sconnelly great post and mjschmidt nice rebuttal i can agree with everything you both said and those should be our clear and cut objectives.......
mjschmidt ,awesome reply to mary and she will have her work cut out for her with that response.....i think mary is gonna needs some assistants on this issue...i will repsond to blog a little later pressed for time today
However, we want to make our preferences CLEAR to Rogers/HTC.
Please correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe that we want in order of preference:
- Android 2.1/2.0
- Android 1.6 (with a promise to upgrade us to 2.X or 3.X in the near future)
Note that:
- if Rogers has to pay for the updates, it doesn't make sense for them to pay twice ($10k-50K each time).
- If HTC is doing the upgrade on their own , it doesn't make sense for them to perform the update, customization and testing twice (free to rogers and twice the cost to HTC)
Last edited by boualem; December 23rd, 2009 at 01:40 PM.
If HTC's reason for not upgrading us to 1.6 because of Exchange, how many of you would agree that we could care less about Exchange?
I could care less for Exchange. With GMail who the heck needs Exchange?
In 2.0 though, I think there is a feature to be able to add more than 1 gmail account. I briefly read this being mentioned somewhere, not 100% sure about it.
I could care less for Exchange. With GMail who the heck needs Exchange?
In 2.0 though, I think there is a feature to be able to add more than 1 gmail account. I briefly read this being mentioned somewhere, not 100% sure about it.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by boualem
However, we want to make our preferences CLEAR to Rogers/HTC.
Please correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe that we want in order of preference:
- Android 2.1/2.0
- Android 1.6 (with a promise to upgrade us to 2.X or 3.X in the near future)
No, as far as i am concerned if they can give us 2.0 within 2 months, I'll accept that and wait. If it will take longer than that, the I want 1.6 within 2 months, which is not unreasonable since it was released in October of 2009.
I suppose the real question is, how long are you willing to wait with just 1.5? What happens if they say to us, "Okay, you would prefer 2.0 instead of 1.6? No problem, we'll work on that, and try to have it for you by the middle of 2010".
Then the middle of 2010 comes and they say either "We misjudged, it's not ready yet" or maybe even "Well, since 2.1 is out now, we thought we'd work towards that instead, so it's going to take longer."
As long as we keep demanding the upgrade that's farther out, it becomes an excuse for not giving us anything because, by your logic about the number of times they will have to pay, there will be a better version coming they'd rather pay for "once".
1.6 has been out since October. We know it works.
The only reason we don't already have it is because (it would seem) Rogers didn't know about it, and may or may not be willing to pay to get it, or to demand that HTC provide it.
All that needs to be done to get 1.6 is for HTC to customize it for Rogers. That's it.
The real question is, why won't they.
I don't want to keep waiting another half a year for something I should have had 2 months ago, an upgrade.
Do as you please boualem, I'm going to keep fighting for 1.6 in the now. Anyone who wants to can join me.
(Cue rousing celtic music as the clan chiefs go their separate ways, creating history and deciding the fate of an entire nation). ;-)
Please read this: Rogers Dream 1.6 Update and remember that our squabbling just hurts us and helps Rogers and HTC.
Oh yeah, and remember, they ARE reading this thread, so it's not like this will be a secret to them.
We started this (Actually Mike and Andy were the ones that got the ball rolling) to get the 1.6 update that was supplied to Android users in the US. There currently is no 2.x for Dream / Magic of whatever flavor it is.
Come on Rogers
I WANT MY ONE POINT SIX
gbd
Last edited by GreatBigDog; December 23rd, 2009 at 02:19 PM.
According to the HTC tech support i spoke to earlier this morning , she said on her screen noted that at this time HTC has no plan for 1.6 or any higher version for Rogers android.
It's funny because actually they have an offical 1.6 ROM for Google I/O device (ION) that just re-branded HTC Magic.
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Look guys, 1.6 maybe the last update for us if T-mobile and those provider are not updating for their G1/MyTouch to 2.x. So just lets stick to 1.6, better than not getting any version update.
No, as far as i am concerned if they can give us 2.0 within 2 months, I'll accept that and wait. If it will take longer than that, the I want 1.6 within 2 months, which is not unreasonable since it was released in October of 2009.
I suppose the real question is, how long are you willing to wait with just 1.5? What happens if they say to us, "Okay, you would prefer 2.0 instead of 1.6? No problem, we'll work on that, and try to have it for you by the middle of 2010".
Then the middle of 2010 comes and they say either "We misjudged, it's not ready yet" or maybe even "Well, since 2.1 is out now, we thought we'd work towards that instead, so it's going to take longer."
As long as we keep demanding the upgrade that's farther out, it becomes an excuse for not giving us anything because, by your logic about the number of times they will have to pay, there will be a better version coming they'd rather pay for "once".
1.6 has been out since October. We know it works.
The only reason we don't already have it is because (it would seem) Rogers didn't know about it, and may or may not be willing to pay to get it, or to demand that HTC provide it.
All that needs to be done to get 1.6 is for HTC to customize it for Rogers. That's it.
The real question is, why won't they.
I don't want to keep waiting another half a year for something I should have had 2 months ago, an upgrade.
Do as you please boualem, I'm going to keep fighting for 1.6 in the now. Anyone who wants to can join me.
(Cue rousing celtic music as the clan chiefs go their separate ways, creating history and deciding the fate of an entire nation). ;-)
Please read this: Rogers Dream 1.6 Update and remember that our squabbling just hurts us and helps Rogers and HTC.
Oh yeah, and remember, they ARE reading this thread, so it's not like this will be a secret to them.
There is a difference between GA (General Availability) and when manufacturers such as HTC and Motorola get a piece of software.
Typically, as a manaufaturer (specially a big one) you get alphas, betas, and Release-candidates (RA) months before GA. That is why (for example) Droid was out with 2.0 as the same time when GA occured.
Hence, the assumption that we will wait longer for 2.0 instead of 1.6 may not be correct.
I believe no one will be unhappy if either HTC or Rogers come back and said: based on our analysis it doesn't make sense for us to give you 1.6 and then 2.0: you will be be upgraded to 2.0.
All what we are doing is making our preferences clear. In the end HTC and Rogers will have to make a decision based on cost and any other criteria they may choose.
Look guys, 1.6 maybe the last update for us if T-mobile and those provider are not updating for their G1/MyTouch to 2.x. So just lets stick to 1.6, better than not getting any version update.
QFT!
There is no point to ask for an update that does not exist yet and may never exist! We KNOW 1.6 is out and that it works; this is what we want. Until there is an official 2.x update for the Dream/Magic all we can do is speculate if it will work. I think it would, but there is nothing official so it would be detrimental to ask for something that has not been announced.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zortoflaven
QFT!
There is no point to ask for an update that does not exist yet and may never exist! We KNOW 1.6 is out and that it works; this is what we want. Until there is an official 2.x update for the Dream/Magic all we can do is speculate if it will work. I think it would, but there is nothing official so it would be detrimental to ask for something that has not been announced.
It would be even better if they will release 1.6 with Google Branded. This way less customization and we can move on ourselves in the future if we chooses to. Rogers had to pay them anyway, why not just move to google branded ROM.
Google countdown. Go to Google standard page and click I'm feeling lucky without entering anything to search for. I wonder what the countdown is for.........
1. New Years
2. Nexus
3. Rogers gives us all new Android phones ;-)
4. End of the world.
Look guys, 1.6 maybe the last update for us if T-mobile and those provider are not updating for their G1/MyTouch to 2.x. So just lets stick to 1.6, better than not getting any version update.
After all, for HTC it's a matter of few hours to prepare Android ROM 1.6 for Rogers, when 2.x might take months.
Last edited by Klenya; December 23rd, 2009 at 02:47 PM.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Klenya
After all, for HTC it's a matter of few hours to prepare Android ROM 1.6 for Rogers, when 2.x might takes months.
Yep, i agree. Look at Hero for instance, they are still working on 2.1 for Hero since the last announcement from HTC, more than a month ago. Up till today still haven't release it. The process may easily take 4 to 6 months.
Firstly, thanks for carrying the torch, mjschmidt. I've been lurking this thread thread for weeks now and I appreciate what you've been doing.
I saw your Tweet about suggesting an iPhone in exchange for our Magic/Dreams.
The thing is: I don't want an iPhone. I choose Android for a reason (multiple reasons). I suggest that asking for a non-Android replacement dilutes the issue. It's not what I want, and it wouldn't be a satisfactory outcome (to me).
I summarize it like so for the people who aren't familiar with the issues:
(1) I bought a smartphone, not a simple phone. The phone is constantly being updated in software, just not if you're with Rogers. I bought it for these (growing!) capabilities.
(2) Rogers supports other phones with updates. I completely expected them to support my HTC Dream with updates as well. We bought it because it was an Android phone, with all that this implies. (growing community, growing applications, etc.)
(3) By NOT updating my phone, its value is greatly reduced. Why would we pay so much for a phone if it wasn't going to be supported? We wouldn't.
(4) There are many programs in the Android Market which are not available to phones with the old 1.5 firmware, and the number of limited programs can only be expected to grow putting us further behind.
(5) If Rogers doesn't support this particular phone that they sell, then why should I expect them to support ANY phone in the future? Correspondingly, if HTC isn't providing the firmware to Rogers, then why would I every buy another HTC phone?
It's hard to tell which company's "fault" it is. In reading this thread the blame seems to flip-flop every few posts. Personally I don't care. It's obviously a problem. The companies are now obviously aware of it, and of our growing community of vocal users. (/wave to @RogersMary - thanks for the communication)
So... Rogers/HTC... put some people on it and fix the problem.
Please.
Google countdown. Go to Google standard page and click I'm feeling lucky without entering anything to search for. I wonder what the countdown is for.........
1. New Years
2. Nexus
3. Rogers gives us all new Android phones ;-)
4. End of the world.
What do you think
Come on Rogers
I WANT MY ONE POINT SIX
gbd
3. Rogers gives us all new Android phones ;-)
in minutes?
Last edited by Klenya; December 23rd, 2009 at 02:51 PM.
Google countdown. Go to Google standard page and click I'm feeling lucky without entering anything to search for. I wonder what the countdown is for.........
I unpacked the javascript the other day, it seems to just be a counter for the new year. Will there be news for us Jan 1st? I hope so.
I don't think this an equal replacement. Battery life of iPhone 3G is barely 12 hours of moderate usage when Magic could last up to 24 hours.
After all there no free navigation system from Google (or Apple ) for iPhone even in theory
Perhaps I am misunderstanding you, but I happen to know that the iPhone has a better version of Google Maps and they ALSO have Google Earth (ironically not available for Android).
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GreatBigDog
Google countdown. Go to Google standard page and click I'm feeling lucky without entering anything to search for. I wonder what the countdown is for.........
1. New Years
2. Nexus
3. Rogers gives us all new Android phones ;-)
4. End of the world.
Since we are building our wish-list for Santa-Rogers ...
Can we please have some form of reassurance that Rogers has learned from this experience and in the future, it will make sure that the phones they roll out can be upgraded (as long as the hardware allows for it)?
I don't want to think that we've voiced out concerns all these days to only get a 1.6 upgrade and that is the end of it all. I want to know that if my current phone's hardware supports 2.0 or if I buy another phone from Rogers, it will be upgraded without a problem. Essentially don't sell phones that can't be upgraded! Firmware upgrades are essential in this context - we are not dealing with microwaves here.
Removing the useless (yes, they are completely useless) Rogers icons would be nice too
Last edited by loconet; December 23rd, 2009 at 03:03 PM.
Based on this, HTC Nexus One blessed by the FCC (updated) -- Engadget it seems that Nexus One will support 1700/2100 bands. And I believe WIND mentioned somewhere that their service is Advanced Wireless Service supporting 1700/2100 bands as well.
Does this mean that Nexus One will be exclusive to Wind? And since with WIND you buy the phone and it's yours (ofcourse locked to WIND), makes an even stronger point that Nexus One may come to Canada via WIND!
Just speculating based on the information out there....but, what if!
Simply not true but I wanted to find out why that is being said despite that my 1.6 does exchange just fine. Oh now I see, it is a binary closed source app from HTC. In other words you can only get it officially from the provider (Rogers). And there is some closed source hardware I think bluetooth and is why some profiles don't work or don't work well. Again, the devs have to reverse engineer it to make it work at all.
So Rogers would have to pay HTC for the "customization" or more accurately to legally have exchange support and some form of BT functionality. The useless icons are trivial and not the problem except for the user wondering why they are there. Shame on both Rogers and HTC. Rogers won't spend the money until there is critical mass with adoption. HTC is holding back code and crippling android for those that don't pay over and above for the phone itself. And they will (and have) send cease and desist orders to devs that dare to include the same proprietary apps that the phone came with when it booted with a Rogers logo. Hey, I paid for that app once so I'll use it again on my unofficial upgrade on the same phone. But I could live without exchange if I had to.
Well, Rogers and no provider in this country will ever see me locked into a 3 year contract nor will I ever again buy my phone from them. I will never buy an HTC phone in general that claims to run android but is crippled in any way. Android is open source and I expect my hardware to be open as well. I didn't buy an iphone, there is a difference and my choice was for a reason.
I came back into cell phone life (after many years without) fully expecting this kind of nonsense. So I had no problem putting a 3rd party ROM on it and am now enjoying the phone as advertised. But I was a bit naive thinking that things that are working well such as Exchange, BT file exchange, and USB tethering were just normal for this phone and the 1.6 OS. Technically I'm doing something against the fine print. boo hoo, call a lawyer. Meanwhile Rogers, enjoy the money I send you every month and HTC, enjoy the money you got for this otherwise fine piece of hardware.
Based on this, HTC Nexus One blessed by the FCC (updated) -- Engadget it seems that Nexus One will support 1700/2100 bands. And I believe WIND mentioned somewhere that their service is Advanced Wireless Service supporting 1700/2100 bands as well.
Does this mean that Nexus One will be exclusive to Wind? And since with WIND you buy the phone and it's yours (ofcourse locked to WIND), makes an even stronger point that Nexus One may come to Canada via WIND!
Just speculating based on the information out there....but, what if!
How come?
The specification is:
Cellular & wirelessUMTS Band 1/4/8 (2100/AWS/900)
HSDPA 7.2Mbps
HSUPA 2Mbps up to 5.76Mbps
GMS/EDGE (850/900,1800,1900 MHz)
Means it suppose to work with any carrier in Canada.
It would be even better if they will release 1.6 with Google Branded. This way less customization and we can move on ourselves in the future if we chooses to. Rogers had to pay them anyway, why not just move to google branded ROM.
Agreed! Move to Google branded ROM. None of thise Rogers branding BS.
Google countdown. Go to Google standard page and click I'm feeling lucky without entering anything to search for. I wonder what the countdown is for.........
1. New Years
2. Nexus
3. Rogers gives us all new Android phones ;-)
4. End of the world.
What do you think
Come on Rogers
I WANT MY ONE POINT SIX
gbd
loconet actually looked at the code on this and confirmed that it is just a counter for 2010 New Year.
I will never buy an HTC phone in general that claims to run android but is crippled in any way.
And that goes for the Nexus One. If it is crippled in way like the Magic is then I'll wait to see what happens with Nexus Two or when someone else makes one. I'll take one if they will trade in my Magic but that won't happen so I'll enjoy what I have. It works fine since going to 1.6
Based on this, HTC Nexus One blessed by the FCC (updated) -- Engadget it seems that Nexus One will support 1700/2100 bands. And I believe WIND mentioned somewhere that their service is Advanced Wireless Service supporting 1700/2100 bands as well.
Does this mean that Nexus One will be exclusive to Wind? And since with WIND you buy the phone and it's yours (ofcourse locked to WIND), makes an even stronger point that Nexus One may come to Canada via WIND!
Just speculating based on the information out there....but, what if!
How come?
The specification is:
Cellular & wirelessUMTS Band 1/4/8 (2100/AWS/900)
HSDPA 7.2Mbps
HSUPA 2Mbps up to 5.76Mbps
GMS/EDGE (850/900,1800,1900 MHz)
Means it suppose to work with any carrier in Canada.
Again I am speculating based on what I know, just surface information. If Nexus One works with any and all Canadian providers, that is AWESOME news. I'll move to Nexus One.
Here’s the price: $199 unlocked in stores. $100 rebate online if you have an active and old Google account. That $100 rebate is either to buy it $99 online from Google’s online phone store, for using on Android Marketplace or for using on any Google Checkout stores. Can also be used for T-Mobile or AT&T pre-paid Data SIM card service at $29 per month, no contracts required. Google will push full VOIP usage on these, meaning no voice/sms plans needed at any carrier. Voice calls will go through Google Voice on Data SIM cards and will provide unlimited free voice calling. And SMS is replaced by unlimited free Gtalk.
Finally, Google will provide easy roaming data services in other countries. For example, if you go to Europe, you can roam on HSDPA data networks for the same price of 20€ per month, and if you only stay in Europe for a few days you won’t need to pay for the whole month. You may not even need to change the SIM card.
All fine and beautiful. The bold part is where I wish we were at but we are not are we? At least not in Canada.
When they say Voice/SMS plans are not needed, do they mean, it doesn't do voice/sms or that it is optional? Can we even get data-only in Canada? Furthermore, Google Voice doesn't work here yet, will it magically work by January 5th? Probably not. How about SMS?
Still a lot of questions to be answered. I would love to finally have a device that is data only (enough of this voice / data separation nonsense) but are we there yet?
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GreatBigDog
I received an email from D'Arcy from Rogers OotP yesterday evening. I won't go into the long detail of the email, I'll just say I got an insulting offer of $250 off of the ETF.
This is exactly what we want: to force Rogers CS representatives to express their frustration, but not to customers yet to decision makers of Rogers.
Customer Support person should say they cannot help people just because stupid decision do not update Android phones to 1.6 and 2.x.
Don't forget - Customer Support person is only channel for customer to communicate with Rogers.
This is exactly what consumers must do. It is not personal. The CSR is not a scapegoat, they are the line to management. They are the line to the consumer. When you cannot get your point across at a CSR level, demand escalation. Note: With Rogers always ask for the interactive ID. It will begin with the letter "i" Keep detailed notes of your conversation.
We the consumer have the power but we don't always use it.
How come?
The specification is:
Cellular & wirelessUMTS Band 1/4/8 (2100/AWS/900)
HSDPA 7.2Mbps
HSUPA 2Mbps up to 5.76Mbps
GMS/EDGE (850/900,1800,1900 MHz)
Means it suppose to work with any carrier in Canada.
Ups, I don't think 3G will work for Rogers since the last one uses UMTS 850/1900 MHz
It gives you endless opportunity to use Nexus One on WIND network in GTA and Calgary, since these only coverage zones. For the rest of Canada you suppose to pay for roaming
Essentially it depends on how much money in the past you've spent on your monthly wireless bill and if you have given more money and if they (Rogers) thinks that you will be a constant stream of revenue, they will give you stuff for free.
When I used to do consulting, my avg monthly bill used to be no lower than $200-300 for wireless. I ended up asking them to give me the 8800 for free and the Bold for an even reduced price when each of the phones came out.
It gives you endless opportunity to use Nexus One on WIND network in GTA and Calgary, since these only coverage zones. For the rest of Canada you suppose to pay for roaming
Personally, I seldom go to Calgary or to any other part of Canada. In the last three years the only random place I've been to was NFLD.
So I would not mind switching to WIND eventually, if they do get the Nexus One or are able to support it.
