Do we have a single piece of HARD evidence pointing towards a 12/15 release? Unless I see some leaked internal documents, I have no more faith in Verizon.
you mean you had faith before? and no, theres no hard evidence, just like their hasnt been since the original announcement they would be carrying it, everything else is just fluff
And the argument is that adding an app isn't modifying the OS, thats the whole thing. It is still a pure ANDROID experience. What it isn't is skinned in BLUR, Sense, or Touch Wiz.
Why does Verizon need to add the app?
If someone wants the apps they can add them themselves. Older feature phones didn't come pre-installed with backup assistant, you downloaded it if you wanted it.
BTW, thought I should share my RS experience. Lady said they don't have any in stock and they will release on the 19th. I personally don't think she knew what she was talking about and am still banking on the 15th however. FWIW.
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If my understanding of law is correct encrypting a boot loader on a piece of equipment you have bought is illegal and also voiding a contract when a user tries remove that encryption and brick their phone is also illegal. I think Google has enough exposure and market share in smart phones that a route of actually taking the carriers and manufacturers to task in the court would be a good course of action.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eibook
Why does Verizon need to add the app?
If someone wants the apps they can add them themselves. Older feature phones didn't come pre-installed with backup assistant, you downloaded it if you wanted it.
Just sayin...
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Also - the headphone jack is on the bottom likely due to the curved screen. It also just makes a hell of a lot more sense. Think about it, put your phone into your pocket.. which way is it facing? The bottom faces up, so the jack there will too.
Heh, I didn't know it until I read this but I agree. I always carry in my pocket and always put it in top down.
If my understanding of law is correct encrypting a boot loader on a piece of equipment you have bought is illegal and also voiding a contract when a user tries remove that encryption and brick their phone is also illegal. I think Google has enough exposure and market share in smart phones that a route of actually taking the carriers and manufacturers to task in the court would be a good course of action.
Manufacturers can do whatever they want to their phones, unless it does something to violate your privacy or some other such illegal action. It is not illegal for them to ship with an encrypted bootloader.
That's part of the downside to having an open OS. Anyone in the chain can be modify it ad nauseam.
I know people are unhappy with the fact that the backup app and my vzw apps are loaded on the phone. However, to me it's no different than some of the Google bloat that will also no doubt be on there that I have no use for (latitude, places, and no doubt g+/g+ messenger)
There is no such thing as a phone that will have everything that makes one person happy, these phones are made for the masses and ultimately there is no doubt that there will likely be one thing that everyone will be slightly displeased with, but we will still love the phone and still buy it once we are able to
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lol now everyone is worrying about updates?!
You guys were getting yourselves sick over 2 Verizon apps. Then the camera. Then Google Wallet. Now you are worried about updates?
I'm going to post this again. It's a great read from Android Central's Jerry Hildenbrand. For those of who you don't know, Jerry is a total Android nerd, probably bigger than anyone in this thread. He's a hacker and a developer. He KNOWS his stuff. And I value his opinion and perspective over some no-name article writer over at XDA trying to make a name for themselves by stirring the pot.
I'll quote a few of the major points. IMO, the article responds to every point brought up about the Nexus by everyone here.
Quote:
Google Wallet isn't part of AOSP (The Android Open Source Project). It's included with the Sprint Nexus S 4G (which is the only phone to offer Google Wallet without hacks) because of some sort of deal between Google and Sprint that we don't like, understand, or really know anything about. Come to think of it, the same thing can be said about Google Voice integration. Why Sprint-only, you ask? Like I mentioned, we don't really know, but Google needs somewhere to test these things and Sprint was willing. Let's be clear here -- no other Nexus device has ever had Google Wallet without hacking it on. This means the Verizon Galaxy Nexus is just like the penta-band unlocked GSM Galaxy Nexus in this regard. Or any Nexus S that's not the Sprint Nexus S 4G.
The MyVerizon app and some backup assistant app aren't part of AOSP either. They have no business being on a Nexus device, except for one thing -- both are "required" for Android devices on the Verizon network. Them's the rules, and even Google will follow them. Contact backup assistant is there because Verizon doesn't want to be swamped with phone calls about people not being able to migrate their contacts to Android. It happens more than we think. Lose backup assistant, and spend thousands in unwarranted tech support. Verizon is too smart for that (you don't become the top carrier in the U.S. unless you're smart and a tiny bit evil) so you bet your ass they are going to cover all the bases they can.
MyVerizon is now needed because we live in a time where unlimited data is slowly phasing out. Verizon went with tiered plans versus bandwidth throttling, so they are obligated to let you know exactly how much data they say you used. Remember those class-action suits where Verizon had to pay every person on earth $12? Verizon doesn't want anything like that to happen again. Just as important, current Verizon customers need to be able to have access to apps they purchased through the Verizon area of the Market and Vcast. MyVerizon helps authenticate those phones so they have access to them. Just because you will root and remove MyVerizon and never use VCAST doesn't mean everyone else will.
Finally, theres the matter of updates and inclusion in AOSP. Google will write all the updates for the Verizon Galaxy Nexus. Read it again if you need to, let that sink in for a minute, then we'll continue. Yes, there will be a bit of extra testing involved with each to make sure the Verizon apps work and that network specific code works as written, but we're talking minor differences, not weeks and weeks of delay. Nobody really thinks Sprint or T-Mobile or AT&T has no hand in network testing on existing Nexus devices do they? Any delay in updates will be small, and still miles better than the Fascinate fiasco.
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Last edited by MMcCraryNJ; December 11th, 2011 at 10:59 AM.
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although we will probably have the phone in our hands in a few days. it irks me a little that we will probably never know the reasoning for the delay.
I know, I know - verizon never committed to a date, the dont "owe" us anything, etc.
so what? consumers need to be active and engaged and demanding transparency in our corporations. I want to know as much about a product I am buying as I can - where do the supplies come from, how do they treat workers, the environment, how do they handle competition.
They may or may not give it to me, but it is my right to ask for it.
Look, I am not leaving verizon over this so, sure, it wont hurt them now - but they should consider the value of consumer loyalty goes way beyond a single purchase.
Every company stumbles at some point, and there will come a time when they will need loyal consumers to stick with them through tough times - look at netflix. You can bet if zappos has trouble, I will give them the benefit of the doubt. Verizon? I'm gone.
But I disagree that I should just stay quiet because Verizon has meet their bare minimum obligation by not missing a nonexistent release date.
sorry- went on kind of a rant there
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VzW appreciates the extra profit from your line when you go unsubsidized. The 'free agent fee' is pure profit.
There are pluses and minuses to subsidized/unsubsidized, but neither sticks it to VzW.
My thought process is that I will buy it subsidized from Verizon. If I stay with them for the entire contract length, great and I just saved myself $300. If not, then I will pay the early termination fee and be at right around the same price as an unsubsidized phone. Am I failing to see something here?
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for shi_s and giggles:
Just called Verizon-
CSR: "Oh the Nexus, thats going to be a very good phone. I think it's coming out next month.."
Me (thinking in my head): Lady, don't even go there..
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Quote:
Originally Posted by compwagon
Manufacturers can do whatever they want to their phones, unless it does something to violate your privacy or some other such illegal action. It is not illegal for them to ship with an encrypted bootloader.
Let me correct myself. Shipping it encrypted is one thing but to not allow someone to unlock it is another. It would be like buying a box of cereal but the box won't let you open it except between the hours of 8am and 12pm.
BTW calling VZW 'Big Red' reminds me of the USSR.....I suppose that analogy is used in that context
If my understanding of law is correct encrypting a boot loader on a piece of equipment you have bought is illegal and also voiding a contract when a user tries remove that encryption and brick their phone is also illegal. I think Google has enough exposure and market share in smart phones that a route of actually taking the carriers and manufacturers to task in the court would be a good course of action.
Quote:
Originally Posted by compwagon
Manufacturers can do whatever they want to their phones, unless it does something to violate your privacy or some other such illegal action. It is not illegal for them to ship with an encrypted bootloader.
That's part of the downside to having an open OS. Anyone in the chain can be modify it ad nauseam.
It isn't illegal per say, but it does violate some FCC regs to lock the phone. The loop hole for any carrier is that they must maintain a level of "reasonable" network management..
How do you quantify "reasonable" in this situation.. Well thats up to the lawyers..
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sushibagel
Agreed, I'm a bit surprised everyone wasn't all over that link.
Not to be a major dick but why does this matter. Everyone thinks this is a huge new thing but it isn't. The NS and NS4G got different updates and such, they were not identical with getting updates.
But honestly I have taken a whopping 1 OTA in my life on my own phone. It was driving with my brand new OG and it was going from 2.0 to 2.0.1. I was driving home from Verizon. I'm buying a nexus so that the phone will be 'supported' by google not updated. I will never take a OTA update, rather ill get a rom with the update after the one all you complainers are just getting. The hardware support is what we want and despite it not being in the source yet it will be there once its released and the fact that the devs can build a rom for a phone no one has yet built off the GSM varient proves my case...
The whole point of a google experience phone should be direct updates from google and no Carrier bloat, kind of like the Android version of an iPhone.
With the amount of pull that vzw has shown so far, adding bloat, removing GW, etc, I dont think we will see direct updates from google, not without the touch of verizon. I think the real google experience phone will only be the GSM variant nexus.
I don't think we will see anymore phones like my og Droid on vzn, not unless they are legally forced to open up their network to compatible devices
Updates to the VZW iPhone have been delayed compared to the ATT version. It has to do with the different networks and yeah...probably a VZW thing on top of it. I guess we'll know if it's just a CDMA thing or a VZW thing next year should Sprint get updates the same time as ATT while VZW lags behind.
You guys were getting yourselves sick over 2 Verizon apps. Then the camera. Then Google Voice. Now you are worried about updates?
I'm going to post this again. It's a great read from Android Central's Jerry Hildenbrand. For those of who you don't know, Jerry is a total Android nerd, probably bigger than anyone in this thread. He's a hacker and a developer. He KNOWS his stuff. And I value his opinion and perspective over some no-name article writer over at XDA trying to make a name for themselves by stirring the pot.
for shi_s and giggles:
Just called Verizon-
CSR: "Oh the Nexus, thats going to be a very good phone. I think it's coming out next month.."
Me (thinking in my head): Lady, don't even go there..
LOL. Not to stir the pot...because I think I'm going to have a heart attack with all the SALT I've had lately, but I have a friend that works at a Corporate store that told me the same. Next month. I've resigned myself to..."whatever". We'll know when we know. I'm going back to my theory of not really "wanting" it and then it will come (just like love/one of my prior analogies).
What are your real world impressions of the phone radio strength? Will it hold signal in weaker areas?
How does the GPS work? Is it slow to obtain location like many sammys in the past?
Is the camera as bad as has been shown on reviews?
Review?
Thanks!
WRT reception, I feel the bars report low. The GNex seems to have reception on par with the OG Droid despite seldom reporting more than 2 bars. I live in a rural area and drive thru farm land, so I guess I'd say its fine in weaker areas.
I think the camera is fine. It won't replace a real camera, but I don't think its realistic to expect it to. It's leagues better than the OG. Leagues.
GPS is outstanding. More accurate and faster lock than the OG.
THE PHONE GETS HOT. I think this is gonna be a source for much complaints from casual users. I'm quite used to it coming from a highly overclocked OG, but many people are not. The screen dissipates at least half the total heat, which is new to me. I think the major contributor is the 4G radio.
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True, the "bloat" I wish I could remove are the Facebook and Twitter app. I don't use Facebook and I have TweetDeck for Twitter. And maybe the YouTube app. You cannot truly remove any of them, just their updates.
There is neither Facebook or Twitter on the Nexus. At least not mine. Rooted now too
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Well, the Chief was in class all day yesterday UGH and I missed a whole bunch of posts!
SO whats new besides Google Wallet being the delay?
Not that I care about it... there's only a handful of gas stations anywhere around me that use that payment system and I don't use them
TIA
Not mucho. A nice shot of a case of GN's behind a glass case in a store is about it.
As for the wallet, you bring up a point with me with the gas stations. I would have to choose if I want to dig out my wallet and card or pull my phone from the cradle and bang it against the pump.
As for the Google boys video commercial for Gwallet where they toss the wallet out the window as to make a suggestion it will no longer be needed...... Gwallet will not work if and when I need to show my Drivers or PI license, Carry permits and ...........
We Wait.........
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Look at the history of the page...that little nugget was added on November 6th. Prior to that, Nexus phones were purportedly "sim free with an unlockable bootloader"
Seems that Nexushood is a moving target...
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WRT reception, I feel the bars report low. The GNex seems to have reception on par with the OG Droid despite seldom reporting more than 2 bars. I live in a rural area and drive thru farm land, so I guess I'd say its fine in weaker areas.
I think the camera is fine. It won't replace a real camera, but I don't think its realistic to expect it to. It's leagues better than the OG. Leagues.
GPS is outstanding. More accurate and faster lock than the OG.
THE PHONE GETS HOT. I think this is gonna be a source for much complaints from casual users. I'm quite used to it coming from a highly overclocked OG, but many people are not. The screen dissipates at least half the total heat, which is new to me. I think the major contributor is the 4G radio.
What area of the country do you live in? (farmland is why I ask)
Yes, and I think with good reason. In the past, everyone has gotten Nexus updates all at the same time. One of the reasons a lot of people were excited about this device is that it would give them the most cutting-edge Android perpetually, out of the box. Yes, you could root and unlock it, but you could already do that with many device (albeit with more effort). This would give you updates as they arrived, straight from Google. At least, even if never explicitly stated by Google, that was the tradition.
As your cited article pointed out, this likely did involve some behind-the-scenes testing. So, no, the updates didn't bypass the carriers per se; the carriers just didn't really get the way. Because the carriers interfered so little that it didn't matter, I think most people didn't think they were involved at all. Maybe that was naive of them, but it was likely the case. This, however, is Verizon. As Motorola recently told us, they notoriously take 2-3 months to approve any update to any device. Google isn't going to wait that long. They are going to release the GSM update, and then let VZW continue testing the LTE version. That is going to leave buyers of the Nexus with a version of Android that is at least 2 months behind the cutting edge, which was the main reason a lot of us wanted this device, despite knowing that quad-core is just around the corner. So, with an article containing a quote that indicates that not only are we likely to get delayed, but even some GSM owners are getting delayed as well... is it reasonable for us to get upset that the straight-from-Google update tradition is now gone? I think so.
TL;DR: Updates were one of the main reasons a lot of us wanted this phone, and at least for stock, that seems to be slipping away. I think that's a reasonable thing to get upset about.
Hey Cggorman, congrats on getting a Nexus early! I was wondering which area of the U.S. you were able to snag one if you don't mind telling. Thanks in advance
In jersey we don't pump our own gas, (let's get the joke out of the way: We pump our fists) so I definitely do not want the gas station worker to be putting those mechanic hands on my GN!!!
Quote:
Originally Posted by gapi
Not mucho. A nice shot of a case of GN's behind a glass case in a store is about it.
As for the wallet, you bring up a point with me with the gas stations. I would have to choose if I want to dig out my wallet and card or pull my phone from the cradle and bang it against the pump.
As for the Google boys video commercial for Gwallet where they toss the wallet out the window as to make a suggestion it will no longer be needed...... Gwallet will not work if and when I need to show my Drivers or PI license, Carry permits and ...........
We Wait.........
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TL;DR: Updates were one of the main reasons a lot of us wanted this phone, and at least for stock, that seems to be slipping away. I think that's a reasonable thing to get upset about.
Then you should lean heavily on the Devs, all they have to do is compile the update and see what changed and make their own update for the phone, regardless of GSM or CDMA-LTE.
If your friend can pick you up a $10 Costco gift card before the 15th, you can use that like a "guest pass" if you use it to pay for part of the total at the register.
At least that's how they did it a few months ago, according to a friend. It's worth a shot, probably.
I inquired extensively and with explicitly about a guest pass at my local Costco yesterday and you cannot buy anything unless you are signed up......
You can walk around and look but have to sign up as a member to purchase. The register will not ring you up unless you have a membership card. Period. You cannot use the gift card like a guest pass. It's just an incentive for you to sign up. Sign up today and get $10.00 off.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mountainlover
Would you please elaborate? I keep reading things along this line and it makes me wonder if this is even the best choice for me. I'm NOT a tech person. I can't tell you how many times dh has had to help me out with my computer. He's not a phone guy has never helped me with my DX, although I've never really needed any help. But is the GN going to be harder for people like me to use? He would never let me hear the end of it if I bought it and couldn't figure out how to use it. Do you think the Rezound is a better choice for the average consumer?
I think the ReZound or even the (shudder) Razr is a better choice for a non-tech user. Please understand, the Nexus (all of them) are Pure Google experieince, you don't have apps that hold your hand like on most phones (yes I know, bloat, bloat).
Think of it this way - if you were going to buy a new computer, would you want Windows 7 on it, or the newest, bleeding edge version of Windows 8 which you've never seen? Of course a computer nerd wants the latest and the greatest - figuring out the new software and learning how to use is part of the fun!!!
For a normal person, who wants, new, fast easy, and it just works....... bleeding edge ain't so great! This is the FIRST phone with the new version of Android. The phone has no buttons on it at all. Here is an example:
When you are at the home screen, and want to go into settings, you do this:
Hit the MENU button
Choose settings
Change whatever you need to change.
It was like that in Android 1.6, 2.0, 2.1, 2.2, 2.3, etc, etc - you hit that sequence without even THINKING about it.
You CANT do that in ICS and on the Nexus - there is no menu button - the way you interface with the phone is DIFFERENT now......
Is it better? Is it worse? Google thinks it's better, that's why they changed it, but the bottom line is, you will be learing a new way of interacting with your phone.
For some people, that IS the biggest selling point! For others, it wil be a huge PITA.
I'm not trying to scare you away from the Nexus, just know going in that its gonna be a like a new car, and when you go to hit the cruise control, you are gonna accidentally turn on the windshield wipers a few times before you learn the new layout and controls........
Hope this helps you decide.
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It isn't illegal per say, but it does violate some FCC regs to lock the phone. The loop hole for any carrier is that they must maintain a level of "reasonable" network management..
How do you quantify "reasonable" in this situation.. Well thats up to the lawyers..
I think you're referring to the C-block (LTE) spectrum auction rules on open network access. All those say is that VZW can't block or restrict an app from running on the network. Most literally, this would mean that they can't perform network packet filtering based on originating app. It remains to be seen whether or not that will be interpreted figuratively as well (e.g., strong-arming Google to remove Wallet as terms for accepting the Nexus).
These only apply to Verizon themselves, as the carrier. If the manufacturer wants to build a phone with a locked bootloader (i.e., if they want to build the phone in such a way that it only allows one version of the OS on-board), then they are free to do so. They didn't buy the C-block spectrum, and are thus not bound by the auction rules.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bradm77;3625753[HIDE
]I think the ReZound or even the (shudder) Razr is a better choice for a non-tech user. Please understand, the Nexus (all of them) are Pure Google experieince, you don't have apps that hold your hand like on most phones (yes I know, bloat, bloat).
Think of it this way - if you were going to buy a new computer, would you want Windows 7 on it, or the newest, bleeding edge version of Windows 8 which you've never seen? Of course a computer nerd wants the latest and the greatest - figuring out the new software and learning how to use is part of the fun!!!
For a normal person, who wants, new, fast easy, and it just works....... bleeding edge ain't so great! This is the FIRST phone with the new version of Android. The phone has no buttons on it at all. Here is an example:
When you are at the home screen, and want to go into settings, you do this:
Hit the MENU button
Choose settings
Change whatever you need to change.
It was like that in Android 1.6, 2.0, 2.1, 2.2, 2.3, etc, etc - you hit that sequence without even THINKING about it.
You CANT do that in ICS and on the Nexus - there is no menu button - the way you interface with the phone is DIFFERENT now......
Is it better? Is it worse? Google thinks it's better, that's why they changed it, but the bottom line is, you will be learing a new way of interacting with your phone.
For some people, that IS the biggest selling point! For others, it wil be a huge PITA[/HIDE].
I'm not trying to scare you away from the Nexus, just know going in that its gonna be a like a new car, and when you go to hit the cruise control, you are gonna accidentally turn on the windshield wipers a few times before you learn the new layout and controls........
Hope this helps you decide.
I love your analogy!
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cggorman
WRT reception, I feel the bars report low. The GNex seems to have reception on par with the OG Droid despite seldom reporting more than 2 bars. I live in a rural area and drive thru farm land, so I guess I'd say its fine in weaker areas.
I think the camera is fine. It won't replace a real camera, but I don't think its realistic to expect it to. It's leagues better than the OG. Leagues.
GPS is outstanding. More accurate and faster lock than the OG.
THE PHONE GETS HOT. I think this is gonna be a source for much complaints from casual users. I'm quite used to it coming from a highly overclocked OG, but many people are not. The screen dissipates at least half the total heat, which is new to me. I think the major contributor is the 4G radio.
Are you on 4g though? Saying farm land just curious if u get 4g and wondering about 4g radio...
And by hot can you get temp? How hot is it? my rezound is constantly in the 115's and have reached 140 before.
Thanks. Just really wanna no if 4g radio is good. The rezounds is excellent
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Last edited by TheRoosevelt; December 11th, 2011 at 11:16 AM.
The Galaxy Nexus is the third official phone contracted by Google and the first phone to come with Android 4.0 Ice Cream Sandwich. Specs include a 1.2GHz dual-core processor, 1GB of RAM, 16/32GB of internal storage, a 4.65 inch 720p HD Super AMOLED... Read More
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