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Old October 20th, 2011, 02:55 PM   #13751 (permalink)
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Didn't the guy on Google+ from Chicago that got a hands on preview from a friend say that the phone was running on Verizon's network? Why would this be so if the phone was not coming to Verizon?

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Old October 20th, 2011, 02:56 PM   #13752 (permalink)
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So how long will it be before the Nexus is revealed as a 4430 also?

Before drawing and quartering me, I'd just point out that it wouldn't be the first time that a BIOS or sysinfo reporting tool misidentified a CPU. If a unique chip ID wasn't recognized for some reason, it could've said Well it's definitely in the OMAP4 family but it's faster than the official 1.0GHz 4430, so let's assume it's the 4460!

The bottom line question is: How likely is it that Motorola and Samsung would both release 1.2GHz processors in the same family at the same time, but one of them's a 4430 and the other's a 4460? I'd say possible but unlikely.
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Old October 20th, 2011, 02:56 PM   #13753 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by AntimonyER View Post
Yeah I am halfway tempted to take a trip over to the RAZR forums to see how they are taking the news of the 4430...
You guys are so mean, but I must admit, I was chuckling when I saw that news too......
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Old October 20th, 2011, 02:56 PM   #13754 (permalink)
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i dont know why i bother even reading these comments, no real useful information about the device, only speculations of rumors where its going..... i agree with OTD its real easy to start rumors, funny thing is though, as i post this 6 more posts will appear before me once i hit Post Quick Reply



haha i was right! 6!!
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Old October 20th, 2011, 02:59 PM   #13755 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by AntimonyER View Post
Yeah I am halfway tempted to take a trip over to the RAZR forums to see how they are taking the news of the 4430...

Not too well. I went from an advocate to an adversary. IMO, Motorola are deceptive twits and screwing consumers over if a 4430.

Added: The gpu will scale up, but the 4430 has to work harder than the 4460 to get to 1.2ghz. This means more heat and less battery life, with a FIXED battery? Nuts.
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Old October 20th, 2011, 03:00 PM   #13756 (permalink)
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I was referring more to R&D to get to the initial maps you are referring to I suppose, but you could be correct.

Just seems in the PC world that a lot of times you only have one or two die designs/maps for a CPU or GPU and then they pump them out and bin them and enable or disable this or that to get a plethora of models. Actually remember early AMD processors you could jump circuits on the packaging to get new features only intended for higher models if you got a lower model chip. It seems I have read different overall maps if you will were only developed for quite a bit different die sizes where you might be able to fit a good bit more dies on a waffer? That sound normal? I don't know and it's possible 4460 is enough extra circuits to justify another die based on this thinking for all I know.
First, complexity. These beasties are SoC packages - system on (a) chip.

Compared to the PC world, that's taking a number of chips, glue logic, motherboard piece(s) - and putting that all on to one - single - chip.

And the idea of jumping circuits in nanometer design - not something I'd like to expect. On-chip wiring today vs a decade ago is like comparing angel hair to a oak trunk. (I exaggerate, but only slightly. We started calling the thick to thin oxide wiring comparisons "bamboo" and that was years ago.)

It's not about number of transistors.

It's about cookie cutting.

If you want a higher yield per wafer, you have 4 choices:

  • shink the dice, shrink the chips by going from 65 nm manufacturing process to 45 nm to 32 to 28 to 17 to ... the limits of our machinery technology
  • increase the wafer size
  • increase your manufacturing quality to have less loss during production
  • combination of above
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Old October 20th, 2011, 03:01 PM   #13757 (permalink)
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Not too well. I went from an advocate to an adversary. IMO, Motorola are deceptive twits and screwing consumers over if a 4430.
You're just now learning of Motorola's evil intentions?
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Old October 20th, 2011, 03:03 PM   #13758 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by rushmore View Post
Not too well. I went from an advocate to an adversary. IMO, Motorola are deceptive twits and screwing consumers over if a 4430.
This is a statement about a company that is recycling a name and slapping Droid in front of it rather than use any creativity and give it a good name. (Not that HTC is doing any better with the name Rezound) but still.
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Old October 20th, 2011, 03:03 PM   #13759 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by VoidedSaint View Post
i dont know why i bother even reading these comments, no real useful information about the device, only speculations of rumors where its going..... i agree with OTD its real easy to start rumors, funny thing is though, as i post this 6 more posts will appear before me once i hit Post Quick Reply



haha i was right! 6!!
That's one of the main reasons I stay away from this thread, I have but 10 posts in this thread (maybe)........plus, too many posts to read to keep up with this Monster Thread........Darn you Steven for starting this.......lol
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Old October 20th, 2011, 03:03 PM   #13760 (permalink)
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Happy Steven = happy androidforums!
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Originally Posted by EarlyMon View Post
As predicted.

Welcome back!

Welp, I sent a long list of ideas for our next chat party off to Rob and Phases. Phases said they were good and he liked them.. Our next part is going to be even BETTER!!

Can anyone say "YaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaY!!!!!!!??? ???????"
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Old October 20th, 2011, 03:04 PM   #13761 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by EarlyMon View Post
Obsolete? Ok...

And where are you getting USELESS from?

You honestly believe that anyone would be so stupid as to not build their revision to support the actual hardware existing on the phone?

I'm going to disagree.

If you find that onscreen buttons obsolesces capacitive button for user-friendliness or something - sure, ok, that's an opinion and those are never wrong by definition.

But - onscreen buttons when not needed with capacitive buttons already there? I don't see that happening.
I'm not worried about the buttons becoming obsolete, because surely the software can recognize whether or not the phone has physical buttons. What I think is more of a point is that Google/Sammy stated 720p was the default resolution for 4.0. I don't know what effect rescaling the UI for older (read: RAZR)/other phones will have in terms of performance.
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Old October 20th, 2011, 03:04 PM   #13762 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by EarlyMon View Post
And the idea of jumping circuits in nanometer design - not something I'd like to expect. On-chip wiring today vs a decade ago is like comparing angel hair to a oak trunk. (I exaggerate, but only slightly. We started calling the thick to thin oxide wiring comparisons "bamboo" and that was years ago.)
Weren't you telling us about FPGA's before? And hell, couldn't a simple microcode update change a chip from one type to another? I think that's what Intel's doing w/their latest adventures with customer unlockable/upgradeable CPUs.

Edit: Oops, ARM doesn't use microcode.
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Old October 20th, 2011, 03:05 PM   #13763 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by dmiller2007 View Post
You're just now learning of Motorola's evil intentions?

Pay back will be after the glowing reviews when users have used the device for a few weeks. I expect heat related and battery life issues. Seems no way around it. People should hold off until then to see.
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Old October 20th, 2011, 03:06 PM   #13764 (permalink)
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Welp, I sent a long list of ideas for our next chat party off to Rob and Phases. Phases said they were good and he liked them.. Our next part is going to be even BETTER!!

Can anyone say "YaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaY!!!!!!!??? ???????"
ANOTHER ONE???

Heck, Steven, I couldn't keep up with the last one! You guys have fun, we'll be right here
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Old October 20th, 2011, 03:06 PM   #13765 (permalink)
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For those concerned about the uselessness of their current buttons:

Quote:
Controls for system UI visibility

Since the early days of Android, the system has managed a UI component known as the status bar, which resides at the top of handset devices to deliver information such as the carrier signal, time, notifications, and so on. Android 3.0 added the system bar for tablet devices, which resides at the bottom of the screen to provide system navigation controls (Home, Back, and so forth) and also an interface for elements traditionally provided by the status bar. In Android 4.0, the system provides a new type of system UI called the navigation bar. You might consider the navigation bar a re-tuned version of the system bar designed for handsets—it provides navigation controls for devices that don’t have hardware counterparts for navigating the system, but it leaves out the system bar's notification UI and setting controls. As such, a device that provides the navigation bar also has the status bar at the top.

To this day, you can hide the status bar on handsets using the FLAG_FULLSCREEN flag. In Android 4.0, the APIs that control the system bar’s visibility have been updated to better reflect the behavior of both the system bar and navigation bar:

The SYSTEM_UI_FLAG_LOW_PROFILE flag replaces the STATUS_BAR_HIDDEN flag. When set, this flag enables “low profile" mode for the system bar or navigation bar. Navigation buttons dim and other elements in the system bar also hide. Enabling this is useful for creating more immersive games without distraction for the system navigation buttons.
The SYSTEM_UI_FLAG_VISIBLE flag replaces the STATUS_BAR_VISIBLE flag to request the system bar or navigation bar be visible.
The SYSTEM_UI_FLAG_HIDE_NAVIGATION is a new flag that requests the navigation bar hide completely. Be aware that this works only for the navigation bar used by some handsets (it does not hide the system bar on tablets). The navigation bar returns to view as soon as the system receives user input. As such, this mode is useful primarily for video playback or other cases in which the whole screen is needed but user input is not required.
You can set each of these flags for the system bar and navigation bar by calling setSystemUiVisibility() on any view in your activity. The window manager combines (OR-together) all flags from all views in your window and apply them to the system UI as long as your window has input focus. When your window loses input focus (the user navigates away from your app, or a dialog appears), your flags cease to have effect. Similarly, if you remove those views from the view hierarchy their flags no longer apply.
The new APIs allow for you to hide the navigation bar completely (I believe these were present in honeycomb too EDIT: jk you can't hide it on tablets).

It shouldn't be too hard to write an application (perhaps locked into the System) that continuously hides the virtual buttons (navigation bar).

Also, the menu button will still act like a menu button. Newer apps should use "ActionBar", which will be accessible by the menu button (I believe...)
Quote:
Options menu button

Beginning with Android 4.0, you'll notice that handsets no longer require a Menu hardware button. However, there's no need for you to worry about this if your existing application provides an options menu and expects there to be a Menu button. To ensure that existing apps continue to work as they expect, the system provides an on-screen Menu button for apps that were designed for older versions of Android.

For the best user experience, new and updated apps should instead use the ActionBar to provide access to menu items and set targetSdkVersion to "14" to take advantage of the latest framework default behaviors.
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Old October 20th, 2011, 03:08 PM   #13766 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by rushmore View Post
Pay back will be after the glowing reviews when users have used the device for a few weeks. I expect heat related and battery life issues. Seems no way around it. People should hold off until then to see.
Probably. Is 1.2 overclocked or just as fast as it comes stable? I'm not as up to date on the processors. I skipped those (dozens of) pages
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Old October 20th, 2011, 03:09 PM   #13767 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by dmiller2007 View Post
Didn't the event go pretty smoothly in honk Kong without mentioning a carrier? If a carrier was the issue, don't you think they could have just changed the script at CTIA to not include the mention of a carrier?

The whole presentation would have to be reworked. Those things are rehearsed and changes have a ripple effect whether large or small.

They just dont go on stage and wing it
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Old October 20th, 2011, 03:09 PM   #13768 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Travillion View Post
I'm not worried about the buttons becoming obsolete, because surely the software can recognize whether or not the phone has physical buttons. What I think is more of a point is that Google/Sammy stated 720p was the default resolution for 4.0. I don't know what effect rescaling the UI for older (read: RAZR)/other phones will have in terms of performance.
Page subject to change as things update, so for now, please see -

Android Developers Blog

Answer: not so much of a problem.
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Old October 20th, 2011, 03:11 PM   #13769 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by BlueBiker View Post
Weren't you telling us about FPGA's before? And hell, couldn't a simple microcode update change a chip from one type to another? I think that's what Intel's doing w/their latest adventures with customer unlockable/upgradeable CPUs.
I very much suspect that microcode isn't the issue in this case.
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Old October 20th, 2011, 03:11 PM   #13770 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stretlow View Post
Does anyone know how the 1.5 processor in the vigor (rezound) stacks up against the 4460.

Dont think ive read it anywhere

Stret
I don't think it stacks up at all.
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Old October 20th, 2011, 03:13 PM   #13771 (permalink)
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Side note - I refreshed twice and no new posts - is everyone feeling ok?



Now back to the nuttiness........
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Old October 20th, 2011, 03:14 PM   #13772 (permalink)
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This is a statement about a company that is recycling a name and slapping Droid in front of it rather than use any creativity and give it a good name. (Not that HTC is doing any better with the name Rezound) but still.
I'm totally not getting where the Moto hate is coming from. The Honda Civic is now on its 9th generation, but I don't see anybody complaining that they've been re-using the same name for the last 28yrs.

Do you seriously think the RAZR isn't a large improvement over Bionic?
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Old October 20th, 2011, 03:15 PM   #13773 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by cereal killer View Post

They just dont go on stage and wing it
You didn't see the Razr event did you? They sure seemed to wing that one
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Old October 20th, 2011, 03:16 PM   #13774 (permalink)
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Anyone interested?


SAMSUNG GALAXY NEXUS | WORLDWIDE SHIPPING | BRAND NEW, SEALED | eBay
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Old October 20th, 2011, 03:18 PM   #13775 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by dmiller2007 View Post
Probably. Is 1.2 overclocked or just as fast as it comes stable? I'm not as up to date on the processors. I skipped those (dozens of) pages

Same thing really. The point is the chip has to work harder to get to the same speed as the 4460. Result is more heat and power consumption..... In a 7.1mm body and fixed battery. This chip decision could bite Moto on the a$$.
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Old October 20th, 2011, 03:19 PM   #13776 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Slow Eddie View Post
Didn't the guy on Google+ from Chicago that got a hands on preview from a friend say that the phone was running on Verizon's network? Why would this be so if the phone was not coming to Verizon?
He also said that the bezel was capacitive and controlled the visibility of the on-screen buttons. But I digress.

The question is NOT whether or not this phone is compatible with Verizon. It's not a question of whether or not Verizon was involved with the manufacture and testing of the device. There's plenty of evidence of that(the Galnex pictured with the Verizon 4G LTE logo, the "Verizon Wireless" text on the notification pull-down in the Samsung video, etc.).

The real questions are these: Is Verizon going to follow through with it? Is there a quality issue that's in Samsung's hands? Is Verizon sand-bagging the release temporarily to improve RAZR sales? We KNOW that the phones were running on Verizon, that doesn't mean Verizon won't scrap this at the last minute.
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Old October 20th, 2011, 03:19 PM   #13777 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by BlueBiker View Post
I'm totally not getting where the Moto hate is coming from. The Honda Civic is now on its 9th generation, but I don't see anybody complaining that they've been re-using the same name for the last 28yrs.

Do you seriously think the RAZR isn't a large improvement over Bionic?
Blue, that quote notwithstanding I'm not sure that most of us feel that way. There's no reason to regurgitate the specs, but the RAZR and I think most agree, is an awesome phone. If the bootloader was unlocked, I'd be giving it serious consideration. Because it isn't, I'm not, but if Verizon drops the ball with the Nexus I may just relent and go that direction. I loved my OG, but again it was unlocked...
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Old October 20th, 2011, 03:19 PM   #13778 (permalink)
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I don't think it stacks up at all.
In what way? i honestly only know about the omap from this forum. I have a Desire and its honestly been the best phone ive ever had so im noticing the new HTC.

On the other hand I want something different but something is going to have to do well to pull me away from the Nexus
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Old October 20th, 2011, 03:19 PM   #13779 (permalink)
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I'm totally not getting where the Moto hate is coming from. The Honda Civic is now on its 9th generation, but I don't see anybody complaining that they've been re-using the same name for the last 28yrs.

Do you seriously think the RAZR isn't a large improvement over Bionic?
I have had nothing but issues with their phones in the past. Its purely my feelings on it (and some friends and family members happen to agree).
I would hope the RAZR is an improvement over the Bionic since it's their newest delivery but I would rather limp along on a phone that is dying than use Blur.
Again - all personal.
If you've used Motorola and loved it and had no issues then more power to you.
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Old October 20th, 2011, 03:21 PM   #13780 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by BlueBiker View Post
I'm totally not getting where the Moto hate is coming from. The Honda Civic is now on its 9th generation, but I don't see anybody complaining that they've been re-using the same name for the last 28yrs.

Do you seriously think the RAZR isn't a large improvement over Bionic?

My Droid 3 rocks, but has a 4430 and based on the heat at 1ghz, I would never overclock it. Seems Moto may have used a "check into cash" approach with this cost decision.
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Old October 20th, 2011, 03:22 PM   #13781 (permalink)
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Does anyone know how the 1.5 processor in the vigor (rezound) stacks up against the 4460.

Dont think ive read it anywhere

Stret
I don't think it stacks up at all.
I haven't been able to find anything that declares what type of processor they're using in the Vigor. I know it's supposed to be 1.5 GHz, but I haven't seen who makes the chip.

Plus, a couple of weeks ago, a lot of folks would have sworn that the Galnexy would be using a 1.5 GHz chip.
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Old October 20th, 2011, 03:27 PM   #13782 (permalink)
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The whole presentation would have to be reworked. Those things are rehearsed and changes have a ripple effect whether large or small.

They just dont go on stage and wing it
The whole presentation wouldn't have to be rewritten; are you kidding me? If it was Verizon-centric, of course. But from the outset in the CTIA invites, it was always going to be about Samsung and Google, that's it. They didn't announce U.S. carriers for the Note event in Berlin, but AT&T is definitely getting it, and who knows who else. Samsung's Unpacked Events are about the product only, not about carriers.

Also, they said it was coming to the U.S. Who else do you see getting an LTE device from Google?

I know you refer to those who think it's coming to Verizon as "wishful thinkers", but I honestly feel that it takes more effort to conjure up these terrible thoughts of Verizon not getting it, than it takes to simply see with your eyes and know that Verizon's name has been all over this thing since Day 1 all the way up to the day it was announced.
 
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Old October 20th, 2011, 03:29 PM   #13783 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by BlueBiker View Post
I'm totally not getting where the Moto hate is coming from. The Honda Civic is now on its 9th generation, but I don't see anybody complaining that they've been re-using the same name for the last 28yrs.

Do you seriously think the RAZR isn't a large improvement over Bionic?
Me likes the RAZR. I think it's a huge improvement over the Bionic. Matter of fact I MAY just buy it if the Nexus falls through. I said may though...the bootloader is tearing my heart out. If the bootloader were unlocked I'd purchase it over the Nexus in a heartbeat.

Damn, why can't somebody make the perfect device. It's really not that hard is it?
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Old October 20th, 2011, 03:34 PM   #13784 (permalink)
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The whole presentation wouldn't have to be rewritten; are you kidding me? If it was Verizon-centric, of course. But from the outset in the CTIA invites, it was always going to be about Samsung and Google, that's it. They didn't announce U.S. carriers for the Note event in Berlin, but AT&T is definitely getting it, and who knows who else. Samsung's Unpacked Events are about the product only, not about carriers.

Also, they said it was coming to the U.S. Who else do you see getting an LTE device from Google?

I know you refer to those who think it's coming to Verizon as "wishful thinkers", but I honestly feel that it takes more effort to conjure up these terrible thoughts of Verizon not getting it, than it takes to simply see with your eyes and know that Verizon's name has been all over this thing since Day 1 all the way up to the day it was announced.
You are right that Verizon has been involved from day 1, but VZW was SUPPOSED to get the SGII as well. I personally doubt that it will fall through with Verizon, but there is certainly room to speculate at this point, especially given that we know there is tension among the Verizon folks and Google/Samsung. I am with you though, I truly believe that Verizon will carry the Galaxy Nexus exclusively for a period of time, and it will be a pure Google ICS on board. I also believe that it's the last time we ever get a pure unlocked Google phone on Big Red. They won't be fooled again. Cue The Who
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Old October 20th, 2011, 03:35 PM   #13785 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by BlueBiker View Post
I'm totally not getting where the Moto hate is coming from. The Honda Civic is now on its 9th generation, but I don't see anybody complaining that they've been re-using the same name for the last 28yrs.

Do you seriously think the RAZR isn't a large improvement over Bionic?
Honda also didn't stop making the civic, wait a few years, and redesign an accord and label that a civic.

Sure this razr is a major improvement over the bionic. The bionic is unsellable. Hahaha. But making a tweeked up X and calling it the razr to seem semi-retro? Im not hating, its just as dumb as every other marketing ploy.
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Old October 20th, 2011, 03:35 PM   #13786 (permalink)
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In what way? i honestly only know about the omap from this forum. I have a Desire and its honestly been the best phone ive ever had so im noticing the new HTC.

On the other hand I want something different but something is going to have to do well to pull me away from the Nexus
Dual snapdragon S3 (Evo3D, Sensation) has been consistently beaten by Exynos in SGSII in many benchmarks. It's like 2300 vs 3300 in Quadrant for example. GPU benchmarks are similar story. Even at 1.5Ghz, it can't come close to 1.2Ghz Exynos or OMAP4.
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Old October 20th, 2011, 03:36 PM   #13787 (permalink)
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You are right that Verizon has been involved from day 1, but VZW was SUPPOSED to get the SGII as well. I personally doubt that it will fall through with Verizon, but there is certainly room to speculate at this point, especially given that we know there is tension among the Verizon folks and Google/Samsung. I am with you though, I truly believe that Verizon will carry the Galaxy Nexus exclusively for a period of time, and it will be a pure Google ICS on board. I also believe that it's the last time we ever get a pure unlocked Google phone on Big Red. They won't be fooled again. Cue The Who
That was my thought as well. At this point I think they know there are too many people anxiously awaiting the announcement. They are going to give this one shot - and if it doesn't sell astronomically well they will be able to say 'we tried' but it didn't go well so we don't think we'll do it again.
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Old October 20th, 2011, 03:38 PM   #13788 (permalink)
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I have had nothing but issues with their phones in the past. Its purely my feelings on it (and some friends and family members happen to agree).
I would hope the RAZR is an improvement over the Bionic since it's their newest delivery but I would rather limp along on a phone that is dying than use Blur.
Again - all personal.
If you've used Motorola and loved it and had no issues then more power to you.
Okay, I can understand that. If you've had a rotten experience w/them, and especially if you don't like Blur (um, does anybody?) then I could see heading in a different direction.

I just still love my OG after all this time, and would probably load another launcher on any non-ICS phone. BUT... non-replaceable battery is a deal-breaker for me, so no RAZR in my future.
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Old October 20th, 2011, 03:42 PM   #13789 (permalink)
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You are right that Verizon has been involved from day 1, but VZW was SUPPOSED to get the SGII as well.. . . .
I just think we all need to take a step back and relax, and a have look at the entire big picture. Verizon was rumored to be getting the SGSII, but that rumor was never substantiated by anyone official. Samsung never said it, Verizon never said it. There was wild rumors out there, and one "industry insider" who said it was coming first to Verizon on August 12, and has since lost all credibility and has been branded as an idiot for the rest of his leak career. Even CK (who I know I am hard on sometimes, but I think he knows I like him, but not in that way) was duped into believing SGSII was coming, but not from anyone who actually said it was coming; it was based purely on specs and he assumed it was that.

We never saw it even get bluetooth certification or wifi. Nothing.

This is a completely different animal. BMX played with the thing on Verizon LTE. It's gotten bluetooth and wireless certification. Steven's Love Tunnel, who has been confirmed to work for Verizon by the staff here on AF, has seen the device. Yes, it was back in July, but as recently as a yesterday (or the day before, don't remember), he assured Steven it was coming. Samsung has confirmed it's coming to Verizon (on their web page, on their promos in the unveiling, on facebook). Verizon has confirmed it (Verizon employees, Cellebrite systems). The list goes on and on.

Anyone who says that it's a 50/50 shot it's coming to Verizon or not, they're not looking at the big picture. All they're seeing is one windsock's opinion that is being repeated ad nauseum throughout the internet, and taking it as fact, when all the evidence is stacked against it. It's bordering on being pessimistic just for the sake of being pessimistic.

I can't tell anyone how to feel. We all have the right to think what we want. But this forum is so freaking emotional, and it goes up and down like the tides, that I hate to see it get dragged down to the bottom from repeated negative comments.

But, let them continue. I just wanted my point of view out there. And yes, it's only my opinion. It's as valid or non-valid as anyone else's. I just advocate the taking a step back and looking at the big picture approach.
 
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Old October 20th, 2011, 03:42 PM   #13790 (permalink)
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Point is the Razr will have to consume more power and produce more heat than would have with a 4460.

Are we sure the Nexus has no sd slot? Yeah, I know.
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Old October 20th, 2011, 03:43 PM   #13791 (permalink)
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First, complexity. These beasties are SoC packages - system on (a) chip.

Compared to the PC world, that's taking a number of chips, glue logic, motherboard piece(s) - and putting that all on to one - single - chip.

And the idea of jumping circuits in nanometer design - not something I'd like to expect. On-chip wiring today vs a decade ago is like comparing angel hair to a oak trunk. (I exaggerate, but only slightly. We started calling the thick to thin oxide wiring comparisons "bamboo" and that was years ago.)

It's not about number of transistors.

It's about cookie cutting.

If you want a higher yield per wafer, you have 4 choices:

  • shink the dice, shrink the chips by going from 65 nm manufacturing process to 45 nm to 32 to 28 to 17 to ... the limits of our machinery technology
  • increase the wafer size
  • increase your manufacturing quality to have less loss during production
  • combination of above
I wasn't referring to onchip jumping so much as jumping fuses built into the packaging of the chip. I would guess stuff like this is done now with some sorta post packaged chip validation testing?? Pretty sure the fuses on these old AMD chips were blown by a laser if it could only pass as a lower model or they needed more volume on the lower model. As margins improved you could just reconnect the fuses and the chip thought it was a higher model. My impression is that newer chips do stuff like this with some sorta internal settings the validation testing equipment can set.

Basically it just seems that there aren't many difference with 4460 and 4430 from what I have read to design two totally independent chips. It seems you would want them too be the same so you can adjust volume of each on the fly during packaging to allow for dynamic adjustments too demand for each. ATI and nVidia will have one die for GPU's that ship with all variety of features and cores enabled and disabled. Some of this is margin based so they can just sell a chip with a few things defective as a lower model, but it also seems to partially be a convenience thing for having a few price points off the same design.
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Old October 20th, 2011, 03:44 PM   #13792 (permalink)
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I also believe that it's the last time we ever get a pure unlocked Google phone on Big Red. They won't be fooled again. Cue The Who
Verizon wouldn't push Nexus for sure. It's up to us to do its marketing by words and show verizon it's worth of getting next version.
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Old October 20th, 2011, 03:44 PM   #13793 (permalink)
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Point is the Razr will have to consume more power and produce more heat than would have with a 4460.

Are we sure the Nexus has no sd slot? Yeah, I know.

Maybe that's why it's got an aluminum/Kevlar backing, so that your hands don't burn off.
 
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Old October 20th, 2011, 03:45 PM   #13794 (permalink)
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Dual snapdragon S3 (Evo3D, Sensation) has been consistently beaten by Exynos in SGSII in many benchmarks. It's like 2300 vs 3300 in Quadrant for example. GPU benchmarks are similar story. Even at 1.5Ghz, it can't come close to 1.2Ghz Exynos or OMAP4.
Looks like there's nothing there to tempt me away then, thanks
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Old October 20th, 2011, 03:45 PM   #13795 (permalink)
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The whole presentation wouldn't have to be rewritten; are you kidding me? If it was Verizon-centric, of course. But from the outset in the CTIA invites, it was always going to be about Samsung and Google, that's it. They didn't announce U.S. carriers for the Note event in Berlin, but AT&T is definitely getting it, and who knows who else. Samsung's Unpacked Events are about the product only, not about carriers.

Also, they said it was coming to the U.S. Who else do you see getting an LTE device from Google?

I know you refer to those who think it's coming to Verizon as "wishful thinkers", but I honestly feel that it takes more effort to conjure up these terrible thoughts of Verizon not getting it, than it takes to simply see with your eyes and know that Verizon's name has been all over this thing since Day 1 all the way up to the day it was announced.
+1 to that!! It sounded like u were hammering a perp on the stand. If I ever need a good lawyer in the Chi I'm gonna look u up.
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Old October 20th, 2011, 03:47 PM   #13796 (permalink)
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Honda also didn't stop making the civic, wait a few years, and redesign an accord and label that a civic.

Sure this razr is a major improvement over the bionic. The bionic is unsellable. Hahaha. But making a tweeked up X and calling it the razr to seem semi-retro? Im not hating, its just as dumb as every other marketing ploy.
For a long time the Mustang was built on the same platform as the lowly Fairmont and boaty Lincoln Continental(!), but it ended up as the best pony car of its day.
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by saying shipping on nov 16-17, maybe they know something we dont???

edit: and just noticed its the gsm model, hmmmmmmmmmm...............
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Anyone who says that it's a 50/50 shot it's coming to Verizon or not, they're not looking at the big picture. All they're seeing is one windsock's opinion that is being repeated ad nauseum throughout the internet, and taking it as fact, when all the evidence is stacked against it. It's bordering on being pessimistic just for the sake of being pessimistic.

I can't tell anyone how to feel. We all have the right to think what we want. But this forum is so freaking emotional, and it goes up and down like the tides, that I hate to see it get dragged down to the bottom from repeated negative comments.
I don't disagree with you in the least Han. As a matter of fact, I am quite sure that if someone were so inclined to search all of my posts, which have been almost exclusively in this thread I believe, they would see my sentiments have mirrored yours on this subject.

(DISCLAIMER!!!! Please nobody waste your valuable time doing that, lol)

However, I can understand why the other posters in here feel uneasy, if you will, due to the tensions that we know about, and the lack of an official word by Verizon.

I will also say this, if Verizon DID screw this up, which there is a .00000000000000001% chance of in my mind, I will leave them for whatever carrier has the best deal on this phone. My $.02 worth.
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Old October 20th, 2011, 03:51 PM   #13799 (permalink)
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by saying shipping on nov 16-17, maybe they know something we dont???

edit: and just noticed its the gsm model, hmmmmmmmmmm...............
I noticed that as well, but look at the location it is shipping from.... What's that about?
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Old October 20th, 2011, 03:52 PM   #13800 (permalink)
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Dual snapdragon S3 (Evo3D, Sensation) has been consistently beaten by Exynos in SGSII in many benchmarks. It's like 2300 vs 3300 in Quadrant for example. GPU benchmarks are similar story. Even at 1.5Ghz, it can't come close to 1.2Ghz Exynos or OMAP4.
Sigh. At 1.5 GHz, my S3 is just a wink above the SGS2 @ 1.2 in CF-Bench for CPU benchmark (comprehensive math in native and Java modes). Nenamark 2, ~36 fps vs. 45 on SGS2, so that part is true.

It's about the overall phone - it's not about benchmarks.

And it's never about Quadrant. I have a screen shot of my S3 at 1.2 GHz hitting just over 2400 and I did _nothing_ special. When I overclocked and trimmed fat and the whole phone started screaming faster, guess what my new Quadrant score was?

700

Quadrant == not good for assessing dual core phones at all.

I know I said I'd stop with the benchmarks, but seriously...

It's about the overall phone - it's not about benchmarks.

And how is the Nexus just overall not the best thing out there right now?

Bob Dylan said it best - Don't need a weatherman to know which way the wind blows!
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