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More people are choosing NOT to get Android phones from Rogers because of the noise we are making. People have posted here in this forum to say so, I've had people tell me on the twitter acct they won't buy one because of our info, and someone just commented on the blog that they have decided against buying one because of it.
More people are choosing NOT to get Android phones from Rogers because of the noise we are making. People have posted here in this forum to say so, I've had people tell me on the twitter acct they won't buy one because of our info, and someone just commented on the blog that they have decided against buying one because of it.
Our efforts of educating and informing potential customers from choosing an incompetent provider are working.
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Okay i just got off the phone with HTC PR, Keith i believe is his name said that they are aware of this issue and they will work with Rogers to do something about it. At this point he said he got no information to offer. So if you want them to hear us, call HTC HQ and ask for to transfer to PR department not tech support and voice your concern.
May I suggest that this new direction gets it's own thread.
If we keep the current thread intact, it clearly shows the efforts made and the ultimate outcome. One reading this could see that the consumer will always find a way.
I would live to show my network that best efforts were made to work with Rogers, this was driven to the top of the Rogers food chain and ultimately their response was "we heard you and we are not prepared to do anything to correct the situation". Unless I am over reacting this was the paraphrased message.
A new thread on Nexus will bring the same power in numbers working toward a positive outcome.
BTW - If the Nexus works on Rogers, I know of 6GB plans @ $20 / month. Don't pay more than that.
We started this (Actually Mike and Andy were the ones that got the ball rolling) to get the 1.6 update that was supplied to Android users in the US. There currently is no 2.x for Dream / Magic of whatever flavor it is.
Come on Rogers
I WANT MY ONE POINT SIX
gbd
While Mike and Andy put a lot of effort into building an Internet presence (kudos to them), a whole lot of us (or at least myself) were working hard at bringing these issues to Rogers (and Google) since August 2009.
Until recently, I was campaigning in a vacuum and I am only too happy to join this group effort.
However, I have a problem with some of the language we are using in regards to which version we will be satisfied with.
See my post #912. I believe my approach is reasonable and most fair to every one. I want Rogers to offer us the option to either stay with the Android or allow us to pick a different smartphone.
My intent is not to dilute this campaign but rather to specifically define exactly what we will be satisfied with. Respectfully, I really think it is a mistake to graciously accept OS 1.6 and be done with this argument. You'll still be stuck with a phone with an obsolete OS.
Please answer this question:
Hypothetically speaking, if Rogers lawyers agree to release OS 1.6 to us, with the stipulation that we agree to cease all current and future Android complaints. Would you accept OS 1.6 and agree to this ruling?
If your answer is yes, I have a problem with that BUT I don't wish to fight over our differences in opinion!
sconnelly i don't think anyone here will be just satisfied with just 1.6 ,we will be happy when we have in writting that rogers will work on supporting these phones fully with all updates that are available to these phones in the future in a timely manner (2.0 /2.1 and new versions).
1.6 is the starting point but not the end,if they think so then they are in for a long battle with the HTC Dream and Magic with it's Users.
Rogers / HTC needs to support these phones they sell us fully as long as updates are available and if they do not plan to then we will continue our fight until we are satisfied customers with some type of out come.
Please answer this question:
Hypothetically speaking, if Rogers lawyers agree to release OS 1.6 to us, with the stipulation that we agree to cease all current and future Android complaints. Would you accept OS 1.6 and agree to this ruling?
Sure, we want to have a most updated firmware on our phones. But let's face it: we cannot demand updating for 2.x since HTC doesn't have this version yet. When it has been released for T-Mobile and rest of the world we can resume our fight. If for some reason HTC decide do not release 2.x for Magic/Dream at all, then hundred thousands people worldwide will join to our small group
Firstly, thanks for carrying the torch, mjschmidt. I've been lurking this thread thread for weeks now and I appreciate what you've been doing.
I saw your Tweet about suggesting an iPhone in exchange for our Magic/Dreams.
The thing is: I don't want an iPhone. I choose Android for a reason (multiple reasons). I suggest that asking for a non-Android replacement dilutes the issue. It's not what I want, and it wouldn't be a satisfactory outcome (to me).
I summarize it like so for the people who aren't familiar with the issues: ... (edited for posting efficiency - full text in original post)
So... Rogers/HTC... put some people on it and fix the problem.
Please.
I have started alerting all my networks that Rogers sold an obsolete phone into the market. In fact it was obsolete before it hit the shelves. Given the price of the device and the incentives to hook one into a 3 yr plan, this practice is unconscionable. The only way to make amends would be to support the phone as your post suggests with timely updates. It is after all a data device. Lord knows my laptop running MS XP sure gets enough updates thrown it's way.
I don't know what impact it will have but it appears that several of my contacts considering a Rogers smartphone have held off.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sconnelly
See my post #912. I believe my approach is reasonable and most fair to every one. I want Rogers to offer us the option to either stay with the Android or allow us to pick a different smartphone.
My intent is not to dilute this campaign but rather to specifically define exactly what we will be satisfied with. Respectfully, I really think it is a mistake to graciously accept OS 1.6 and be done with this argument. You'll still be stuck with a phone with an obsolete OS.
@sconnelly: I don't think anyone is disagreeing with the position that Rogers allow us to stay with Android (AND have it upgraded) or give us a different smart phone. I think it's safe to say we ALL agree to that.
I believe the difference we are having is over whether or not we should, very suddenly, go back to Rogers now and say "Remember how we were pestering you for a month to give us 1.6? Well, now we're not happy with that, we want 2.0".
It comes down to this:
We want 2.0, but I am not willing to skip 1.6 to get to 2.0 if it means waiting longer than the 2 months it would likely take to get 1.6!
I will continue to campaign to get 1.6, and if/when we get it (within the next 2 months) we can cross the next bridge, that being 2.0.
If you demand 2.0 now, and say "don't bother giving us 1.6, just work on 2.0" we will have to wait even longer. I am not prepared to wait longer than 2 months.
sconnelly i don't think anyone here will be just satisfied with just 1.6 ,we will be happy when we have in writting that rogers will work on supporting these phones fully with all updates that are available to these phones in the future in a timely manner (2.0 /2.1 and new versions).
1.6 is the starting point but not the end,if they think so then they are in for a long battle with the HTC Dream and Magic with it's Users.
Rogers / HTC needs to support these phones they sell us fully as long as updates are available and if they do not plan to then we will continue our fight until we are satisfied customers with some type of out come.
off to call Rogers and HTC right now.....
I can only speak for myself, I want the option to do an early (immediate) upgrade to any smartphone of my choice. I am going to fight for option #2, in the new year:
From post #912:"2. Renewal of our contracts - replace with a different smartphone Failing #1, Rogers must allow any Android OS 1.5 phone owner to immediately renew their contract (regardless of the termination date of their contract) with any phone of their choice at the current upgrade price (less the cost paid for their Android and applicable taxes – upon returning of their phone). If necessary, it would be reasonable to impose a restriction that the upgraded phone must be equal or greater than the price paid for the customer’s original Android phone."
Please answer this question:
Hypothetically speaking, if Rogers lawyers agree to release OS 1.6 to us, with the stipulation that we agree to cease all current and future Android complaints. Would you accept OS 1.6 and agree to this ruling?
Although you clearly state that your question is hypothetical, it brings up the bigger issue. Is this a legal matter? Is this a consumer interest story?
In my opinion this is a rhinoceros under the kitchen table for Rogers. They are trying to ignore it, but as this thread has detailed, Rogers is now complicit.
If there are enough HTC Dream / Magic users who make noise then Rogers will be forced to act. If we simply go away, then we send a clear message to Rogers and all other providers who use similar practices, that we are accepting of this treatment.
If the product was not to be supported (updated) then it should not have been sold. If it is obsolete then it is a travesty.
This is a black-eye for Rogers and will cause harm to HTC as well. I think this is a consumer interest story and a program like Marketplace may be the vehicle to uncover more on this and other issues like this within the mobile industry. I believe that we are only seeing the tip of the iceberg and all the mobile providers are keeping "dirty little secrets" on how the consumer is being hoodwinked. Follow the money and you will find the answers.
So, to your hypothetical, the answer for me is no.
Stand up for something or you will fall for anything
Last edited by damagedave; December 23rd, 2009 at 05:31 PM.
@sconnelly: I don't think anyone is disagreeing with the position that Rogers allow us to stay with Android (AND have it upgraded) or give us a different smart phone. I think it's safe to say we ALL agree to that.
I believe the difference we are having is over whether or not we should, very suddenly, go back to Rogers now and say "Remember how we were pestering you for a month to give us 1.6? Well, now we're not happy with that, we want 2.0".
It comes down to this:
We want 2.0, but I am not willing to skip 1.6 to get to 2.0 if it means waiting longer than the 2 months it would likely take to get 1.6!
I will continue to campaign to get 1.6, and if/when we get it (within the next 2 months) we can cross the next bridge, that being 2.0.
If you demand 2.0 now, and say "don't bother giving us 1.6, just work on 2.0" we will have to wait even longer. I am not prepared to wait longer than 2 months.
While I completely agree with everything you said, my issue is the language used. Keep in mind, Rogers is infamous for misunderstanding what there customers want. I do not want them to erroneously believe that offering us OS 1.6 will shut us up for good.
Even if OS 1.6 is released, I still want the option of upgrading now because many issues that I am experiencing (and many others) are not solved with OS 1.6.
The bad reviews we are posting in the Wireless section of Rogers website are starting to show up... and are forcing some answers. This is taken directly from the (current) first review:
Response from Rogers: By RogersMary, Social Media, December 23, 2009
Rogers has requested the OS update. HTC has indicated that they had not planned to upgrade the Rogers Dream or Magic to 1.6. However, they agreed to investigate all options and get back to us.
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I just got off the phone with the tech support. My phone got heat up and burnt my ear. It was fully charged this morning and now it's down to 5%. They told me to stop charging it. This will be my 3rd unit i'm getting. Sigh....
Has anyone actually asked customer care for an early upgrade or cancellation of their current contract. In the new year, I plan to ask for an early upgrade based on the problems I've been having with the HTC Magic.
HTC is aware of the problem and has is being discussed at the highest levels and working with rogers to find a solution.....blah,blah,blah.......
OMG Rogers reps customer care have no clue to this issue and pretty well have to educate them in regards to this problem.....second level management don't even have any answers or soultions....forget trying to get a iphone or better handset they are not budging on this area and are not prepaired to do anything about it at this point.......maby mary could send out a internal memo regarding htc dream....
The bad reviews we are posting in the Wireless section of Rogers website are starting to show up... and are forcing some answers. This is taken directly from the (current) first review:
Response from Rogers: By RogersMary, Social Media, December 23, 2009
Rogers has requested the OS update. HTC has indicated that they had not planned to upgrade the Rogers Dream or Magic to 1.6. However, they agreed to investigate all options and get back to us.
It is good to see that the pressure is at least showing evidence of a pulse but..
If you look back at posts made earlier, this is the same hogwash corporate BS that has been peddled for almost three months.
Rogers has been talking out of both sides of their face, throwing HTC under the bus and frankly doing everything except serving their customer base whom are clearly dissatisfied. If you are in a contract, then Rogers has a prisoner. If you are free to move to another provider then you are coveted.
Rogers understands this: You have a value of $5000 on the open market, provided you are locked up. How you are treated during your contract is of no real concern. You are cash flow nothing more, nothing less. Their business survives or dies on cash flow.
Unless something impacts this bottom line nothing will change.
Having said that Rogers is no better or worse than Bell or Telus. We need real competition in Canada. Globalive may not be enough but it is a start.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Andy2010
I just got off the phone with the tech support. My phone got heat up and burnt my ear. It was fully charged this morning and now it's down to 5%. They told me to stop charging it. This will be my 3rd unit i'm getting. Sigh....
Has anyone actually asked customer care for an early upgrade or cancellation of their current contract. In the new year, I plan to ask for an early upgrade based on the problems I've been having with the HTC Magic.
I will let everyone know the results.
good luck with that just spent over a hour one rep and two managers later and the out come was sorry we can't do anything the option is not available unless u would like to purchase one of our referbs(at a stupid price).....
i suggest sending a email regarding your issue to the office of the president via their website,as of now theya re not doing anything about it but keep the pressure up ....i will be firing off my email to them tonite.......
It is good to see that the pressure is at least showing evidence of a pulse but..
If you look back at posts made earlier, this is the same hogwash corporate BS that has been peddled for almost three months.
...
Yes, I know that it is the same response we got earlier but I think this is the first time they are issuing this sort of statement on their official web site (and blaming HTC publicly).
Apparently, it won't work on the Rogers network. See Engadget. Seems like it will work on Telus although I haven't been able to confirm that.
It will work on all networks in Canada. The 3G radio in it will not work for Rogers/Telus/Bell as it does not support the correct frequencies. It will, however, work with WIND (assuming the information about WIND is correct).
Summary, no 3G except on WIND, but EDGE and GPRS will work just fine for all networks.
Last edited by zortoflaven; December 23rd, 2009 at 07:05 PM.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zortoflaven
It will work on all networks in Canada. The 3G radio in it will not work for Rogers/Telus/Bell as it does not support the correct frequencies. It will, however, work with WIND (assuming the information about WIND is correct).
Summary, no 3G except on WIND, but EDGE and GPRS will work just fine for all networks.
Well i guess it's better than what we have right now. It's running on android 2.1
Information on it is still pretty sketchy. It's not unreasonable to think that they might make a version with AT&T 3G radios in it at some point. That would be perfect for us Rogers customers.
It will work on all networks in Canada. The 3G radio in it will not work for Rogers/Telus/Bell as it does not support the correct frequencies. It will, however, work with WIND (assuming the information about WIND is correct).
Summary, no 3G except on WIND, but EDGE and GPRS will work just fine for all networks.
Technically of course, you are correct, but having a 3G phone that doesn't work on 3G is kind of pointless, don't you think?
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sconnelly
While I completely agree with everything you said, my issue is the language used. Keep in mind, Rogers is infamous for misunderstanding what there customers want. I do not want them to erroneously believe that offering us OS 1.6 will shut us up for good.
Even if OS 1.6 is released, I still want the option of upgrading now because many issues that I am experiencing (and many others) are not solved with OS 1.6.
@sconnelly: Okay, so we're arguing semantics. How's this:
ATTENTION ROGERS: As customers of Rogers wireless who have in many cases been very loyal to you, we demand that we now be provided with the service we were promised when we became early adopters of the new Android phones with your company in Canada. Specifically we are seeking the following:
1. Given that we know the 1.6 version of the Android OS has been available since October, and that it has been proven to work on the Rogers HTC Magic and Dream (apparently with Exchange), and given that many, if not all of us, were told by Rogers representatives that these phones would be updated and kept current, and given that without the update to 1.6 our phones are quickly being rendered incapable of running the latest Android applications, and are missing the newest increased functionality of Android 1.6, and given that we know this update could be made available from HTC at the request of Rogers (providing that HTC and Rogers are willing to undertake the necessary customization for the Rogers system); we do hereby demand that we be provided with the Android 1.6 OS update by February 28, 2010, unless Rogers and HTC can, instead, provide us with version 2.0 of the Android operating system for the Rogers HTC Magic and Dream by February 28, 2010.
2. In the event that we have received the 1.6 update by February 28, 2010, and in the event that we have not received the 2.0 update by the same date, we demand that Rogers and HTC work diligently to provide us with the 2.0 version of Android in a timely fashion, but no later than August 1, 2010.
3. In the event that we have received both Android 1.6 by February 28, 2010, and version 2.0 by August 1, 2010 (or there about), we further demand that Rogers and HTC agree to work to provide us with all future updates to the HTC Magic and Dream that can be proven to function properly on those handsets, and within a reasonable amount of time, understanding as we do that updates beyond 2.0 might not work with the HTC Magic and Dream as it has yet to be properly tested.
4. If Rogers fails to provide, or promise to provide, version 1.6 by February 28, 2010, (or has failed to provide, or promise to provide version 2.0 by February 28, 2010 in the event that 1.6 was "skipped" in favour of version 2.0), Rogers will allow purchasers of the HTC Magic and Dream still running the stock version of Rogers Android 1.5 to exchange their phones for another phone of equal value, or greater value if we agree to pay the difference, including the option of exchanging for an iPhone of equivalent or similar value (understanding that we may have to pay the difference); or Rogers will allow purchasers of the HTC Magic and Dream to be released from their contracts with no penalty, and no Early Termination Fee, provided they return in good condition the HTC Magic or Dream purchased.
How's that?
I'm sorry, I haven't included the LG Eve, only because LG is a whole other kettle of fish, and we need more info.
Last edited by mjschmidt; December 23rd, 2009 at 09:11 PM.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bgoody
Technically of course, you are correct, but having a 3G phone that doesn't work on 3G is kind of pointless, don't you think?
ATTENTION GOOGLE NEXUS ONE
A quick friendly request to those of us discussing the Google Nexus One phone, while it does have some connection to the problems we are having with Rogers, we would like to try to keep this thread specifically for the discussion of Rogers, HTC, and Android 1.6 (and 2.0 to some extent). This will help us to keep it clear for Updates, and to avoid confusion if/when RogersMary pops in to chat with us on the issue.
A new thread has been created here: Google Nexus One Android phone in Canada? for the Google Nexus One phone and its impact in Canada. Please try to keep that discussion in there?
@sconnelly: Okay, so we're arguing semantics. How's this:
ATTENTION ROGERS: As customers of Rogers wireless who have in many cases been very loyal to you, we demand that we now be provided with the service we were promised when we became early adopters of the new Android phones with your company in Canada. Specifically we are seeking the following:
1. Given that we know the 1.6 version of the Android OS has been available since October, and that it has been proven to work on the Rogers HTC Magic and Dream (apparently with Exchange), and given that many, if not all of us, were told by Rogers representatives that these phones would be updated and kept current, and given that without the update to 1.6 our phones are quickly being rendered incapable of running the latest Android applications, and are missing the newest increased functionality of Android 1.6, and given that we know this update could be made available from HTC at the request of Rogers (providing that HTC and Rogers are willing to undertake the necessary customization for the Rogers system); we do hereby demand that we be provided with the Android 1.6 OS update by February 28, 2010, unless Rogers and HTC can, instead, provide us with version 2.0 of the Android operating system for the Rogers HTC Magic and Dream by February 28, 2010.
2. In the event that we have received the 1.6 update by February 28, 2010, and in the event that we have not received the 2.0 update by the same date, we demand that Rogers and HTC work diligently to provide us with the 2.0 version of Android in a timely fashion, but no later than August 1, 2010.
3. In the event that we have received both Android 1.6 by February 28, 2010, and version 2.0 by August 1, 2010 (or there about), we further demand that Rogers and HTC agree to work to provide us with all future updates to the HTC Magic and Dream that can be proven to function properly on those handsets, and within a reasonable amount of time, understanding as we do that updates beyond 2.0 might not work with the HTC Magic and Dream as it has yet to be properly tested.
4. If Rogers fails to provide, or promise to provide, version 1.6 by February 28, 2010, (or has failed to provide, or promise to provide version 2.0 by February 28, 2010 in the event that 1.6 was "skipped" in favour of version 2.0), Rogers will allow purchasers of the HTC Magic and Dream still running the stock version of Rogers Android 1.5 to exchange their phones for another phone of equal value, or greater value if we agree to pay the difference, including the option of exchanging for an iPhone of equivalent or similar value (understanding that we may have to pay the difference); or Rogers will allow purchasers of the HTC Magic and Dream to be released from their contracts with no penalty, and no Early Termination Fee.
How's that?
I'm sorry, I haven't included the LG Eve, only because LG is a whole other kettle of fish, and we need more info.
I think this is not unreasonable and very fair and gives them ample time to get their ducks in a row but i think maby we are giving them to much time on 2.0 with the way rollouts are going we could be at 4.0 by then......lol....
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chrisyak
I think this is not unreasonable and very fair and gives them ample time to get their ducks in a row but i think maby we are giving them to much time on 2.0 with the way rollouts are going we could be at 4.0 by then......lol....
I'm trying to be realistic, this is Rogers we're dealing with after all. ;-)
I got a LG Eve unit for review from @RogersMiranda, which I will be returning back to Rogers next week. My review of it is up on my blog @ Puleen Patel
Personally, I like the Magic way better then the Eve. The touch sensitivity on the Eve is horrible.
It's marked as declined, and I'm wondering if anyone knows whether or not Google employees ever check back into a thread once is declined?
Maybe we need to bombard those Google help forums with requests for Google to lean on HTC and Rogers to get this done?
I don't think this discussion belongs to that thread. Android team released all updates for OS up to version 2.0. You can download code, and build your own custom ROM yet this not what we're looking for. Right?
We certainly can use other Google's forums to create pressure. I don't think Google can say to Rogers what to do, but it definitely has a hearing ear in HTC
I find it interesting that in one random forum post I stumbled on out in the world a user from Switzerland asked if he could update his HTC Magic with 1.6 to the new 2.0. A single reply said sure, click over to the official site yadayada. Whether or not if that is 100% accurate the new user was already on 1.6 wondering about the next step. Not 21 pages of confusion and provider nonsense. Does the world laugh at the utterly 3rd world behaviour of Canadian telecommunications? I know I do.
I'm sorry, I haven't included the LG Eve, only because LG is a whole other kettle of fish, and we need more info.
Not a big deal, I have been blasting LG on my own front. I would share my conversations with you, but don't really have the time. If there are any breakthroughs, I will let everyone know for sure. Keep up the work against HTC and Rogers and I will do the same with LG.
I find it interesting that in one random forum post I stumbled on out in the world a user from Switzerland asked if he could update his HTC Magic with 1.6 to the new 2.0. A single reply said sure, click over to the official site yadayada. Whether or not if that is 100% accurate the new user was already on 1.6 wondering about the next step. Not 21 pages of confusion and provider nonsense. Does the world laugh at the utterly 3rd world behaviour of Canadian telecommunications? I know I do.
oh I know. The point is that the user was already on 1.6 and oblivious to our plight with 1.5. I'm on 1.6 and for now I'm happy. Much nicer than 1.5 and for the time being will run everything I see on the market including root only apps. I did try a Sense UI ROM for a week. Very very pretty but indeed only 1.5. However that 1.5 version was better than the bland and semi broken 1.5 from Rogers. I'm surprised that Rogers didn't go with that one, way more wow factor and no performance issues.
oh I know. The point is that the user was already on 1.6 and oblivious to our plight with 1.5.
You're wrong, the original message is:
Quote:
Originally Posted by MiluX
Can I upgrade my HTC Magic (Android 1.6) to Android 2.0 ?
I'm going to buy a HTC Magic soon. (I'm in Switzerland and we don't have the HTC Hero at this time...). I've seen many videos about Android 2.0 and I would have liked to know if I could upgrade to 2.0 after biying the smartphone ?
HTC have not released neither 1.6 nor 2.0 Android ROM for Nordic phones (at least I cannot see it in official download section).
HTC have not released neither 1.6 nor 2.0 Android ROM for Nordic phones (at least I cannot see it in official download section).
I don't care what the official releases are for Nordic or Canadian phones. They clearly use a different numbering scheme, 2.2 doesn't exist for anyone but they call it that (In Sweden where I read it). The user might have misquoted his own current version. He said he was on 1.6. We don't officially have 1.6 either but I can say with certainty that I am on 1.6. yep, for sure I'm on 1.6
I'm only saying that it was cute to see what other users are concerned about when they are already a step above us. All things relative. I'm reminded why I stayed away from cell phones in this tech backwards continent for so long.
I don't think this discussion belongs to that thread. Android team released all updates for OS up to version 2.0. You can download code, and build your own custom ROM yet this not what we're looking for. Right?
We certainly can use other Google's forums to create pressure. I don't think Google can say to Rogers what to do, but it definitely has a hearing ear in HTC
I agree, except there is a serious flaw in the Android business model that allows manufacturers to build phones with custom hardware and related drivers that are not released as open source. I addressed this in another thread.
>You can download code, and build your own custom ROM yet this not
>what we're looking for. Right?
This is not entirely true. Sure, you can install OS 2.1 on your HTC Magic or Dream BUT not all the hardware is going to work! Good luck reverse engineering the camera code. This is going to continue being a problem until the Google team makes some fundamental changes!
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Here is another fun and interesting Twitter thread between a now _lost_ Rogers customer and RogersMary. We _are_ being heard, and we _are_ affecting consumer decisions.
