rogers support. No one could help me get back into my phone. I had to factory reset it!

2. OS 1.5 suffers from signal acquisition loss. I lose calls all the time. See picture I posted here: (I cannot post a website but it is under code dot google dot com - android issues detail id=2845) Issue 2845 - android - After Losing Signal Phone Doesn't Try To Reacquire it - Project Hosting on Google Code

3. OS 1.5 no longer has access to great deal of Android apps that are flagged as being compatible with OS 1.6 or higher in the Android market.

4. The better paid apps, in the Android market, are not available to Canadians but this is not OS specific.

5. OS 1.5 does not have multi-touch like the iPhone.

6. OS 1.5 only has 3 screens (Hero has 7, iPhone has a great deal more)

7. There are over 200 identified issues with Android 1.5. Many of these are corrected in OS 1.6, and even more are corrected in 2.1. OS 2.1 is the first version of the Android that is actually nearly as functional as the iPhone.

When I purchased my Android in June, I was promised regular updates. I specifically asked this question because I knew OS 1.5 was an incomplete OS. Now that Rogers announced no further updates, I now understand that I was misled!

I am tired of lost calls, forced closes (one that occurs immediately upon starting up the phone - even after a factory reset), the fact that several of my productivity apps are no longer available to me in the Market (for updating).... this is the worst phone experience I have ever had and I want out of my contract.

javadou

I did the review for HTC Dream I am having on Rogers website yesterday.
But so far, my review is still not on the website. I don't know why. Do they need more time to publish it? or they deleted my review?

mjschmidt

@javadou: Google has not yet rolled out the paid apps for Canada yet, as well as for some other countries. While Rogers could be leaning on Google to get it done, we have to wait for the Goog to get to it. I have heard _rumours_ that Google might finally bring the paid apps to Canada when the Motorola Milestone launches here in 2010.

javadou

thanks mjschmidt.

Andy2010

After a few calls to HTC HQ, they finally managed to transfer me to PR dept but I had to leave a msg. Waiting for them to get back to me.

mjschmidt

Apparently it takes up to 72 hours before a review is posted. According to RogersMary elsewhere in this forum they do not edit reviews and only refuse to post them if they contravene the user agreement you have to check when you post a review.

boualem

Agree and agree!

If rogers has to pay HTC $10k to $50K for an upgrade, it rather be one of the latests: 2.0/2.1.

We also need support for 2 to three year. It doesn't have to include every incremental update. However major updates are a must.

MoreYummy

I doubt any of your point will be considered by rogers, since all of us are signed 3 years contract. They want to say whatever they want after they sold it to you, and gone until your contract is up again and pitch something to you. If someone bother to go to your step 4, that would be hard.

Andy2010

According to the HTC tech support i spoke to earlier this morning , she said on her screen noted that at this time HTC has no plan for 1.6 or any higher version for Rogers android.

Andy2010

what step 4?

mjschmidt

@sconnelly: We are by no means "settling" for 1.6, but given what we're up against, it might be easier to go in baby steps. At this point it is sill not confirmed that 2.0 will be completely compatible with the Rogers Magic and Dream (because of 3G issues I believe? Andy2010 can probably answer this better), and 2.1 _may_ be too large to fit on our phones until/unless they find a way to make the final code smaller.

We KNOW 1.6 will work on our phones, we have yet to confirm if 2.0 will work. I agree it would be nice to skip right to 2.0, but considering how long we would have to wait for _that_ I'd rather have 1.6 within a month or two, than continue waiting for an update we might not be able to use.

I would agree to demanding we have 1.6 by February 28 by the latest, given that as far as we know HTC has done no work yet to prepare it with Rogers customization. If they can not promise 1.6 by that date, then we are back to looking at your other options. As for 2.0, provided we can confirm from sources _other_ than HTC and Rogers that it will work on these phones, we would continue to lobby Rogers/HTC for 2.0 by a specific date (and a promise from them to deliver it).

Agreed. Rogers needs to understand that these aren't "phones with a few tricks" these are mini-computers that can make phone calls, which means they are closer to the iPhone than to the Blackberry. I don't know why they refuse to trade us for iPhones given that the price should be similar? I think this might be a case for trying to contact _Apple Canada_ to let them know they have a chance to convert a large group of people from Android to iPhone, which would be a nice PR score for them.

Agreed. Many users in this forum are working on that right now. Check the posts from GBD and others who have been talking to the OotP.

A lawsuit should be kept as the final straw option, but we shouldn't get our hopes up. Lawsuits are never as clear cut as in the movies or TV. The courts may not even be willing to hear the case if they feel it has no merit, and depending on the fine print of the Rogers contracts, it might not. Ultimately it would be useful to get the opinion of a lawyer on this matter, and in fact one of our members is _already_ pursuing this, so you will need to wait to see what information he can get.

mjschmidt

See my reply to Sconnoley. Unless we can confirm that 2.0 will work on our phones, it would be a waste of all we have done so far to bring attention to this issue to have to start from scratch. It was hard enough getting Rogers to realize _what_ 1.6 is and why we need it. Don't give them ammunition to make us wait longer, when we could theoretically have 1.6 within a month or two. I'd rather have 1.6 soon, than 2.0 "in the future".

Andy2010

I couldn't agree more. Until we have problem running apps on 1.6 then we will look into 2.0 and by that time, we will have a better understanding if 2.x is successfully ported to G1/dream/magic/mytouch.

Andy2010

If HTC's reason for not upgrading us to 1.6 because of Exchange, how many of you would agree that we could care less about Exchange?

sconnelly

Thanks for your reply.

I should point out a correction to option #1. It is reasonable to demand updates only as long as the hardware supports the updates. We cannot reasonably expect Android updates in to perpetuity.

I (or we) really need to review our contract in order to determine if there are really, truly, any "outs" for the consumer. I was only guessing "breech of contract". At this time, I do not know, but I will be sure to take a copy of my contract on vacation tomorrow. I am not a lawyer, but I do have some experience as a two-times writer of legal documents.

GreatBigDog

I have heard that the magic is perfectly capable of supporting 2.x as it has the same or better specs than the Hero. Sinc HTC is working on 2.1 for the hero it should also run on Magic. The Dream however has a problem with storage space (Apps to SD would fix that though)

gbd

GreatBigDog

HTC - You know what you can do with your exchange!!!! I WANT MY ONE POINT SIX.

boualem

- Motorola Droid specs show 512MB ROM / 288MB RAM: running Android 2.0
- Nexxus one Specs show 512MB ROM/ 512MB RAM : running Android 2.1
- Magic Specs show 512MB ROM / 288MB RAM: running Android 1.5

So please stop, saying that Android 2.0/2.1 will not fit in the 512MB ROM that the HTC Magic has.

Andy2010

2.0 i know for sure can be installed to the dream. The only problem left is the camera driver. Hackers couldn't get it because it's a closed source from HTC.

As for 2.1, you can see the video that i posted. Currently the Rom is just a basic rom with not many features. So by the time it's fully release, we don't know if it will fit into dream/G1 or not.

Andy2010

Boualem, is not that. Go do some read up as to why. I think the phone set a quota for OS install then leave the rest for apps. I believe somewhere around 70 to 80 mb.

Andy2010

T Mobile G1 to get Android 2.0 My Thoughts

boualem

This is true. However it does not change anything.
Applications-reserved-space applies to all phones and all versions of Android. This will continue until Google decides to put them on the SD card

Regardless of how ROM and RAM are partitioned, what count at the end is how much RAM and ROM you've got

Last edited by boualem; December 23rd, 2009 at 12:43 PM.

Andy2010

What I particularly like about 2.0 is that it has multitouch support which our phones are capable of.

mjschmidt

Here is an interesting stream of tweets I discovered on Twitter between RogersMary and various people:

"@RogersHelps Why won't you guys pony up for Android 1.6 when a lot of applications are using the features it provides?"

To which RogersMary replied:

"@afreak Hi. We can't offer an upgrade until HTC makes one available to us, which has not been offered."

To which TheNinjaSquad replied:

"@RogersMary Would they make one if you asked/paid them to?"

To which RogersMary replied:

"@theninjasquad We have asked. They're considering their options."

----------

I also noticed this:

"@RogersMary So nothing is decided regarding HTC Magic and upgrades? And is it a question for you or HTC?"

To which RogersMary replied:

"@theninjasquad We have asked. They're considering their options."

------

These two conversations were about 2 hours ago, so I wonder what "options" HTC is considering?

sconnelly

Although I really appreciate your time to reply to us RogerMary, with all due respect, some of what you wrote just doesn't make a whole lot of sense. Could you please provide clarification?

I don't have much time since I am in transit now, but I am especially puzzled by:
> 1. HTC must customize the operating system. This is because it needs
> fully integrate with all aspects of Rogers platforms and services in order
>for the software to be approved by Rogers. The customization is in the
>hands of HTC because if they don’t do it some features/capabilities of
>the device may not work properly on the Rogers network, resulting
>in a poor user experience.

I wasn't sure whether to laugh or cry at that statement. What modifications does Rogers require?

There is the:
Home icon - big deal, it is simple a URL link and it is useless. I doubt anyone uses it and the link is not even mobile friendly; in fact a five year old with some HTML experience might have done a better job.

My Account icon - up until a few weeks ago, this was a broken link. Now it simply announces an Android app in the future. Useless!

Ringbacks and Ringtones icons - Again, useless URL link icons which go to mobile unfriendly web pages (actually both icons go to the same URL).

Shop icon - Another useless URL link icon. Again, not mobile friendly. Also, there is currently a link for "Holiday Hotties - Unwrap These Beautiful ladies"
I am not a prude, but I don't think this is FAMILY FRIENDLY! It seems rather tacky on a Rogers store page!

Is this the extent of your special customizations?

Why not just push them out to your customers?

gnugu

DON'T!!!

You are bricked if ALL of these apply:
1. Can't boot to SPL.
2. Can't boot to recovery.
3. Can't boot to ROM.

If you are bricked NOBODY can read the phone, not even all-mighty HTC.

So! Find a different Rogers store, walk in and tell them that your battery died and after you have fully recharged the phone it no longer works. They'll ask questions you tell them you don't understand what they are talking about. Don't mention rooting/unlocking anything.

You have no idea what happened. You demand the phone to be replaced within the warranty!

It works. I can confirm!

__________________
www.gnugu.com

mjschmidt

A question of 1.6 vs 2.0

I have been seeing a number of posters complaining that we are wasting or time asking for 1.6, or that we are "settling" and should just forget 1.6 and ask for 2.0.

I do not disagree that it would be better to have 2.0, and if it works on our hardware, then yes, I want it.

However... before we end up fracturing in our support of this issue, please consider the following:

When we started this crusade a month ago, we were being told everything from "yes, the upgrade is coming" to "No you can't get it" to "It's available right now on the web site to download."

Of course the "download" to which they were erroneously referring is the 1.5 bug fix/security patch.

After finally complaining our way to the Office of the President (OotP) a number of us were told by _different_ representatives that Rogers would get the update from HTC by the end of December for testing and evaluation, and that we _might_ get it in the new year. This was after we specifically asked about getting _1.6_.

It turned out later, according to Mr. Brian Szeto from the OotP (and Mary) that these OotP reps _misunderstood_ our request and had confused 1,6 with 1.5 (just like the CSRs and techies) even though we explained it to them clearly, we thought. It turns out these reps _meant_ to say that we would be getting more updates to 1.5, not the 1.6 upgrade.

Please also remember that when I spoke to Sherry from the OotP, she put me on hold to talk to "tier 2" support and when she came back to me she told me that she had them look at HTC's site, and they saw that an update was available, so they would have to look in to it. That means that, until I called to complain, they seemed not even to know that 1.6 was an option!

In a subsequent conversation with Sherry, she had to investigate to find out just who was responsible for Android! This included bringing in the Director of Rogers Wireless.

Now, I'd love to have 2.0, and I _hope_ that because of the attention we've given this issue Rogers must know 2.0 is an option, but given the confusion we've experience at their end, given that they confused 1.5 with 1.6, and didn't know who was responsible for it... I am concerned that changing our focus from 1.6 (which we have been demanding all this time) to 2.0 might just confuse them further.

If HTC announces (through Rogers) that they've decided to skip 1.6 for our phones, but take us right to 2.0, _and_ they will have it for us within the next 2 months, I will be very happy, and I will forget about 1.6.

However, until we hear from them that they will give us 2.0 instead, I think our chances of getting 1.6 are a lot better.

Considering that 1.6 has been available since October, then _if_ they said we couldn't have 2.0 until later in 2010, I'd rather they give us 1.6 now, and 2.0 later.

Those of you who want to give up on 1.6 and demand 2.0, you have that option. Until and unless Rogers or HTC says we will have 2.0 within _2_ months, I will keep demanding 1.6 since it seems the more likely of the two.

I also don't want Rogers or HTC to use the requests of some for 2.0 as an excuse to make us wait even longer, when theoretically we could have 1.6 a LOT sooner.

Last edited by mjschmidt; December 23rd, 2009 at 01:08 PM.

Klenya

There are few applications on Android market that make the work for Exchange, so I prefer to pay for it and to have an updated version of Android

sconnelly

And just keep doing this?

Eventually, Rogers will realize that it would have been cheaper and more profitable to simply allow us to replace our Android phones with something else, like the iPhone.... or provide timely updates for the Android.

Note... I am not advocating the repeated and purposeful bricking of your phones, but if it does happen... play stupid (even if it hurts your ego) and send it in for repair... er replacement.

If there is no resolution by the time I get back from holidays, I plan to do my own upgrade. This is out of necessity because I am getting into trouble with the wife because of constant dropped calls and occasional complete loss of reception.

Is anyone else experiencing this issue? See: Issue 2845 - android - After Losing Signal Phone Doesn't Try To Reacquire it - Project Hosting on Google Code

Andy2010

Sadly to say but i don't want this to be an excuse for them for putting up bug fix for 1.5

mjschmidt

I have had no trouble with dropped called since I got my Magic in June. Maybe it's a bad phone?

Andy2010

What i had experienced is calls come in with 2 rings and stop. Didn't tell me if there's a miss call. 2 weeks ago i got full bar signal but can't receive or make calls for 2 days even after replacing simcard as i was told. After that, it starts working again but I got a replacement phone for it. I think it was one of the tower went down in my area.

mjschmidt

I just tweeted RogersMary to ask why we cannot have the iPhone in exchange for our HTC phones.

HTC Magic = $599

iPhone 3G 8GB = $580

GreatBigDog

I had the same problem with 2 rings but it was me hitting the hangup button instead of the pickup button in the dark. It sent my calls to voice mail. ;-)

chrisyak

sconnelly great post and mjschmidt nice rebuttal i can agree with everything you both said and those should be our clear and cut objectives.......

mjschmidt ,awesome reply to mary and she will have her work cut out for her with that response.....i think mary is gonna needs some assistants on this issue...i will repsond to blog a little later pressed for time today

GreatBigDog

I put out $79 for the phone $99 to extend the guarantee out to 3 years and $116 for 16GB SD. No way I'd settle for 8GB Iphone (you can't expand it). It would have to be the 16GB Iphone 3GS for me.

gbd

cdstewart

@andy2010

Im guessing you live in vancouver?
I had the same issue: it was due to towers.

Klenya

I don't think this an equal replacement. Battery life of iPhone 3G is barely 12 hours of moderate usage when Magic could last up to 24 hours.
After all there no free navigation system from Google (or Apple ) for iPhone even in theory